Who likes BREAD?

Apparently, people like to eat.

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Re: Who likes BREAD?

Postby Bakemaster » Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:01 am UTC

This is so much firmer than my starter has ever been that I have a lot of trouble feeding it. I have to knead it an unreasonable amount to work the flour in at 2:1.
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Re: Who likes BREAD?

Postby freezeblade » Tue Apr 21, 2015 4:19 pm UTC

Not to mention (well, actually, I am mentioning it) that creating a recipe fromt he ground up with a firm starter involves far more math than a 100% hydration one. Begin Internal monologue!

Example start point: 500g total flour wanted, 67% hydration, 15% of the flour prefermented as sourdough.

100% hydration starter: Easy! total flour is 500g, so total water is 335g. 15% of 500 is 75g, and an equal amount of water in the starter..335-75 issssss...ok. so the recipe is...

425g Flour
260g water
150g starter
10g salt (assumed 2%)

Compare this to 50% hydration starter: Ok. total flour 500g, 335 total water. 15% of 500 75. then...75 divided in half, to know how much water is in that starter...37.5. now add the two together. 112.5? hm. uneven numbers suck. Now minus the starter amounts from the totals..aaand:

425g flour
298g water (rounding here, might as well round up to a even number, I'd probably just do 300g)
112g starter (I'd probably round to 110g. close enough)
10g salt.

Way more thinking. but hey, YMMV. I prefer a stiff starter if I'm doing a sweet dough, like an italian sweet starter, but I keep a liquid for most everything else.
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Re: Who likes BREAD?

Postby KittyCathy » Tue Sep 01, 2015 9:30 am UTC

How can you not like bread? The best thing in the world

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Re: Who likes BREAD?

Postby PAstrychef » Wed Sep 02, 2015 8:22 pm UTC

KittyCathy wrote:How can you not like bread? The best thing in the world

Unless you have celiac disease. Then your bread has to be creative, or else you get sick.
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Re: Who likes BREAD?

Postby sardia » Wed Apr 06, 2016 3:26 pm UTC

So I hear it's possible to make bread with the bacteria in your home. I mixed old tap water (left it out overnight) with equal parts flour and left it out for a couple nights. I stir and add more flour nightly. I smell something sour but I see few bubbles and it feels thin when I stir it.
Problems that come to mind is my water still had chorine, the temperature is too cold ( 60-66 degrees Fahrenheit), or I didn't stir it enough initially.
It's been about 4 days and it looks like flour water mixture that smells sour. Should I make a new batch, use the current one for bread, or pour some into a new bowl of flour and water?

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Re: Who likes BREAD?

Postby sardia » Wed Apr 06, 2016 3:27 pm UTC

So I hear it's possible to make bread with the bacteria in your home. I mixed old tap water (left it out overnight) with equal parts flour and left it out for a couple nights. I stir and add more flour nightly. I smell something sour but I see few bubbles and it feels thin when I stir it.
Problems that come to mind is my water still had chorine, the temperature is too cold ( 60-66 degrees Fahrenheit), or I didn't stir it enough initially.
It's been about 4 days and it looks like flour water mixture that smells sour. Should I make a new batch, use the current one for bread, or pour some into a new bowl of flour and water?

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Re: Who likes BREAD?

Postby freezeblade » Wed Apr 06, 2016 4:37 pm UTC

I would start new, but follow a method. I got the starter I use most often from a friend of the family 7 years ago or so, but I have started some from scratch as well. Good methods:

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/233/wild-yeast-sourdough-starter I'm a member of this forum, great tips and good folk.
http://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/1016277-tartines-country-bread This is a good method as well, and comes with a bread recipe (although the exact recipe as written has mixed results, some find it very difficult, others it's a breeze.

I'd suggest using non-chlorinated water to start, a big gallon of "spring" water from the market should be sufficient until the starter is good and hearty, then I wouldn't worry about using tap water (I do, and did at the bakery I worked at).
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Re: Who likes BREAD?

Postby sardia » Wed Apr 06, 2016 11:45 pm UTC

freezeblade wrote:I would start new, but follow a method. I got the starter I use most often from a friend of the family 7 years ago or so, but I have started some from scratch as well. Good methods:

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/233/wild-yeast-sourdough-starter I'm a member of this forum, great tips and good folk.
http://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/1016277-tartines-country-bread This is a good method as well, and comes with a bread recipe (although the exact recipe as written has mixed results, some find it very difficult, others it's a breeze.

I'd suggest using non-chlorinated water to start, a big gallon of "spring" water from the market should be sufficient until the starter is good and hearty, then I wouldn't worry about using tap water (I do, and did at the bakery I worked at).

Ah, use lower ph to skip a otherwise unneeded step in a natural process. Makes sense.

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Re: Who likes BREAD?

Postby sardia » Tue Apr 12, 2016 11:39 pm UTC

ugh, it keeps coming out flat and gummy. Hmmm, I'm gonna try again with instant yeast and see if it's just my technique with dough.

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Re: Who likes BREAD?

Postby PAstrychef » Wed Apr 13, 2016 3:40 am UTC

I've been known to feed a starter for a week or more before using it. You are cultivating wild yeasts. Once you have the beginnings of fermentation you need to keep them fed and mix plenty of fresh air into the mix, until there is a large enough amount of yeasts in your mix. It should be moderately thick and viscous. It should smell a bit like beer. There should be plenty of bubbles.
One way to get a starter going is it make dough with a commercial yeast, then keep a portion (a levain) and add some water and fresh flour to it for a few days. This gives you an established yeast population to begin with. Some claim that you never develop a true wild yeast starter by using a levain, but if you leave your starter out for a day or two your local yeast will join in soon enough.
You can also add fruits, like a chopped up apple-skin on! or a bunch of grapes. The yeasts found on the skins add flavor to the starter.
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Re: Who likes BREAD?

Postby freezeblade » Wed Apr 13, 2016 11:06 pm UTC

sardia wrote:ugh, it keeps coming out flat and gummy. Hmmm, I'm gonna try again with instant yeast and see if it's just my technique with dough.


"Iron Hand, Velvet Glove" Is how I was taught to work with dough. That said, flat and gummy sounds over-fermented. What kind of recipe were you using, what was the timeline, etc. PAstrychef has more experience than me in the industry, I'm sure we can troubleshoot your process. Flat and gummy could be over-fermented, underdeveloped, or both.

PAstrychef wrote:[snipped about using yeast] Some claim that you never develop a true wild yeast starter by using a levain, but if you leave your starter out for a day or two your local yeast will join in soon enough.


I'm one of thoes people. I've read that because the wild yeast work differently with their metabolism, and the types of environments they like, it's actually counter-productive to add commercial yeast, and it will take much longer to get a proper levian going (I always learned "levain" as meaning a wild yeast/bacteria culture, and "sponge" or "biga" meaning a stiffer yeasted starter (with a poolish being 100% hydration).
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Re: Who likes BREAD?

Postby PAstrychef » Thu Apr 14, 2016 12:03 am UTC

I think of levaine as a piece of dough left from the last batch added to new dough.
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Re: Who likes BREAD?

Postby sardia » Thu Apr 14, 2016 12:28 am UTC

Here's my 3 Rd attempt, this time with instant yeast. How's my technique? It looks a bit flat, but the interior crumb is good. Was my initial dough too watery? My heat source is an oven plus two cast iron pans enclosed.
My yeast starter is definitely not thick and vicious. I guess I'll have to feed it more. What's this about fresh air? Like leave it uncovered or, paper towel over it?

Note. I'm intentionally only using leftovers around my house as opposed to buying anything specifically for baking. The big reason is I'm hesitant to invest in what may just be a fad. So all I'm using is flour, water and salt. Water is left out to aerate the chlorine, and flour hydrated will be the only source of sugar.
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Re: Who likes BREAD?

Postby freezeblade » Thu Apr 14, 2016 4:17 pm UTC

PAstrychef wrote:I think of levaine as a piece of dough left from the last batch added to new dough.

Most bread books I've seen call that a Pâte Fermentée, especially if the previous bread were yeasted.

Sardia: Looks like far too slack of a dough to me, that is also not developed enough (or a flour that is too old/has a really low gluten content). What was the recipe, and what was the type of flour used?
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Re: Who likes BREAD?

Postby sardia » Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:02 pm UTC

The flour is some leftover AP flour that I rarely use. The recipe is technically 70 parts water to 100 parts flour with some salt. Serious eats workhorse loaf.
Flour is between 6 months to 18 months old.

I'll try to work the dough more to see if that helps. Then I'll try again with fresh flour. Is it OK to feed old flour to yeast?
I see Google links showing old flour didn't develope gluten very well. But I don't see anything concrete.

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Re: Who likes BREAD?

Postby Izawwlgood » Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:30 pm UTC

I've been watching the Great British Bake Off, and will be trying a handful of recipes over the next week.

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Re: Who likes BREAD?

Postby freezeblade » Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:32 pm UTC

What brand though, protein content of flour can vary pretty widely between brands, and there are some brands which just won't make high-rising breads. For most lean doughs with a 70% hydration, I'd shoot for something with around a 11.7% protein level or so, which some brands of AP in the US fit, but other brands don't. Example: regular AP flour from Pillsbury or Gold Medal won't make strong breads.

spoilered for long length (I stole this from thefreshloaf.com)
Spoiler:
FLOUR PROTEIN BY TYPES AND BRANDS (retail flour):
.
CAKE FLOUR - 7% to 9.4% protein
Best Use: cakes, blending with national brands all-purpose flour to make pastry flour or Southern flour substitute.
-King Arthur Queen Guinevere Cake Flour, 7.0%
-King Arthur Unbleached Cake Flour Blend, 9.4%
-Pillsbury Softasilk Bleached Cake Flour, 6.9%
-Presto Self Rising Cake Flour, 7.4%
-Swans Down Bleached Cake Flour, 7.1%
.
PASTRY FLOUR - 8 to 9% protein
Best Use: biscuits, cookies, pastries, pancakes, pie crusts, waffles.
-King Arthur Unbleached Pastry Flour, 8%
-King Arthur Whole Wheat Pastry Flour, 9%
.
ALL-PURPOSE FLOUR, SOUTHERN - 8 to 9% protein
Best Use: biscuits, cookies, muffins, pancakes, pie crusts, quick breads, waffles.
-Martha White Bleached All-Purpose Flour, 9%
-White Lily Bleached All-Purpose Flour, 8 to 9%
.
ALL-PURPOSE FLOUR, BLEACHED & UNBLEACHED, NATIONAL BRANDS - 10 to 11.5% protein
Best Use: makes average biscuits, cookies, muffins, pancakes, pie crusts, pizza crusts, quick breads, waffles, yeast breads.
-Gold Medal All-Purpose Flour, 10.5%
-Pillsbury Best All-Purpose Flour, 10 to 11.5%
-Pioneer All-Purpose Flour, 10%
-White Wings All-Purpose Flour, 10%
.
ALL-PURPOSE FLOUR, NORTHERN, BLEACHED & UNBLEACHED - 11.5 to 12% protein
Best Use: cream puffs, puff pastry, yeast breads, pizza crusts.
-Heckers and Ceresota All-Purpose Flour, 11.5 to 11.9 %
-King Arthur All-Purpose Flour, 11.7%
-Robin Hood All-Purpose Flour, 12.0%
.
BREAD FLOUR - 12 to 13.3% protein
Best Use: traditional yeast breads, bread machine, pizza crusts, pasta.
-Gold Medal Better For Bread, 12%
-King Arthur Unbleached Bread Flour, 12.7%
-Pillsbury Best Bread Flour, 12.9%
-White Lily Unbleached Bread Flour, 11.7%
.
HIGH-GLUTEN FLOUR 14 to 15% protein
Best Use: bagels, pizza crusts, blending with other flours.
-King Arthur Organic Hi-Gluten Flour, 14%
-King Arthur Sir Lancelot Unbleached Hi-Gluten Flour, 14.2%
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Re: Who likes BREAD?

Postby sardia » Thu Apr 14, 2016 11:30 pm UTC

I worked the dough more and left it to sit over night in the fridge. It's storebrand, Baker's Corner AP Flour.
It's a bit thicker even though the initial dough was smaller.
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Re: Who likes BREAD?

Postby Jana111 » Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:03 pm UTC

Did you guys ever try bread with cranberry? It's delicious! :D

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Re: Who likes BREAD?

Postby pogrmman » Fri Jul 29, 2016 4:10 pm UTC

Cranberry bread is great! I love eating it (and baking it!)

I love sourdough too. I like using a firm (60% hydration) starter. I only keep like 90g, so I usually have to use a preferment.

My favorite breads are a sourdough boule -- I forget what book I got the recipe from, but I know it's originally from Della Fatoria bakery in California. I also really like a sourdough rosemary cibbatta recipe I found.

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Re: Who likes BREAD?

Postby sardia » Sat Jul 30, 2016 10:37 pm UTC

I got this very nice bottle of imported olive oil, harvested last year. It's bitter and peppery, and I've been using it to dip bread into. Should I season the oil with something? Or just rub some garlic onto the bread? I tried grinding some black pepper into it, but it doesn't seem to make much of a difference.

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Re: Who likes BREAD?

Postby PAstrychef » Sun Jul 31, 2016 1:50 am UTC

A bit of grated Parmesan and some crushed garlic muddled into the oil in a saucer is good.
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Re: Who likes BREAD?

Postby Zohar » Mon Aug 01, 2016 12:55 pm UTC

You can also mix (will, "pour to the bottom of the bowl" I suppose) a bit of balsamic vinegar.
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Re: Who likes BREAD?

Postby MWak » Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:42 pm UTC

I love me some bread but my gluten sensitivity means I don't eat the wheat kind anymore. Thankfully, gluten free breads are getting better all the time, and as a guys ho enjoys variety of ingredients in general I like to consider it its own thing rather than a bread imitation. I mean the in the same way that I look at Tofu as its own food rather than as a "meat substitute," which I think most people agree on at this point.

Maybe one day they'll make some version of a lactose pill, but instead of for lactose it will be for gluten and then I can eat all the bread I want.

Granted, if I ever go to Italy I'll be eating some of that real pizza and pasta with wheat flour. If I were a true celiac that would be impossible but as a guy with just gluten sensitivity, the effects would be something like that of a hangover except that instead of a headache I would have inflamed bowels and back pain for a day or two.

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Re: Who likes BREAD?

Postby pogrmman » Fri Aug 12, 2016 3:53 am UTC

MWak wrote:I love me some bread but my gluten sensitivity means I don't eat the wheat kind anymore. Thankfully, gluten free breads are getting better all the time, and as a guys ho enjoys variety of ingredients in general I like to consider it its own thing rather than a bread imitation. I mean the in the same way that I look at Tofu as its own food rather than as a "meat substitute," which I think most people agree on at this point.

Maybe one day they'll make some version of a lactose pill, but instead of for lactose it will be for gluten and then I can eat all the bread I want.

Granted, if I ever go to Italy I'll be eating some of that real pizza and pasta with wheat flour. If I were a true celiac that would be impossible but as a guy with just gluten sensitivity, the effects would be something like that of a hangover except that instead of a headache I would have inflamed bowels and back pain for a day or two.


Some of the food in Italy is totally worth it -- the pasta, pastry, and bread I had there was good. (Frankly, of the three, the bread was the worst -- I've had much better in the US, but the pastry and pasta was awesome).

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Re: Who likes BREAD?

Postby Echo244 » Fri Aug 12, 2016 8:03 am UTC

Which gluten free breads do you consider good? I generally veer towards Genius, but there are a couple of others - Schar (?) is pretty good and tastes a bit different, and there's also BeFree which manages to be gluten free and vegan.

Have you tried making your own? I've tried a couple of times, the best attempt being a sort of soda bread, but never really got what I consider good crumb texture. I'd love to be able to make fresh gluten-free bread, because even the best of the commercial offerings is... kind of made more with a several-month-long shelf life built in to it, rather than deliciousness.
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Re: Who likes BREAD?

Postby pogrmman » Mon Aug 15, 2016 11:18 pm UTC

Echo244 wrote:Which gluten free breads do you consider good? I generally veer towards Genius, but there are a couple of others - Schar (?) is pretty good and tastes a bit different, and there's also BeFree which manages to be gluten free and vegan.

Have you tried making your own? I've tried a couple of times, the best attempt being a sort of soda bread, but never really got what I consider good crumb texture. I'd love to be able to make fresh gluten-free bread, because even the best of the commercial offerings is... kind of made more with a several-month-long shelf life built in to it, rather than deliciousness.


I've had passable gluten free bread that somebody made, but I still don't think gluten free bread will ever be as good as the real stuff. That's why I'm glad I'm not celiac.
I just had some fantastic, fresh, homemade sourdough with soft cheese and olive oil. That taste can't even be replicated with most store-bought bread.

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Re: Who likes BREAD?

Postby ahammel » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:22 am UTC

I had a lot of fun with this recipe. I really like the tangzhong technique: you heat up a portion of the flour with some water until you get a glob of pudding-like gunk. The idea is to force more water into the dough, which gets you a softer crumb in theory.

My milk bread turned out pretty well, I though:
Spoiler:
Image
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There's a Cooks Illustrated recipe for dinner rolls using the same technique that my wife goes nuts for.
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Re: Who likes BREAD?

Postby pogrmman » Sat Feb 04, 2017 4:42 pm UTC

I've been perfecting a basic, rustic yeasted loaf recently -- I'm a big fan of sourdough, but as a college student, I don't have the time to maintain a starter.

Instead, I've been baking on Saturdays with a slow fermenting yeasted bread. I've been getting delicious results. I still need to work on shaping, but I'm getting there.

Here is the recipie (in baker's percent -- everything is expressed as a percentage of the total flour mass -- I use this so it's easy to scale. For instance, I'm doing a 1500g dough now).

Ingredients:
75-90% Unbleached All Purpose Flour
10-25% Whole Wheat or Whole Rye
70-75% Water
2% Salt
.18% Instant Yeast (varies by room temperature)

NB:
Why are there ranges? I vary those ingredients with most of the bakes. For instance, I prefer closer to 20-25% whole wheat if I'm using white whole wheat, while 10-15% is better with regular whole wheat. Going above 20% with rye makes the dough much harder to work with. The flour absorbs water differently based on the day and stuff like that, so that's why it varies.

Instructions:
1. The night before you want to bake, mix all of the water with an equal mass of flour (including all non-all purpurpose flour). Mix in the yeast. Cover the bowl with saran wrap or something similar.
2. Let this batter (called a poolish) sit out overnight.
3. The next morning, the poolish should look bubbly and be much bigger than the previous night. The top should not be flat -- instead, it should have a bunch of bumps from bubbles. Something like the picture at the end of the post. If not, let it sit out longer until it looks like that.
4. Add the rest of the flour and the salt. Mix together thouroughly. I do this by hand using a technique called "French Kneading" or "slap and folds". At the end of this step, there should be no clumps and the dough should be smooth, sticky, and elastic. Knead until it reaches that stage.
5. Tuck the dough under itself to pull a "skin" over the dough. This takes practice, you probably won't be able to get this on the first try. The dough will stick to your hands and the counter. This step isn't necessary, but it helps with the next steps.
6. Plop the dough in a bowl. Cover bowl with saran wrap or something similar.
7. Set a 30 minute timer.
8. When the timer goes off, remove the dough from the bowl gently. Gently stretch the edges of the lump so you make a rectangle.
9. Grab a side of the rectangle, pull it outwards as far as it will easily go without breaking. Fold it back over the center of the dough. Repeat for each side of the dough.
10. If you want, you can repeat step 9. Skip this step if the dough is pretty airy.
11. Put dough back in bowl and cover again
12. Repeat the previous 5 steps 3 more times, being more gentle with the dough each time. By the last time you do this, there will be lots of air in the dough. Be careful not to pop too many bubbles.
13. Let the dough sit in its bowl until it is very light and airy. It will probably be 2-3x the volume of the initial dough.
14. Sprinkle a little flour on the work surface. Remove dough from bowl (gently!).
15. Split dough into however many loaves you want. They should be roughtly equal, but it doesn't matter. A bench knife is helpful for this step, so you can make clean cuts on the dough.
16. Fold in the edges of each piece (gently!), stretching a tight layer over it. Flip the piece over.
17. Tuck the dough under itself. With a gentle circular motion, continue this. You should see a tight "skin" forming. Once the dough has this, and is smooth on the outside, set it aside.
18. Cover rounded pieces so they don't dry out.
19. Wait 20-40 minutes.
20. Shape each rounded piece as you see fit. You'll want a floured work surface. Here is a good introduction to shaping.
21. Cover the loaves so they don't dry out. I use a couche (effectively a big piece of linen with flour so they don't stick), but you can use a floured bowl or whatever you have.
22. Let the dough sit until it takes more than a second to "bounce back" after poking it with your finger.
23. If you have one, place a baking stone in the oven. Preheat to 500°F.
24. Once the dough takes a couple seconds to come back, it is ready to go into the oven. Put it on a piece of parchment paper (or a floured peel, if you have one).
25. Cut into the top of the loaf with something sharp. This is called scoring, and it allows the log to open up and raise in the oven. I use a razor. Make swift, clean cuts about 1/4-1/2" into the dough.
26. Place dough into oven (on a baking stone or a cookie sheet). Turn down to 420-450°F (depends on size of loaf).
27. Bake until crust is nicely browned.
28. Remove from oven. Tap the bottom of the loaf. If it sounds hollow, it is done. If it sounds dense and not hollow, it needs to be baked more. Turn down the temperature and place back into oven if it doesn't sound hollow.
29. Wait for the loaf to cool most of the way. Eat.

It takes practice, but you get nice results. I like steaming the oven for the first part of the bake (usually 10 minutes or so). Using a Dutch oven or similar can be done instead of steaming as well. It'll trap steam made by the bread. You get a better crust that way, but it's not entirely necessary.

Pictures:
Poolish ready to mix:
IMG_1759.JPG
Poolish Ready to Mix


After mixing:
IMG_1761.JPG
After mixing


After last turn (steps 7-12):
IMG_1774.JPG
After final turn


Preshaped and waiting for shaping:
IMG_1777.JPG
Preshaped and resting


Shaped:
IMG_1778.JPG
Shaped (not so well)


Scored and ready for baking:
IMG_1783.JPG
Scored


Baked and ready to eat:
IMG_1787.JPG
Baked!


IMG_1794.JPG
Delicious...


I'll add some more pictures once today's batch is done.

More Notes:
This is a pretty wet dough. It will stick to everything at the beginning. It will also not really hold its shape well. But by the end, it should be tacky (so it sticks to stuff, but comes off easy), and should be able to hold itself up without spreading out too much. It may be wise to try with something like 65% water at first -- that'll make it easier.

If you don't want to deal with percentages, here are the weights I used for today's batch:
172g White Whole What Flour
689g All Purpose Flour
620g Water (I actually added some, so it's probably more like 640)
17.2g Salt
1.6g Instant Yeast

To calculate the numbers for an arbitrary mass of dough, here is the process. Divide the total mass of dough by the total percent (174%) in this case. This is your total flour mass. All the other numbers are just a percentage of this mass. For today, my total mass is 1500g. 1500/174% is 861, so there are 861g of flour in total. 861*20% is 172, so that's how much wheat flour I'm using. The calculations are the same for the rest of them.

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sardia
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Re: Who likes BREAD?

Postby sardia » Mon Feb 13, 2017 6:14 pm UTC

Has anyone tried ancient grain bread? I tried it, and it tastes like a scam. Aka over priced regular bread.

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Re: Who likes BREAD?

Postby freezeblade » Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:02 pm UTC

sardia wrote:Has anyone tried ancient grain bread? I tried it, and it tastes like a scam. Aka over priced regular bread.


"Ancient grains" are in vogue at the moment (at least here), with bakeries like Tartine pushing them heavily. And as such, are getting expensive as a fad. I like using certain ancient grains as small percentages of a country bread, such as a pain a champagne, around 10-20% of the total flour weight, the rest being typical wheat flour, some of the grains have great unique flavor. Some that I have worked with:

Teff: Very absorbent (increase water a few % in recipe) Nice nutty flavor. My guess is that Teff will become the new quinoa, expect it to pop up as a hot/cold cereal grain in many of the places that quinoa did.

Spelt: I love spelt, it still has gluten-like proteins, and can be used for a large percentage of flour (up to 100% !)and still rise well. Available in white and whole grain around here, but the white is harder to come by. Makes great tinned German-style breads, English muffins, or "flat-ish" breads like ciabatta.

Kamut: Treat exactly like wheat flour, more like a variety of wheat (like durum) than a totally different grain.

Farro/emmer: Treat like low-gluten wheat flour, great for pastries/quickbreads or other baked goods that don't require well-developed gluten structures.

Millet: I have only used it whole in some bread additions, as suggested in Tartine's 3rd book. I found it didn't bring much to the bread, flavor-wise.
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Re: Who likes BREAD?

Postby Liri » Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:59 pm UTC

My dad gave a Darwin Day talk yesterday and someone brought in gingerbread made using the recipe his wife/cousin Emma used! It was probably the best gingerbread I've ever had.
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sardia
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Re: Who likes BREAD?

Postby sardia » Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:10 pm UTC

freezeblade wrote:
sardia wrote:Has anyone tried ancient grain bread? I tried it, and it tastes like a scam. Aka over priced regular bread.


"Ancient grains" are in vogue at the moment (at least here), with bakeries like Tartine pushing them heavily. And as such, are getting expensive as a fad. I like using certain ancient grains as small percentages of a country bread, such as a pain a champagne, around 10-20% of the total flour weight, the rest being typical wheat flour, some of the grains have great unique flavor. Some that I have worked with:

Teff: Very absorbent (increase water a few % in recipe) Nice nutty flavor. My guess is that Teff will become the new quinoa, expect it to pop up as a hot/cold cereal grain in many of the places that quinoa did.

Spelt: I love spelt, it still has gluten-like proteins, and can be used for a large percentage of flour (up to 100% !)and still rise well. Available in white and whole grain around here, but the white is harder to come by. Makes great tinned German-style breads, English muffins, or "flat-ish" breads like ciabatta.

Kamut: Treat exactly like wheat flour, more like a variety of wheat (like durum) than a totally different grain.

Farro/emmer: Treat like low-gluten wheat flour, great for pastries/quickbreads or other baked goods that don't require well-developed gluten structures.

Millet: I have only used it whole in some bread additions, as suggested in Tartine's 3rd book. I found it didn't bring much to the bread, flavor-wise.

I just picked up a loaf from the store. Are you saying you bought the flour itself and mixed multiple grains together to bake?

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Re: Who likes BREAD?

Postby freezeblade » Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:15 pm UTC

sardia wrote:I just picked up a loaf from the store. Are you saying you bought the flour itself and mixed multiple grains together to bake?


Correct. I don't really buy bread very often anymore, cheaper to bake it myself, and I get exactly what I want! Good bread from a local bakery can be upwards of $5 a loaf, when I make it at home, it costs about $0.50 in materials, unless it's packed with butter, or other more expensive ingredients. Even then it lands below $2.
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Re: Who likes BREAD?

Postby pogrmman » Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:25 pm UTC

freezeblade wrote:
sardia wrote:I just picked up a loaf from the store. Are you saying you bought the flour itself and mixed multiple grains together to bake?


Correct. I don't really buy bread very often anymore, cheaper to bake it myself, and I get exactly what I want! Good bread from a local bakery can be upwards of $5 a loaf, when I make it at home, it costs about $0.50 in materials, unless it's packed with butter, or other more expensive ingredients. Even then it lands below $2.


That's one reason I like making my bread. Also, the fact that it tastes better than anything I can get locally. Even if I'm using King Arthur flour that goes for about $1 per pound (which is more expensive than most of the other flours I can get around here), it comes out to a total cost of around $0.70 per loaf. Even if I use milk and oil and herbs, it's only like $1 per loaf.

Am I willing to spend that much on something that tastes better than what I can get for more money, is fun to make, and is a good excuse to hang out with friends? Of course!

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Re: Who likes BREAD?

Postby KnightExemplar » Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:08 pm UTC

Its not even about cost for me. Its about taste. Fresh-cooked bread tastes so much better than store-bought bread. There's nothing that tastes quite as good as oven-fresh bread.

Another advantage: the various "breads" are an excellent "sink" for various kitchen ingredients. Your base is (leavening: either baking powder or yeast) + Flour. If you got spare Yogurt, make biscuits. If you got spare Pesto, bake it in. If you don't got spare anything, just make white bread. With some thought, you can clear out your pantry by simply mixing your less commonly used ingredients with the "bread base".
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freezeblade
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Re: Who likes BREAD?

Postby freezeblade » Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:58 pm UTC

KnightExemplar wrote:Another advantage: the various "breads" are an excellent "sink" for various kitchen ingredients. Your base is (leavening: either baking powder or yeast) + Flour. If you got spare Yogurt, make biscuits. If you got spare Pesto, bake it in. If you don't got spare anything, just make white bread. With some thought, you can clear out your pantry by simply mixing your less commonly used ingredients with the "bread base".


I love this aspect of bread baking. Extra citrus that need to be used? zest them for wonderful sweet breakfast toast bread. made chicken stock recently? skim the schmaltz on top to put into a multi-grain harvest bread. Extra oatmeal left over from the morning? toss 'em in! Eggs nearing the end of life in the fridge? eggy challah! etc.

For veggies and meat scraps, I use pizza for the same purpose.
Belial wrote:I am not even in the same country code as "the mood for this shit."

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PAstrychef
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Re: Who likes BREAD?

Postby PAstrychef » Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:41 pm UTC

Just put a loaf of Dakota bread in the oven. It uses multi grain cereal mix so you don't need to fill the oantry with bits of odd flours going rancid and breeding moths.
Don’t become a well-rounded person. Well rounded people are smooth and dull. Become a thoroughly spiky person. Grow spikes from every angle. Stick in their throats like a puffer fish.

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Re: Who likes BREAD?

Postby Wednesday » Thu Mar 16, 2017 6:33 am UTC

Whoa hey Freezeblade, you're where I am. I'd love to pick your brain sometime about the local bread and what makes starters here more interesting - I only experimented with homemade sourdough (with mostly meh results - meh flavor, meh crumb, excellent crust) with local yeast starter when I lived in Boston, and I'm super curious about what in particular makes the west coast so tasty, now that I'm here.

Edit to add that I was just checking back in on this, and have walked away with at least a recipe for starter and one for tasty rustic quickbread, so I'm already delighted. Oh, fora, never stop providing, please.
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freezeblade
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Re: Who likes BREAD?

Postby freezeblade » Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:20 pm UTC

I'm of the mind that the location only matters a little, and that it's really in how you maintain the starter (what kind of flour, how often you feed it, what hydration, etc.). The concept of how starters change when they move is a very contentious subject.

Shoot me a PM and I can answer any questions you've got the best I can. If you'd like a chunk of my starter, I can provide it as well, it's at least 20 years old, got it from a one-legged, red headed, irish, homebrewer friend of the family about 10 years ago, and has never failed me!
Belial wrote:I am not even in the same country code as "the mood for this shit."


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