Shakespeare Mafia III - Curtain Call

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plytho
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby plytho » Thu May 11, 2017 9:54 pm UTC

freezeblade wrote:
plytho wrote:I agree that the two votes at day start are interesting but I don't get what you mean by nefarious forces? Are you saying Dethstalker and Gopher deserve townie points for starting with votes on them? Also the votals don't say 'unknown' voted for Dethstalker but instead it says 'no votes', so it's not necessarily a vote from someone.


I feel that this may be indicative of a "mandatory voting" mechanic, meaning that the two votes are there (assigned initially randomly) because these players are required to be voting for someone at all times.

So you think bessie has to be voting for someone at all times and someone else has the same thing going on but their vote is hidden? (As opposed to DethStalker having a permanent vote on them.)
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby freezeblade » Thu May 11, 2017 10:01 pm UTC

plytho wrote:So you think bessie has to be voting for someone at all times and someone else has the same thing going on but their vote is hidden? (As opposed to DethStalker having a permanent vote on them.)


In the first case, yes. The second case, I view as equally possible.

I feel that it may work in the flavor, especially as my role PM hints at "supernatural powers" present in-game.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby Madge » Thu May 11, 2017 11:36 pm UTC

Guys guys guys I'm so very sorry that I haven't posted yet! I've only just arrived - where may we set our horses?

I know you've all been really busy and gotten a lot done and I'm hoping I can contribute and that you're not going to be too put out by my dallying!!!

I think SDK made a good point about his role PM - my role PM looks good but my character is not the greatest, I hope it doesn't make any of you think any less of me! I'm going to try my best and do a good job this time, honest!
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby Gopher of Pern » Fri May 12, 2017 12:03 am UTC

Firstly, I would like to confirm that my role pm has indeed been read.

Secondly, Bessie, you scallywag! I demand you remove your vote at once!

Thirdly, Vote: SDK for beating me last game, and for revealing a known townie early in the game, or at least faking to.

Fourthly, all the thee's and thou's are going to get mighty annoying after awhile.

Fifthly, (Is that even a word?) as King Lear, you should all listen to me, as I am the King! Even having very little knowledge of the play, with my name as the title of the play, it must mean that I am the best King ever. So listen to me. Really.

Sixthly, two scum factions may be in play. There are thankfully no cults in the game (according to rule 12). The fun will be in voting mechanics. So I think it would be a good idea if anyone who knows their own abilities to change votes, should declare them early, so town can compensate for them. Scum may be able to manipulate them as well, but as the lynch is town's best (maybe only) way to kill scum, more open information about it would be better.

Seventhly, I am finished. You may now all continue speaking.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby SirGabriel » Fri May 12, 2017 1:29 am UTC

Gopher of Pern wrote:I think it would be a good idea if anyone who knows their own abilities to change votes, should declare them early, so town can compensate for them.

That sounds like a terrible idea. That would basically be telling scum who will be most dangerous to them in endgame. A stitch in time saves nine.

Also, I think I dropped my wallet, has anyone seen it?

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby bessie » Fri May 12, 2017 1:38 am UTC

Bessie’s real life (non game content):
Spoiler:
There was an issue at work so I had to put in about 11 hours today, and I expect similar tomorrow. I probably won’t have time to contribute tonight, as I am going to the airport to pick up my mother-in-law for a six day visit. The good news is that as a result of these two events, by tomorrow night I should be sufficiently frustrated, angry, annoyed, and confrontational enough to produce some excellent content! :D

Gopher of Pern wrote:Secondly, Bessie, you scallywag! I demand you remove your vote at once!

Why don’t you try and make me.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby LaserGuy » Fri May 12, 2017 2:45 am UTC

plytho wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:Firstly, I see that two votes were cast at days beginning. One from bessie on Gopher, the other unknown to Dethstalker. Surely this deserves some comment for it suggests some nefarious forces at work.

I agree that the two votes at day start are interesting but I don't get what you mean by nefarious forces? Are you saying Dethstalker and Gopher deserve townie points for starting with votes on them? Also the votals don't say 'unknown' voted for Dethstalker but instead it says 'no votes', so it's not necessarily a vote from someone.


An excellent question with a most excellent answer. First we must think of the town. How should we defend ourselves? We have few weapons to fight villains save but for our wits and the lynch. While as a king I find democracy bizarre as opposed to my own divine rule I must admit there is a certain charm in this whole lynch idea. It is not unlike my brother Louis who upon deciding that he ought to inherit our father's house--as a third born no less--that my brother and I decided amongst ourselves to relieve him of his head. Quite like that in fact. So the town you see has but the lynch. Our votes therefore must be more pure and unadulterated to assure our likely success against the scum. Events that make it more difficult for the town to lynch or which make it easier for scum to create havoc within the lynch are thus in opposition to the interests of the town. Suppose all three of bessie, Gopher and DethStalker are all among the town. Is there any way in which such uncontrolled votes could be conceived of as beneficial to our cause? Surely not. Such mischief is unwanted and injurious at worst.

freezeblade wrote:Ninja: methinks that dimochka may be laying their actor persona characteristic on a tad heavy. I'm not just saying that because I feel they got one of the "personality traits" that I submitted. What a Juicy piece of drama this play may end up being.


Alas, ninja, I fear he has one of my suggestions, and, if so, his behaviour is entirely appropriate. Mon Dieu..


Shall we take a moment to consider the setup? This most obligatory pastime has been overlooked in favor of the very good and useful business of the lynch, but it cannot be it ignored in its entirety. Of 16 we are, suggesting perhaps six of scum. If of two factions then perhaps three and three. Otherwise then six together. Pairs could also be, two and two with some other great villains unknown. What of independents? Shakespeare without vengeance is nothing so a daresay I expect a lynched in our midst. I suppose we ought to consider the jester, but I find this subject tedious to the extreme. None love the jester. None wish him present. He causes only misery and unrest and even the very mention of him is frowned upon. No jester then, and none shall speak of one. A survivor is expected, dull and tedious as it may be. I reckon we have then perhaps ten of town, two pairs of scum, the survivor and the lyncher, with perhaps the latter two favoring scum give the choice.

I am pleased that Gopher shares my suspicion of the villain SDK. We are kings together and are therefore above reproach, though he is a bit long winded for my liking.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby DGames | Bard » Fri May 12, 2017 3:18 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:
DGames | Bard wrote:If the few fine individuals of this act that are implying that Bessie is Town based on evidence that Bessie is being voted for at day start by aforementioned nefarious forces,
You're reading the votals wrong, convention on this forum is to put the player who is voted for at the beginning and list the votees after (see any previous game as example). In short bessie is not being voted for, she apparently has an automatic vote on Gopher of Pern.
DGames | Bard wrote:The flavor seems to imply that there may be two scum factions, but I'm not sure how frequently this sort of thing transpires.
Rarely, I've only seen it once in my 1.5 years here and that was a game with 26 players.


In that case, I am bamboozled by the current state of affairs. It seems though that a public ability that sticks out as much of a sore thumb as Bessie's seems almost unfair for a scum role, but I'll let Bessie's play speak for itself.

dimochka wrote:I have just perused the rules and found an egregious error within them. Nowhere does it mention my name and participation in this play. I shall have a talk with the director about this :evil:

DGames | Bard wrote:
dimochka wrote:This is ridiculous. Why are we talking about those newbie actors whose experience probably includes their 5th grade Aladdin play. Really, we should be talking about me here. Now that I've confirmed my attendance, I expect everyone to pay attention to my graceful, award-worthy performance. Let's not forget who the real star here is.

Edit: Ah, we're starting practice. Well in that case, let's make sure we realize that none of you matter one bit.

Vote dimochka


Dimochka, I am curious; as a gentleman of a foreign land, I am unfamiliar with this kind of play in the beginning of the game! Pray tell, why are you opting to off yourself in the face of fair amounts of content? I am most curious of your intentions and would like to know what you seek to achieve with this approach to our grand stage of Shakespearean lore!

Ah, but you misunderstand. Art requires sacrifice. As long as I am central to the success of this play... and really every part of it, I will have achieved my life's goal. If one is simply surviving, he is not living.

I also have noticed that there are those here who aim to see this play fail. Fear not, they shall not succeed. And it does seem we are dealing with more than one adversary. If flavor is to be trusted, there may be a group whose powers are likely supernatural, and another who's methods are more common.

Once I am done looking at myself in the mirror (don't hold your breath), I plan to question the lot of you as to your raison d'être and nefarious plans to destroy what shall be my best performance yet.


WELL.

I am not sure how to respond to this. You do you, good fellow. You do you. I'll be peering over the fence yonder to marvel at this spectacle of a performance.

SirGabriel wrote:
Gopher of Pern wrote:I think it would be a good idea if anyone who knows their own abilities to change votes, should declare them early, so town can compensate for them.

That sounds like a terrible idea. That would basically be telling scum who will be most dangerous to them in endgame. A stitch in time saves nine.

Also, I think I dropped my wallet, has anyone seen it?


I agree with this, and find it rather odd that one of our dear kings would suggest outing a potential ally, ultimately causing them to face a bitter end from the rapscallions of the night.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby Gopher of Pern » Fri May 12, 2017 7:48 am UTC

SirGabriel wrote:
Gopher of Pern wrote:I think it would be a good idea if anyone who knows their own abilities to change votes, should declare them early, so town can compensate for them.

That sounds like a terrible idea. That would basically be telling scum who will be most dangerous to them in endgame. A stitch in time saves nine.

Also, I think I dropped my wallet, has anyone seen it?


I don't deny that it could help scum. But it could help town more. After all, if scum go after the people who have vote manipulations, it leaves the docs/cops/vigs alive. Although, it is not specified in the game setup if there are vanilla town.

Are there any powerless roles in the game? i.e. Vanilla town, without any powers or abilities?

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Fri May 12, 2017 8:20 am UTC

My apologies dear friends for my initial absence. I was backstage with one of our dear prop assistants, ahh... comforting... her, shall we say?

A supernatural terror appearath in our midst, I hear? Mayhap it is alone, though the presence of others less noble than ourselves also would be of no surprise to this player.

The fearful side of me doth wonder if the following action will be safe, but my curiosity exceedeth this:

Vote DethStalker

I alas am somewhat preoccupied with other matters for a short while, so this dear troop must wait for more speech from yours truly.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby mpolo » Fri May 12, 2017 8:55 am UTC

No comment on powerless roles.

Votals
DethStalker (2): jimbobmacdoodle
Gopher of Pern (1): bessie
dimochka (1): dimochka
freezeblade (1): SDK
DGames | Bard (1): #HBC | YOLOSWAG
Sabrar (1): SirGabriel
SDK (2): LaserGuy, Gopher of Pern
#HBC | YOLOSWAG (1): Sabrar

Please try to put your votes on a separate line so I don't miss them.
Last edited by mpolo on Fri May 12, 2017 11:06 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby SirGabriel » Fri May 12, 2017 10:41 am UTC

mpolo wrote:No comment on powerless roles.

Votals
DethStalker (2): jimbobmacdoodle
Gopher of Pern (1): bessie
dimochka (1): dimochka
freezeblade (1): SDK
DGames | Bard (1): #HBC | YOLOSWAG
SDK (2): LaserGuy, Gopher of Pern
#HBC | YOLOSWAG (1): Sabrar

Please try to put your votes on a separate line so I don't miss them.

My vote for Sabrar isn't listed here. Is that a mistake,
or has something happened to it?

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby mpolo » Fri May 12, 2017 11:07 am UTC

SirGabriel wrote: My vote for Sabrar isn't listed here. Is that a mistake,
or has something happened to it?


It's there now. Sorry.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby Sabrar » Fri May 12, 2017 5:22 pm UTC

DGames | Bard wrote:It seems though that a public ability that sticks out as much of a sore thumb as Bessie's seems almost unfair for a scum role,
Please elaborate. What do you think bessie's ability is and why is it unfair to be given to scum?

#HBC | YOLOSWAG wrote:1. No.
Then please explain your comment.

@bessie: would you mind voting someone else and letting official votals confirm it?

Let's proceed expeditiously as time is of essence.

TOWN
dimochka (soulread)
freezeblade (soulread #2)
SirGabriel (good reactions)
plytho (no alarm bells)
Gopher of Pern (meta)
bessie (like the aggression)
Madge (can't read her properly, looks normal)
DethStalker (True Neutral)
Bard (being safe here)
Znirk (lurking lurker)
jimbobmacdoodle (Something is rotten in the state of Denmark)
BoomFrog (active lurking lurker)
LaserGuy (my heart says so)
YOLOSWAG (don't like reaction to joke content)
SDK (sheeps very similar to Dark Tower)
SCUM

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby #HBC | YOLOSWAG » Fri May 12, 2017 5:52 pm UTC

What comment are you looking to be explained?

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby Sabrar » Fri May 12, 2017 5:58 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
#HBC | YOLOSWAG wrote:Also, a strong power like bessie being confirmed town would support such a setup.
Do you claim to have info about bessie's power?
If you answer 'No' to the above then why did you make that comment?

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby #HBC | YOLOSWAG » Fri May 12, 2017 6:14 pm UTC

This is what happened from my point of view.

You came in and said Bessie was town. SDK followed and said "I got a role confirmation of Bessie being town Sabrar, good to see you do too". I thought 'OK, it looks like SDK has role information on Bessie so he's engaging Sabrar to verify he got it too.' Even though you denied having any information on Bessie afterwards, I thought SDK might have still had info and was looking to interact with you to find out if you got the same message.

Looking back, I now see it's possible he was "joking", but that was lost on me because there's not much humor to his comment and he went pretty far with it by sheeping you; he was acting like it was legitimate. I also imagine this is a crazy enough game where someone COULD get info like that in their role PM, I've seen role madness games where roles like that are in effect. By "Bessie's power", I meant the scenario where she's confirmed town to other players privately. A lesser reason is that I had some role speculation come to mind where a townie could be confirmed innocent in addition to two scumteams existing; that makes a lot of sense to me from a game design point of view so I could see it at the time.

What I'm trying to say is that I took SDK's claim of having mod confirmation of Bessie being town at face value and operated under that assumption when making my following posts.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby Sabrar » Fri May 12, 2017 6:27 pm UTC

Thanks, apparently I parsed your sentence wrong, it was intended as "a strong power like (bessie being confirmed town)" instead of "(a strong power like bessie) being confirmed town". Will reevaluate.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby SDK » Fri May 12, 2017 6:27 pm UTC

#HBC | YOLOSWAG wrote:Also bessie's confirmed town? Cool, though I would have preferred a player who's less obviously innocent when town, heh.

The new more aggressive style bessie's taken on recently has yet to be tested as far as I know, but she's good at acting town when she's scum. No wonder she got the lead role. *grumble grumble*

LaserGuy wrote:Third, I am further suspicious of this matter because I rather suspect that Sabrar was referring to bessie's well-known proclivity to analyse confirmation posts for scum, not in fact due to a confirmation of bessie's townie status. I am eager of the opinion that Sabrar has more tact.

I suspect you are correct, sire. In truth, I did not believe that Sabrar had the same confirmation as I, but said as much for interest's sake.

Sabrar wrote:
SDK wrote:Are you asking this because bessie is town? Because she is. Good to know that someone else got that confirmation in their role PM too.
Nope, but it's interesting to see your reaction to that.

What do you see in that?

Were you concerned about my sheepiness at the time you made this post? Why so little in reply to me, then, when I have since become your top suspect?

DGames | Bard wrote:In any event, something rubs me the wrong way about the bessie confirmation, as well as the votes at the beginning of the day phase! Forgive me, as I am new here, and so I am still ascertaining the qualities of this stage; where art thy proof of Bessie's innocence? And, can we assume that there are at least 2 forms of vote manipulation at play?

If the few fine individuals of this act that are implying that Bessie is Town based on evidence that Bessie is being voted for at day start by aforementioned nefarious forces, isn't it possible that a scum aligned role targeted another scum aligned role? The flavor seems to imply that there may be two scum factions, but I'm not sure how frequently this sort of thing transpires. Perhaps a more seasoned veteran can offer their wisdom on this matter.

Welcome to the game, Bard. The proof of bessie's innocence lies in my role PM, though I will give no further details on that for the moment. Where did you get the idea that people were calling her town based on the votes in the beginning?

dimochka wrote:Once I am done looking at myself in the mirror (don't hold your breath), I plan to question the lot of you as to your raison d'être and nefarious plans to destroy what shall be my best performance yet.

That would be grand, sir. It is most difficult to attain a read on thee when thou post but naught.

Madge wrote:I think SDK made a good point about his role PM

Could you please elaborate, my lady?

Gopher of Pern wrote:I think it would be a good idea if anyone who knows their own abilities to change votes, should declare them early, so town can compensate for them.

Can you give some examples of what you expected to get out of this question, exactly? I'm finding it difficult to think of why a townie would want to reveal this information or how it would help town.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby Sabrar » Fri May 12, 2017 6:46 pm UTC

SDK wrote:What do you see in that?
Endless possibilities.

SDK wrote:Were you concerned about my sheepiness at the time you made this post?
Yes.

SDK wrote:Why so little in reply to me, then, when I have since become your top suspect?
I dared to presume you would offer more without me prodding you.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby SDK » Fri May 12, 2017 7:03 pm UTC

I am but a beggar, can you not see my beggar's clothes? What can I offer to such a finely dressed fellow as yourself? (This is a real question)

You said my reaction was "interesting". Why did you find it interesting?

If you thought my sheepiness was concerning, why did you choose not to bring it up before?
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby Sabrar » Fri May 12, 2017 7:13 pm UTC

SDK wrote:I am but a beggar, can you not see my beggar's clothes? What can I offer to such a finely dressed fellow as yourself? (This is a real question)
Why did you decide to reveal this info so early in the game, painting a huge target on bessie's head?

SDK wrote:You said my reaction was "interesting". Why did you find it interesting?
Because I assumed you were joking about the confirmation in your role-pm and I tried to figure out why.

SDK wrote:If you thought my sheepiness was concerning, why did you choose not to bring it up before?
Barely a day passed since day-start and I was away for most of it. Is this not early enough for you?

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby DethStalker » Fri May 12, 2017 7:50 pm UTC

so do we have to confirm?

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby Sabrar » Fri May 12, 2017 7:52 pm UTC

Not anymore, feel free to contribute.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby DethStalker » Fri May 12, 2017 7:57 pm UTC

(ok, but I guess I have I have to roleplay???)

Thou, I shall bow, to all thy characters before me.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby Sabrar » Fri May 12, 2017 8:00 pm UTC

#HBC | YOLOSWAG wrote:You came in and said Bessie was town.
Just to be perfectly clear, why did you infer this from my comment?

@LaserGuy: don't you think a scum-team of size 2 would be extremely weak in a game this big, especially if there's another scum-team as well?

@DethStalker: it is not necessary, whatever makes it more fun to you.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby LaserGuy » Fri May 12, 2017 8:38 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:@LaserGuy: don't you think a scum-team of size 2 would be extremely weak in a game this big, especially if there's another scum-team as well?


On it's own, to be sure. But two and two together? It would depend how they interact. Are they aware of each other? Do they win together or apart? Four co-aligned scum with two kills among them could be most formidable, even against a proportionately larger town. Four counteraligned scum, perhaps not. If we assume that town has a numerical majority at the outset, then town can be nine at minimum. If there are six scum, there can be at most one independent then, and likely none, which would be somewhat uncommon in these parts. Town is additionally hampered by the added chaos caused by chicanery among the votes. Scum is likely to be in a position to better exploit such confusion or may be able to manipulate the vote in ways that we are yet unaware of.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby Sabrar » Fri May 12, 2017 8:49 pm UTC

@LaserGuy: what is the difference between 'two and two together' and a simple 4-player scum-team, besides the additional kill that would make scum OP in a most extraordinary way?

Will LYLO/MYLO be announced?

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby SDK » Fri May 12, 2017 9:01 pm UTC

Fire and Ice Mafia is the standard balanced setup for two mafia teams. That's a 9-2-2 setup, so (with 16 players) a 10-3-3 setup would be pretty severely unbalanced against town. If there are multiple mafia teams, they likely do have 2 members each unless town has some crazy awesome powers to balance that (which is never a good way to approach a game from the outset). We don't even know if our second kill is a second team anyway - might just be an SK. The "factions" wording is not 100% clear on that.


Sabrar wrote:
SDK wrote:I am but a beggar, can you not see my beggar's clothes? What can I offer to such a finely dressed fellow as yourself? (This is a real question)
Why did you decide to reveal this info so early in the game, painting a huge target on bessie's head?

There were reasons, but no sweet fruit shall be born from discussion thereof. Fruit requires time before it is ripened, and my orchard will be harvested in its own time. Perhaps you will pluck them from me after my own death.

Sabrar wrote:
SDK wrote:You said my reaction was "interesting". Why did you find it interesting?
Because I assumed you were joking about the confirmation in your role-pm and I tried to figure out why.

Tried and failed?

Sabrar wrote:
SDK wrote:If you thought my sheepiness was concerning, why did you choose not to bring it up before?
Barely a day passed since day-start and I was away for most of it. Is this not early enough for you?

That remains to be seen.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby Sabrar » Fri May 12, 2017 9:09 pm UTC

SDK wrote:Tried and failed?
Tried and shelved for later when more data would be available.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby SDK » Fri May 12, 2017 9:13 pm UTC

Ha, fair enough.

I think DethStalker might be scum, by the way.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby BoomFrog » Fri May 12, 2017 9:20 pm UTC

I hardly need my coxcomb, it is clear to all that I am a fool indeed. I mistook our opening night to be next week, and surely the slings and arrows of the outside world have besieged me. I haven't even heard all the words that have been spoken but trust I will recompense before the curtain rises.
"Everything I need to know about parenting I learned from cooking. Don't be afraid to experiment, and eat your mistakes." - Cronos

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jimbobmacdoodle
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Fri May 12, 2017 9:34 pm UTC

Ok, so there are now two votes on DethStalker, including my own. I am going to guess at one of the following, since my guesses in the last game were apparently pretty accurate.
1) Somebody has a secret vote power, that is somehow compulsive.
2) DethStalker always appears to have an additional vote on himself. This may or may not actually count.
3) The vote by bessie is in fact targeting DethStalker, and the vote on Gopher is a phony.
4) My vote on DethStalker is actually two votes for some reason, probably related to a passive ability from DethStalker.
5) Probably something else entirely.

@DethStalker, would you care to comment on the voting situation with regards to the apparent additional vote on yourself?

I don't think at this point I'm going to get any further with this... Let's try this:

Unvote
Vote Gopher of Pern

An interesting point to note is that mpolo explicitly said in this post that there were 9 people not voting, when there were apparently 7 votes + the "nobody" on DethStalker down. I don't know quite what to make here. One thing I will say is that I may be suspicious of anybody who is not voting for SOMEBODY at day end, as it would be good to help clarify certain vote shenanigans, though I guess town!double voters etc might not want to reveal their hand this early. I definitely don't believe that a general claim/demonstration of all vote-manipulating abilities at this stage is worthwhile.

I'm not likely going to be doing much role-playing this game FYI, but I may occasionally turn out a bit of flowery speech.

SDK's confirmation of bessie this early on strikes me as odd. It may of course be a complete fabrication, and I can't help but feel slightly suspicious. Initially I wondered if he was in fact a lyncher for bessie (or her character). mpolo had lynchers in the last Shakespeare game, where there were hidden characters, who won as long as their target died before them (actually, we joined town and had to win with them to be precise). SDK would claim to know that bessie is town, in the hope that scum might bump her off for him with no effort. However, in this game, the characters are all known, which would make a lyncher's job seem quite easy, so I'm suspecting that there might not be any. Given Shakespeare II though, I fully expect there to be rather a lot of other indies (there were 8 players, of whom 4 started out as indies, although the two lynchers became town once the other died). Four or more would be entirely within the boundaries of possibility, though if there are two scum factions (as opposed to SK + scum), I expect there'll be fewer indies to balance things out a little.

@bessie, what dost thou sayest about this matter that SDK hath portrayed thee as town for certain?

I find it interesting that people have immediately jumped to two scum teams instead of the more traditional (around these parts) SK + scum team. I'd like explanations on why people think this, from LaserGuy, Gopher of Pern, Yoloswag, and anybody else who believes there to be two scum teams. If there are two anti-town factions (where faction is a co-aligned set of players with two or more to their number), there is no reason to assume that they both simply want to eliminate all opposition (e.g. Smalltown 2 had a faction that needed to survive to D6 to win). We cannot even assume that they are of the same size. I wouldn't be entirely surprised by two factions myself, but if there are I doubt they'll be mirrors of each other.

LaserGuy wrote:Firstly, I see that two votes were cast at days beginning. One from bessie on Gopher, the other unknown to Dethstalker. Surely this deserves some comment for it suggests some nefarious forces at work.
You say that this deserves some comment, yet you have made none on it yourself beyond this comment. Why is that?

BoomFrog, if this is going to be a repeat of your D1 shenanigans from Dark Tower, I'm going to be calling you out on it.
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Znirk
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby Znirk » Fri May 12, 2017 9:47 pm UTC

Spoiler:
dimochka: nontribution, self-vote. Later, another empty post. Gets townie points because reasons (I will explain later, but don't want to give scum ideas right now).

sirgabriel: possible overreaction to sabrar implying scum-have-daychat in what I read as a joke

SDK: "bessie is confirmed town" after Sabrar asks for her reads on multi-word-confirmers: WTF? 2-team nudgewink; later points out that one of the scum factions may be a loner.

Laserguy:
LaserGuy wrote:Second, I find SDK's assertion of bessie to be town to be most alarming, as it will require some heroic effort to keep her alive if this claim is true.

Scum:laser ersatz-daychatting to suggest his team should go for town rather than second scumteam?

Bard: not sure if 2 scumteams

Freezeblade: PM refers to supernatural scum powers

Gopher fishes for vote-screwing powers, Gabriel jumps on that. Bard agrees w/ Gabriel.

Laserguy: setup speculation, defends dimochka, frowns at SDK

I like Gopher for asking the "any vanillians?" question. I see a townie reason to ask this which scum members may not yet be aware of.

(jimbobbed by a ninja, but I can't stay to look at his post in detail. Sorry.)


I think we're all agreed Day One is hard,
Yet what I hear in the debate thus far
Hath led me to suspect of Gabriel
And Laser Guy, and to a lesser point,
I wonder at what Master SDK
Is up to when he shouts that Madge is town.

vote: Laserguy

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby DethStalker » Fri May 12, 2017 10:33 pm UTC

(Im character)
Thou, a noble, hated. Thou? Shall thy?

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SirGabriel
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby SirGabriel » Fri May 12, 2017 10:57 pm UTC

Znirk wrote:sirgabriel: possible overreaction to sabrar implying scum-have-daychat in what I read as a joke

For the record, I knew he was joking, and I was also (mostly) joking. The early bird gets the worm.

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LaserGuy
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby LaserGuy » Fri May 12, 2017 11:11 pm UTC

Znirk wrote:I think we're all agreed Day One is hard,
Yet what I hear in the debate thus far
Hath led me to suspect of Gabriel
And Laser Guy, and to a lesser point,
I wonder at what Master SDK
Is up to when he shouts that Madge is town.

vote: Laserguy


Madge is town? How curious.

Unvote Znirk

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Ok, so there are now two votes on DethStalker, including my own. I am going to guess at one of the following, since my guesses in the last game were apparently pretty accurate.
1) Somebody has a secret vote power, that is somehow compulsive.
2) DethStalker always appears to have an additional vote on himself. This may or may not actually count.
3) The vote by bessie is in fact targeting DethStalker, and the vote on Gopher is a phony.
4) My vote on DethStalker is actually two votes for some reason, probably related to a passive ability from DethStalker.
5) Probably something else entirely.


Surely it cannot be 4, as Dethstalker had his vote from the very beginning of the day, well before you voted for him. I'm curious as to why you would think this a possibility at all. 3 strikes me as exceedingly unruly as it suggests either bessie has two voting powers, both reflexive and automatic or some other player has a similar automatic power that can divert votes in some unusual way that was further triggered at day's open. We have no data to distinguish between the remaining cases, though Occam's razor suggests 2 to be more likely.

SDK's confirmation of bessie this early on strikes me as odd. It may of course be a complete fabrication, and I can't help but feel slightly suspicious. Initially I wondered if he was in fact a lyncher for bessie (or her character). mpolo had lynchers in the last Shakespeare game, where there were hidden characters, who won as long as their target died before them (actually, we joined town and had to win with them to be precise). SDK would claim to know that bessie is town, in the hope that scum might bump her off for him with no effort.


I don't follow this line of reasoning. Surely the worst thing for a canonical lyncher would be an explicit townie read on their target. How would they then lynch them? Such a move would make their target more difficult to lynch and more easy to be killed by mafia, a dreadful result for the lyncher.

I find it interesting that people have immediately jumped to two scum teams instead of the more traditional (around these parts) SK + scum team.


The opening flavor is suggestive of two kills, and four or five more experienced people seemed to accept this as the likely scenario. It seems perfectly reasonable to me. Do you have reason to believe otherwise?

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:Firstly, I see that two votes were cast at days beginning. One from bessie on Gopher, the other unknown to Dethstalker. Surely this deserves some comment for it suggests some nefarious forces at work.


You say that this deserves some comment, yet you have made none on it yourself beyond this comment. Why is that?


But I have. I explained earlier to plytho explicitly why I felt such things should be considered nefarious. To reiterate, I feel that generally random vote manipulation is injurious to town because it makes our best weapon, the lynch, more difficult and unwieldy to use. Particularly so as it provides advantage to scum who may be able to more easily manipulate the lynch against us. I do not have knowledge to comment on the origins of those votes specifically beyond what I have said already, and thus feel it quite premature to speculate further without having heard from bessie and DethStalker in particular.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby freezeblade » Fri May 12, 2017 11:33 pm UTC

Of note, for now and other weekends:

As I spend all weekdays in front of a screen for work, I tend to disconnect during weekends, and will likely not keep up during the weekend (including a low likelyhood of posts on a weekend). I play catch-up on Monday.

See you all on the other side, Monday!
Belial wrote:I am not even in the same country code as "the mood for this shit."

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby Gopher of Pern » Sat May 13, 2017 12:19 am UTC

My comment about the vote mechanics was mainly about the one or two visible vote manipulations: dethstalker having an extra vote on them, and bessie having an automatic vote on me.

Wouldn't it be better for town to know the details of them?
Is dethstalker simply a guilty looking townie who has 1 automatic vote on them? Or does someone have a secret vote on them?
Does bessie get an automatic vote on me? Is she a compulsive voter? Can she choose to change her vote?

I think town would benefit from answers to these questions.

Scum + SK is more likely, but we cannot rule out two different scum factions either. 10/3/3 doesn't seem too unbalanced, depending on powers. Even if town mislynches twice, and scum hits town, its 4/3/3 after 2 nights, with scum having to worry more about each other. But I would probably favour 10/4/1/1, with SK and possibly lyncher or jester. 9/4/1/1/1, with one survivor instead might also be in the works.

Also, apologies to the mod for not voting on a separate line.

Laserguy, what would be the difference between 2 groups of 2 co-aligned scum, and a 4 man scum team? Sabrar already asked this question, but it seems you have ignored it.

jimbob seems to present some possibilities that are extremely unlikely (as Laserguy has pointed out). I agree than an automatic vote on dethstalker is the most likely, but unless dethstalker confirms one way or another, it's just conjecture. Also interesting to note, jimbob mentioned that mpolo explicitly said 9 people not voting, but mpolo didn't mention how many not voting in the latest votals. I'm not sure what to make of that.
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Stare In My Soul
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BoomFrog
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act I opens

Postby BoomFrog » Sat May 13, 2017 12:58 am UTC

@GoP: If revealing the vote manipulation helps distinguish the lower powered town, then that helps the nefarious forces. Why would you suggest forcing any townie to claim D1?

@LaserGuy: This discussion of the vote manipulation was inevitable but it will help scum more then town to know the details. Let sleeping Bessie's lie.

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"Everything I need to know about parenting I learned from cooking. Don't be afraid to experiment, and eat your mistakes." - Cronos


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