1301: "File Extensions"

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BlitzGirl
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Re: 1301: "File Extensions"

Postby BlitzGirl » Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:24 am UTC

mscha has a list of all of the current H-series store banners:

mscha wrote:Yes, we switched from “series g” to “series h”!
Here's what I now get in 1000 attempts:
Spoiler:
h0: Image: 87x
h1: Image: 88x
h2: Image: 83x
h3: Image: 91x
h4: Image: 97x
h5: Image: 84x
h6: Image: 86x
h7: Image: 103x
h8: Image: 84x
h9: Image: 92x
h10: Image: 105x
ETA: looks like the GLR is testing the effect of drop shadow...
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Spoiler:
Image
Image
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~.Image~.FAQ->Image

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Re: 1301: "File Extensions"

Postby orthogon » Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:12 pm UTC

Eternal Density wrote:I sometimes receive bug reports in the form of a screenshot inside a .docx file. Maybe they're trying to dress up their .png as something slightly more trustworthy.

Whoah, how do you get a screenshot straight into a png file in Windows? I do Ctrl-Alt-Shift-PrintScreen to get it onto the clipboard, but then I have to paste it somewhere. Word deals nicely with pasted images, sizing them to fit the page, and it's easy to add a brief description of what it shows. To make an image file, what do you paste into? Paint? Is there an easier way? It might have been do-able with the clipboard viewer, but Microsoft in their infinite wisdom seem to have removed that in Win7 (it was pretty arcane and unusable anyway, from what I remember). Seriously I hope I'm one of today's lucky 10,000.

Pseudo-edit: I am one of today's lucky 10,000! I just discovered "Snipping Tool"!
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1301: "File Extensions"

Postby Klear » Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:39 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:
Eternal Density wrote:I sometimes receive bug reports in the form of a screenshot inside a .docx file. Maybe they're trying to dress up their .png as something slightly more trustworthy.

Whoah, how do you get a screenshot straight into a png file in Windows? I do Ctrl-Alt-Shift-PrintScreen to get it onto the clipboard, but then I have to paste it somewhere. Word deals nicely with pasted images, sizing them to fit the page, and it's easy to add a brief description of what it shows. To make an image file, what do you paste into? Paint? Is there an easier way? It might have been do-able with the clipboard viewer, but Microsoft in their infinite wisdom seem to have removed that in Win7 (it was pretty arcane and unusable anyway, from what I remember). Seriously I hope I'm one of today's lucky 10,000.

Pseudo-edit: I am one of today's lucky 10,000! I just discovered "Snipping Tool"!


I usually have an empty png/bmp laying on the desktop for this purpose - opening it launches irfan, which reports an error and lets me paste the screenshot into a new file, which I can then save as whatever I want. And then I again forget to delete the empty file.

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Re: 1301: "File Extensions"

Postby orthogon » Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:02 pm UTC

Klear wrote:
orthogon wrote:
Eternal Density wrote:I sometimes receive bug reports in the form of a screenshot inside a .docx file. Maybe they're trying to dress up their .png as something slightly more trustworthy.

Whoah, how do you get a screenshot straight into a png file in Windows? I do Ctrl-Alt-Shift-PrintScreen to get it onto the clipboard, but then I have to paste it somewhere. Word deals nicely with pasted images, sizing them to fit the page, and it's easy to add a brief description of what it shows. To make an image file, what do you paste into? Paint? Is there an easier way? It might have been do-able with the clipboard viewer, but Microsoft in their infinite wisdom seem to have removed that in Win7 (it was pretty arcane and unusable anyway, from what I remember). Seriously I hope I'm one of today's lucky 10,000.

Pseudo-edit: I am one of today's lucky 10,000! I just discovered "Snipping Tool"!


I usually have an empty png/bmp laying on the desktop for this purpose - opening it launches irfan, which reports an error and lets me paste the screenshot into a new file, which I can then save as whatever I want. And then I again forget to delete the empty file.

I can haz pasting in Irfanview? :o
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1301: "File Extensions"

Postby Klear » Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:23 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:
Klear wrote:I usually have an empty png/bmp laying on the desktop for this purpose - opening it launches irfan, which reports an error and lets me paste the screenshot into a new file, which I can then save as whatever I want. And then I again forget to delete the empty file.

I can haz pasting in Irfanview? :o


Yes! I've found out only a couple of weeks ago. Until then it had to be a bmp, I'd right-click it and choose edit, so I wouldn't get irfan. When I forgot about it, I was pissed, until the day I pressed ctrl+v anyway and it worked. Also, cropping is much easier there so that's what I do now =)

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Re: 1301: "File Extensions"

Postby Steve the Pocket » Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:12 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:Pseudo-edit: I am one of today's lucky 10,000! I just discovered "Snipping Tool"!

So that's what that does. I noticed it when I installed Windows 7 for the first time, in the Start Menu's default quick list or whatever that's called. But I had no real interest in finding out what an app with that name could be. Handy.
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Re: 1301: "File Extensions"

Postby Pfhorrest » Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:39 am UTC

Eternal Density wrote:I sometimes receive bug reports in the form of a screenshot inside a .docx file. Maybe they're trying to dress up their .png as something slightly more trustworthy.

I work a graphic design job where I often have to receive preexisting art from customers, such as a logo or an idea sketch or something. I cannot count (well I could, but it would just make me angry) the number of times someone has sent me a single raster image in a .doc. Or worse still, a .ppt. The PowerPoints I can understand if they actually drew something in there because that's the only shitty graphics tool they've ever heard of (ugh, I actually worked under someone whose main "graphics" experience was PowerPoint once, which was actually the first time I'd ever heard of the idea of anyone using it for such), but when it's obviously something which was just a JPEG before, especially when it's obviously (or explicitly stated to be) something they grabbed from Google Image Search or something... Why? What was wrong with the file you had before, that you had to go and cram it into a shitty container format which adds nothing but unnecessary steps for me to get to it?

On the other end of the spectrum, there are people who send me AI files. And when I get an EPS, then I know I'm dealing with someone who knows their shit.

Until the spectrum wraps all the way around the other end, and I get an AI or an EPS which contains nothing but a single raster image object. What... how... why.....

Actually, the file format most indicative of a customer who knows their elbow from their asshole is CDR, because only old-school gray-haired graphic design nerds from the days before being a graphic design nerd was cool still use Corel these days.
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Re: 1301: "File Extensions"

Postby Thorbard9 » Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:42 pm UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:
Eternal Density wrote:I sometimes receive bug reports in the form of a screenshot inside a .docx file. Maybe they're trying to dress up their .png as something slightly more trustworthy.

I work a graphic design job where I often have to receive preexisting art from customers, such as a logo or an idea sketch or something. I cannot count (well I could, but it would just make me angry) the number of times someone has sent me a single raster image in a .doc. Or worse still, a .ppt. The PowerPoints I can understand if they actually drew something in there because that's the only shitty graphics tool they've ever heard of (ugh, I actually worked under someone whose main "graphics" experience was PowerPoint once, which was actually the first time I'd ever heard of the idea of anyone using it for such), but when it's obviously something which was just a JPEG before, especially when it's obviously (or explicitly stated to be) something they grabbed from Google Image Search or something... Why? What was wrong with the file you had before, that you had to go and cram it into a shitty container format which adds nothing but unnecessary steps for me to get to it?

On the other end of the spectrum, there are people who send me AI files. And when I get an EPS, then I know I'm dealing with someone who knows their shit.

Until the spectrum wraps all the way around the other end, and I get an AI or an EPS which contains nothing but a single raster image object. What... how... why.....

Actually, the file format most indicative of a customer who knows their elbow from their asshole is CDR, because only old-school gray-haired graphic design nerds from the days before being a graphic design nerd was cool still use Corel these days.


When I was at university studying Automotive Engineering, we had to produce a poster as part of a presentation package. The university print office told me to use powerpoint to design the poster with no other explanation. I then asked some questions about printing (colours and papers and suchlike) and was impolitely informed that large format printing was not like normal printing and my concerns were irrelevant.

I immediately left the office and located the independently operated printing service located within the faculty of art and design, where they were able to answer all my questions, specify their preferred file format for printing from, and even gave me the opportunity to check it on their colour balanced monitors before getting it printed.

And it was cheaper.

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Re: 1301: "File Extensions"

Postby dalcde » Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:44 pm UTC

Thorbard9 wrote:When I was at university studying Automotive Engineering, we had to produce a poster as part of a presentation package. The university print office told me to use powerpoint to design the poster with no other explanation. I then asked some questions about printing (colours and papers and suchlike) and was impolitely informed that large format printing was not like normal printing and my concerns were irrelevant.

I immediately left the office and located the independently operated printing service located within the faculty of art and design, where they were able to answer all my questions, specify their preferred file format for printing from, and even gave me the opportunity to check it on their colour balanced monitors before getting it printed.

And it was cheaper.

Well they're engineers

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Re: 1301: "File Extensions"

Postby Pfhorrest » Fri Dec 13, 2013 2:45 am UTC

Who are engineers? The faculty of art and design printing service? I'd expect them to be artists (albeit probably technically adept ones if they're operating the print tech). The university print office? I'd expect them to be... office drones who'd be lucky to find their asses with both hands, which sounds like the case here. The only people mentioned to be engineers in this story were Thorbard and his class.
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Re: 1301: "File Extensions"

Postby xkcdfan » Fri Dec 13, 2013 6:20 am UTC

Klear wrote:
orthogon wrote:
Eternal Density wrote:I sometimes receive bug reports in the form of a screenshot inside a .docx file. Maybe they're trying to dress up their .png as something slightly more trustworthy.

Whoah, how do you get a screenshot straight into a png file in Windows? I do Ctrl-Alt-Shift-PrintScreen to get it onto the clipboard, but then I have to paste it somewhere. Word deals nicely with pasted images, sizing them to fit the page, and it's easy to add a brief description of what it shows. To make an image file, what do you paste into? Paint? Is there an easier way? It might have been do-able with the clipboard viewer, but Microsoft in their infinite wisdom seem to have removed that in Win7 (it was pretty arcane and unusable anyway, from what I remember). Seriously I hope I'm one of today's lucky 10,000.

Pseudo-edit: I am one of today's lucky 10,000! I just discovered "Snipping Tool"!


I usually have an empty png/bmp laying on the desktop for this purpose - opening it launches irfan, which reports an error and lets me paste the screenshot into a new file, which I can then save as whatever I want. And then I again forget to delete the empty file.


Image

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Re: 1301: "File Extensions"

Postby dalcde » Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:31 am UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:Who are engineers? The faculty of art and design printing service? I'd expect them to be artists (albeit probably technically adept ones if they're operating the print tech). The university print office? I'd expect them to be... office drones who'd be lucky to find their asses with both hands, which sounds like the case here. The only people mentioned to be engineers in this story were Thorbard and his class.

Okay my mistake

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Re: 1301: "File Extensions"

Postby Thorbard9 » Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:00 pm UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:Who are engineers? The faculty of art and design printing service? I'd expect them to be artists (albeit probably technically adept ones if they're operating the print tech). The university print office? I'd expect them to be... office drones who'd be lucky to find their asses with both hands, which sounds like the case here. The only people mentioned to be engineers in this story were Thorbard and his class.


Pretty well sums it up.

It is probably a sign of the times that the faculty of engineering didn't have its own large format printing service.

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Re: 1301: "File Extensions"

Postby Uzh » Sat Dec 14, 2013 6:18 pm UTC

Ray Kremer wrote:
Eternal Density wrote:I sometimes receive bug reports in the form of a screenshot inside a .docx file. Maybe they're trying to dress up their .png as something slightly more trustworthy.

Oh lordy, this is what my father does sometimes with photos and other images that he wants to save for later. Well, WordPerfect instead of MS Word, but the same weird lack of recognition that the image file is already a file all by itself and doesn't need to be put into a document to be able to keep ahold of it.


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Re: 1301: "File Extensions"

Postby Hafting » Sat Dec 28, 2013 10:00 pm UTC

wisnij wrote:
Steve the Pocket wrote:Mouseover caption: I have never been lied to by data in a .txt file which has been hand-aligned.


Code: Select all

this  statement
is    false


YOUR MOVE, LOGIC.


Easy enough. Statements has 4 possible truth values. 'true', 'false', 'paradoxical' and 'self-fulfilling'. (And "this statement is true" is an example of the latter.)

The given statement is only a problem for those with the old-fashioned view that there is only 'true' and 'false' in logic. Which only hold for statements that aren't self-referential.

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Re: 1301: "File Extensions"

Postby jpvlsmv » Mon Dec 30, 2013 6:45 pm UTC

Hafting wrote:
wisnij wrote:

Code: Select all

this  statement
is    false


YOUR MOVE, LOGIC.


Easy enough. Statements has 4 possible truth values. 'true', 'false', 'paradoxical' and 'self-fulfilling'. (And "this statement is true" is an example of the latter.)

The given statement is only a problem for those with the old-fashioned view that there is only 'true' and 'false' in logic. Which only hold for statements that aren't self-referential.


Code: Select all

 1)  The   next    statement   is    true.
 2)  The  preceding  statement  is  false.


Neither is self-referential, and neither can be assigned "true" or "false" without introducing a contradiction. And some self-referential statements can be handled in a boolean fashion:

Code: Select all

This statement is true only if it is true.


non-self-referentiality is neither necessary nor sufficient to be old-fashioned.

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Re: 1301: "File Extensions"

Postby Pfhorrest » Mon Dec 30, 2013 8:29 pm UTC

The language being used is still self-referential though; it is capable of making statements about its own statements. (Each of your two sentences refers to another sentence as an object). That requires that some statements it is capable of making cannot have either "true" or "false" values, but must have either "both" (making it contradictory) or "neither" (making it incomplete).
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Re: 1301: "File Extensions"

Postby Kit. » Tue Dec 31, 2013 11:59 am UTC

However, a method of matching such self-referential statements with logically equivalent non self-referential ones is used to prove Gödel's Incompleteness theorems.

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Re: 1301: "File Extensions"

Postby rmsgrey » Wed Jan 01, 2014 10:54 pm UTC

Kit. wrote:However, a method of matching such self-referential statements with logically equivalent non self-referential ones is used to prove Gödel's Incompleteness theorems.

And similarly for the standard proof that the generalised Halting Problem can't be solved by any computing device.

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Re: 1301: "File Extensions"

Postby skeptical scientist » Fri Jan 03, 2014 6:59 am UTC

Kit. wrote:However, a method of matching such self-referential statements with logically equivalent non self-referential ones is used to prove Gödel's Incompleteness theorems.

However, this is only possible in restricted languages which cannot have a truth predicate, so the truth-values of the resulting self-referential statements are still well defined.
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Re: 1301: "File Extensions"

Postby Kit. » Fri Jan 03, 2014 8:36 pm UTC

skeptical scientist wrote:so the truth-values of the resulting self-referential statements are still well defined.

My experience with Logicat tells me that they aren't.

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Re: 1301: "File Extensions"

Postby skeptical scientist » Sat Jan 04, 2014 7:07 am UTC

Kit. wrote:
skeptical scientist wrote:so the truth-values of the resulting self-referential statements are still well defined.

My experience with Logicat tells me that they aren't.

In your experience, was logicat speaking in the language of Peano arithmetic? No? Well, then your experience is not relevant to the statement you quoted.
I'm looking forward to the day when the SNES emulator on my computer works by emulating the elementary particles in an actual, physical box with Nintendo stamped on the side.

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Re: 1301: "File Extensions"

Postby Kit. » Sat Jan 04, 2014 10:27 am UTC

skeptical scientist wrote:In your experience, was logicat speaking in the language of Peano arithmetic?

In UTF-8, to be precise.


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