1446: "Landing"

This forum is for the individual discussion thread that goes with each new comic.

Moderators: Moderators General, Prelates, Magistrates

User avatar
Keyman
Posts: 241
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2014 1:56 pm UTC

Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby Keyman » Thu Nov 13, 2014 7:07 pm UTC

ucim wrote:
geekguyandy wrote:More interesting news from Philae - it bounced multiple times! The sensors detected 3 landings, at 15:33, 17:26 and 17:33 UTC. Notice that nearly two hours passed after the first bounce.
Given the microgravity, how high a bounce would that be? Could it be instead a sensor malfunction, or a pad not being quite down?

Jose
I think it was the whale, slapping it away with its tale, before it could operate the harpoons.
A childhood spent walking while reading books has prepared me unexpectedly well for today's world.

LordHorst
Posts: 45
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 6:17 am UTC

Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby LordHorst » Thu Nov 13, 2014 7:29 pm UTC

seems like Philae is laying sideways. or only two of three feets are touching the ground. also, it doesn't get enough sunlight which reduces the time it can be used.

edit: scientists also say that the harpooning mechanism was activated, but the harpoons didn't fire/release.

speising
Posts: 2066
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 4:54 pm UTC
Location: wien

Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby speising » Thu Nov 13, 2014 7:37 pm UTC

LordHorst wrote:seems like Philae is laying sideways. or only two of three feets are touching the ground. also, it doesn't get enough sunlight which reduces the time it can be used.

edit: scientists also say that the harpooning mechanism was activated, but the harpoons didn't fire/release.


so, do harpoons work on comets? apparently, no.

User avatar
tms
Posts: 257
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 12:53 am UTC
Location: The Way of the Hedgehog

Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby tms » Thu Nov 13, 2014 7:44 pm UTC

geekguyandy wrote:The second bounce was only 3cm/s for 7 minutes, without much more movement. It now rests on it's side with one foot up. The batteries were in two systems - one which is sufficient for all the initial science data, and another that relies on solar power to extend the mission by several months, but they now fear that the final resting place next to a cliff wall will only provide 1.5hrs sun/day compared to the 6hr/day the planned landing site would have provided.

That's comet days, so almost 3 hours of sun per Earth day.
- No, son. I said 'duck'.
- Duck duck duck duck! Duck duck duck duck!

User avatar
Klear
Posts: 1965
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 8:43 am UTC
Location: Prague

Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby Klear » Thu Nov 13, 2014 8:10 pm UTC

I think the harpoons will turn out to be a Chekhov's gun.
Last edited by Klear on Thu Nov 13, 2014 8:29 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Pfhorrest
Posts: 3897
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:11 am UTC
Contact:

Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby Pfhorrest » Thu Nov 13, 2014 8:14 pm UTC

Can they shoot the harpoon to lift the lander while also tethering it to the comet, allowing it to "bounce" again when it rebounds at the end of the tether line and maybe land somewhere nearby that's better than its current location? Or even (if it would be useful, and possible... not quite sure how the physics work out here) hang out at the end of the tether line, being pulled along (or swung around) by the comet without actually being on its surface?
Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of All Trades
"I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
The Codex Quaerendae (my philosophy) - The Chronicles of Quelouva (my fiction)

User avatar
Eternal Density
Posts: 5472
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:37 am UTC
Contact:

Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby Eternal Density » Thu Nov 13, 2014 10:02 pm UTC

Philae: "I wonder where I'll bounce next."
Play the game of Time! castle.chirpingmustard.com Hotdog Vending Supplier But what is this?
In the Marvel vs. DC film-making war, we're all winners.

User avatar
ucim
Posts: 5564
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2012 3:23 pm UTC
Location: The One True Thread

Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby ucim » Thu Nov 13, 2014 10:06 pm UTC

Eternal Density wrote:Philae: "I wonder where I'll bounce next."
Grin.

Then vanish like a Cheshire cat, and not like a Heisenberg cat.

Jose
Order of the Sillies, Honoris Causam - bestowed by charlie_grumbles on NP 859 * OTTscar winner: Wordsmith - bestowed by yappobiscuts and the OTT on NP 1832 * Ecclesiastical Calendar of the Order of the Holy Contradiction * Please help addams if you can. She needs all of us.

User avatar
taixzo
Posts: 1554
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:54 am UTC
Location: The Present

Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby taixzo » Fri Nov 14, 2014 12:09 am UTC

For anyone who plays Kerbal Space Program - Scott Manley replicated the Rosetta mission in it, complete with landing. The video was recorded on Sunday, and it was strangely prophetic that his 'harpoon' failed as well: http://youtu.be/GlMRKKLGWlU
BlitzGirl the Next
BlitzGirl the Fast
Knight Temporal
Bringer of the Light

Useless utilities: Newpix clock for Mac OS X, Newpix clock for Ubuntu

Sandgarden - a relaxing experience for Time Waiters

Best wishes to GnomeAnne, iskinner, and january1may! One day you will all join me in the Present!

User avatar
rivulatus
Posts: 44
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:14 am UTC

Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby rivulatus » Fri Nov 14, 2014 12:38 am UTC

Is it just me, or does the comic now hyperlink to http://xkcd1446.org/#142?

User avatar
Klear
Posts: 1965
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 8:43 am UTC
Location: Prague

Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby Klear » Fri Nov 14, 2014 12:43 am UTC

rivulatus wrote:Is it just me, or does the comic now hyperlink to http://xkcd1446.org/#142?


It has linked there for quite some time.

User avatar
Flumble
Yes Man
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:35 pm UTC

Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby Flumble » Fri Nov 14, 2014 12:58 am UTC

What does the comet look like in true color? (I mean, after adjusting the brightness, since it has very low albedo)

Another thought: since the comet isn't that big, why didn't they give Philae a cord of 7km to wrap around it? It doesn't even have to be a strong rope, just enough to withstand the little bounces (specifically the stresses it causes in the rope) of the lander. Split the lander in two, cord in between and reel it in once the two halves are together again at the other side. :D

geekguyandy wrote:In the briefing they said that the first bounce (of nearly 2 hours) launched the craft up about 1km from the landing site, and because of the rotation of 67P and the angle of bounce, it translated about 1km away from the landing site. It initially hit at 1m/s (as planned) but the cold-gas thruster, harpoon system, and grappling system in the feet all failed, and the bounce resulted in a rebound of 38cm/s.

Argh, I hate extraterrestial motion. Normally, a vertical velocity of 38cm/s gets you 7mm off the ground for a total of 77ms "flight" time.
Moreover, Rosetta was still millions of kilometres away when entering hibernation and it slept for two-and-a-half years.

Eternal Density wrote:Philae: "I wonder where I'll bounce next."

Perhaps to someplace with mommies.

Mikeski
Posts: 869
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 7:24 am UTC
Location: Minnesota, USA

Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby Mikeski » Fri Nov 14, 2014 1:36 am UTC

Flumble wrote:Another thought: since the comet isn't that big, why didn't they give Philae a cord of 7km to wrap around it? [...] Split the lander in two, cord in between

Catching a comet with a giant set of bolas would be at least 84% as awesome as harpooning one. And now that we know comets are not harpoonable, I approve of this mission.

User avatar
Coyoty
Posts: 195
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:56 pm UTC

Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby Coyoty » Fri Nov 14, 2014 1:45 am UTC

The comet is purring. I don't think you want to harpoon something that's purring.

User avatar
Neil_Boekend
Posts: 3215
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:35 am UTC
Location: Yes.

Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby Neil_Boekend » Fri Nov 14, 2014 7:32 am UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:Can they shoot the harpoon to lift the lander while also tethering it to the comet, allowing it to "bounce" again when it rebounds at the end of the tether line and maybe land somewhere nearby that's better than its current location? Or even (if it would be useful, and possible... not quite sure how the physics work out here) hang out at the end of the tether line, being pulled along (or swung around) by the comet without actually being on its surface?

I hope they are going to try such a move, but not just yet. It would have quite a big risk of going over the escape velocity (1 m/s) and thus loosing Philae. In this position they can do some research, so I expect them to do that first. Once the battery level gets low enough that not much research can be done but the move is still possible I hope they try something to get Philae upright and in a better position. At that point not as much is lost by failing.
Mikeski wrote:A "What If" update is never late. Nor is it early. It is posted precisely when it should be.

patzer's signature wrote:
flicky1991 wrote:I'm being quoted too much!

he/him/his

User avatar
Pfhorrest
Posts: 3897
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:11 am UTC
Contact:

Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby Pfhorrest » Fri Nov 14, 2014 7:46 am UTC

Neil_Boekend wrote:It would have quite a big risk of going over the escape velocity (1 m/s) and thus loosing Philae.

That's why I was picturing the tether actually attaching to the comet as Philae is pushed away; when Philae reaches the end of the tether line, the line goes taut and Philae rebounds again, back toward the comet, to attempt another landing in a better position. Or depending on how far up the tether line can reach, and how quickly the comet is rotating (can the tether line reach out outside geos... er, uh, comet-o-synchronous orbit?), possibly swing Philae around at the end of the tether line, though I'm not sure Philae could do anything useful from that distance.
Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of All Trades
"I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
The Codex Quaerendae (my philosophy) - The Chronicles of Quelouva (my fiction)

User avatar
Neil_Boekend
Posts: 3215
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:35 am UTC
Location: Yes.

Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby Neil_Boekend » Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:02 am UTC

Yep, that is what one would hope to achieve. However, what happens if the tether doesn't hold? If they would attempt it now valuable research time would be lost. Better to try it when there isn't as much to lose.
Mikeski wrote:A "What If" update is never late. Nor is it early. It is posted precisely when it should be.

patzer's signature wrote:
flicky1991 wrote:I'm being quoted too much!

he/him/his

User avatar
geekguyandy
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 5:50 pm UTC

Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby geekguyandy » Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:19 am UTC

Neil_Boekend wrote:Better to try it when there isn't as much to lose.


Shouldn't take too long. They were claiming that there was 50 hours of battery power.

User avatar
Flado
Posts: 230
Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:38 pm UTC
Location: Lost in Time on NP 1084/1947; Schizoblitzed NP1156-1170
Contact:

Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby Flado » Fri Nov 14, 2014 11:48 am UTC

eidako wrote:Edit: and now she's linking back here.

And now he's linking back there:
http://xkcd.com/1446/
Patriarch of the Western Paradox Church (ret'd)
-
All the stars are dust on my screen -- Marsh'n
The best computer game is a compiler. -- Exodies
I thought I was wrong, but it turned out I was mistaken. -- ucim
You have to grow older. You need not grow up. -- bmonk

arcanmster
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2010 7:00 pm UTC
Location: Belgium

Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby arcanmster » Fri Nov 14, 2014 1:24 pm UTC

Seems like they're going to drill without the harpoons, no much battery left...

sdnelso2
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 1:11 pm UTC
Location: Saginaw, Michigan

Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby sdnelso2 » Fri Nov 14, 2014 1:54 pm UTC

Finally checking back in here to say, thanks for all the updates! It's like a curated news feed for all things Philae and Rosetta. I was gone all day at school and working on an extremely frustrating programming project, so I missed the updates about it bouncing and re-attaching. I'm still hoping for some space harpoon action.
And thanks taixzo for the KSP video!

sdnelso2
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 1:11 pm UTC
Location: Saginaw, Michigan

Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby sdnelso2 » Fri Nov 14, 2014 2:09 pm UTC

arcanmster wrote:Seems like they're going to drill without the harpoons, no much battery left...

60 hours of battery life isn't much, but here's to hoping it's enough. I'm a little concerned about how they're even gonna drill. They aren't anchored down and it certainly seems like Philae is sitting at an unstable angle.

User avatar
orthogon
Posts: 2690
Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 7:52 am UTC
Location: The Airy 1830 ellipsoid

Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby orthogon » Fri Nov 14, 2014 2:30 pm UTC

tms wrote:
geekguyandy wrote:The second bounce was only 3cm/s for 7 minutes, without much more movement. It now rests on it's side with one foot up. The batteries were in two systems - one which is sufficient for all the initial science data, and another that relies on solar power to extend the mission by several months, but they now fear that the final resting place next to a cliff wall will only provide 1.5hrs sun/day compared to the 6hr/day the planned landing site would have provided.

That's comet days, so almost 3 hours of sun per Earth day.

Poor thing. I start getting SAD around this time of year, but I should be grateful that at least I'm not directly solar powered.
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

User avatar
Whizbang
The Best Reporter
Posts: 2238
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:50 pm UTC
Location: New Hampshire, USA

Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby Whizbang » Fri Nov 14, 2014 2:31 pm UTC

5P5QuV_large.jpg

User avatar
Klear
Posts: 1965
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 8:43 am UTC
Location: Prague

Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby Klear » Fri Nov 14, 2014 2:42 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:Poor thing. I start getting SAD around this time of year, but I should be grateful that at least I'm not directly solar powered.


Yeah, being Batman is way better, anyway.

Snagglepuss
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:57 pm UTC

Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby Snagglepuss » Fri Nov 14, 2014 3:02 pm UTC

May I just say: Damn you, Randall, for making me (and probably most of us) believe that Rovers and Landers have human feelings and emotions. I'm so sad that poor little Philae is lying on it's side, doing its job as good as it could.

User avatar
Klear
Posts: 1965
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 8:43 am UTC
Location: Prague

Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby Klear » Fri Nov 14, 2014 3:24 pm UTC

Snagglepuss wrote:May I just say: Damn you, Randall, for making me (and probably most of us) believe that Rovers and Landers have human feelings and emotions. I'm so sad that poor little Philae is lying on it's side, doing its job as good as it could.


I think he was trying to portray Philae as more excited to be there, brave, not so heartbreaking as Spirit.

It didn't work.

sdnelso2
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 1:11 pm UTC
Location: Saginaw, Michigan

Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby sdnelso2 » Fri Nov 14, 2014 4:39 pm UTC

Klear wrote:
Snagglepuss wrote:May I just say: Damn you, Randall, for making me (and probably most of us) believe that Rovers and Landers have human feelings and emotions. I'm so sad that poor little Philae is lying on it's side, doing its job as good as it could.


I think he was trying to portray Philae as more excited to be there, brave, not so heartbreaking as Spirit.

It didn't work.

"Battery power running low. Can't charge using my solar panels. But I've got to send this drill results. A good robot would be able to send these results, a good robot like ESA wanted."
"Hey Earth, did you get my transmission?"
"... can I go home now?"
"..."

User avatar
Coyoty
Posts: 195
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:56 pm UTC

Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby Coyoty » Fri Nov 14, 2014 4:54 pm UTC

Philae, Philae, give us your answer, do...

Burton
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:39 pm UTC

Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby Burton » Fri Nov 14, 2014 5:09 pm UTC

Hey guys,

There is a "writing prompt" on Reddit this morning, that you live on the comet and Rosetta is coming.
I wrote a story vaguely based on the ramblings in this thread (and the comic itself). It was fun to write, even if it doesn't make much sense. I hope you enjoy it:

http://www.reddit.com/r/WritingPrompts/comments/2m9zyx/wp_you_live_on_comet_67p_and_rosetta_has_arrived/

User avatar
geekguyandy
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 5:50 pm UTC

Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby geekguyandy » Fri Nov 14, 2014 5:41 pm UTC

From the updates this morning, a woman from the battery team claimed that the solar panels and images now indicate that Philae is on all three lander feet, and has not moved since the first panorama was taken. I'm a bit confused how this is possible based on what was reported before. I'm guessing that the talk of drilling must mean that it's in a proper position as well. Now they just think it's located between a wall and a rock, and not receiving much solar power. There's a bad situation where the batteries have to be warm enough to be useful, but it takes power to warm them up of course. Currently it is not receiving enough light for this to happen, so it will likely run out of power and be unable to recharge.

"Still no plan to execute the harpoons"
Last edited by geekguyandy on Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:01 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
orthogon
Posts: 2690
Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 7:52 am UTC
Location: The Airy 1830 ellipsoid

Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby orthogon » Fri Nov 14, 2014 5:49 pm UTC

It's between a rock and a hard place, you say?
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

sdnelso2
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 1:11 pm UTC
Location: Saginaw, Michigan

Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby sdnelso2 » Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:48 pm UTC

Any updates? It got so quiet around here.

User avatar
Whizbang
The Best Reporter
Posts: 2238
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:50 pm UTC
Location: New Hampshire, USA

Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby Whizbang » Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:49 pm UTC

Shhh... Philae is sleeping.

User avatar
geekguyandy
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 5:50 pm UTC

Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby geekguyandy » Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:52 pm UTC

sdnelso2 wrote:Any updates? It got so quiet around here.


Still no change on the image. Alt-text is still [LIVE]. Hmm

sdnelso2
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 1:11 pm UTC
Location: Saginaw, Michigan

Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby sdnelso2 » Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:58 pm UTC

geekguyandy wrote: Still no change on the image. Alt-text is still [LIVE]. Hmm

I don't know if it's worth a redraw or not, but based on what we've seen, I feel like Philae should be in a bit more of a crater / cave / not out in the open. Then again, we don't really know where he is. I hope he wakes up again, it would seem unresolved if he just fell silent to Rosetta's increasingly urgent calls. Especially after the 10 years they had together.

arcanmster
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2010 7:00 pm UTC
Location: Belgium

Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby arcanmster » Fri Nov 14, 2014 11:38 pm UTC

It seems that Philae is back online, the drilling was successful (?), and Philae was able to rotate to get a bit more solar power.
But the battery level is really really low...

User avatar
Klear
Posts: 1965
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 8:43 am UTC
Location: Prague

Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby Klear » Sat Nov 15, 2014 12:01 am UTC

That's awesome news! Now all that remains are the harpoons...

User avatar
Flumble
Yes Man
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:35 pm UTC

Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby Flumble » Sat Nov 15, 2014 12:10 am UTC

I hope there's a chance that they'll leave the lander sitting there for about a year (by then the comet is at its closest to the Sun) and then try bouncing up again and flying to a nice spot on top of a 'hill'. If that works out, Philae can try out its harpoons again and it can continue working for several years, if not decades.

Also, still waiting for a true color image of the comet. (with adjusted brightness)

User avatar
Girl-With-A-Math-Fetish
Posts: 205
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:02 am UTC
Location: The Complex Plane in the Mandelbrot Set
Contact:

Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby Girl-With-A-Math-Fetish » Sat Nov 15, 2014 2:36 am UTC

I drew a little picture xkcd style a bit earlier today... because poor Philae...
:c
Dammit, Randall!
Anthropomorphizing Philae is making her potential loss agonizing.

"Rosetta? Are you there? Please help me... I'm scared... I'm dying and I'm scared... please... please... please..."
Image
I'm sexually attracted to the International Space Station. You have now had your daily dose of Internet.


Return to “Individual XKCD Comic Threads”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: mrob27 and 34 guests