The Dark Tower - Mission failure

For your simulated organized crime needs.

Moderators: jestingrabbit, Moderators General, Prelates

User avatar
FrozenFlame
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:26 am UTC

Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby FrozenFlame » Tue May 02, 2017 3:47 pm UTC

Carlington wrote:I'll let jimbob answer for himself, but for my part the thought process is a combination of meta and other factors. Yes, certain roles appear here more frequently than others.
Uhhhh ok, so care to explain what exactly that combination of "meta and other factors" was? You're on the chopping block right now bro, and a response of "my thought process was a combo of stuff" to the question "how did you come to the conclusion that making X claim would communicate Y inference" is surprisingly unhelpful and non-explanatory.

Like obviously some roles appear more often than others in any given mafia community. How does that help me glean your thought process? Are you saying that passive and/or even night only roles are particularly rare here or something? Basically what I'm saying is that it would have been nice to hear your actual rationale rather than "my rationale was based on a combo of stuff."

Carlington wrote:As for the particular mechanics, I get to choose a power that a dead town player had. However, I can't use the same power two nights in a row unless it's unavoidable, and in general can't use the same power twice unless it's unavoidable. Also, the wording of the PM suggests there are roles I cannot use, as I'm told I'll be given a list to choose from each morning.
So you're saying that you don't actually assume a given dead player's power permanently, but rather, you get to pick from any power that any dead town player had on any given night to use as long as you don't use the same power back to back?

Not exactly what I expect when I hear a town backup claim. This seems substantially more powerful. Not sure if that means that you're not just claiming the easy backup archetype because you're scum and don't have a detailed safeclaim or if you just don't actually know how a backup typically works and are making up something that sounds plausible to you but in reality is extremely powerful. Would love to hear other players' thoughts on this claim.

User avatar
Carlington
Posts: 1588
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2009 8:46 am UTC
Location: Sydney, Australia.

Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby Carlington » Tue May 02, 2017 3:57 pm UTC

The other factor is that I went out of my way to claim no result the specific way I did for a reason - that reason being the implication that there was something special about N1 in particular which didn't apply to any other night.
Also, why are you calling me out for not fully answering a question which you addressed to jimbob?
Kewangji: Posdy zwei tosdy osdy oady. Bork bork bork, hoppity syphilis bork.

Eebster the Great: What specifically is moving faster than light in these examples?
doogly: Hands waving furiously.

Please use he/him/his pronouns when referring to me.

User avatar
LaserGuy
Posts: 4581
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:33 pm UTC

Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby LaserGuy » Tue May 02, 2017 4:02 pm UTC

Carlington, why did you also claim that nobody targeted you last night? How would you have known this?

User avatar
FrozenFlame
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:26 am UTC

Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby FrozenFlame » Tue May 02, 2017 4:03 pm UTC

Also food for thought generally: If people buy Carlington's claim (not the way I'm leaning atm) and we have a reasonably confident alternative play, we could direct Carlington to investigate or track a player of our choosing since we have a dead cop and a dead tracker already. Of course the drawback is if he's scum and we let him live and then rely on his investigation for tomorrow's play, we're all but guaranteed to lose at that point unless we nail mafia with today's lynch and/or get some lucky mafia/SK crossfire.

Btw did anyone ever confirm/deny for me whether it is common practice here to give SK's full bulletproof here? What about 1 shot bulletproof? Basically is the any actual real chance of mafia crossfiring the SK?

User avatar
Sabrar
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:29 pm UTC

Re: The Dark Tower - Day 1 - Mistrust

Postby Sabrar » Tue May 02, 2017 4:05 pm UTC

Deadline is in 17 hours. Please send me your night-actions (if you have any) before the end of the day!

Votals:
Carlington - 5 (BoomFrog, LaserGuy, #HBC | Zyth, FrozenFlame, #HBC | YOLOSWAG)
#HBC | YOLOSWAG - 2 (Gopher of Pern, mpolo)
mpolo - 1 (jimbobmacdoodle)
Gopher of Pern - 1 (Carlington)

Not voting: SDK

6 to hammer, tied votals will result in a No Lynch.

User avatar
SDK
Posts: 703
Joined: Thu May 22, 2014 7:40 pm UTC
Location: Canada

Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby SDK » Tue May 02, 2017 4:06 pm UTC

SDK wrote:To-Do
- look at dimochka wagon
- iso mpolo
- iso Gopher
- iso Carlington
- reread YOLOSWAG's Day 2 posts
- read jimbob's big reads list on Page 7
- figure out why a jimbob wagon never got any traction or attention when he was the counterwagon to town


Reviewing dimochka's wagon...
Spoiler:
I'm on, followed by YOLOSWAG, followed by Zyth. Neither give justification for their votes. At the time, I read that as either seeing the same things I was (and keeping hush for the same reasons I was), or generating a new wagon for content (similar to what happened to LaserGuy page 1).

I case dimochka, Zyth agrees with my reasoning, and BoomFrog hops on without reasoning. LaserGuy puts on vote #5 with a long post and reasoning of his own. Feels legit enough.

Carlington agrees with dimochka scumminess in a weak sort of way. Not necessarily scummy, but we'll see where he goes with that...

YOLOSWAG gets off dimochka to join dimochka on jimbob's wagon. BoomFrog does the same.

jimbob gets on dimochka. I would say this makes him look townie (moving onto a dying wagon), except he was the counterwagon, so it could be a move to save his own skin. I will say though that his post does not give me that feeling.

YOLOSWAG moves back to dimochka. BoomFrog goes back to dimochka. I'm noticing a pattern here - BoomFrog has followed YOLOSWAG three times now. I kinda do believe BoomFrog's story, and I think he's probably town. I also don't believe that an experienced player like BoomFrog would feel the need to follow anyone, really. Probably a coincidence?

mpolo: "Dimochka is not off the hook, and I don't object to that lynch train. I'm not going to change my vote so as not to end the day early, though." Probably fine? Not worded in a scummy sort of way as far as I can tell.


No hammer means dimochka is lynched with 6 votes. Hard to believe there would be no scum on that train, but I don't see it. YOLOSWAG? LaserGuy? BoomFrog? jimbob? I'm reading all of them as probably town, but it seems likely I'm wrong on at least one of those.

Better find is that Carlington as scum. He never mentioned dimochka again Day 1, and in Day 2 stated that "I would have been on dimochka's wagon, but I didn't want to end the day early", which is extremely unlikely given the complete lack of attention. Carlington spent his time Day 1 talking about other things, but never mentioned the leading wagon again. Town doesn't do that, especially if they have a scum read on someone as Carlington claims.



So let's do things slightly out of order and iso Carlington first. Day 1 I wasn't a fan of, particularly his treatment of BoomFrog's reveal and now his treatment of dimochka and his wagon.

The now famous "Oh, and just to put it out there, I used no power whatsoever last night, nor was I targeted by anything to my knowledge" did not lead me to believe that he was a backup, but I did assume he'd be calling it a breadcrumb at some point. I don't really care for breadcrumbs myself, especially when they give scum information, and they're too often the territory of scum players anyway, who worry much more about having believable false-claims. But that's neither here nor there for Carlington, I think.

I don't think Carlington and Gopher can be scum together. This reads post by Carlington is too consistent with his treatment of players, and his read on Gopher in particular is too thoughtful. If Carlington is scum, his buddies based on this list alone would be Zyth, FrozenFlame or jimbob. It always makes me very uncomfortable when someone is reading me strongly as town. Carlington has seen me play as scum, and been on the receiving end of my fabricated cases before. That followed by his strong defense of me makes me think he cannot possibly be actually trying to read me.

Carlington's claim is interesting, especially with the added detail he's given. Sabrar advertised this game as having simple roles with some small changes. That's more than just a small change though. A typical Universal Backup will inherit one role, usually the first role to die, but sometimes they get to choose a town player that died Day 1 or Night 1. Either way, that's them, permanently. Carlington's claim is a bit different in that he pulls any power from any dead player throughout the game. I think it was FrozenFlame who mentioned that a backup can also be a scum ability - it's rare, but possible. Leeching off of the dead like that strikes me as flavourfully a very scummy take on a typically town role, and also mechanically eliminates the swinginess from scum getting stuck with a bad role or blessed with a good one. I doubt he's lying, but I think he's scum.
The biggest number (63 quintillion googols in debt)

User avatar
SDK
Posts: 703
Joined: Thu May 22, 2014 7:40 pm UTC
Location: Canada

Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby SDK » Tue May 02, 2017 4:08 pm UTC

FrozenFlame wrote:Btw did anyone ever confirm/deny for me whether it is common practice here to give SK's full bulletproof here? What about 1 shot bulletproof? Basically is the any actual real chance of mafia crossfiring the SK?

I didn't catch you asking that before. Can you show me where you did so?

SK needs something to make them slightly more powerful. Protection from the mafia kill is one common way. Making them a godfather, or a ninja, or having an unblockable kill are other common ways to balance them that I've seen on this site. Sometimes a combination of more than one of those (like when I was SK in Discworld Mafia - I felt bloody unstoppable there!).
The biggest number (63 quintillion googols in debt)

User avatar
FrozenFlame
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:26 am UTC

Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby FrozenFlame » Tue May 02, 2017 4:10 pm UTC

Carlington wrote:The other factor is that I went out of my way to claim no result the specific way I did for a reason - that reason being the implication that there was something special about N1 in particular which didn't apply to any other night.
Also, why are you calling me out for not fully answering a question which you addressed to jimbob?


If it was your intent to communicate that you didn't do anything on N1 but that was likely to change in the future I did not get that message. Though I can understand on some level that you didn't necessarily broadcast that you had a potentially targeting PR that would become active later. Then again, the fact that the setup was all PRs of some sort mitigates this risk aversion rationale.

The question was addressed to both of you. I was asking you to explain how you could possibly conclude that saying "I did nothing N1" would suggest you were a backup, and I was asking jimbob how the hell he could possibly been on the same page as you with that. Both your belief that your non action claim would cause other players to think "maybe hes a backup" and jim's conclusion that you were likely a backup merely from that non action claim are both baffling to me.

User avatar
LaserGuy
Posts: 4581
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:33 pm UTC

Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby LaserGuy » Tue May 02, 2017 4:23 pm UTC

FrozenFlame wrote:Btw did anyone ever confirm/deny for me whether it is common practice here to give SK's full bulletproof here? What about 1 shot bulletproof? Basically is the any actual real chance of mafia crossfiring the SK?


Bulletproof SK is definitely not common practice, I'd say. Ninja type role is probably most common, but they have had a range of powers.

User avatar
SDK
Posts: 703
Joined: Thu May 22, 2014 7:40 pm UTC
Location: Canada

Re: The Dark Tower - Pregame

Postby SDK » Tue May 02, 2017 4:32 pm UTC

Gopher of Pern

Gopher's first reads list still bugs me. I've already talked about his treatment of dimochka, but there is more scattershot mudslinging and odd wording in a few of his reads. Bessie's stands out being that she's now confirmed town: "I honestly don't think that bessie is playing like she usually does" makes me twitch. Gopher's reads on Carlington ("I would not be surprised if they were scum again") and plytho ("Can't fault them at all") show a lack of townie mindset.

After I mentioned his dimochka read the first time, he comes back quite defensively. "What is wrong with my analysis on dimochka? Why are you coming after me, and none of the other people who are voting for dimochka?" That followed by a random accusation of buddying (towards BoomFrog, who Gopher ironically buddied up to earlier), then a vote for a third player doesn't look good on Gopher.

Gopher talks a lot about Carlington and how he's so scummy, but his posts on the matter have no meat. His previous read was weak, then Carlington moves up to:
Gopher of Pern wrote:Carlington is almost certainly scum. Their slip early in the day, as well as their activity yesterday, which was very similar to their activity in previous games, leads to that.

That slip was completely random and not at all concerning, and Gopher has never elaborated on why Carlington's activity Day 1 was scummy.

Gopher, please do elaborate on your Carlington scum read, preferably before Carlington is lynched.

I essentially agree with Frozen Flame on Gopher's "I act scummy" defense. I'm more sure of this scum read than I am Carlington's, and would rather lynch Gopher. At the end of the day, I don't really care much though. Though Carlington's play pointed away from them being scum buddies, Gopher's play heavily points towards that. I think they're likely both scum.

Vote Gopher of Pern

I'll hammer Carlington though if it comes down to it.
The biggest number (63 quintillion googols in debt)

User avatar
FrozenFlame
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:26 am UTC

Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby FrozenFlame » Tue May 02, 2017 4:35 pm UTC

SDK wrote:Carlington's claim is interesting, especially with the added detail he's given. Sabrar advertised this game as having simple roles with some small changes. That's more than just a small change though. A typical Universal Backup will inherit one role, usually the first role to die, but sometimes they get to choose a town player that died Day 1 or Night 1. Either way, that's them, permanently. Carlington's claim is a bit different in that he pulls any power from any dead player throughout the game. I think it was FrozenFlame who mentioned that a backup can also be a scum ability - it's rare, but possible. Leeching off of the dead like that strikes me as flavourfully a very scummy take on a typically town role, and also mechanically eliminates the swinginess from scum getting stuck with a bad role or blessed with a good one. I doubt he's lying, but I think he's scum.


Excellent analysis here. I definitely didn't say that backup could easily be functional and fair scum role, so I won't take credit for that, but it's absolutely true. Pulling powers from dead players that you can't use back to back could very easily be either a town or scum power as it has a lot of utility for both factions and has the added bonus as a scum ability of providing scum access to "pro town" powers that they can use to generate disinformation.

So yeah, completely agree Carlington could be 100% telling the truth about his role's abilities but still be scum. Still not ruling out the possibility that he just got a safeclaim of "Backup" and is filling in the blanks himself. Or maybe he didn't get a safeclaim at all, though I'd be shocked to hear that it isn't meta here to provide safeclaims in games where all players are guaranteed a power role. Absent safeclaims in those types of games you run a very serious risk of your games devolving into mass claim-a-thons.

SDK wrote:
FrozenFlame wrote:Btw did anyone ever confirm/deny for me whether it is common practice here to give SK's full bulletproof here? What about 1 shot bulletproof? Basically is the any actual real chance of mafia crossfiring the SK?

I didn't catch you asking that before. Can you show me where you did so?

SK needs something to make them slightly more powerful. Protection from the mafia kill is one common way. Making them a godfather, or a ninja, or having an unblockable kill are other common ways to balance them that I've seen on this site. Sometimes a combination of more than one of those (like when I was SK in Discworld Mafia - I felt bloody unstoppable there!).

Went back and checked my posts and I actually never asked this, my bad. I thought for sure I had included it in my first paragraph of post #181 but apparently I neglected to do so.

You say "protection from the mafia kill is one common way." Do you mean unlimited protection, or one shot protection? Big difference. I assume that SK's are immune to cop investigations since most cops return "Mafia/Not Mafia" where Independent falls into Not Mafia so I presumed any SK here would have that boon in addition to other protections, but maybe that was a bad assumption? I've definitely seen other buffs like unstoppable kill and ninja (untrackable/unwatchable) in games before so I agree with what you're saying here. Just mostly interested in how this forums trends re: bulletproofness.

User avatar
FrozenFlame
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:26 am UTC

Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby FrozenFlame » Tue May 02, 2017 4:35 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:
FrozenFlame wrote:Btw did anyone ever confirm/deny for me whether it is common practice here to give SK's full bulletproof here? What about 1 shot bulletproof? Basically is the any actual real chance of mafia crossfiring the SK?


Bulletproof SK is definitely not common practice, I'd say. Ninja type role is probably most common, but they have had a range of powers.
This is helpful, ty!

User avatar
FrozenFlame
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:26 am UTC

Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby FrozenFlame » Tue May 02, 2017 4:38 pm UTC

Also @ SDK to clarify, when I ask what you mean when you say "bulletproof is one common way", not only am I asking whether 1-shot bulletproof vs. full time bulletproof is more common, but also I'm asking whether or not those protections are common HERE on this forum specifically, as I understand that they are generally common buffs to give to SKs. Definitely looking for whatever data can be provided re: what is likely to be given in THIS community.

User avatar
SDK
Posts: 703
Joined: Thu May 22, 2014 7:40 pm UTC
Location: Canada

Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby SDK » Tue May 02, 2017 4:44 pm UTC

FrozenFlame wrote:Went back and checked my posts and I actually never asked this, my bad. I thought for sure I had included it in my first paragraph of post #181 but apparently I neglected to do so.
Okay. You sure you didn't mention it in scumchat or something?

FrozenFlame wrote:You say "protection from the mafia kill is one common way." Do you mean unlimited protection, or one shot protection? Big difference. I assume that SK's are immune to cop investigations since most cops return "Mafia/Not Mafia" where Independent falls into Not Mafia so I presumed any SK here would have that boon in addition to other protections, but maybe that was a bad assumption? I've definitely seen other buffs like unstoppable kill and ninja (untrackable/unwatchable) in games before so I agree with what you're saying here. Just mostly interested in how this forums trends re: bulletproofness.
When I was bulletproof in Discworld, it was unlimited. Could go either way, I reckon, depending on the mix. Also, cops around here often give "Town" or "Mafia" specifically, which I've always considered crazy, so Godfather SK does make sense if that's the case (this was also me in Discworld). I can't think of another bulletproof SK on this site to use as another example. I agree with LaserGuy that other abilities are more common to see on SK's here in any case.
The biggest number (63 quintillion googols in debt)

User avatar
SDK
Posts: 703
Joined: Thu May 22, 2014 7:40 pm UTC
Location: Canada

Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby SDK » Tue May 02, 2017 5:12 pm UTC

mpolo

Yeah, not gonna write much here. mpolo is not scum, and I would be calling him town if it weren't for his claim of neutral (damn you for making me wrong, mpolo!). I think the only two times I've seen mpolo as scum I caught him Day 1, so... pretty confident in this read. I'm glad the wagon on him disbanded.

He does call me his strongest town read though. *twitch* Am I just that transparent this game? What am I doing differently? Or maybe it's just been long enough since my last scum game that you have all forgotten your fear? Serious question, mpolo.

Also, mpolo, I understand not wanting to share the name of your ward, but could you please answer one question: Do you currently believe your ward is town or scum?



As for mpolo's wagon, it's just the HBC guys... That along with the dimochka wagon... One of them has got to be scum. Need to take another look. jimbob hops on afterwards saying that mpolo is the SK. Should take another look at him too.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:mpolo - Voted BoomFrog on D1. Wished dimochka would have fought lynch harder. Some comments about likelihood of Serial Killer, and setup speculation, lumping non-nefarious indies with town. Thought dimochka was jester. Thinks near impossible to target SK. Weakly supposes SK should target mafia. Admits actually possible to identify SK. Reads list, with BoomFrog as only scum. Thinks there's a collusion to lynch him on false pretenses. Claims Guardian Angel.
...
mpolo - definitely not town, following his claim, and I don't feel like he is mafia, because I feel like they'd have made more than an effort. That being said, the same could be said about SK, although his other comments about SK definitely feel off to me, and I think that puts him as my top candidate. One major comment that makes me think he is not as claimed, is his recent setup spec, where he lumped "non-nefarious indies" in with town, which presumably would have included himself, if being truthful. However his threat to town depends upon the alignment of his target, so he could easily side with scum later on if protecting one of them. Either third-party as claimed, or SK, with the latter much more likely - I don't think a Jester would have bothered to claim, which is about the only other thought that I could come up with.

jimbob, could you elaborate on your mpolo SK scum read, please? This is a bit of a messy read where it looks like you're taking some of what he's saying at face value, then turning around and saying he's lying and is the SK. What's the deal?


That's enough of my workday spent for now. Hopefully I'll be back again before deadline to try and finish this off.
To-Do
- iso YOLOSWAG (and reread YOLOSWAG's Day 2 posts)
- iso Zyth
- iso FrozenFlame
- iso jimbob (and figure out why a jimbob wagon never got any traction or attention when he was the counterwagon to town)
The biggest number (63 quintillion googols in debt)

User avatar
SDK
Posts: 703
Joined: Thu May 22, 2014 7:40 pm UTC
Location: Canada

Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby SDK » Tue May 02, 2017 5:32 pm UTC

I just remembered that FrozenFlame wasn't voting dimochka at the end of Day 1, so I went back to check on that. Big oversight in my dimochka wagon analysis, but FrozenFlame talks too much to be anything but legit. At least, it feels that way. I'll still want to take a closer look, but no concerns there at the moment.
The biggest number (63 quintillion googols in debt)

User avatar
BoomFrog
Posts: 1069
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:59 am UTC
Location: Seattle

Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby BoomFrog » Tue May 02, 2017 6:09 pm UTC

I will be a bit busy for the next week or so. I expect I will still be able to post about once a day.

Unvote

I believe carlington's claimed role, and my biggest scum ping was his early claim "no power use". Scum-backup seems bizarre to me, there's very few town roles that would be useful to scum. I guess it's possible but it seems unlikely to me. That said, I'm still considering putting my vote back on there.

@carlington: Why did you think only town would get the message? If scum figured out you are a cop/doctor they would want to NK you as cop is likely our strongest power role. Why give them that info?

Regarding safe-claims: This info is four years old, but in my experience on these forums safe-claims are pretty rare. Usually there is nothing or there is a publicly posted example claim to use as a template for false-claims in the D1 setup. Carlington's "no power use" claim came immediately after D2 started so I believe he really does have the power he's claiming and the non-standardness makes sense in light of the other tweaks in dimochka and bessie's powers.

Speaking of: apparently cops in this game get town/not-town as their result.
You are a standard Cop, receiving Town/not-Town as a result.
"Everything I need to know about parenting I learned from cooking. Don't be afraid to experiment, and eat your mistakes." - Cronos

User avatar
BoomFrog
Posts: 1069
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:59 am UTC
Location: Seattle

Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby BoomFrog » Tue May 02, 2017 6:17 pm UTC

#HBC | Zyth wrote:
BoomFrog wrote:@zyth: I'd still like to know your thinking about why LaserGuy was in your top four scum.

I already explained that in my final post of page 6.
So you did. Sort-of.
#HBC | Zyth wrote:
BoomFrog wrote:
#HBC | Zyth wrote:Pre reread, I have mpolo, carlington, laserguy and jimbob on my list, with the latter 2 being my weaker, fairly neutral reads. It could change post reread though that'll only be during the weekends.

In order to understand where your coming from I need you to explain your train of thought better. Especially LaserGuy, what makes you feel he is third scummiest?

That was most PoE from my memory, I felt everyone else was more likely to be town than laserguy and jimbob, which are 2 slots that I'm not good at reading.

GoP, is town, even if I don't agree with his reads. SDK I felt was town Day 1, though he has started to get a lot of attention today, where he has practically not posted anything. I tried rereading his posts, but I still don't know what to think of the slot. Something that's interesting is that he sits atop both mpolo and Carlington's town lists, both of whom I feel are scummy and with fairly weak reasoning while the ones who I think are town, boomfrog and GoP, are starting to suspect him.
Why then did you have LaswerGuy as neutral? He's been very active even D1 so there's plenty to get a read on.

"slots" is a new term for me in this context. Do you mean those two people are hard for you to read in general? Or just they are hard reads this game? Or that style of play is hard to read?

Why do you feel GoP is town? That is a radically different read then most people have. He's looking like a likely lynch candidate, why aren't you trying to steer people away from making a mistake and lynching him?
"Everything I need to know about parenting I learned from cooking. Don't be afraid to experiment, and eat your mistakes." - Cronos

User avatar
LaserGuy
Posts: 4581
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:33 pm UTC

Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby LaserGuy » Tue May 02, 2017 6:47 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote:Regarding safe-claims: This info is four years old, but in my experience on these forums safe-claims are pretty rare. Usually there is nothing or there is a publicly posted example claim to use as a template for false-claims in the D1 setup. Carlington's "no power use" claim came immediately after D2 started so I believe he really does have the power he's claiming and the non-standardness makes sense in light of the other tweaks in dimochka and bessie's powers.


In a flavored game like this, I would expect scum to have safe characters to claim. Not sure about safe abilities though... I don't recall seeing that in any recent games.

User avatar
mpolo
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2008 3:24 pm UTC
Location: Germany

Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby mpolo » Tue May 02, 2017 7:48 pm UTC

I don't know. SDK has "felt right" this game, so I have him as townie. Now he has me re-thinking.

As to the alignment of my protectee, I am really uncertain. I've gone from thinking town to mafia to serial killer and back again so often that I've lost track. (And then had to edit my real feelings out of my reads posts.) I'm hoping that when the rubble dies down tomorrow, it will be clearer, so that I know who to side with. (Since unlike a survivor, I actually have a side, I just don't know what it is.)
Image <-- Evil experiment

User avatar
jimbobmacdoodle
Posts: 149
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:40 pm UTC
Location: NP 811/The Present

Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Tue May 02, 2017 8:34 pm UTC

#HBC | YOLOSWAG wrote:Why does his claim necessitate him being town?
Not sure if this was addressed to me, but I'll answer it anyway. Carlington's claim doesn't necessitate him being town, but I don't think I've ever seen a scum backup that gets townie powers. There's a first time for everything of course, but I'm not expecting any particularly unusual roles. That being said, I am surprised by how his power works - I'd assumed it to be a case of either getting the ability of the first person to die or choosing one and then being fixed as that new role.
FrozenFlame wrote:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:That's L-1 I believe. Please nobody else vote for Carlington until everybody has had a chance to contribute further. I don't agree with the lynch anyway, and I believe his claim (I'd guessed that he was backup based on the claim already).
HOW IN THE WORLD DID YOU GUESS THAT!? No seriously, how could you have possibly made a guess like that with any kind of confidence? This is actually stunning to me
Luck, with a hint of meta. Based on his comment, he had no action N1. That immediately rules out most of the common power roles we see around here, leaving only Mason, PGO, backup, and 1-shot abilities (such as 1-shot vig). PGO was ruled out by his comment about not being targeted by anybody - that could easily have explained one of the two deaths last night, so he would have been very mistaken to assume he wasn't targeted, and I doubt a Mason would have claimed any night results, negative or otherwise when there's at least 2 still alive. The others were all possible, and I would not have been at all surprised to be wrong, but when his claim matched my guess, it simply reinforced my town read on him.
SDK wrote:jimbob, could you elaborate on your mpolo SK scum read, please? This is a bit of a messy read where it looks like you're taking some of what he's saying at face value, then turning around and saying he's lying and is the SK. What's the deal?
Sorry about the messiness of the read, I'll try again for you:

I'm assuming that mpolo is not Town, as Town should (generally) not lie (there are small cases where they should, but I doubt this is one of them). This makes him either mafia, SK, another indie with a reason to lie, or Guardian Angel as claimed. As stated in my earlier read, I do not believe him to be Mafia. I feel like mafia will are generally not going to be lazy and show casual indifference to what is going on. In contrast, mpolo has been making very little effort to find scum (e.g. one solitary scum read). A Serial Killer needs to try to avoid standing out, both by not looking too townie (so as not to attract the scum night kill), nor by looking too scummy via inactivity and low effort (so as not to attract the lynch or vig shots). It's a difficult line to tread, which is why I reckon SK wins are so rare. This last point is also true of some other indies (e.g. Survivor), but I think for my own sanity I am going to rule out the majority of them, as I don't see why mpolo would have lied about his win condition in most cases that I can think of (lyncher possibly being the only exception). I could see a Guardian Angel role not being too bothered about who is scum, especially as the alignment of the target is unknown.

Summary - activity quality points to either SK!mpolo or GA!mpolo.

Next question is which is he? I've just reread mpolo all the way through from the start of D1, and here are some posts that I think are relevant to the argument:
In post 1 mpolo wrote:I suspect there's going to be a good amount of independent roles as well, though.
Suggests that he might be an independent role (SK included in this possibility), as I can't see any reason to say why there might be a "good amount" of indies wihout having some knowledge of the setup.
In post 4 mpolo wrote:The most common neutrals around here are certainly serial killer and survivor. Occasionally a lyncher. Occasionally a bodyguard. Occasionally a jester. Occasionally something more flashy.

If there is a serial killer, I would presume that either (1) town has access to a kill (vigilante) or (2) the mafia is appropriately reduced in size. As either jimbob or SDK said, here on D1, there's not a whole lot of point getting worried about it, since we won't likely be able to differentiate the two types of scum read before the mafia has begun coordinating. (I suppose there are some times that we get the whole mafia on interactions on D1, but those are the exception rather than the rule.)
Since when was a bodyguard a neutral character? If mpolo is a Guardian Angel, I'd expect him to have included that in the list instead there, since we've seen it around in recent past (MMM2). That last comment was written before I saw that he never actually claimed the name of his role, so I guess he might have been mixing the two up. Mpolo also here joins on with mine and SDK's earlier comments about SKs and being difficult to detect them D1.
In post 7 mpolo wrote:It seems likely that there is a serial killer. And supporters of the Crimson King, presumably Randall Flagg + 1-2 more.

If we're really lucky, mafia is reduced in size due to the serial killer, 10*-2-1 => 7*-2-1 (lumping non-nefarious independents, if they exist, with town).

However, it seems more likely that we are at 6*-3-1, which means this may be our last day with a majority for town unless we hit paydirt. I think I would prioritize getting the serial killer to take out a kill and slow this down enough to analyze.
I mentioned this in my summary of mpolo's posts in my reads list - I found his "lumping of non-nefarious independents" comment as contradicting a Guardian Angel claim, since a GA could be a nefarious indie, if his target is non-town.
in post 9 mpolo wrote:I agree with SDK that it is near impossible to target the SK, since we won't have connections to go on. Any scum hit would be good, but taking out the SK would be better, unless he starts targeting mafia tonight. (Which, I suppose, is in his interest.)
Here, he goes from suggesting targeting the SK to deciding that it's impossible to target them. I don't think this adds up. His opinions on the matter are very wishy-washy, which, at least if I was in mpolo's shoes, would not be how I'd feel about there being two NKs (for reference see my comments when I was a survivor in Diablo Mafia, in Gojoe - a survivor isn't the same as a GA, but it's very similar in terms of what are threats). To me it feels like he's given the likelihood of an SK lip-service, so as not to be seen to be ignoring it completely, whilst also trying to downplay what can be done by it.

Summary: There are enough inconsistencies prior to his claim that makes me think that he is not who he says he is, leaving SK as the likely candidate. There are also suggestions pointing in that direction anyway.

I will now try to reread Gopher of Pern as my top scum pick. It doesn't look like my vote on mpolo is going to be supported, so I need to decide whether it's worth shifting it, especially as the alternative is Carlington, who I believe to be Town.
BlitzGirl the Primordial
matthewglen wrote:Cueball looks concerned.

Image

User avatar
BoomFrog
Posts: 1069
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:59 am UTC
Location: Seattle

Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby BoomFrog » Tue May 02, 2017 8:45 pm UTC

I would expect "safe" fake powers to come with a safe role fake claim. Either both or neither. That said, back-up is an awkward "safe" false-claim since a tracker or watcher could disprove it N1. Anyway, the more I think about it the more I don't like the carlington lynch, it was frankly too easy and his claim is believable. I might reconsider tomorrow but it's worth leaving him alive today.

Vote: Zyth

He's been aiming for just the right amount of townieness while trying to stay under the radar. He's an experienced player and the amount of vagueness under direct questioning today feels very scummy with a side dish of probably SKness.
"Everything I need to know about parenting I learned from cooking. Don't be afraid to experiment, and eat your mistakes." - Cronos

User avatar
Sabrar
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:29 pm UTC

Re: The Dark Tower - Day 1 - Mistrust

Postby Sabrar » Tue May 02, 2017 8:55 pm UTC

Deadline is in 12 hours. Please send me your night-actions (if you have any) before the end of the day!

Votals:
Carlington - 4 (LaserGuy, #HBC | Zyth, FrozenFlame, #HBC | YOLOSWAG)
Gopher of Pern - 2 (Carlington, SDK)
#HBC | YOLOSWAG - 2 (Gopher of Pern, mpolo)
#HBC | Zyth - 1 (BoomFrog)
mpolo - 1 (jimbobmacdoodle)

6 to hammer, tied votals will result in a No Lynch.

User avatar
jimbobmacdoodle
Posts: 149
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:40 pm UTC
Location: NP 811/The Present

Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Tue May 02, 2017 9:12 pm UTC

Gopher of Pern full reread and updated thoughts. When I did my D1 reads list, Gopher was relatively inactive, due to RL issues, but I put him down just the Town side of the true neutral mark, due to his attempts to get some thoughts on players out. His content has certainly picked up in quantity, but I'm not sure I agree with a lot of it, hence my scummy read.

His first part of the D1 reads list felt very much like just picking easy things to comment on: I was suspicious (not the first player to point that out), mpolo was mpolo (and the tautology club is the tautology club), SDK was caustic (which he always is D1), and LaserGuy didn't go overboard in his defence to the early wagon (an easy enough observation). This could be explained by lack of time, of course, so in isolation I didn't read this as scummy. His sarcastic defence versus Yoloswag of "sorry for trying to analyse all the information" seems wrong, given that he didn't have time to do more. I do still stand by my earlier comments about GoP being fair to defend himself with regards to giving a balanced view. His second half of the reads post doesn't feel great to me. His dimochka read echoes others comments; his scummy read of Carlington seems entirely based on a very brief bit of meta; his read on bessie was wrong (third scummiest in fact), and his comment about her playing differently than she usually does was wrong, in my opinion (as far as I remember, she tunnels early a lot).

His overreaction to Carlington's mistake D2 seems odd and then he follows it up, with, in my opinion, an undeserved scum accusation, because the slip was accidental. I'm not sure why town!Carlington couldn't make that sort of mistake. I've made worse in the past. As pointed out earlier, he also refused initially to respond to a question directed at him. I'd be happy if he'd even responded with his eventual response, but plain ignoring it deliberately doesn't sit well with me. Accusing BoomFrog of barking up the wrong tree seems overly defensive. His reads list is very brief and without much explanation for why he thinks the way he does. I also agree with FrozenFlame's comments about GoP's laziness etc. This just doesn't sit right with me at all. He continues to be quite defensive as well, and isn't really looking at a number of players in any real detail.

The one thing that I'm happy with in recent content from Gopher has been pressure on Yoloswag, who I have also been reading as quite scummy, but I don't have time to go back and read them as well.

I'd prefer an mpolo lynch still, as I still think he's the SK and would prefer to get rid of them before another night's worth of kills, but nobody else seems willing to join in, so:

Unvote
Vote Gopher of Pern

I will be online again before deadline, so can hopefully answer any questions in the morning.
BlitzGirl the Primordial
matthewglen wrote:Cueball looks concerned.

Image

User avatar
#HBC | YOLOSWAG
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2014 5:07 pm UTC

Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby #HBC | YOLOSWAG » Tue May 02, 2017 9:24 pm UTC

You know what? Fuck it.
#HBC | Zyth wrote:If we assume GoP is town, would that make the scum team mpolo, Carlington and jimbob? I don't actually have a very good read on jimbob at all.
#HBC | Zyth wrote:GoP, is town, even if I don't agree with his reads.

@Zyth, do you have info on GoP?

I took Zyth's baseless townread of GoP as some kind of informative role that gleaned into his alignment.

I'm pointing this out because we have to hit scum today and the thread looks like a bunch of chickens running around with their heads chopped off with less than 24 hours to go, no unity. If you don't have some info on GoP, I'm voting for him to get lynched because that's the only thing that's stopped me from pushing him. I think he's our best bet based solely off of play.

User avatar
BoomFrog
Posts: 1069
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:59 am UTC
Location: Seattle

Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby BoomFrog » Tue May 02, 2017 9:40 pm UTC

GoP has been trying to explain his thinking even if he's been doing a scummy/lazy job of it. Zyth has been avoiding all confrontation, apparently has strong opinions, but hasn't tried to convince anyone of them.

Imagine Zyth is an informative role with pro-GoP info, don't you think town!Zyth should have been more vocal by now trying to stop the lynch forming on him?
"Everything I need to know about parenting I learned from cooking. Don't be afraid to experiment, and eat your mistakes." - Cronos

User avatar
SDK
Posts: 703
Joined: Thu May 22, 2014 7:40 pm UTC
Location: Canada

Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby SDK » Tue May 02, 2017 9:41 pm UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Summary: There are enough inconsistencies prior to his claim that makes me think that he is not who he says he is, leaving SK as the likely candidate. There are also suggestions pointing in that direction anyway.

That makes some sense, but I don't really see it. He's been too vocal about the SK and too normal in his actions to be anything dangerous, I think. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure he's telling the truth.


BoomFrog wrote:I would expect "safe" fake powers to come with a safe role fake claim. Either both or neither.

I've never seen fake powers come with a fake claim, but on previous sites I played on, fake claims were very common (only the name and flavor, nothing else).

BoomFrog wrote:Vote: Zyth

12 hours to deadline is not the time to try to get a new wagon started with little justification. Do you think Gopher of Pern is town?


#HBC | YOLOSWAG wrote:You know what? Fuck it.
#HBC | Zyth wrote:If we assume GoP is town, would that make the scum team mpolo, Carlington and jimbob? I don't actually have a very good read on jimbob at all.
#HBC | Zyth wrote:GoP, is town, even if I don't agree with his reads.

@Zyth, do you have info on GoP?

Huh. I'd better make sure I check this game again before deadline. Our cop is dead though. What info could Zyth possibly have that clears Gopher?
The biggest number (63 quintillion googols in debt)

User avatar
BoomFrog
Posts: 1069
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:59 am UTC
Location: Seattle

Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby BoomFrog » Tue May 02, 2017 9:45 pm UTC

@GoP: For the record, I think Yoloswag is town for the same reason I think Zyth is scum. Yolo has strongly defended frozenflame which is a risky thing to do as scum. Either you are defending a scummate and forming an obvious link or you are defending a townie and limit yourself late game. Also, Yolo had similar thinking about trying to shake up the dimochka lynch.
"Everything I need to know about parenting I learned from cooking. Don't be afraid to experiment, and eat your mistakes." - Cronos

User avatar
BoomFrog
Posts: 1069
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:59 am UTC
Location: Seattle

Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby BoomFrog » Tue May 02, 2017 9:49 pm UTC

SDK wrote:
BoomFrog wrote:Vote: Zyth

12 hours to deadline is not the time to try to get a new wagon started with little justification. Do you think Gopher of Pern is town?

That is a terrible point. There is clearly enough activity to form a new lynch if it's justified. I am 50/50 on GoP but about 75% sure Zyth is scum. 25% chance Zyth is always like this and I just don't know his meta. Do you think Zyth is town? Look at his evasiveness D2.
"Everything I need to know about parenting I learned from cooking. Don't be afraid to experiment, and eat your mistakes." - Cronos

User avatar
SDK
Posts: 703
Joined: Thu May 22, 2014 7:40 pm UTC
Location: Canada

Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby SDK » Tue May 02, 2017 10:07 pm UTC

Ugh, damnit, I have work to do.

Zyth

Day 1 was... mostly centered on dimochka, but with decent questions here and there to others. His posting is sparse, but I think shows some thought being put into the game. Day 2 does feel a bit different, I agree, though I'm hesitant to call it scummy. He's throwing out reads that are unjustified, and tying players together based on those reads. The tying together thing shows some thought, but you're right that when asked for justification, it just doesn't come. He's on mpolo and Carlington, which is consistent with his reads from part way into the day.

I'm still sitting with a town lean here, BoomFrog, but Zyth does need to explain a few things. Zyth, please explain your Gopher town read and your jimbob scum read. Please also post a full player list in approximate order - I want to know who your strong town reads are at this point, because at times it looked like you were a bit scattershot here.
The biggest number (63 quintillion googols in debt)

User avatar
#HBC | Zyth
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2014 5:11 pm UTC

Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby #HBC | Zyth » Tue May 02, 2017 10:43 pm UTC

Sheesh, I go to bed and this mess comes up. I think we should still go ahead and lynch Carlington; I don't care for his claim. As for GoP, yes, I do have info that he is Town, mod confirmed Town to me. Honestly, I would be right by you guys pushing for his lynch if I didn't. I'm in a private neighbour chat with GoP, where he is mod confirmed Town to me, but my alignment is unknown to him. Just barely skimmed, need to go off to work now >_>

User avatar
#HBC | Zyth
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2014 5:11 pm UTC

Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby #HBC | Zyth » Tue May 02, 2017 10:48 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote:GoP has been trying to explain his thinking even if he's been doing a scummy/lazy job of it. Zyth has been avoiding all confrontation, apparently has strong opinions, but hasn't tried to convince anyone of them.

Imagine Zyth is an informative role with pro-GoP info, don't you think town!Zyth should have been more vocal by now trying to stop the lynch forming on him?

Where was the lynch forming on him? There was pressure, and maybe ONE vote. As for my reads, jimbob and laserguy are just fairly difficult for me to read, probably due to their style of play. I think Boomfrog, YOLO, Frozen and SDK are likely town, and I know GoP is town. Yes, my reads have not changed all too much, but I'm probably reading someone in my townie pool wrong, which is something I'll have to look into when I have time.

User avatar
#HBC | YOLOSWAG
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2014 5:07 pm UTC

Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby #HBC | YOLOSWAG » Tue May 02, 2017 10:49 pm UTC

Excellent, thank you.

I want Town to note that if Zyth's claim is legit, that jimbob's voting record strongly suggests he is scum.

User avatar
#HBC | Zyth
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2014 5:11 pm UTC

Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby #HBC | Zyth » Tue May 02, 2017 10:49 pm UTC

So with that said, kindly unvote GoP, for he is town.

User avatar
BoomFrog
Posts: 1069
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:59 am UTC
Location: Seattle

Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby BoomFrog » Tue May 02, 2017 11:00 pm UTC

Everyone left in this game is experienced, and that means they can pretend to be town. So we take it to the next level, scum are the people who are not willing to look scummy. My votes stands.
"Everything I need to know about parenting I learned from cooking. Don't be afraid to experiment, and eat your mistakes." - Cronos

User avatar
#HBC | Zyth
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2014 5:11 pm UTC

Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby #HBC | Zyth » Tue May 02, 2017 11:05 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote:Everyone left in this game is experienced, and that means they can pretend to be town. So we take it to the next level, scum are the people who are not willing to look scummy. My votes stands.

That is perfectly fine actually, as long as it isn't on GoP. There is no way we are lynching a confirmed member of Town.

User avatar
#HBC | YOLOSWAG
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2014 5:07 pm UTC

Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby #HBC | YOLOSWAG » Tue May 02, 2017 11:25 pm UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Town
BoomFrog
LaserGuy
Carlington
SDK
FrozenFlame
mpolo (probably SK)
Zyth
Yoloswag
Gopher of Pern
Scum
Man. From my point of view, jimbob has at LEAST 3 non-mafia in his bottom four scum assuming mpolo and Zyth are telling the truth (I can't think of a reason the latter would lie unless it's some CRAZY gambit). What's really wild about this reads list is Carlington being so high up on the town list. jimbob has been justifying Carlington's play lately in a way that I just do NOT comprehend from a townie perspective considering the general dislike towards the slot. We also know that jimbob has self-admittedly been looking out for peoples' roles (I did the same with Zyth, but meta played a large part on my end) which is obviously helpful towards scum. Either jimbob is especially skilled at reading Carlington while no one else is (this may be the case, I don't know), or he has some information that the rest of us don't to either keep his hands free of a slot strongly disliked or a scumbuddy. There was also him blatantly SK hunting in-thread and trying to get others to talk about it, which I'm surprised garnered no attention.

I'm thinking a jimbob/Carlington 1-2 punch is in order. I know people have been reading him as town/neutral for whatever reason, but frankly that's not the strongest reason considering the result of the directions we've been going this day phase.

User avatar
FrozenFlame
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:26 am UTC

Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby FrozenFlame » Tue May 02, 2017 11:40 pm UTC

#HBC | YOLOSWAG wrote:Man. From my point of view, jimbob has at LEAST 3 non-mafia in his bottom four scum assuming mpolo and Zyth are telling the truth (I can't think of a reason the latter would lie unless it's some CRAZY gambit). What's really wild about this reads list is Carlington being so high up on the town list. jimbob has been justifying Carlington's play lately in a way that I just do NOT comprehend from a townie perspective considering the general dislike towards the slot. We also know that jimbob has self-admittedly been looking out for peoples' roles (I did the same with Zyth, but meta played a large part on my end) which is obviously helpful towards scum. Either jimbob is especially skilled at reading Carlington while no one else is (this may be the case, I don't know), or he has some information that the rest of us don't to either keep his hands free of a slot strongly disliked or a scumbuddy. There was also him blatantly SK hunting in-thread and trying to get others to talk about it, which I'm surprised garnered no attention.

I'm thinking a jimbob/Carlington 1-2 punch is in order. I know people have been reading him as town/neutral for whatever reason, but frankly that's not the strongest reason considering the result of the directions we've been going this day phase.
lol my thoughts exactly. Either its you Zyth and GoP pulling some all in gambit hoping that town really is THAT close to MYLO/LYLO, or we have some combo of carlington/jimbob/???.

Yolo and Zyth have really felt synced up this game which has bothered me a lot and feeds into my paranoia that they're playing me hard. My heart wants me to believe the HBC crew is all town so I'll openly admit my bias here. But I can't deny that you (Yolo) perfectly calling the PR informed read that Zyth had on GoP is sending off alarm bells. Then again, I'm not sure if you would opt to pull such an all in when GoP is really barely a secondary wagon. Yeah GoP wagon has gained some momentum in the waning hours of the day but even still, doing an all in just to clinch an already likely carlington lynch seems like too much. But hey, it has been awhile since we've played so maybe you've acquired a penchant for risky plays in my absence.

If the general consensus is that this crazy last minute HBC read callout & claim is setting off alarm bells for others, I'm open to being persuaded to calling bullshit and stabbing at a GoP/Yolo/Zyth scum team. But my gut is telling me that this is wayyyyyy too much of a gambit to take knowing that an SK is out there that could completely fuck their quick endgame prospects and the whole scheme could unravel upon a carlington town flip and a lucky SK kill revealing one of those three to be scum overnight.

Keeping my vote on Carlington for now but Ill be watching the thread through the night to see what everyone's feeling.

User avatar
Gopher of Pern
Posts: 250
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:28 am UTC
Location: Central Coast, Australia

Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby Gopher of Pern » Wed May 03, 2017 12:14 am UTC

Well, I'm not a fan of Zyth coming out like that, but yes, I confirm everything that Zyth says. Zyth has a confirmation from the mod that I am town. I do not have any confirmation about Zyth however.

FYI, I am Mother Abigail, from The Stand.

Unvote
Vote: Carlington


Just to keep me further from the lynch.

SDK wrote:Gopher of Pern

Gopher's first reads list still bugs me. I've already talked about his treatment of dimochka, but there is more scattershot mudslinging and odd wording in a few of his reads. Bessie's stands out being that she's now confirmed town: "I honestly don't think that bessie is playing like she usually does" makes me twitch. Gopher's reads on Carlington ("I would not be surprised if they were scum again") and plytho ("Can't fault them at all") show a lack of townie mindset.

After I mentioned his dimochka read the first time, he comes back quite defensively. "What is wrong with my analysis on dimochka? Why are you coming after me, and none of the other people who are voting for dimochka?" That followed by a random accusation of buddying (towards BoomFrog, who Gopher ironically buddied up to earlier), then a vote for a third player doesn't look good on Gopher.

Gopher talks a lot about Carlington and how he's so scummy, but his posts on the matter have no meat. His previous read was weak, then Carlington moves up to:
Gopher of Pern wrote:Carlington is almost certainly scum. Their slip early in the day, as well as their activity yesterday, which was very similar to their activity in previous games, leads to that.

That slip was completely random and not at all concerning, and Gopher has never elaborated on why Carlington's activity Day 1 was scummy.

Gopher, please do elaborate on your Carlington scum read, preferably before Carlington is lynched.

I essentially agree with Frozen Flame on Gopher's "I act scummy" defense. I'm more sure of this scum read than I am Carlington's, and would rather lynch Gopher. At the end of the day, I don't really care much though. Though Carlington's play pointed away from them being scum buddies, Gopher's play heavily points towards that. I think they're likely both scum.

Vote Gopher of Pern

I'll hammer Carlington though if it comes down to it.


Why are you so confident the slip was random? I admit it may be confirmation bias, but everything about Carlington's play has me thinking scum. The way they acted day 1, their slip early on day 2, and the way they are coming after me, just feels scummy. I don't buy their claim either.

jimbob, to you too. Why are you so confident the slip is accidental? I accept it could be, but you seem to take it as a given?

Both of you seem so keen on not lynching Carlington. Why?
Look In My Face
Stare In My Soul
I Begin To Stupefy

User avatar
SDK
Posts: 703
Joined: Thu May 22, 2014 7:40 pm UTC
Location: Canada

Re: The Dark Tower - Day 2 - Misfortune

Postby SDK » Wed May 03, 2017 12:20 am UTC

Not interested in lynching Zyth, so I guess I'll take this at face value today. Too crazy a gambit to be fake, I agree.

Not interest in jimbob either, at least until I can read him which won't be until tomorrow. This should be good though.

Unvote, Vote Carlington.
The biggest number (63 quintillion googols in debt)


Return to “Mafia”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests