[SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Pfhorrest » Mon Mar 02, 2015 5:04 am UTC

Quercus wrote:Apologies for double-posting, but it's clearer that way. I've just come up with a pretty good analogy for my current thoughts on my gender identity.

If someone says they are an "Audi driver" that could mean one of two things in the extreme cases:

  1. They strongly prefer to drive Audi's over any other car.
  2. They happen to own an Audi, but another car would suit them just as well.

When I say "I'm male" I'm pretty much using that in sense "2". Is there a word for that? Something like gender-apathetic maybe? It sounds pretty similar to what Killerofsheep is expressing.

I really like this analogy (and find it suits me very well too).

And analogy I like to use myself is a city divided by a wall. Crossing that wall has historically been a dangerous rsiky and temporary prank. Recently it has become possible to emigrate to the other city permanantly at great expense and difficlty. I was born on one side of that wall and don't hate it there, there're familiar things that I like about it, but which side of the wall I live on doesn't define me, and I'd like to visit the other side casually and enjoy the things there are to enjoy there, maybe even live there a while, but I don't want to have to abandon the neighborhood I'm comfortable and familiar with forever to do it. I just wish there wasn't that damn wall there and people could move freely around the city as they liked, without being defined by which half of it they happen to live in a the moment.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Quercus » Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:41 am UTC

Sungura wrote:Bi erasure...not heard that term. I take it to mean kinda the exclusion because of not having a hard set of preference? For example: my mom knows I am bi, but when I told her my SO is male, all of a sudden "i'm not bi anymore".

Yeh, that's one of the most common forms of bi erasure, but it can go up to the level of denying bisexuality exists at all.

I am potentially starting (in beginning stages) a relationship with a girlfriend so I am SOOO tempted later this year when my family has a reunion to just bring them both. Because I'm tired of not being accepted - much less seen - for who I am. May as well just blow their minds all at once, right?

Yay for new girlfriend! And I'd love it if you pulled off the reunion thing - obviously I can't say whether or not it would be the right thing for you though.

Incidentally your relationship structure is one that really appeals to me, and it's absolutely lovely to hear about that sort of thing working well.


Anyway, it is helpful to know others don't really have strong feelings for their assigned sex and would be fine with other pronouns but not so strongly they wish to fully switch or even want to.

That's helpful for me too - I've never really had strong feelings for my assigned sex and as a kid I didn't really realise that a "strong internal sense of maleness/femaleness" was a thing for lots of people. I acknowledged that it was when I learned about gender dysphoria and transgenderism, so it's nice to know that there's other people around who feel similarly to me.

I still don't know what to do about it though. I like ties. Maybe I should start wearing the couple I have but I need some collared shirts for that. Maybe I should get some. But fitted shirts of hell of hard to find to fit me right and would probably take custom tailoring - so again....it falls back to not worth the trouble.

If you do decide to get some collared shirts, you might consider getting some with link cuffs (either single or double as you prefer). Then you can wear cufflinks - cufflinks are snazzy.

Pfhorrest wrote:
Quercus wrote:Apologies for double-posting, but it's clearer that way. I've just come up with a pretty good analogy for my current thoughts on my gender identity.

If someone says they are an "Audi driver" that could mean one of two things in the extreme cases:

  1. They strongly prefer to drive Audi's over any other car.
  2. They happen to own an Audi, but another car would suit them just as well.

When I say "I'm male" I'm pretty much using that in sense "2". Is there a word for that? Something like gender-apathetic maybe? It sounds pretty similar to what Killerofsheep is expressing.

I really like this analogy (and find it suits me very well too).

And analogy I like to use myself is a city divided by a wall. Crossing that wall has historically been a dangerous rsiky and temporary prank. Recently it has become possible to emigrate to the other city permanantly at great expense and difficlty. I was born on one side of that wall and don't hate it there, there're familiar things that I like about it, but which side of the wall I live on doesn't define me, and I'd like to visit the other side casually and enjoy the things there are to enjoy there, maybe even live there a while, but I don't want to have to abandon the neighborhood I'm comfortable and familiar with forever to do it. I just wish there wasn't that damn wall there and people could move freely around the city as they liked, without being defined by which half of it they happen to live in a the moment.

That's a good analogy. I'm almost the same, but not quite. I'm happy living where I'm living in that city, and although I have no particular aversion to moving, I am not sufficiently motivated to to so given the hassle and expense of it. I really like the way the "other side" decorate their houses though, and would like to incorporate some of that into my house. I also wish that bloody wall would go away.

P.S. I do find myself semi-regularly having dreams (as in actual, while-sleeping dreams) where I'm female, or at least have some female characteristics (e.g. boobs and long hair). I like them, they're kind of a fun way to be able to explore this stuff without having to worry about any real-world complications. The idea (I can't remember which Eastern philosophy this comes from) of having a kind of internally intertwined maleness and femaleness is also one I find very appealing. Lots of times that idea is presented in what I find to be a problematic way (male is active, aggressive and energetic, female is passive, receptive and graceful), but I find the core idea, without those connotations, to be a useful tool for thinking about stuff.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Wolby » Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:16 pm UTC

Quercus wrote:I guess my first question is - any suggestions of stuff I could try? I realise that gender signifiers are unfortunately pretty well engrained in most people's judgement of aesthetics, so I'm looking for things that will look somewhat harmonious on a 6ft bearded guy with features that tend towards "rugged", rather than look like a guy trying out "girl stuff" for a joke. I'm thinking that things that are fairly bold and colourful would be best from that perspective, like blue, green or purple nail polish, or a big sunflower in my hair.


When you said that, the first thing I thought of was someone who posts a lot on Lookbook: http://lookbook.nu/blue245ti Maybe not the place you want to start, but he combines skirts, scrunchies, and what I think of as geologist wear (hiking boots, fleece, beard, etc.) in a surprisingly harmonious way.

I like the city-divided-by-a-wall metaphor, though it's not exactly my experience. I can empathize with people who want the wall torn down, but the only people I've ever been able to relate to are the ones who spend most of their time in secret tunnels they have dug underneath the wall. (The tunnels started rough and precarious and most of them still are, but parts of it are getting well-travelled enough that some people talk about moving down there permanently.)

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Pfhorrest » Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:40 pm UTC

Quercus wrote:
Sungura wrote:Bi erasure...not heard that term. I take it to mean kinda the exclusion because of not having a hard set of preference? For example: my mom knows I am bi, but when I told her my SO is male, all of a sudden "i'm not bi anymore".

Yeh, that's one of the most common forms of bi erasure, but it can go up to the level of denying bisexuality exists at all.

Yeah. There are people who say for example that bisexuals are gay people in denial, or straight people with some fetish or kink (or just doing it for the attention, etc), things like that.

When I mentioned it earlier I did mean more like what Sungura is saying, though; but really, the "bi the way" trope is more what I meant. Basically everybody in person usually just assumes I'm straight, not because I'm closeted at all but just because I don't generally talk about my sex life much. The only people who realize I'm bi(/pan) are sexual/romantic partners, close friends who've known me a long time, or people in the internet like you all who I talk about sexuality etc with.

That's helpful for me too - I've never really had strong feelings for my assigned sex and as a kid I didn't really realise that a "strong internal sense of maleness/femaleness" was a thing for lots of people. I acknowledged that it was when I learned about gender dysphoria and transgenderism, so it's nice to know that there's other people around who feel similarly to me.

While on the topic of bi(/pan)sexual erasure, I feel like I've encountered a lot of bi(/pan)gender erasure too, even (or especially) in LGBT communities, that relates to this thing about not realizing some non-trans people are more strongly attached to / self-identified with their birth sex than others like you're talking about. Some people have tried to insist that I am cis because I don't have gender dysphoria and don't mind being the sex I am, which seems to erase the big difference between people like myself and lots of other men who seem like (or explicitly say that) they really really really absolutely do not under any circumstances ever ever ever jesus fuck no please no want to be even the slightest bit more feminine (or less masculine) than they are now. When I was younger I too didn't really realize that that was the case (that some guys were like that), as the only guys I really talked much about sexuality with in my youth were ones who, at the very least, would be interested in experiencing what it was like to be a woman if there weren't huge hurdles involved; not that they were all really bi- or pangendered, but were at least a little curious and interested and not strongly averse to it. It never occurred to me back then that some people would have something like the reverse of gender dysphoria, an extremely strong aversion to being anything besides the sex they already are, and that seems as different from me as actual gender dysphoria does, so I don't like being lumped together with people like that like there's no difference.

And that kind of thinking (of my younger self, and people who still have that mentality) seems very similar to the kind of thinking which says if you're interested at all in someone of the same sex or insufficiently interested in the opposite sex, you must be "gay", and otherwise you are straight, completely erasing a whole spectrum of neither-gay-nor-straight possibilities (pansexual, bisexual, asexual, etc). Except kind of inverted, now that I think about it, if gay:trans::straight:cis is the analogy, because the assumption there seems to be that if you're not going full out to transition to the opposite sex, you're just cis, maybe with some kind of kink or fetish or just doing it for the attention, etc.

That's a good analogy. I'm almost the same, but not quite. I'm happy living where I'm living in that city, and although I have no particular aversion to moving, I am not sufficiently motivated to to so given the hassle and expense of it. I really like the way the "other side" decorate their houses though, and would like to incorporate some of that into my house. I also wish that bloody wall would go away.

To be clear in my analogy, the wall is supposed to represent the hassle and expense of moving from one side of the city to the other, whether to move move (pack up all your stuff and live there) or just walk-over-and-back-again move. And of course not all of that hassle and expense is social; some of it is, but much of the wall is built out of physical, technological, biological bricks. Maybe a wall isn't the best metaphor; a canyon or something might be better, a preexisting natural feature which limits movement between the two areas, that we've recently begun to build bridges across. There are other social problems like, as you say, people on one side of the gorge being expected to decorate their houses (and speak and dress and otherwise behave) a certain way, and people on the other side a different way, when really there's no good reason why anyone on either side couldn't behave either (or neither) way. But that's more of a feminist / gender-egalitarian analogy. The gorge is more about a gender identity analogy, though it's closely related of course. I'm someone from the north side of the gorge who likes a lot of things about both the way people south of the gorge do things and also just the physical geography down that way, though I don't mind so much either the culture or geography up here on the north side either; but I'm tired of people saying to live like a northerner or get out (across the expensive scary toll bridge over the gorge) and never come back if I really like the south so much, and I'd really like them to just fill that gorge in completely some day both to dissolve all these north-south schisms but also because ideally I'd like to live right there where that gorge is right now, enjoy the things I like most about both climates, and have it seem normal and natural that I do things sometimes in a more northerly way and sometimes in a more southerly way.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Wolby » Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:12 pm UTC

I understand why some people feel strongly about dysphoria not mattering, but I don't entirely agree. (spoiler in case this is too debate-y for the space---I'm not sure)
Spoiler:
You don't have to be enthusiastic or emphatic about the way you were assigned at birth to benefit from cis privilege. Hell, I benefit from cis privilege too, even though I also lack some cis privileges. While I have to worry about whether my gender expression makes my attire "unprofessional," I had to pay $10k out of pocket for an important medical procedure, and I hold my breath every time I choose a changing room at the gym, fact is that I don't fear for my life just walking down the street the way some trans women have to, that if I showed the gender marker on my ID people would apologize for chasing me out of the women's bathroom, and since I (mostly) haven't socially transitioned, people can't accidentally-on-purpose "out" me as a gender I don't identify with.


I don't know if that makes me cis or trans. Half cis, half trans, like bis are supposedly half gay and half straight? (I feel more like I'm half gay and half lesbian, haha.) I guess I'm less interested in debating the line between "cis" and "trans" than I am in talking about people's different experiences.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Quercus » Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:25 pm UTC

Wolby wrote:
Quercus wrote:I guess my first question is - any suggestions of stuff I could try? I realise that gender signifiers are unfortunately pretty well engrained in most people's judgement of aesthetics, so I'm looking for things that will look somewhat harmonious on a 6ft bearded guy with features that tend towards "rugged", rather than look like a guy trying out "girl stuff" for a joke. I'm thinking that things that are fairly bold and colourful would be best from that perspective, like blue, green or purple nail polish, or a big sunflower in my hair.


When you said that, the first thing I thought of was someone who posts a lot on Lookbook: http://lookbook.nu/blue245ti Maybe not the place you want to start, but he combines skirts, scrunchies, and what I think of as geologist wear (hiking boots, fleece, beard, etc.) in a surprisingly harmonious way.

I like the city-divided-by-a-wall metaphor, though it's not exactly my experience. I can empathize with people who want the wall torn down, but the only people I've ever been able to relate to are the ones who spend most of their time in secret tunnels they have dug underneath the wall. (The tunnels started rough and precarious and most of them still are, but parts of it are getting well-travelled enough that some people talk about moving down there permanently.)


Thanks for the link! I think it's going to be a while before I can get over how unexpected the skirts look, given my cultural experience, but the scrunchies, and the multicoloured tights that he wears in one of the photos look awesome. That's the sort of thing I was meaning about the bright colours.

On an unrelated note I've just changed my OkCupid orientation from "straight" to "heteroflexible" (the closest option they have to "2 on the Kinsey scale", although my impression is that heteroflexible more usually describes "1 on the Kinsey scale"), and my looking for from "women" to "everyone". It feels good.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Pfhorrest » Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:43 pm UTC

Yeah Wolby, I'm not disputing that people like myself still get to enjoy cis privilege. Just saying that that that's kind of like how bi/pansexual people get to enjoy straight privilege a lot of the time, which doesn't make bi/pansexuality not a thing worth distinguishing from heterosexuality; or analogously, make bi/pangenderedness not a thing to distinguish from cisgenderedness.

Quercus wrote:On an unrelated note I've just changed my OkCupid orientation from "straight" to "heteroflexible" (the closest option they have to "2 on the Kinsey scale", although my impression is that heteroflexible more usually describes "1 on the Kinsey scale"), and my looking for from "women" to "everyone". It feels good.

I haven't looked on OKC in almost three years, and they used to just have straight/gay/bi. Sounds like they have more options there now; could you say what they all are?
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Quercus » Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:55 pm UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:Yeah Wolby, I'm not disputing that people like myself still get to enjoy cis privilege. Just saying that that that's kind of like how bi/pansexual people get to enjoy straight privilege a lot of the time, which doesn't make bi/pansexuality not a thing worth distinguishing from heterosexuality; or analogously, make bi/pangenderedness not a thing to distinguish from cisgenderedness.

Quercus wrote:On an unrelated note I've just changed my OkCupid orientation from "straight" to "heteroflexible" (the closest option they have to "2 on the Kinsey scale", although my impression is that heteroflexible more usually describes "1 on the Kinsey scale"), and my looking for from "women" to "everyone". It feels good.

I haven't looked on OKC in almost three years, and they used to just have straight/gay/bi. Sounds like they have more options there now; could you say what they all are?


Okay, for orientation options you get straight/gay/bi/more options. If you click more options you get to pick up to five of the following:

  • Straight
  • Gay
  • Bisexual
  • Asexual
  • Demisexual
  • Heteroflexible
  • Homoflexible
  • Lesbian
  • Pansexual
  • Queer
  • Questioning
  • Sapiosexual

For gender identity options there's a load of new ones too These are sufficiently new that not many people are using them -I think you can only pick them when you make a new profile (I've copied them from the filtering options):

Women
Men
Agender
Androgynous
Bigender
Cis Man
Cis Woman
Genderfluid
Genderqueer
Gender Nonconforming
Hijra
Intersex
Non-binary
Other
Pangender
Transfeminine
Transgender
Transmasculine
Transsexual
Trans Man
Trans Woman
Two Spirit
Last edited by Quercus on Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:53 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Pfhorrest » Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:36 pm UTC

Oh that's cool. Way more inclusive than it used to be. I assume you're allowed to pick multiple of the gender identity options? Because there seem to be a lot of overlap between some of them. Do you know if, for example, someone who marked themselves as "woman" and "genderfluid" would show up in a search result for people searching for "women" but not explicitly searching for "genderfluid"? I would hope so, as otherwise marking yourself with less-common identifies might make you invisible to people who would be fine with you as you are but aren't (and maybe don't know to be) explicitly searching for exactly someone like you, which would be sad.

EDIT: Typo correction, "example" -> "exactly".
Last edited by Pfhorrest on Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:32 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Quercus » Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:41 pm UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:Oh that's cool. Way more inclusive than it used to be. I assume you're allowed to pick multiple of the gender identity options? Because there seem to be a lot of overlap between some of them.


Actually I've now worked out how to change gender on OkC - I was clicking on the wrong edit button; and yes, you can choose up to five gender options, just as you can choose up to five orientations.

Do you know if, for example, someone who marked themselves as "woman" and "genderfluid" would show up in a search result for people searching for "women" but not explicitly searching for "genderfluid"?


I think so - I know that somone identifying as "a genderfluid, genderqueer woman" appeared even when I unchecked "women" in the filtering options, and I have no indication that the woman and man labels are treated differently to any of the others.

If you pick anything other than straight in the orientation options there's a checkbox so you can choose to not see or be seen by straight people even if they search for non-straight people, but that's the only restriction on visability I know of. I presume that's to cut down on harassment - like straight men asking lesbians for threesomes and other such bullcrap.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby rath358 » Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:25 am UTC

There is a drop down to choose either "Include me in searches for men" or "include me in searches for women"

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Sungura » Wed Mar 04, 2015 4:17 am UTC

I looove the cufflink idea!
And that is a good analogy with the wall. Yes, it would be nice to have no boundary at all.

I don't know if this is the right place to ask - but does anyone know where one could find cheap collared fitted shirts for busty people? I could dart in the sides but I'd need a 45" chest.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Quercus » Wed Mar 04, 2015 10:03 am UTC

Glad you like the cufflink idea. You're a caver, right? What do you think of these working carabiner cufflinks:
Spoiler:
Image

Sorry, I'm afraid I can't help with the shirts - I only know stuff relevant to the UK.


---------------------------------------------------------
Since switching my OkC from "straight, looking for women" to "heteroflexible, looking for everyone" I have had 13 "likes" from men in two days. I'd normally get about 1 like from a woman every two weeks or so. This probably just reflects the fact that many men use dating websites differently to many women, but if I'm honest I feel, as well as flattered, a tiny bit intimidated. It's slightly overwhelming - and almost makes me worried that I wouldn't be in control of the pace of things if did decide to date a man (I recognise that this is not particularly rational).

This then makes me think: crap, if that's how I feel about a potential partner "taking the lead" in things then doesn't that mean I've got some problematic unconscious assumptions about women and dating?

I'm just putting this out here mainly because it helps to write this stuff down semi-publicly - feel free to comment or not. This whole process is about equal parts fascinating, enlightening and scary.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Pfhorrest » Wed Mar 04, 2015 7:42 pm UTC

Quercus wrote:Since switching my OkC from "straight, looking for women" to "heteroflexible, looking for everyone" I have had 13 "likes" from men in two days. I'd normally get about 1 like from a woman every two weeks or so. This probably just reflects the fact that many men use dating websites differently to many women, but if I'm honest I feel, as well as flattered, a tiny bit intimidated. It's slightly overwhelming - and almost makes me worried that I wouldn't be in control of the pace of things if did decide to date a man (I recognise that this is not particularly rational).

This then makes me think: crap, if that's how I feel about a potential partner "taking the lead" in things then doesn't that mean I've got some problematic unconscious assumptions about women and dating?

I'm just putting this out here mainly because it helps to write this stuff down semi-publicly - feel free to comment or not. This whole process is about equal parts fascinating, enlightening and scary.

I always had myself listed as bisexual back when I was on OKC, and I also tended to get a lot more interest from men than women, which also made me feel uncomfortable in ways that confused me. For me, I thought that part of it might have been that back then I wasn't sure if I was romantically interested in men, as my thoughts of romance were largely wrapped up in very heteronormative archetypes and I just didn't get that magical Disney princess movie feeling from the thought of being with a guy. (Nowadays I don't get that Disney-esque magic feeling with women either, my concepts of romance have changed drastically, so maybe that wouldn't be a problem to me if I ever end up single again). So I would only really be interested in a guy for sex. And I didn't want to be the kind of person just "using" other people for sex, especially if the other men were actually romantically interested in me. The other part of it was that sex with men just seems more dangerous than sex with women somehow, from a health perspective, largely because what I want to do with men is suck them off and condoms kinda make that a lot less fun. So I was in a position where the thing that I was interested in men for was a thing that it was probably dangerous to do without being in a committed loving relationship, and I wasn't sure if I would be into that part of it, and didn't want to hurt someone else emotionally by stringing them along through that part just waiting until I felt safe about the sex.


On a completely unrelated note, I'm wondering if anyone here can recommend a good place to get inexpensive dresses that fit a very large frame. (I'm 6'2" or 6'3"). Two days ago I came across the concept of a "t-shirt dress" and thought that that might be something I could actually be comfortable wearing out in public, as over pants it could very well look like plausibly just a very long shirt, and so eliminate the man-in-a-dress phenomenon and make me look more gender ambiguous, possibly man-in-a-really-long-shirt or possibly tall-muscular-woman-in-a-dress. I found and bought this dress in two sizes, XL and 2XL, figuring the 2XL would easily fit me and the XL might still function as a regular shirt if nothing else, or as a better fit if the 2XL was too large. But just the 2XL is too small... it fits around my torso fine (though the sleeves feel a bit too tight for my biceps), but isn't nearly long enough; without pants everything would be hanging out, even if I didn't have any dangly bits to literally hang. But I love the way it shapes my upper body (it really accentuates my breasts and flattens my tummy… with my hair down and my face shaved, and a skirt on the bottom, I look almost like a natural woman, woo!), and I still love the concept of something like this that's long enough to cover the important stuff (even though I'll probably always wear it with pants when I go outside, I'd like to wear it alone inside and have it cover my butt and legs enough that the rough fabric of my chair isn't scratching me), so I'd love to find something like it that's big enough for that. Any suggestions?
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Wonderbolt » Wed Mar 04, 2015 10:04 pm UTC

Huh, odd. I'm 6'2" and I've never had trouble with dresses. In fact I don't think I've tried a single one that didn't fit me. But maybe that's just because of NL sizes? (This might be a problem when I move, hm.) The 'easiest' way (at least from a fitting perspective) would be to just get into a store and see what fits you, but I can understand that not being comfy.

That's a cute dress, btw. :)

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Quercus » Wed Mar 04, 2015 10:10 pm UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:
Quercus wrote:Since switching my OkC from "straight, looking for women" to "heteroflexible, looking for everyone" I have had 13 "likes" from men in two days. I'd normally get about 1 like from a woman every two weeks or so. This probably just reflects the fact that many men use dating websites differently to many women, but if I'm honest I feel, as well as flattered, a tiny bit intimidated. It's slightly overwhelming - and almost makes me worried that I wouldn't be in control of the pace of things if did decide to date a man (I recognise that this is not particularly rational).

This then makes me think: crap, if that's how I feel about a potential partner "taking the lead" in things then doesn't that mean I've got some problematic unconscious assumptions about women and dating?

I'm just putting this out here mainly because it helps to write this stuff down semi-publicly - feel free to comment or not. This whole process is about equal parts fascinating, enlightening and scary.

I always had myself listed as bisexual back when I was on OKC, and I also tended to get a lot more interest from men than women, which also made me feel uncomfortable in ways that confused me. For me, I thought that part of it might have been that back then I wasn't sure if I was romantically interested in men, as my thoughts of romance were largely wrapped up in very heteronormative archetypes and I just didn't get that magical Disney princess movie feeling from the thought of being with a guy. (Nowadays I don't get that Disney-esque magic feeling with women either, my concepts of romance have changed drastically, so maybe that wouldn't be a problem to me if I ever end up single again). So I would only really be interested in a guy for sex. And I didn't want to be the kind of person just "using" other people for sex, especially if the other men were actually romantically interested in me. The other part of it was that sex with men just seems more dangerous than sex with women somehow, from a health perspective, largely because what I want to do with men is suck them off and condoms kinda make that a lot less fun. So I was in a position where the thing that I was interested in men for was a thing that it was probably dangerous to do without being in a committed loving relationship, and I wasn't sure if I would be into that part of it, and didn't want to hurt someone else emotionally by stringing them along through that part just waiting until I felt safe about the sex.


Thanks for this, it's helpful to know that other people have had similar feelings to me.

At the moment I'm in a little bit of the opposite situation than then one you were in, although the outcome is much the same: I'm more-or-less certain that I'm romantically interested in men, but less certain that I'm sexually interested in them. I suspect that I might be demisexual with men, but not with women if that makes sense - I have purely sexual fantasies (in addition to romantic fantasies) involving women, but only romantic fantasies (that include sex as part of the romance) involving men. Porn involving women turns me on, gay porn doesn't. This is complicated a bit by the fact that I've only had one sexual encounter - a one night stand with a women, which was fun at the time, but I found emotionally horrible afterwards, so the actual experience I have to draw on is minimal.

Edit: Thought that made me laugh - does only being demisexual with some of the people I'm attracted to make me hemidemisexual?

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Pfhorrest » Thu Mar 05, 2015 1:53 am UTC

Wonderbolt wrote:Huh, odd. I'm 6'2" and I've never had trouble with dresses. In fact I don't think I've tried a single one that didn't fit me. But maybe that's just because of NL sizes? (This might be a problem when I move, hm.) The 'easiest' way (at least from a fitting perspective) would be to just get into a store and see what fits you, but I can understand that not being comfy.

I'm not sure what "NL" stands for. Is that a place? Do you have different kinds of sizes there?

Anyway, yeah, I've had good success with buying dresses in person before, the limited amount I have done so; bought one skirt and one dress at plus-size stores for special occasions where I had an excuse to be buying them, and then just saw one random dress on a rack at a department store and impulse-bought it without trying it on and it worked out great. But the selection has never been great (both times I went out I managed to find one thing I actually liked between several different stores), so I'd much rather shop online. Problem there is I have no idea what these sizes actually mean in terms of real measurements. So I was hoping someone knew somewhere online that had good selection, good prices, and actual measurements listed so I don't just have to guess whether I need an XL or a 2XL and then find out what I really needed was a 3- or 4XL.

That's a cute dress, btw. :)

Thanks!

Quercus wrote:Edit: Thought that made me laugh - does only being demisexual with some of the people I'm attracted to make me hemidemisexual?

That made me laugh too. :-)
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby NovaNatalia » Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:09 am UTC

I'm guessing 'NL' is 'Netherlands'
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby 12obin » Thu Mar 05, 2015 7:34 am UTC

I'm also a bit confused about whether this desire to mix-and-match male and female signifiers is an indication that I'm questioning my gender identity or just questioning the role of gender signifiers in society


It may help you to consider that this is a false dichotomy, and these things can be heavily and even inextricably intertwined. Questioning things like patriarchy (the supremacy of the masculine) and oppositional sexism (the idea that everything feminine is un-masculine and vice versa) will naturally lead to questioning your own gender to some extent because you'll find that your concept of what a man is has been based on faulty premises, and equally questioning your own gender can give you perspective on the flaws of patriarchy and binarism.

---

Anyway, on the broader subject, I officially have no preferred pronouns and I politely refuse to give any when asked. I changed them constantly and I hated correcting people because I had no convictions about it myself, so I have retired from the pronoun game. I am very careful about other people's pronouns, I understand that it's very important to loads of folks and I think that it's the most basic and minimal degree of respect to use somebody's correct pronouns. I just don't care about my own.
If anybody calls me a "girl" I say that I'm not a girl, and sometimes if somebody refers to me a lot by feminine terms beyond just "she", I will say something. "Man", " woman", and "boy" all feel accurate. "Male" and "female" both feel inaccurate and inadequate, though I mean, I'm not intersex. I just understand too much about biology to be taken in by fake ideas.
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Something I think is fun is how you get different structures.
He him his his
She her her hers
Each has a word that shows up in two positions in grammar, but it's a different pair for each. Xe/xem/xyr/xyrs follows neither because all four are different. Some follow the pattern of he or she. I think that can be a way of nodding to a gender that maybe feels adjacent to your own? Like, a demigirl could use the pattern of how the she pronouns work or a boi could pattern them after he.

Appendix: http://vadamagazine.com/29/09/2014/opin ... -narrative

I'm a wheelchair user, and this article by my Twitter friend Markie says a lot that resonates with me, though the specifics of our genders are very different, and my disability doesn't have a neurological component so that bit doesn't apply to me.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Quercus » Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:49 am UTC

12obin wrote:
I'm also a bit confused about whether this desire to mix-and-match male and female signifiers is an indication that I'm questioning my gender identity or just questioning the role of gender signifiers in society


It may help you to consider that this is a false dichotomy, and these things can be heavily and even inextricably intertwined. Questioning things like patriarchy (the supremacy of the masculine) and oppositional sexism (the idea that everything feminine is un-masculine and vice versa) will naturally lead to questioning your own gender to some extent because you'll find that your concept of what a man is has been based on faulty premises, and equally questioning your own gender can give you perspective on the flaws of patriarchy and binarism.


Thanks, that's good stuff to think about. I think the most important thing for me is keeping an open mind for a while and exploring stuff. I tend to like to classify things, or at least position stuff within a "space", because I have a naturally "neat" brain, so accepting that I'm not entirely certain what I am (gender or sexuality wise) is weird to me. I think it's a good sort of weird though.

I'm hopefully going to be handing in my PhD thesis next week, so once that's done I'll have a lot more time to think about this stuff. I've got the advantage of very open-minded parents, so I'm pretty sure they'd be fine with me telling them something like "I think I might be bi and possibly genderqueer as well, so I'm just giving you a heads up that I'm possibly going to be dating men as well as women, and you might find me wearing nail-polish or doing other gender-transgressive stuff. I might change my mind about some/all of this, so I'll keep you posted".

My housemates are who I'm slightly more worried about - they are both gay, so that's an advantage, but I suspect that one of them is very binary-normative, both in terms of gender and orientation, so I'm not sure how she'd deal with me going to "non-standard" points in both these areas. I have a horrible suspicion that she'll view it as just me "jumping on the bandwagon" so that I can join in with gay culture.

@Sungura - sorry, I feel like I've monopolised your conversation, that's not my intent. I guess this is one of the drawbacks of a thread system. Just so your question doesn't get buried under my reams of stuff, I'm going to repost it here if that's okay. Sungura asked:
Sungura wrote:I don't know if this is the right place to ask - but does anyone know where one could find cheap collared fitted shirts for busty people? I could dart in the sides but I'd need a 45" chest.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Sungura » Thu Mar 05, 2015 8:09 pm UTC

No worries! I do not feel monopolized =)

For shirts I"m thinking I might just need to buy cheap oxford shirts in men's sizes, and dart them in. I can take in shirts easily I do it a lot as is.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Wonderbolt » Sun Mar 08, 2015 9:52 pm UTC

Sigh, I'm getting more and more attracted to guys and less and less attracted to girls and... that's actually a serious problem in my current situation. I don't think I want to go into this in public, but is there anyone in this thread I could possibly PM for some advice?

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby rath358 » Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:36 pm UTC

No advice here, but *hugs* are offered.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Bassoon » Thu Mar 12, 2015 4:21 pm UTC

I'd be willing to advise! I can't say I'll be of any help without knowing more circumstances, but I'd be happy to at least lend an ear.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Wonderbolt » Thu Mar 12, 2015 5:43 pm UTC

I think the situation kind of blew up because I couldn't hold it in anymore and is now slowly starting to get back to normal again. It's all really hard after the breakup, but... we'll get there.

Right now I'm mostly just worried about... well, I don't know how I feel about being attracted to guys. I've a lot of unsafe past feels from it all, I'm much more worried about being with one while pre-op, and... things. I'm not sure that I like that I like men, if that makes sense. :p But I guess I'll get more comfortable with it with time.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby CelticNot » Fri Mar 13, 2015 5:41 pm UTC

Had my first follow-up meeting Tuesday. Based on what I told her, the nurse was willing to send out a recommendation letter to the endo already... I could be on hormones by June. Kind of terrifying, but one odd side effect to the anti-androgens is a distinct increase in my courage. I no longer care quite so much about what other people think... this, on top of calmness and added happiness.

Now I need to think about what comes next.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Enuja » Sat Mar 14, 2015 1:45 am UTC

Yeah for the good news, ClockworkSky! (Although June sounds like a long ways away to me, you seem excited by the speed, so, yeah!)

Wonderbolt, I hope you're feeling better.

For trans folk in transition, or anyone else trying to alter and therefore judge the perceived gender of their voice: a friend of mine wrote a voice training app for Andriod that listens to your voice, and tells you what your perceived gender is, to give you feedback when working on changing the pitch of your voice. Right now it's $2, but there will be a free, ad-supported version coming out in the next few weeks. Here it is: https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... ocalGender

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Pfhorrest » Sat Mar 14, 2015 4:27 am UTC

So, kinda funny tangential story I can't think of who else to share with.

My mom is in the hospital, she's doing fine but needs to stay a few days, and tonight, a nurse spilled a vial of her (mom's) own blood all over mom's clothes, so now mom has nothing to wear for a few days. Grandma is sick and can't come lend anything. Mom's not on good terms with either of her sisters.

So... she remembered that I cross-dressed "that one time" for a Rocky show, and asked if there was any chance I had any respectable women's clothes I could bring to her when I visit tomorrow. And as it happens, with all the skirts and dresses and things I've been buying lately (which she doesn't know about), I never wear my first, kinda old-lady-looking dress anymore, and don't mind parting with it at all.

So yeah, mom called me to borrow a dress. That's a first.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby poxic » Sat Mar 14, 2015 4:57 am UTC

I'm picturing you showing up at the hospital tomorrow in a dress, handing her a second dress. "Or would you prefer the one I'm wearing? I can change..."
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby nope » Sun Mar 15, 2015 11:51 am UTC

Sockpuppet! Tricksy hormone/bodymod question in spoiler. Content warning: complaining about stuff I don't want from androgens, and discussion of genitals.

Spoiler:
Background: 27yo, afab, agender-identifying, /maybe/ leaning towards trans male but that is still really hard to think about, so let's leave the label at agender for now.

Okay, so, for the last year or so I've been thinking about acquired clitoromegaly as a deliberate body modification. (I can't link with this sockpuppet account. Paste "Clitoral enlargement methods" into wikipedia for a quite decent article.) Enlarged clitoris is a known effect of androgen hormone therapy. But I don't want a lot of the rest of the effects. Increased muscle would be awesome but fat deposits re-shaping, increased hair all over, having to shave my FACE. Do not want.

However, there are targeted hormone application methods, aiming for enlargement of the clitoris in particular. I haven't been able to find any information on instances where this method has been used without the person already using systemic hormones too. How much transfers and affects the whole system? To what degree can you obtain the desired targeted enlargement while keeping the body approximately unaffected?

I don't know if this is an impossible idea. It's so hard to find any information on it. I know some people here have investigated or proceeded with self-administration of hormones and was wondering if anyone has come across info about this kind of thing, or knows someone who has attempted it?

(Replies: spoiler or not, as you desire.)

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Monika » Sun Mar 15, 2015 11:52 am UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:So yeah, mom called me to borrow a dress. That's a first.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby XJ_0 » Mon Mar 16, 2015 10:34 pm UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:So yeah, mom called me to borrow a dress. That's a first.

There was one time when my great-grandmother wore one of my plaid button-up shirts (it was given to me from my then-boyfriend, before I was on hormones and hardly out). She had always been into dressing proper, had tons of jewelry and women's clothes (some of which she would badger me to wear), wore make-up, styled her hair, and was all-around into being and presenting as a woman. If I remember correctly, she asked for my shirt because its yellowish tone best matched the slacks she wanted to wear.

So, I find it cool and amusing to be able to share clothes like this. ^_^

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Kewangji » Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:39 pm UTC

Hi thread! I'm looking for info for a friend, which means I get to ask questions "for a friend"! Ze is pondering whether ze is really a trans woman but is not so used to talking about hir inner life/identity. I wonder if you have any resources that trans women have written about the road to Damascus, so to speak: the period where one doubts oneself about identity because of social conditioning and such. What made these women sure that this was their identity, and the like. My friend would appreciate this, and I would too.

Thanks, thread. <3
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby PM 2Ring » Wed Mar 18, 2015 1:15 am UTC

There are lots of great trans resources on Lynn Conway's website, including the kind of stories that your friend wants to read.

From http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/ ... esses.html
Lynn Conway wrote:The main purpose of these pages is to provide role models for individuals who are facing gender transition, especially young TS girls who are often desperately fearful of what the future might hold for them. This page is aimed at providing them with hope and with a wide range of diverse role models to help show them the way.

Through these pages, young transitioners may also be able to help their parents, relatives, friends and others important in their lives to understand that undergoing a gender correction does not mean living a marginalized life, and that they will be fine afterwards. In spite of the difficulties involved in such transitions, the stories on this page show that many postop women go on to live very full and happy lives.

The pages are also aimed at countering public stereotypes of women who have undergone gender corrections. No one who reads these pages and studies the many stories here can help but have a very different image of such women than those traditionally presented by the media or written about by "experts".

Readers of these pages are strongly encouraged to proactively use this material to help counter negative media stereotypes. Whenever you read a media report that misrepresents transsexual women, SEND the writer and publisher the URL for this page, and ask them if they've ever seen this website. If they answer "no", then ask them "Why not?" Ask them "Why are you publishing things that so misrepresent TS women, when there is so much counter-evidence to your views?"

Readers should also CHALLENGE any and all "experts" and "authority figures" in organized religion, in medicine, in psychiatry, in bureaucracies, in corporate personnel departments, in the legal system and in the political system in the same way. Whenever you hear "experts" say erroneous things about transsexual women, challenge those "experts" by insisting that they learn about and study these pages.

In the past, OTHERS HAVE ALWAYS SPOKEN FOR US. It's always been others: physicians, psychiatrists, religious authority figures, lawyers, "ethicists", politicians, gender counselors, and in recent years gay, lesbian, and feminist activists. All these outsider "experts" have spoken for us, each with their own axe to grind and their own "expert theories" and spins on who we are and why we are. For example, see the following pages in my website concerning the controversy surrounding a book by psychologist J. Michael Bailey's which denigrates and caricatures transsexual women: Learn about the Bailey book controversy (more)

In every case, such "experts" have known only a tiny, totally non-representative sample of "trans" women, if indeed they have known any at all. Few of these "experts" have ever known a successful postop woman. Yet they always feel free to speak "for us". They tell people how to think about us, and spin endless bizarre theories about us.

How have they gotten away with this misrepresentation? The reason is simple: Our very successes have meant that we've been almost "invisible" in the past. We've also failed by not having the courage to challenge the abusive stereotyping and misrepresentation of who we really are.

Well folks, that era is over. We're no longer going to be invisible, and we are increasingly going to "speak for ourselves".

As it turns out, the most effective way we can "speak" is by living very full, productive and happy lives. Our life stories will then speak volumes, and will help publicly shatter the old stereotypes posed by all those "experts". In the end, who we are isn't a matter of "theory" or "opinion" or "who dominates thought by shouting loudest". Instead it is simply an empirical matter of observing our real lives in the real world.

You can greatly help in this process by making these "successes" as publicly visible as you possibly can, especially among physicians, psychiatrists, religious leaders, lawyers, politicians, gender counselors, etc., and yes - also among gays, lesbians and feminists. All these outsiders who've been speaking for us need a good lesson in who we really are, and they especially need to know about the now visible, undeniable reality of our successes.


For those people unfamiliar with Lynn Conway - she literally wrote the textbook on microchip design, and her pioneering work on dynamic instruction scheduling at IBM in the 1960s makes modern computer CPUs much more efficient than they otherwise would be.

From http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/LynnsStory.html
Lynn Conway is a famed pioneer of microelectronics chip design. Her innovations during the 1970's at the Xerox Palo Alto Research Center (PARC) have impacted chip design worldwide. Many high-tech companies and computing methods have foundations in her work.

Thousands of chip designers learned their craft from Lynn's textbook Introduction to VLSI Systems, which she co-authored with Prof. Carver Mead of Caltech. Thousands more did their first VLSI design projects using the government's MOSIS prototyping system, which is based directly on Lynn's work at PARC. Much of the modern silicon chip design revolution is based on her work.

Lynn went on to win many awards and high honors, including election as a Member of the National Academy of Engineering, the highest professional recognition an engineer can receive.

#

What no one knew till recently is that Lynn also did earlier pioneering research at IBM in the 1960's. Fresh out of grad school, she invented a powerful method for issuing multiple out-of-order instructions per machine cycle in supercomputers. By solving this fundamental computer architecture problem way back in 1965, she made possible the creation of the first true superscalar computer, and participated in its design at IBM. Lynn called her invention dynamic instruction scheduling (DIS).

By the 90's, chips held enough transistors so that entire superscalar computers could be put on single chips. Lynn's DIS invention suddenly became used in almost all the powerful new PC chips, making them much more powerful than they'd otherwise have been. Lynn's work thus had yet another big impact on the modern information technology revolution.

Most computer engineers thought DIS was a generalization of decades of work, and had no idea it had been invented in 1965. It caused Lynn great angst to see her wonderful invention so widely used, and described in all the computer architecture textbooks, without anyone knowing it was her idea.

Please see the link for further info.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Kewangji » Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:26 pm UTC

That's amazing, thank you!
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Wolby » Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:26 pm UTC

nope wrote:Sockpuppet! Tricksy hormone/bodymod question in spoiler. Content warning: complaining about stuff I don't want from androgens, and discussion of genitals.

Spoiler:
Background: 27yo, afab, agender-identifying, /maybe/ leaning towards trans male but that is still really hard to think about, so let's leave the label at agender for now.

Okay, so, for the last year or so I've been thinking about acquired clitoromegaly as a deliberate body modification. (I can't link with this sockpuppet account. Paste "Clitoral enlargement methods" into wikipedia for a quite decent article.) Enlarged clitoris is a known effect of androgen hormone therapy. But I don't want a lot of the rest of the effects. Increased muscle would be awesome but fat deposits re-shaping, increased hair all over, having to shave my FACE. Do not want.

However, there are targeted hormone application methods, aiming for enlargement of the clitoris in particular. I haven't been able to find any information on instances where this method has been used without the person already using systemic hormones too. How much transfers and affects the whole system? To what degree can you obtain the desired targeted enlargement while keeping the body approximately unaffected?

I don't know if this is an impossible idea. It's so hard to find any information on it. I know some people here have investigated or proceeded with self-administration of hormones and was wondering if anyone has come across info about this kind of thing, or knows someone who has attempted it?

(Replies: spoiler or not, as you desire.)


This is a question I've thought about too, although I would be really happy about everything but the facial hair and passing more as male---I'm already at about 50/50 with strangers, and I'd like to keep it that way.

(spoiler: talking about hormones, pretty safe for work though)

Spoiler:
From what I know, the effect you want is one of the very first to show up on a regular (i.e., medium-large) testosterone dose---within a couple weeks---and it's a fairly permanent effect, though you'd see some shrinkage when you went off hormones. I'm sure it keeps growing, but I don't know how long you'd have to take T to maximize it---1-2 years at a guess, which is more than you want to do. I've heard a lot of people say that DHT cream applied to the area helps even if you're already on T, but I don't know if there's any proof. (Is that what you're referring to as the targeted treatment? I don't know if I've ever seen someone use DHT alone, but it can't be any worse that systemic T shots. Um... if you do it, you should blog about it, because inquiring minds want to know. :oops: I was tempted when a discussion came up on a listserv recently about how you have to buy DHT from overseas and don't need a prescription. IDK about health issues---you might need to get bloodwork but I really don't know.)

About undesirable changes: The amount of hair you'd get from going on T for 1-2 months would be negligible, and the other effects you mention are non-permanent---muscle mass and fat deposit changes start to fade as soon as you stopped taking it. Voice, you would want to keep tabs on, but it doesn't change *that* fast. Lots of people keep youtube video logs early in transition, so you can get an idea of changes from that.

Also, if you want to try going on T (low dose, regular dose, DHT instead, whatever), you can monitor the changes and go off as soon as stuff happens that makes you uncomfortable. Micah writes about going on and off (and on and off and...) T at Neutrois.me.

There's a group on fetlife devoted to this topic, which I poked through a year or two ago. Apparently some people make permanent changes through dedicated pumping alone (no hormones), although I wonder how much they're exaggerating.

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XJ_0
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby XJ_0 » Wed Mar 18, 2015 10:27 pm UTC

Enuja wrote:For trans folk in transition, or anyone else trying to alter and therefore judge the perceived gender of their voice: a friend of mine wrote a voice training app for Andriod that listens to your voice, and tells you what your perceived gender is, to give you feedback when working on changing the pitch of your voice. Right now it's $2, but there will be a free, ad-supported version coming out in the next few weeks. Here it is: https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... ocalGender

My partner is trying to buy this, but an error that reads "Package file was not signed properly" keeps happening, and it won't download. Do you know how to fix this?

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Enuja
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Enuja » Fri Mar 20, 2015 2:19 am UTC

I asked my friend, and got this back:
Yeah I got a bug report from someone about that today. I've updated the app and it should be fixed. If they want a quick workaround, have them go to settings->security and uncheck "verify apps" and check "unknown sources"
A quick work around might be required because Google takes a while to update the file: the corrected version is uploaded, but Google won't be downloading the new version for a few hours.

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WilliamTheConqueror
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby WilliamTheConqueror » Mon Mar 23, 2015 2:15 pm UTC

hey, it's me again!

so, i've decided i'm most definitely nonbinary (afab), but with a strong need for masculine presentation, so i've been thinking pretty seriously about starting HRT when I move to New York. however, i'm not sure if therapists will take me seriously if i'm not wanting to do the "regular transition" from female to male. because i'm nonbinary. is this a problem other nb people on hormones have encountered and if so, is there a way to work around it without getting hormones on my own? (also, if this works out, how do you get over injecting yourself with T because i'm really not okay with needles and causing myself pain)
addams wrote:Fucking Nature.

Tomlidich the second wrote:You cannot surgically graft enough middle fingers to my body to express how fed up I am with this.

Wonderbolt
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Wonderbolt » Mon Mar 23, 2015 2:59 pm UTC

Well, that depends. How do you feel about lying to therapists?

In all seriousness though, it just depends on whether you get a good therapist or a shitty one. (And I see no problem with lying to shitty therapists to get the medication you need, though obviously a more optimal situation would be to have a good therapist so you don't need to.) There's nothing wrong with what you want, so just don't let any therapist convince you otherwise. Sadly, I have no idea about the quality of therapists in NY.


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