Perido Street Station, for example, Weaver -
Mieville is a crazy person. These books are amazing. I've read Embassytown and am almost done with PSS.
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This I totally see and agree with.natraj wrote:in love with the Total Edginess of himself
This I don't really understand. I'm not even sure race beyond actual factual races (i.e., arrekai or vodynoi or khepri, not like asian or african or whatnot) has been part of his stories?natraj wrote:eye rolly whiteboy
The Great Hippo wrote:Nuclear bombs are like potato chips, you can't stop after just *one*
I... Man, I have to say, I feel like this is a deliberate misinterpretation of what is actually present in the novel, but if that's your take away, I can't really argue with your view.Kewangji wrote:The ending isn't
right, I know that, but that's not really a feature of either Embassytown or PSS? Between the two novels, the only character I can name that was raped was Yag's victim.Kewangji wrote:EDIT: also, having all the interesting female characters be raped and abused is definitely a whiteboy fantasy thing. Pretty sure there's a shock-full TVTropes page about it.
There were a few places in the book where I remember thinking 'Ok this is where he found a word he likes in the thesaurus', but frankly, that's something that bugs me in every book I read. The Demon Cycle Saga at one point in the second or third book used the word 'succor' a dozen times in a couple of chapters. I think what it comes down to is every author ultimately has a style, and it works or it doesn't, and like all art forms, you have to decide if the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Mieville is guilty of some obnoxious writing quirks, like obsessively fixating on filth and decay, but I'm genuinely not seeing yours or natrajs complaints about race and rape in what I've read so far.Kewangji wrote:I remember wanting to stick a pen through every page that had the word 'desultory' in it
Ah, sorry. I thought this:Izawwlgood wrote:↶
right, I know that, but that's not really a feature of either Embassytown or PSS? Between the two novels, the only character I can name that was raped was Yag's victim.
Well, I haven't noticed that as a pattern across 'whiteboy fantasy writers', but like I said, it's more than possible I'm just not seeing it.
The Great Hippo wrote:Nuclear bombs are like potato chips, you can't stop after just *one*
Ah, so, that's why I don't/didn't understand the criticism of 'its a commentary on how rape victims are hard to deal with'? That is genuinely not a theme I'm seeing in Yag's storyarc - Yag is the rapist, not the raped, in case you forgot? If anything, I think it was bordering dangerously on justice porn, this notion of eye for an eye defilement and destruction of the rapists body in a manner that bordered an almost obnoxious circle of contrition. Yes, we get it, Yag is and feels guilty, and cannot escape his punishment which he deserves and accepts and agrees with, and that is why he's a fitting addition to New Crobuzon... It felt a little too inhuman, too wrapped up in it's own pomp.Kewangji wrote:Yes, I'm talking about Yag's arc.
I'd say the Slake Moths were more along the lines of 'mind consumption' than 'mind rape', in the same way that I think, say, the Remade aren't being raped.Kewangji wrote:apart from all the mindrape
Ah, nono. I didn't see it as being prevalent in Mieville's writing.Kewangji wrote:meant that you questioned the trope's prevalence among white male writers at all. My bad.
For sure - while the book was definitely long, I liked the pacing and the narrative. I love the way scattered unrelated stories fit together, and how each little vignette was a look into the weird city of New Crobuzon, and how everyone was affected by the accidents of one another. I can totally understand how it doesn't work for some - similarly, in Children of Hurinn, when the same sword was renamed four times in a single paragraph, I can understand how some people would find that epic, where I found it obnoxious.Kewangji wrote:My biggest gripe with the book is still that it wasn't a story. Hardly even a yarn. Also, as such, it was too long. You're totally right that style is subjective and all that -- and if it works for you, that's great.
One thing I credit Mieville with is changing his writing style to convey different things. The dreamshit episode was a frenzy, the Weaver evokes the sense of a childish babble, etc.Kewangji wrote:The psychedlikaleidoscope of another person's whole life in drug form was cool.
Similarly, I thought the description of the farseer to be pretty cool (the lady who helps Derkhan contact the editor of the magazine).Kewangji wrote:The act of, well, empathy gets turned on its head, which is quite powerful
Yes, I know that about Yag. It's the moment near the end where the protagonist understands that the crime was rape that, particularly, didn't sit right with me. Felt like a bullshit thing to end on, and like, well -- another facet of the idea that ... unchecked empathy is bad. But in a false way? I don't know, it was a long time ago.Izawwlgood wrote:↶Ah, so, that's why I don't/didn't understand the criticism of 'its a commentary on how rape victims are hard to deal with'? That is genuinely not a theme I'm seeing in Yag's storyarc - Yag is the rapist, not the raped, in case you forgot? If anything, I think it was bordering dangerously on justice porn, this notion of eye for an eye defilement and destruction of the rapists body in a manner that bordered an almost obnoxious circle of contrition. Yes, we get it, Yag is and feels guilty, and cannot escape his punishment which he deserves and accepts and agrees with, and that is why he's a fitting addition to New Crobuzon... It felt a little too inhuman, too wrapped up in it's own pomp.Kewangji wrote:Yes, I'm talking about Yag's arc.
Fair way to interpret it. Are the Remade part of the book also or is it some other scifi/new weird thing I'm supposed to know about?Izawwlgood wrote:I'd say the Slake Moths were more along the lines of 'mind consumption' than 'mind rape', in the same way that I think, say, the Remade aren't being raped.
An infidel heteroglossia, yeah. Many-voicedness is nice; I don't remember being particularly impressed by Miéville's, but I'm sure your assessment here is right. Currently I'm relishing the language in Cloud Atlas, where the author switches between different styles in a similar but distinct fashion. Most authors do this, I think, but to less extreme degrees?Izawwlgood wrote:One thing I credit Mieville with is changing his writing style to convey different things. The dreamshit episode was a frenzy, the Weaver evokes the sense of a childish babble, etc.Kewangji wrote:The psychedlikaleidoscope of another person's whole life in drug form was cool.
The Great Hippo wrote:Nuclear bombs are like potato chips, you can't stop after just *one*
There are a fair bit of hints describing what's going with them, including a meeting with the college professor who is a 'bio-thaumaturge' and later does some Remade-lite magic on Isaac. I dunno, I think it was pretty easy to connect the dots that they're just humans who have been shaped by magic and/or technology, and have sort of created their own society as a function of being somewhat Outcasts.Kewangji wrote:Fair way to interpret it. Are the Remade part of the book also or is it some other scifi/new weird thing I'm supposed to know about?
Yeah, for sure, some certainly do, but there are a lot of authors who cannot, in the slightest, and it shows glaringly through their writing.Kewangji wrote:Most authors do this, I think, but to less extreme degrees?
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