Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

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Re: Avatar: The Last Hairbender & Legend of Korra

Postby moiraemachy » Sat Sep 21, 2013 9:15 pm UTC

Am I missing something, or is the "Korra's dad is the tribe's leader" thing a complete retcon? I had the distinct impression that they were average, down-to-earth south tribe inhabitants from the itty bit of characterization they get in the first episode.

Anyway, regarding "what made the TLA great and why LOK is screwing up"
Spoiler:
IMO the world-building is the series' greatest asset. And the world-building in LOK is also great, but the plot does not capitalize on it as TLA did. TLA was a goddamn epic in which the world could be depicted with large or intricate strokes. LOK's first season couldn't capitalize on it because there was simply too much going on. Not exploring the various social strata of republic city, their subcultures and the root of the equalist movement was just a waste.

Now, regarding real life parallels, you can always go with spirits = environment, I guess? If they are trying to make a real life parallel, this is the one that makes sense... though I don't think so. My (very pessimistic) opinion is that they the creators are just throwing red herrings, trying (too hard) to subvert expectations, to get a show that lives up to TLA's fame of being actually quite deep despite being aimed at children.

I wonder if the current theme of "unresolved familiar conflicts" will be dropped. The exposition about it was so blunt that I think they are trying to get it out of the way as fast as possible.

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Re: Avatar: The Last Hairbender & Legend of Korra

Postby Djehutynakht » Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:25 am UTC

Well... let me see.

It was a bit of a retcon:

How I see it:

(Spoilered just as a precaution. I'll give it a few more episodes before I judge it something to talk freely of)

Spoiler:
I don't think he's the tribe's official leader, per say, because he only came there... what? 4 years before Korra was born? There is obviously a large palace for the "Chieftains" (implying there's multiple ones) and he wasn't in it.

Although I don't think he's their official political leader, my guess is that he does in fact have some social prominence. For one, he's a great general and former heir to the Northern Chiefdom, even if he was banished. And secondly, he's the Avatar's father. Which must count for something.

He does try to live, it seems, modestly humbly. So my guess is he's simply well-respected. Just like Katara, even though she seems to be in a very retired role here, is probably revered as a very important person in the South for many reasons, and I'd be interested in hearing her opinions on this new update.



Anyways, with regards to the show, I think they're trying, but we may have to wait a bit longer to see it fall together. I do like where they're going with the whole "revolution" theme (and of course there's hearkening to the American Revolution, and others as well, with the occupation and the resistance led in part by significant businessmen.

Korra's response is... perplexing, at least. I'm very wholly surprised she didn't freak out at her uncle upon seeing an occupation, which clearly isn't the most just thing on Earth (is there a real reason to restrict merchant ships?). Which indicates she's confused.

The whole Ikki running away thing was.. a bit perplexing and out of nowhere. I was intrigued by the Jinora subplot from the last episode... but I suppose they're just going to wait to resume that one for a little while. I was wondering if Ikki's disappearance was a bit of a continuation of that, but now I'm guessing it's mostly to focus on the Tenzin-Bumi-Kya relationship, which is interesting (also, I swore Bumi was also a waterbender. I swore). Which I think is an interesting aspect, both into the present day and to Aang and Katara's family life after the war. I heard some whiffs about them not being the most perfect parents... so let's see how this turns out.

Waiting on the Jinora subplot once more.

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Re: Avatar: The Last Hairbender & Legend of Korra

Postby Diadem » Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:08 am UTC

spoilered response to previous two posts:

Spoiler:
In the first episode Korra's family lived in an iglo in the middle of nowhere, and even the place where Korra trained with Katara seemed quite small. Now there's suddenly huge palaces all around, and Korra's father is actually living in a big city. If that's not a retcon I don't know what is. The whole "I'm the son of the chieftain" also came out of nowhere.

I found the Tenzin-Bumi-Kya rivalry trite and boring. It was escalated ridiculously quickly and for very little reason. Also, literally the first time I became aware that Bumi wasn't a bender was when Tenzin and Kya started viciously mocking him for it. That was a weird reveal, and also out of character for Tenzin and Kya. And the "Aang was a horrible father" retcon felt like a slap in the face for TLA. What the fuck.

But most of all Korra is a horrible main character. She is stupid, boring, entirely predictable and downright mean to her friends and family. I hope she gets killed off soon.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Hairbender & Legend of Korra

Postby Isaac Hill » Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:01 am UTC

Korra Book 2, Ep 3:
Spoiler:
One of the biggest problems with this season is the haphazard pacing. Korra's story is moving too quickly. There's no time for one event to sink in, or its aftermath to be fully explored, before the next thing happens. The occupation, incident with the snowball kids, kidnapping attempt and arrest of Korra's parents all happened in one episode that also had B and C plots going on. It's just major event, then major event, then major event, then... Bolin having an awkward date. It's hard to get too involved in the main story when there's a break for a romantic comedy or family drama every few minutes.

As for world building, one of the few criticisms I've heard of AtLA is that the early episodes relied too much on the Villiage of the Week format, but from watching LoK, that really helped. If you're in a different town every episode, you have to put some effort into distinguishing each town so they don't blend together. Since a Book of LoK (or at least, Korra's part of it) seems to take place in one location, there's no need to distinguish that location, so there's no effort put into defining it.

I don't see an issue with the consistency of Korra's father's status. He could have moved to the south to start his life over, not mentioning his former status in the north, and lived in the humble igloo we see when Korra's a child. When teenage Korra leaves to go to Republic City, her parents are living in the middle of nowhere, but that would be because that's where the White Lotus set up their training facility as part of their isolate-the-avatar program. Once Korra moved to Republic City, her parents woudn't have any reason to continue living at the training facility, so it would make sense for them to move to the south pole city. Being the parents of the Avatar would give them high social standing.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Hairbender & Legend of Korra

Postby Izawwlgood » Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:44 am UTC

I also believe it was mentioned by Tenzin in S1 that one of his siblings isn't a Bender. Kya was the sibling that wasn't mentioned at all aside from on the websites lore section.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Hairbender & Legend of Korra

Postby Diadem » Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:26 pm UTC

So I just watched E4.

Damn, Korra is dumber than a box full of stupid.

Other things I learned: Abusive relationships are hilarious, and totally fine for kid's shows, as long as the victim is male.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Hairbender & Legend of Korra

Postby Angua » Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:47 pm UTC

Diadem wrote:So I just watched E4.

Damn, Korra is dumber than a box full of stupid.

Other things I learned: Abusive relationships are hilarious, and totally fine for kid's shows, as long as the victim is male.

Yeah, I feel pretty uncomfortable with the way they're treating poor Bolin and not helping out of that relationship.

Spoiler:
I want to know how that judge knew about the uncle paying off the barbarians. They didn't seem to be that great of friends for it to be something he'd give up so easily, so why did he know?
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Re: Avatar: The Last Hairbender & Legend of Korra

Postby Angua » Sat Oct 05, 2013 11:14 am UTC

Bump for new episode
Spoiler:
I was routing for Mako to stand up for himself, and I'm glad that he did. I feel really sorry for poor Bolin - it looks like this is going to be a running theme throughout the show.

I am thinking that the Agni Kai tried to provoke the president into sending his troops to the South so that they could take the opportunity to attack Republic city.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Hairbender & Legend of Korra

Postby Thadlerian » Sun Oct 06, 2013 2:20 pm UTC

Carefully more optimistic again now, after episode 5. Lots of stuff happening in one episode indicating efficient storytelling, which we haven't had much of in either season. Still not much hope for Bolin's character development.
Spoiler:
Why does Eska think Korra stole Bolin? Was that just to sneak in a fight scene by the end? How come Korra can spiritbend while in the avatar state?

Also, the Southern Water Tribe cultural thing was bombed, but so what? What are the consequences? What was the building used for, and what happens now that it has been burned? How do people react? Anger? Sadness? Again, the creators can't be bothered with showing us ordinary people.

Calling this:
Spoiler:
The spirit eating Korra is actually the spirit world trying to contact her, which Unalaq previously has prevented.

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Re: Avatar: The Last Hairbender & Legend of Korra

Postby Izawwlgood » Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:20 pm UTC

So constantly disappointed in Korra and the general communication skills of everyone in this show.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Hairbender & Legend of Korra

Postby Zohar » Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:34 pm UTC

Spoiler:
She's doing the water-spirit bending thing Unalaq used, she learned it from him.

And yeah, it definitely looks like monster will be a vehicle for her to go into the spirit world, but I dunno that it's benevolent or thinking. I doubt they'll explain exactly why the monster was there.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Hairbender & Legend of Korra

Postby Diadem » Sun Oct 06, 2013 8:20 pm UTC

Spoiler:
Eh, the monster was clearly sent by Unalaq or by Desna or Eska. Desna and Eska clearly considered their mission accomplished after Korra was 'eaten', so the monster was obviously part of their plan.

They are probably going to try to force Korra into opening the Northern Spirit Portal, or something like that
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Re: Avatar: The Last Hairbender & Legend of Korra

Postby Izawwlgood » Sun Oct 06, 2013 9:39 pm UTC

Spoiler:
I dunno, they looked just as surprised as she was. I don't think it was part of their plan at all.

As for the bombing, I'm more surprised people are being so idiotic to jump to conclusions about who was behind it. Mako saw a firebender flee and use a detonator. It seems profoundly un-Lin like to let that go.

The thing that constantly amazes me about Korra as opposed to TLA is that miscommunication gets them into trouble, but finally communicating never solves anything. In TLA, the conflicts were often centered around people not communicating, and Aang figuring out a way to communicate and bring a peaceful solution. I get that Korra isn't an Air Nomad, but her constant approach to everything is just SMASHHARDER. Homegirl has zero finesse, which was fine in the beginning of the first season, but she hasn't changed at all.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Hairbender & Legend of Korra

Postby Isaac Hill » Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:47 am UTC

Ep 4 and 5 were the first episodes of Korra Book 2 that I actually enjoyed. Book 1, I'd check the website a few days after an episode aired so I could watch it again. I didn't bother for the first 3 episodes this season. Everything still seems a bit perfunctory, though.
Spoiler:
In Ep 4, was Tenzin and Ikki's lesson about family always being there for you meant to be an ironic counterpoint to learning that Unalaq's been ruining his brother's life for decades, or was that just a coincidence?

In Ep 5, when Verrick tells Bolin he'd figured out his "true calling", I thought, "Finally, someone involved in this show has an idea of what to do with Bolin". Verrick's upbeat personality and corrupting influence on Korra, Bolin and Asami has been pretty fun to watch. He's like if the Cat in the Hat were a war profiteer.

I didn't get the impression that Desna and Eska expected the spirit to show up. But, they didn't seem at all frightened of the spirit, either. Maybe the spirits are acting on Unalaq's behalf, so the twins know not to fear them, but the twins aren't kept in the loop as to Unalaq's specific plans?
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Re: Avatar: The Last Hairbender & Legend of Korra

Postby Djehutynakht » Sat Oct 12, 2013 6:13 am UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:
Spoiler:
I dunno, they looked just as surprised as she was. I don't think it was part of their plan at all.

As for the bombing, I'm more surprised people are being so idiotic to jump to conclusions about who was behind it. Mako saw a firebender flee and use a detonator. It seems profoundly un-Lin like to let that go.


Spoiler:
First, with regards to the twins... the utter lack of emotion they excel at portraying (not portraying?) leaves me somewhat unclear of where they stand. I do think that they were surprised and not expecting the monster. I assume they just sort of went, in their logical way "Well, target we were following was just taken by a giant spirit. It seems there is literally nothing we can do here. We should go back and report this".

Speaking of which... the hell is with Eska having these secret emotions? Could it be possible that they have some sort of repressed personalities somewhere? Or is she just freaking insane? Even so, nothing I've before seen hints at the way she's totally flipped over Bolin.

As to the second part of the Izawwlgood quote above... it is profoundly "un-Lin like". But I think there lies the problem. I don't think this information is actually getting to Lin. We saw this whole chain-of-command thing in the office and it seems like mid-level officers are sort of preventing her from seeing the valuable info Mako is uncovering in favor of presenting an easy conclusion. If she knew, I suspect she'd be on the hunt.

There were some funny moments in this one. The whole Platypus-Bear thing was... something else. The whole Iron Triangle/War Profiteering thing was a bit so blatantly obvious and at the same time so awesome to fit in.

I'm not entirely sure what's going to happen. The whole modern theme still perplexes me... if there's another book after Korra I think they need to go back earlier in time... or at least cut down on the large amounts of blatant technology. It's just not exactly what I came for.

Anyways... few things:

1. I seriously want to see what Katara's role in this whole Southern Occupation is. She may be old, but I'm assuming she's still powerful and I highly doubt she'd let this slide without a fight.

2. Very interested in seeing this new meeting with the Firelord... if it should happen. She is clouded in mystery. Also, I've heard fan-rumors of Zuko possibly still being alive (despite earlier claims Katara was the last surviving member of the original team). I would definitely like to see old sage Zuko have a hand here.

3. Dammit... spirit stuff happening in the temple. Come back please.

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Re: Avatar: The Last Hairbender & Legend of Korra

Postby Angua » Sat Oct 12, 2013 12:37 pm UTC

Spoiler:
I must say, it didn't surprise me that Verrick was the one behind the Centre attack, but I am surprised that he would go as far as destroy Asami so he could take over.

Also, did anyone else think it was interesting that when Korra wakes up, the first thing she does is Airbend?
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Re: Avatar: The Last Hairbender & Legend of Korra

Postby Isaac Hill » Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:58 pm UTC

While talking about suspense, Alfred Hitchcock said that if you had a bomb go off in a room without warning, the audience would only have a brief reaction of surprise. But, if you show the bomb to the audience before the characters know about it, the audience will become emotionally invested in whether or not the characters find the bomb (or leave the room) before it goes off. This seems like something the creators of this show used to know, but forgot.

In previous books, we'd get scenes of Zuko, Azula, or Amon setting their plans in motion, and then get all excited wondering how Team Avatar would deal with them. Now, we pretty much learn things as the protagonists do. There's no anticipation, just patiently waiting to be told what's going on. Specifically, I'm thinking of Book 2, Ep 6:
Spoiler:
Verrick ordering the bombing and screwing Asami out of her company. We never saw him not being wacky in front of people, so we don't know how much of it is an act. I don't mind being fooled about Varrick's true nature, but I would have liked to have the truth revealed to me before it was revealed to Mako.

We got that one scene of Unalaq and the Spirit World portal, but I don't know enough about Unalaq's plan or the Spirit World itself to know what to make of it, other than a reminder that Unalaq exists and is bad. Contrast that with AtLA Book 2, when we see that the alleged Kyoshi warriors are actually Azula, Mai and Ty Lee well before the Gaang figures that out. We then get to watch Azula take over the Dai Li and Ba Sing Se. It would have been far less satisying to think, like the Gaang did, that those were actual Kyoshi warriors until the reveal that Ba Sing Se was lost.


I don't think Lin's behaving out of character. She's always come off as a by-the-book hardass. The first time we saw her, she'd arrested the Avatar for vigilantism and Tenzin had to get Korra released. Plus, Mako isn't just bypassing the chain of command, he's barging in on her, without knocking, while she's doing something important. Twice. If he'd just wait outside the door until she was done and then ask her for a few minutes, he'd probably have better luck.

Maybe Korra's amnesia will cause her to forget that she's a jerk.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Hairbender & Legend of Korra

Postby moiraemachy » Sat Oct 12, 2013 10:27 pm UTC

Spoiler:
Funny that the season's best episode so far was the one without Korra.
I'm somewhat excited again: last episodes' plot didn't feel forced to me. I actually really liked how Verrick was handled: there were some hints of his nature, as when he tried to bribe a judge, when he suggested Asami to sell weapons for the war, his willingness to manipulate the public with movies... it was clear that he wasn't completely good, but chaotic neutral was a possibility. It seems to me that this ambiguity was definitely intended.
It still feels as if they're trying too hard to make it "mature", but at least they seem to be doing it properly now. I just hope they don't screw it up by solving the Verrick plot too fast.
Also, wild guess:
Spoiler:
Koh the face stealer is behind what is going on. Because awesome. Seriously, if I were to milk the franchise he'd be my first pick.

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Re: Avatar: The Last Hairbender & Legend of Korra

Postby Diadem » Sun Oct 13, 2013 12:28 am UTC

The summary of the previous episode annoyed me:

"Attack on the southern water tribe cultural centre. All the evidence points towards the northern water tribe, but mako has his doubts".

No it doesn't! There's absolutely no evidence pointing towards the northern water tribe - at least none that we've seen. Everybody just assumed it was them for absolutely no reason.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Hairbender & Legend of Korra

Postby Joeldi » Sun Oct 13, 2013 8:33 am UTC

I'm increasingly disappointed with each passing episode. Episode 4 and 5 were looking a bit better than the first three episodes, but the Ep 6 came along and it all went downhill again. There's scenes that I swear have been ripped wholly from other works out there. Dialogue, character actions everything seems just so god damn cliche.

Ep 6
Spoiler:
When it suddenly seems like Varrick is an antagonist, I groaned, because god, we've seen that before, and because I liked him as comic relief. Then I decided that actually, no, we're supposed to think it's Varrick, and it turns out to be Ju-li, who's doing this to screw Varrick over somehow or other because he treats her like shit.

But you know what, even if that is the case, I'm still going to groan, because even then it's been done a thousand times before.

As for Korra waking up with Amnesia. Oh god, not another amnesia plot. I was hoping it would at least turn out that there's another avatar in her head right now. But nope. She's just got amnesia. Urgh.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Hairbender & Legend of Korra

Postby Thadlerian » Sun Oct 13, 2013 10:00 am UTC

By and large, I liked the latest episode. It's like the writers are getting their shit together and have decided to write more about the characters this time around. Still problems, though:
Spoiler:
How could Varrick simply walk away with all those tanks and planes without anyone noticing? Aren't there any guards or anything? Surely, Mako and Asami's presence in the city can't have been the only factor enabling/preventing the theft of the products? I appreciate how the creators aim to make LoK more mature in practice as well as in name, but they really need to deal with this kind of silliness first. Police? Guards? Citizens?

But then again, fundamental plausibility issues like these were the main plot holes in The Dark Knight (Batman) too, so I don't know.

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Re: Avatar: The Last Hairbender & Legend of Korra

Postby The Mighty Thesaurus » Sun Oct 13, 2013 3:22 pm UTC

I love everything about Book 2 without exception.

The only exception is Korra herself.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Hairbender & Legend of Korra

Postby Zohar » Sat Oct 19, 2013 4:32 pm UTC

OK, wow. The latest episode was amazing. I just want to learn more about Wan, let go completely of Korra's story! Of course that won't happen.
Spoiler:
I'm a bit worried this story contradicts the origin of bending stories in A:TLA. Didn't the lionturtle there say that before humans bended the elements, they bended energy? I guess specifically the origin of firebending isn't troubled here - Wan learned it from a dragon. But how will this work with earthbending, for instance? Wan isn't a woman, how can that conform with the secret tunnel story?


Edit: Did anyone else get a very strong Spirited Away vibe from this episode? And the thing he was riding really reminded me of the deer in Princess Mononoke.

Edit2: ZOMG they aired two episodes at once and I just saw the first! Woohoo, more of Wan's story!
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Re: Avatar: The Last Hairbender & Legend of Korra

Postby Angua » Sat Oct 19, 2013 6:59 pm UTC

I really enjoyed this one a lot more than the Korra ones.
Spoiler:
It wouldn't surprise me to find out that the stories about the origins of bending aren't exactly true - especially now that we know that humans have been able to do it for 10 000 years. I bet that in the stories you got someone who got more refined and really good and beautiful with their art by following the respective teachers.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Hairbender & Legend of Korra

Postby Izawwlgood » Sat Oct 19, 2013 8:00 pm UTC

The Lionturtle part felt a bit of a retcon, given what the Lionturtle told Aang. Although, I'm curious about the fact that there were 'dozens' of Lionturtle cities out there; what else were they bending?

Still, it took Legend of Korra a season and a half to finally tell a good two story episode. This was well done.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Hairbender & Legend of Korra

Postby Zohar » Sat Oct 19, 2013 9:30 pm UTC

Maybe the other lionturtles were bending the same elements.

I guess it doesn't contradict that energy bending was earlier (evidently the lionturtles do it all the time), but it does contradict the bending origin stories. Maybe it's as you said, Angua.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Hairbender & Legend of Korra

Postby Izawwlgood » Sat Oct 19, 2013 9:45 pm UTC

Zohar wrote:Maybe the other lionturtles were bending the same elements.
Yeah, I had that thought too, which would of course be possible.

Zohar wrote: it does contradict the bending origin stories.
Conversely, the forms could have been codified by those individuals.


Did anyone else notice Wan and a few of his friends had golden eyes? I may be imagining things, but it seemed to me like the people we saw had a smattering of the ethnic characteristics of the four nations? Wan and a few of his friends had golden eyes, for example.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Hairbender & Legend of Korra

Postby Angua » Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:17 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:Did anyone else notice Wan and a few of his friends had golden eyes? I may be imagining things, but it seemed to me like the people we saw had a smattering of the ethnic characteristics of the four nations? Wan and a few of his friends had golden eyes, for example.

I'm pretty sure that they did. The airbenders wore similar clothes to the monks as well.

Also, Wan got his abilities in the order of the avatar cycle.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Hairbender & Legend of Korra

Postby Izawwlgood » Sat Oct 19, 2013 11:30 pm UTC

Oh, how did the Fire Priest lady know about the harmonic thingamagigit? It doesn't seem like Wan's story is remotely known, as it's ~10,000 years in the past. Kind of coincidental that it's happening right now...

Really great story though. Unalok must be hearing whispers of bad spirit dude. I thought Wan's last scene was really well done.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Hairbender & Legend of Korra

Postby moiraemachy » Sun Oct 20, 2013 12:27 am UTC

Mixed feelings. Episodes were awesome buut... not sure if this is a good direction to take. My two cents:
Spoiler:
Midi-chlorians.

Also, they always made the world feel so vast until the Wan arc, so it hurt my suspension of disbelief how everything revolved around him.

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Re: Avatar: The Last Hairbender & Legend of Korra

Postby Izawwlgood » Sun Oct 20, 2013 1:31 am UTC

We already know that there's some kind of genetic component to bending. Anyone can't just bend; there's some genetic component.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Hairbender & Legend of Korra

Postby Isaac Hill » Sun Oct 20, 2013 2:32 am UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:Oh, how did the Fire Priest lady know about the harmonic thingamagigit? It doesn't seem like Wan's story is remotely known, as it's ~10,000 years in the past. Kind of coincidental that it's happening right now...
The harmonic convergence coincides with the planets aligning, and the Fire Nation got pretty good at astronomy tracking when Sozin's Comet would return. Even if Wan's story's been forgotten, Korra probably told Fire Priest lady about what she saw, and they were able to figure it out. And it may not be a coincidence. Korra's vision was brought on by amnesia induced by an attack from a dark spirit, who may be acting up due to the upcoming convergence. Anyway, it's no more coincidental than Aang waking up a few months nefore Sozin's Comet returns.

I didn't notice the eyes, but the soldiers Wan got fire with did have top-knots. Did anyone else think the pre-air nomad tattoos looked like the signs on the doors of men' rooms?

With dozens of lion turtles, there's probably some redundancy. I wonder if there were 4 types of LTs for the 4 elements, 7 types for the 7 chakras, or some other number.

Spoilered for more specific/plot relevant details of Korra Book 2, Ep 7/8
Spoiler:
This may not contradict the previous bedning origins. In the first part, we see Wan practicing fire with a dragon, then fending off other humans from his village. One of the humans has a voiceover saying something like, "I'd never seen anything like it before. It was like the fire was an extension of his own body." Towards the end of the second part, a lion turtle says, "Our time protecting humans is over. We will no longer give humans the power of the elements."

Now the humans know manipulating elements is possible, can't currently do it, and are wandering the world freely for the first time. As they explore, they come across dragons, sky bison or badger moles manipulating the elements (or notice the moon's effect on the tides). It would probably occur to some of the humans to try to study those manipulators to regain their lost abilities. Especially if those soldiers Wan fought saw a dragon and noticed the similarities between its moves and Wan's.


moiraemachy: I had the opposite reaction. Barring the first episode or two of Book 1, where Korra runs around Republic City fishing and fighting crime, I'd always felt LoK's world seemed rather small. There'd be a few main set pieces, like the arena, and a bunch of generic settings, like docks and warehouses. Seeing Wan explore the world, even if partially in montage, finally gave me the sense that the world was more than a few blocks. You're right about the Wan arc revolving around him, but it was told from his perspective, so that's to be expected.


These two eps were by far my favorites of LoK Book 2. I don't think it bodes well for my future enjoyment of the show that the only part of these eps I didn't like was when the titular protagonist regained consciousness.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Hairbender & Legend of Korra

Postby Izawwlgood » Sun Oct 20, 2013 3:05 am UTC

Oh curious, that wasn't my interpretation at all; I took it as a sign that all subsequent benders were the descendents of those who were given the gift of the elements. Hence Wan and a few of his friends golden eyes, like the Fire Nation royal family.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Hairbender & Legend of Korra

Postby Diadem » Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:19 pm UTC

That's three good episodes in a row. Pretty nice.

Korra continues to get free character development without ever having to do anything for it, though. I did not like that.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Hairbender & Legend of Korra

Postby Djehutynakht » Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:18 am UTC

I think Korra is in a way supposed to emulate Wan... a little bit. I mean... he had his imperfections. I mean, of course he wasn't as bad as many others (he did share, he was maybe a little arrogant) but the general view is that humans... weren't viewed as ideal. Even those well intentioned (Wan's friends) didn't necessarily... get it right.

And I think this is getting a little bit back to Korra. She... should be getting better after this, I think. I think this was the grand realization point for her. In a way. I think she's supposed to come about after this.

As for the bending.... I think that there is a difference between gaining the power and learning to use it well. I noticed that when they requested an element, they said "Please grant me the element of...". They never requested a bending ability. Just raw power. And then of course we saw that there was a difference between their power usage (raw and untamed) verses Wan's (refined and informed), because Wan had learned from the spirits which knew it as well. My guess is as time went by, element-holders learned how to refine their abilities, and this became "bending".

Sort of an analogy... if I give you a car, you have a car, and you can hit the gas pedal and such, but you're likely going to hit a tree. You have the ability to operate a car... but not really to drive. But by finding an accomplished driver... you can learn from them how to truly drive. It's the difference between gliding along smoothly and spiraling into a tree.

If that fails to explain... well... Imagine how many things we've twisted up over the last 10,000 years.

Anyways... the Wan story was awesome. Wouldn't mind going deeper, but we should return to Korra's story. I have a feeling it's going to be great. But Wan later.

Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Oh holy s---

I just realized.

Last episode. "The Sting".

Unalaq was in the Spirit world. That means he was probably with Vaatu... This just got interesting.

Also, apparently the Avatars kinda forgot Raava was there. Or, at least, they stopped talking...

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Re: Avatar: The Last Hairbender & Legend of Korra

Postby Zohar » Mon Oct 21, 2013 12:57 pm UTC

Yeah, the common theory is the turtles gave the humans bending, but then they learned it from their respective animals/inanimate objects.

I also figured the bending humans of today are descendants of those who received their powers from the turtles.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Hairbender & Legend of Korra

Postby Angua » Mon Oct 21, 2013 1:42 pm UTC

Of course, in 10 000years, basically everyone is going to be descended from benders and non-benders.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Hairbender & Legend of Korra

Postby Izawwlgood » Mon Oct 21, 2013 1:59 pm UTC

Angua wrote:Of course, in 10 000years, basically everyone is going to be descended from benders and non-benders.
Yeah, the idea being I suppose that humans all lived in the lionturtle cities, and after handfuls of humans were granted the elements for good, they forged out and other humans, who hadn't been granted the elements, followed.

I don't understand why the lion turtles would grant them power to go kill spirits, but the Air Nomads seemed to be doing it right; simply gathering from the countryside, and using bending for their protection and safety.

Incidentally, I think the character arc Wan went through, while great, is kind of overused in the series; kind arrogance to responsible savior.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Hairbender & Legend of Korra

Postby Zohar » Mon Oct 21, 2013 2:00 pm UTC

Hah, true. :) I was referring more that this is what created the original distinction, and bending has its origins there, and not people learning it otherwise.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Hairbender & Legend of Korra

Postby Diadem » Mon Oct 21, 2013 2:00 pm UTC

Angua wrote:Of course, in significantly less than 10 000years, basically everybody is going to be descended from benders and non-benders everybody else.

Fixed that for you.

If bending is genetic, the 'bending' gene for a particular element can be passed on without every descendant of benders necessarily getting it. So at first glance that makes sense. But if bending is genetic, it should be far more common. Bending offers a very clear survival benefit, so if it's genetic its gene should be pretty universal by now. And if it's genetic, it's unclear how the turtles could have given humans bending. And finally, bending being genetic does not explain why no one (except the avatar) can bend several elements.

So 'magic' still makes more sense :)

I like the idea though of lion turtles giving humans bending, but humans mastering it by studying the various sources mentioned in ATLA. I have only one question: Where did all the lion turtles go? They didn't go through the spirit portal like all the other spirits. Actually it's strongly implied that they aren't spirits themselves (though related, since the one in ATLA brought Aang to the spirit world?). So where did they go? Hiding in the deep seas?

As for humans energy bending before learning how to bend the elements. Perhaps that was even further in the past. Perhaps humans could energy bend in the very distant past, forgot this knowledge somehow, and that is why the turtles started protecting humans and giving them elemental bending powers. It could even have to do something with why there are so many spirits in the physical world anyway, since it's implied that there was a time long before Wan when that wasn't the case. Somehow those spirit portals got constructed / opened.
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