0223: "Valentine's Day"

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Postby dr7 » Wed Feb 14, 2007 5:44 pm UTC

Wanna know why I hate v-day? Commercial exploitation of a basic human emotion.

Wanna give your love cards and chocolates? Do it on some random day, not a day set aside by rich, greedy corporations where they can count on getting rich during a slow time of the year for such things.

Celebrate love every day, not just when you're told to.
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Postby Lani » Wed Feb 14, 2007 5:50 pm UTC

This is what everyone says. But again, how often do you really give each other flowers or small gifts? It's easy to fall into the habit of taking each other for granted. Having the reminder to appreciate your loved ones - like Mother's or Father's Day - isn't a bad thing, and it's up to you how you chose to celebrate it. Use the day to go hiking and watch the sunset if you want; you don't have to buy the sugary crap.
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Postby Iluvatar » Wed Feb 14, 2007 6:10 pm UTC

I'm curious: from whence is it determined that Valentine's day is to product of commercialism? Wikipedia says:

"The day became associated with romantic love in the High Middle Ages, when the tradition of courtly love flourished."
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Postby dr7 » Wed Feb 14, 2007 6:15 pm UTC

May have had more noble beginnings but today it's a commercialized holiday devoid of real meaning.

Society loves to trivialize such things (see also Mother's Day) and turn them into a time for profit. It sickens me. Seriously.
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Postby Xane » Wed Feb 14, 2007 6:29 pm UTC

Valentine's Day: The reason so many people are born in November
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Postby TheTankengine » Wed Feb 14, 2007 6:34 pm UTC

Valentine's day '05:boring
Valentine's day '06:incredible, filled with undying love and happiness
Valentine's day '07:she's in the arms of some shaved-head douchebag, pass
Valentine's day '08:could be the best to come
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Postby Iluvatar » Wed Feb 14, 2007 6:37 pm UTC

Society loves to trivialize such things (see also Mother's Day) and turn them into a time for profit. It sickens me. Seriously.

Grrr... evil corporations.

You do realize that companies exist for the express purpose of making money, right? People want heart shaped boxes of chocolate, pink teddy bears, and cards. Therefore, companies that are good at making money produce these things. Companies that are good at making money will then try to convince people that they need more of whatever their selling.

What's so sickening about that? It's the profit motive; it's what drives our economic system.

Companies are not there to give meaning to holidays. They're there to produce what they think you'll buy. If Valentine's day is trivial and devoid of meaning for you, it's your own fault.
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Postby Belial » Wed Feb 14, 2007 6:39 pm UTC

What's so sickening about that? It's the profit motive; it's what drives our economic system.


Yeah, that would be the sickening part. I don't terribly *like* our economic system....

That said....

Companies are not there to give meaning to holidays. They're there to produce what they think you'll buy. If Valentine's day is trivial and devoid of meaning for you, it's your own fault.


*That* is very true.
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Postby Pathway » Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:48 pm UTC

naitram wrote:I believe you're making the assumption that love is a prerequisite for procreation.

Last I checked it wasn't.

Could be an interesting world if that were the case though.


Yeah, lust works fine as well... trust me.

edit: well, not me in particular.
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Postby dr7 » Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:15 pm UTC

Iluvatar wrote:What's so sickening about that? It's the profit motive; it's what drives our economic system.

Companies are not there to give meaning to holidays. They're there to produce what they think you'll buy. If Valentine's day is trivial and devoid of meaning for you, it's your own fault.


As I said, they're trivializing a basic human emotion to sell their products at a time when they don't sell much. It's a terrible, irresponsible way to make a quick profit, especially since it's basically emotional blackmail.

And VD* is trivial and devoid of meaning anyway. It's not my fault that society is so shallow that we have to set aside one day to celebrate something that should be celebrated every single day of our lives. Not my fault that people can't understand that.

* And yes, I love shortening the holiday to VD. Doesn't sound as appealing when you refer to it the same way you refer to venereal disease, does it?
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Postby Lani » Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:21 pm UTC

dr7 wrote:It's not my fault that society is so shallow that we have to set aside one day to celebrate something that should be celebrated every single day of our lives.


Yes, it should be celebrated every day. And we should exercise at least three times a week, and eat a healthy balanced low fat diet with lots of vegetables, get 8 hours of sleep a night, stay up to date on local, regional, national, and international politics, and a number of other things.

And do we? Hardly any. A little reminder won't kill you.
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Postby Belial » Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:23 pm UTC

And VD* is trivial and devoid of meaning anyway. It's not my fault that society is so shallow that we have to set aside one day to celebrate something that should be celebrated every single day of our lives. Not my fault that people can't understand that.


Do you tell your friends, every time you talk to them, how much they mean to you, and how much you value their friendship? Buy them small gifts? Do things for them to let them know you care?

No? In fact, you pretty much just assume they know, and hang out with them normally unless something really makes you sit up and take notice?

Chances are, it's the same story for your girlfriend/boyfriend/genderqueer-significant-other. There's nothing wrong with having a time to sit up and take notice of how much someone means to you and go to some length to tell them so and perhaps demonstrate.

Yes, it can and should happen at other times. But having a day that is its *own* occasion to do so doesn't hurt.

This gives me an idea, though. There should totally be a "Friend Day"
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Postby Belial » Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:32 pm UTC

And if the arbitraryness gets you down (why this day and not some other day? It's trivial and insignificant! There's no reason for it! Arbitraryness is bad! Crisis! AHHH!), just remember that nearly everything humans do is arbitrary.

Why, for example, does the word "chair" mean the piece of furniture you sit on? Simple. It's the word we decided to use. It's different enough from the other words in our language structure that it doesn't get confused. And because *something* had to mean that.

Why are we celebrating love and such on February 14th? Because that was the day that got chosen. To separate the designated celebration from the other 364 days in the year. It doesn't have to be deeper than that.
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Postby dr7 » Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:40 pm UTC

Belial wrote:And if the arbitraryness gets you down (why this day and not some other day? It's trivial and insignificant! There's no reason for it! Arbitraryness is bad! Crisis! AHHH!), just remember that nearly everything humans do is arbitrary.


How true that is.

I just see many things as even more arbitrary and useless than others. VD seems to take away the uniqueness and the things that make love special, and homogenizes them into a single "Day O' Love" where everybody gets together and does the same thing. It trivializes the whole thing. Same could be said for many things though, I'm sure.

Doesn't make it right.
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Postby Belial » Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:47 pm UTC

That's kindof like saying that birthdays trivialize your friends into a single "Day O' Appreciating this Dude". That's really only true if you let it happen.
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Postby dr7 » Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:45 pm UTC

Belial wrote:That's kindof like saying that birthdays trivialize your friends into a single "Day O' Appreciating this Dude". That's really only true if you let it happen.


Oddly enough, I don't let it happen. :)
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Postby Traisenau » Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:48 pm UTC

There are two reasons which I like V-day, first, it's an excuse to get free candy from all of my friends. Secondly, it allows me to tell people, "Enjoy your VD", and laugh as they figure it out.
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Postby William the girl » Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:13 pm UTC

I have no problem with Valentine's day per se (although that said, this one didn't go well... but anyway), I think the issue is when people take each other for granted, then think, "Oh, it's VD, better buy him/her chocolates/flowers/whatever", and then the next day it's just back to how it always was.
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Postby Andrew » Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:28 pm UTC

Things you don't want to say on Valentine's:
William the girl wrote:Oh, it's VD

...Just what I wanted to get.
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Postby Peshmerga » Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:46 pm UTC

Venereal Disease day!
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Postby LSK » Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:59 pm UTC

As much as I hate V-day, it was as good as an excuse as any to slip a note into a girlfriend's locker.
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Postby Aoeniac » Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:01 pm UTC

I love commercialism.
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Postby liquidplasmaflow » Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:20 pm UTC

I celebrate Single Awareness Day today.
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Postby Toeofdoom » Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:24 pm UTC

dr7 wrote:
Belial wrote:That's kindof like saying that birthdays trivialize your friends into a single "Day O' Appreciating this Dude". That's really only true if you let it happen.


Oddly enough, I don't let it happen. :)


Birthday = excuse to have a party where you do whatever you mainly like to do a partys. Me and my and 2 of my friends dont even bother with presents, cause giving each other money when your birthdays are 2 weeks apart is pretty pointless really :p
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Postby Ronfar » Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:29 pm UTC

Saladin wrote:... You realise that love is not a physical, spendable resource, right?


[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tsz0VST1N48]But I can give you eight percent of my love
Eight percent of my love
Eight hundredths of the time
You're the only girl I'm dreaming of, yeah yeah yeah
Eight percent of my heart
Eight percent of my soul
Just point-oh-eight, but girl, you're great
You're the only one that makes me whole[/url]
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Postby atalanta » Thu Feb 15, 2007 4:57 am UTC

Hahaha! Nice, love those lyrics. :D

VD seems to take away the uniqueness and the things that make love special, and homogenizes them into a single "Day O' Love" where everybody gets together and does the same thing.


Who says we all do the same thing? :)

Interesting that VD should evoke all these passionate responses. Sure, the card companies want you to buy stuff. No, you don't have to. Other than that, who cares? I like chocolate and flowers, and like giving them to my friends; VD is just another excuse to do so. The reason people people do it is (hopefully) not just because of some vile pressure for conformity, but becuase it's fun. So, go have fun! Or ignore it, whatever. But the hate seems kind of pointless. (shrug)
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Postby Iluvatar » Thu Feb 15, 2007 5:08 am UTC

dr7 wrote:As I said, they're trivializing a basic human emotion to sell their products at a time when they don't sell much. It's a terrible, irresponsible way to make a quick profit, especially since it's basically emotional blackmail.
How is that irresponsible? They're companies. They're there to make money. It's what they do. If they didn't make profit, they would cease to exist.

I would argue that you are being irresponsible by playing off you're employer's need for a worker. It's fundamental to your employer's nature to need an employee to run his business, and you're exploiting that for your own capital gains.
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Postby dr7 » Thu Feb 15, 2007 10:06 am UTC

Iluvatar wrote:How is that irresponsible? They're companies. They're there to make money. It's what they do. If they didn't make profit, they would cease to exist.


Profit from simply selling a product that meets a genuine demand is fine. When you have an artificial demand driven by a holiday that our society has manipulated its people into following because of emotional blackmail to benefit said companies, it's a terrible, unethical way to make money.

Not sure how to restate that in a way to make you understand how I view it. It's part of my world view that I sometimes have difficulty communicating to people, since I suppose others don't see the world in the same way I do. Guess that's why there is so much disagreement in the world.

I would argue that you are being irresponsible by playing off you're employer's need for a worker. It's fundamental to your employer's nature to need an employee to run his business, and you're exploiting that for your own capital gains.


An employer chose to run a business for his benefit, and chose to employ workers also for his benefit. With VD, there is a choice, but going against the expected norm is quite a social faux pas and therefore is socially expected of you to conform to. In this case, the benefit is practically non-existent (besides being in good graces with your loved ones). In other words, there is no conscious choice made on behalf of the person, and is forced into this situation. It is an arbitrary decision made for you by those who created and perpetuate this day where love becomes a packaged and homogeneous event in which we are expected to conform to, instead of allowing love to become the beautiful, wild, untamed chaotic creature that it truly is.
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Postby ohki » Thu Feb 15, 2007 12:21 pm UTC

I would just like to remind everyone that today, Febuary 15th is National Half-Off Chocolates Day.

Celebrate by traveling to your local pharmacy and/or supermarket and buying large quantities of discounted candy for you consuming pleasure.

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Postby Verysillyman » Thu Feb 15, 2007 1:28 pm UTC

ohki wrote:I would just like to remind everyone that today, Febuary 15th is National Half-Off Chocolates Day.


Fuck. I missed it here. Maybe there'll still be excess when i wake in the morn.
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Postby Hix » Thu Feb 15, 2007 3:19 pm UTC

Verysillyman wrote:
ohki wrote:I would just like to remind everyone that today, Febuary 15th is National Half-Off Chocolates Day.


Fuck. I missed it here. Maybe there'll still be excess when i wake in the morn.
This is a dilemma every year for me. Should I get my candy on the 15th, or wait until the 16th (a.k.a. National 75% Off Chocolates Day), hoping that there's still some remaining.
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Postby LE4dGOLEM » Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:09 pm UTC

Hix wrote:
Verysillyman wrote:
ohki wrote:I would just like to remind everyone that today, Febuary 15th is National Half-Off Chocolates Day.


Fuck. I missed it here. Maybe there'll still be excess when i wake in the morn.
This is a dilemma every year for me. Should I get my candy on the 15th, or wait until the 16th (a.k.a. National 75% Off Chocolates Day), hoping that there's still some remaining.


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Postby Iluvatar » Fri Feb 16, 2007 12:02 am UTC

dr7 wrote:An employer chose to run a business for his benefit, and chose to employ workers also for his benefit. With VD, there is a choice, but going against the expected norm is quite a social faux pas and therefore is socially expected of you to conform to. In this case, the benefit is practically non-existent (besides being in good graces with your loved ones). In other words, there is no conscious choice made on behalf of the person, and is forced into this situation.
Consider the implications of such a line of reasoning. It's a social faux pas for me to run around naked, even in situations were the weather would otherwise permit. Are clothing companies exploiting the social norm that requires we cover our sexual bits?

The only person who stands to expect something or other from you is your significant other. If the two people in a relationship are honestly ok with not commemorating Valintines day, most will. I don't honestly care whether my friend gets his girlfriend something for VD; only he and his girlfriend do. It's not society's fault that you are expected to do something; it's purely your SO's. And if you want to hate every company that profits off an expectation, then you are in for a lotta hate ( your family expects you to feed them, your friends expect birthday gifts, your IT department expects you to have virus software, your fiance expects you to pay for a wedding, etc).
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Postby Shro » Fri Feb 16, 2007 12:41 am UTC

How about a cute story for a change?

This Valentine's Day, my boyfriend bought me a domain name, it was my first name. com, he set me up with word press, a s/ftp server and shell access to his server. I told him he had root access to my heart.

We had previously agreed not to get anything on Valentine's Day, because we really didn't want to celebrate it, but you know what? It was cute. I didn't hate Valentine's Day when I was single either. It was just a time where I got to eat a lot of candy. Asking why we celebrate Valentine's Day is like asking why we celebrate Halloween.

I knew that my bf was going to buy me the site a couple of days in advance. It would have been just as cute on any other day. It's just nice to take a day out of the same old same old, and just be cute and silly. I'm not exactly the time who would gush over my bf, but Valentine's Day is a day where it makes it okay.
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Postby roaikgid » Fri Feb 16, 2007 1:35 am UTC

the problem with v day is not that it is commercialized, because that's easy enough to ignore. The problem is that while the original goal of it may have been to have a day where people express their love for eachother, in reality it often just provides another way for people to screw things up.
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Postby aldimond » Fri Feb 16, 2007 1:41 am UTC

I think we need to have a little matrix:

Code: Select all
              single   taken
             +--------------+
v-day haters |       |      |
             +-------+------+
non-haters   |       |      |
             +-------+------+


EDIT: If you try to :q in vim with text selected in a visual mode it gives the error "no range allowed"... and the idea of :q applied to a range cracks me up. "I'd like to quit from these five lines." HAH!
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Postby Toeofdoom » Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:05 am UTC

middle left for me :p
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Postby dr7 » Fri Feb 16, 2007 6:08 am UTC

Obviously

Code: Select all
              single   taken
             +--------------+
v-day haters |  all  |  0   |
             +-------+------+
non-haters   |   0   | all  |
             +-------+------+


plus or minus a few oddballs.
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Postby Daem0hn » Fri Feb 16, 2007 6:56 am UTC

make that

Code: Select all
              single   taken
             +--------------+
v-day haters | all-1 |  1   |
             +-------+------+
non-haters   |   0   | all  |
             +-------+------+


what can i say, i'm an 'oddball'.

valentines day is too commercial, just like christmas (yeah i'm sour about christmas as well, 5 years in retail getting abused does that to ppl).
Valentines day is too complicated, girls want too much and are never happy with the effort that you put into it for them, because their expectations are hyped up and inflated by the media portrayal of what we should do.

This is all coming from my experiences (which i admit being 19 and only having had 3 girlfriends over valentines is limited). I'm sure there are some genuinely good girls out there who would be a reason not to hate valentines, but for the moment, i've not found any :(
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Postby Toeofdoom » Fri Feb 16, 2007 8:13 am UTC

I know my friend and his girlfriend hate valentines day (who, as you may guess are in the taken category)

so its not as obvious as you might think... and someone else mentioned that it was great being single on valentines day (cant remember why)
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