[SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Wonderbolt » Thu Jun 25, 2015 1:20 am UTC

Carlington wrote:
Spoiler:
-BUT (and here comes the potential homophobia and transmisogyny), I am particularly disinterested in/repulsed by the idea of having sex with a person who has a penis. Which, given everything else I've said here...doesn't seem like it should be a thing. Like, I'd make out with a person regardless of gender or genitalia, and I don't feel sexual attraction really, but I specifically wouldn't have sex with a bepenised person? So maybe I'm just straight and questioning too hard? I don't know. I don't really want to be doing homophobic/transphobic/transmisogynistic things (or any bigoted things) so maybe it would be better to just ignore the rest of it and be like "Nah I'm just straight no biggie" (but I also don't really think that's right)

Spoiler:
I'm trans, and obviously this is just my two cents, but this seems totally okay to me. It's no different from not being attracted to other physical characteristics, as far as I'm concerned. (And some would consider being disinterested/repulsed by certain physical characteristics shallow, but even if we assume that's true there's the very practical matter of sex quite likely being different depending on genital configuration.) I also feel that since I personally don't like my factory standard bits, I shouldn't feel entitled to other people I'm interested in dating being totally fine with them.

The issues that tend to cause actual grrr on my end is when, assuming one's had SRS and everything, basically someone is definitely physically attracted to someone, but then when they learn about their medical history (SRS, hormones, maybe having had a beard, etc) they lose all attraction. That's something I think is less okay and definitely something I'd consider shallow. It's also not something that would apply to other physical characteristics: nobody cares if someone had bad acne during puberty if they're physically attracted to them now, but when it comes to trans people this is used as an easy excuse to make people feel okay about their internalized transphobia (feeling icky about the idea of the person they're dating 'having been a [gender assigned at birth])'.

So, to sum it all up. I definitely would be okay with you using the word straight to describe yourself. Being straight doesn't mean you have to be attracted to everyone you meet who happens to be in that category. I mean, think about any other silly thing. Let's say you don't like people wearing purple shirts (why you'd feel that way is irrelevant, though I'd be kind of surprised since purple is clearly the Best Color), that doesn't mean the straight label no longer applies because there are people of the opposite sex who happen to wear those wonderful magnificent shirts. ;)

I hope this is helpful.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby poxic » Thu Jun 25, 2015 1:35 am UTC

My $0.02:
Spoiler:
Making out vs. having sex is totally a distinction that some aces and grey-aces make. You could call yourself a panromantic grey-heterosexual or some such thing if it pleases you. Or not, if it doesn't.

I like cuddling with the opposite sex but have zero interest in the contents of anyone's trousers/skirts, and kissing doesn't do anything for me. I've never tried cuddling with the same sex but don't think I would enjoy it much. I don't think that makes me anti-lesbian, just that I'm not into girls. (Since the trousers/skirts stay on, the genital configuration doesn't matter.)

So I'm content to describe myself as a demi-heteroromantic asexual. When I can be bothered describing myself at all, that is.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby BattleMoose » Thu Jun 25, 2015 5:26 am UTC

Carlington wrote:
Spoiler:
-BUT (and here comes the potential homophobia and transmisogyny), I am particularly disinterested in/repulsed by the idea of having sex with a person who has a penis. Which, given everything else I've said here...doesn't seem like it should be a thing. Like, I'd make out with a person regardless of gender or genitalia, and I don't feel sexual attraction really, but I specifically wouldn't have sex with a bepenised person? So maybe I'm just straight and questioning too hard? I don't know. I don't really want to be doing homophobic/transphobic/transmisogynistic things (or any bigoted things) so maybe it would be better to just ignore the rest of it and be like "Nah I'm just straight no biggie" (but I also don't really think that's right)

I don't know, and writing this post was tricky, so I'm going to go to work now.


Spoiler:
I went through pretty much exactly this as I was becoming accepting of my own sexuality. It took a while but with a bit of practise I got over it. :-) I still don't and doubt I will find a male set of gentillia sexually attractive (is this weird? I don't know but I have stopped caring about it). And the sexual attraction I have for men, and I do, is pretty much about what's above the waist, physically anyway.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Sungura » Fri Jun 26, 2015 9:55 pm UTC

So...puppy? =) I bought a rainbow flag and thought it would be a good chance for a photo op with my dog.

Edraith Rainbow Flag HOld.jpg
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby poxic » Fri Jun 26, 2015 10:31 pm UTC

Edraith is adorable, though apparently not in love with the taste of flagpole. Very cute pic!
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Pfhorrest » Fri Jun 26, 2015 11:04 pm UTC

So, nobody's going to comment on the epic news from today?

Congrats to everyone here who now have one less obstacle between them and their dreams!
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby poxic » Fri Jun 26, 2015 11:41 pm UTC

That particular dream. Which, as dreams go, is a pretty damn good one.

Image
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby NovaNatalia » Fri Jun 26, 2015 11:44 pm UTC

I thought I'd share this here — it's a picture of the flags that fly at my university (it may surprise you from the quality of the photo that I am not a professional photographer). From left to right, they're the Queensland, Australian, Aboriginal, Torres Strait Islander, Trans and Rainbow flags; the latter two have been flying for at least a month.

2015-06-23 19.25.41.jpg


Also, congratulations to the Americans who can now marry! I hope the solidarity given by non-LGB queers ends up being repaid.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby poxic » Fri Jun 26, 2015 11:59 pm UTC

There's a trans flag? There's a trans flag. With a white stripe for agender and transitioning. Neato.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby NovaNatalia » Sat Jun 27, 2015 12:02 am UTC

TBH, I think the trans flag is the prettiest of the queer flags. That baby blue/pink is very aesthetic.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Carlington » Sat Jun 27, 2015 4:01 am UTC

That's really cool NovaNatalia, it's really nice to see something like that happening in Australia somewhere, restores a little of my faith in my compatriots!
Congratulations USians in-thread. Here's hoping this is the first step down the long road to equality, and double-hoping the rest of the steps follow quickly now, like a sort of high-tempo equality waltz.
Also, thanks everyone who responded with some feelings about my post before. I had only really spoken with two people about it before, and the responses were pretty solidly in conflict with each other, so seeing some more views and hearing more people's feelings and things here is making me feel a decent bit more confident. (There's no smiley here that matches the face I want to make/am making, which is just a closed-mouth, appreciative/kind-hearted smile, so imagine that face please [imagine my avatar making that face if you need a face to imagine the expression on, if it helps])
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Pfhorrest » Sat Jun 27, 2015 4:29 am UTC

poxic wrote:That particular dream. Which, as dreams go, is a pretty damn good one.

Image

Yeah, I meant all of those here for whom that is part of their dreams, not to imply that that is a dream of everyone here.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Monika » Sat Jun 27, 2015 8:47 am UTC

Carlington wrote:Here's hoping this is the first step down the long road to equality, and double-hoping the rest of the steps follow quickly now, like a sort of high-tempo equality waltz.

That would be nice. It's not impossible. After all, in Ireland, in the last weeks, at first the people changed the constitution to allow same-gender marriages, and just some days later trans people gained the right to have their gender marker changed (including on birth certificates) without any medical or psychological evaluation or any other barrier. My hope that such a thing would follow in the US (or here, in Germany) is small.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby The Mighty Thesaurus » Sun Jun 28, 2015 3:28 pm UTC

The Irish vote was the more important story.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Sungura » Wed Jul 01, 2015 8:59 pm UTC

poxic wrote:Edraith is adorable, though apparently not in love with the taste of flagpole. Very cute pic!

She promptly decided it needed chewing, but I rescued it for later photos. She just had a very serious look on her face for once.

Monika - that would be great, although I agree with your doubts. However, I did read that in detention centers now people can stay in the proper one for the gender they identify by, which is new, but the wording was kinda ahhhh uhmmm "can" but "probably the folks on the ground will say no" sort of wording so who knows how much solvency it actually has. I don't really know any further details it was just a quick news article I saw the other day shortly after the vote.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby journey » Tue Jul 14, 2015 9:51 pm UTC

Heya thread. Former fora member here (lurked a lot, posted some) who drifted away a while back. I've never posted in this thread - but here I am, with an anonymous account and everything, as I just don't know what's going on with my gender right now :? and this seems like the place to ask. Apologies for the long-ish post. Hope this is an appropriate place for it.

It started just at the end of last month. Prior to this I'd been happy to consider myself cis male. However, I was randomly browsing some comments on an article on an entirely different website, when i suddenly found myself extremely jealous of another person who had posted on account of her being female. It was there and gone again almost instantly - almost an intrusive though, like when you're standing near a ledge and suddenly think "Jump!". At first it made me laugh. But then, mostly as a joke with myself, I tried to think back to see if there were any other signs I secretly hankered to be female. To my surprise I easily came up with several, at which point I finally seriously cosidered the question. And came back with the answer 'yes'.

After which I suddenly found myself shaking and almost crying. I don't do emotion very much, so this is a big deal for me. It did far more to convince me something really was going on than just about anything else I can imagine could have. The next few days I was all over the place (luckily I as the only one at work that week, so my general uselessness didn't get noticed). The weirdest part was the day after, when for a brief period I found my reflection in the mirror physically surprising - I just somehow wasn't expecting to see a guy. That only happened for a little while, but it freaked me out significantly.

But then, just as I was getting used to the idea, the feeling started to go. It didn't fade - it seemed to flip on and off randomly. Like a torch battery flickering before it dies. I'd be very definitely female, then bang, back to male for an hour or two. Over about a week I found myself flipping to feeling female less often, until a couple of days ago when it seemed to just stop entirely. And now I'm sitting here with no clue as to what's been going on.

Does this match up with anything anyone else has heard of or experienced? The closest description I can find is that I might be bigender. But that shouldn't just hit you out of nowhere and then fade away again, should it? Or maybe it hasn't faded at all and it's still there but I'm somehow not picking up on it like before. I have no clue right now.

I'm rather hoping someone will tell me this is a common thing, and I just don't know the right words to google it. Though probably not. Any and all advice would be very gratefully received.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Deva » Wed Jul 15, 2015 12:58 pm UTC

Genderfluid?
Gender fluid is a gender identity which refers to a gender which varies over time. A gender fluid person may at any time identify as male, female, neutrois, or any other non-binary identity, or some combination of identities. Their gender identity can vary at random or in response to different circumstances. Gender fluid people may also identify as multigender, non-binary and/or transgender.


Common enough for a flag, if so.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Quercus » Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:25 pm UTC

Either bigender or genderfluid might fit. I've recently started to identify as genderfluid, but my gender identity doesn't switch sharply, it more sort of drifts. Sharp switching is cool too though.

I think the important thing to recognise is that identity labels are tools, not boxes. If a label feels good or is useful then use it, if it stops feeling good then feel free to stop using it. "I'm not sure" is also a perfectly fine answer. It might be helpful for you (I know it was/is helpful for me) to have a think about what combination of qualities and experiences combine to make you feel female, or feel male (or neither or both if that happens to you). This should never be used to invalidate your experiences (i.e. there are no wrong answers), but it might help you to make sense of stuff.

The advice I would give you is the same advice I try to give myself when I get worked up/confused about gender - relax, be accepting of yourself, and see what happens. Maybe the switching you describe will happen again, maybe it won't, maybe you will find yourself hoping this will turn out a particular way and that will give you a clue, or maybe something else entirely will happen. All of these are okay.

Do some reading around gender and non-binary identities if that feels right, or some thinking, writing or talking. On the subject of reading this article seems remarkably well timed: Help! I Think I Might Be Non-Binary, But How Can I Know?


Good luck, and you know where we are if you have questions, problems or just want to chat.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby journey » Wed Jul 15, 2015 9:56 pm UTC

Yes, I guess a coin toss between bigender and genderfluid might be the closest description right now.

Of course, having finally decided that whatever was going on had stopped and saying as much yesterday's post, today it's come back. Not as jarring or strongly as before, but definitely there, and still quite a distinct change. I've resorted to keeping a diary of it all just to see if there's any sort of pattern.

Went hunting through the links on the everydayfeminism blog and discovered the term 'demigirl', which has a really nice ring to it. However its definition seems quite a stretch to apply to me. Bother.

Ta for the kind words both :)

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Quercus » Wed Jul 15, 2015 10:19 pm UTC

journey wrote:Went hunting through the links on the everydayfeminism blog and discovered the term 'demigirl', which has a really nice ring to it. However its definition seems quite a stretch to apply to me. Bother.

Really? It seems that it could potentially fit very well given the definition here: http://nonbinary.org/wiki/Demigender

nonbinary.org wrote:A demigirl is someone who only partially (not wholly) identifies as a girl or woman, whatever their assigned gender at birth. They may or may not identify as another gender in addition to feeling partially a girl or woman.


I suppose that if you identify totally as a woman at some times, and totally as a man at other times, without ever anything inbetween, then demigirl might not be such a great fit, but I wouldn't get too hung up on sticking within absolutely precise definitions - a lot of these terms are so new that their definitions haven't really settled (if they ever will, given the complex and individual nature of gender). If a term resonates with you, you should absolutely try it on for size.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby poxic » Wed Jul 15, 2015 11:10 pm UTC

There's a Radiolab podcast interviewing a bigendered person and describing her experience. She did sudden flips between genders, including one that happened during the interview. (She eventually settled on being female, which is explained in the story.)

You might find it interesting listening. I certainly did.
http://www.radiolab.org/story/invisibilia/
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Shivahn » Thu Jul 16, 2015 12:30 am UTC

Quercus wrote:I suppose that if you identify totally as a woman at some times, and totally as a man at other times, without ever anything inbetween, then demigirl might not be such a great fit, but I wouldn't get too hung up on sticking within absolutely precise definitions - a lot of these terms are so new that their definitions haven't really settled (if they ever will, given the complex and individual nature of gender). If a term resonates with you, you should absolutely try it on for size.

Another reason to do this is that the labels are kinda vague kludges we use to get across complicated ideas. But, while it's important in language to get an idea across, being yourself doesn't require abstraction. You are what you feel. Try to be true to that, rather than trying to find out what that is.

(I realize that finding out what you are can be incredibly helpful, and it is important for some people, but I struggled with the same questions and only really figured out the answer when I stopped looking for the label.)

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Pfhorrest » Thu Jul 16, 2015 2:10 am UTC

Another bi(actually pan)gendered/genderfluid person here saying welcome to journey.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Quercus » Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:24 am UTC

While we're on the subject I thought I would share some happy news. A couple of weeks ago I did the first gender non-conforming thing I've ever done in public, and it went great. I wore a large, bright pink daisy-like flower (a fresh one) in my hair and everybody who commented loved it. I got hugs, because I was wearing a pink flower in my hair. It led to some conversations so I'm now out as gender-questioning to a couple of my friends (other people who I didn't want to be out to yet just got "I like it, so I wore it"). To be fair I did choose a group of people who I knew would be accepting, but even so: :D

This gave me the confidence to buy a fairly feminine-looking bracelet and a shoulder bag that's all maybe I'm a satchel, maybe I'm a handbag (never mind that the fact that the type and size of bag you wear is gendered is so WTF that I don't even know where to start). I've got a progression in mind in terms of gender expression - next is a torc necklace (again, I love the masculine-feminine ambiguity of that), then some floaty patterned scarves, and then some long skirts.

I'm not trying to pass as female at the moment - even when I'm feeling quite female I love my beard and want to keep it, but having some way to present a mix of masculinity and femininity feels great. This is kind of the look that I'm eventually going for, though perhaps with brighter colours (picture I found online, not one of me):

Spoiler:
enhanced-22008-1425674159-8.png


I get that gender expression is not the main thing this is about, and that any form of expression should be open to anyone of any gender, but part of what experiencing gender fluidity has made me realise is that gendered clothing norms are weird, and restrictive, and people should wear whatever makes them feel good (so long as they feel safe doing so*).


*The fact that I have to write that caveat makes me want to cry.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby journey » Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:03 pm UTC

Quercus wrote:
journey wrote:Went hunting through the links on the everydayfeminism blog and discovered the term 'demigirl', which has a really nice ring to it. However its definition seems quite a stretch to apply to me. Bother.

Really? It seems that it could potentially fit very well given the definition here.

Hmm...i t kinda fits. Sort of. I'd worry that I'd be approrpiating it though, because I was drawn to it on account of liking the word. I dunno. Will play around with it and see if it sticks. Also splendid work with the hair flower :D . Glad folks responded so well!

Re: radiolab interview, that's really neat! It looks like it's about an hour long though, so will probably have to wait until the weekend before I can listen to it, but am quite interested to hear how it went.

Shivahn wrote:Another reason to do this is that the labels are kinda vague kludges we use to get across complicated ideas. But, while it's important in language to get an idea across, being yourself doesn't require abstraction. You are what you feel. Try to be true to that, rather than trying to find out what that is.

Yeah, I hear you. I guess I'm not too hung up on the label as such. More as a tool to use to find other folks who've had similar experiences, in the hope that it might give me more of an idea of what's going on (accounting for individual variation, naturally).

Pfhorrest wrote:Another bi(actually pan)gendered/genderfluid person here saying welcome to journey.

Hullo! :)

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Sungura » Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:39 pm UTC

I love the term demigirl and I use it to describe myself :) I would love to try gender neutral pronouns but I will always be gendered female so long as I have my boobs (which I love). I have many "masculine" qualities and never felt fully female it's more an "I look female because boobs". I don't have any dysphoria about it but I don't consider myself "a woman" either. (And I did have major issues with my internal baby making bits and finally have had a hysterectomy to solve that and feel MUCH better mentally for it) So to me demigirl is a nice features from both but is okay with being gendered female thing. Ymmv this is just what it means to me :) I've also used the term gender nonconforming.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Wolby » Tue Jul 28, 2015 6:42 pm UTC

CelticNot wrote:I went 35 years thinking I was a straight guy with a few not-uncommon fetishes, so I know what you mean. It's normal to doubt and question - especially at this point. The discouraging thing for me is that it sounds like the doubts don't always go away - that some transfolk still experience those doubts years after transitioning.

But yes - gender is damn complicated. A lot more so than it looks from the outside. {EDIT: Removed a line that, after thinking about it, was a tad insulting to certain demographics. Mea culpa.}

There's a really cool zine just read called Egg Mode (http://eggmodezine.tumblr.com/) which is all pieces by trans women about the weird kinks/fetishes they were into before they were out to themselves. It's available for pay-what-you-want online.


Quercus, you are so attractive I can't even. Great outfit! Skirts with boots 5ever.

Quercus wrote:I get that gender expression is not the main thing this is about, and that any form of expression should be open to anyone of any gender, but part of what experiencing gender fluidity has made me realise is that gendered clothing norms are weird, and restrictive, and people should wear whatever makes them feel good (so long as they feel safe doing so*).

*The fact that I have to write that caveat makes me want to cry.

I know we want to divorce gender expression from gender identity, but that shouldn't mean that we're now "politically incorrect" if we change our gender expression when we shift how we understand our gender identities. Because fuck that! Smacks way too much of that shitty TERF idea
Spoiler:
that in a perfect world trans people wouldn't exist and no one would need (or want) to change names or pronouns or wear different clothes or have surgery. Because obviously preventing trans people from transitioning is the main goal of gender abolition. /sarcasm

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Quercus » Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:29 pm UTC

Wolby wrote:Quercus, you are so attractive I can't even. Great outfit! Skirts with boots 5ever.

Ah, no - that's not me! (I wish I was that attractive!). That's just a picture I saw online and saved because it encapsulates exactly where I want to go with my gender expression.

Quercus wrote:I get that gender expression is not the main thing this is about, and that any form of expression should be open to anyone of any gender, but part of what experiencing gender fluidity has made me realise is that gendered clothing norms are weird, and restrictive, and people should wear whatever makes them feel good (so long as they feel safe doing so*).

*The fact that I have to write that caveat makes me want to cry.

I know we want to divorce gender expression from gender identity, but that shouldn't mean that we're now "politically incorrect" if we change our gender expression when we shift how we understand our gender identities. Because fuck that! Smacks way too much of that shitty TERF idea
Spoiler:
that in a perfect world trans people wouldn't exist and no one would need (or want) to change names or pronouns or wear different clothes or have surgery. Because obviously preventing trans people from transitioning is the main goal of gender abolition. /sarcasm

Oh absolutely. The point that I was getting at is that gender expression is often associated with gender identity, and that's fine, but it sometimes isn't, and that's fine too.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby CelticNot » Fri Jul 31, 2015 3:48 pm UTC

Coming up on six weeks on full HRT. Though I'm starting to think that the spiro (which I started back in early January) is jump-starting the development process - I've been getting changes that I shouldn't be getting for another four or five months.

Which brings me to the question of bras. Do any MtFs in here have experience buying these early on in transition? I'm a little discouraged because it seems like I have incompatible requirements. Also, for those who may be in both threads, is it impolitic of me to ask questions about this in the All Things Women thread? I don't know how (un)welcome I may be there...
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby PAstrychef » Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:09 pm UTC

Questions about bras are always welcome in the women thread.
I would recommend getting a sports-type bra for the time being. They hold everything in place, which helps you adjust, and they have more stretch than many other bras so you can keeping using them longer. Also, they don't have underwires, which you probably don't need. If your chest measurement is big enough you might want to check out Lane Bryant because they cater to larger people.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby CelticNot » Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:52 pm UTC

A sports bra would be ideal; I'm currently making do with bandeaus. The issue is my band size; thanks in large measure to my rib cage (I don't have a lot of spare flesh at that level), my band size is 52 (inches, I think). While you can find bras that large online, they rarely go below a B cup, and I'm... not even close yet. Plus, I have a bit of a complex about using inserts - I really don't want them.

I posted in the All Thing Women thread as well, thanks for the reassurance. :)
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Shivahn » Sun Aug 02, 2015 7:55 pm UTC

Spiro can definitely jump start the process, and I've heard of doctors who don't prescribe estrogen until the person's been on spiro for a month or so (I can't recall exactly why, but I think it had to do with physiology, rather than gatekeeping).

As for bras I don't have suggestions cuz I didn't until pretty late in transition, but I will say that whatever you get, make sure it's... gentle enough for you. I recall the start of transition where I basically died if anything pressed against me.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby frakitol » Mon Aug 10, 2015 4:20 pm UTC

Hi all. I tentatively introduced myself here last December. Questioning MTF, laid out in some detail in a thread in Dear SB ("Gender and body issues, and other things", findable in my post history). The relevant point today is that I've got a wicked dislike (slash almost phobic level of disgust) of my body hair, and want it gone no matter what I choose to do or not do as far as anything else transition-related goes.

I have a question for anyone who has done at-home laser hair removal. Do you have any recommendations for a device for body hair? I have pretty pale skin and dark androgenic hair, so most machines should work for me. I've done one treatment of shoulders, back, chest, and stomach with a borrowed Tria (not the 4x, the LHR 3.0) just to try it out. I was able to handle any pain without difficulty up through level 4 (didn't end up trying 5), so that part shouldn't be a problem. Ultimately, I'd like to be as completely hairless as possible on my back, shoulders and upper arm, chest, stomach, and upper and lower legs. I'm not horribly concerned about underarms at this point, because those are easy enough to shave, although I'd consider it. I'd also like to remove as much as possible from around genitals.

So far I've narrowed it down to I think two front runners. The Tria 4x seems to get the best reviews everywhere I've seen. On the other hand, the treatment head is really small. Each treatment is going to take forever, especially since it only lasts for about 40 minutes on a charge. It also has a finite life - 90,000 flashes, with no way to replace a cartridge to extend that. The Remington IPL6000 iLIGHT Pro Plus Quartz has a larger treatment, which would be good for legs and whatnot. The reviews aren't quite as good, and unlike the Tria, it does require replacement cartridges, although not until after some 30,000 flashes. It's also IPL, vs laser, so reviews are largely saying that it takes longer for results to show. The Silk'n Flash & Go and the Silk'n Bellalite are also both possibilities, but they'll also take longer to see results (http://www.beyondtalk.net/home-hair-removal/).

The other potential complication is that if I do start to transition, I'd obviously like to be able to start removing facial hair. The Tria and the Flash & Go can both do that, while the other two are less versatile.

Anyway, have any of you had experience with those models, or with any others you've had particular success with? Thanks :)

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby CelticNot » Tue Aug 11, 2015 5:07 pm UTC

Kinda-crosspost from the All Things Women thread: I re-measured myself last week, and somehow I'm down to a 46" band, which is exactly the size of the two bras I'd already bought, but needed extenders for previously. C-cups, but they're not wired, so it's not like the looseness stands out. I'm wearing one now and I'm slowly getting used to the itchiness.

I may have to post on another subforum to better understand weight loss. I expected (or rather hoped) to lose weight from places where it was most concentrated, rather than all-over. I'm definitely losing SOMETHING even though my weight isn't dropping very fast, because not only did I drop six inches in band size (and two shoe sizes), but I'm getting stretch marks EVERYWHERE.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby NovaNatalia » Mon Sep 07, 2015 4:21 am UTC

I posted some stuff in the Mental Health Thread about issues with sexuality and SRS/GRS, and was hoping some people from here would be able to give that a look; I don't want to repost here because it contains some fairly personal information and I don't want it to be publicly searchable.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Quercus » Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:10 pm UTC

@ NovaNatalia - *big hugs*. I'm afraid I don't have any more practical advice to add to what people have posted in the other thread, but I didn't want to just say nothing, so *hugs*

____________________________________________________

I'm writing this because I need to vent* - people should feel free to respond if they want to (both advice and support are fine with me), but shouldn't feel that they have to (it's a pretty rambly wall of text if I'm honest - I just feel better somehow putting it somewhere vaguely public, rather than leaving it in my own journal). Spoilered for length and ramblyness:

Spoiler:
I'm apparently back to the stage of not knowing what my gender is again, which is just something that none of my socialisation has equipped me to deal with in the slightest. The thing is, I'm still me, I haven't really changed that much (other than in the sense that I'm gradually giving up the idea that I need to conform to social and presentational masculinity). And, personally, I'm more or less fine with not knowing my gender, the trouble is that society, even progressive society, expects you to know your gender, it expects you to always have known your gender:- even the most inclusive gender checklists tend not to have "don't know and don't really care" as an option.

I don't actually know how to tell what my gender is, or even if I have a gender at all:
  • For most of my life I just went along with classical "maleness", because that seemed to be the done thing, even though I had no particular attachment to it (and didn't really grok that anyone else did either). I'm actually pretty good at performing a lot of male gender roles, but I'm also pretty good at performing a lot of female gender roles as well, I'm just less practised at them. I know that gender roles are very distinct from gender identity, but that leads me to the next point:
  • I don't know how to tell what my gender identity is, except by reference to gender roles and presentation - I don't grok what an internal sense of gender is supposed to feel like, and I don't know whether that's because I'm just a somewhat feminine cis man (and therefore I don't notice my internal gender because It's not in conflict with my body configuration), or because I'm agender or demigender (I get flickers of what might be an internal sense of gender, but I have no way of really knowing if that's what it is).
  • I'd previously decided I was genderfluid - but now I reckon that was mainly down to feeling different amounts of masculinity and femininity (in a kind of situation and mood dependent presentation sort of way), rather than different amounts of maleness and femaleness; in the same way that I thought I was male when I was performing maleness for most of my life (because maleness was easy and expected, and I wasn't really paying attention to myself, so I just kind of stuck with maleness).
  • When I ask myself the kind of questions people propose to sort this sort of thing out I get really ambiguous answers e.g.
  • "Would you prefer to have been born with a typical female body?" - "no, I like my body and am glad I could experience having it; on the other hand, I can't see why having a typical female body would bother me, and it would be neat to have curves, and less body hair (except the beard, I would miss the beard), and have a greater choice of interesting and colourful clothing styles".
  • "If it were easy, free, and there were no medical consequences would you permanently switch to having a typical female body?" - "without a doubt, at some point - the increased diversity of experience would be amazing - say 30 years in my current body, then however long in a female body, it would be awesome; being able to switch at will would be even better though"
  • "If you had to switch to another typical male body, or to a typical female body, which would you prefer?" - "I don't know - depends on how much each body matches 'me' " - this is a tough one to explain, but it came fairly strongly as an immediate answer, so it seems I have some innate sense of "self" that is, as far as I can tell, independent of sexual dimorphism
  • I think what this boils down to is that criteria other than gender identity are more important for me in all these scenarios - which I guess points towards me being agender. Agender feels like a pretty strange fit for me though, because in most of what I've read it connotes a neutrality in terms of presentation as well (even though it shouldn't) - maybe I could say that I'm agender with a fluid presentation (that's mostly masculine of center, because that's easier and safer). That sounds wanky though - like I'm a cis man playing at being trans* (whoa for internalised transphobia there!)

Most of the time at the moment I feel like most people's gender is like a ping-pong ball that slots neatly into the appropriately labelled tube, whereas mine feels like a squishy blob that sits on top of the tubes, dripping into multiple ones but never entirely fitting in any of them (this is certainly painting other people's gender in a far too simplistic light, but it's how most mainstream discussion of trans* issues makes me feel).

And what makes me mad is that I don't see why it should matter, I don't see why people care. I can't think of a single situation (outside of possibly a dating website) where specifying gender matters in any way (to me). I get why it's important for other people - people who have a strong internal sense of gender, but I don't see anything wrong with my own gender being ambiguous, private, and complicated. It makes me feel like a "special snowflake" for putting it like this - everyone else just has a gender, why do I have to be awkward? (yay for internalised transphobia again) But then I think, "I don't know my gender, I don't really care which box it fits in, and don't see why anyone else should either " actually seems like a pretty down-to-earth way of doing things.

I guess I'm also fine with identifying as genderqueer as an umbrella term, but I think I'm going to stop identifying as genderfluid, because I suspect it's more my presentation/mood that's fluid, not my identity

*Because my ruminating on this stuff is taking up far too much of the time I should be using for polishing my thesis.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Pfhorrest » Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:37 pm UTC

Quercus wrote:I'm writing this because I need to vent* - people should feel free to respond if they want to (both advice and support are fine with me), but shouldn't feel that they have to (it's a pretty rambly wall of text if I'm honest - I just feel better somehow putting it somewhere vaguely public, rather than leaving it in my own journal). Spoilered for length and ramblyness:

A lot of what you write sounds like the kinds of thoughts and feelings that I have. I've more or less decided that agender, pangender, genderqueer, and genderfluid are all fine by me as ways of describing the non-cisgender aspects of me (the "I'm not especially attached to maleness or masculinity, but I don't mind it; and femaleness/femininity are nice too, but I don't especially need them"), and I'm still fine with male/masculine identity as sort of the default path of least resistance, and I'm kinda thrilled on the odd occasions where I pass as just straight female/feminine (I think because it indicates that maleness/masculinity doesn't have to define or confine me, I can go without it them if I want). I've just accepted that all of those terms are going to seem incorrect in various contexts; some might say agender is wrong because I'm not bothered by being gendered masculine or feminine, or that I'm not genderqueer or genderfluid because I'm not always or regularly crossing or blending gender presentation lines and frequently just present as a guy because it's easiest and I'm tired and don't feel like thinking about things. (Although at home "easiest and I don't feel like thinking about things" means putting on my favorite skirt and nothing else, but if I wear that out, I have to think about what other people are going to think, and thinking about what people think is hard and I usually don't care enough to deal with it).

The language (like most language about most things outside hard science and math) is ill-defined and means different things to different people and draws boxes that, as inclusive as it tries to be, still may not fit everybody, but those words are the best vague gestures I've found to use if I have to use vague gestures like them. In practice, I find that I don't usually need to; I just let other people use whatever words they think fit best (a privilege people like you and I have, I suppose), and if someone wants to know something specific about me, I give them a specific answer instead of a one-word label.

I think YouTube mathemusician Vi Hart put it best when she said "I DO NOT UNDERSTAND YOUR MEAT NOISES".
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Quercus » Wed Sep 09, 2015 10:31 pm UTC

Thank you! It feels wonderful to know that there are other people out there who "get" it.

Pfhorrest wrote:and I'm kinda thrilled on the odd occasions where I pass as just straight female/feminine (I think because it indicates that maleness/masculinity doesn't have to define or confine me, I can go without it them if I want).

Oh, I can definitely relate to this! For me it's also that being referred to in traditionally feminine ways is just much more novel at the moment. I'm probably never going to pass as female (and that doesn't really bother me*), but when someone tells me that something I'm wearing looks "cute" or a friend calls me "honey" or "sweetie", there's definitely a yay! moment.

Pfhorrest wrote:I think YouTube mathemusician Vi Hart put it best when she said "I DO NOT UNDERSTAND YOUR MEAT NOISES".

I'd come across that before (but I'm sure it was way before June - maybe it's a reupload), but I needed the reminder - thanks, it's a wonderful video. This article I found also made me very happy in a similar way.

I think it's probably only the fact that I happen to have a typical male body that made me question my gender identity at all - it started with the fact that I realised I liked skirts, and nail polish, and flowers in my hair, and being emotionally expressive; and these things were for some reason discouraged. If I'd been born with a typical female body I may well have ended up just as a rather geeky, sometimes tomboyish girl who happened not to have a strong gender identity. That doesn't mean that my identity is more female than male, it just means that my preferred presentation is often more strongly policed on people with my sort of body.

Pfhorrest wrote:I just let other people use whatever words they think fit best (a privilege people like you and I have, I suppose)

Yeah, it's definitely a privilege to never really feel misgendered, whatever gender people refer to you as, although it does come with the unfortunate corollary of people telling you that your actual gender/lack thereof doesn't really exist.

*other than the fact that "feminine/ambiguous presenting but gendered male by others" appears to be one of the most physically unsafe combos out there - that bit definitely bothers me.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby eSOANEM » Wed Sep 09, 2015 11:14 pm UTC

A lot of what you've said seems quite familiar to me. Personally, I identify as genderqueer and genderfluid and, in particular, my experiences when I'm more agender-y seem more like yours. I think overall, I tend to feel a bit more of an internal sense of gender than you (although mostly anti-male rather than pro-anything-in-particular) but sometimes I definitely don't really mind if people misgender me.

I don't know; my mind doesn't seem to be able to make its mind on most things.

Edit: I'm not sure if this made much sense, I was quite tired when I made it. One of the reasons I like genderqueer as a term is that it's very general and includes pretty much the entire range of my genders. Most of the time, I don't have much internal sense of gender, but I do get quite strong reactions to being gendered in some cases.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Quercus » Thu Sep 10, 2015 11:39 am UTC

@eSOANEM - your post made perfect sense to me. And yeah, that's why I like genderqueer too.

Incidentally Vi Hart used a term (I found it on twitter, not in the video Pfhorrest linked) that I really like, and I think I will add it to the list of "terms which describe me": gender-agnostic. I don't really get along with it as an identity (although I can't really rationalise why not), but as a convenient descriptor it seems pretty spot on for me.

Edit: Although, I should also confess that an embarrassingly large part of why I gravitate towards genderqueer, over other options which also more-or-less describe me, is that we have by far the prettiest pride flag IMO :D


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