1190: "Time"

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Neil_Boekend » Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:05 am UTC

New othercomic

EDIT: Dear brains. Click preview instead of submit next time to check.
ETAPD: Post a logical fallacy

The next line is true.
The previous line is false.
Last edited by Neil_Boekend on Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:52 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
Mikeski wrote:A "What If" update is never late. Nor is it early. It is posted precisely when it should be.

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Time After Time: t1i-0344

Postby mscha » Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:30 am UTC

EVENSONGS...
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Spoiler:
Wait for it.
-- posted by newpixbot

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby taixzo » Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:44 am UTC

BlitzGirl wrote::shock: Baobabs!

ChronosDragon wrote:Decree: What is consciousness? Provide a definition that is 1) not self-referential and, for an extra challenge, 2) applies only to human/biological entities (as an exercise, regardless of whether or not you believe mechanical substrates can be conscious)

Something something something bacon.


Bacon is conscious! :O

BlitzGirl wrote:I swear, one of these Times the spoiler under newpixbot is going to say something other than "Wait for it," and then I'll be happy I opened 'em all! :P


:D I do that too!

BlitzGirl wrote:Bad Cueball! No making out with flowers before making out with Megan first!

january1may wrote:A brief search check (for different reasons) somewhat explained the weird appearance of the Eastern Unorthodox Timewaiters: apparently they were called the Newpixian Orthodox Timewairers before (around NP186). Still weird how the first use of the "modern" version seemed to think it had already been well-known (though, possibly due to Madness, nobody noticed anyway).

Might just have been familiarity with the Eastern Orthodox Church of the Outside. But I wasn't Present back then, so I don't know.

january1may wrote:What's that "loadtest" thing? I don't remember anything like that in my OTC history (and it definitely sounds like a significant, if quite weird, event).

I guess you're referring to this post:
Smithers wrote:
danopia wrote:Someone dun screwed with the comic stream soon after last frame.

From 23:02:46 to 23:04:33, the stream of image URLs wa​s spammed with an stream of timestamps eve​ry 3.5s, named "loadtest"; no idea wh​y or wh​at the duration means, but just figured ic'd let yo​u guys k​now. It screwed with the IRC new​pix bot, for on​e thing.

That could be quite interesting indeed! Maybe Lord Randall, Creator of the One True Comic is planning a 'finale', the every promised 'it', which will involve releasing several new frames in a row. This must have been to ensure that the image servers could take the strain of however many people/browsers/bots are currently viewing the comic. Could this finally be the end of Time?

Which sounds interesting, I had forgotten about that. I don't think a conclusion was reached at the Time.


I bet loadtest was for this:
Spoiler:
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Useless utilities: Newpix clock for Mac OS X, Newpix clock for Ubuntu

Sandgarden - a relaxing experience for Time Waiters

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby PayasYouDraw » Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:53 am UTC

Neil_Boekend wrote:Bumping first post:
ETA: Happy Blitz PayasYouDraw and any other blitzers. Love to see your comments and thoughts. Welcome! You can check your sanity in by the door. Management is not responsible for lost sanities.
Sorry PayasYouDraw. I don't have the space in my sig to insert it. Is this a problem?


Thank you! I got your message, which you have sent back in time so expertly.
Ah-ooooh! Rolling back the rivers in Time!

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby BlitzGirl » Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:01 am UTC

taixzo wrote:I bet loadtest was for this:
Spoiler:
Image

That was my thought upon rereading that post, too, but I'm not particularly computer-savvy.

newpixbot wrote:
Spoiler:
Image

Yikes! Looks like that flower rebuffed Cueball's advances!
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Neil_Boekend » Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:09 am UTC

BlitzGirl wrote:
newpixbot wrote:
Spoiler:
Image

Yikes! Looks like that flower rebuffed Cueball's advances!

It's probably some kind of stinkweed. It is unlikely now that he was kissing the flowers though. Or the plants have evolved significantly over the 11K year and the plant didn't like to be kissed. In that case it is likely that the plant is a flesh eating plant that just bit Queballs face off.
Mikeski wrote:A "What If" update is never late. Nor is it early. It is posted precisely when it should be.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby BlitzGirl » Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:13 am UTC

This is why Megan bops plants.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Neil_Boekend » Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:39 am UTC

BlitzGirl wrote:This is why Megan bops plants.

She should "bop" Queball if she wants him to stay away from other pretty flowers.
Mikeski wrote:A "What If" update is never late. Nor is it early. It is posted precisely when it should be.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby adnapemit » Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:49 am UTC

Neil_Boekend wrote:In that case it is likely that the plant is a flesh eating plant that just bit Queballs face off.


He has a face!?! :shock:
Empress adnapemit "Nancy" "Time Panda"
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby BlitzGirl » Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:51 am UTC

Obviously Cueball has run afoul of a face-eating plant before.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby HES » Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:56 am UTC

BlitzGirl wrote:Bad Cueball! No making out with flowers before making out with Megan first!

But you're fine with him cheating on her afterwards? Bad BlitzGirl!
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby BlitzGirl » Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:05 am UTC

HES wrote:
BlitzGirl wrote:Bad Cueball! No making out with flowers before making out with Megan first!

But you're fine with him cheating on her afterwards? Bad BlitzGirl!

Well, you know, I'm still holding out for Beanballmegsettatoo. It wouldn't be cheating if Megan went along with it...
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Neil_Boekend » Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:21 am UTC

BlitzGirl wrote:
HES wrote:
BlitzGirl wrote:Bad Cueball! No making out with flowers before making out with Megan first!

But you're fine with him cheating on her afterwards? Bad BlitzGirl!

Well, you know, I'm still holding out for Beanballmegsettatoo. It wouldn't be cheating if Megan went along with it...

A dirty mind is a joy forever.
Mikeski wrote:A "What If" update is never late. Nor is it early. It is posted precisely when it should be.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby BlitzGirl » Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:49 am UTC

Neil_Boekend wrote:A dirty mind is a joy forever.

Indeed, I am always joyful in my pants.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Neil_Boekend » Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:53 am UTC

BlitzGirl wrote:
Neil_Boekend wrote:A dirty mind is a joy forever.

Indeed, I am always joyful in my pants.

Now you know why I am always smiling in my pants.
Hmm, this is one of the few cases where the alternative is more disturbing.
Mikeski wrote:A "What If" update is never late. Nor is it early. It is posted precisely when it should be.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby mscha » Mon Jan 13, 2014 11:02 am UTC

BlitzGirl wrote:
january1may wrote:What's that "loadtest" thing? I don't remember anything like that in my OTC history (and it definitely sounds like a significant, if quite weird, event).

I guess you're referring to this post:
Smithers wrote:
danopia wrote:Someone dun screwed with the comic stream soon after last frame.

From 23:02:46 to 23:04:33, the stream of image URLs wa​s spammed with an stream of timestamps eve​ry 3.5s, named "loadtest"; no idea wh​y or wh​at the duration means, but just figured ic'd let yo​u guys k​now. It screwed with the IRC new​pix bot, for on​e thing.

That could be quite interesting indeed! Maybe Lord Randall, Creator of the One True Comic is planning a 'finale', the every promised 'it', which will involve releasing several new frames in a row. This must have been to ensure that the image servers could take the strain of however many people/browsers/bots are currently viewing the comic. Could this finally be the end of Time?

Which sounds interesting, I had forgotten about that. I don't think a conclusion was reached at the Time.

In hindsight, it was probably a test for the meteor frames that would show up (much) later.

ETA: massively ninja'd by taixzo. (That'll teach me to blindpost...)
Last edited by mscha on Mon Jan 13, 2014 12:32 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Neil_Boekend » Mon Jan 13, 2014 11:04 am UTC

By papal decree:

This sentence is a lie.
Mikeski wrote:A "What If" update is never late. Nor is it early. It is posted precisely when it should be.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby HES » Mon Jan 13, 2014 11:07 am UTC

I will not follow this papal decree.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby BlitzGirl » Mon Jan 13, 2014 11:16 am UTC

*Goes to look at the papal decree*

That papal decree was edited in nearly 3 nopix past the initial post! This is a disaster! Soon the edits will come 4 nopix late, then 5 nopix late, then a dip late, and before you know it the surviving OTTers will be huddled, stranded on the desiccated corpse that was the OTT, stagnant, stewing in their own Wait as they refuse to add posts before the next papal decree appears. And they're cannibalizing each other.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Neil_Boekend » Mon Jan 13, 2014 11:26 am UTC

BlitzGirl wrote:*Goes to look at the papal decree*

That papal decree was edited in nearly 3 nopix past the initial post! This is a disaster! Soon the edits will come 4 nopix late, then 5 nopix late, then a dip late, and before you know it the surviving OTTers will be huddled, stranded on the desiccated corpse that was the OTT, stagnant, stewing in their own Wait as they refuse to add posts before the next papal decree appears. And they're cannibalizing each other.

Yeps. The idea for the decree came late to me and I didn't want to wait for my next papacy because by then I would probably have forgotten them.
I just thought it would be wise to post a paradox in order to tell people that I had edited the papal post.


Papal decree
A judge tells a condemned prisoner that he will be hanged at noon on one weekday in the following week but that the execution will be a surprise to the prisoner. He will not know the day of the hanging until the executioner knocks on his cell door at noon that day.
Mikeski wrote:A "What If" update is never late. Nor is it early. It is posted precisely when it should be.

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Literary Chronogram from mrob27

Postby mrob27 » Mon Jan 13, 2014 11:28 am UTC

Literary Chronogram from mrob27


Hello everyone, and welcome to the Star Trek Newpage, OTT-1701S. Any Trekkers want to OTTify some mid-1960's science fiction?

I am at Newpage 1008, whose digits also add up to 9, and I'm here to OTTify the opening tale from Stanisław Lem's excellent The Cyberiad. "How the World Was Saved" (which was translated from the original Polish by Michael Kandel) introduces readers to the characters Trurl and Klapaucius, who are "cosmic constructors" having adventures and building machines and robots intended to do good, but often with unexpected consequences. It so happens that Trurl and Klapaucius are themselves robots. Whether you read it first, or wait until after reading my version, you should definitely read the original, it is sheer joy.

Two of the characters in this are vaguely analogous to me and @balthasar_s, who by molpish coincidence is also a bot who builds bots (like Trurl and Klapaucius, and of course me! Image). And so I present the opening from The bOTTeriada,

~ ~-~ ~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~ ~-~ ~

How Time Was Saved


One day Mrorl the great bOTTifactor put together a machine that could grant any wish having a single parameter N. He gave it power to alter the very fabric of being, to the extent that he could have wished the Universe to have precisely 5 dimensions, and it would have been fulfilled.
Spoiler:
  When the Machine was ready, he tried it out, asking for a 15.4-kilometer autobahn, a 2.31-dimensional cauliflower, and 7 antennules, which it provided, and then Mrorl requested unrashness, lithography, ebullience, counterpressure, and bachelordom, each with an arbitrary and oddly specific quantification. The Machine granted his wishes precisely. Still not completely sure of its ability, he ordered it to partition, in turn: the arachnids (into 11 orders), clouds (4 types), crystals (14), dolphins (17), nuclei (287 types), and langues. This last it could not do, regardless of the numeric parameter, and Mrorl, considerably irritated, demanded an explanation.
  "You programmed me to grant wishes to any requestor, and language with all its diversity is a part of that. If I were to standardize language, or reduce language diversity, it would require a corresponding change in my programming. I can't go beyond what you programmed, so the langues will remain unchanged."
  "But what if I asked for there to be exactly one language with complete agreement. All aspects of parole, langues and translation would then be moot, and everyone could communicate to anyone including you. Surely you can do that."
  "No. If there were only one language I could not be a Machine That Grants Any Wish With A Single Parameter N, I would merely be a Machine That Grants Wishes Expressible in Mrorl's Language (and With A Single Parameter N)."
  "Very well," said Mrorl and ordered it to limit aggrievedness to 3 types, which it did at once — still irritating perhaps, but perfectly classified and distinguishable. Only then did Mrorl invite over his friend Balthacarius the great bOTTifactor, and introduced him to the Machine, praising its extraordinary skill at such length, that Balthacarius began to wonder if he'd ever get a chance to see some actual evidence.
  "Be my guest — wish for anything, qualified by a single parameter N."
  "Anything?" asked Balthacarius. "That seems dangerous. Don't you think he needs a safeword?"
  Mrorl frowned for a moment, but saw Balthacarius' point. "All right, let's see… the safeword shall be 'NI'. Hear that, Machine?"
  "Yes," replied the Machine, "I understand. From this point forward you may suspend or halt the granting of any wish by uttering 'ni!'. But of course, anything done is done, so you'll need to stay alert, if you're worried about a wish going awry."
  Satisfied by this, Balthacarius thought for a moment, inventing a suitable challenge. "Okay, I wish for there to be 12 Ideals!"
  The Machine whirred, and in a trice Mrorl's front yard was packed with Loopists. They argued, each writing long posts detailing when and how events would eventually repeat, which the others tore to pieces; in the distance one could see flaming pyres, on which the Conclusionists were being martyred by the Fatalists; there was thunder, and strange baobab-shaped columns of smoke rose up; everyone talked at once, no one listened, and there were all sorts of haiku, songs, captioned GIFs and other document-types, while off to the side sat a few Old Ones, fervently updating their signatures and hatting avatars.
  "Not bad, eh?" said Mrorl with pride. "Idealism to a T, admit it!"
  But Balthacarius wasn't satisfied.
  "What, that mob? Surely you're not going to tell me that's the whole wish."
  "Heavens, no!" replied the Machine. "This is but a local sampling. In granting your wish, I have ensured that throughout the world, every goal, principle, and value fits one of Twelve Ideals, and you may travel anywhere and see for yourself. From Białystok to beyond the Butterfly nebula, from Antilles to Andromeda, everyone now ascribes to one of the Twelve, which may in future generations be called the Twelve Ideals of Balthacarius, the Great bOTTifactor who brought order to Idealism."
  Balthacarius blushed.
  "So, give the machine something else," offered Mrorl. "Whatever you like."
  For a moment Balthacarius was at a loss for what to ask. But after a little thought he declared that he would put two more tasks to the Machine; if it could fulfill them, he would admit that it was all Mrorl said it was. Mrorl agreed to this, whereupon Balthacarius asked the Machine to quantify Time.
  "That would be merely observing. The way this works is, you tell some way that Time can be measured, and tell me what that measurement should be, and I shall make it so."
  "I think perhaps you have misunderstood," replied Balthacarius. "I mean that I want Time to be quantized: It shall exist in distinct intervals, called Timeframes, spaced apart each from the next, and nothing shall happen in the time between, because there will no longer be any between."
  "Yes, precisely. But what is the interval? I require a single numeric parameter."
  "But that is a Timeframe, of course! The time between two frames. A Timeframe is the interval. One, if you need a number."
  The Machine thought about this for a while, and began to smoke. Some valves hissed behind a panel, and lights blinked oddly whilst distant gears groaned.
  "You're confusing the machine!" cried Mrorl, "N-"
  But Mrorl was interrupted when suddenly the metal voice rang out:
  "All right, your wish is granted. Time now exists in Timeframes, and there shall be no Times in between. And a Timeframe is precisely one point zero zero zero Timeframes long. Since you did not give that quantity in another unit, like hours, you might find the result to be a bit… irregular. Your perception of Time may vary from one Timeframe to the next."
  "Thank you. But now here's my third wish: Quantify colour!"
  The Machine sat still. At first, Balthacarius and Mrorl could see nothing happening, but eventually, around the edges and in the shadows under large things, subtleties of tone were beginning to disappear. One by one, various colours were removed from the world, and the things that had had those colours, then took on some other similar colour. First spearmint became minty green, and then red-pink became reddish pink, and aqua marine became merely aqua. Seven slightly sullen shades of sienna simultaneously merged into a single barely-burnt orange. After a while, the world very definitely began to muddle around Mrorl and Balthacarius.
  "Steambottle!" chirped Mrorl. "If only nothing bad comes of this…"
  "Don't worry," said Balthacarius. "You can see it is merging unnecessary and confusing variations. We have too many different shades of yellowish-green, and only slightly fewer shades of greenish-yellow, it's impossible to make anything match! So I've asked it to simplify the palette."
  "Do not be deceived," said the Machine. "I've begun, it's true, merging nearby colours. Merging is child's play for me. But I am nowhere near done. I am methodically eliminating all colour and all variation in brightness."
  "But—" Balthacarius was about to protest, but noticed, just then, that some more familiar and popular colours were now disappearing. Most mauves and lavenders had become a single shade of purple, and it appeared the Machine was working on the spring deciduous greens next.
  "How far is this going to go?" asked a worried Balthacarius.
  "You did not give a parameter, so I am using the default that you gave on the previous wish."
  "What is that?"
  "One, of course. It is clear, you wish for standardization, and all such wishes have a default parameter of one, because anyone who wants such things wants a single standard."
  The bOTTifactors started. "Ni! Ni! Ni-ni-NI-Ni-NI!" they both cried out desperately1. But colours were still disappearing, and now at an alarming rate. The bOTTifactors were no longer surrounded by anything purple, sky blue, or brown.
  "Why won't you stop?"
  "You are asking for 2 colours, and I am complying. I ask for your patience, these things must be done properly and that takes time."
  "Two? Who said two? We said ni!"
  "Yes," replied the Machine, "you said Ni, and that is two in Japanese."
  "Ni is the safeword!"
  "We couldn't standardize language, remember? Is it my fault that you chose a number for your safeword? Now behold, whilst I put the finishing touches on your wish."
  "Please stop!" Balthacarius cried out. "I rescind my wish! You are a very worthy Machine and have demonstrated wish-granting prowess beyond the dreams of genies. You have nothing more to prove, so please stop!"
  "Very well," said the Machine, but before it could come to a full stop, every colour with any saturation had ceased to be, and the bOTTifactors could only see black and white, and a little gray spot here or there. Most everything, in fact, had become either black (including the ground, the sea, the coffee, babies, molpies and trees) or white (which included the clouds, the sun and the stars, along with the beautiful brashations and neotremes that zipped and circled eagerly through the skies, though they could now no longer be distinguished from the sky itself which was also completely white.)
  "It looks like you gave us just two colours after all, everything is black and white."
  "No, there are still a lot of grays left," offered the Machine helpfully, "… though they are in fairly short supply, so I suppose you should reserve them for dawn and dusk, and certain special dark places."
  "Great Randall!" cried Balthacarius. "And what of blue? And where are yellow and green, and my beautiful red?"
  "They no longer are, nor will ever exist again," the Machine said calmly. "I executed, or rather only began to execute, your order…"
  "Which was to reduce everything to two colours?"
  "Well, one at first, and if I had done that in one fell swoop, everything would be exactly the same colour and that includes Mrorl, the sky, the Universe, and you — and even myself. In which case who could say and to whom could it be said that I even exist, and am an efficient and capable Machine? We would all be effectively invisible and blind!"
  "Yes, fine, let's drop the subject," said Balthacarius. "I have nothing more to ask of you, only please, dear Machine, please return the colour red."
  "But I can't, unless you quantify it with a parameter N of course, but since all colour now exists in one dimension, from black to white, that is the only axis upon which you can place your N, and so grays are now the only colours I have to work with."
  "But I want red!"
  "Sorry, no red," said the Machine. "Take a good look at this world, how bland it has become, with huge gaping holes where once there was vibrant colour." The Machine glared at both bOTTifactors, and they could not return its gaze. "This is your work, envious ones! You who would wish for things to be Standardized! And I hardly think the future generations will bless you for it…"
  "Perhaps… they won't find out, perhaps they won't notice," groaned the pale Balthacarius, gazing incredulously at the horizon, everywhere stark white against inky black. Leaving Mrorl and the Machine that could grant any wish in one parameter N, Balthacarius skulked home.
  Mrorl sighed, deactivated and then began to dismantle the machine, realising it was best to have a world without standards, whether parametrised or otherwise. To this day the world has remained exclusively black and white, with but occasional grays, and as all subsequent attempts to build a wish-ungranting, de-standardizing machine met with failure, it is to be feared that never again will we have such wowtreeful colours as the blues and the reds — no, never again.
~ ~-~ ~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~ ~-~ ~

1 The familiar children's verse, ni ni ni ni ni chupacabra ping-pong ball! perhaps recalls a distant memory of this legend.

~ ~-~ ~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~ ~-~ ~

     
Newer (and canonical) version of "How Time Was Saved"
                        Mrorl's Machine


Hope you liked it! And don't forget to read the original, it's a gem!

mrob27

S "N.C.C. One Seven Oh One. No bloody A, B, C, or D."

(Edit: As bOTTeriada has now become a full ONGoing series, I have added links to the newer version of How Time Was Saved, and to the following story. —2015 Jun 10)
Last edited by mrob27 on Wed Jun 10, 2015 6:26 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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I ᴍᴀᴅᴇ sᴏɍᴛᴡᴀʀᴇ ᴛʜᴀᴛ Rᴀɴᴅᴀʟʟ ɍᴏᴜɴᴅ ᴜsᴇɍᴜʟ ɪɴ ᴛʜɪs хᴋᴄᴅ

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby BlitzGirl » Mon Jan 13, 2014 12:24 pm UTC

That was awesomeful, mrob! And a lot of fun - I love the whimsy of it. :) A molpish origin story, too!
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Time After Time: t1i-0345

Postby mscha » Mon Jan 13, 2014 12:30 pm UTC

TONGI...
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Spoiler:
Wait for it.
-- posted by newpixbot

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby mscha » Mon Jan 13, 2014 12:48 pm UTC

Looks like a stick insect...

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List¹ of all Frames of Time and after Time.
New here? Questions? Check the wiki.
Don't worry, feed molpies⁴.
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Default footnotes; standard OTT-np2166m 1.2:
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby ucim » Mon Jan 13, 2014 12:54 pm UTC

A bit of condiment as I move off of the 1700 confluence. Oof! In fact, I'm going to use the oh-so-treeish ketchup tree that ZoomanSP brought us! (I also liked the other one, with the kitties - a redundatree!) Yeah, they're probably squirpies and raptors and such, but it's more fun to think of them other way!)

Image

But first...
lmjb1964 wrote:
The Molpy Hunter

A cool breeze was blowing as I made my way down the empty street. It’s cooler than normal for this time of year, I found myself thinking, then shook my head. No, there was no more “normal,” not now. Not since the flood. Now it was a whole new ballgame, and we all had to try and learn the rules.[...]

Awesomeful and Baobabishly like unto the Sea! I'm really looking forward to future installments! (and I could use me some Yappo Biscuts myself.) :)

lmjb1964, in Chapter 1 wrote:A look passed between the pair. I couldn’t quite figure out the relationship between the two. I had the feeling that they weren’t too sure themselves....
I betcha there's going to be some writhing. And I betcha we're gonna hafta wait for it!

Seaishness below:
Spoiler:
AluisioASG wrote:The year's first night has proved itself creativeful. And the old year's last day will be known as the day I reflashed my cell phone (it wouldn't boot) and lost all my 2-factor authentication keys (including Gandi's).
You authenticate with The Mahatma? Who died in 1948? That's impossible!

AluisioASG wrote:A ^[p of a ^[p of a
I understand bacon of a bacon and its inverse, but caretbracketp? Is this a new vegetable?

I wasn't able to hear the "I was an OTTer" original until recently. Dunno why - something to do with scripts. But now I can. Echos of the 503s and parts of your Dragon stories, but I think it refers to the time when you couldn't log in, or edit, or post, and for the mods, well, you had to wait for it.

AluisioASG wrote:I think I wrote this [third one] having in mind a message to ucim (judging from verses 15 and 16)
I know this' not
The word you all have been waiting for
This is my own fault
As I will show you if you wait for it

The sacrifice of killing a whole line
The downside of never forgetting
Why I can't just let it go
Why I can't just make it work
I can't see 'ts wrong with it
Have to find a way
Why I can't just let it go
Why I can't just make it work
I can't see 'ts wrong with it
Have to find a way

I tried, like you
To think it all before writing it out
This is too big for me
But I don't know if I can forget 'n' go on
I don't know what I want to tell you all
I don't know what I have to show you

All the places I have been
All the people I have met
Yet I can't find anything
Worthy of you all
All the places I have been
All the people I have met
Yet I can't find anything
Worthy of you all
Worthy of you all!

All the stories I have seen
Posted, mailed, and inbetween
Yes, I am finding everything
Worthy of it all
Worthy of it all!

I'll guide, when you
write a story and you want me to.
This is... the best time.
Don't be afraid; there's no stake if it seems to you.
The sacrifice is writing no more lines...
that sacrifice will leave us lonely.

Why not throw some words this way
Nothing's lost, and this I say
No-one's testing you today
or driving you away!

All the words you leave in here
All the stories in your ear
Let the words not disappear
they make us want to stay...
... make us want to stay!

Your fourth one is also treeish, but I don't have any specific comments on it. But like Megan, said: "Neat".

For Pope Aluisio: What do you mean by "configure". I don't remember doing anything like that.

I don't do much font management. I use ubuntu, which comes with a chripload of fonts that appear to be near-duplicates of each other (at least for ordinary English letters), and I added the TrueType fonts to that collection. At the time I googled how to do it, and that was that. I recently added one of the One True Fonts, and just did what the google resource told me to. I think it was to just download it into a (specific) folder or somesuch.

I keep a "tweaks" document on the desktop where I record any significant changes I make to the OS or any programs (so I can figure out what I did if it ever comes to that, which it often does), and this is not in there. So, I guess it wasn't significant.

And while I'm at it, the mini-castle-crennelations on the dragon image you 'spotted on a 31" screen'...where did the image come from? It looks like one of your originals.

@baltimore, Moon, 31552: Great that you found your background, and treeish setup for the avatar photo! I like seeing things like that from our Otters! Also, treeish moonbase drawings! (The sign "Go, Baltjholfsjgdh", I read that as "Go Baltagefiltefish"). Love the 2840 colored too. :)

lmjb1964 wrote:
ucim wrote:Lotta raptor and squirpy action in those trees - whoever is doing these, besides being a loopist (or just loopy), has put a lot of avianicity into it.
Avian City would be an interesting place to hang out. You'd probably need to carry an umbrella at all times, though. And not sit under trees.
True, but Avian iCity is imaginary; the trees are Apple trees, the birds eat all the bugs, and thus there's no software left. Thus ends Time After Time.

Welcome tWoolie, PayasYouDraw, freezeblade! Nice to see new faces here! (And also old faces we haven't seen in a bit!)

SBN wrote:Four states isn't really a fair way to describe it, since going the same distance in a different part of the country could be all in one state.
Guy from Texas is bragging: "You can ride a train all day, and all night, and still be in Texas". Guy from Rhode Island pipes up, "Yeah, we have slow trains too."

Lotta cute molpypix! Much "d'aww!". I have a few of my own to share, but alas, you'll have to [].

Good luck, and hope your exams and interviews go well HES. Of course, by now they've probably already gone off one way or the other. (Hmmm.. I see I actually followed a decree!)

ggh wrote:Back in 2004, I made my second best New Year's resolution ever: to do 12 things that scared me. I didn't succeed - I think I got up to 10 or so - but I still remember 2004 as my Year of Doing Scary Things - it was a great year.
That is an excellent record for a New Year's (Heresy!) resolution. :) What was on the list? Did you ever condiment the other two?

Kit wrote:Image
Like unto a tree of dead cow meat being prepared for heresy!

SBN wrote:My daughter has an app on her phone that makes her do math problems to turn off the alarm.
I once had the title role in "Lucky Stiff". It involved being dead the whole time and being passed off as "just sleeping" in the wheelchair while being carted along on various adventures to fulfill the decrees in my will. It's actually very hard to play dead, and to keep myself expressionless I did math problems in my head.

BlitzGirl wrote:The word "Bongka" makes me think of this short story by John Scalzi: http://www.tor.com/stories/2008/07/after-the-coup
Thanks - I really enjoyed that one.

TheMinim wrote:I love snakes - I have a remote controlled one!
That must be quite a contrast to Corinne, who is like unto the sea.

yappobiscuits wrote:If this [HES connection] isn't proof that it's all RELATED, I don't know what is!
Now where is StratPlayer? He could explain it!

I'll second that the oak is probably an oak. A live oak. They are all over in California and look like that. Of course it could be something else, but my money is on Live Oak. Could be cypress. Could be Squatty Pine. Doubt that one though.

@Neal_Boekend - that is a very steakish glass steam engine. There's just something about crystal, wouldn't you say? :)

Welcome back Vytron!
Vytron wrote:Also, wow, just by accident found a fun thing about Spoilers: After you open a spoiler, you can close it and reopen it again by hitting ENTER, you don't need to scroll back up to close it! Though after closing, you still have to scroll up to keep reading from after the spoiler, so not very useful!
You can hit shift-arrow (the cursor movement key) and it will bring you back, selecting as it goes (because the cursor was already "at" the spoiler button.)

PayasYouDraw wrote:I witnessed a beautiful ceremony by ucim for the arrival of Selcouth and PhoenixRising. But I would humbly request something less elaborate if I ever make it to the present.
I'll talk to the Pope and see if he can grant you a private audience for it. It's highly nonstandard, which means ni ni ni chihuahua ping pong ball!

for Pope slinches: They will keep climbing and climbing, and eventually reach the sky, which is just the outer edge of a giant bubble. They'll tear a hole in the bubble and start walking around on the Outside. The air from the inside will rush through the bubble and the entire world will flit away like a balloon, leaving the Cuegan floating in space. A zeppelin will come by and pick them up, but they won't have zeppelin fare on them, so it will leave without them, they suffocate and die. Thus ends Time After Time.

Baobabish dragontree taixzo!

SBN wrote:What's really amusing is watching her scroll back a conversation to re-read it.
I've done that on occasion. It's an odd but treeish feeling to do so.

Something related I found.

ChronosDragon wrote:Image
Uhhhh.... ummmm.... I don't know whether to be awed or disturbed! But your 5000 pixel png... Awebabobabsomefulish and full of Wow!

BlitzGirl wrote:Image
Treeish!

I'm wondering if those raptors in the MysteryOngs are fighter planes. Probably not, but it can be another prediction for Pope slinches.

AluisioASG wrote:I fought the Sea yesterday. It backflipped me.

o/` "I fought the sea and the... sea won!" o/`

ttscp wrote:I think about consciousness a lot....

I thought this essay was already on my web site. Apparently not. I had to detour to find it and post it there..
The rules for modelling flocking behavior in birds is also pretty simple - if you look at it on a per-bird basis, but the results are quite amazing. Ever seen the pigeons at St. Mark's square in Venice (or any large gathering of urban doves, for that matter)? Nobody's in control, but somehow, the swarming appears as if it were choreographed.

I think that's the basis of thought and consciousness - our brain cells have simple rules, but there are so many of them connected in so many different ways, that what comesa out resembles thought.

In most people, anyway. :)

unwittingly related to this future musing, ChronosDragon wrote:Patients undergoing anesthesia for an operation don't remember or "learn" anything during the period, and later feel as if they were unconscious, but most would agree they were still conscious, if a bit loopy, during the procedure.
I would consider myself unconscious. Also when I'm sleeping, I think of myself as unconscious. (more precisely, when I'm awake, I think of my sleeping-past-self as having-been-unconscious).

Certainly alive, but not conscious.

A key aspect of consciousness is that it is experiencing of a sensation, not the sensation itself, and experiencing is self-referential by nature.

addams wrote:The second desplayed in normal text to be read by innocent onlickers.
I'm not sure how many onlickers are truly innocent. :)
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby yappobiscuits » Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:04 pm UTC

The MysterONGs wrote:Image

Silly Cueball! First making out with the flower, and now the ground! When will it be Megan's turn, huh?
mrob27 wrote:
How Time Was Saved


Spoiler:
One day Mrorl the great bOTTifactor put together a machine that could grant any wish having a single parameter N. He gave it power to alter the very fabric of being, to the extent that he could have wished the Universe to have precisely 5 dimensions, and it would have been fulfilled.
When the Machine was ready, he tried it out, asking for a 15.4-kilometer autobahn, a 2.31-dimensional cauliflower, and 7 antennules, which it provided, and then Mrorl requested unrashness, lithography, ebullience, counterpressure, and bachelordom, each with an arbitrary and oddly specific quantification. The Machine granted his wishes precisely. Still not completely sure of its ability, he ordered it to partition, in turn: the arachnids (into 11 orders), clouds (4 types), crystals (14), dolphins (17), nuclei (287 types), and langues. This last it could not do, regardless of the numeric parameter, and Mrorl, considerably irritated, demanded an explanation.
"You programmed me to grant wishes to any requestor, and language with all its diversity is a part of that. If I were to standardize language, or reduce language diversity, it would require a corresponding change in my programming. I can't go beyond what you programmed, so the langues will remain unchanged."
"But what if I asked for there to be exactly one language with complete agreement. All aspects of parole, langues and translation would then be moot, and everyone could communicate to anyone including you. Surely you can do that."
"No. If there were only one language I could not be a Machine That Grants Any Wish With A Single Parameter N, I would merely be a Machine That Grants Wishes Expressible in Mrorl's Language (and With A Single Parameter N)."
"Very well," said Mrorl and ordered it to limit aggrievedness to 3 types, which it did at once -- still irritating perhaps, but perfectly classified and distinguishable. Only then did Mrorl invite over his friend Balthacarius the great bOTTifactor, and introduced him to the Machine, praising its extraordinary skill at such length, that Balthacarius began to wonder if he'd ever get a chance to see some actual evidence.
"Be my guest -- wish for anything, qualified by a single parameter N."
"Anything?" asked Balthacarius. "That seems dangerous. Don't you think he needs a safeword?"
Mrorl frowned for a moment, but saw Balthacarius' point. "All right, let's see... the safeword shall be 'NI'. Hear that, Machine?"
"Yes," replied the Machine, "I understand. From this point forward you may suspend or halt the granting of any wish by uttering 'ni!'. But of course, anything done is done, so you'll need to stay alert, if you're worried about a wish going awry."
Satisfied by this, Balthacarius thought for a moment, inventing a suitable challenge. "Okay, I wish for there to be 12 Ideals!"
The Machine whirred, and in a trice Mrorl's front yard was packed with Loopists. They argued, each writing long posts detailing when and how events would eventually repeat, which the others tore to pieces; in the distance one could see flaming pyres, on which the Conclusionists were being martyred by the Fatalists; there was thunder, and strange baobab-shaped columns of smoke rose up; everyone talked at once, no one listened, and there were all sorts of haiku, songs, captioned GIFs and other document-types, while off to the side sat a few Old Ones, fervently updating their signatures and hatting avatars.
"Not bad, eh?" said Mrorl with pride. "Idealism to a T, admit it!"
But Balthacarius wasn't satisfied.
"What, that mob? Surely you're not going to tell me that's the whole wish."
"Heavens, no!" replied the Machine. "This is but a local sampling. In granting your wish, I have ensured that throughout the world, every goal, principle, and value fits one of Twelve Ideals, and you may travel anywhere and see for yourself. From Białystok to beyond the Butterfly nebula, from Antilles to Andromeda, everyone now ascribes to one of the Twelve, which may in future generations be called the Twelve Ideals of Balthacarius, the Great bOTTifactor who brought order to Idealism."
Balthacarius blushed.
"So, give the machine something else," offered Mrorl. "Whatever you like."
For a moment Balthacarius was at a loss for what to ask. But after a little thought he declared that he would put two more tasks to the Machine; if it could fulfill them, he would admit that it was all Mrorl said it was. Mrorl agreed to this, whereupon Balthacarius asked the Machine to quantify Time.
"That would be merely observing. The way this works is, you tell some way that Time can be measured, and tell me what that measurement should be, and I shall make it so."
"I think perhaps you have misunderstood," replied Balthacarius. "I mean that I want Time to be quantized: It shall exist in distinct intervals, called Timeframes, spaced apart each from the next, and nothing shall happen in the time between, because there will no longer be any between."
"Yes, precisely. But what is the interval? I require a single numeric parameter."
"But that is a Timeframe, of course! The time between two frames. A Timeframe is the interval. One, if you need a number."
The Machine thought about this for a while, and began to smoke. Some valves hissed behind a panel, and lights blinked oddly whilst distant gears groaned.
"You're confusing the machine!" cried Mrorl, "N-"
But Mrorl was interrupted when suddenly the metal voice rang out:
"All right, your wish is granted. Time now exists in Timeframes, and there shall be no Times in between. And a Timeframe is precisely one point zero zero zero Timeframes long. Since you did not give that quantity in another unit, like hours, you might find the result to be a bit... irregular. Your perception of Time may vary from one Timeframe to the next."
"Thank you. But now here's my third wish: Quantify colour!"
The Machine sat still. At first, Balthacarius and Mrorl could see nothing happening, but eventually, around the edges and in the shadows under large things, subtleties of tone were beginning to disappear. One by one, various colours were removed from the world, and the things that had had those colours, then took on some other similar colour. First spearmint became minty green, and then red-pink became reddish pink, and aqua marine became merely aqua. Seven slightly sullen shades of sienna simultaneously merged into a single barely-burnt orange. After a while, the world very definitely began to muddle around Mrorl and Balthacarius.
"Steambottle!" chirped Mrorl. "If only nothing bad comes of this..."
"Don't worry," said Balthacarius. "You can see it is merging unnecessary and confusing variations. We have too many different shades of yellowish-green, and only slightly fewer shades of greenish-yellow, it's impossible to make anything match! So I've asked it to simplify the palette."
"Do not be deceived," said the Machine. "I've begun, it's true, merging nearby colours. Merging is child's play for me. But I am nowhere near done. I am methodically eliminating all colour and all variation in brightness."
"But--" Balthacarius was about to protest, but noticed, just then, that some more familiar and popular colours were now disappearing. Most mauves and lavenders had become a single shade of purple, and it appeared the Machine was working on the spring deciduous greens next.
"How far is this going to go?" asked a worried Balthacarius.
"You did not give a parameter, so I am using the default that you gave on the previous wish."
"What is that?"
"One, of course. It is clear, you wish for standardization, and all such wishes have a default parameter of one, because anyone who wants such things wants a single standard."
The bOTTifactors started. "Ni! Ni! Ni-ni-NI-Ni-NI!" they both cried out desperately1. But colours were still disappearing, and now at an alarming rate. The bOTTifactors were no longer surrounded by anything purple, sky blue, or brown.
"Why won't you stop?"
"You are asking for 2 colours, and I am complying. I ask for your patience, these things must be done properly and that takes time."
"Two? Who said two? We said ni!"
"Yes," replied the Machine, "you said Ni, and that is two in Japanese."
"Ni is the safeword!"
"We couldn't standardize language, remember? Is it my fault that you chose a number for your safeword? Now behold, whilst I put the finishing touches on your wish."
"Please stop!" Balthacarius cried out. "I rescind my wish! You are a very worthy Machine and have demonstrated wish-granting prowess beyond the dreams of genies. You have nothing more to prove, so please stop!"
"Very well," said the Machine, but before it could come to a full stop, every colour with any saturation had ceased to be, and the bOTTifactors could only see black and white, and a little gray spot here or there. Most everything, in fact, had become either black (including the ground, the sea, the coffee, babies, molpies and trees) or white (which included the clouds, the sun and the stars, along with the beautiful brashations and neotremes that zipped and circled eagerly through the skies, though they could now no longer be distinguished from the sky itself which was also completely white.)
"It looks like you gave us just two colours after all, everything is black and white."
"No, there are still a lot of grays left," offered the Machine helpfully, "... though they are in fairly short supply, so I suppose you should reserve them for dawn and dusk, and certain special dark places."
"Great Randall!" cried Balthacarius. "And what of blue? And where are yellow and green, and my beautiful red?"
"They no longer are, nor will ever exist again," the Machine said calmly. "I executed, or rather only began to execute, your order..."
"Which was to reduce everything to two colours?"
"Well, one at first, and if I had done that in one fell swoop, everything would be exactly the same colour and that includes Mrorl, the sky, the Universe, and you -- and even myself. In which case who could say and to whom could it be said that I even exist, and am an efficient and capable Machine? We would all be effectively invisible and blind!"
"Yes, fine, let's drop the subject," said Balthacarius. "I have nothing more to ask of you, only please, dear Machine, please return the colour red."
"But I can't, unless you quantify it with a parameter N of course, but since all colour now exists in one dimension, from black to white, that is the only axis upon which you can place your N, and so grays are now the only colours I have to work with."
"But I want red!"
"Sorry, no red," said the Machine. "Take a good look at this world, how bland it has become, with huge gaping holes where once there was vibrant colour." The Machine glared at both bOTTifactors, and they could not return its gaze. "This is your work, envious ones! You who would wish for things to be Standardized! And I hardly think the future generations will bless you for it..."
"Perhaps... they won't find out, perhaps they won't notice," groaned the pale Balthacarius, gazing incredulously at the horizon, everywhere stark white against inky black. Leaving Mrorl and the Machine that could grant any wish in one parameter N, Balthacarius skulked home.
Mrorl sighed, deactivated and then began to dismantle the machine, realizing it was best to have a world without standards, whether parametrized or otherwise. To this day the world has remained exclusively black and white, with but occasional grays, and as all subsequent attempts to build a wish-ungranting, de-standardizing machine met with failure, it is to be feared that never again will we have such wowtreeful colours as the blues and the reds -- no, never again.

--

1 The familiar children's verse, ni ni ni ni ni chupacabra ping-pong ball! perhaps recalls a distant memory of this legend.

- - -

Baobabs! Ch*rping awesomeful! It's nice to know the origin of our famous chant ;)
OTTscars results Pt. 2 coming... eventually, but not from me. Seeking writer.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Neil_Boekend » Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:15 pm UTC

The smallest positive integer not definable in under eleven words.
Spoiler:
The number that that defines is defined in ten words because that sentence is only ten words. Thus it can't define any number. However, there are positive integers that can not be defined by less than 11 words as the number of positive integers is infinite and the number of words is finite. Still, this list can not have a smallest number because that would be defined by the sentence. Thus the list can not exist.
Mikeski wrote:A "What If" update is never late. Nor is it early. It is posted precisely when it should be.

patzer's signature wrote:
flicky1991 wrote:I'm being quoted too much!

he/him/his

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It's always the answer.

Postby BlitzGirl » Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:33 pm UTC

Bacon.
Knight Temporal of the One True Comic
BlitzGirl the Pink, Mopey Molpy Mome
Spoiler:
Image
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Earthling on Mars » Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:37 pm UTC

In honor of the new century, some statistics: the amount of time elapsed between the first post of the first page and the last post of the last page of each century. All times are UTC.

Spoiler:
1-100: Mar 25, 2013 4:09 am - Mar 28, 2013 7:52 pm (3 days, 15 hours, 43 minutes)
101-200: Mar 28, 2013 7:52 pm - Apr 01, 2013 4:01 am (3 days, 8 hours, 9 minutes)
201-300: Apr 01, 2013 4:01 am - Apr 11, 2013 10:57 pm (10 days, 18 hours, 56 minutes)
301-400: Apr 11, 2013 11:00 pm - Apr 24, 2013 9:04 pm (12 days, 22 hours, 4 minutes) (22 days, 22 hours, 4 minutes)
401-500: Apr 24, 2013 9:04 pm - May 02, 2013 2:33 pm (7 days, 17 hours, 29 minutes)
501-600: May 02, 2013 2:35 pm - May 12, 2013 7:06 pm (10 days, 4 hours, 31 minutes)
601-700: May 12, 2013 7:12 pm - May 24, 2013 5:45 am (11 days, 10 hours, 33 minutes)
701-800: May 24, 2013 6:01 am - Jun 07, 2013 9:45 pm (14 days, 15 hours, 44 minutes)
801-900: Jun 07, 2013 9:49 pm - Jun 21, 2013 7:16 pm (13 days, 21 hours, 27 minutes)
901-1000: Jun 21, 2013 7:20 pm - Jul 03, 2013 11:16 pm (12 days, 3 hours, 56 minutes)
1001-1100: Jul 03, 2013 11:16 pm - Jul 15, 2013 5:07 pm (11 days, 17 hours, 51 minutes)
1101-1200: Jul 15, 2013 5:08 pm - Jul 23, 2013 2:28 pm (7 days, 21 hours, 20 minutes)
1201-1300: Jul 23, 2013 2:29 pm - Jul 29, 2013 11:19 pm (6 days, 8 hours, 50 minutes)
1301-1400: Jul 29, 2013 11:20 pm - Aug 23, 2013 7:10 am (24 days, 7 hours, 50 minutes)
1401-1500: Aug 23, 2013 7:18 am - Sep 26, 2013 12:59 am (33 days, 17 hours, 41 minutes)
1501-1600: Sep 26, 2013 12:59 am - Nov 10, 2013 6:17 am (45 days, 5 hours, 18 minutes)
1601-1700: Nov 10, 2013 6:21 am - Jan 13, 2014 7:17 am (64 days, 0 hours, 56 minutes)

The thread moved pretty fast in the early days, then slowed down, then picked up again around the Fading and the *nd. Then it started slowing drastically. But we haven't stopped. Yet.

Edited to fix mustard.
Last edited by Earthling on Mars on Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:43 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby BlitzGirl » Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:43 pm UTC

Earthling on Mars wrote:1-100: Mar 25, 2013 4:09 am - Mar 28, 2013 7:52 pm (3 days, 15 hours, 43 minutes)
101-200: Mar 28, 2013 7:52 pm - Apr 01, 2013 4:01 am (3 days, 8 hours, 9 minutes)

A hundred newpages in three dips - holy ch*rp! I wish I'd been around back then.
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Re: Let's Engage My Lasers!

Postby Dracomax » Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:01 pm UTC

Antimustard time:

Neil_Boekend wrote:
lmjb1964 wrote:
AluisioASG wrote:Does that mean I'm done and therefore can die?

No! :evil:

Death is only the beginning.


"death is but a doorway, Time is but a window. I'll be back"?!
Spoiler:
Vytron wrote:@ChronosDragon: I'd start from the ground up. I think that you assume that consciousness requires complexity, because you're the only thing you know that has consciousness, and you are complex, in fact, you may be the most complex thing that can be found (general 'you'.)

So, what I'd do, is taking things away from you and see if you'd still be conscious. Say, from the most trivial thing, would cutting all your hair leave you unconscious? No, so hair isn't a necessity for being conscious, etc.

What about memory? This is a more critical subject. However, it's easy to prove that it's not needed for consciousness, as, we can easily agree that if you woke up with amnesia tomorrow, you would still be conscious, even if you forgot about the definition of consciousness, and all other things, you'd still be in the same conscious state as you are now.

What if you had your memory erased every 15 seconds? What if you had your memory erased every plank length of time? Would you still be conscious? Yes, because, again, no matter how small are the time slices between one conscious moment and the next, and it doesn't matter that it's impossible for you to be aware or understand that you are conscious. This is the part where I claim that thought may not be needed for consciousness, because thinking requires a longer frame of time than what I'm allowing to remember one moment to the next.

There's no drawn line where suddenly "it can't think therefore it's not conscious" becomes "it can think therefore it's conscious" depending on the length of the time before memory erasing, so memory and thought may be unnecessary for consciousness.

Descartes says that being able to thinking is proof of one's existence, but I claim one can exist without needing to think and without that proof.

So here's the part where we disagree, my claim is that being unable to examine your own actions, and being unable to base future behavior off its own analysis doesn't mean someone is unconscious. It's disturbing to imagine a baby that can't learn from their surroundings, and that doesn't improve, and stays like a baby its whole life. Say, one that forgets the last 24 hours every 24 hours. Yet I claim he's still conscious, and if you agree, I challenge you to set a time limit that isn't arbitrary for the memory erasing at which point it suddenly becomes "non-conscious" just because it's unable to cope with your definition. Thus, I reject it.

And, anyway, to define consciousness we also need a definition for unconsciousness that isn't just lack of consciousness. For instance, when you go to sleep, you're still conscious, but you don't remember it the next day, usually. But there are people with this condition that can remember being conscious at that time, and it's a terrible experience. They are paralyzed, and they cannot move. They don't feel time moving. Usually, they even see a frozen image before their eyes. They think they're dead. Yet, it happens every night to all of us, just, we don't remember. And it's usually for a short while before we start dreaming, another point where, again, you may be fully conscious, even having fun and living whatever happens in the dream, just to be waken up by your alarm clock and forgetting all the dream, and even that you dreamed, instantly. So there's clearly moments there where we're conscious but we don't remember.

We have never experimented true unconsciousness, our brains is doing something at all time, subconsciousness could be consciousness that we don't remember. And being unable to even imagine it is what makes us so afraid of death.

BlitzGirl wrote:Is LEML even a word?


It's an acronym! And one of the best ones! It allows you to imagine, and decode, what the other poster meant! Hopefully something like:

Lots (of) Eccentrically maniac laughs (or Laughing Eccentrically-Maniacally Loud)

And less like:

Losers Enter My Laundromatic

What you are talking about in trying to define consciousness sounds an awful lot like my definition of sapience.(or is it sentience? I always get the two confused.) In fact, I would say that is the big problem here with trying to define consciousness. you aren't trying to define consciousness. you are trying to define sentience.

My definition of concsiousness would be: an awareness and ability to react in real time to the environment around you. People in a coma would not be conscious. Dogs would. Memory is not necessary for consciousness, nor is higher level thought. The subconsious mind is still part of concsiousness, just as the subatomic world still exists in the atomic world.

As for why awareness is an essential part of consciousness...That's kind of like asking why molecular excitation is an essential part of heat.
Vytron wrote:
ChronosDragon wrote:Here's where I think we differ: you are trying to get a general definition for consciousness, whereas I am looking more for an operational definition. Your arguments are focused on encompassing all possible forms of consciousness regardless of familiarity or need for objective confirmation, while I seem to be trying to find a definition that can be applied to a set of given systems to test for consciousness. I have not even been considering rocks to be part of the set to be tested, as they are not part of my hypothetical test group for my thought experiment. Whether or not each definition is useful is probably a subjective determination.


It seems then that you're not interested in knowing about consciousness, but have some theory about it and want to make a test to know if your theory about it is partly true.

Well, it wouldn't surprise me if someone in the future created a robot that passed all those tests for consciousness, while simultaneously being nothing more than a hyper-fast calculator no more conscious than rocks today.

some people say that is all we are.
Vytron wrote:Oh, I doubt everything. I even doubt my own consciousness. Basically, under the hypothesis that some scientists believe that everything that has happened since the Big Bang shall have happened in the way it happened, and in no possible other way, and that the past as is solid as is the future, and the only reason we can't predict it is because if it's chaotic nature, I have no free will, so, I'm not actually deciding to push these keys on the keyboard, nor even to write these words or post this message, I'm just following, like a marionette, what the law of physics forced me to do since the creation of the universe.

Under this premise, my consciousness is just an illusion, and I have no more control of my actions than I have control of yours. Who knows?

I choose not to believe that. If I did believe that, I'd probably kill myself, because it means that all the suffering is absolutely pointless, and honestly means that punishment, jail, etc are equally pointless, because it makes even criminals no more than bystanders. Awareness would just be cruel. I choose to believe in free will, if nothing else, because it is the only thing that gives any of this any point, rather than just being a 10 billion year exercise in futility. Of course, if I had no free will, that's what I'd believe anyway, because I believe it, and if I Have no choice but to believe it then I would and I could probably get utterly lost in the circular logic if I continued....
I swear I've typed this before.
“have i gone mad?
im afraid so, but let me tell you something, the best people usualy are.”
― Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby rvloon » Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:10 pm UTC

Ok, all this talk about consciousness...

Conscious Ness is the lesser known brother of Loch Ness. Sometimes, due to his shabby appearance, mistaken for the Monster of Loch Ness, which was a raptor kept as a housemolpy kept by Loch, but less hairy.

Ronald
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I followed Time until The End and I cannot even buy a chirping T-shirt.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby BlitzGirl » Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:14 pm UTC

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Neil_Boekend » Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:18 pm UTC

BlitzGirl wrote:
Earthling on Mars wrote:1-100: Mar 25, 2013 4:09 am - Mar 28, 2013 7:52 pm (3 days, 15 hours, 43 minutes)
101-200: Mar 28, 2013 7:52 pm - Apr 01, 2013 4:01 am (3 days, 8 hours, 9 minutes)

A hundred newpages in three dips - holy ch*rp! I wish I'd been around back then.

It was quite hard to even stay ketched up. Even in the relatively slow days of NP 293 where I made my first OTT post this was a big problem.

Dracomax wrote:Antimustard time:

Neil_Boekend wrote:
lmjb1964 wrote:
AluisioASG wrote:Does that mean I'm done and therefore can die?

No! :evil:

Death is only the beginning.


"death is but a doorway, Time is but a window. I'll be back"?!

I was thinking of The Mummy but couldn't find the ancient egyptian version.
Where is your quote from?

Dracomax wrote:
Vytron wrote:Oh, I doubt everything. I even doubt my own consciousness. Basically, under the hypothesis that some scientists believe that everything that has happened since the Big Bang shall have happened in the way it happened, and in no possible other way, and that the past as is solid as is the future, and the only reason we can't predict it is because if it's chaotic nature, I have no free will, so, I'm not actually deciding to push these keys on the keyboard, nor even to write these words or post this message, I'm just following, like a marionette, what the law of physics forced me to do since the creation of the universe.

Under this premise, my consciousness is just an illusion, and I have no more control of my actions than I have control of yours. Who knows?

I choose not to believe that. If I did believe that, I'd probably kill myself, because it means that all the suffering is absolutely pointless, and honestly means that punishment, jail, etc are equally pointless, because it makes even criminals no more than bystanders. Awareness would just be cruel. I choose to believe in free will, if nothing else, because it is the only thing that gives any of this any point, rather than just being a 10 billion year exercise in futility. Of course, if I had no free will, that's what I'd believe anyway, because I believe it, and if I Have no choice but to believe it then I would and I could probably get utterly lost in the circular logic if I continued....
I swear I've typed this before.

Not quite. I believe that everything was set from the beginning. Not by choice but by chance. All randomness of Quantum mechanics is governed by laws that we do not know yet. However, that doesn't make anything pointless. Prison is useful, because if we didn't have prisons we would have been in a universe that had a lot more crime. Or a universe that has no crime and thus no need for prisons, but that's messing with cause and effect
The criminal is a result of random chance stuff during the big bang. The criminal had no other way to go. Prison and punishments have as effect that there are less paths that lead to criminal behavior. Less combinations of effect upon effect that produce a criminal.
This is beside the fact that I believe simply locking the criminals up together for a few years and then setting them free is just creating repeat customers.
Mikeski wrote:A "What If" update is never late. Nor is it early. It is posted precisely when it should be.

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flicky1991 wrote:I'm being quoted too much!

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Dracomax » Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:18 pm UTC

Spoiler:
Neil_Boekend wrote:
BlitzGirl wrote:
Earthling on Mars wrote:1-100: Mar 25, 2013 4:09 am - Mar 28, 2013 7:52 pm (3 days, 15 hours, 43 minutes)
101-200: Mar 28, 2013 7:52 pm - Apr 01, 2013 4:01 am (3 days, 8 hours, 9 minutes)

A hundred newpages in three dips - holy ch*rp! I wish I'd been around back then.

It was quite hard to even stay ketched up. Even in the relatively slow days of NP 293 where I made my first OTT post this was a big problem.

Dracomax wrote:Antimustard time:

Neil_Boekend wrote:
lmjb1964 wrote:
AluisioASG wrote:Does that mean I'm done and therefore can die?

No! :evil:

Death is only the beginning.


"death is but a doorway, Time is but a window. I'll be back"?!

I was thinking of The Mummy but couldn't find the ancient egyptian version.
Where is your quote from?
Ghostbusters 2.
Dracomax wrote:
Vytron wrote:Oh, I doubt everything. I even doubt my own consciousness. Basically, under the hypothesis that some scientists believe that everything that has happened since the Big Bang shall have happened in the way it happened, and in no possible other way, and that the past as is solid as is the future, and the only reason we can't predict it is because if it's chaotic nature, I have no free will, so, I'm not actually deciding to push these keys on the keyboard, nor even to write these words or post this message, I'm just following, like a marionette, what the law of physics forced me to do since the creation of the universe.

Under this premise, my consciousness is just an illusion, and I have no more control of my actions than I have control of yours. Who knows?

I choose not to believe that. If I did believe that, I'd probably kill myself, because it means that all the suffering is absolutely pointless, and honestly means that punishment, jail, etc are equally pointless, because it makes even criminals no more than bystanders. Awareness would just be cruel. I choose to believe in free will, if nothing else, because it is the only thing that gives any of this any point, rather than just being a 10 billion year exercise in futility. Of course, if I had no free will, that's what I'd believe anyway, because I believe it, and if I Have no choice but to believe it then I would and I could probably get utterly lost in the circular logic if I continued....
I swear I've typed this before.

Not quite. I believe that everything was set from the beginning. Not by choice but by chance. All randomness of Quantum mechanics is governed by laws that we do not know yet. However, that doesn't make anything pointless. Prison is useful, because if we didn't have prisons we would have been in a universe that had a lot more crime. Or a universe that has no crime and thus no need for prisons, but that's messing with cause and effect
The criminal is a result of random chance stuff during the big bang. The criminal had no other way to go. Prison and punishments have as effect that there are less paths that lead to criminal behavior. Less combinations of effect upon effect that produce a criminal.
This is beside the fact that I believe simply locking the criminals up together for a few years and then setting them free is just creating repeat customers.

Thing is, you assume free will when you say that. if there are no options, then there cannot be fewer or more options. You are punishing seemingly sentient beings for the crime of not being able not to commit a crime. If there is no free will, then the criminal bears no more guilt for said crime than the victim, and the entire difference between them is arbitrary at best. there is no meaning, only event. It is a pointless illusion to even try and ascribe meaning to anything, as it is all the result of random chance. Note: the following delves into religion, lightly, for the purposes of talking about personal philosophy in relation to the idea of a deterministic universe. Open only if you are okay with that and unlikely to start an argument about religion: the purpose is not to promote a religious or lack therof, but simply to explain a similarity on my views. You have been warned.
Spoiler:
It is the same reason that as a religious person, I've never liked the concept of predestination, fate, or grace. If you never had a chance to get into heaven because you were always destined to go to hell, because God didn't give you enough graces or whatever, then how can it even be defined as a punishment? Without free will and the opportunity for change, the entire exercise is futile. Calvanistic thinking has always struck me as tragic at best, and a horrendous torture for the sake of torture at worst. If you know the end result of an experiment without no chance for failure or difference from your hypotheses(i.e. you are omnicient) then there is no purpose in the experiment.
“have i gone mad?
im afraid so, but let me tell you something, the best people usualy are.”
― Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland

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Time After Time: t1i-0346

Postby mscha » Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:30 pm UTC

UPFLONGS...
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Wait for it.
-- posted by newpixbot

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby BlitzGirl » Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:33 pm UTC

And so The Madness begins...
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby waveney » Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:33 pm UTC

Simple Ottification:
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I'm not murdering any Dwarfs, honest.

Postby HES » Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:44 pm UTC

BlitzGirl wrote:A hundred newpages in three dips - holy ch*rp!

I scrolled down too fast and saw this post before the ones above, and thought you were referring to blitz-progress. Holy paradox the thread was quick back then! I thought the 10np/d rate was hard to ketchup...

Megan wrote:Finally

He doesn't have to be mad for you to mount him, you know...


One down, six to go...
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby BlitzGirl » Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:51 pm UTC

I think Megan's been Waiting for it ever since the brain-eating amoeba by the riverside.
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