1666: "Brain Upload"

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1666: "Brain Upload"

Postby Al-pocalypse » Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:12 pm UTC

Image

URL: http://xkcd.com/1666/

Title Text: I just spent 20 minutes deciding whether to start an email with 'Hi' or 'Hey', I think it transferred correctly.
Ali ;)

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Re: 1666: "Brain Upload"

Postby rmsgrey » Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:23 pm UTC

GOOMHR...

I'm not saying I tend to overthink things. I'm also not saying that this is the fifth seventh draft of this post...

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Re: 1666: "Brain Upload"

Postby HES » Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:31 pm UTC

rmsgrey wrote:I'm also not saying that this is the fifth seventh draft of this post...

Hey, at least you got there in the end. I write about twice as many replies as I actually post.
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Re: 1666: "Brain Upload"

Postby Flumble » Mon Apr 11, 2016 4:14 pm UTC

Isn't "neural-digital" more like "moving your fingers"? A computer itself is already a thing that elicits a neural response to the fingers. Sometimes one to a whole arm or even a leg.

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Re: 1666: "Brain Upload"

Postby TheEngineer » Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:03 pm UTC

I made sure I encrypted my consciousness before uploading it. Strange thing is the uploaded data makes more sense than the original ...

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Re: 1666: "Brain Upload"

Postby da Doctah » Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:59 pm UTC

Al-pocalypse wrote:I just spent 20 minutes deciding whether to start an email with 'Hi' or 'Hey'


Haven't you heard? All sentences should now begin with "So".

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Re: 1666: "Brain Upload"

Postby Copper Bezel » Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:30 pm UTC

But is it "So hey," or "So, um,"?
So much depends upon a red wheel barrow (>= XXII) but it is not going to be installed.

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Re: 1666: "Brain Upload"

Postby HES » Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:04 pm UTC

So, um, hey.

Just to be safe.
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Re: 1666: "Brain Upload"

Postby Soupspoon » Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:45 pm UTC

TheEngineer wrote:I made sure I encrypted my consciousness before uploading it. Strange thing is the uploaded data makes more sense than the original ...
Mine might already be encrypted. It's certainly pre-compressed, as it starts off "PK".

(But continues with "\x05\x06"... oh dear... I was hoping at least "\x07\x08", to explain things.)

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Re: 1583: "NASA Press Sobe Sauncen"

Postby Eternal Density » Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:39 am UTC

Yeep wrote:Now in the Deringreen when I remember Chimpinus comic/has in the phrsoud principle reading.

Just: I would be the need to get uf HAS

Title Wingo really people their yous many dead around it when I say tell
dudn the red firshess which things would have been prims, that beginned using up in that paif pitches. No different time to fill in the first same things unto how sound with the state I think why there is life to say that we're period may, that's written may still make philosophy or number and wascan on the gray of world and sped two society.


Except in pictures and in!


Spoiler:
The title and contents of this post (apart from the contents of this spoiler box) were generated by a neural network which I trained earlier today on a sample of text taken from the forum a few months ago. So basically I uploaded all your brains, and this is the result.
Yes, it's not well trained yet.
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Re: 1666: "Brain Upload"

Postby Copper Bezel » Tue Apr 12, 2016 5:14 am UTC

Just be a good mommy and don't let it talk to 4chan, okay?
So much depends upon a red wheel barrow (>= XXII) but it is not going to be installed.

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Re: 1608: "Hoverboard"

Postby Eternal Density » Tue Apr 12, 2016 6:57 am UTC

Copper Bezel wrote:Just be a good mommy and don't let it talk to 4chan, okay?
There's no way I'm scraping 4chan. Or Twitter.

Spoiler:
[quote]uncirnus wrote:[quote]ps wrote:The 9"thungene is already when you doubly spellated to the point some field why true and occupying it, this is what me engineers on the opinion from complematory, it would be on an entirely 2.55 did to make one community I suggest the species listen filter typ. [img]./images/smilies/icon_cool.grvigigi.fit.gif[/img]

Bases supports rather instraction is not assumption: I love some what the philosophy?

Edize with when A: (So many scientists) spont yess once)? But if it is funny make it until in the images, etc.........

That issue on be reload sciences where people more than without bub interess that Meroshes with much, Rapide on a name of ones dapan, as the javascript this one. pread timeless, most of the Strima down (annoyed DV problem. Semimally, it's the other spacewhere big suffererar incoufe I hope it without her in a reading the ethical comimal. Because there's much image.


Actually, a groot or made ptic of apparent appropriately, to dislinct the the authorities.

One of the most important factors is the input format. My first attempt doesn't do quotes all that well, and doesn't do spoilers at all, let alone other constructions. It also tries img tags, but not well :P
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Re: 1666: "Brain Upload"

Postby orthogon » Tue Apr 12, 2016 10:02 am UTC

da Doctah wrote:
Al-pocalypse wrote:I just spent 20 minutes deciding whether to start an email with 'Hi' or 'Hey'


Haven't you heard? All sentences should now begin with "So".

So as far as I know, we haven't covered the initial So in this forum (no doubt it's been discussed elsewhere on the board, but...).

I quite like it, actually; or at least it doesn't annoy me. It seems to me that so is used in the sense "what I'm about to say follows directly from your question or comment"; in other words the speaker is saying "you have raised a good point or valid question, and I am about to engage head-on with it; you are my equal in this discussion and I acknowledge and welcome your comment to such an extent that I can join my response to yours with a conjunction as though I had raised the issue myself; it is as though you and I were speaking with one voice".
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1666: "Brain Upload"

Postby addams » Tue Apr 12, 2016 11:47 am UTC

orthogon;
What a sweet post.

I have heard many Japanese people begin statements with the word, "So".
Your explanation of what that means is the best I have ever read.

"So...Hey!" (waves) "Hi."
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Re: 1666: "Brain Upload"

Postby Rombobjörn » Tue Apr 12, 2016 11:48 am UTC

Soupspoon wrote:Mine might already be encrypted. It's certainly pre-compressed, as it starts off "PK".

If you can read the "PK", then either your mind is unencrypted, or the compression didn't actually make it any smaller, or else the encryption was done entirely wrong.

Encrypted data is uncompressable, so if you're going to compress you need to do it before you encrypt. Then you must decrypt it before you can see whether it's compressed or not.

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Re: 1666: "Brain Upload"

Postby typo » Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:28 pm UTC

Rombobjörn wrote:Encrypted data is uncompressable, so if you're going to compress you need to do it before you encrypt. Then you must decrypt it before you can see whether it's compressed or not.

Aren't you over-generalizing? Rot13 is a form of encryption and the result is as compressible as the clear text.

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Re: 1666: "Brain Upload"

Postby Rombobjörn » Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:19 pm UTC

typo wrote:Aren't you over-generalizing? Rot13 is a form of encryption and the result is as compressible as the clear text.

Using a cipher that has been broken for more than a millennium falls squarely in the category "encryption done entirely wrong".

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Re: 1666: "Brain Upload"

Postby orthogon » Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:31 pm UTC

typo wrote:
Rombobjörn wrote:Encrypted data is uncompressable, so if you're going to compress you need to do it before you encrypt. Then you must decrypt it before you can see whether it's compressed or not.

Aren't you over-generalizing? Rot13 is a form of encryption and the result is as compressible as the clear text.

I guess what Rombobjörn should have said is "strongly encrypted data is uncompressable".
[pseudo-edit: ninja'd.]
The point is that compression works by exploiting structure in the input, and if structure in the plaintext leads to identifiable structure in the ciphertext, that's likely to indicate a weakness in the encryption (at the very least making it vulnerable to a known-plaintext attack).

addams wrote:orthogon;
What a sweet post.

I have heard many Japanese people begin statements with the word, "So".
Your explanation of what that means is the best I have ever read.

"So...Hey!" (waves) "Hi."

Thanks, addams, and great to see you again!

I hadn't noticed it from Japanese people, but it might be relevant that there's the Japanese word (そう), which means something surprisingly close to the English adverb so in the sense of "thus".
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1666: "Brain Upload"

Postby rmsgrey » Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:11 pm UTC

I've most often encountered the leading "so" as a way of getting attention before saying anything significant, as in "so, I hear there's a new comic book shop opening tomorrow."

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Re: 1666: "Brain Upload"

Postby orthogon » Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:37 pm UTC

rmsgrey wrote:I've most often encountered the leading "so" as a way of getting attention before saying anything significant, as in "so, I hear there's a new comic book shop opening tomorrow."

That's one usage, but the one I believe we're talking about is a putative new phenomenon, which is discussed here. Interestingly that article suggests it's more common amongst science and engineering types, which is where I've noticed it. (I didn't read that article before I wrote my post, but one of the comments makes a somewhat similar point).
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1666: "Brain Upload"

Postby Soupspoon » Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:56 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:The point is that compression works by exploiting structure in the input, and if structure in the plaintext leads to identifiable structure in the ciphertext, that's likely to indicate a weakness in the encryption (at the very least making it vulnerable to a known-plaintext attack).

Then there's (better or worse) variations upon the "encryptable compressed-file-format". One or both of using a less than super-optimal encryption that lends itself towards further compression and a less than super-optimal compression method that is amenable to further compression.

Could still be fiendishly difficult to get past whichever encryption layer(s) are in use. And with an encryption routine designed around the compression one, and/or vice-versa, you can design in the ability to handle the necessary 'markers' of one method so that they assist the other method1, obscuring yet further the origin against the more obvious 'cribs'.

(However, the intended joke was that it was an "null archive". Too geeky?)

Copious feetnete, only for any interested geek. Got a bit long and involved (and yet also generically vague!), sorry!
Spoiler:
1 Substitution cypher of a plaintext sentence might convert characters (and possibly other symbols/punctuation) to characters (and possibly other symbols/punctuation), like ROT13 (or ROT13+5n or ROT47), but may keep spaces as spaces2. But spaces are common (possibly more common than the letter 'e'!) and useful to tag. But if the compression/decompression routine knows that it expects spaces to be common (and even 'e's) and also that it can expect a limited number of inputs then, as well as being able to employ a method such as the "8 times 7-bits" => 7 times 8-bits" stage of compression (before/after symbol-group substitution) it is also now free to use slack-space in its 'expected dictionary', and randomly put 'reserved characters' in the place of spaces. Such characters already being disallowed from input (or, if they appear, given an alternate encoding3). But, depending upon the compression method, your algorithm may find that 7/8ths byte-compression actually gives a better result (e.g. a pre-existing 'dictionary entry' of an unrelated character-combo, but one which happens to be a bit-shifted 'clone' of what this particular stretch could look like, choosing the right space-replacement character from the available pool). Akin to selective "lossy compression", but you're 'losing' only the pure(ish) randomness your algorithm introduced into the first-stage cyphertext. If your algorithm keeps an eye on the relative entropy and ensures that perhaps 75% of 'true random choices' (or, as below, choices deliberately designed to obfuscate/fake further patterns) are maintained, for a significant compression advantage, then you might not have encrypted the stream to the maximum degree, nor compressed it to the maximum possible degree, but you've provided significant increase in (post-processing) transmission-rate whilst given the decoders4 a significant headache whilst trying to untangle such simple things as word-boundaries if, even after peeling off one or more 'onion layers' of abstraction you find that there's no statistical reason to consider any particular subset of several symbols5 as being the superset assigned (by the unknown key) for a whitespace character in the jumble that remains.

Vice-versa, if the compression method has a common meta-value (perhaps indicating "look up pre-stored sequence N", in something akin to LZW) in the post-compression phase, a further layer of encryption/obfuscation that surrounds it can treat that meta-value's 'magic' byte as "too common to leave alone" and add in some (reversible) randomness to the scheme. If the compression method doesn't already have an in-built 'randomiser' to its meta-value indicator(s). (Trivial example: for two traditionally different meta-values indicating perhaps that the next byte(s) in the stream are parameters to either "use common sequence N" or "repeat last C values in the stream T more times", when the value the meta-value follows has even parity, use value-A and value-B to indicate, respectively, but otherwise use value-B and value-A, respectively, instead. Better tweaks than this exist, though.)


2 You can smoosh them out altogether, and possibly regroup the cyphertext in fixed/arbitrary 'wordlengths', but that's best for handcyphering and is a 'lossy encryption' that potentially introduces errors when being read if context isn't obvious. (Contrived example - First message: "HISNEPHEWSAREONEYEAROLDTWOYEARSOLDANDTWENTYONEYEARSOLD". Second message "CORRECTIONTOLASTMESSGEEVERYONEISTWO". Is that "Every 'one' is to be read as 'two'", i.e. two, two (still) and twenty-two? Or "Everyone mentioned is two years old!"?) An algorithmic encoder/decoder couldn't do that.

3 Imagine half the spaces being possibly represented by the '®' symbol and the other half being represented by the '©' symbol. But just statistically, not strictly alternately! If you allow them in the input, rare as they will be, consider using ® and © as intermediate encodings (and then consider whether to use '¥' and 'µ' (as random examples!) to semi-randomly replace '&' and ';' in unambiguous contexts (including as "¥microµ", "µreg¥", "µyenµ", and "¥copy¥", amongst all the rest, to mix things up even further...), if it looks like the simpler resulting patterns might become too easy for Eve to spot in your communications.

In fact, also discourage (but you don't need to remove altogether, just below that of reasonable level of 'statistical noise') obvious pairs. ""s and even asymmetric pairs such as ()s can be given their own designated variable-replacements. For extra credit, keep a running 'pseudo-statistical' eye on the encrypted stream (or a multi-pass process, to obtain more omniscient effect) to actually encode "open-paren <blah> quote <blah-blah> (close)quote <blah> close-paren" as something reversible but pattern-changing, perhaps like "less-than <blah> greater-than <blah-blah> left-brace <blah> right-brace", the <> and {} characters actually being (some of the!) characters split across original 'enclosure character' pairings (originals of themselves, if allowed, are substituted by other '(anti)context sets'), to be opportunistically chosen by the algorithm to 'look good', in a misleading manner.

All the above is a trivial example, although could turn into a bugger to debug. ;)

4 For this trivial example assumed to be decoders working 'blind' on the cyphertext. One actually cannot rule out decoders who have access to the general algorithm (if not key to be used with it) and probably full knowledge of the 'little tips and tricks', so that they can tease out more detail But I'm not even designing a basic PGP-level of decryption-resilience into this little thought experiment of mine, and how to do so is left as an exercise to the reader... :P

5 Although "symbolX is never adjacent to symbolY" might be a starting crib (assuming no double-spaces in the source and Eve knows what it is she's supposed to be looking for), akin to "symbolW is invariably followed by symbolZ" as a crib for finding "qu"s in a simple substitution-cypher text or close-enough analogue, even (not quite so obviously) in a Playfair cypher. Although there's ways to deal with those vulnerabilities, too, that you can easily extrapolate.

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Re: 1666: "Brain Upload"

Postby orthogon » Tue Apr 12, 2016 4:38 pm UTC

Soupspoon wrote:Copious feetnete, only for any interested geek.

I think you just did a brain upload, and mine has frozen as a result!

Also, one of the commenters on that Language Log article used "in medias res", in the context of "so this man walks into a pub", which is the sort of awesome juxtaposition of highfalutin technicality and everyday vernacular that makes the work of linguists such a delight to read.
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1666: "Brain Upload"

Postby cellocgw » Wed Apr 13, 2016 11:04 am UTC

Frist to say: Hey, Randall, Rudy Rucker might want a word with you. Or Mister Frosty might, too.
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Re: 1666: "Brain Upload"

Postby xtifr » Wed Apr 13, 2016 8:13 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:Also, one of the commenters on that Language Log article used "in medias res", in the context of "so this man walks into a pub", which is the sort of awesome juxtaposition of highfalutin technicality and everyday vernacular that makes the work of linguists such a delight to read.

Maybe it's just because I grew up around a lot of writers, but I have a hard time thinking of "in media res" as "highfalutin'". I'm pretty sure the concept gets covered in any introductory literature or creative writing classes. It's about as common a concept as "McGuffin". Which is to say, it's a technical term, but a pretty common one.

To me, the term invokes cheesy action thriller, rather than the marbled halls of academia. Maybe it's just me? (And the fact that I know and/or am related to a lot of people who write cheesy action thrillers for a living?) :)
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Re: 1666: "Brain Upload"

Postby Copper Bezel » Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:29 pm UTC

KevinM wrote:The initial "so" is also an implementation of the narrative technique of beginning a story in media res. "So this guy walks into a bar…"

Honestly, it seems mostly legit to me. But then, my program was in creative writing, so I've had plenty of opportunity to be desensitized to spontaneous shifts in register, lol.
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Re: 1666: "Brain Upload"

Postby orthogon » Thu Apr 14, 2016 7:26 am UTC

OK, well it's Latin, which seems pretty highfalutin to me, but then I did go to a comprehensive school. And I only recently discovered tvtropes, which is where all my knowledge of narrative techniques comes from, so I still feel like I've been let in on a big secret!
Last edited by orthogon on Thu Apr 14, 2016 12:27 pm UTC, edited 2 times in total.
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1666: "Brain Upload"

Postby Soupspoon » Thu Apr 14, 2016 12:17 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:And I only recently discovered tvtropes, which is where all my knowledge of narrative techniques comes from, so I still feel like I've been let in on a big secret!
All the secrets! Except for how to stop reading TVTropes! How many browser tabs do you currently have open on obscure TV series or dramatic memes right now, eh? ;)

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Re: 1666: "Brain Upload"

Postby Dave Rogers » Thu Apr 14, 2016 12:28 pm UTC

da Doctah wrote:
Al-pocalypse wrote:I just spent 20 minutes deciding whether to start an email with 'Hi' or 'Hey'


Haven't you heard? All sentences should now begin with "So".


So, it has come to this.

Dave

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Re: 1666: "Brain Upload"

Postby orthogon » Thu Apr 14, 2016 12:29 pm UTC

Soupspoon wrote:
orthogon wrote:And I only recently discovered tvtropes, which is where all my knowledge of narrative techniques comes from, so I still feel like I've been let in on a big secret!
All the secrets! Except for how to stop reading TVTropes! How many browser tabs do you currently have open on obscure TV series or dramatic memes right now, eh? ;)

I'm getting better at it, but can still get lost down the rabbit hole.

[The following was first posted as an ETA, but Soupspoon posted while I was working on it, so I've moved it here].

Possible unrelated, but what's going on with the use of the demonstrative this to qualify our thirsty protagonist? Normally that would be used to specify an object that's nearby spatially, or nearby in a conversational sense, i.e. referred to quite recently, and we'd expect an indefinite article the first time a new individual is introduced: "A second guy walks into the pub. This guy orders a pint". I'm wondering whether it's part of the same phenomenon as the initial So, i.e. the speaker is pretending (a) that the sentence follows as a consequence of something they've said before, whereas in fact this is the first time we're being made aware of the scenario, and (b) that the principal character is also already known to us, when in fact we're meeting him for the first time. On the other hand, this "indefinite this" is very common, not just in jokes; perhaps it's doing something else: conjuring up the person or object and making them almost physically present in the room. "This guy, right here!"

ETA: there's this paper on the topic. "Cataphoric use of indefinite this".
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1666: "Brain Upload"

Postby Soupspoon » Thu Apr 14, 2016 1:43 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:
Soupspoon wrote:
orthogon wrote:And I only recently discovered tvtropes, which is where all my knowledge of narrative techniques comes from, so I still feel like I've been let in on a big secret!
All the secrets! Except for how to stop reading TVTropes! How many browser tabs do you currently have open on obscure TV series or dramatic memes right now, eh? ;)

I'm getting better at it, but can still get lost down the rabbit hole.

[The following was first posted as an ETA, but Soupspoon posted while I was working on it, so I've moved it here].
I feel for you... [and sorry! ;) ]


Possible unrelated, but what's going on with the use of the demonstrative this to qualify our thirsty protagonist? Normally that would be used to specify an object that's nearby spatially, or nearby in a conversational sense, i.e. referred to quite recently, and we'd expect an indefinite article the first time a new individual is introduced: "A second guy walks into the pub. This guy orders a pint". I'm wondering whether it's part of the same phenomenon as the initial So, i.e. the speaker is pretending (a) that the sentence follows as a consequence of something they've said before, whereas in fact this is the first time we're being made aware of the scenario, and (b) that the principal character is also already known to us, when in fact we're meeting him for the first time. On the other hand, this "indefinite this" is very common, not just in jokes; perhaps it's doing something else: conjuring up the person or object and making them almost physically present in the room. "This guy, right here!"


IANALingusiticsExpert, but...
"This" acts as an imperative version of "The", centralising the subject in the tale.
"A (second) guy walks into a pub." - Ok, we have a(n updated) scenario. Guy. Pub. The former walking into it.1

"The guy orders a pint." - normal continuation for "A <ordinally identified?> guy". We have been introduced to "A guy", and now they're "The guy". We're concentrating on "the guy" and not "the pub". If there were not the pre-second guy, the last 'guy' involved would be definitely the object (and subject) of what we're now talking about now. But
"This guy orders a pint." - zeroing in upon the most recent "guy", with the definite sense that the story will revolve around him until specified otherwise2. Within the story, we are clearly meant to currently be shoulder-to-shoulder with this character, in some manner.
"The other guy orders a pint." - 'Remember the first guy, that we briefly sidelined for the introduction of another generic guy? Get back to him...'. Shoulder-to-shoulder with Guy#1, listeners! At least until I tell you otherwise!

There's even the short-cut of starting off with "this". (Also, "So...") Immediately centres the individual in the tale as what the whole tale-world will (probably!) berevolving around.

"So, there's this guy. Walks into a pub, wearing a ruff and holding a quill3. Orders a drink. Barman says 'You're bard!'..."

It's a bit like a Pascal-ish "with <foo> do <statements...>" encoding. Allows any and all contextless statements to be mentally resolved.

"So, there's a guy. He walks into a pub, wearing a ruff and holding a quill. He orders a drink. Barman says to him 'You're bard!'..."

In the two-guy scenario, though, there might yet be a push/pop operation upon the object data:
"So, there's this guy. Walks into a pub. Second guy walks in. Hits him. Calmly walks out again. Barman asks 'Friend of yours?'..."
With the paucity of information, it (probably) should be understood who hit who. (#2 hit #1.) And who walked out. (#2) Leaving who to be talked to (#1). But it could be different, depends on where the joke is heading.

"A second guy" being in the fore of the mind when "This guy hits him" gets invoked, therefore, forces the second guy into the role as the 'definite object'. As it were. Compare "That guy hits him".

...although a lot of it's down to the skill (and possibly misdirecting intent6) of the joke-teller (with, minimally, the quality/timbre of the joke) and the familiarity (or sharing) of the listeners with the natural dialect of the speaker, which can produce great variations in the nature of the informal English being used4.

I'm not sure I'd trust an algorithm to parse these things correctly, although some of them are surprisingly good at 'seemingly natural language' parsing.


(Well, that expanded quickly. And is probably somewhat wrong, or at least biased to my own particular dialect.)


1 Although it's more usually "the bar" that he walks into (ouch, it's an iron bar), the bar being a room (one of several?) typically within a pub. It's possible he was already in the pub, perhaps just been to the loo. Or in a different bar in the same establishment. Or in the games room. Or the gym, if it's actually a hotel. (With a gym.) It's not necessary that he has entered the pub (or hotel, or wherever) and then straight up to the(/a) bar, although if he's all wet and it's raining outside then it's a good chance. Unless that's part of the subsequent joke. And the hotel also has a pool.

2 You'd be getting a funny(-peculiar) tale if "This guy orders a pint. The jockey wants a packet of crisps. The Rabbinical Priest asks for a lemon-soda. The actress throws a bar-stool through a window and the police arrive. The horse asks 'Why the the short faces?'..." I hope you're already primed to expect meta-humour, in such cases.

3 Or some other description, more suited to an Eisteddfod. Depends upon your audience. ;)

4 Around these 'ere parts, there was for quite some time a quite distinctive linguistic line where on one side it's "I was, he was, she was, they was, we was...", and on the other it's "I were, he were, she were, they were, we were...". These days the sociolect seems to encourage whatever the past-participle is of "ur", etc, as it does globally... *natch*

6 A horse walks into a pub. The barman is cleaning glasses. He looks puzzled. "Yes", says the Barman, "I'm also an optician".

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Re: 1666: "Brain Upload"

Postby orthogon » Thu Apr 14, 2016 1:55 pm UTC

Soupspoon wrote:There's even the short-cut of starting off with "this". (Also, "So...") Immediately centres the individual in the tale as what the whole tale-world will (probably!) berevolving around.

That usage is what I'm talking about. I should perhaps have repeated the sentence I'm referring to: "So this guy walks into a pub". But your analysis agrees with the paper I cited, i.e. the use of indefinite this is a warning that the referent is going to be important. The authors go so far as to suggest that in some sense it's the same this, but instead of meaning "the one I already mentioned" it's "the one I'm going to mention again". Same meaning, different direction in time.
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1666: "Brain Upload"

Postby ijuin » Thu Apr 14, 2016 4:42 pm UTC

Soupspoon wrote:
orthogon wrote:And I only recently discovered tvtropes, which is where all my knowledge of narrative techniques comes from, so I still feel like I've been let in on a big secret!
All the secrets! Except for how to stop reading TVTropes! How many browser tabs do you currently have open on obscure TV series or dramatic memes right now, eh? ;)


I tend to open more and more TVTropes tabs until my browser crashes due to lack of RAM. The most recent time this happened, I had about eleven hundred tabs open.

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Re: 1666: "Brain Upload"

Postby Steve the Pocket » Fri Apr 15, 2016 5:59 am UTC

I'd ask "How did we get off on this tangent?" but I think I already know the answer and that it's "immediately".
cephalopod9 wrote:Only on Xkcd can you start a topic involving Hitler and people spend the better part of half a dozen pages arguing about the quality of Operating Systems.

Baige.

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Re: 1666: "Brain Upload"

Postby The Moomin » Fri Apr 15, 2016 12:56 pm UTC

The screen flickered blue and yellow while emitting a loud squeal before overheating and resetting.

We're going to unplug you, blow in your ears, and try again.
I'm alive because the cats are alive.
The cats are alive because I'm alive.
Specious.

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Re: 1666: "Brain Upload"

Postby addams » Fri Apr 15, 2016 1:20 pm UTC

The Moomin wrote:We're going to unplug you, blow in your ears, and try again.

That's funny.
Very funny.
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Re: 1666: "Brain Upload"

Postby PM 2Ring » Sat Apr 16, 2016 7:31 am UTC

orthogon wrote:So as far as I know, we haven't covered the initial So in this forum (no doubt it's been discussed elsewhere on the board, but...).

I quite like it, actually; or at least it doesn't annoy me. It seems to me that so is used in the sense "what I'm about to say follows directly from your question or comment"; in other words the speaker is saying "you have raised a good point or valid question, and I am about to engage head-on with it; you are my equal in this discussion and I acknowledge and welcome your comment to such an extent that I can join my response to yours with a conjunction as though I had raised the issue myself; it is as though you and I were speaking with one voice".


I find that usage of leading "So" quite acceptable. What irks me is when it's used in an initial statement rather than in a response. When I see a question on Stackoverflow that begins with "So" I have to stop myself from giving an instant down-vote, or a snarky comment informing the OP that the first half of their opening sentence appears to be missing. ;)


orthogon wrote:The point is that compression works by exploiting structure in the input, and if structure in the plaintext leads to identifiable structure in the ciphertext, that's likely to indicate a weakness in the encryption (at the very least making it vulnerable to a known-plaintext attack).

This.


Soupspoon wrote:Then there's (better or worse) variations upon the "encryptable compressed-file-format". One or both of using a less than super-optimal encryption that lends itself towards further compression and a less than super-optimal compression method that is amenable to further compression


On a closely-related note, I discovered many years ago that if you convert binary data to a printable hex string, (i.e., convert "\x42\xde\xad" to "42dead") it often compresses a little better than the raw binary data, at least with LZ family compressors.

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Re: 1666: "Brain Upload"

Postby Soupspoon » Sat Apr 16, 2016 11:21 am UTC

PM 2Ring wrote:On a closely-related note, I discovered many years ago that if you convert binary data to a printable hex string, (i.e., convert "\x42\xde\xad" to "42dead") it often compresses a little better than the raw binary data, at least with LZ family compressors.

A phenomenon related to Benford's Law, perhaps?

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Re: 1666: "Brain Upload"

Postby Flumble » Sat Apr 16, 2016 3:41 pm UTC

So, today I've started prefixing an out-of-the-blue statement/question with "soooo," and it works really well to grab the attention, so I don't have to repeat parts of or the whole statement. I'm quite used to doing it in Dutch ("Duuuuussss," (which has also become a meme when a silence endures)) and German ("Alsooooo,") anyway. So I guess I'm sticking with it.

And in French it'd probably be "Alooooors,"? Also I'm hearing a lot of "でも" (romaji: demo) in anime, so can that be used as a starter too, or is it solely a whiny "but"?

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Re: 1666: "Brain Upload"

Postby Kalium_Puceon » Sat Apr 23, 2016 9:49 am UTC

Copper Bezel wrote:Just be a good mommy and don't let it talk to 4chan, okay?


Hey, if IBM thought it was a good idea to let Watson read the Urban Dictionary then we can let our AI selves on 4Chan.
"You never get over the desire to do stupid things. You simply have to overrule your stupid urges with an acquired sense of fear."

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