Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

[Liri]

Sweet Josie Brown from Lonerider is one of my absolute favorites. I dunno if you can find it outside NC though. Same with Downtown Brown from Lost Coast (the smell is incredible). You can definitely find Rogue's Hazelnut Brown Nectar wherever you are.

I had the same experience, where sweeter dark beers were the first I really *liked*. My taste had expanded since then but they're usually my favorites.

There was this one-time beer from an Australian (I think) brewery that haunts me to this day. It was a perfectly fruity ale with "African herbs" and hops and it was so so so so so so gooooood. I haven't even been able to find the brewery since.

[Bakemaster]

Had some Three Philosophers over the weekend and suddenly recalled why I haven't had Three Philosophers again since I first tried in, oh, let's say 2008.

Just makes me think, is this what some people really want in a beer? And why? Actually, it reminds me just a little bit of port, which I don't like either.

[Carlington]

I looked at this thread and it made me feel like I should try beer again. Historically, I haven't liked beer at all and will avoid drinking it unless it's free. I have had and enjoyed marginally more a darker ale in the past, so I thought maybe I'd give darker beers a shot. I'm currently slugging my way through a beer from a Californian outfit, the Belching Beaver Brewery: their Peanut Butter Milk Stout.
Its...something. Vastly more tolerable than most beers, definitely has the promised notes of coffee and chocolate and peanut butter. The can claims a "silky smooth mouth feel", where I'd categorise it as more like "oily". It's still deeply bitter though, and makes me very very burpy.

It's not bitterness of itself that I dislike - I'm a fan of coffee, never with sugar, darker roasts and fruitier beans preferred. It seems to just be the particular taste of hops that I take exception to. When people describe it as an acquired taste, how acquired is it? Coffee is an acquired taste but I fairly rapidly progressed from "this nauseates me" to "this fuels me". I don't really want beer to fuel me, but I feel a bit of social pressure to like beer - also, Ciders and spirits tend to be more expensive, so drinking would be easier on the wallet. What can I do?

[Liri]

Yeah, hops are the big hurdle. And I definitely agree about the "oily" feel for a lot of stouts - mainly an issue with 'imperial', high ABV types. The higher ABV in IPAs comes from the desire to make all the extra hops they put in to preserve the beer on its trip to India bearable. My guess is it's easy for microbrewers starting out to make IPAs.

I might get some heckling, but Sam Adams Boston Lager is a pretty darn good beer with plenty of solid flavor, and not too hoppy. If you want to try a beer that doesn't taste like a beer, Samuel Smith's Chocolate Stout has been mentioned a few times here and is quite something. Not cheap enough for social drinking mind you. But, there's a very full range between those two suggestions.

[freezeblade]

I do disagree that cider is inherently more expensive than beer though. Sure, it's more expensive than mass market lagers, but is no more expensive than the craft beers listed throughout this thread.

You may want to look into some darker Belgian beers (or some American approximations, which are cheaper), as hopping levels of most historical Belgian beer styles is below their Euro/American counterparts.

[dubsola]

I do disagree that cider is inherently more expensive than beer though. Sure, it's more expensive than mass market lagers, but is no more expensive than the craft beers listed throughout this thread.

You may want to look into some darker Belgian beers (or some American approximations, which are cheaper), as hopping levels of most historical Belgian beer styles is below their Euro/American counterparts.

With cider, depends where you are and what you like. It can be pricey! I've seen bottles of French cider going for $20-$30 AUD. Not even 1 litres!

But I second the recommendation of the Belgian stuff. There are some quite chocolatey dubbels with very low hops flavour profiles.

When people describe it as an acquired taste, how acquired is it?

If you're truly up for a bit of discomfort I would say a few beers should sort you out. When I was younger I HATED beer, I really wanted to like it but couldn't drink more than a few mouthfuls of shitty lager. Now I can drink anything.

[PeteP]

Define a few beer? Based on my memories of drinking beer for social reason at a liter or so it goes from disgusting to undrinkable for me which with the 0.33 bottles common here counts as three I guess. (I don't know whether it is like that for other people disliking beer, but for me the beer the unpleasantness of beer is self reinforcing - it gets worse the more I consume. ) Though it has been a long time since I did more than taste the beer of others.

[Liri]

I went through a case of PBR when I was 19 or 20. After thinking, "dang, this is like slightly bitter, not very flavorful soda," I wanted to try other beers. And Lo, I liked them.

Also alcohol, especially beer and cider, is stupid expensive in Australia. An Australian gave me the reasoning that, "oh, but we buy it by the case so it's not as much" as if the rest of the world doesn't do the same thing.

[freezeblade]

That makes me wonder, what's everyone pay for a standard six pack of "craft" beer/cider near them?

Standard "craft beer" is $7-10 depending on the location here, imports from the UK and Europe are around $12-14
That said, a pint (actually 12-14oz there's no standard) at a pub here is likely $6-7, $8 if you're across the bay in San Fransisco.

Recent tasty beer: Duvel Green (on tap). Interesting how different it is than the bottle-conditioned version.

[Liri]

Recent tasty beer: Duvel Green (on tap). Interesting how different it is than the bottle-conditioned version.

Nice!

I try not to pay more than $11 for a 6-pack, but there are some fancier ones that get up to 12-14. I've noticed that some micro/craft brewers have started making 4-packs a lot more common to disguise their higher prices per bottle.

In Sydney, the cheapest 6 pack, VB, was $14 AUD, which at the time was about $13 USD. Sam Adams was something like $18. Sierra Nevada was at least $21.

[slinches]

About the same as Freezeblade here in AZ. Six packs are $7 - $10 and 12 packs for $12-$18 or so. A pint at most bars are about $5-$7, though there are some that run $8-$9 in the ritzier areas.

[dubsola]

In Sydney, the cheapest 6 pack, VB, was $14 AUD, which at the time was about $13 USD. Sam Adams was something like $18. Sierra Nevada was at least $21.

This is about right for Australia. A craft beer six pack from an Australian brewery will be about $15USD. A sixer from a large American brewery like Sierra Nevada is about the same, whereas one from a smaller brewery (say a sixpack of Moose Drool) will be more like $20USD. A 40oz bottle of a big hoppy IPA or stout will be at least $8USD, and can run up to $15USD.

Alcohol is taxed highly, imported ingredients have to come a long way, wages are high and cold distribution is expensive. So we pay a lot for beer. Fortunately it's delicious.

--------

In other news, here's the 'best' Australian beers of 2016. This is a yearly poll run by GABS, an Australian craft beer festival.

[ahammel]

In Sydney, the cheapest 6 pack, VB, was $14 AUD, which at the time was about $13 USD. Sam Adams was something like $18. Sierra Nevada was at least $21.

This is about right for Australia. A craft beer six pack from an Australian brewery will be about $15USD. A sixer from a large American brewery like Sierra Nevada is about the same, whereas one from a smaller brewery (say a sixpack of Moose Drool) will be more like $20USD. A 40oz bottle of a big hoppy IPA or stout will be at least $8USD, and can run up to $15USD.

Sounds pretty comparable to prices here in BC.

Darned sin taxes. If the idea is to disincentivize things that are bad for my health, why is booze not taxed per unit ethanol? That 20 year old scotch isn't going to make me any more of a burden to the healthcare system than the rotgut vodka. Grumble grumble...

[dubsola]

I have a vague recollection of some propaganda from the craft scene that there's evidence that having people drink craft reduces alcohol consumption. I think it was around craft beer but it really is the haziest of memories.

Makes sense though. I can't afford to drink all I'd like.

[Liri]

In Sydney, the cheapest 6 pack, VB, was $14 AUD, which at the time was about $13 USD. Sam Adams was something like $18. Sierra Nevada was at least $21.

This is about right for Australia. A craft beer six pack from an Australian brewery will be about $15USD. A sixer from a large American brewery like Sierra Nevada is about the same, whereas one from a smaller brewery (say a sixpack of Moose Drool) will be more like $20USD. A 40oz bottle of a big hoppy IPA or stout will be at least $8USD, and can run up to $15USD.

Sounds pretty comparable to prices here in BC.

Darned sin taxes. If the idea is to disincentivize things that are bad for my health, why is booze not taxed per unit ethanol? That 20 year old scotch isn't going to make me any more of a burden to the healthcare system than the rotgut vodka. Grumble grumble...

I noticed that beer prices in Aus went up with ABV, but liquors were relatively cheap. Australia has a reputation though.

They probably earned it by going ham on some cheap ale in the US while on vacation.

[dubsola]

I now know what going ham means.

And I strongly disagree that liquor is cheaper here. Exhibit A: UK - $60AUD vs AU - $100AUD

[Liri]

That's *nice* booze though. There were big bottles of cheap gin for $20 at the bottle shop I frequented.

This one.

[Nath]

I now know what going ham means.

And I strongly disagree that liquor is cheaper here. Exhibit A: UK - $60AUD vs AU - $100AUD

Yikes. That's 35 USD here (46 AUD).

[dubsola]

Yikes indeed