Diablo Mafia - Day 6 (The End)

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Sabrar
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby Sabrar » Thu Mar 02, 2017 10:01 am UTC

Gopher of Pern wrote:It's essentially turning them into a protected class, which kinda ticks me off.
From personal experience this sentiment is more indicative of scum, town should be happy that there is less space for scum to hide.

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Znirk
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby Znirk » Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:05 am UTC

Just quickly, to partially explain my claim: I have a power (not tied to the alignment) that seems more likely to be useful to town than scum. At least it means that if I side with town, I can use my power in the straightforward manner, whereas if I side with scum then I'm mainly just waiting for them to win with little opportunity to help scum or hinder town (apart from the generic option to try to confuse and mislead people).

Thus I am, for now, choice-aligned with town, and therefore I chose to make a partial claim: Public information is good for town, and the risk to myself seems manageable since presumably the main factions primarily want to get rid of each other.

Actually, let me double down on claims-that-may-help-town: My role PM explicitly offers me a false character claim. I am Red Vex (or the Red Vex, or possibly even a Red Vex; still don't exactly understand the details here), some sort of undead being out for personal revenge. However the PM implies I could claim to be my twin sister and exact lookalike, the Rogue. Maybe other roles of the more demonic persuasion have a similar offer baked in?

This also suggests to me that characters may be alignment-significant after all: As I understand the matter, mine is a former human who made a post-death deal with the demons to come back from the grave for revenge purposes. Linked to both the human and the demon world, but really doing her own thing above all. Neutral alignment. Might be a coincidence, but then, it might not.

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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby plytho » Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:23 am UTC

Gopher of Pern wrote:Plytho, I will try and clarify things for you.
Thanks for the clarification.

Gopher of Pern wrote:It's still early in the day. I'm sure scum will slip up somewhere along the line.
Does this happen often on day one?

Sabrar wrote:
Gopher of Pern wrote:It's essentially turning them into a protected class, which kinda ticks me off.
From personal experience this sentiment is more indicative of scum, town should be happy that there is less space for scum to hide.
That assumes that all early claimers are town or town friendly.

Reads list:

Sabrar
No claims
notes: very active, asking good questions: townie

LaserGuy
No claims
notes: newbie, suspicious of freezeblade in reads post: neutral

GopherofPern
No claims
notes:doesn't like early claims as a personal preference :based on some things others have said maybe slightly scummy?

Freezeblade
Claims: name not in D1 flavour or mentioned by others
notes: thinks cult is likely, calls on lurkers :neutral

Znirk
Claims: alignment: Independent, name not in D1 flavour or mentioned by others
notes: claims indie in only post so far : probably indie

ahippo
Claims: Name: Griswold the blacksmith (in D1 flavour)
notes: claims griswold to get discussion started and to provide content as a reaction to feedback from WoT2, I think this is consistent with his play in the last game: neutral

adnapemit
No claims
notes:1 post so far, nothing new: neutral

SirGabriel
No claims
notes: hasn't said much: neutral

Madge
Claims: Role: Miller, Name in D1 flavour
notes:claimed miller in only post, consensus seems to be that early miller claim is the correct play: townie

JustDanceUnlimited
No claims
notes: nothing so far: scummy?

mpolo
No claims
notes: some analysis: slightly townie

Carlington
No claims
notes: not much content yet: neutral

bessie
No claims
notes: has some good analysis : townie
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plytho
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby plytho » Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:25 am UTC

Znirk wrote: some sort of undead being out for personal revenge.
I'm wondering how your personal revenge would make you pro-town?
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby Madge » Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:23 pm UTC

It was a long, hot day today (and it's still a long hot night) so this is a quick check-in post.

Just responding to Jimbob's question:

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:@Madge, is there any flavour justification for you being a miller and appearing like a demon?


Yes.

I'm loathe to make reads on d1 in general, so don't expect me to do so or make a vote. I'd like to see how the dust settles d2.
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby Znirk » Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:42 pm UTC

plytho wrote:
Znirk wrote: some sort of undead being out for personal revenge.
I'm wondering how your personal revenge would make you pro-town?

<shrug> It doesn't, and I didn't say that it did. I said I'm neutral from alignment/role, and currently pro-town because of my power.

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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby adnapemit » Thu Mar 02, 2017 1:41 pm UTC

plytho wrote:
adnapemit wrote:'m inclined to believe her as she also claimed to be mentioned in the flavour as an attempt to make her claim stronger.


Can you (or someone else) explain why this makes her claim stronger?
I would like to emphasise my use of the word "attempt". Being in the flavour doesn't mean she isn't scum but it does limit her to 6 (named) characters and any additional claims have to match this. Her indirect claim is what makes me believe she is telling the truth more than a full claim.
Gopher of Pern wrote:At this stage, I'd be happy lynching Znirk, if no one better pops up on my scumdar. Claiming indy early on is silly. If they are a jester, let them have their win early, and if they are a survivor, it can be better to let them die now, than risk them siding with scum later on. If they are an SK they are silly for claiming.
Silly would be an understatement for a SK to claim indie at this point in the game.
I don't believe that lynching an indie is better than trying to lynch scum. If they aren't anti town then we lose a chance to lynch a threat and scum get a kill. Znirk however is currently a good lynch candidate because claiming indie early tells scum that they are not town and don't need to be a target. To me Znirk is either jester, anti-town indie or scum pretending to be indie. I would rather lynching scum than a jester.
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:14 pm UTC

plytho wrote:Reads list:
Any reason you missed me?
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby SirGabriel » Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:39 pm UTC

Sorry I haven't posted much, I was away all day yesterday, and too much happened while I was gone for me to process quickly. Hopefully I'll have time later today to reread everything and make a decent post.

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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby plytho » Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:47 pm UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:
plytho wrote:Reads list:
Any reason you missed me?


Huh. I must have accidentally deleted you, sorry about that.

jimbobmacdoodle
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby JustDanceUnlimited » Thu Mar 02, 2017 4:27 pm UTC

Hey um first time playing on this forum , I have played Mafiascum and Mafiamaniac before but this and entire different experience not knowing the roles , so im not real sure what to do , do i claim now or later ?? What do i say ?? and i dont really know Diabloe much :(

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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby dimochka » Thu Mar 02, 2017 4:41 pm UTC

JustDanceUnlimited wrote:Hey um first time playing on this forum , I have played Mafiascum and Mafiamaniac before but this and entire different experience not knowing the roles , so im not real sure what to do , do i claim now or later ?? What do i say ?? and i dont really know Diabloe much :(

If you (or anyone else) have questions regarding your role or your interactions with other roles in the video game version of Diablo, feel free to PM me and I'll gladly give you a paragraph on it. Or do you guys think it would help to post a short synopsis of the storyline in game? If so, I can do that in about an hour.
Regarding whether you claim now or later... that's your call.
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby Sabrar » Thu Mar 02, 2017 4:55 pm UTC

adnapemit wrote:I don't believe that lynching an indie is better than trying to lynch scum. If they aren't anti town then we lose a chance to lynch a threat and scum get a kill. Znirk however is currently a good lynch candidate because claiming indie early tells scum that they are not town and don't need to be a target. To me Znirk is either jester, anti-town indie or scum pretending to be indie. I would rather lynching scum than a jester.
I do not agree with your reasoning, it is possible from Znirk's pov that the best play for him is to let scum know he is not a threat (e.g. Survivor). That doesn't make him anti-town and assuming he is telling the truth then he provides basically the same amount of information to both town and scum (i.e. similar to how scum don't need to kill him, the same way Cop doesn't need to investigate him, Doc doesn't need to protect him, etc).
Also if I'm reading it correctly he basically promised to help us against scum and I would assume he can prove this later.

@JustDanceUnlimited: suppose that you know the roles. You still wouldn't claim that you're the Doctor for example, because that just paints a huge target upon your back without any benefit for Town. So I'm not really sure how this is so different from your previous games that you wouldn't know what to do. What do you normally say in a Mafiascum game?

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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby mpolo » Thu Mar 02, 2017 5:29 pm UTC

Would the hypothetical lynch of a hypothetical jester end the game with a town and scum loss, or would the game continue to allow others to reach their goals (as is usual here, but not universally)?
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby dimochka » Thu Mar 02, 2017 5:39 pm UTC

mpolo wrote:Would the hypothetical lynch of a hypothetical jester end the game with a town and scum loss, or would the game continue to allow others to reach their goals (as is usual here, but not universally)?

The game would continue until the game outcome of all existing factions is determined or becomes inevitable.
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:05 pm UTC

Quick post on way home from work:

@plytho - your reads list only has two scummy players listed, one of whom had not yet posted, and the other based on some things others had said. Would you mind explaining your scum read on Gopher in more detail, please?

@JustDanceUnlimited - in general early claims are a bad idea, I find, simply because it doesn't give Town any useful info on D1. There are of course exceptions - Madge's Miller claim being one clear one. The general rule should be, claim if you think it is more beneficial to Town than Scum, bearing in mind that you don't have all the info at this point. At this point, read what is said, consider why you think people said it and post your own thoughts. Here are some good starting questions for you: What do you think about my vote on you? What do you think about plytho's scum read on you? Do you believe Madge and Znirk's claims?

Speaking of Znirk, I doubt he's a survivor. From experience, they tend to explicitly claim as such when they claim indie. That generally isn't the case for other indies this early - claiming jester or lyncher for example isn't going to happen. I think he is likely indie, but whether an anti-town one or not is up for debate still.
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby freezeblade » Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:19 pm UTC

I think any discussion about "what an anti-town indie would do" on D1 vs "what a pro-town indie would do" on D1 is all heavily soaked in wine. That said, personally, in games that I have played where I'm scum or anti-town indie (which, if you look back at my past 10 games or so, has been about 90% of the time) I tried in quite a few of them to claim survivor indie when pressed, as it is a seemingly innocuous role on the face of it (ie. "Don't bother with me, I'm neutral, no reason to check or pay attention, nothing to see here").

I don't like these explicit D1 claims, as there's no information that we actually gain from them that is verifiable until a further day. Slight IGMEOY Znirk, and Sabrar as well, for buddying. It's all very, very light however right now, as D1 sucks, and nothing is verifiable or really all that concrete. Man, I hate D1.
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby LaserGuy » Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:44 pm UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Speaking of Znirk, I doubt he's a survivor. From experience, they tend to explicitly claim as such when they claim indie. That generally isn't the case for other indies this early - claiming jester or lyncher for example isn't going to happen. I think he is likely indie, but whether an anti-town one or not is up for debate still.


Survivor seems really doubtful to me. Why would a survivor need a false claim from flavor? If she's character is out for personal revenge, lyncher makes a lot of sense to me. For lynchers, would win condition be "You need to get Griswold lynched"? or "You need to get jimbob lynched"?

From what bessie mentioned and from Znirk's post, it's possible that cop reads may only reveal "demon" or "human", but not all demons are mafia, and not all humans are town.

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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby plytho » Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:48 pm UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:@plytho - your reads list only has two scummy players listed, one of whom had not yet posted, and the other based on some things others had said. Would you mind explaining your scum read on Gopher in more detail, please?


I think Sabrar made sense in this post. Scum does not like it when a bunch of people are suspicion free.

I also picked up mpolo's unease at the fact that Gopher quickly accepted bessie's setup spec.

I know that's not much to go on. I'm definitely not very confident in my reads. This is mostly me trying to figure out the game without lurking.
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby freezeblade » Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:56 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:Survivor seems really doubtful to me. Why would a survivor need a false claim from flavor? If she's character is out for personal revenge, lyncher makes a lot of sense to me. For lynchers, would win condition be "You need to get Griswold lynched"? or "You need to get jimbob lynched"?.


typically around here, the former is the pattern, so that the lyncher must figure out who is playing [character] as well.
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby bessie » Fri Mar 03, 2017 6:03 am UTC

Znirk wrote:For the benefit of those who do engage in such speculation, I'll go ahead and claim independent win condition though: whether or not I win doesn't directly depend on whether it's town or scum who win the larger game.
Why would you claim so early? I always think of indie claims as someone to lynch if there’s no other candidate. The problem with indies is that we can’t (and shouldn’t) trust them not to switch sides as it benefits them (as they should). Ok, Znirk, do you have a not-too-anti-town win condition we can help you with and get you out of the game early (like a jester)? I really don’t want to have you around on D5.

All right, just read Znirk’s expanded claim. I’ll need to think about this a little. It looks like he might be a lyncher type indie, which is more likely anti-town, just because the town pool is larger.

Gopher of Pern wrote:I just don't see the point of claiming early. Everyone here seems to accept these claims at face value. It's essentially turning them into a protected class, which kinda ticks me off.
I agree with this. It’s not necessarily that it makes the game less fun, but it makes it, well, something I can’t quite articulate. When this question was asked in WoT2 about townies claiming, I said that I think townies tend to overclaim to avoid the lynch, but I understood why. And I guess you could say I stood by my words in that game, not claiming on D1 (or D2 or D3 for that matter) despite facing an almost certain lynch and having one of the towniest roles in the game of mafia.

@JustDanceUnlimited, welcome to the game, we’re always happy to see new players! The best advice I can offer you is to just post whatever you’re thinking. I see some other players have already asked you questions, so perhaps you can start with those. In general, posting and engaging with others, asking and answering questions, and the like is considered townie behavior, and lurking is considered scummy. Also, please don’t use red colored text in your posts. Red text is generally reserved for the forum mods to use in their official capacity (you can find the xkcd forum rules stickied at the top of the forum).

Out of time, I'll reply to anything else later.

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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby Sabrar » Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:11 am UTC

Will probably be quite busy on Monday, so here are some early reads (pre-post edit: but mostly just summaries):

Spoiler:
adnapemit: would like to see a reaction to this. Mostly focuses on the early claims which is a safe territory to lurk while not appearing directly so. Slightly scummy.

ahippo: early claim to compensate for inactivity in last game, however doesn't really contribute anything to the discussion apart from investigating
possibility of false miller. This seems to clash with his intentions. Slightly scummy.

bessie: mostly setup-spec, there is one thing I'm curious about:
bessie wrote:I had considered that players may not know they are possessed/demons/whatever scum naming works with the flavor. So it looks like scum knows they’re scum.
Did you really think that a newbie-friendly game would contain hidden win-conditions to the effect that scum doesn't know they are the bad guys?
Otherwise good thoughts about Znirk, dislikes early claims which seems consistent. Her content is a bit less than what I'm used to but she mentioned having little time, so hopefully that will change. Slightly townie.

Carlington: too little content to analyze, was similar in WoT2 where he was scum, have to check previous games to see overall trend.

freezeblade: first to suggest the "everyone is a villager" setup that seems to be liked by others. Later mentions that his character is someone who nobody mentioned before, I'm interested to see what will come out of this. Puts high chance on recruiting due to flavor and mod-wording. Hates D1, which is consistent with previous such claims. Suspicious of Znirk due to personal experience. What little content he has feels natural. Slightly townie.

Gopher of Pern:
Gopher of Pern wrote:Plus, if we are all named town NPC's from the game, Griswold would be one of the first I would suspect as scum, due to him having a cameo in the second game as possessed.
The mod specifically mentioned that only Diablo 1 is relevant so this looks suspicious.
Gopher of Pern wrote:If I were scum, and you were not, I would think that you are a PGO, trying to attract the scum kill. If so, kudos! I'm sure I've
spilled enough WINE here to give them second thoughts. Maybe you do have a really good townie power, and are trying to make scum think you are a PGO, so they'll leave you alone. Mindgames...
This is pure wine that I'm having trouble to see coming from a townie mindset.
See also my reservations about his reactions to the early claims. Scummy.

jimbobmacdoodle: overall solid content, drawing attention to potential mafia supporter recruitment by role name is unlikely to come from scum. Townie.

JustDanceUnlimited: took 2 days to state that he doesn't know what to do in a closed setup. This seems fishy, as a bit of read through of D1 of the other games on the forum would have provided plenty of material to see what is the usual procedure here. Also could have mentioned it right at the start and began contributing instead of waiting. Not a newbie to the game overall so should have good grasp of the basics. Currently feels lurky, hiding behind incompetence. Scummy.

LaserGuy: little content but at least provides some reads/commentary. Brings up Race Cop idea which seems weird if it doesn't give good indication of alignment. However he's a newbie so that's not really telling me anything. He's trying to participate which feels townie to me (especially compared to the previous entry).

Madge: if Miller claim is true then very unlikely to be any kind of anti-town role. If she's lying then I think she must have felt relatively safe from any counter-claims, meaning her scum-buddies are most likely among the players who haven't spoken before her (for later reference: mpolo, adnapemit, Znirk, Carlington, JustDanceUnlimited). Refusing to participate on D1 is standard for her so that's a null-tell. Probably Town.

mpolo: expects cult, lot of anti-town. Some early reads but little content otherwise.

plytho: very active, asks for clarifications, provides read list and willing to answer questions. Townie.

SirGabriel: started out active, disappeared due to IRL. Basically no content so far.

Znirk: No content besides claim. However nothing he said really explains why he claimed so early, so it's possible that he's anti-town and wants to be left alone. Agree with bessie that it wouldn't be advantegous for us to have him around in the late stages of the game.
Ok, I just realized that I'm calling far too many players to be lurking or having very little content when less than 3 days have passed. However weekend is coming up and deadline is Monday morning for US players, so please try to contribute when you have the chance!

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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby mpolo » Fri Mar 03, 2017 11:26 am UTC

This Friday is going to be crazy for me. I just read through, but I have class now…
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby Znirk » Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:12 pm UTC

Quick check-in: I'm hovering around, but don't currently have the sustained time to properly read the thread and form opinions. Open to questions, if any.

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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby freezeblade » Fri Mar 03, 2017 4:47 pm UTC

Of note for activity: I'll be here today until quitting time (5pm PST), then will be gone all weekend (yay weekend vacation in the mountains!). I will be returning on Monday office hours, (7:30am PST).
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby dimochka » Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:26 pm UTC

As the day moved into late afternoon, the discussion continued though not as excitedly as it did in the morning. "Diablo is among us", some whispered. "Crazed cultists are taking over our minds", murmured others. But there was no real consensus, and so people broke apart into smaller groups to try and ease their suspicions. Pepin was having a side discussion with Farnham, trying to convince him that they are both human and quite in their right mind (though that was debatable for Farnham, as usual). Adria stepped away to take care of Kael Rills, who was found badly injured by the Church but was slowly recovering from his wounds. And Cain was guiding Ogden as he was hanging a new temporary sign on his Tavern, aided by three of the newcomers - a burly Barbarian who did not seem very bright but was very handy for this menial task, a Necromancer of the southern lands who inherently scared everyone with his hat made of skull and bone but otherwise seemed to be exceptionally nice, and a well-dressed Sorcerer who apparently did not mind getting his robes dirtied.

"It's getting quite late," said Gillian loudly, "and once the sun goes down I'm going back to my grandmother. She needs her nightly tea and medicine, as well as the peace of mind that I'm with her."

"You are quite correct, my child," said Cain. "Once night rolls around, who knows what demons will be lurking in the shadows."


As I said before, flavor is primarily that - flavor. At best it can hint at a character's original personality / relationships, but it will say nothing of powers or alignments. Additionally, not all those mentioned are in the game, and there are individuals not mentioned who are in existence. And finally, I am in no way rushing any of you!

Current Votals:
JustDanceUnlimited - 1 (Jimbobmacdoodle)
Madge - 1 (SirGabriel)

15 people alive, 8 to lynch.

D1 Deadline [Click here!] in a bit less than 3 days (and is a soft deadline, assuming no one reached majority). Expect future days to be shorter.


If I messed up the votals somewhere, let me know.
Last edited by dimochka on Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:50 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby Sabrar » Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:37 pm UTC

@dimochka: I've unvoted in a previous post.

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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby dimochka » Fri Mar 03, 2017 6:23 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:@dimochka: I've unvoted in a previous post.

Fixed, thanks for letting me know. There should not be any unexplained vote anomalies like that, so if you notice something, make me aware.
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby LaserGuy » Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:02 pm UTC

Thinking more about Znirk's claim...

I'm inclined to believe that he is indeed Red Vex/Rogue. This seems far too risky to invent and too easy to be counterclaimed.

If he's neutral, I'd say odds are very high that he's a lyncher. Claims a vaguely townie-helping power... maybe Tracker? Both fit thematically with the character and flavor that he's proposed. He could be a survivor, in which case I'd suspect role to be something like 1-shot vigilante to fit flavor. The flavor of Red Vex is honestly not particularly townie (she's a succubus-like demon who is the concubine to the main villain), and the flavor he quoted doesn't really fit survivor that well. Jester doesn't really fit here to me. Serial killer is possible, I guess, though I have to agree with adnapemit that I really have a hard time believing an SK would claim indie at this point. Assuming lyncher, it's possible that Znirk doesn't actually even know if his target is town or mafia (or indie, I guess), if he just knows a name.

If he's town, I have no idea why he would make a false claim like this. It seems completely counterproductive.

If he's scum... well, part of the problem is that town might lynch him anyway if they think he's an indie with an anti-town agenda. I don't see how this would benefit scum more than him just keeping his mouth shut and pretending to be townie, especially on D1. If this were D2 or D3 and people were thinking he was scum for other reasons, maybe this would make sense to try to deflect attention. But as a D1 play, I don't see it.

So lyncher seems to make the most sense to me, with, IMHO, some kind of investigative role, though I'm a lot less certain about the latter than the former.


I guess the question really is, if we don't get any substantial information beyond this point, is it worth lynching him assuming his claim is essentially correct? I'm not sure. Maybe not? It's almost the same as a no-lynch. We don't gain any extra information, and scum (plus any SKs, etc.) get their night kills. I'm not sure if it is better or worse than mislynching a random lurker that flips town. Fewer townies is bad, but at least it gives us some extra intel to work with, there's a chance we might hit scum, and lurkers aren't really helping town anyway. OTOH, the argument for lynching him in a subsequent week is unlikely to get better, so if we don't do it now, he may end up sticking around for a long time, which could be bad if he decides to side with scum--which certainly could happen if he's a lyncher who happens to have a townie target.

I'm definitely leaning toward voting Znirk at the moment for lack of better options.

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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby SirGabriel » Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:13 pm UTC

Yesterday I was called in to work at the last minute to cover someone else's shift, so I didn't have time for a reread. Now that I finally have the time, I should have a decent post ready within an hour or two.

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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby freezeblade » Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:29 pm UTC

Granted no new, relevent, or damning information shows up before the deadline, I think that an indie lynch or a lurker lynch is preferable to a no-lynch. I don't really have suspicions of much at this point besides Znirk, who I do believe is an indie, however of dubious alignment. I'll toss down a vote before I leave work today, as I won't be here this weekend except maybe to check in quickly before heading out Saturday, or showing back up at my house on Sunday evening.
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby Gopher of Pern » Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:32 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
Gopher of Pern wrote:It's essentially turning them into a protected class, which kinda ticks me off.
From personal experience this sentiment is more indicative of scum, town should be happy that there is less space for scum to hide.


I'm coming at this from a metagaming point of view. I think the game is better when claims are rarer, or at least risky. Yes, it can make the game easier for town, but if I wanted an easy game, I wouldn't be playing mafia.

Znirk wrote:Actually, let me double down on claims-that-may-help-town: My role PM explicitly offers me a false character claim. I am Red Vex (or the Red Vex, or possibly even a Red Vex; still don't exactly understand the details here), some sort of undead being out for personal revenge. However the PM implies I could claim to be my twin sister and exact lookalike, the Rogue. Maybe other roles of the more demonic persuasion have a similar offer baked in?


So....you have an explicit false character claim, but decide not to use it? Are you not worried about a lyncher or something? A false character claim is there for a reason.

plytho wrote:
Gopher of Pern wrote:It's still early in the day. I'm sure scum will slip up somewhere along the line.
Does this happen often on day one?


Often enough. Some scum have been caught with their confirmation post.

adnapemit wrote:
Gopher of Pern wrote:At this stage, I'd be happy lynching Znirk, if no one better pops up on my scumdar. Claiming indy early on is silly. If they are a jester, let them have their win early, and if they are a survivor, it can be better to let them die now, than risk them siding with scum later on. If they are an SK they are silly for claiming.
Silly would be an understatement for a SK to claim indie at this point in the game.
I don't believe that lynching an indie is better than trying to lynch scum. If they aren't anti town then we lose a chance to lynch a threat and scum get a kill. Znirk however is currently a good lynch candidate because claiming indie early tells scum that they are not town and don't need to be a target. To me Znirk is either jester, anti-town indie or scum pretending to be indie. I would rather lynching scum than a jester.


Of course we'd rather lynch scum than jester. If you have a better scum read, go for it! But it is often hard to detect scum in D1, so lynching a claimed indy can be a useful way to get to D2 with more information, and less chance of hitting town.

Sabrar wrote:
adnapemit wrote:I don't believe that lynching an indie is better than trying to lynch scum. If they aren't anti town then we lose a chance to lynch a threat and scum get a kill. Znirk however is currently a good lynch candidate because claiming indie early tells scum that they are not town and don't need to be a target. To me Znirk is either jester, anti-town indie or scum pretending to be indie. I would rather lynching scum than a jester.
I do not agree with your reasoning, it is possible from Znirk's pov that the best play for him is to let scum know he is not a threat (e.g. Survivor). That doesn't make him anti-town and assuming he is telling the truth then he provides basically the same amount of information to both town and scum (i.e. similar to how scum don't need to kill him, the same way Cop doesn't need to investigate him, Doc doesn't need to protect him, etc).
Also if I'm reading it correctly he basically promised to help us against scum and I would assume he can prove this later.


Yes, he's promised to help us against scum, but who wouldn't?

plytho wrote:I also picked up mpolo's unease at the fact that Gopher quickly accepted bessie's setup spec.


That was mainly a throw back to last game, where I attacked bessie for essentially getting the setup spec right.

Sabrar wrote:Gopher of Pern:
Gopher of Pern wrote:Plus, if we are all named town NPC's from the game, Griswold would be one of the first I would suspect as scum, due to him having a cameo in the second game as possessed.
The mod specifically mentioned that only Diablo 1 is relevant so this looks suspicious.
Gopher of Pern wrote:If I were scum, and you were not, I would think that you are a PGO, trying to attract the scum kill. If so, kudos! I'm sure I've
spilled enough WINE here to give them second thoughts. Maybe you do have a really good townie power, and are trying to make scum think you are a PGO, so they'll leave you alone. Mindgames...
This is pure wine that I'm having trouble to see coming from a townie mindset.
See also my reservations about his reactions to the early claims. Scummy.


Only Diablo 1 is relevant?

dimochka wrote:And Cain was guiding Ogden as he was hanging a new temporary sign on his Tavern, aided by three of the newcomers - a burly Barbarian who did not seem very bright but was very handy for this menial task, a Necromancer of the southern lands who inherently scared everyone with his hat made of skull and bone but otherwise seemed to be exceptionally nice, and a well-dressed Sorcerer who apparently did not mind getting his robes dirtied.


Barbarian, Necromancer and Sorcerer are classes from D2. Of course dimochka is going to put their spin on things. My point is a bit moot now that the roles were given random alignments. As to my WINE, it was deliberate. WINE can be just as effective against scum as town. I was trying to make them second guess themselves.

As to my final thoughts on Znirk....I'm 50/50 on them being jester or lyncher. I just can't see them digging a further hole for themselves as anything else. Claiming you have a false claim? It screams jestery to me. But then, they might be playing to my preconception of a jester in the game. Right now, I think I'm in favour of ignoring them.

As for lynch candidates, Sabrar is springing to mind. They are misconstruing my posts, just like last game, where they were scum. But then, we seem to butt heads in most games.
The only other thought that isn't a lurker vote is freezeblade. But that's mainly because they are unlucky with the random, and usually end up scum.

I'll look through everyone later.
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby Sabrar » Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:43 pm UTC

Gopher of Pern wrote:Only Diablo 1 is relevant?
From here:
all flavor and roles are strictly from Diablo 1 and its Hellfire expansion

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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby freezeblade » Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:44 pm UTC

Vote via Meta Unlucky RNG? That's kinda funny. But I would like to not be lynched, thanks :P
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby SirGabriel » Fri Mar 03, 2017 11:21 pm UTC

adnapemit - Believes Madge's claim, uncertain about ahippo's. Thinks Znirk is either jester or anti-town, and therefore is a good lynch candidate. Neutral.

ahippo - Claims his character name is in GoP's list, then in his next post claims to be Griswold. Waits until his second D1 post to joke vote. Thinks Madge is likely town. His actions are not what I would expect from town, but I think that's more due to inexperience than anything related to his role. Neutral.

bessie - Posts setup spec for a generic 15-player game, ignoring the mod's comments about roles being randomized. Only made minor changes to it once she realized her mistake. Thinks Madge's claim is interesting, but doesn't say whether she believes it. Thinks we should lynch claimed indies if we don't have a good scum candidate. Thinks Znirk might be a lyncher. Slightly townie.

Carlington - Thinks Madge is actually miller and Znirk actually indie (says nothing about whether he thinks Znirk is anti-town and/or a good lynch candidate). A little setup spec. No other content yet.

freezeblade - Thinks cult is very likely to be in the game, based on a few hints from the mod. Claims his character name hasn't yet been mentioned in thread. Doesn't like the D1 claims, doesn't like D1 in general. Thinks Znirk is suspicious and that we should lynch either the claimed indie or a lurker. Neutral.

Gopher of Pern - Thinks cult is possible, gives flavor reasons why. Thinks jester might be in the game because "The idea of a jester appeals to me. It can sorta also go with the flavour. It's just a hunch I have." This sounds to me like something in his role PM either hinted at or explicitly stated that there is a jester, but I can't think of any reason why he would have been informed of that unless he was the jester, which doesn't make much sense given his playstyle so far. Doesn't understand ahippo's claim. Intentionally creates wine regarding the possibility of ahippo being a PGO. Wants to lynch Znirk if we can't find any likely scum; later changes his mind, says Znirk is likely jester or lyncher, suggests Sabrar and freezeblade as lynch candidates. Slightly scummy.

jimbobmacdoodle - Thinks cult is unlikely. Doesn't like Madge's claim. Some setup speculation. Points out the possibility that ahippo is a mafia supporter. Might have a hidden bonus win condition. Znirk is likely indie but not survivor. Neutral.

JustDanceUnlimited - No content so far.

LaserGuy - Thinks ahippo is likely either bulletproof/PGO trying to draw the nightkill, or scum. Suspicious of freezeblade. Thinks Znirk is likely a lyncher and is the best lynch candidate at the moment. Neutral.

Madge - Claims miller, claims her character name appears in the day start flavor (and for now I'm willing to believe her). No other content so far. Slightly townie.

mpolo - Cult is likely, based on mod hints. Thinks Madge is telling the truth, has Sabrar, bessie, and plytho as leaning town and ahippo and jimbob as neutral. Neutral.

plytho - A bit of setup spec. Analysis post: Sabrar, Madge, mpolo, and bessie as townie, Znirk as indie, JustDanceUnlimited and GoP as scummy. Admits that he's not very confident in his reads but he's trying not to lurk. Neutral.

Sabrar - A lot of setup spec. Doesn't like how GoP doesn't like everyone accepting the early claims at face value. Defends Znirk's claim, suggests that Znirk could be a survivor. A couple things are pinging me here. First, he seems to be taking Madge and Znirk's claims at face value. Pretty much everyone else said whether they believe those claims or not and why, but Sabrar doesn't even mention Madge's claim, and his only response to Znirk's claim is to say that it's technically true for at least some anti-town indies, and his response to GoP suggests that he's accepted that neither is scum without giving any reasons why. Second, I don't like how Sabrar is defending Znirk's claim. I agree that there is a possibility that Znirk is not anti-town and that we shouldn't lynch him just for claiming indie, but Sabrar seems to go overboard in defending him. At the moment Sabrar is my strongest scum read.

Znirk - Claims to be independent, claims to be Red Vex with Rogue as a falseclaim. I initially believed his claim to be independent, but his name claim, especially the part about having a built-in false claim (which I've only ever seem given to scum) is confusing me. I'm not sure what kind of non-anti-town independent would need a falseclaim, and I'm not sure what kind of role would claim both their falseclaim and their real name with this little pressure on them. I think we can safely say he's not town, and for now I'm calling him slightly scummy.


Unvote

I think it's a little early for serious votes, but if I were to vote now, it would be for Sabrar.

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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby plytho » Sat Mar 04, 2017 12:04 am UTC

I've been pretty busy today and will be tomorrow as I'm having a rather large dinner party tomorrow. I will be following the game but won't be able to contribute much.

As for now my lynch candidate would be Znirk as he's clearly not town. I agree that his claim is suspicious and there is a risk of him being jester. At this point though I'm having a hard time finding scum tells from other people. I prefer a jester lynch to a town lynch.
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby LaserGuy » Sat Mar 04, 2017 12:50 am UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:I thought of one good reason why ahippo might claim their name this early - he is a mafia supporter who can be recruited by being targeted by mafia, and he believes that mafia will know his name.


@ahippo: Any comments on this?

Znirk wrote:whether or not I win doesn't directly depend on whether it's town or scum who win the larger game.


Does your wincon depend indirectly on which side wins?

Gopher of Pern wrote:Barbarian, Necromancer and Sorcerer are classes from D2. Of course dimochka is going to put their spin on things. My point is a bit moot now that the roles were given random alignments. As to my WINE, it was deliberate. WINE can be just as effective against scum as town. I was trying to make them second guess themselves.


Sorcerer and Barbarian are in Diablo 1 as well (the latter being a hidden class in the expansion). There isn't a playable necromancer in D1, though there are a few monsters with necromatic abilities.

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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby Sabrar » Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:15 am UTC

@SirGabriel: WTF? Did you read my (spoilered) read-list where I talk about Madge's claim and what the implication is in case she's lying?
Regarding Znirk I have absolutely no idea what kind of indie he is and I think that should be evident from my posts. On phone so can't provide links, but from a quick re-read the below should be accurate:
- I have issues with how he worded his claim
- I feel like Gopher of Pern is trying to go for safe lynch instead of scumhunting
- I don't like adnapemit's logic that excludes even the possibility of a neutral indie
- I conclude that Znirk might be anti-town and it's a bad idea to leave him around too long

I don't understand how the above can be viewed as me defending him too hard.

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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby Znirk » Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:29 am UTC

Znirk wrote:whether or not I win doesn't directly depend on whether it's town or scum who win the larger game.


Does your wincon depend indirectly on which side wins?[/quote]

Yes-ish in that I need either of them to win (i.e. I can't win independently or before them). Technically it doesn't matter to me who comes out ahead, but I think I might benefit from a shorter game.

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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby Madge » Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:47 am UTC

I hate D1 but if you're an indie and you're not going to put your cards on the table to help us out, then you suck. You're distracting us and you're causing us to go down potential blind alley and mislynch (if you're pro-town). If you're anti-town, then, well, you suck for being anti town. I don't know what you're up to, but I'm going to try and stop you unless you come clean.

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