1190: "Time"

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby CasCat » Sun Jul 21, 2013 5:35 pm UTC

Rule110 wrote:
moody7277 wrote:
pelrigg wrote:Edit 2:
It's been said one reason for The 40 being missed was because they're such a small nomadic tribe. Maybe their tents blend into the surroundings because the material is dusty, or just because they didn't color the original hides.


Guess it's just my cynical mind, but I thought it was that, when the Beanies asked the people in the hills about anyone else around, they "forgot" to mention Cuegan's tribe due to the hill people's antagonism.


My even more cynical mind suggests the possibility that the other 38 don't like Megan and Cueball. Maybe after telling them, "Go down to the beach and build salt castles for a while," they packed up and left. :twisted:

Edit: Good plan to stay on the route they know for descending the shelf. Not every ridge would offer a passable way down.


You're not the only one. Back on page 1152 I wrote "They might even have told the Hill People, but the Hill People don't like the Shore People (The Forty) and so spitefully didn't tell the Beanies about the Shore People and didn't tell the Shore People about the coming catastrophe..."

(I'm not surprised you missed this; posts were coming fast and furious at that point.)

<edit to add> Ooh, pope! Um come up with possible ways their plan will run into problems, and solutions for those problems.
Last edited by CasCat on Sun Jul 21, 2013 5:36 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Tatiana » Sun Jul 21, 2013 5:36 pm UTC

hunjoh wrote:Here is a video of an open pit mine that was just a little too close to the sea...



That's pretty amazing, hunjoh! And then we can multiply by a large factor. Run fast, Cuegan!
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Ximenez » Sun Jul 21, 2013 5:37 pm UTC

hunjoh wrote:Here is a video of an open pit mine that was just a little too close to the sea...


It looks exactly like my bathtub. :wink:

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby CasCat » Sun Jul 21, 2013 5:39 pm UTC

To fulfill my own pope decree...

What if the Hill People *haven't* been evacuated? Should Cuegan evade them or try to warn them? I vote for "evade" on the way down (time is of the essence and they can't afford to be thrown into a stockade or something) and "warn" on the way back, with 38 people (some of which will be young and healthy) as backup.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Rule110 » Sun Jul 21, 2013 5:42 pm UTC

HES wrote:
Rule110 wrote:Edit: Good plan to stay on the route they know for descending the shelf. Not every ridge would offer a passable way down.

Depends what information the map gives

True. If the map shows a delineated route that's easier or shorter ("Here be cart road"), then sure, go for it. Otherwise, with life and limb on the line (and no technical gear or skill), I wouldn't trust a descent that just looked easier on a map, even if it were a USGS contour map. The time to gamble on cutting corners (literally) is once they're down in the foothills, past the steep slope south of the hut.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby svenman » Sun Jul 21, 2013 5:42 pm UTC

CasCat wrote:To fulfill my own pope decree...

What if the Hill People *haven't* been evacuated? Should Cuegan evade them or try to warn them? I vote for "evade" on the way down (time is of the essence and they can't afford to be thrown into a stockade or something) and "warn" on the way back, with 38 people (some of which will be young and healthy) as backup.


Cuegan might warn the hill people, but would they believe them? Also, can they even communicate with each other? The dislike may be rooted in language issues.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby pelrigg » Sun Jul 21, 2013 5:43 pm UTC

Something else to throw into the mix here.
Since Megball's old enough to know The 40's traditional wanderings (assuming The 40 are seasonal nomads, as opposed to the "be out of town by sunset" type); Megball might be able to figure out where the rest of their tribe would head to in an emergency. In other words, they (Megball) would have an idea that the Elders of the tribe would be more likely to go (say) North-easterly rather than South-westerly under the circumstances. (The Elders might know of an old goat path that detour's the Hill People's camp. With our two adventurers being old enough to have heard those stories enough times and remember them at the critical time.)

@ moody7277: The Hill Folks "forgetting" to mention The 40 would also fit, wouldn't it.

EDIT: Fixed "wonderings" to "wanderings"
Last edited by pelrigg on Sun Jul 21, 2013 5:54 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby NetWeasel » Sun Jul 21, 2013 5:52 pm UTC

CasCat wrote:Ooh, pope! Um come up with possible ways their plan will run into problems, and solutions for those problems.

You know that no one's going to believe them, don't you?

Consider: "Quick! in a week the ocean next to you is going to be a mile deeper than it is now! Flee! Flee for your lives!"
Response: "WHAT have you been smoking, and did you bring enough for the rest of the class?"

Seriously... without the OTC & OTT, how many here would start packing immediately?

(Solution: those better be some damn good maps...)
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby svenman » Sun Jul 21, 2013 5:56 pm UTC

NetWeasel wrote:
CasCat wrote:Ooh, pope! Um come up with possible ways their plan will run into problems, and solutions for those problems.

You know that no one's going to believe them, don't you?


For that matter, how did the Beanies get all the other people in the Mediterranean Basin to believe them? And that would cover a huge area with presumably very many different population groups, all the way to what we know as Syria, Lebanon and Israel.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby a_s_h_e_n » Sun Jul 21, 2013 5:59 pm UTC

svenman wrote:
NetWeasel wrote:
CasCat wrote:Ooh, pope! Um come up with possible ways their plan will run into problems, and solutions for those problems.

You know that no one's going to believe them, don't you?


For that matter, how did the Beanies get all the other people in the Mediterranean Basin to believe them? And that would cover a huge area with presumably very many different population groups, all the way to what we know as Syria, Lebanon and Israel.

Many of the groups would've also noticed the rising sea and would have appreciated the explanation. As for getting to the old Middle East, the Beanies have got to have a better transportation system than just walking.

ETA: and there probably were many tribes like the 40 who got left behind.
Last edited by a_s_h_e_n on Sun Jul 21, 2013 6:00 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby CasCat » Sun Jul 21, 2013 5:59 pm UTC

svenman wrote:
NetWeasel wrote:
CasCat wrote:Ooh, pope! Um come up with possible ways their plan will run into problems, and solutions for those problems.

You know that no one's going to believe them, don't you?


For that matter, how did the Beanies get all the other people in the Mediterranean Basin to believe them? And that would cover a huge area with presumably very many different population groups, all the way to what we know as Syria, Lebanon and Israel.


Maybe they didn't. They sent warnings and then evacuated themselves, but unless they're militarily very strong indeed they can't force others to evacuate. That might explain some of the fatalism I detect in Rosetta. They tried to get folks out, but how many actually left was beyond their control.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby pelrigg » Sun Jul 21, 2013 6:00 pm UTC

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby hajo » Sun Jul 21, 2013 6:02 pm UTC

pelrigg wrote:MappONG out the path
Spoiler:
Image

ETA And so the plan falls into place.

Edit 2: It's been said one reason for The 40 being missed was because they're such a small nomadic tribe.

Considering Megans action, maybe the Cueganites are not popular with the hill-people because of some earlier incidents, where some objects have disappeared :?

Also, I guess the hill-people did not hear (or believe) the news of the rising water, so Cuegan are heading for an encouter :mrgreen:

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Flado » Sun Jul 21, 2013 6:13 pm UTC

HES wrote:
Spoiler:
Flado wrote:Hey FutureFolk, I just had a terrifying idea: what if y'all decide to do an OTT meetup Outside in my back yard (read: same continent) and I, being lost in time, learn about it post factum :shock: :idea: :?:
Someone will surely think of the poor old retired Patriarch and drop him a PM in such a case, right? Guys? Right?

Of course, but only after it happens. And from that PM, you could then formalise the paradox by organising the event in the first place.

Yeah, that'd be 4, wouldn't it? I've never done such a thing, though. Heck, I've never even been to such a thing?! It'd surely end in disaster! A catastrophe seaer than the Flood! No. Let the current Patriarch do it. With a little help from the Transcendental Imaginator. I am retired. Just drop me a PM. Ante factum.
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? I've been to big conferences like DOAG, UKOUG, OOW and such, but that's not nearly the same, right?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby nerdsniped » Sun Jul 21, 2013 6:13 pm UTC

hunjoh wrote:Here is a video of an open pit mine that was just a little too close to the sea...


"Instead of ore, pit contained inrushing cataclysm. Would not mine again."
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby NetWeasel » Sun Jul 21, 2013 6:14 pm UTC

pelrigg wrote:MappONG out the path
Spoiler:
Image

And so the plan falls into place.

If they follow their original path to the "wowterfall' and then head south, that will still cut a lot off the journey.

Also, it's the best place for them (and especially us) to calculate sea level. We've still got the before shot of river level; if the sea has risen above that, we should be able to see it in the river height.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby pelrigg » Sun Jul 21, 2013 6:17 pm UTC

a_s_h_e_n wrote:
svenman wrote:
NetWeasel wrote:
CasCat wrote:Ooh, pope! Um come up with possible ways their plan will run into problems, and solutions for those problems.

You know that no one's going to believe them, don't you?


For that matter, how did the Beanies get all the other people in the Mediterranean Basin to believe them? And that would cover a huge area with presumably very many different population groups, all the way to what we know as Syria, Lebanon and Israel.

Many of the groups would've also noticed the rising sea and would have appreciated the explanation. As for getting to the old Middle East, the Beanies have got to have a better transportation system than just walking.

ETA: and there probably were many tribes like the 40 who got left behind.


My interpretation of Rosetta's comments is the breach is quite recent (an in-comic week or so) (see frame M500 or so), but the attempts to evacuate the basin are older than that. So many of the OtherOther People, especially those not by the shore, wouldn't have seen the rising waters when the Beanies first showed up.
And, yes, there are probably many of them (the OtherOthers) who, without a wall of water facing them, would have ignored the warning. Or had been missed because of the size of the groups.

ETA
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby xiphmont » Sun Jul 21, 2013 6:24 pm UTC

Hmm, it appears the Geekwagon site hasn't gotten any new frames in a day or two...

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby nerdsniped » Sun Jul 21, 2013 6:37 pm UTC

NetWeasel wrote:
CasCat wrote:Ooh, pope! Um come up with possible ways their plan will run into problems, and solutions for those problems.

You know that no one's going to believe them, don't you?

Consider: "Quick! in a week the ocean next to you is going to be a mile deeper than it is now! Flee! Flee for your lives!"
Response: "WHAT have you been smoking, and did you bring enough for the rest of the class?"

Seriously... without the OTC & OTT, how many here would start packing immediately?

(Solution: those better be some damn good maps...)

Yeah, this will probably be a big problem unless the water has already risen quite a bit. In that case people might be more primed to believe.

Possession of the maps might help, as they might serve as proof of contact with a more advanced civilization. (Hopefully not "who wasted all that paper on such silly scribblings?) Interesting that Cuegan know what maps are and don't seem to have any trouble interpreting them, despite apparently not having travelled much before.

We'll learn a lot about Cuegan's place in society when they start trying to convince everyone.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Xenocat » Sun Jul 21, 2013 6:37 pm UTC

xiphmont wrote:Hmm, it appears the Geekwagon site hasn't gotten any new frames in a day or two...


I was just wondering if anyone else had noticed that, or if it was only broken for me. It's stuck on frame 2964 (by its numbering), which is now about 8 frames out of date.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Flado » Sun Jul 21, 2013 6:51 pm UTC

HAL9000 wrote:
Flado wrote:Hey FutureFolk, I just had a terrifying idea: what if y'all decide to do an OTT meetup Outside in my back yard (read: same continent) and I, being lost in time, learn about it post factum :shock: :idea: :?:
Someone will surely think of the poor old retired Patriarch and drop him a PM in such a case, right? Guys? Right?

If we do plan a meetup, there'll have to be a separate thread for it in the "Meetups" subforum. We'd all probably throw links to it in our signatures.
EDIT: This is my thousandth post. That means my word here is law (if you were already planning to obey me, that is)! When a meetup is planned, there must be a separate thread, or else. (or else there won't be a separate thread, that is)

Thanks, that is reassuring. In light of recent events (I'm schizoblitzing), I might be present for some time, but when I inevitably fall behind again and return to my blitz, I'll be counting on you!
Wow, HAL9000! Happy millennial post! Too bad the cake is a lie :twisted: (a different PC, I know, but still)
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby NetWeasel » Sun Jul 21, 2013 7:03 pm UTC

5 Frames to first towONG!
Image

(probably)


ETA: and that's where they have their first chance to see the sea...
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Xenocat » Sun Jul 21, 2013 7:05 pm UTC

Xenocat wrote:
xiphmont wrote:Hmm, it appears the Geekwagon site hasn't gotten any new frames in a day or two...


I was just wondering if anyone else had noticed that, or if it was only broken for me. It's stuck on frame 2964 (by its numbering), which is now about 8 frames out of date.


And now it's updated, but is missing a few frames. G2964 = A2967, but G2965 = A2975.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby HES » Sun Jul 21, 2013 7:10 pm UTC

Rule110 wrote:True. If the map shows a delineated route that's easier or shorter ("Here be cart road"), then sure, go for it. Otherwise, with life and limb on the line (and no technical gear or skill), I wouldn't trust a descent that just looked easier on a map, even if it were a USGS contour map. The time to gamble on cutting corners (literally) is once they're down in the foothills, past the steep slope south of the hut.

Which by the sound if it, is their plan:
Spoiler:
Image


@Xenocat, what's that in M?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Flado » Sun Jul 21, 2013 7:21 pm UTC

mscha wrote:-- snip --
ETA: I thought we already had a meeting planned? Château d'If, some time in the year 13000-something?

The location is very good, but the timing could use a little adjustment 8-)
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Kieryn » Sun Jul 21, 2013 7:30 pm UTC

Just read some of the exiting bit of the OTT when the map was shown and the text changed and found these two apparently overlooked predictions by edo.

viewtopic.php?p=3413956#p3413956
edo wrote:Prediction:

next frame Megan: No.
Alt text: Time to go.

PS: Mscha: when did the mustardy M2466 frame get fixed?


viewtopic.php?p=3413990#p3413990
edo wrote:I call Megan steals the book and RUN.s.


Okay both of those I find way uncanny. Edo, is there something you are hiding?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby taixzo » Sun Jul 21, 2013 7:37 pm UTC

charlie_grumbles wrote:
NetWeasel wrote:But damming it up to keep the level where it is now is a much easier one. Except for trade.

Simple (?) solution: The Panama Canal. include in the dam project a series of locks so that trade routes stay open, and water levels can be carefully controlled. While building, you can also put in that underground rail system they've been wanting.

Ah, the hubris of the scientifically inclined. You are fooling with delicate ecosystems here. You have to solve the problem of salinity. Currently fresher water flows in at the surface and saltier water out at depth. If you stop the outflow you kill the sea. Do the math. You could make it work, but I think a lot of the electric power you generate is used to pump the salty water up and out over your new drop. You also, I think, need to solve the problem of marine life migrating in and out. Otherwise you start to lose parts of the ecosystem, which can lead to collapse of other parts.

I think the only reason it would be done is the same reason we continue to burn coal. It is in someone's financial interest to do so and they can ignore the real cost, passing it to others or to future generations. Even ignoring to compute/consider the future costs. Like I said, hubris. Hubris and greed, combined. Dubrovnik won't be happy if they are above water (yay) on a dead sea (boo).

Too much of "What could possibly go wrong?"


Am I misunderstanding something here? If the sea level falls, then that causes an increase in salinity due to the evaporation of the sea. But if the level remains the same, and the inflow is due to fresh water (i.e. rivers), where does the extra salt come from? Why would the salinity increase?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Xenocat » Sun Jul 21, 2013 7:42 pm UTC

HES wrote:@Xenocat, what's that in M?


The last frame that Geekwagon has correct is G2964 = M2959. It then skips ahead to G2965 = M2967. Then G2966 and G2967 are identical to each other and = M2968. And G2968-G2973 seem to be not loading at all, instead staying on whichever frame you were viewing previously, before trying to view one of them.


Edit: Mistakenly wrote G2964 where I meant G2965
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby NetWeasel » Sun Jul 21, 2013 7:44 pm UTC

taixzo wrote:Am I misunderstanding something here? If the sea level falls, then that causes an increase in salinity due to the evaporation of the sea. But if the level remains the same, and the inflow is due to fresh water (i.e. rivers), where does the extra salt come from? Why would the salinity increase?

Under the current circumstances, less saline water comes in up top, and more saline water goes out on bottom. If you cut off the inflow/outflow or greatly reduce it, you have a net salt increase.
Which I pointed out was "a small price to pay" from the point of view of people who were about to have their land taken away by rising sea levels.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby CasCat » Sun Jul 21, 2013 7:46 pm UTC

Spoiler:
taixzo wrote:
charlie_grumbles wrote:
NetWeasel wrote:But damming it up to keep the level where it is now is a much easier one. Except for trade.

Simple (?) solution: The Panama Canal. include in the dam project a series of locks so that trade routes stay open, and water levels can be carefully controlled. While building, you can also put in that underground rail system they've been wanting.

Ah, the hubris of the scientifically inclined. You are fooling with delicate ecosystems here. You have to solve the problem of salinity. Currently fresher water flows in at the surface and saltier water out at depth. If you stop the outflow you kill the sea. Do the math. You could make it work, but I think a lot of the electric power you generate is used to pump the salty water up and out over your new drop. You also, I think, need to solve the problem of marine life migrating in and out. Otherwise you start to lose parts of the ecosystem, which can lead to collapse of other parts.

I think the only reason it would be done is the same reason we continue to burn coal. It is in someone's financial interest to do so and they can ignore the real cost, passing it to others or to future generations. Even ignoring to compute/consider the future costs. Like I said, hubris. Hubris and greed, combined. Dubrovnik won't be happy if they are above water (yay) on a dead sea (boo).

Too much of "What could possibly go wrong?"


Am I misunderstanding something here? If the sea level falls, then that causes an increase in salinity due to the evaporation of the sea. But if the level remains the same, and the inflow is due to fresh water (i.e. rivers), where does the extra salt come from? Why would the salinity increase?


I'm not entirely sure I understand either, so I hope someone jumps in to correct me, but it sounds like if the dam completely blocked the Atlantic, the Med levels would drop because the rivers aren't sufficient to keep it full. So some water has to come in via the locks in the Atlantic to maintain water level. And since it's evaporating (fresh) water faster than (fresh water) rivers can fill it, that means that salt water is being added to in constantly to make up the difference, from the Atlantic. But the reverse-hypersalt-flow isn't happening as it does now (the locks are in the way) so the Med just gets saltier and saltier and saltier.

If you're drinking a rum-and-coke and keep topping up the rum without adding any coke, pretty soon you have a very strong rum drink with hardly any coke at all....
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acunning40
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby acunning40 » Sun Jul 21, 2013 7:51 pm UTC

taixzo wrote:Am I misunderstanding something here? If the sea level falls, then that causes an increase in salinity due to the evaporation of the sea. But if the level remains the same, and the inflow is due to fresh water (i.e. rivers), where does the extra salt come from? Why would the salinity increase?

The water evaporates, hence only water is leaving while its salt remains. The overall salinity would stay constant if you added freshwater. But since the replacement water is from the ocean, salt keeps getting added to the Mediterranean (along with the water) while only water is exiting.

In the current system the sea is more saline than the Atlantic, but it's in a steady state because saltier water leaves through Gibraltar.

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NetWeasel
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby NetWeasel » Sun Jul 21, 2013 7:51 pm UTC

CasCat wrote:I'm not entirely sure I understand either, so I hope someone jumps in to correct me, but it sounds like if the dam completely blocked the Atlantic, the Med levels would drop because the rivers aren't sufficient to keep it full. So some water has to come in via the locks in the Atlantic to maintain water level. And since it's evaporating (fresh) water faster than (fresh water) rivers can fill it, that means that salt water is being added to in constantly to make up the difference, from the Atlantic. But the reverse-hypersalt-flow isn't happening as it does now (the locks are in the way) so the Med just gets saltier and saltier and saltier.

If you're drinking a rum-and-coke and keep topping up the rum without adding any coke, pretty soon you have a very strong rum drink with hardly any coke at all....

That's pretty much it -- LOVE the rum-and-coke analogy! To take it one step further... If you keep adding ice to your burbon and water, you'll soon be out of burbon, but your glass will still be full.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby hunjoh » Sun Jul 21, 2013 7:58 pm UTC

CasCat wrote:
Am I misunderstanding something here? If the sea level falls, then that causes an increase in salinity due to the evaporation of the sea. But if the level remains the same, and the inflow is due to fresh water (i.e. rivers), where does the extra salt come from? Why would the salinity increase?


Actually, the rivers contain salt, just not enough that we notice. But over time if the water keeps getting evaporated away the salt gets left behind...

Which is why irrigating desert land is usually a short-term solution. Without rain water to flush the soil there is eventually salt buildup in the soil and the crops will no longer grow.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby a_s_h_e_n » Sun Jul 21, 2013 8:01 pm UTC

A rock ONG

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Tock: Look, son, it's bad enough wasting time without killing it.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Eliram » Sun Jul 21, 2013 8:06 pm UTC

Tatiana wrote:
hunjoh wrote:Here is a video of an open pit mine that was just a little too close to the sea...



That's pretty amazing, hunjoh! And then we can multiply by a large factor. Run fast, Cuegan!

Amazing video. You can multiply the scale of waterflow by 100, but considering that flying from one side of this sea to another takes 5 hours, the sea level will probably simply just rise at their location.
It's about time.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Ximenez » Sun Jul 21, 2013 8:09 pm UTC

They are at the same spot they were in frame 2617. That was the first background we saw after they left the first tower.

The background we see now extends a few qs more to the left. But that new segment doesn't look like the background where the tower was (frame 2610). So, they don't seem about to reach it just now.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby NetWeasel » Sun Jul 21, 2013 8:19 pm UTC

Ximenez wrote:They are at the same spot they were in frame 2617. That was the first background we saw after they left the first tower.

The background we see now extends a few qs more to the left. But that new segment doesn't look like the background where the tower was (frame 2610). So, they don't seem about to reach it just now.

On the way out, the only thing between the tower and that rock was the cutaway to the floating bucket, so...

we actually have no idea how close they are. Could be next newpic, might not be.

ETA: But there were three frames skipped between this background and the previous one...
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby hunjoh » Sun Jul 21, 2013 8:30 pm UTC

hunjoh wrote:
CasCat wrote:
Am I misunderstanding something here? If the sea level falls, then that causes an increase in salinity due to the evaporation of the sea. But if the level remains the same, and the inflow is due to fresh water (i.e. rivers), where does the extra salt come from? Why would the salinity increase?


Actually, the rivers contain salt, just not enough that we notice. But over time if the water keeps getting evaporated away the salt gets left behind...

Which is why irrigating desert land is usually a short-term solution. Without rain water to flush the soil there is eventually salt buildup in the soil and the crops will no longer grow.


The Salton Sea in southern California started off as freshwater from the Colorado River. (Although there were pre-existing salt deposits from previous cycles of filling and drying.) And this article (https://scripps.ucsd.edu/news/1929) notes "By examining displacement indicators preserved in pristine sedimentary deposits, the team reconstructed their earthquake history and found evidence for coincident timing between flooding of the ancient Salton Sea and fault rupture. Rupture on these newly discovered "stepover" faults has the potential to trigger large earthquakes on the southern San Andreas Fault." (Emphasis mine.)

Lake Urmia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Urmia) is a nice example of a land-locked lake with only freshwater inflows that is now hypersaline.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Kieryn » Sun Jul 21, 2013 8:31 pm UTC

charlie_grumbles wrote:
NetWeasel wrote:But damming it up to keep the level where it is now is a much easier one. Except for trade.

Simple (?) solution: The Panama Canal. include in the dam project a series of locks so that trade routes stay open, and water levels can be carefully controlled. While building, you can also put in that underground rail system they've been wanting.

Ah, the hubris of the scientifically inclined. You are fooling with delicate ecosystems here. You have to solve the problem of salinity. Currently fresher water flows in at the surface and saltier water out at depth. If you stop the outflow you kill the sea. Do the math. You could make it work, but I think a lot of the electric power you generate is used to pump the salty water up and out over your new drop. You also, I think, need to solve the problem of marine life migrating in and out. Otherwise you start to lose parts of the ecosystem, which can lead to collapse of other parts.

I think the only reason it would be done is the same reason we continue to burn coal. It is in someone's financial interest to do so and they can ignore the real cost, passing it to others or to future generations. Even ignoring to compute/consider the future costs. Like I said, hubris. Hubris and greed, combined. Dubrovnik won't be happy if they are above water (yay) on a dead sea (boo).

Too much of "What could possibly go wrong?"


I agree, Charlie... It would be a dumb thing to do in the long run, but we are very short sighted on the whole so in all likelihood something like this would get approved and actually happen within the next few centuries, possibly sooner. When the time comes and risk planning is done for the project, I bet the future possibility being laid out for us in the OTC is completely left out of the equation.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Chinchokmataa » Sun Jul 21, 2013 8:35 pm UTC

Back on the internets after being gone for 2 days and just speed-ketchuped through what I missed, and I have to say: OMGOMGOMG RUNRUNRUN

Okay, carry on.


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