Draculafia! N3 - Nosferatu - GAME OVER - LIVING VICTORY

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Re: Draculafia! D2 - The Undead Dead

Postby freezeblade » Fri Nov 06, 2015 2:11 am UTC

I tracked Bessie last night, and was told she didn't visit anyone, btw.
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Re: Draculafia! D2 - The Undead Dead

Postby Vytron » Fri Nov 06, 2015 2:28 am UTC

dimochka wrote:I really don't see the argument behind the Bessie votes. Can someone please elaborate? Because frankly I disagree.


She made a nonsensical town to scum list, that's often done by scum that doesn't know what's she supposed to suspect...

Also, FB... tracker? Didn't you claim something else before?

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Re: Draculafia! D2 - The Undead Dead

Postby Madge » Fri Nov 06, 2015 2:59 am UTC

IIRC he claimed name but not role.

also yeah my main issue with bessie is her list being so weird.
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Re: Draculafia! D2 - The Undead Dead

Postby Vytron » Fri Nov 06, 2015 4:05 am UTC

It would be weird if lynching bessie won us the game. Say, in the Dracula is cult+SK scenario, in which bessie was the recruit.

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Re: Draculafia! D2 - The Undead Dead

Postby bessie » Fri Nov 06, 2015 6:02 am UTC

Vytron, so my list doesn’t make sense to you. Why? Because you don’t agree with me? And because we don’t agree, does that make me scummy?

Madge, how is my list “so weird” that I earned your vote?

Let’s see if I can explain with some reads.

mpolo – Most of his D1 posts were flavor and setup speculation. He did provide some reads and has been defensive of Madge. He claimed that he watched Madge, and that Madge was visited by moody. This was confirmed by moody, and no one has come forth with any conflicting claims so I have no reason to doubt his claim. I don’t agree with his reads on Madge, but I don’t think he’s scummy for not agreeing with me completely. So mpolo has done nothing I can point to as scummy.

dimochka – I just looked for my previous read on dimochka and it looks like I don’t have one. I barely mentioned him on D1. Reading through his posts, I see that he also speculated early that all the town roles are strong power roles (I missed this D1). He pointed out that Vytron's D1 posts were atypical and was suspicious of him (I agree with the observation but we drew different conclusions). He brought up the possibility of a D0 recruit, which I still think is quite likely, especially since the game hasn’t ended. Suspicious of jimbob for a scumtell, but doesn’t vote like Misnomer did. I like that he made a list and gave reasons for his bottom three.

jimbobmacdoodle – jimbob is another player I didn’t mention very much on D1, but I have been picking apart his posts on D2. I had a pretty newbie town read on him D1, and I’m a little concerned about the alleged scumslip, because it may just be a newbie slip. However, I do have my suspicions that I already discussed on the previous page: his power claim (which seems a little too powerful) and his unwillingness to take a strong stand on anyone. But I am glad that he made a list, even though he again backed off on his placement of freezeblade eighteen minutes later.

Misnomer – I’m hoping we get some more content from Misnomer, but he has already warned us that his internet would be patchy until Sunday. I actually liked his post with his reasons for suspecting mpolo, I just didn’t agree with his conclusion or with his vote. I also don’t agree with his reason for voting for jimbobmacdoodle because I would like to see a little more than “classic scumtell” as a reason for a vote. Misnomer will retain his scum-side-of-neutral position on my list until I see some more content from him.

freezeblade – When I made my list earlier, freezeblade had very little content. In fact, his entire D2 contribution at that point was two sentences: a “bloody” pun and fishing for jimbob’s role name. I was also considering the possibility that freezeblade was recruited by Madge N1. freezeblade claimed Arthur Holmwood D1 (no counterclaims), and claimed to track bessie on D1 with the result that she didn’t visit anyone (so far no conflicting claims but it's only been a few hours). I confirm that I didn’t visit anyone. I think that the fact that freezeblade volunteered this information moves him up on my townie list, because he didn’t need to say anything (the watcher already claimed so he didn’t need to worry that he had been seen). And if he was lying scum or recruited scum that retained his powers and really got that result, he didn’t need to say anything. I would still like to see some more content from freezeblade.

Madge – Scum.

For reasons just search my posts and read them all. Here’s a summary.

1. Pulls the “role PM gambit” in her second post.
2. Being overly defensive when I asked her to explain something she brought up.
3. For using the excuse that she doesn’t want to give too much info about her role PM to avoid answering questions. She’s the one that brought up her role PM in her second post, and she continued to refer to it (and use it as a roadblock).
4. For over claiming when she was in danger of being lynched (Van Helsing and doctor and a list of powers).
5. For agreeing with freezeblade’s excuse for not contributing on D1 (D1 discussion is not all idle discussion).
6. For voting to break the tie on D1, and thus voting against an extension (very anti-town).
7. This reason for voting for freezeblade.
Madge wrote:I'd rather risk lynching town!FB than risk being lynched myself, especially with my role being as it is.

This strikes me as self preservation not for a pro town reason.

8. For supporting a mass claim (after SDK brought it up).
9. For more over claiming (this time not a mason, no other powers, and full role reveal).
10. Her vote for me near the end of D1. That vote tied the votes and could have resulted in no lynch. But I think that there’s even more than that. I prodded Madge in my previous post to see if she would log on and vote for me. I even said this.
bessie wrote:ConMan, Madge isn’t voting yet. Maybe she will show up and you will still have an opportunity to lynch me.

She logged on and voted for me twelve minutes later. Then she unvoted when Vytron untied the votes and ConMan never came back.

11. For asking Vytron why he didn’t withhold his kill (although this is more odd to me than scummy).
12. When mpolo claimed moody visited Madge, she suggested we lynch moody to test his claim before he even had an opportunity to claim (really that was your initial reaction, moody visited me let’s lynch him?).

Madge wrote:Does she really, really think that we were likely recruited?

No. Not freezeblade. Just you. N0 or D1.

I’m sorry I just ran out of steam before I got to moody and Vytron, but I wanted to post something tonight so that we could have some more discussion before Madge and everyone else disappears for the weekend. I will be up for a few more hours if you want to ask me any questions, and I’ll try to finish my analysis.

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Re: Draculafia! D2 - The Undead Dead

Postby Vytron » Fri Nov 06, 2015 6:13 am UTC

UnFoS bessie

Okay, so I have Madge and FB at the top of my townie list, and completely disagree with bessie. But she does have actual cases, and I could imagine Madge flipping scum and me going "whoa *bows to bessie*".

All the suspicions on Madge get discarded purely based on meta. Madge recently jumped into "mafia for fun" and all the things bessie mentions fit that meta. Personally I'm glad she did it because... well, all the self-voting and beer and "terrible play" I pull out is Vytron on "mafia for fun", so join us, this doesn't need to be a frustrating puzzle to play, and actually, everyone playing mafia on real life in person do "mafia for fun", so it's actually weird that in the text version of the game, people take the game so seriously.

I'd hate to see erratic!town!Madge being lynched for her playing style, a self-preserving town power role is pro-town.

Finally, congratulations on getting married Madge! So tell me, with how many boyfriends are you getting married at once? :mrgreen:

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Re: Draculafia! D2 - The Undead Dead

Postby Madge » Fri Nov 06, 2015 6:23 am UTC

Well, I can't fault Bessie's logic, only the conclusion.

My suggesting a moody lynch was because I'm terrified I got recruited but it's a delayed recruit and I will suddenly have my alignment changed into an alignment that has little to no hope of survival.

I over claimed because I think being doctor would look too convenient, and I thought I'd soft-claimed doctor enough that claiming only my name would not be as helpful as claiming both.

The soap opera that is Madge's life @Vytron

Spoiler:
I'm marrying my fiance (we met in 2007, so 8 years!) and my boyfriend (we met in Jan 2012, so almost 3 years! I remember saying in mason chat on here that I am sorry I had to go because I had to go on a second date and got some encouraging words from people, and HE WAS THE GUY) will be standing next to me and we'll all be wearing fancy clothes. And we will be eating a kebab during the ceremony. YES YOU HEARD CORRECTLY. If people are interested I will post pictures when we get them.
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Re: Draculafia! D2 - The Undead Dead

Postby Madge » Fri Nov 06, 2015 6:25 am UTC

EBWOP

Actually looking back about my posts about Moody I pretty clearly say that we'll lynch moody if his claim isn't good. Which, you know, is obvious basic level play
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Re: Draculafia! D2 - The Undead Dead

Postby mpolo » Fri Nov 06, 2015 5:58 pm UTC

I at least got through reading everything now. Some thoughts:

jimbobmacadoodle could well be an independent of some sort, simply because of the "townie" characters from the book, I don't really see a Jack-of-all-Trades type.

Flavorly likely town:
Dr. Seward - if Van Helsing is a doctor, I'm not really sure what he'd be
Morris (claimed vig, Vytron) - claim fits flavor, and the crudely cut-off head of Dracula
Jonathan Harker - The two big things about him are singlemindedness and devotion to his wife. He had a big old knife, too. Still, doesn't really seem to fit with jimbob's ideas.
Holmwood (claimed tracker, freezeblade) - Reasonable as power, if not obvious
Mina Harker - took notes for the group, organized information, caught Dracula in the act of biting Lucy
Van Helsing (claimed doctor, Madge) - The go-to anti-undead guy

Flavorly likely (or at least possible) scum:
Lucy Westenra - Turned into a vampire (destroyed in the book)
Dracula (SDK, dead)
Renfield (SK, ConMan, dead)

I am missing two character names, and kind of wonder if jimbob has some kind of off the wall thing, like "Bram Stoker" or "Frankenstein's Monster", or "Francis Ford Coppola" that is working at cross purposes to town.

FoS: jimbobmacadoodle (no time to count votes right now, so I won't tempt a bandwagon)
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Re: Draculafia! D2 - The Undead Dead

Postby dimochka » Fri Nov 06, 2015 8:03 pm UTC

I'd rather not mention my character, but it's not on your list. Would prefer not to expand beyond that unless there is a good reason to. What I will say is that it won't be surprising to anyone when I do reveal it, and it's pretty squarely town.
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Re: Draculafia! D2 - The Undead Dead

Postby moody7277 » Sat Nov 07, 2015 12:04 am UTC

Okay, state of the game is that jimbob thinks I look scummy for being unsure in my read of SDK upon the reveal that he was frickin Dracula, and a couple of people have started to be suspicious of bessie, my personal guess for most likely to have been vamped, after a reads list that piqued their interests. I think my meta alone should have put me below dimochka. :lol:

freezeblade wrote:As a balance standpoint goes, in my opinion, it makes for more sense for us to have a town vig, and an anti-town, non-mafia night kill.


This is who it looks like ConMan turned out to be.

Putting my opinion into practice:

Vote: bessie
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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Re: Draculafia! D2 - The Undead Dead

Postby Djehutynakht » Sat Nov 07, 2015 1:47 am UTC

I suppose I owe you some sort of votals, don't I?

Votals:

jimbobmacdoodle - 2 (misnomer, freezeblade)
Bessie - 2 (Madge, moody7277)
moody7277 - 1 (jimbobmacdoodle)

Not Voting: 4 (Vytron, Dimochka, Mpolo, Bessie)

9 alive, 5 to lynch

Votals are tied. As always, an extension will be given if tied at deadline.

Tentative deadline: Tuesday, Nov. 10 at 11:59 PM EST

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Re: Draculafia! D2 - The Undead Dead

Postby dimochka » Sat Nov 07, 2015 1:50 am UTC

As I said, I do find Jimbob anti-town and I find bessie likely to be pro-town. Unless Jimbob claims or we get any other information, I stand behind my words

Vote Jimbob
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Re: Draculafia! D2 - The Undead Dead

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Sat Nov 07, 2015 11:38 am UTC

Ok, as there seems to be a general push for a claim from me, I have decided to take a bit of a gamble and make that claim. The reason I didn't want to before is that my role PM says that I will be killed if I am found by the Undead. It is not exactly clear what it means by found, and the way it is phrased even suggests that it might be only Dracula who gets that kill, in which case it is safe. Also, as I've been thinking about it over the past couple of days, I think that "found" might be if Dracula attempts to recruit me - i.e. instead of being recruited I get killed. Whether or not there is anyone else who can recruit or not, now that Dracula is dead is up for debate (of course that could be irrelevant if I am wrong about the not being recruited interpretation).

I am Jayne Wetherby. From what I can figure out, I am not in the books, but am in fact a character from a TV series. I started out as independent, but now win with town. As a Huntsman, my mission was to kill Dracula. If I succeed in that, I win with town. If someone else kills Dracula before me then I have to get them killed, as vengeance for being the one who got in my way. After that I win with town. I guess the being killed instead of being recruited makes sense based on what eventually happens to Jayne in the series.

I'll do a full read through and reads post later today. In the meantime, I thought it would be helpful to post everyone's claimed roles and actions:

jimbob: Jayne Wetherby, Huntsman, killed SDK
Vytron: Quincey Morris, multi-kill vigilante, killed SDK
Bessie: claimed did not visit anyone
Dimochka: claims character not on mpolo's list
Madge: Van Helsing, Doctor (roughly speaking), claims protected freezeblade
mpolo: no character claim, watcher, claims Moody visited Madge
Freezeblade: Arthur Holmwood, tracker, tracked bessie, who did not visit anyone
moody7277: no name claim, jailer, jailed Madge
Misnomer: no claim

Unclaimed characters from mpolo's list: Dr Seward, Jonathan Harker, Mina Harker, Lucy Westenra

Assuming that everyone in mpolo's list is actually in the game, that leaves us with one character still missing (presumably Dimochka's). From what mpolo describes of the flavour, and what others have claimed as characters, I think I can assign at least two of those characters to players (i.e. I think I know who moody and mpolo are). I'm not sure if it's a good idea to point this out or not, but am happy to do so, if anybody else wants me to.

Overall, I am inclined to believe the truthfulness of everyone's claimed actions so far. That does not necessarily mean that they are town though, especially if scum can recruit. For example, Moody could in fact be a plain scum roleblocker, or a recruited scum member could either have kept their power or have got results before recruitment.

The way I see it, there are two likely cases here: 1) we have a regular mafia-style scum faction (i.e. 1 kill a night, probably with power roles, based on the high number of claimed town power roles). 2) we have a cult-style scum faction.
Mafia-style scum:
If this is the case, there will likely be 2 more scum (possibly even 3, but I doubt it). Lucy is a possible scum candidate. That would leave Dimochka as the most likely other scum player. This is of course assuming the lack of safe claims, or simply characters missing from the list.
There was no kill last night, apart from SDK's death, so if this case is the case, either the kill was withheld, which seems unlikely, or the kill targeted Madge (entirely possible). This is assuming that Moody is telling the truth about jailing Madge. If he isn't, then the kill could have targeted Freezeblade (of course assuming that Madge is telling the truth). If neither Moody or Madge is telling the truth, I am going to be so confused, if we have a killing scum faction.

Cult-style scum:
If this is the case, scum may have started out with 1 member. If that is true, I would consider it extremely worrying. It likely implies a day recruit (or possibly N0 recruit) of some kind, otherwise the game could have ended by the end of N1 (if we lynched SDK, and Vytron had vigged ConMan).
If scum had more than 1 member to start with, I would guess that either Lucy were the other scum, or an additional non-book character is. It would still be possible for a N1 town victory, but much harder. There would have to be a non-inheritable recruit. We would have had to kill the recruiter (presumably Dracula, i.e. SDK), then ConMan would have had to kill the other scum member, and Vytron kill ConMan. If the recruit were inherited, then this does not work, as we would be left with 1 scum still.
If there were three or more scum members from game start, including any possible N0 recruit, I think we would be hard pressed to win.
Of course, the game didn't end after N1. SDK presumably therefore either has a team mate by the start of N1, or he was able to get a recruit off during the night. I will look for likely recruit targets in my reads list later on today.
In summary, a 1-man cult team would probably have 1-2 players now, depending on how any recruit mechanics work, likely neither of them cult at game start (treating N0 as part of the game). If there were a 2-man cult team, I think we would be looking at 2 cult members by now.

Other variations are possible, including a combination of the above two, or a much wackier possibility. I wouldn't put it past our mod to have no scum left at all, and only anti-town independent(s). Didn't SDK suggest after the last Halloween game a kind of "psychotic survivor" role, who has no kill, but has to be the only player left standing?

I disagree with both current bandwagons. Obviously, I am against my own one, but I also have generally felt bessie to be playing quite townie. It might be because her large walls of text appear to match my preferred play style, and her push for ordered town-scum lists do feel good. However, I may well be misreading her, given the number of others who seem to find her suspicious. She will be a priority in my read through later.

Side point from reading the player list: DJ, why did you cross your name out and rewrite your name in your first post??
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Re: Draculafia! D2 - The Undead Dead

Postby dimochka » Sat Nov 07, 2015 3:21 pm UTC

I just realized that something interesting was implied in my night results. Basically we are looking for the undead. That may seem obvious, but what I mean by that is that, from what I know, there probably aren't any scum humans in the game (anyone who is turned is no longer human). So Dracula and Dracula-like creatures would be the scum/cult, at least at the beginning. I also can't logically see any of the human roles start off as non-human (other than D0 recruit).

Jimbob still stands out to me at this point, though less so, because his role isn't in the original book. I also haven't heard much from misnomer so he's also on my list.

So let's see what we have:
- it's very likely that vytron started off as town due to his claim
- i would have expected madge to be dead, which tells me that it's likely moody saved her. and mpolo reported this, so it seems to me all three started as town, and at the very least madge is still town.
- bessie's actions are confirmed by freezeblade, so both also likely started off as town.

Which tells me that we probably have 1-2 anti-town in the set of {jimbob,misnomer,dimochka} and 0-1 anti-town in the set of {everyone else}.

Given that information, does anyone think I should claim and we lynch one of the two people in that first bracket?
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Re: Draculafia! D2 - The Undead Dead

Postby dimochka » Sat Nov 07, 2015 4:13 pm UTC

On second thought, It seems I made quite a few assumptions. Two stick out to me:
1. Madge could be scum and jailed by moody thereby making her unable to kill (though unlikely unless she was recruited d0). Somewhat unlikely since no doctor counterclaimed or tried hard to lynch her, and i'd expect to have a doctor in game
2. If we have a D0 and N1 recruit, then the latter bracket may have two scum. I just think it sounds too strong to have that, but it's possible... I'd also think that if this is the case, the latter group is unlikely to be able to recruit anymore (from a balance perspective).

Need to rethink it, but my previous post is still quite possible.
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Re: Draculafia! D2 - The Undead Dead

Postby Vytron » Sat Nov 07, 2015 5:29 pm UTC

Um, okay, so dimochka adds himself to the list of potential scum even though he must know he's not one, unless he's one. But I guess it helps town to have a neutral perspective on reads.

I've seen before games with a tracker and a watcher on opposite sides. The idea here is the tracker is able to detect power-roles by seeing people visiting others, so they become great night kills.

In any case, a really weird idea has been popping up my head...

No Lynch?

It's often bad because we don't gain information on people, yadda yadda, but I actually think it could have its uses. Mainly, we don't even know if we're against a normal mafia faction, it's possible we'd have a night without deaths. And if there's a cop, we have time for them to target more people and gain more info.

I'm currently thinking about lynching Mis, just because his odd absence, though I guess on meta when he's scum he doesn't really lurk like this.

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Re: Draculafia! D2 - The Undead Dead

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Sat Nov 07, 2015 5:38 pm UTC

Ok, as promised here is my grand reads list following a full readthrough. My full post-by-post breakdown of all living people apart from myself is in the spoiler below. FYI - all my statements regarding possible recruits are based on the assumption that we have recruiting scum. If we have killing scum, I think it most likely that the kill was prevented, probably by Moody's protection on Madge, but also possibly by scum!moody doing something to Madge which still allowed her her protection action, or even possibly because Madge was the scum with the kill.

Mpolo:
Lots of flavour spec, very little player analysis for much of D1. Doesn't really have any reads on D1 (not many people did from what I can tell), and votes Dimochka purely because out of ConMan/Dimochka he was more scary as scum. Thinks freezeblade likely safe, then changes his mind after Moody's claim. Claims watcher and that Madge was visited by Moody (confirmed by Moody). I'm not sure he's contributed too much useful analysis, but at the same time, I think he is town, because of his claim. I suspect it unlikely that mpolo would have been recruited, due to being seen as scummy by several players on D1, and a scum player from the start is unlikely to have a watcher power, I'd have thought.

SirGabriel/Bessie:
SirG was quite quiet before being replaced, so this is essentially entirely driven by Bessie. My gut tells me she is town. I like her suspicions on me (taking a step back, I can definitely see that those suspicions look reasonable). That was mostly why she was top of my town list the other day. Is suspicious of both Madge and FB, eases off of FB after his claim, but not so much of Madge. If anything, Day 2 her pressure on Madge increases. I'm pretty sure she was town D1. Not so certain for D2, now that I have done her reread. I think it is odd that she has posted so many reasons why she dislikes Madge without voting. I'm beginning to wonder if she was recruited last night, but again, she was under suspicion yesterday for the same pressure, so seems an unlikely choice. On the other hand she also had put pressure on SDK at one point on D1, so maybe he recruited her.

freezeblade:
If it weren't for his claim (and his lack of a counter claim), I'd still have FB as my number 1 scum suspect, due to his lack of activity both today, and yesterday. He also seems to have assumed that my kill must have been anti-town independent, for balance purposes, and ignored the fact that ConMan might well have been that person (as was pointed out by Moody). His tracking result looks likely to be true. I can't think of a reason for it not being, given bessie has confirmed it. That probably clears him of being some kind of D1 recruit again, or from starting as scum. His vote on me seems a bit weak. It looks like he has dismissed the possibility that both Vytron and I are town-aligned and both targeted SDK, or if we did assumed that I must be anti-town. My lack of name claiming also seems to worry him. I could believe Freezeblade being a N1 recruit, who has taken the opportunity to jump on me because others are suspicious. Freezeblade, what are your current reasons for voting me (if any), now that I have claimed?

moody7277:
I'm feeling slightly better about moody, now that I have had a chance to reread him. I'm still not convinced that the lack of even "neutral" on SDK was not a scum slip. He does seem to swing his opinion on Bessie quite suddenly. She was in his top three most scummy towards the end of D1, and then decides she was most townie, and therefore the most likely recruit come Day 2. As I think I mentioned earlier, I could see moody being part of a scum team, either as a recruiter, who recruited Madge, or as some kind of roleblocker on Madge. If the scum are just simple killing scum, I think this is less likely, given the lack of a night kill. I could see his vote on Bessie being an attempt to form a bandwagon on a more dangerous looking townie, although if he thinks she was a N1 recruit, that would also make sense. Moody, are you voting Bessie because of her D1 principles, or her potential as a N1 recruit? In other words, do you believe that bessie was town yesterday?

Vytron:
I'm pretty sure that Vytron is town, based primarily on his response to my question regarding last night's kill. The lack of character counter-claim and the fact that his character fits the flavour all make this more likely. He is suspicious of Bessie, primarily for her ordered list, I think. I'm not quite sure why he suggested lynching Bessie prior to that list though. Vytron, I didn't see your reasons for suspecting Misnomer or Dimochka as likely N1 recruits. Would you explain this please? Also, do you still hold to this statement?

Madge:
I could be wrong, but I think I've seen Madge's sort of reactions before from her as town, so I don't think her reactions late D1 are necessarily all that scummy. I don't find the role PM thing scummy either, as I'd guess she was just trying out something that has been tried out in other games recently. She seems to be as unsure of things as I felt on D1, although in her case, it doesn't seem to have attracted as much pressure from Bessie. Her reaction to Bessie's list seems a bit strong, but fits in with how she was playing on D1, I think. I reckon she's a bit too paranoid about a delayed recruit. None of this feels suspicious to me particularly, just maybe overreacting. I don't see any striking behaviour changes between the two days, so I don't think she was recruited. I could see her being scum from the start, but unlikely. I could also see her having been targeted for kill or recruit N1 but protected by moody. Overall, she is very firmly town in my opinion.

Misnomer:
Has been very quiet, but did warn of this. I would appreciate him coming back and giving more reasons for his vote on me than simply a possible scum slip. Similarly, his votes for mpolo yesterday seemed to have been for quite weak reasons. Could well be scum. His lack of any claim about last night doesn't help matters, though that could be because he doesn't have an active power or something. Misnomer, if you couldn't lynch me, who do you think should be lynched today, and why? Also, do you still maintain your position on my apparent scum-slip? I expect good responses.

Dimochka:
The first thing I noticed about Dimochka was that he asked a question to Madge regarding multiple kills, that Vytron had already asked and she had answered earlier that page. He does some analysis, but seems to almost entirely focus on those other people have already found suspicious. Day 2, he seems to jump on me for suspicions that others have, without coming up with any real new ones. He definitely considers bessie town. He says he would have been a good recruit target, and that mpolo would have recruited him. Dimochka, could you explain why? Dimochka asks for my role, as it might help, but then votes me, before I've responded. I know this probably sounds a bit OMGUS, but I am very suspicious of this. I definitely feel that Dimochka could be scum, either from the beginning, or from a N1 recruit. Seeing his latest posts confuse me. He puts himself as one of a set of three who are likely to be scum?? He also is suspicious of Misnomer because he is being quiet, which Misnomer had warned about ahead of time.

Ordered list:

Town
Jimbobmacdoodle
Madge
Vytron
Bessie
Freezeblade
Mpolo
Misnomer
Moody7277
Dimochka
Scum

As I believe in voting for the most suspicious player in my list:

Unvote: moody7277
Vote: dimochka

Ninja'd by Vytron (and Dimochka, but I took his latest posts into account when composing this). Looks like he noticed the same thing I did.

NB - whilst going over these notes, I noticed I made one or two small errors assigning posts to the wrong person. If you happen to spot any, please do point them out!
Notes:
Spoiler:
mpolo:
Possible character list with role spec. Suggests cult likely. Gypsies = mafia.
Suspects all got living/undead information. Uncomfortable about role PM arguments.
Dracula immune to lots of stuff at night [looks like not to being killed!]. Other possible powers, repeats gypsies as possible allies.
Madge referring to something specific in PM. Does not want to elaborate in case giving scum information. Likely mafia with kill or recruit. Can't rule out multiple factions. Qunicey/Jonathan likely vig.
Would protect SDK based on hunch.
Flavour spec, re. recruitment - doctor could prevent recruitment, or dracula has to visit same person multiple times. Bessie's first post good. ConMan re. cult = correct. May be case only Dracula can recruit. Does not like role PM hinting by Madge, but looks somewhat townie.
Apologises for most flavour spec. Would rather not pick out Madge comments in case giving info to scum. Possibly reveals things not wanted. Defensive posts - scummy. Madge -> neutral.
Doesn't know whether to vote or not.
Would like to avoid mass claim, will break game. Vytron easily convinced to change opinion. Those suspicious of him should now view his defence of Madge as townie.
Basic reads list. No read on ConMan/dimochka (no actual scum reads). Votes dimochka - dangerous as scum.
<Day 2>Has to discount SDK town list. Has information.
Guesses Madge foiled kill, if scum had one. Can most likely trust FB. Madge could have been zapped.
Having vig necessary if recruiting scum. Doubts my claim a bit, but would have been bold to have made claim so early. Vytron could also be lying. Madge recruit most likely.
Need to go back to previous exchange.
Claims watcher, moody visited Madge.
FB not protected, lack of scum kill worrying. Doesn't want to test out idea of Madge being vampire and Van Helsing.
I could be independent. Posts list of characters, with claims, trying to see where I fit in. Wonders if I am an off-the-wall character. FoSses me.

SirGabriel/Bessie:
Joke(?) vote me.
Unvotes in response to moody. Not much to talk about, apart from Vytron's wine.
Asks for replacement.
Bessie replaces SirG.
Setup spec, considers recruiting possible. Recruitment very limited. No resurrection role. Vytron's claim no more than town claim. Madge post re. multiple scum factions bothering, repeats question.
Madge being overly defensive. Madge trying to appear to be helpful via role PM, but cannot without breaking rules. Freezeblade's "more discussion" post stands out, due to little content.
Madge would not be lynched in tie.
False claiming would be risky. Claims are likely good. Needs to reevaluate.
Unvotes FB (forgot earlier).
Asks SDK to explain vote on her, when he somewhat agreed. FB should find own reason to vote for her. Recruit = anti-mass claim mechanic.
Glad SDK has reason to vote for her. Has lots of trouble getting reads on players. Slightly suspicious of Moody, ConMan for thinking Vytron will be killed after PR claim. Thinks all town roles are PR. Does not like Madge late switch vote, especially as stated that scum can late switch. Other analysis. Moody vote on Madge re. PM gambit came late. Thinks some people saying "Vytron is Vytron" may be testing waters. Does not see Misnomer vote for mpolo. Would vote for Madge on gut feeling. Votes ConMan for listed reasons.
Suspicious of Madge, Van Helsing may not be town. Rather not claim. Suspicious of Madge, SDK for suggesting mass claim. Not sure she herself is worst choice for mislynch - power town. Others may be more important. Wrong to assume more important than others.
Madge still acting very anti-town.
<Day 2>No results to claim.
@Madge - why not recruited last night? Sees my lack of commitment, asks for ordered list of players. Should make note of all votes, not just those on ConMan. Disagrees with my comment on Madge unvoting ConMan. Most likely Dracula has team mate. @Moody - why not voting for Madge if scum? @Vytron - do you have multiple kills? @Madge - why do you think Vytron should have withheld his kill.
I'm slipping on her scumdar. Thinks I could be independent. Likes ordered lists.
Does disagreeing with Vytron make her scummy? Wants explanation from Madge on list weirdness. Produces reads list. Gives particular long list of reasons for Madge being scum. Thinks she was recruited N0 or D1.

freezeblade:
Joke vote SDK
Unvotes SDK. Need some discussion. Flavour blind.
Wolves just flavour, or significant?
Defends meta (not been town in a long time).
Not much to analyse D1 - no hard facts, hearsay, flavour setup, gut feeling on discussion.
Votes Madge - being lynched detrimental to town.
Vote was defensive, doesn't feel Madge scummy. Closely look at me for starting wagon on townie. D1 sucks.
Said answered questions. Can't make 3 person vote list. Can claim if necessary.
Hopes person breaking tie has good reason.
Not tied!
Claims Arthur Holmwood.
Points out Moody did late vote switch in Shakespeare.
Will re-evaluate after extension.
Unvotes following extension.
Agrees with SDK analysis, and feels SDK is town, votes Bessie.
<Day 2>Didn't expect SDK flip. Trusts my claim unless counter-claim.
Sure of Vytron towniness. Thinks anti-town kill needed for balance [seems to have missed ConMan's flip?]. Avoiding my name claim because it sounds anti-town. Votes me.
Tracked Bessie, was told not visited anyone.

moody7277:
Joke votes = no data
@SirG - justify or remove vote, votes SirGabriel
Unvotes SirG. Suggests discussion topics.
Suggests reasons for SDK townie list. People on list look like frequent posting except me. Setup splits seem reasonable.
Votes Madge for bad PM gambit.
Inscrutability = compliment. Dracula alone/with Renfield possible. Maybe with recruit/kill/roleblock.
Posts long reads list. Summary: "I like where my vote is currently, but would also consider fb depending on if and what he posts."
Votes FB, for D1 comments. FOS Madge for agreeing with FB.
Makes FB case. something funny going on with Madge. Happy with vote. Points out Vytron/FB disagreement re. FB town meta.
Points out Xeno 2014.
Explains Xeno 2014 vote switch.
More on late switch.
Madge claim might be safe claim.
Has Madge as number 1 suspect. Did not notice Madge PM thing until pointed out.
Analyis of bessie, ConMan, mpolo. Bessie more accepting of claims than him. ConMan concerned over Vytron reactions. Mpolo dones some useful activity. Disagrees with some opinions. Vote looks arbitrary. ConMan, mpolo, bessie scum order. Votes ConMan.
<Day 2>Develops reads list to see most likely recruit - conculsion, bessie as most townie.
Voting Madge would be futile. Claims jailed Madge, so not recruited. No reason to be subtle about it.
In response to me, SDK hard to read.
Summarises game state (I look scummy, Bessie possible recruit). Points out that ConMan was anti-town, non-mafia with kill. Votes Bessie, based on previous opinions.

Vytron:
Claims power role town. Ignoring current votes. Dracula unlikely to be only threat.
SDK list of townies = random
Points out rule win condition change. Suggests recruiting scum/soft-cult. Either no night kills, multiple scum factions, kill/cult faction. Believes multiple scum factions. @Madge - Why confident about multiple kills?
Nothing scummy, disagrees with votes. Hasn't found anything re. people knowing his faction. Asks Misnomer to elaborate on mpolo pinging.
Accepts Misnomer reasons. Would vote mpolo if nothing better comes out.
Out of {Madge, Freezblade, mpolo}, freezeblade looks worst.
Explains reasons for different posting style (not having to defend claim). Moody, me, Madge look town. Votes freezeblade, has done nothing productive. Disagrees with Madge over detailed analysis. Misnomer suggestion looks like genuine thoughts.
Doesn't want FB lynched - reaction classic FB, could be PR. Would appreciate extension.
Remember's FB scum meta, which is different.
Unvotes FB. Wants Madge lynched for breaking tie.
@Moody - what are you talking about.
Votes ConMan. Bessie looks like town!bessie. No reason to post walls of text. Not usual Vytron game, should be suspicious of those saying "Vytron is Vytron". Agrees with misnomer, re. ConMan flying under radar. Has misnomer as neutral. Will have him as scum, if ConMan innocent or mpolo flips town.
If ConMan flips town, Madge looks bad.
<Day 2>Votes me. Claims Quincey Morris, vigilante. Vote is weak - possibly killed Dracula twice! Having power to target title namer makes sense. ConMan was SK = roughly same logic as ConMan was town for evaluation. Explains reasons for killing SDK - between me and SDK, chose SDK for attack on bessie.
We actually killed Dracula twice!
Withholding kill like being vanilla town.
Says has multiple kills. Would have withheld kill, if could find reason not to for each player.
Unvotes me because of my question. Possible to hold two lynches daily - second is for Vytron to make. Dim and Mis optimal recruit targets. Madge, optimal kill target. Should lynch Dim, Mis, or Bessie.
Against using random.org in principle.
FOS Bessie for non-sensical list. @Bessie - do you suspect Madge/FB of false claiming?
Explains vote due to non-sensical list. Thought FB had claimed something else before [he hadn't].
Winning game because of Bessie list weird.
UnFoS Bessie because she has reasons for her suspicion. Disagrees with her.

Madge:
No time for proper reply.
Believes possibly multiple undead factions. Characters either living or undead.
Living/undead thing unhelpful. Nothing concrete on multiple faction reasoning. Confident in multiple kills. No indication one way or another that people can turn into vampires. All part of PM. Vytron usual self = null tell. SDK being SDK, town list rich this early.
@Vytron - Confident about multiple kills due to role PM.
No meaning from exclamation marks in post. One scum faction, two ways to kill (including turning into vampire). Culting mechanic likely, no reason from role PM.
@Dimochka - Confident about multiple kills from role PM. Not necessarily all scum.
Not going to multiple undead factions question beyond "I think there is". Could be wrong. No concrete reason for thinking it. Sentence misnomer takes issue with "dime a dozen" [not sure I understand the meaning, but seems to suggest they are common]. Concerned with Bessie pressing, but pretty OMGUS.
Hates D1, for same reason as mpolo. Wanted to be helpful from PM, to get people talking. IGMEOY fb due to repeated scum. Likes misnomer, but was over analytical. I don't stick out, will have another look.
Votes FB. Not good at identifying scum. Would probably be wrong.
Can claim, but would rather not.
Does not want to be lynched. Claims Van Helsing. Doctor, no special powers, protection from all undead actions. Trying to lay under radar.
Would rather town!FB lynch than late switch.
Unvotes. Keen on mass claim. Claims not mason. Realised that saying stuff about kill was bad.
Liked ConMan's last minute speech. Votes bessie. Will unvote to avoid tie, if nobody else votes.
Continues to defend late vote switch.
Unvotes, accepts general consensus to lynch ConMan.
<Day 2>Surprised to be alive. Protected freezeblade. Dracula's faction couldn't have killed him, unless part of recruit mechanic. Maybe vig, with scum kill blocked, maybe role blocker.
@Vytron - Why not withhold kill?
Possibly believes was jailed. Possible kill was roleblocked. Discusses various other possibilities. Would have withheld kill because too scared to kill town.
Claims nothing happened to her. Believes Moody to be jailer, scum roleblocker or possibly cop. Scared of delayed recruitment.
Wants good explanation from Moody.
Accepts jailer claim as good. Using random.org for protection choice.
Agrees with Vytron re. Bessie's list weird. Very suspicious of her, along with other stuff said. Posts quick order list. Votes Bessie.
Responds to Vytron - FB had claimed name, not role. Voting bessie because weird list.
Can't fault Bessie logic, only conclusion. Terrified of delayed recruit. Gave reasons for over claiming.
Acknowledges that she has pointed out the obvious re. lynch Moody if claim bad.

Misnomer:
Agrees with Vytron re. recruitment likely. Passive/delayed recruitment possible, unlikely traditional resurrection. SDK - who would kill from townie list?
Votes mpolo. Vote early/often. Mpolo - who to protect? SDK - why moody/Vytron on town list if difficult to read?
Gives assorted reasons why mpolo post may be bad. No real evidence, gut feeling, but thought through. Most reasons suggest some form of mpolo trying to stop discussion over Madge.
People should be more willing to pick up on small points on D1. Votes Madge, soft defence of mpolo does not sit well. @FB - why no vote, who would auto-kill?
Asks someone to unvote FB, so that tie maintained.
Meta-opposed to D1 mass claims. Cannot assume people tomorrow still town. Unvotes. Gut feeling list. Lynch candidates mpolo, ConMan, Moody. Votes mpolo because has votes already.
<Day 2>Votes me for jubilant cry. Postulates ideas as to why game still continuing.

Dimochka:
Somewhat flavour blind, watched TV series. Expects 8/2/1. Dracula possibly on own, but unkillable D1. Cult very likely, wiht possible inheritable recruit. Need town night-killing powers/multiple anti-town factions. Expects more than one faction. Wolves not other anti-town. Role speculation, including possible masons. Unhappy with ConMan post. Mpolo/Madge know lots about factions. Madge - why confident multiple kills [was asked by Vytron earlier on same page and answered already]. Vytron is town, if had to guess.
Vytron posting atypical. Revokes townie view.
@FB - who are top 3 lynch candidates? @Vytron what do you think of ConMan? Would like extension. Thinks Madge is town. Not sure re. FB. De-culter unlikely.
Doesn't like mpolo vote, but not scum. Disappointed in Madge claim. Believes Madge/FB townie unless D0 recruit. Suspicious of ConMan. Would vote for him if forced.
Watching moody and bessie closely. Asks Madge if in mason group, then retracts question.
Would like to hear from ConMan before vote.
<Day 2>Agrees with Misnomer re. my statement. IGMEOY me. No results from night. Missed deadline. Re-evaluating current list. No longer has moody or bessie at top.
Makes ordered list, with me at bottom, for same reasons as others. FB because likely recruit target. Misnomer because flying under radar. Would suspect mpolo to have recruited him. Bessie's thoughts seem most coherent. Suggests I claim my role name.
Disagrees with votes on Bessie. Wants explanation.
Character name not on mpolo's list. Clearly town.
Finds me anti-town. Bessie pro-town. Votes me, unless I claim.
Probably aren't any scum humans in the game. I still stand out to him following claim, as my role is not in the book. Haven't heard much from misnomer, so also on the list. Suggests 1-2 anti-town in me, Misnomer, dimochka [why have you put yourself in there???]. 0-1 in everyone else. Seems to assume that only. Assumes Madge is town, given chain of claims. Bessie actions confirmed by freezeblade.
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Re: Draculafia! D2 - The Undead Dead

Postby moody7277 » Sat Nov 07, 2015 5:51 pm UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote: Moody, are you voting Bessie because of her D1 principles, or her potential as a N1 recruit? In other words, do you believe that bessie was town yesterday?


Definitely her potentially being recruited. Where you saw what you thought was my most suspicious three (ConMan, mpolo, and bessie) was me deciding among the three tied candidates D1. I'd have put her near the top of a town->scum list then, which I figure is what recruiting scum would be looking for.
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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Re: Draculafia! D2 - The Undead Dead

Postby dimochka » Sat Nov 07, 2015 8:19 pm UTC

Vytron wrote:No Lynch?

It's often bad because we don't gain information on people, yadda yadda, but I actually think it could have its uses. Mainly, we don't even know if we're against a normal mafia faction, it's possible we'd have a night without deaths. And if there's a cop, we have time for them to target more people and gain more info.

I don't see the overall benefit of this if we have a recruiting faction. The lack of scum kills could be specifically because we have a recruiting element in play. It would be pretty tough to win a game where scum can both recruit and kill.
Moreover, in a regular game you'd usually lose one person overnight. In this game, night is the equivalent of losing two people (-1 to town, +1 to scum). So I think a no lynch is a terrible idea.
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Re: Draculafia! D2 - The Undead Dead

Postby bessie » Sat Nov 07, 2015 9:56 pm UTC

A lot has happened since my last post. I don’t think I’m going to claim my role name yet, because if most of the suspicion on me is because I was a possible recruit, then a role name claim is worthless anyway. It looks like moody voted for me because I was a possible N1 recruit.
moody7277 wrote:Therefore, based of that list, bessie as most townie looking would make the best recruit choice.

As I already said after moody made that post, I don’t really have a good defense for it. I will say that as far as I know, I haven’t been recruited, and my alignment/win condition hasn’t been changed. So If I was recruited it was either a delayed recruit or this game is more bastard than advertised. I guess that I can make a winey argument that I really don’t think I was recruited, for both gameplay and meta reasons. I still think that a single N0 recruit is more likely than a nightly recruit, based on the size of the game and from what has been revealed so far.

An idea about the possible cult/recruit. We have no evidence that there is cult/recruiting in this game. We have been assuming this because it fits with the flavor and because of this statement by Djehutynakht.
Djehutynakht wrote:1. Some elements in this game may or may not be considered by some to be Bastard. I'm not intentionally trying to mess with everyone's heads, but fair warning. There is a possibility that roles or win conditions may change for certain individuals depending on game events. Maybe the only change will be that from alive to dead. Who knows?

I think it’s possible that this refers to jimbobmacdoodle’s role and not a cult. So if there is no cult, we have this as a possible eleven player game setup:

Town
Abraham Van Helsing, Town Doctor, (Madge)
Arthur Holmwood, Town Tracker, (freezeblade)
Quincey Morris, Town Vigilante, (Vytron)
Jonathan Harker
Mina Harker
John Seward
Yet-to-be-named Town, (dimochka)

(insert somewhere on this list mpolo, Town Watcher, and moody, Town Jailer)

Independent
Renfield, Serial Killer, (ConMan)
Jayne Wetherby, Huntsman, see notes below, (jimbobmacdoodle)

Mafia
Count Dracula, unknown powers, (SDK)
Lucy Westenra, unknown powers

Disclaimer, I am not an experienced mod. Can Misnomer, dimochka, mpolo, etc weigh in on this?

Typing up this list, I am now very suspicious of jimbobmacdoodle’s claimed win condition.
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:I am Jayne Wetherby. From what I can figure out, I am not in the books, but am in fact a character from a TV series. I started out as independent, but now win with town. As a Huntsman, my mission was to kill Dracula. If I succeed in that, I win with town. If someone else kills Dracula before me then I have to get them killed, as vengeance for being the one who got in my way. After that I win with town. I guess the being killed instead of being recruited makes sense based on what eventually happens to Jayne in the series.

I have my doubts that you’re telling us the entire truth. If you are trying to kill town, you are anti-town. And you role doesn’t make sense to me. It seems like if Dracula was NKed, your target would be Vytron or ConMan and you wouldn’t know which so you couldn’t lead a lynch on them anyway. And what if Dracula was lynched? I don’t doubt your role as much as I doubt your claimed win condition. I think you are still independent, and probably anti-town.

If the above is a likely setup, my pick for Lucy Westenra is Misnomer, partially based on D1 interactions with SDK.

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Re: Draculafia! D2 - The Undead Dead

Postby dimochka » Sat Nov 07, 2015 10:20 pm UTC

bessie wrote:Disclaimer, I am not an experienced mod. Can Misnomer, dimochka, mpolo, etc weigh in on this?

I am not an experienced mod (I modded one game I wrote and co-modded / took over 5 or so other games?) but here are my two cents. I'd say 7/2/2 is possible but a bit too much. Part of the reason I was asking Madge about masons is because something like that would help balance 2 independents + 2 scum. I'd guess something closer to 7/2/1 or 7/1/2, although it's likely at least one of those 7 has been converted (I'm sorry, I simply don't believe that in a Dracula-based game we wouldn't have a cult, which tells me that we probably don't have a separate mafia team).

That's yet another reason I'm dubious of Jimbob's claim.

What will make a huge difference for us is whether the culting ability (if it exists / existed) passes on to cultees. Because we may need vytron to kill tonight if this is the case.
Just to note - we can do a combination of three things: (1) lynch (2) jail someone, assuming moody is town, (3) vig someone

Jimbob - I don't think you ever mentioned this. Do you still have a killing power? ... actually I don't know whether the answer to that question really matters. I think it's very unlikely you're town. Because town having TWO vigs AFTER Dracula is dead is way out of balance.
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Re: Draculafia! D2 - The Undead Dead

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Sat Nov 07, 2015 11:30 pm UTC

bessie wrote:I have my doubts that you’re telling us the entire truth. If you are trying to kill town, you are anti-town. And you role doesn’t make sense to me. It seems like if Dracula was NKed, your target would be Vytron or ConMan and you wouldn’t know which so you couldn’t lead a lynch on them anyway. And what if Dracula was lynched?

I didn't make up the win condition! I would have become anti-town, had I not killed Dracula. As I did, the point is moot. My win con is now town, as I said. If he had been otherwise night killed... well, I don't know. I didn't get full details in my role PM, and got a no comment in response to my query on what exactly would happen following his death under other circumstances.

dimochka wrote:Jimbob - I don't think you ever mentioned this. Do you still have a killing power? ... actually I don't know whether the answer to that question really matters. I think it's very unlikely you're town. Because town having TWO vigs AFTER Dracula is dead is way out of balance.

I don't have a kill power any more. Yes, two town vigs at this point would be out of balance. I'm presuming that's why my kill only worked against Dracula, and not his minions, or whatever his presumed team-mates are. A 7-2-2 setup wouldn't be too bad, if one of the independents is/becomes pro-town...
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Re: Draculafia! D2 - The Undead Dead

Postby bessie » Sun Nov 08, 2015 12:47 am UTC

First of all, ffs, I’ve been working on the book this week and I don’t have time to watch the TV show. Oh well.

moody7277 wrote:Okay, state of the game is that jimbob thinks I look scummy for being unsure in my read of SDK upon the reveal that he was frickin Dracula, and a couple of people have started to be suspicious of bessie, my personal guess for most likely to have been vamped, after a reads list that piqued their interests. I think my meta alone should have put me below dimochka. :lol:

moody, I’m sorry you’re dissatisfied with my town read on you! I still need to finish my player list, so let me take a look and see if I can dig up a few scum tells.

moody – Claimed jailer, with no contradicting claims. He’s the only other player that agrees with me on Madge’s scuminess, but for different reasons (I think moody doesn’t believe her claim). I agreed with most of his reads this game. I even agree that I’m a possible cult suspect (although I don’t agree that I am the most likely cult choice). So moody I’m sorry to disappoint you but I still read you as town.

Vytron – I had an earlier town read on Vytron for acting quite solidly townie. Some questioned this behavior because Vytron’s usual playstyle is, shall we say, unpredictable? I agree with a lot of his reasons for his reads this game, even if I don’t agree with his conclusions (for example, his reads on Madge and on me). Claimed Quincy Morris, every night vigilante, killer of Dracula. I have the same problem with his power claim that I had with jimbob’s original claim, it seems too powerful for a game of eleven players.

A few more responses to page 6 content.

Madge wrote:Actually looking back about my posts about Moody I pretty clearly say that we'll lynch moody if his claim isn't good. Which, you know, is obvious basic level play

Madge is correct, I was wrong. As I said before, I was running out of steam at the end of that post, and I got sloppy at the end and misread the post to which Madge is referring.

dimochka wrote:I am not an experienced mod (I modded one game I wrote and co-modded / took over 5 or so other games?) but here are my two cents. I'd say 7/2/2 is possible but a bit too much. Part of the reason I was asking Madge about masons is because something like that would help balance 2 independents + 2 scum. I'd guess something closer to 7/2/1 or 7/1/2, although it's likely at least one of those 7 has been converted (I'm sorry, I simply don't believe that in a Dracula-based game we wouldn't have a cult, which tells me that we probably don't have a separate mafia team).

dimochka, we don’t know all the powers in the game yet, and just because no one claimed a particular power doesn’t mean it's not in the game. We may still have some unclaimed powers that would balance the game.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:I didn't make up the win condition! I would have become anti-town, had I not killed Dracula.

That's not the part with which I have an issue. This is.
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:If someone else kills Dracula before me then I have to get them killed, as vengeance for being the one who got in my way. After that I win with town.

This doesn’t make sense. If you have to kill indie-Renfield, OK. But if you have to kill town-Quincy, you are anti-town so it doesn’t make sense that you would win with town.

Partially off topic: meta and Madge
Spoiler:
Vytron wrote:All the suspicions on Madge get discarded purely based on meta. Madge recently jumped into "mafia for fun" and all the things bessie mentions fit that meta. Personally I'm glad she did it because... well, all the self-voting and beer and "terrible play" I pull out is Vytron on "mafia for fun", so join us, this doesn't need to be a frustrating puzzle to play, and actually, everyone playing mafia on real life in person do "mafia for fun", so it's actually weird that in the text version of the game, people take the game so seriously.

I take this game seriously in that I feel I owe it to the mods my fellow players to play the game to the best of my ability. This includes playing and not dropping out because I’m frustrated or bored (note that dropping out for real life issues is always an acceptable excuse for anyone), making an effort to post and not lurk, following the rules and playing to my win condition, and not being a jerk to the mods or to the players. If ever I fail at the last part it is completely unintended. I don’t take this game seriously in that I don’t take anything anyone says as a part of the game personally or as a personal insult, and winning is not as important to me as a fair game in which everyone has a good time.

So Vytron, I hope you don’t think I am intentionally trying to rub Madge the wrong way, or that I mean anything I say as part of the game personally. Actually, Madge is my total hero and I admire her for living the life she wants on her terms, and for finding happiness while doing so. Too many people spend their entire lives never achieving even one of those things; Madge has them both and at a young age. And I feel honored that she has offered to share her wedding photos with us.

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Re: Draculafia! D2 - The Undead Dead

Postby Vytron » Sun Nov 08, 2015 5:27 am UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Vytron:
I'm pretty sure that Vytron is town, based primarily on his response to my question regarding last night's kill. The lack of character counter-claim and the fact that his character fits the flavour all make this more likely. He is suspicious of Bessie, primarily for her ordered list, I think. I'm not quite sure why he suggested lynching Bessie prior to that list though. Vytron, I didn't see your reasons for suspecting Misnomer or Dimochka as likely N1 recruits. Would you explain this please? Also, do you still hold to this statement?


Did I said that? I meant that as a matter of elimination, Mis and Dim are more likely scum (basically I agree with Dim on this, but I believe you're town, so there's a 50% chance that either Mis or Dim are scum.) But as for being recruited, it's more likely they'd recruit the claimed power roles.

Anyway, NL only works if we don't have more recruits.

An 11 player game with a cult leader that transforms others into cult leaders seem broken to me, because, it doesn't matter if we lynch cult every night, as there would always be some new recruit and we're never done. Maybe this would explain the absence of mafia, but if there was a recruit I believe we'd be done if we lynch them.

...

Wow, I started writing this message several hours ago, and didn't send it because I had more to say. But I already forgot...

But here's this:

Spoiler:
That's awesome Madge! I still can't understand how a man can share a woman he loves, but I wish you the best in your marriage, and you're also a big hero of my sister! :) She sends you all her regard and want to know if you have a website to check out or something :mrgreen:

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Re: Draculafia! D2 - The Undead Dead

Postby mpolo » Sun Nov 08, 2015 4:24 pm UTC

My Internet has been kicking in and out the whole day, so let's at least try to get something in…

At present, I trust bessie, but she does seem to be a likely recruit target.

I agree that an inheritable recruit would likely be unbalanced here, especially as we've seen no anti-recruiting stuff.

I think I am still for voting jimbob, but I'm not willing to put him at L-1 yet.
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Re: Draculafia! D2 - The Undead Dead

Postby Misnomer » Sun Nov 08, 2015 8:30 pm UTC

Right, playing catch-up here so still reading through and digesting what's going on, but here's some immediate reactions to developments:

Misnomer, if you couldn't lynch me, who do you think should be lynched today, and why? Also, do you still maintain your position on my apparent scum-slip? I expect good responses.
1. At this point in time, Vytron (see below).
2. Absolutely I stand by it. It looks scummy to me, and it's been a tell that's served me well scumhunting in other games.

Re: Vytron, my initial readthrough of his recent posts have not given me the same townie vibes I was getting D1 - not least the no lynch suggestion, which strikes me as absolute madness in a game where we anticipate a recruiting role. I need to do a close reading I think... I also need to try and get my head around all the bessie stuff.

Unvote while I get my thoughts in order.
moody7277 wrote:The role of SDK in this game will be played by Misnomer. [/soapopera]

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Re: Draculafia! D2 - The Undead Dead

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Sun Nov 08, 2015 9:41 pm UTC

mpolo wrote:I agree that an inheritable recruit would likely be unbalanced here, especially as we've seen no anti-recruiting stuff.
Madge claimed a doctor who could prevent the recruit, if I am not mistaken, and moody claimed jailkeeper, which will also block the recruit, so that would be anti-recruiting. Of course, we still have several players who have not claimed a power, so there may be something in there as well.

bessie wrote:This doesn’t make sense. If you have to kill indie-Renfield, OK. But if you have to kill town-Quincy, you are anti-town so it doesn’t make sense that you would win with town.
I would be anti-town in my goal at that point. If town won before I had completed that goal, then I would have lost. If however, I had manged to get Quincy lynched before game over, I would only win if town won after that point, i.e. ignoring being recruited or other crazy alignment change things, if scum had won, I would have lost.

I'd be extremely hesitant to assume that the recruiting stopped with Dracula's death, and that therefore, we have at most two scum remaining (initial team-mate/D1 recruit, and N1 recruit). If the recruiting is still going on, e.g. because the recruit was inherited, then we should be worrying more about this recruiting faction, and less so about me, who may be anti-town, but is not necessarily going to make the game harder for town as things go on.

Question for everyone: assuming for a second that there was a N1 recruit, and no N0/D1 recruit, who do you think was the most likely recruit (or at least recruit target) last night, and why? If you really don't think there was a recruit last night, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts about other recruiting possibilities.

To answer my own question, I reckon one of {freezeblade, dimochka, misnomer} was the N1 recruit, if successful, otherwise a blocked attempt at Madge. I'd say dimochka was most likely to be recruited: I could see the recruiter avoiding choosing freezeblade, since as the only other claimed townie, he was the most likely target for Madge. Not too sure about misnomer. I need to see more content from them to be able to do a comparison, but others seem to think him a likely recruit target, simply because of lack of other sane options. Dimochka doesn't seem to really be analysing anyone apart from me, from a content perspective. I'm concerned about how hard he seems to be pushing against me, without looking at others. (I'm less concerned about bessie, because she at least is looking at others). You can see further details in my reads list from yesterday.
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Re: Draculafia! D2 - The Undead Dead

Postby Vytron » Sun Nov 08, 2015 9:43 pm UTC

Vote: Misnomer

I agree with Dim about 1 or two scum players are in the {Dim, Jim, Mis} group, and I don't think it's Dim, I believe Jim and me killed Dracula twice (for good measure) and so we're left with Mis.

It seems I'm on Misnormer's agenda to be lynched, and, oh yeah, he's great at picking some small detail and blowing it up out of proportions. If he wants me lynched he'll probably use all his abilities to successfully convince people to mislynch me.

I... I actually have decided to kill Misnormer tonight.

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Re: Draculafia! D2 - The Undead Dead

Postby Madge » Sun Nov 08, 2015 10:33 pm UTC

Only time for a quick post right now but I had a thought - DJ always has such lovely, intricate flavour. Do you think a double death would be implied in the flavour? Or do you think the sanctity of the game would be paramount?

Just a thought.
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Re: Draculafia! D2 - The Undead Dead

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Sun Nov 08, 2015 10:53 pm UTC

Madge wrote:Only time for a quick post right now but I had a thought - DJ always has such lovely, intricate flavour. Do you think a double death would be implied in the flavour? Or do you think the sanctity of the game would be paramount?

Just a thought.

I did think about this, which was why I was initially suspicious of Vytron's claim, but then thinking about it, if it had mentioned the double kill, we would essentially have been able to confirm each other's actions (if it was only in the PM response), or even have everyone see our actions confirmed (if in general N1 flavour), without a power to that effect, which could have had the potential to unbalance things in some why. So, I think DJ provided us each with some lovely flavour based entirely on our own independent actions, as if we were the only ones (of course, I am assuming that Vytron had nothing additional in his flavour, but I didn't).
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Re: Draculafia! D2 - The Undead Dead

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Sun Nov 08, 2015 11:00 pm UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:... to unbalance things in some why.

EBWOP: to unbalance things in some way.
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Re: Draculafia! D2 - The Undead Dead

Postby Vytron » Mon Nov 09, 2015 4:45 am UTC

Yeah, I can say SDK was very alive when I... killed him, so if Jim saw the same thing, we probably killed Dracula simultaneously.

Despite DJ's efforts, we have basically confirmed our actions to each other, though.

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Re: Draculafia! D2 - The Undead Dead

Postby Misnomer » Mon Nov 09, 2015 8:35 am UTC

so, in an act of glorious timing my Internet has gone down. Posting from phone so apologies for brevity.

Vytron wrote:Vote: Misnomer

I agree with Dim about 1 or two scum players are in the {Dim, Jim, Mis} group, and I don't think it's Dim, I believe Jim and me killed Dracula twice (for good measure) and so we're left with Mis.

It seems I'm on Misnormer's agenda to be lynched, and, oh yeah, he's great at picking some small detail and blowing it up out of proportions. If he wants me lynched he'll probably use all his abilities to successfully convince people to mislynch me.

I... I actually have decided to kill Misnormer tonight.
Blimey, where did this come from? Yes I'm good at picking up on small points - because that's how you successfully hunt scum. The instant vote on me after I posted the merest of suspicions looks out of proportion and seems to be an effort to preempt any argument I make with an omgus dynamic. Vytron's play style has been so different today vs yesterday that I can't dismiss it, just as I can't imagine town! Vytron would ever seriously float no lynch in a game with recruiting flavour. I think he was the night one recruit so

Vote Vytron
moody7277 wrote:The role of SDK in this game will be played by Misnomer. [/soapopera]

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Re: Draculafia! D2 - The Undead Dead

Postby Djehutynakht » Mon Nov 09, 2015 12:11 pm UTC

Deadline in something like 41 hours.

Votals:

jimbobmacdoodle - 2 (freezeblade, dimochka)
Bessie - 2 (Madge, moody7277)
dimochka - 1 (jimbobmacdoodle)
Misnomer - 1 (Vytron)
Vytron - 1 (Misnomer)

Not Voting: 2 (Mpolo, Bessie)

9 alive, 5 to lynch

Votals are tied. As always, an extension will be given if tied at deadline.

Tentative deadline: Tuesday, Nov. 10 at 11:59 PM EST



jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Side point from reading the player list: DJ, why did you cross your name out and rewrite your name in your first post??


Uh...

No comment.

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Re: Draculafia! D2 - The Undead Dead

Postby moody7277 » Mon Nov 09, 2015 4:06 pm UTC

Not a reads list, just where my opinion is on everyone.

not going to lynch:
fb- claim seems pretty solid
Madge- would like to, but I seem to be the only one who would
mpolo- has looked townie, and he verified that I visited Madge N1
dimochka- nothing against him
Misnomer- nothing against him

not sure of:
Vytron- would have had him in the first category, but sugggesting No Lynch at this point pinged me something terrible
jimbob- looked very solidly town D1, trajectory of his posts changed a bit. charachter claim is not in the novel, and his vig status has been counterclaimed


current vote:
bessie- town looking status D1 makes her a good cadidate to have been recruited
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BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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Re: Draculafia! D2 - The Undead Dead

Postby mpolo » Mon Nov 09, 2015 5:14 pm UTC

I'm going mostly by flavor/claims here, but, ignoring recruits, I have a couple of new ideas:

bessie - I think I know her role - Town
freezeblade - Claim (Holmwood) seems reasonable - Town
jimbob - I believe he was neutral at the start, possibly now townie. Not the biggest threat, by any means - Neutral-townie
moody - I think I know his role - Town
Vytron - claim (Morris) seems solid (some doubt that he has a Vig every night, though) - Town
Madge - claim (Van Helsing) seems solid - Town

This leaves me with two primary candidates for the lynch: Misnomer and dimochka. One of them likely has a role that is not in the book, the other is likely Lucy.

I am ignoring recruits here, because my current assumption is that only the original Undead are likely to be recruiters, so that if we can get an original undead, we are better off.
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Re: Draculafia! D2 - The Undead Dead

Postby Vytron » Mon Nov 09, 2015 8:03 pm UTC

I didn't vote you because you suspected me, read my post again, I voted you based on a matter of elimination, with you being on a group of three players that was likely to have scum in it, and your preparation to build a case on me to be a deciding factor.

Curiously, I expected better, you just say "Vytron's style is different than yesterday" over and over, but don't provide examples, to give me the chance to defend against your arguments. But, anyway.

Unvote

Just wanted to see if you'd OMGUS me, I'd have expected town!Mis to control himself about it, and to discuss matters (being more specific on your suspicion of me), but you acted just like scum!Mis would act.

I actually believe lynching you would be a waste, because I said I'll kill you at night.

Vote: Bessie

Who probably was recruited.

I guess I'd rather lynch Dim, since if the group of three has two scum Dim must be the second, but other than that, it's this or ScumRoleblocker!Moody claiming Jailer that should go.

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Re: Draculafia! D2 - The Undead Dead

Postby Djehutynakht » Mon Nov 09, 2015 8:27 pm UTC

Votals:

jimbobmacdoodle - 2 (freezeblade, dimochka)
Bessie - 3 (Madge, moody7277, Vytron)
dimochka - 1 (jimbobmacdoodle)
Vytron - 1 (Misnomer)

Not Voting: 2 (Mpolo, Bessie)

9 alive, 5 to lynch

Tentative deadline: Tuesday, Nov. 10 at 11:59 PM EST

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Re: Draculafia! D2 - The Undead Dead

Postby dimochka » Mon Nov 09, 2015 8:57 pm UTC

Ok, let's stop wasting time. I'm detective cotford. My presence was implied in the opening flavor. I'm obviously a cop. I copped bessie overnight and she is town and alive (but I obviously don't know her role).

There's obviously a slight chance that we're both scummates and I'm protecting her but the more likely options are:
1. we're both town
2. I'm scum and she's town

Regardless, unless you think I'm playing that ridiculous gambit, please remove your votes from her, at least for today.
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