1190: "Time"

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MajorDouble7
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby MajorDouble7 » Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:35 am UTC

I was hoping that it might still be possible to 'request' or 'claim' specific frames for colorization? Because of OutsideH workH, I've been putting together frame 3 very slowly (hope to finish it tomornip) and don't want it to get ninja'd.

ETA: Papal Page Poping? Please pleasure us with prose and pixels!
Last edited by MajorDouble7 on Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:51 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
HES wrote:That's not how these things work; Beardo will know, but before telling them he will send them on a quest for the magical sand timer of the molpy people. He'll give them a stick with +1 Thwapping and [...] once Time ends, it will restart on a higher difficulty setting.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby HES » Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:39 am UTC

MajorDouble7 wrote:I was hoping that it might still be possible to 'request' or 'claim' specific frames for colorization? Because of OutsideH workH, I've been putting together frame 3 very slowly (hope to finish it tomornip) and don't want it to get ninja'd

Duplicates are welcome, it's not like they're going to come out identical
He/Him/His Image

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My body doesn't obey me anymore

Postby AluisioASG » Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:40 am UTC

So, as I said before, it's 1AM (was, now it's 2AM), I missed my bus to home (real home, 460km away), and I'm suffering the effects of adrenaline + internal psychological humiliation.
So, while my body can't relax, I went with this OTTification:


Empty places, what are we living for?
Our heart is now breaking, can we take it anymore?
On and on, does anybody know what we are waiting for?
Another leader, another clueless guy?
Beyond the mountains, in the afterlife?
Hold it on, does anybody want to guess it once again?
Time must go on
Time must go on, yeah
If not by one creator
Maybe we can try and keep it
Above our own souls

Whatever happens, I'll take it on my own hands
Another comic, another failed project
On and on, does anybody know what we are waiting for?

I guess I'm coping (I'm coping)
Hold this or I will fall
I'll soon be coming (coming coming)
Just wait for me now
Outside the sun is fading
But please wait for me, if you can bear with me
The thread must go on
The thread must go on, yeah yeah
Ooh, inside my heart is breaking
My mind cannot take it
But my smile won't fade on

Yeah yeah, whoa wow, whoa wow

My soul is painted like the spots of raptorcats
Time may never come again, but I can see the past
And I will remember it
The thread must go on (go on, go on, go on) yeah yeah
The thread must go on (go on, go on, go on)
Alzheimer can come in
I'm never forgettin'
On, with the show!

Ooh, I can't make it, I am back in
I can't forgive myself for letting go
On with the bus
With the bus!
(I missed my bus)
(My bus, my bus, my bus, my bus, my home)
(My home, my home, my home, my home, go home)
(Go home, go home, go home, go home, go on)
(Go on, go on, go on, go on, molp'up)

(Sorry. Still too much adrenaline. I can barely type. It may also not make any sense. I should go coma but I can't.)
(Oh, citation: Queen, The Show Must Go On (Thread Must Go One?))

Rule110 wrote:My own creative thoughts have been running in a different direction recently, though. Here's a preview that might give you an idea of the project I'm contemplating.

Cool Neat! Looks like a very nice idea!
But, next time please use just one spoiler.
Gingercat wrote:Yeah, my players just decided to sit back and watch the Nukewisp frenzy itself to Annihilation-level fire energy, THEN they killed it.
Thus ended that campaign.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby k.bookbinder » Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:48 am UTC

BlitzGirl wrote:Looks good, k.bookbinder - thanks for doing that! As far as I know, the page hasn't been seriously edited since April, so you really have free rein of the place, I think. Might want to ask questions here - I'm not sure if they will be seen on the wiki. Maybe both places.


Thanks! I shall have to take another look at it, perhaps standardize the format to make it more convenient for others to add as well. I like the tables for that. Also, how does one move then entire section to the Art section, instead of the Forums Quotes section? This, I could not figure out, but I feel it would be more appropraite. I would also like to change some of the page headings. I do not think your designs are at all impractical. Perhaps they would be expensive to make, but not impractical, per say :) Perhaps breaking it up into sections such as "Original OTC Designs", "OTTification Designs", and "Original OTT Designs" might make more sense?

'Tis late, and I must coma. Keep the faith all and OTTify it.

OTTify it...
OTTify it...
OTTify it...
OTTify it...
OTTify it...

Molpy down!
Spoiler:
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"HAL9000" This thread is a goldmine for signatures.
"StratPlayer" All in all, that sand paper rubbed me the wrong way.
"charlie_grumbles" The secret of the geeks. "Copy, Borrow, Steal, Succeed"
"ucim" There's a forestful of treeish people here.

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MajorDouble7
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby MajorDouble7 » Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:55 am UTC

the_Dex wrote:Hello to all the OTTer's in the future. I'd like to introduce myself. I go by Dex,
Spoiler:
and like many here have been a long time fan of xkcd. I don't normally register for forums so I hope I don't make to many faux pas (never liked liver anyways). I have read the rules though : )

Way back on March 25th, since I read the tool tip of that day's comic, I came back to xkcd and saw that the image was different than earlier. Having been amazed at some of the stuff that GLR has pulled off in the past (cough drag cough) I "wisely" put down another bookmark and blithely went on my way.

For several months I checked it every so often in addition to my morning e-jaunts through my webcomic bookmarks, and that seemed sufficient. I could tell that I was missing images, but there never seemed to be drastic changes. Little did I know what I was actually missing.

Then things started changing rapidly. Wait, where are they walking too? When did they find that tower thingy? A cathedral!?!? But through it all I was never motivated to dig deeper. Until, believe it or not, Friday July 26th (I'm sorry, I know it still must hurt).

I don't even remember now what the image was that prompted me to break out the google, but I did. And found the Explainxkcd wiki (wonderful btw) and links to all sorts of useful things, like Time players. And I played it… and I was stunned. All this! This was going on the whole time! Every hour! After going through it a couple of times and doing a few other searches, I plopped onto one of pages of this very thread.

Oh my word, what was going on here. People speaking in tongues, technical analysis of time and place. Thankfully I was off that day (unfortunately I had a to do list that didn't). I bounced between random pages of the thread and the wiki. It was amazing. But the outside intruded and off I went, another few bookmarks richer.

So I log back in on Saturday, with my unearthed my copies of the Gandalara Cycle (from way back in the bookcase) and there it was. Game over man, game over! Like many of you I was taken aback, but maybe for a different reason. I mean, I had just found all this. I picked up my bookmark and started reading, and reading, and… oh, listening. Amazing job on the "Every Newframe's awefulsome" video YappoBiscuits. I finally caught up around pg. 1286, not counting the 1000+ previous pages I know nothing about. And I just sat there, and thought about it.

I must say I am very impressed with what you all… sorry, all y'all, have built here. To me forums are something to get in, get the information you need, and get out, preferable before you see anything too toxic. But this place appears to nuture not only whimsical fun, but some serious talent and brain power as well. I am bummed I was not able to join everyone on this journey as it unfolded.

I have started from page one and am now working my way through this thread. It's quite interesting to see how it all unfolded (I'm on pg. 66 I think). But at the rate you guys are generating new pages, it'll probably take me (lets see, thats 12, carry the 2…) oh, I don't know, like two years yips to catch up to your present. But I hope that, when I finally see that day, there will still be some OTTer's there to say hello.

And by the way, if you guys could convince GLR to produce that t-shirt with the first frame on the front and the last frame on the back… I desperately want to give him money for that! I don't remember who came up with that but it is a perfect summary of this whole experience.

To the fore, time starts
'pon the hind, time ends
and in the span between I exist.

Sorry about the newb-plosion. I guess between catching up and Outside requirements I built up a few things to say. Time to put the shoulder to the boulder for a little bit and see if I can't get it closer to the top, which seems to keep growing.

Dex

Welcome, Dex!
HES wrote:That's not how these things work; Beardo will know, but before telling them he will send them on a quest for the magical sand timer of the molpy people. He'll give them a stick with +1 Thwapping and [...] once Time ends, it will restart on a higher difficulty setting.

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Blind-Post NP1170

Postby azule » Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:28 am UTC

Exodies wrote:Being a middle child of three, I have an aversion to firsts, lasts, round numbers, "special occasions", rules, customs, traditions, habits, protocols, diplomatic work-arounds, etc. etc.
I'm not (I'm the first child and the middlish), but I agree with the aversion. :)


Odetity Time:

Awefulsome Fate based on Ke$ha's Die Young

I hear the heart beat of our tribe while we run
Oh, what a shame that they are doomed by the flood
So while we're full of alarm
Let's run for most of the night like their fate's awefulsome

Is their fate awefulsome?
Is their fate awefulsome?

Let's run for most of the night like their fate's awefulsome

Let's run for most of the night like their fate's awefulsome

Learner said, "the flood it comes
"Don't you see, you're the lucky ones"
Teacher said, "see the map?
"There's no hope for your land"
Scholar said, "going back is not in my plans, you know?
"Preventing your deaths is on my hands" (for real)

Looking for some way through the night (yeah)
Lower you down the drop of the cliff's, side
Like it's the last night of their lives (oh no)
We'll keep running 'till we die

I hear the heart beat of our tribe while we run
Oh, what a shame that they are doomed by the flood
So while we're full of alarm
Let's run for most of the night like their fate's awefulsome

Is their fate awefulsome?
Is their fate awefulsome?

Let's run for most of the night like their fate's awefulsome

Let's run for most of the night like their fate's awefulsome

Hearts, out our chest
Running 'till we save the rest
Getting there's not lookin' good
Can't stop to rest like we should
Don't care how our injuries are feeling now (oh, ouch)
That deluge that comes don't care anyhow (for sure)

Looking for some way through the night (yeah)
Lower you down the drop of the cliff's, side
Like it's the last night of their lives (oh no)
We'll keep running 'till we die

I hear the heart beat of our tribe while we run
Oh, what a shame that they are doomed by the flood
So while we're full of alarm
Let's run for most of the night like their fate's awefulsome

I hear the heart beat of our tribe while we run
Oh, what a shame that they are doomed by the flood
So while we're full of alarm
Let's run for most of the night like their fate's awefulsome

Is their fate awefulsome?
Is their fate awefulsome?

Let's run for most of the night like their fate's awefulsome
Image

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I celebrate up to six arbitrary things before breakfast.
Time does drag on and on and contain spoilers. Be aware of memes.

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Neil_Boekend
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Neil_Boekend » Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:31 am UTC

Molpy up.
Spoiler:
Image
Mikeski wrote:A "What If" update is never late. Nor is it early. It is posted precisely when it should be.

patzer's signature wrote:
flicky1991 wrote:I'm being quoted too much!

he/him/his

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby fatness » Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:42 am UTC

re: tee shirt dilemma

Has anyone actually contacted Randall at orders@xkcd.com and asked about this? Maybe a small royalty ($1-$5 each) sent to him would be enough to keep everything on the up and up. Legally, you can't have one made without his permission since that is not something covered by the Creative Commons NC license given that fair use doesn't apply with the creation of a derivative work directly incorporating substantial or essential elements of the original unless it would qualify as a work of parody. I don't think you mean these to be a parody of Time. Copyright law is a funny beast.

Practically, if you have one made just send him a couple bucks and a note thanking him for creating such a fantastic piece of art. It's about what he'd make from a shirt if he sold it himself,

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Exodies » Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:52 am UTC

highwater wrote:Having only recently wandered inside, I feel the need to delurk to remark that the word "Journey" in newpix m2917 is superimposed with what appears to be a Beanish "9".

P.S. - is there a different word for de-lurking if one had not previously registered for the One True Forum?

{P1167}
Yes, it's called "putting on the OTT" played to the tune of a song by Irving Berlin.
Ware2 guv? The Book of Dave

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Neil_Boekend » Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:58 am UTC

fatness wrote:re: tee shirt dilemma

Has anyone actually contacted Randall at orders@xkcd.com and asked about this? Maybe a small royalty ($1-$5 each) sent to him would be enough to keep everything on the up and up. Legally, you can't have one made without his permission since that is not something covered by the Creative Commons NC license given that fair use doesn't apply with the creation of a derivative work directly incorporating substantial or essential elements of the original unless it would qualify as a work of parody. I don't think you mean these to be a parody of Time. Copyright law is a funny beast.

Practically, if you have one made just send him a couple bucks and a note thanking him for creating such a fantastic piece of art. It's about what he'd make from a shirt if he sold it himself.

Making XKCD shirts for sale should start with contacting the GLR and asking him if it's allowed and how much he wants of the proceeds of the sale. Besides that it's legally the right thing to do it's also morally the right thing to do (for once those match up perfectly).
Just making them and deciding for yourself how much He gets from it is not the way to go.
See the license that's linked under each XKCD comic.
Fatness, please note that I do not mean to contradict you, just add to your point.
Mikeski wrote:A "What If" update is never late. Nor is it early. It is posted precisely when it should be.

patzer's signature wrote:
flicky1991 wrote:I'm being quoted too much!

he/him/his

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Heyyyy, Neat Sandcastle

Postby Eternal Density » Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:09 am UTC

(Actually I've decided to remove this since really I have no idea what I'm talking about :P)
Instead, have some RiverTam
Spoiler:
Image

TamTam
Last edited by Eternal Density on Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:31 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
Play the game of Time! castle.chirpingmustard.com Hotdog Vending Supplier But what is this?
In the Marvel vs. DC film-making war, we're all winners.

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The So-called Golden Age of Brazilian Music

Postby AluisioASG » Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:24 am UTC

Someone asked for native OTTifications. While doing it, for some reason it felt so odd… maybe it's because I'm already speaking to myself in English internally?

So this is my attempt on it, based on “Tempo Perdido” (Lost Time), by Legião Urbana.
Spoiler:

Todos os dias quando acordo
Não tenho mais o tempo que passou
Mas tenho muito tempo
Tenho todo o tempo do mundo

Todos os dias antes de dormir
Alucino como foi o dia:
“Sempre em frente,
Não temos tempo a perder.”

Trabalho tão sagrado
Tão belo o tempo que nos foi roubado
E tão simples…
E selvagem
Selvagem
Selvagem!

Veja o sol dessa manhã tão cinza
O tempo que passa nada mais é do que inspiração
Futura…
Então procure fundo
E me mostre o que és capaz de fazer
Tu podes de tudo

Temos nosso próprio tempo
Temos nosso próprio tempo
Temos nosso próprio tempo

Não tenho medo do mundo
Mas também não quero voltar… agora…
O que foi escondido é o que se escondeu
E o que foi prometido, ninguém prometeu
Nem foi tempo perdido!

Somos tão jovens
Tão jovens
Tão jovens!


Translation:
Spoiler:

Everyday when I wake up
I don't have the time that has passed anymore
But I have much time
I have all the time in the world

Everyday before I go sleep
I hallucinate about the day:
“Always straight ahead,
We have no time to lose.”

Work so holy
So beautiful
[was] the time that was stolen from us1
And so simple…
And wild
Wild
Wild!

See the sun of this morning so gray
The time that passes is nothing more than inspiration
[to the] future…
So look deep inside
And show me what you can do
You can do anything

We have our own time
We have our own time
We have our own time

I'm not afraid of the world
But I also don't want to go back… now…
What was hidden is what was hidden
2
And what was promised, no one promised
Neither it was lost time!
3

We're so young
So young
So young!


1 I don't even know what the original tense is.
2 While the second time, in the original, means the same as the first time, it grammatically emphasizes that someone hid it.
3 I'm still trying to parse this fragment…
Gingercat wrote:Yeah, my players just decided to sit back and watch the Nukewisp frenzy itself to Annihilation-level fire energy, THEN they killed it.
Thus ended that campaign.
Can't see addams on the right? Message me!Image

Randallspeed on your blitz, january1may! Save the Present!

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby yappobiscuits » Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:25 am UTC

Exodies wrote:
highwater wrote:Having only recently wandered inside, I feel the need to delurk to remark that the word "Journey" in newpix m2917 is superimposed with what appears to be a Beanish "9".

P.S. - is there a different word for de-lurking if one had not previously registered for the One True Forum?

{P1167}
Yes, it's called "putting on the OTT" played to the tune of a song by Irving Berlin.

Something like this? ;)
OTTscars results Pt. 2 coming... eventually, but not from me. Seeking writer.
English Instrumentalist Waterottermolpy
Mighty Troubadour of the OTT
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby AluisioASG » Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:03 am UTC

Here's another OTTification: The Legend of Megball, based on Legião Urbana's “Música Urbana 2” (Urban Music 2).

First, imagine a world governed by Timewaiters…
Spoiler:

Em cima dos telhados as antenas de TV espalham a lenda de Megball
Nas ruas os mendigos com esparadrapos podres
Cantam a lenda de Megball
Motocicletas querendo atenção à três da manhã ―
“Essa é a lenda de Megball.”
Os PM's armados e as tropas de choque vomitam a lenda de Megball
E nas escolas as crianças aprendem a repetir a lenda de Megball
Nos bares os viciados sempre tentam se distrair com a lenda de Megball
O vento forte seco e sujo em cantos de concreto
Parece a lenda de Megball
E a matilha de crianças sujas no meio da rua ―
É a lenda de Megball
E nos pontos de ônibus estão todos ali para a lenda de Megball
Os uniformes
Os cartazes
Os cinemas
E os lares
Nas favelas
Coberturas
Quase todos os lugares
E mais uma criança nasceu
Não há nem santos nem pecadores aqui
Só há a lenda de Megball
A lenda de Megball
Oh, a lenda de Megball
Yeah, a lenda de Megball
Uh, a lenda de Megball…


Translation:
Spoiler:

On the rooftops, TV antennas spread the legend of Megball
In the streets, mendicants with rotten bandages
Sing the legend of Megball
Motorcycles wanting attention at 3 a.m. ―
“This is the legend of Megball.”
The armed cops and the assault troops spew the legend of Megball
And in the schools the children learn to repeat the legend of Megball
In the pubs the addicts always try to distract themselves with the legend of Megball
The strong, dry and dirty wind
[blowing] in concrete corners
Sounds like the legend of Megball
And the pack of dirty children in the middle of the street ―
It's the legend of Megball
And in the bus stops, they are all there for the legend of Megball
The uniforms
The posters
The theaters
And the households
In the slums
In the penthouses
Almost everywhere
And one more child has born
There are no saints nor sinners here
There is only the legend of Megball
The legend of Megball
Oh, the legend of Megball
Yeah, the legend of Megball
Uh, the legend of Megball…


Now, molpy down for now. Maybe I see y'll tomorrow, maybe not.
Spoiler:
Image
Hmm… eternal sleep…
Gingercat wrote:Yeah, my players just decided to sit back and watch the Nukewisp frenzy itself to Annihilation-level fire energy, THEN they killed it.
Thus ended that campaign.
Can't see addams on the right? Message me!Image

Randallspeed on your blitz, january1may! Save the Present!

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby wizpretz » Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:41 am UTC

AluisioASG wrote:Someone asked for native OTTifications. While doing it, for some reason it felt so odd… maybe it's because I'm already speaking to myself in English internally?

Can that even happen?

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby rvloon » Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:49 am UTC

k.bookbinder wrote:In my opinion (and please let me know if I am wrong) I think part of Charlie's concern is also along the idea that, if I go online and buy a custom made shirt, using a frame, or piece of a frame from Time, and then give it to you, it is the shirt company that I bought the custom shirt from who got all my money. GLR gets nothing. Now, if I do that and then sell the shirt, there is definitely a license violation there. But still, there is the moral aspect of whether or not we should be giving our money for merchandise (even though it is custom designed) to a shirt company, and not to Randall.

So what I think we need to do is convince GLR to allow us to design shirts for his store! :D Very little work on his part (except placing the orders through his vendor). Perhaps he can choose which designs to use from the wiki site. How wowterfull would that be?


A few points on this I'd like to make:
- the shirt company makes money when selling the shirt
- the shirt *printing* company makes money when printing the artwork

However, the money made is exactly the same when printing Randall's artwork as when they would be printing, say, an MC Escher black-and-white. So, the shirt company and the shirt company does not make money on the artwork. It would be different if they chose to charge you $5 more when its XKCD vs $3 less for the Escher.

The license does not prohibit someone from making money as a by-product of creating an end product. There is no clause that says: anything commercial in the chain breaks the license. It says that you cannot use the artwork:

- if you're going to make money out of it
- if you do not attribute it to Randall.

So, creating T-shirts as presents for friends is perfectly acceptable. Of course, it is also a matter of scale. 1-10 T-shirts makes you a fairly active fan. 10-50: grey area. 50+: you're providing a T-shirt service, and even at cost, this means you made it into a business which has the side-effect that it is making you something: namely, well-known. It also violates the license in terms of your suppliers, as the bulk production will generate them more revenue than it would have if it would have been a one-off situation. So, in that case it can be argued that they are making money of the artwork, because without the artwork they would never have been able to print so many t-shirts, whereas in the small-numbers case the money made is arguable the same as with random artwork.

Making the design available so others could print it, is merely a derivative work where the same logic applies. But the advantage of sharing the design is that everyone can do a one-off.

Of course, when in doubt: ASK RANDALL. He has currently chosen not to create any Time-related merchandise. That may change in the future. However, until then I would basically:
- offer him the designs so he can offer them at some point, regardless of numbers, as a courtesy.
- donate him a reasonable amount of money per shirt
- ask whenever demand exceeds a certain threshold (5 shirts?) and arrange either an addition to the XKCD merchandise store with him, or offer to offer the service yourself with an agreed upon percentage going to Randall. Win-win.

Ronald

fatness wrote:re: tee shirt dilemma

Has anyone actually contacted Randall at orders@xkcd.com and asked about this? Maybe a small royalty ($1-$5 each) sent to him would be enough to keep everything on the up and up. Legally, you can't have one made without his permission since that is not something covered by the Creative Commons NC license given that fair use doesn't apply with the creation of a derivative work directly incorporating substantial or essential elements of the original unless it would qualify as a work of parody. I don't think you mean these to be a parody of Time. Copyright law is a funny beast.

Practically, if you have one made just send him a couple bucks and a note thanking him for creating such a fantastic piece of art. It's about what he'd make from a shirt if he sold it himself,


The CC license does explicitly allow the creation of Derivative Works. However, see above for my take on this matter.

Ronald
Spoiler:
I followed Time until The End and I cannot even buy a chirping T-shirt.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby lmjb1964 » Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:07 am UTC

yappobiscuits wrote:
k.bookbinder wrote:@Yappobiscuits I think I may have to compare mead making notes with you some time.

Awesomeful! My first batch, which I started in October, is nearly done, so I'll let you know how it goes!

It's a big sacrifice on my part, but if anyone needs someone to sample their mead, I'm glad to help out. :wink:

dawnfire wrote:Was pondering a fitting tribute to Time and The End in song form and felt this one had something to offer. Hope you like it!

Spoiler:
Somewhere Out There
An ottification of Somewhere Out There by Linda Ronstadt and James Ingram

Somewhere out there beneath the pale moonlight
Lucky's found some shelter and resting safe tonight

Somewhere out there Megan's saying a prayer
That they'll find a new home there in that big somewhere out there

And you could spend a thousand lifetimes staring at water and sand
And never guess the world had things as beautiful or grand

And as The End hits home and they head off on a new hike
It helps to know we can replay them any time we like

Somewhere out there, if maps can see them through
Then they'll be together somewhere out there
And with me and you

And you could spend a thousand lifetimes staring at water and sand
And never guess the world had things as beautiful or grand

And as the end hits home and they head off on a new hike
It helps to know we can replay them any time we like

Somewhere out there, if maps can see them through
Then they'll be together somewhere out there
And with me and you

ETA: Originally from the wonderful animated film 'American Tail' (now *that's* a movie with a lot of molpies in it!)

Steakish!

A lovely firstpost:
Spoiler:
the_Dex wrote:Hello to all the OTTer's in the future. I'd like to introduce myself. I go by Dex, and like many here have been a long time fan of xkcd. I don't normally register for forums so I hope I don't make to many faux pas (never liked liver anyways). I have read the rules though : )

Way back on March 25th, since I read the tool tip of that day's comic, I came back to xkcd and saw that the image was different than earlier. Having been amazed at some of the stuff that GLR has pulled off in the past (cough drag cough) I "wisely" put down another bookmark and blithely went on my way.

For several months I checked it every so often in addition to my morning e-jaunts through my webcomic bookmarks, and that seemed sufficient. I could tell that I was missing images, but there never seemed to be drastic changes. Little did I know what I was actually missing.

Then things started changing rapidly. Wait, where are they walking too? When did they find that tower thingy? A cathedral!?!? But through it all I was never motivated to dig deeper. Until, believe it or not, Friday July 26th (I'm sorry, I know it still must hurt).

I don't even remember now what the image was that prompted me to break out the google, but I did. And found the Explainxkcd wiki (wonderful btw) and links to all sorts of useful things, like Time players. And I played it… and I was stunned. All this! This was going on the whole time! Every hour! After going through it a couple of times and doing a few other searches, I plopped onto one of pages of this very thread.

Oh my word, what was going on here. People speaking in tongues, technical analysis of time and place. Thankfully I was off that day (unfortunately I had a to do list that didn't). I bounced between random pages of the thread and the wiki. It was amazing. But the outside intruded and off I went, another few bookmarks richer.

So I log back in on Saturday, with my unearthed my copies of the Gandalara Cycle (from way back in the bookcase) and there it was. Game over man, game over! Like many of you I was taken aback, but maybe for a different reason. I mean, I had just found all this. I picked up my bookmark and started reading, and reading, and… oh, listening. Amazing job on the "Every Newframe's awefulsome" video YappoBiscuits. I finally caught up around pg. 1286, not counting the 1000+ previous pages I know nothing about. And I just sat there, and thought about it.

I must say I am very impressed with what you all… sorry, all y'all, have built here. To me forums are something to get in, get the information you need, and get out, preferable before you see anything too toxic. But this place appears to nuture not only whimsical fun, but some serious talent and brain power as well. I am bummed I was not able to join everyone on this journey as it unfolded.

I have started from page one and am now working my way through this thread. It's quite interesting to see how it all unfolded (I'm on pg. 66 I think). But at the rate you guys are generating new pages, it'll probably take me (lets see, thats 12, carry the 2…) oh, I don't know, like two years yips to catch up to your present. But I hope that, when I finally see that day, there will still be some OTTer's there to say hello.

And by the way, if you guys could convince GLR to produce that t-shirt with the first frame on the front and the last frame on the back… I desperately want to give him money for that! I don't remember who came up with that but it is a perfect summary of this whole experience.

To the fore, time starts
'pon the hind, time ends
and in the span between I exist.

Sorry about the newb-plosion. I guess between catching up and Outside requirements I built up a few things to say. Time to put the shoulder to the boulder for a little bit and see if I can't get it closer to the top, which seems to keep growing.

Dex

Welcome, Dex, and Randallspeed on your Blitz! A noble journey indeed!

HES wrote:
Spoiler:
Image

Took me a bit to see what you did, there.

b2bomberkrh wrote:<snip>Meanwhile, here's a story some of you might like:
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/cute-dog-video-boston-terrier-puppys-steps-born-19804727

OMR, that is such a sweet story! Thanks for sharing it.

AluisioASG, I really enjoyed your ottifications. The Queen one,especially; I'm a huge Queen fan, and I love that song. But I really enjoyed the ones in Portugese. It's funny, I can sort of almost read it because it's sort of almost like Spanish, but then I can't, because it isn't. (Did that make sense?) But I have to say, I hope a world governed by TimeWaiters would be less gloomy than it sounded like in that song. :shock: And I think you really wanted to stay here with us, and that's why you missed your bus. :)

azule, great odetity! Your lyrics were a heck of a lot more interesting than the original ones. But that video was...interesting. :?

Edited because somehoe OMR ended up being OHM. Must be time to coma...
Image

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Imagesmiley by yappo
That's a robot but it totally counts. Image

bot by balthasar_s

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby silent_death » Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:48 am UTC

Now that time is over, after a long Absence, I want to post here again....I activily read this thread until after the great fading, when the journey started...since then, the Outside has taken a grasp of me, and I am ashamed that I could not dwell in the one true Thread any longer.

I just wanted to say - it was an amazing experience. As time was going on, Civilizations rose and fell, religions were formed, split and abandoned - the Messiah Blitzgirl went on her epic Quest and fullfilled it at long last to the joy of everyone watching.

I am deeply honored to have been part of that - even it was only for a very short segment of the way...I still watch the one true comic several times during day...I am still waiting for it.

Because of my long absence I also feel that I should lay down my priesterly title of "Expecto Space Bishop Temporas" of the eastern unorthodox Timewaiters...Space Pope Kryton...I resign my position...so long, and thanks for all the Fish.

*EDIT*I almost forgot...I still have our Collection plate...I kindly present it to you Kryton, filled with all the time gems one can imagine */EDIT*
- former Expecto Space Bishop Temporas of the Church of Eastern unorthodox Timewaiters

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Kazza3 » Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:51 am UTC

Given the amount of poetry, etc, here, I thought some of you might enjoy some of Kenneth Slessor's work, if you're not familiar with it. He's an Australian poet (who, strangely for an Australian poet, doesn't solely write about the bush), and who wrote around the first half of the 20th century. This one of his more well-known poems, 'Out of Time', which shouldn't be taken as directly relevant to our Time, as it's more about the nature of time as the aggressor, relentlessly driving forward and leaving us behind, and yet also as the loser, unable to appreciate the 'timeless' moments of beauty like we do. Also recommended, on similar themes, Five Bells, and otherwise, Beach Burial, Sleep, Elegy In A Botanic Garden.

Out of Time by Kenneth Slessor wrote:I

I saw Time flowing like a hundred yachts
That fly behind the daylight, foxed with air;
Or piercing, like the quince-bright, bitter slats
Of sun gone thrusting under Harbour's hair.
So Time, the wave, enfolds me in its bed,
Or Time, the bony knife, it runs me through.
"Skulker, take heart," I thought my own heart said.
"The flood, the blade go by - Time flows, not you!"

Vilely, continuously, stupidly,
Time takes me, drills me, drives through bone and vein,
So water bends the seaweeds in the sea,
The tide goes over, but the weeds remain.

Time, you must cry farewell, take up the track,
And leave this lovely moment at your back!

II

Time leaves the lovely moment at his back,
Eager to quench and ripen, kiss or kill;
To-morrow begs him, breathless for his lack,
Or beauty dead entreats him to be still.
His fate pursues him; he must open doors,
Or close them, for that pale and faceless host
Without a flag, whose agony implores
Birth to be flesh, or funeral, to be ghost.

Out of all reckoning, out of dark and light,
Over the edges of dead Nows and Heres,
Blindly and softly, as a mistress might,
He keeps appointments with a million years.

I and the moment laugh, and let him go,
Leaning against his golden undertow.

III

Leaning against the golden undertow,
Backward, I saw the birds begin to climb
with bodies hailstone-clear, and shadows flow,
Fixed in a sweet meniscus, out of Time,
Out of the torrent, like the fainter land
Lensed in a bubble's ghostly camera,
The lighted beach, the sharp and china sand
Glitters and waters and peninsula -

The moment's world it was; and I was part,
Fleshless and ageless, changeless and made free.
"Fool, would you leave this country?" cried my heart,
But I was taken by the suck of sea.

The gulls go down, the body dies and rots,
And Time flows past them like a hundred yachts.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Eliram » Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:51 am UTC

Neil_Boekend wrote:
fatness wrote:re: tee shirt dilemma

Has anyone actually contacted Randall at orders@xkcd.com and asked about this? Maybe a small royalty ($1-$5 each) sent to him would be enough to keep everything on the up and up. Legally, you can't have one made without his permission since that is not something covered by the Creative Commons NC license given that fair use doesn't apply with the creation of a derivative work directly incorporating substantial or essential elements of the original unless it would qualify as a work of parody. I don't think you mean these to be a parody of Time. Copyright law is a funny beast.

Practically, if you have one made just send him a couple bucks and a note thanking him for creating such a fantastic piece of art. It's about what he'd make from a shirt if he sold it himself.

Making XKCD shirts for sale should start with contacting the GLR and asking him if it's allowed and how much he wants of the proceeds of the sale. Besides that it's legally the right thing to do it's also morally the right thing to do (for once those match up perfectly).
Just making them and deciding for yourself how much He gets from it is not the way to go.
See the license that's linked under each XKCD comic.
Fatness, please note that I do not mean to contradict you, just add to your point.


Here is my (not legal) opinion in the matter.

First, according to the current license of the XKCD material, commercial use is forbidden.

"Fair use" - Irrelevant. (Example of fair use: Displaying 1 frame of time in a NYTimes article about Time)

"Derivative Work"- Allowed (But not commercial use of it). This includes, for example, the OTColored versions, which are not violating the terms, and are exactly why this license was chosen.

"Paying GLR for his work" - Irrelevant and has nothing to do with legal issues. If he doesn't ask for money, you don't HAVE to pay him for using the material within the limits of the license. (It would be nice if you do, but that's irrelevant, and it does not solve any legal issues even if you pay him $1000 per shirt you illegally sell for $5).

"The shirt makers are violating the license terms" - (note that I'm not using "copyright" since this is not the license in question) This is a tricky issue, but IMO they are not violating any terms by printing a shirt. If you are allowed to make a shirt yourself, you are allowed to pay someone to make it for you. The shirt makers are selling a service, not GLR's art. As long as they don't offer the art as an item they sell, they should be okay.
This is somewhat similar to the fact that since an OTColored version is okay to make, Adobe does not violate copyright terms just because they charged someone who bought Photoshop to colorize a frame.

One potential problem with that is the case when someone takes an image and creates a shirt identical to one offered in the XKCD store. GLR could argue that this causes him losses, but legally it won't be a very solid case. Morally wrong, sure. But I'm not discussing moral yet.
Another problem is mass production, where a large quantity of shirts is being ordered, which should possibly cause them to ask questions.
In our case, though, (1) GLR was clear that he does not intent to sell Time shirts in the near future, and (2) we are discussing a single shirt.

Attribution - XKCD or XKCD.com should appear on any shirt.

Moral - Paying GLR via the donation system or by buying at the XKCD store is neat. Giving a free usage (NC) license to others is also neat. I think that the community that likes the XKCD are the sort of people who are moral and giving. So as long as you're not being complete jerks, please be creative.

I, for one, hope to design a Time shirt for myself (derivative + attribution). I'll let you know if that happens. If GLR decides he does not approve of it, I'll be happy to mail the shirt to him (Although after being worn by me, I wouldn't recommend that to him) :-)

Finally - A quote from XKCD's license page: "If you're not sure whether your use is noncommercial, feel free to email me and ask (if you're not sure, it's probably okay)."

[Edited to fix a typo]
It's about time.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Volcano99 » Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:57 am UTC

Is there any website with all the colored frames?

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Eliram
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Eliram » Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:10 am UTC

Volcano99 wrote:Is there any website with all the colored frames?

Yes. http://xkcd-time.wikia.com/wiki/OTColored
It's about time.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Volcano99 » Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:24 am UTC

Eliram wrote:
Volcano99 wrote:Is there any website with all the colored frames?

Yes. http://xkcd-time.wikia.com/wiki/OTColored

I'll try to make something with a viewer/uploader this week!

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby mscha » Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:57 am UTC

Blind post, very possibly ninja'd:

In the OMR-it's-all-related department, today's Other Comic's negative zipcode apocalypse must will have spread to the rest of the world some Time in the next 11,000 years, for our civilization to end.
List¹ of all Frames of Time and after Time.
New here? Questions? Check the wiki.
Don't worry, feed molpies⁴.
Image
Holy Croce
Default footnotes; standard OTT-np2166m 1.2:
Spoiler:
Image
Image

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Neil_Boekend » Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:16 am UTC

Sadly that doesn't work (yet?) on weather.com or buienradar.nl (Dutch version). Buienradar doesn't even accept my postcode (our version of ZIP).
Mikeski wrote:A "What If" update is never late. Nor is it early. It is posted precisely when it should be.

patzer's signature wrote:
flicky1991 wrote:I'm being quoted too much!

he/him/his

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby NoMouse » Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:00 am UTC

wizpretz wrote:
AluisioASG wrote:Someone asked for native OTTifications. While doing it, for some reason it felt so odd… maybe it's because I'm already speaking to myself in English internally?

Can that even happen?

Well, I for one speak to myself in English when thinking about the OTT, even though my English sucks. When thinking of other topics, I think in Czech. It's kind of strange. So, doing an OTTification in my native language indeed feels odd. Especially since we have developed new dictionary with words like "molpy", "newpix"... - I have no idea how to translate that. :D Krtpy? Novobr?
Time. The final frontier. These are the voyages of Cueball and Megan. Its continuing mission: to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no one has gone before.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby the_Dex » Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:11 am UTC

Groggily blind posting.

I kept thinking about the first/last frame time t-shirt, and it struck me that it seems like it actually should be the last frame on the front and the first frame on the back, 'cause, like, I move(ed) forward through time.

Behind me time started
Before me it ends
in the span between I exist.

I'd really like that t-shirt (just the frames, the words are just my silliness). I've been checking the store to see if GLR has posted anything Time related, nothing yet. :(

Wish I had time to do some more Time traveling, but need to go earn my daily bread.
embracethehate wrote:"hey, can you-"
"Sorry, can't. Sandcastle."

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby charlie_grumbles » Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:12 am UTC

Latent22 wrote:
jjjdavidson wrote:
charlie_grumbles wrote:
Spoiler:
jjjdavidson wrote:
charlie_grumbles wrote:
jjjdavidson wrote:But we can still give T-shirts to each other, right?

That too could be a problem. Many of the T-shirt shops won't touch fan art if it contains actual images from the original. molpy-grapevine is probably ok, since it isn't from GLR, but the places that make stuff for me won't print stuff that came from a web-comic, even if modified. I don't know about a one-off, though. For the rules of one large company, look here:
http://www.cafepress.com/cp/info/help/i ... e=cup.aspx.
It might be OK with GLR to make a one-off for yourself, but someone has to be convinced that it is ok to make it. I think that, since he does sell t-shirts to support his art, it would be a problem, morally, if not legally. You could make an
"I <3 GLR"
shirt easily enough and not infringe. Likewise "I waited for it", or "I waited for one darkening pixel". Stuff like that is fine. But not his art.

"I heard you're idea's and their definately good" ─ I've never dealt with a print shop on something like this. But I'm not worried about the moral aspect, as long as we stay strictly non-commercial. A Creative Commons license is a deliberate choice, and Randall makes it clear he understands it. But any shirts (or whatever) we make must definately include a reference to "http://xkcd.com/1190/".

Sigh. Yes, but, you seem to be ignoring "noncommercial". It is a very important word here. A CC license is not "public domain". He uses a CC-BY-NC license. NOTE THAT is is NOT CC-BY, or CC-BY-SA. It is CC-BY-NC. Don't try to finesse it. See http://creativecommons.org/. Read it and understand.

Sorry, I'm not ignoring "non-commercial"; I'm just failing to understand how me making a T-shirt and giving it to you isn't non-commercial. Am I missing something?

─Okay, I just saw Latent22's post and now I'm even more confused. I can't get a T-shirt made for myself with artwork I supply because the print shop makes money? Then how can Kinko's (or my public library) legally make money off my xeroxing of frankly copyrighted material under "fair use"? That makes it sound as if I can't xerox a page from a book unless I buy my own copier first. I need to go lie down. :bumfuzzled:

(Thanks for your patience. This is genuinely confusing.)


Yeah it is actually quite a chirpen confusing mess with many grey areas. Fair use is really a different issue. Fair use is just a defense if someone takes you to court over their copyright. By photocopying someones works without express permission from the holder of the copyright you ARE technically breaking the copyright. However if they take you to court they will never win because you can use the fair use defense to shoot them down. (Think "Not Guilty by reason of insanity" without the straight jacket. Yeah you killed him but we can't find you guilty)

So really when someone says "It's ok for me to copy this because it's covered by fair use" they really should be saying "It's ok for me to copy this because If they sue me I'll get off it because of the fair use defense"

But also to your example what is the difference between a photocopier company and a t-shirt printer really. A lot of it comes down to the fact that photocopying places just generally ignore copyright issues and just assume that no one will ever sue them for the few micro cents they make in profit from their activity. Companies making higher margins are more worried about copyright holders complaining.

Looks like I'll get to 900 on this one issue.
First, "fair use" is mostly dead in the US. Second I doubt that it ever applied to something like this in the first place. It was never unlimited under law. The exception was there (largely) for academic research so that every researcher in the world was not required to purchase every bit of reference material for his or her work. Once the Xerox machine was invented and it became easy to make copies of print material, the owners of copyright started to attack the law as it was then written and it has mostly disappeared. So, no, I don't think you would "get off".

Back in the early days, and perhaps now, librarians had to keep a list of what was copied on their Xerox machines so that the limited rules could be enforced. The librarian knew (knows) exactly what was copied and by whom. If some passage had already been copied a certain number of times, you would be refused. Copying in classroom quantities (say 20) was always frowned on and sometimes forbidden. And Kinko's is dead, I think. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use. It gives information on what the exceptions are/were.

Try to copy a track or two of, say, Justin Bieber'ssteambottle, portfolio and see how you fare if it becomes known.

However, much more important in my view is that Randall Munroe has created something. He, and not I, should have control over the decisions about how that appears in the world. I noted that his license does not include SA (share alike). That means that, technically, he has not given permission for modifications and extensions to be made. I don't think he would object to what is being done here (though I don't know that), but has not, in fact, authorized it via his license. On the page that gives GLR's description of what is allowable, he talks only about presenting his work as is in various scenarios. But it also gives an email address by which you can know if what you want to do is ok. (xkcd@xkcd.com)

The moral principle here is that for his designs he should be the one to make decisions about how they are used, not me. I'm not arrogant enough to think I can substitute my decisions for his (and I have more than a few nano-Dijkstras, myself).

And remember, you think you are honoring him by wanting to do this. But if the rules permit you to do it, they would also permit the xkcdsucks people to do the same.

If you want to let Randall use your art on a T, make sure that on the wiki you make it possible for him to contact you so that he can get your permission to do so. The rules work two ways.

ETA. @fatness and Neil_Boekend were mostly right above and rvloon was almost entirely wrong. Sorry. You (rvloon) seem to be saying you can substitute your judgement for GLR's and make that ok with a few bucks. Your "threshold", if the quantity is your judgement, is exactly like "a little bit pregnant." Also see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derivative_works
Last edited by charlie_grumbles on Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:29 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Neil_Boekend
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Neil_Boekend » Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:20 am UTC

wizpretz wrote:
AluisioASG wrote:Someone asked for native OTTifications. While doing it, for some reason it felt so odd… maybe it's because I'm already speaking to myself in English internally?

Can that even happen?

Yes it can happen. If I am reading an English book and listening to Dutch music (which is never really by choice) then I notice that I can't understand one of the languages. It takes about a second to switch from reading English to listening to Dutch, that switch takes a terrible lot of energy and switching to often gives a headache.
If I am reading English I am thinking in English. If I am reading German I am thinking in German. If I am reading OTT I am thinking in OTT. I do not know any other languages well enough to cause this.
Mikeski wrote:A "What If" update is never late. Nor is it early. It is posted precisely when it should be.

patzer's signature wrote:
flicky1991 wrote:I'm being quoted too much!

he/him/his

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby k.bookbinder » Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:26 am UTC

Molpy up!

AluisioASG wrote:Here's another OTTification: The Legend of Megball, based on Legião Urbana's “Música Urbana 2” (Urban Music 2).

First, imagine a world governed by Timewaiters…
Spoiler:

Em cima dos telhados as antenas de TV espalham a lenda de Megball
Nas ruas os mendigos com esparadrapos podres
Cantam a lenda de Megball
Motocicletas querendo atenção à três da manhã ―
“Essa é a lenda de Megball.”
Os PM's armados e as tropas de choque vomitam a lenda de Megball
E nas escolas as crianças aprendem a repetir a lenda de Megball
Nos bares os viciados sempre tentam se distrair com a lenda de Megball
O vento forte seco e sujo em cantos de concreto
Parece a lenda de Megball
E a matilha de crianças sujas no meio da rua ―
É a lenda de Megball
E nos pontos de ônibus estão todos ali para a lenda de Megball
Os uniformes
Os cartazes
Os cinemas
E os lares
Nas favelas
Coberturas
Quase todos os lugares
E mais uma criança nasceu
Não há nem santos nem pecadores aqui
Só há a lenda de Megball
A lenda de Megball
Oh, a lenda de Megball
Yeah, a lenda de Megball
Uh, a lenda de Megball…


Translation:
Spoiler:

On the rooftops, TV antennas spread the legend of Megball
In the streets, mendicants with rotten bandages
Sing the legend of Megball
Motorcycles wanting attention at 3 a.m. ―
“This is the legend of Megball.”
The armed cops and the assault troops spew the legend of Megball
And in the schools the children learn to repeat the legend of Megball
In the pubs the addicts always try to distract themselves with the legend of Megball
The strong, dry and dirty wind
[blowing] in concrete corners
Sounds like the legend of Megball
And the pack of dirty children in the middle of the street ―
It's the legend of Megball
And in the bus stops, they are all there for the legend of Megball
The uniforms
The posters
The theaters
And the households
In the slums
In the penthouses
Almost everywhere
And one more child has born
There are no saints nor sinners here
There is only the legend of Megball
The legend of Megball
Oh, the legend of Megball
Yeah, the legend of Megball
Uh, the legend of Megball…


Now, molpy down for now. Maybe I see y'll tomorrow, maybe not.
Spoiler:
Image
Hmm… eternal sleep…


This is great! :D Although, for some reason I cannot help but think of some kind of strange Totalitarian Timewaiter regime.

NoMouse wrote:
wizpretz wrote:
AluisioASG wrote:Someone asked for native OTTifications. While doing it, for some reason it felt so odd… maybe it's because I'm already speaking to myself in English internally?

Can that even happen?

Well, I for one speak to myself in English when thinking about the OTT, even though my English sucks. When thinking of other topics, I think in Czech. It's kind of strange. So, doing an OTTification in my native language indeed feels odd. Especially since we have developed new dictionary with words like "molpy", "newpix"... - I have no idea how to translate that. :D Krtpy? Novobr?


In any foreign language, one might find borrowed words in the vocabulary. Czech or English, molpy is molpy. :)
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby NoMouse » Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:28 am UTC

charlie_grumbles wrote:I noted that his license does not include SA (share alike). That means that, technically, he has not given permission for modifications and extensions to be made. I don't think he would object to what is being done here (though I don't know that), but has not, in fact, authorized it via his license.

Sorry, but that's not true. According to the license description (CC BY-NC) "This license lets others remix, twerk, and build upon your work non-commercially, and although their new works must also acknowledge you and be non-commercial, they don’t have to license their derivative works on the same terms."

The share alike means "If you alter, transform, or build upon this work, you may distribute the resulting work only under the same or similar license to this one.", so license including SA is actually more restrictive then without it.

k.bookbinder wrote:
NoMouse wrote:Especially since we have developed new dictionary with words like "molpy", "newpix"... - I have no idea how to translate that. :D Krtpy? Novobr?

In any foreign language, one might find borrowed words in the vocabulary. Czech or English, molpy is molpy. :)

Yeah, good point.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Latent22 » Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:37 am UTC

charlie_grumbles wrote:However, much more important in my view is that Randall Munroe has created something. He, and not I, should have control over the decisions about how that appears in the world. I noted that his license does not include SA (share alike). That means that, technically, he has not given permission for modifications and extensions to be made. I don't think he would object to what is being done here (though I don't know that), but has not, in fact, authorized it via his license. On the page that gives GLR's description of what is allowable, he talks only about presenting his work as is in various scenarios. But it also gives an email address by which you can know if what you want to do is ok. (xkcd@xkcd.com)

good info thanks charlie. Just wondering though about modifications. The license he links to from his site is http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/2.5/. And this very explicitly states in the summery "to Remix — to adapt the work ". Which is many of the things we are doing on the OTT.

From what I can see he has not used a share alike version of the license as you state. But the share alike license is just more strict and adds a requirement that if we use ANY of his work in ours then we MUST release our whole work under the same license to keep it open for others to use. I think his license allows us to release our derivative work under any license we choose since its mostly our copyright we can do what we want with it EXCEPT we must also satisfy his license which means non commercial use and attribution.

Ninjed by NoMouse it seems
Last edited by Latent22 on Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:02 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby charlie_grumbles » Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:41 am UTC

NoMouse wrote:
charlie_grumbles wrote:I noted that his license does not include SA (share alike). That means that, technically, he has not given permission for modifications and extensions to be made. I don't think he would object to what is being done here (though I don't know that), but has not, in fact, authorized it via his license.

Sorry, but that's not true. According to the license description (CC BY-NC) "This license lets others remix, twerk, and build upon your work non-commercially, and although their new works must also acknowledge you and be non-commercial, they don’t have to license their derivative works on the same terms."

The share alike means "If you alter, transform, or build upon this work, you may distribute the resulting work only under the same or similar license to this one.", so license including SA is actually more restrictive then without it.

Yes, thanks. I missed that distinction.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Ximenez » Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:46 am UTC

A few comments about cc-by-nc, Time and shirts. (Yeah, me too.)

- You can make a shirt for yourself or to give it as a present. It's a derivative, noncommercial work. You can even post a design so that any other person can use it to make a shirt, provided that you don't charge for it.

- The shirt company will not be infringing, the same way mscha's hosting provider does not infringe because of xkcd.mscha.org.

- You can't make a shirt which is a copy of something sold in the xkcd store. The items in the store are not under a cc license, but "© 2013 the xkcd store. All Rights Reserved".

- As the GLR wisely says: If in doubt, it's probably ok.

(I am not a lawyer, nor I live in the USA, but I've been interested in these issues for a long time.)

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby SBN » Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:57 am UTC

Ximenez wrote:A few comments about cc-by-nc, Time and shirts. (Yeah, me too.)

- You can make a shirt for yourself or to give it as a present. It's a derivative, noncommercial work. You can even post a design so that any other person can use it to make a shirt, provided that you don't charge for it.

- The shirt company will not be infringing, the same way mscha's hosting provider does not infringe because of xkcd.mscha.org.

- You can't make a shirt which is a copy of something sold in the xkcd store. The items in the store are not under a cc license, but "© 2013 the xkcd store. All Rights Reserved".

- As the GLR wisely says: If in doubt, it's probably ok.

(I am not a lawyer, nor I live in the USA, but I've been interested in these issues for a long time.)

While I do hope to get a Time shirt or two at some point, and an OTT shirt (Molpy up!) I think the best thing to do for the moment is wait. We're good at that. We told him we want shirts, he's heard us, now we should back off for awhile and let him rest. In the meantime we can get the wiki page up to date. (It's making progress, thanks for that.) Is there some way we could add counters to it, so we could indicate which ones we'd be most likely to actually buy? No fair just clicking them all, click the couple you really do want, and will really want four months from now.

On the topic of the wiki: My preference would be a simple one color background. Maybe I'm the only one though.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby charlie_grumbles » Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:05 pm UTC

Latent22 wrote:
charlie_grumbles wrote:However, much more important in my view is that Randall Munroe has created something. He, and not I, should have control over the decisions about how that appears in the world. I noted that his license does not include SA (share alike). That means that, technically, he has not given permission for modifications and extensions to be made. I don't think he would object to what is being done here (though I don't know that), but has not, in fact, authorized it via his license. On the page that gives GLR's description of what is allowable, he talks only about presenting his work as is in various scenarios. But it also gives an email address by which you can know if what you want to do is ok. (xkcd@xkcd.com)

good info thanks charlie. Just wondering though about modifications. The license he links to from his site is http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/2.5/. And this very explicitly states in the summery "to Remix — to adapt the work ". Which is many of the things we are doing on the OTT.

From what I can see he has not used a share alike version of the license as you state. But the share alike license is just more strict and adds a requirement that if we use ANY of his work in ours then we MUST release our whole work under the same license to keep it open for others to use. I think his license allows us to release our derivative work under any license we choose since its mostly our copyright we can do what we want with it EXCEPT we must also satisfy his license which means non commercial use and attribution.

Be careful here, though. I worry about your "mostly our copyright". I think that is incorrect. There is a definition in law about derived work. (I linked to the wikipedia article previously). If I take his art and change one pixel from FF to FE does that make it mine to license how I please? I'm guessing that almost none of the colorizations here would come up to the level of the law, as fun and pleasing as they are.

A T shirt with one of these designs has two elements: Randall's work and your colorization:. As yourself these questions? What is it that (most) makes me want to have this shirt? Is it the psychedelic coloring, or the XKCD/1190 art work? If I could only have one or the other, which would it be? I think the answers would be clear. I think Kieryn's sand castle is the most clear exception since it contains a clear level of creativity beyond what is in 1190. Some of the photomanips possibly also. I'd see that as a grey area. He had a waterfall, I have a waterfall. His is B/W hand drawn, mine is a photo. Did I add I add enough creativity to make it mine? I don't know.

But, yes, I was incorrect about derived works, since he could have added ND (no derivative work), but did not. But make sure you fit the definition of derivative work first.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Selcouth » Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:08 pm UTC

Just saw the blag post, myself (yeah, I know I'm late.) Still, all I can say is :DDDD and as one of the comments said, "Who da man? Randall da man."

I really hope for t-shirts as well, either made by one of us or (maybe) by Randall. But can we do something better than t-shirts, somehow? T-shirts are ordinary, for ordinary xkcd comics... this was special. ("What we had was special!")

Also, WE STILL HAVE TO DECODE BEANISH! Don't forget about that!

Edit: as to his technically not having given permission, wouldn't it be possible for some of us to try to reach him directly (by xkcd@xkcd.com, I suppose) and ask him, or one of his coworkers/minions at xkcd, just to make certain we don't break any rules?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby charlie_grumbles » Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:15 pm UTC

Ximenez wrote:A few comments about cc-by-nc, Time and shirts. (Yeah, me too.)

- You can make a shirt for yourself or to give it as a present. It's a derivative, noncommercial work. You can even post a design so that any other person can use it to make a shirt, provided that you don't charge for it.

If you make it, then yes. If you have it made, then it's less clear. As I said before, the big outfits won't do it if they know, though you could likely sneak it by them and your neighborhood copy shop might not care. You can post it, yes, under the license, but not "so that others can make a shirt." They might, but if it is your intention to get around a license, you are infringing, I'd think.
Ximenez wrote:- The shirt company will not be infringing, the same way mscha's hosting provider does not infringe because of xkcd.mscha.org.

That depends on what you and mscha do. Bieber'ssteambottle music? The provider would take him down to protect itself. Though this depends on local law (which is a disaster, I know).
Ximenez wrote:- You can't make a shirt which is a copy of something sold in the xkcd store. The items in the store are not under a cc license, but "© 2013 the xkcd store. All Rights Reserved".

- As the GLR wisely says: If in doubt, it's probably ok.

(I am not a lawyer, nor I live in the USA, but I've been interested in these issues for a long time.)

Correct, but check. Don't assume.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Eliram » Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:18 pm UTC

charlie_grumbles wrote:If you want to let Randall use your art on a T, make sure that on the wiki you make it possible for him to contact you so that he can get your permission to do so. The rules work two ways.

The OTColored page includes a column for artist name for this and other reasons. GLR could PM artists if he'd like to.
This could be lovely, but frankly I don't think he would.

charlie_grumbles wrote:If I take his art and change one pixel from FF to FE does that make it mine to license how I please?


Yes!

If I change one pixel, I can ask that no one will copy my new creation with that one pixel, and to copyright my change (theoretically. Usually the change should be significant, but even one pixel can be significant)

Now, I still can't change the license of the original frame, but you wouldn't be able to print a shirt with BlitzGirl's colorifications without her permission since it's copyrighted by default. Even GLR can't sell shirts with her creations, since she is allowed to change the license. He can't even print one for himself.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Neil_Boekend » Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:26 pm UTC

Eliram wrote:
Spoiler:
charlie_grumbles wrote:If you want to let Randall use your art on a T, make sure that on the wiki you make it possible for him to contact you so that he can get your permission to do so. The rules work two ways.

The OTColored page includes a column for artist name for this and other reasons. GLR could PM artists if he'd like to.
This could be lovely, but frankly I don't think he would.

charlie_grumbles wrote:If I take his art and change one pixel from FF to FE does that make it mine to license how I please?


Yes!

If I change one pixel, I can ask that no one will copy my new creation with that one pixel, and to copyright my change (theoretically. Usually the change should be significant, but even one pixel can be significant)

Now, I still can't change the license of the original frame, but you wouldn't be able to print a shirt with BlitzGirl's colorifications without her permission since it's copyrighted by default.
Even GLR can't sell shirts with her (re: BlitzGirl's) creations, since she is allowed to change the license. He can't even print one for himself.

In practice I have a hunch that that exact situation wouldn't pose a problem.
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