Shakespeare Mafia III - Curtain Call

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Gopher of Pern
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act IV looks grim

Postby Gopher of Pern » Thu Jun 08, 2017 11:19 pm UTC

I find your claim the least believable.

Because it feels to me Sabrar has set out to get me as discredited as possible today. If I die, I will flip town, and that will look mighty suspicious.

Of course, this is all WINE, to get the scum second guessing who they kill. They have a few juicy targets.

Madge, Boomfrog was a tracker too. Every ability town has had has been geared to either find guild or supernatural (All town flips). Laserguy was the first to claim, and I think they made a blunder.
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LaserGuy
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act IV looks grim

Postby LaserGuy » Thu Jun 08, 2017 11:20 pm UTC

Madge wrote:I still don't trust GoP but I don't know what scum could target me without killing or blocking me. The rolecop thing makes sense but I haven't seen scum with a rolecop in donkey's. Which I guess means it's due?


FWIW, there was a scum rolecop in Dark Tower.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act IV looks grim

Postby Sabrar » Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:22 am UTC

It is imperative that all townies vote today!!!
SirGabriel wrote:

Madge wrote:

kalira wrote:

dimochka wrote:

plytho wrote:

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act IV looks grim

Postby Madge » Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:41 am UTC

kalira wrote:Compilation:
LaserGuy -- claims 1-shot tracker (no restrictions). Tracked plytho N3 (visited no one).
Gopher of Pern -- claims supernatural cop. Negative results on YOLO, BoomFrog, Madge. claims will be told name of supernatural scum tonight
plytho -- claims doc for Guild kills. Protected SirG, Sabrar, SirG.
Madge -- claims tracker (except for non-supernatural kills). Targeted bessie N2 (visited no one), GoP N3 (visited Madge).
dimochka -- claims 1-shot guardian against supernatural kill. Protected Sabrar N2.
Sabrar (v2.0) -- claims cop identifying Guild members. Negative results on SirG, GoP.
kalira -- claims inventor. Sent items to bessie N1, SirG N3.
SirGabriel -- confirmed mason with bessie.

Along with the rest of the cast:
Sabrar (v1.0) - Killed N1: one-shot doctor, ineffective VS supernatural
SDK – Killed N3: Wizard
BoomFrog — Killed N2: Tracker
bessie — Killed N2: Mason
jimbobmacdoodle — Killed N1: one-shot seer find out whether supernatural

DethStalker — Lynched D1: Guild unroleblockable
#HBC | YOLOSWAG — Lynched D2: Guild roleblocker
DGames | Bard — Lynched D3: Guild goon


(I added extra info in underlines)

OK, here's my thoughts on the claims.

UNTOUCHABLE TIER
SirGabriel - confirmed town, I'd like to see him claim the inventor's gift to 100% verify he was partnered with bessie but that's probably not worth scum knowing what's floating around the game

SOLID TIER
Sabrar: we need a cop, and his role makes sense
Plytho: Mirror image of SDK's role I believe
Dimochka: Mirror image of Sabrar1.0
Kalira: Did send inventions. Could be dangerous.

DUBIOUS TIER
LaserGuy - we've got some weird 1-shot roles so sure. Lack of restrictions is weird though.
GoP - I was with him (mirror image of sabrar) until the "guaranteed scum name after 3 town results" extra claim - seems too powerful this late in the game.
Madge (yes I'm putting myself here from others' point of view): Seems to not have a counterpart who tracks everything but non-guild kills.


GENERAL THOUGHTS:
Guild has an unroleblockable but town has no roleblocker (unless town RB is fake claiming, HA). So Ghosts (my made up name for the other scum team) almost certainly have a roleblocker.

SirG should test the invention he got last night, if he dies it will look badly for Kalira (flavour can be trusted after all, but it does mean scum can kill SirG and frame Kalira - but then they miss out on denying us cop results)

It looks like we don't have a doctor who can defend against Ghost kills, which is bad, because we don't get follow the cop right now do we?

I'm most willing to vote LaserGuy and GoP (duh). GoP targeting me and not killing me has me more inclined to trust him, so I don't know what to do exactly in terms of votes.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act IV looks grim

Postby Madge » Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:44 am UTC

Just went and re-read BoomFrog's role PM, and it's actually a mirror image of mine (can't see supernatural while I can't see mundane), so I'd put myself out of the dubious group into the middle group in my list above:

You can follow another player in the night to see who he visited. However, you are not capable of following supernatural beings, at least when they perform a kill. [You can see other supernatural actions, just not supernatural kills.]
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act IV looks grim

Postby Madge » Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:47 am UTC

All these mirror images except for Kalira's inventor is strange and makes me suspicious of Kalira all of a sudden.

I also wonder if mpolo balanced it by giving everyone mirror images and then assigning some of those to scum - but the scum flips have not been mirror images of the town flips or any of the existing claims, so I'm guessing not. Perhaps false claims (which would not be repeated in the flip PM???). It's strange. Enough to make me consider voting Kalira out of respect for the symmetry.

After lunch I might try and pair all the roles.

GoP's claim changing not to mirror Sabrar's exactly is very strange. Perhaps scum was told there were no cops so they had a way to false claim???? Except we had some real cops die...... though only one-shot ones...
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act IV looks grim

Postby Madge » Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:48 am UTC

(shouting into the void-----> ALSO SEE SDK I HAVE MADE TWO CONSECUTIVE POSTS THREE MINUTES APART WITH THOUGHTS IN THEM. THIS IS NORMAL FOR ME.)
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act IV looks grim

Postby Sabrar » Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:58 am UTC

Gopher of Pern wrote:That post was also put there as a bit of misdirection, so scum wouldn't think that I'm a cop.

I know we had our disagreement in the past about this issue but that is a prime example why you should not lie as Town. Luckily I don't think that's the case here.
BTW why do you have Madge as lock-town? Couldn't she be GF?

@Madge:
1. There is 50% chance that scum has Ninja. If that player is not LaserGuy then you won't see the kill.
2. Gopher of Pern will likely perform the kill otherwise because he is expendable.
3. I feel it is more important for you to prove your townieness to the others rather than hope to catch the third scum in an unlikely scenario. You look scummy to most players so scum is likely to keep you alive until the final 3, hoping that the other townie will vote you.
4. BTW we have no Cop remaining because Gopher of Pern is lying.
5. I'm not so certain that scum has to have a roleblocker due to semi-random setup.

Proposed plan for tonight: Actually Madge should just target plytho and plytho should target either Madge, Gopher of Pern or myself (with Madge claiming first in the morning). I will write out a complete scenario analysis in a couple of hours to show why that's a good idea.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act IV looks grim

Postby Madge » Fri Jun 09, 2017 4:39 am UTC

If GoP is remaining, then we have a "guild cop" but no corresponding "ghost cop", even though it looks like each role has a counterpart. Now this could not be true - intentionally added to make a full claim not work - but then GoP would have to know that "ghost cop" was a safe claim.

Worth a try:

Did scum get safe claims?

Hypothetically, if scum got safe claims, would they be detailed in the PMS that were published when they flipped?
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act IV looks grim

Postby Madge » Fri Jun 09, 2017 4:46 am UTC

Also, I'm not sure I believe you Sabrar on the "using a potentially scum catching power to clear me" plan - for starters, if we get into a 2v1 situation, you don't want *ME* voting the wrong way. Even if we assume nobody trusts my result, at least *I* can trust it.

Also: what happens if scum happens to kill the person I target to "prove my innocence"? A person they can now choose from the list you so handily gave them? And from your point of view, tomorrow I can just claim I targeted whoever scum killed - whether they were in your list of targets for me or not (since, you know, I am right now claiming I'm not going to follow your plan).

Finally, my role being a mirror of BoomFrog's is pretty solid I think, especially because nobody else seemed to remember that boomfrog was Guild-only tracker until I went looking for it. That said I could be scum who wanted to check that, or was told a safe claim, so maybe not THAT solid.

I'll comply with Sabrar's plan in that I'll post my result before my target, if alive, claims. But I won't choose my targets from Sabrar's (or anyone else's) list. Basically I'm going to target someone other than SirG, maybe even at random. We'll see what happens with the rest of the Day.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act IV looks grim

Postby Gopher of Pern » Fri Jun 09, 2017 4:52 am UTC

Madge, try to find scum. Unless you are godfather. In which case, damn you.

Stop listening to Sabrar. I am sure he is scum. There is no mention of 'enemy' in jimbobs role, which mirrors mine except for the 1-shot.

Vote: Sabrar
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act IV looks grim

Postby Sabrar » Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:10 am UTC

@Gopher of Pern: I ask you whether your role-pm mirrors my own in that it explicitly references both scum-factions. You confirm that. Now you state that your role-pm mirrors that of jimbob whose role-pm does not mention the Guild at all. Yes, you're 100% scum.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act IV looks grim

Postby Madge » Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:24 am UTC

Wait - laserguy says he tracked Plytho and Plytho visited nobody N3. Plytho claims he visited SirG N3. Am I the only one who noticed that contradiction?
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act IV looks grim

Postby Madge » Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:25 am UTC

kalira wrote:LaserGuy -- claims 1-shot tracker (no restrictions). Tracked plytho N3 (visited no one).
plytho -- claims doc for Guild kills. Protected SirG, Sabrar, SirG.


Like, I'm not misreading the above, am I?
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act IV looks grim

Postby kalira » Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:30 am UTC

Just got back from theatre and too tired to read atm, but I will make sure I have a vote down before end of Day. Y'all make this more difficult than trying to read The Sound and the Fury. In Greek.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act IV looks grim

Postby Gopher of Pern » Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:41 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:@Gopher of Pern: I ask you whether your role-pm mirrors my own in that it explicitly references both scum-factions. You confirm that. Now you state that your role-pm mirrors that of jimbob whose role-pm does not mention the Guild at all. Yes, you're 100% scum.


You never said anything about both scum factions. You said enemy. I have the word enemy, but only as part of my extra ability.

I have no idea what you are talking about.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act IV looks grim

Postby Sabrar » Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:42 am UTC

@Madge: it was immediately pointed out by plytho.
plytho wrote:The only way LaserGuy's claim might make sense if he's telling the truth and I was blocked or he was redirected to someone who didn't visit anyone. Otherwise he's lying.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act IV looks grim

Postby Gopher of Pern » Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:42 am UTC

Madge wrote:
kalira wrote:LaserGuy -- claims 1-shot tracker (no restrictions). Tracked plytho N3 (visited no one).
plytho -- claims doc for Guild kills. Protected SirG, Sabrar, SirG.


Like, I'm not misreading the above, am I?


No Madge. One of plytho or Laserguy must be scum. I'll vote for Laserguy, but I'm just as convinced that Sabrar is scum.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act IV looks grim

Postby Madge » Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:51 am UTC

I'll vote for Laserguy too. Plytho's claim is pretty solid and Laserguy's claim is odd.

Vote: Laserguy

For the record, my voting power is not going to change any votes today, barring exceptional circumstances. I will claim it tomorrow.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act IV looks grim

Postby mpolo » Fri Jun 09, 2017 6:51 am UTC

Madge wrote:Did scum get safe claims?

See "Flavor" in the inital post. No.
Last edited by mpolo on Fri Jun 09, 2017 6:52 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act IV looks grim

Postby mpolo » Fri Jun 09, 2017 6:51 am UTC

Nothing to see here.
Last edited by mpolo on Fri Jun 09, 2017 6:52 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act IV looks grim

Postby mpolo » Fri Jun 09, 2017 6:52 am UTC

Nothing to see here (hit quote instead of edit)
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act IV looks grim

Postby mpolo » Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:20 am UTC

While the kerfuffle came and went as I slept, I need to mention that as per rule 6:
You may not post verbatim or quote from your role PM or any other messages sent to you by the mod. Paraphrasing is fine.

Sabrar and Gopher of Pern have broken this rule; this is a warning, please do not use quoting of mod PMs in any way. (For the record, pretending to quote a PM from the mod is also against the rules.)
Sabrar wrote:In my pm it is explicitly mentioned that I am able to identify only 1 type of enemies to Town, not the other. Is this how yours is worded?

Gopher of Pern wrote:I do have the word enemy in my pm.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act IV looks grim

Postby mpolo » Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:24 am UTC

LaserGuy (hypothetically) wrote:Vote: Madge


Votals:

LaserGuy (2): Sabrar, Madge
Madge (1): LaserGuy
Sabrar (1): Gopher of Pern
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act IV looks grim

Postby plytho » Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:41 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:It is imperative that all townies vote today!!!
plytho wrote:


I'm here, catching up now and making up my mind. I intend to vote LaserGuy. Because of my vote restriction I might wait to put my vote down until later today.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act IV looks grim

Postby Madge » Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:45 am UTC

Given Laserguy conflicts your own experiences directly, and he seems a popular choice, how can you really entertain voting for someone else?

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act IV looks grim

Postby Sabrar » Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:46 am UTC

Gopher of Pern wrote:You never said anything about both scum factions. You said enemy. I have the word enemy, but only as part of my extra ability.

I have no idea what you are talking about.
Will reply after I hear back from the mod.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act IV looks grim

Postby Sabrar » Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:59 am UTC

Madge wrote:Also, I'm not sure I believe you Sabrar on the "using a potentially scum catching power to clear me" plan - for starters, if we get into a 2v1 situation, you don't want *ME* voting the wrong way. Even if we assume nobody trusts my result, at least *I* can trust it.
Having *any* confirmed townies in a 2v1 is already good, it reduces the chance of mislynch by 50%.

Madge wrote:Also: what happens if scum happens to kill the person I target to "prove my innocence"? A person they can now choose from the list you so handily gave them?
Let them. This means killing a non-confirmed townie with a useless power instead of someone who is actually a threat against them. I'm quite happy to take that trade.

Madge wrote:Finally, my role being a mirror of BoomFrog's is pretty solid I think, especially because nobody else seemed to remember that boomfrog was Guild-only tracker until I went looking for it.
The fact we don't mention something does not mean that we aren't aware of it (see plytho vs LaserGuy claims).

Madge wrote:I'll comply with Sabrar's plan in that I'll post my result before my target, if alive, claims. But I won't choose my targets from Sabrar's (or anyone else's) list.
At the end you do what you feel needs to be doing. I think my plan has a higher chance to succeed, ymmv.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act IV looks grim

Postby mpolo » Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:02 am UTC

It has been pointed out that Sabrar and Gopher may or may not have precisely quoted from their PMs, so may or may not have been technically within the "paraphrasing" element of the rules. The spirit of the exchange, however, was against the spirit of the rules.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act IV looks grim

Postby Sabrar » Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:11 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:Will reply after I hear back from the mod.
Seems I'm not allowed to continue this line of discussion. Rest assured that the fact that you lied (or 'misdirected') D2 would alone have been enough for me to catch you, my inquiries into how your pm was worded was just for going from 95% surety to 100%.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act IV looks grim

Postby plytho » Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:12 am UTC

Madge wrote:Given Laserguy conflicts your own experiences directly, and he seems a popular choice, how can you really entertain voting for someone else?

IGMEOY

I think it's a consequence of my confident vote. It makes me want to be really confident at the time I'm voting. As I said I am just catching up and don't know what might have been said. I'm confident LaserGuy is scum and I'm pretty sure I'll be voting for him. I'm just hesitant to put my vote down until I've properly read everything because I'm unable to switch my vote should a more preferable candidate emerge (unlikely but possible).

Also 'he seems a popular choice' isn't a good argument.

Now, back to reading and voting.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act IV looks grim

Postby LaserGuy » Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:24 am UTC

I doubt anybody really cares at this point, but it will be hard for me to keep up with unvoting every time somebody votes for me for the next couple of hours. So if I end up voting for plytho or whomever, it's not necessarily reflective of my feelings.

That said, this is actually reflective of my feelings
Vote plytho
Since he's clearly lying about his night action.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act IV looks grim

Postby plytho » Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:26 am UTC

I picked up these two things:

This post by Gopher makes it seem like he really wants to think LaserGuy is town but realises he can’t anymore.
Gopher of Pern wrote:FMPOV:

SirGabriel and Madge are town.

If Kalira is scum, Laserguy is town, and vice versa.

If Laserguy is town, plytho is scum. Vice versa.

I was initially thinking no one would false-claim unrestricted tracker, as everything else in the game is keyed to one side or the other. So it would have to be real. But I now think it might be a genuine mistake, by the reaction.


Madge wrote:UNTOUCHABLE TIER
SirGabriel - confirmed town, I'd like to see him claim the inventor's gift to 100% verify he was partnered with bessie but that's probably not worth scum knowing what's floating around the game.
I think the lack of counterclaim should be enough here. Do you really think there’s still a possibility of an unclaimed mason at this point? I really don’t see how town is helped in any way by this claim.

FoS: Madge for bringing this up.

Vote: LaserGuy

No need to unvote now I guess :)
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act IV looks grim

Postby Sabrar » Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:30 am UTC

In my opinion town!LaserGuy would have contributed a lot more today because he knows that with his mislynch town will immediately lose. This feels like scum giving up (though I cannot really fault him, rolling scum 3 times right from the start is very tough).

@Madge: I changed my mind. Last scum must be either you or plytho, with plytho looking more and more townie. You need to target him to clear yourself.

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act IV looks grim

Postby Gopher of Pern » Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:33 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:
Sabrar wrote:Will reply after I hear back from the mod.
Seems I'm not allowed to continue this line of discussion. Rest assured that the fact that you lied (or 'misdirected') D2 would alone have been enough for me to catch you, my inquiries into how your pm was worded was just for going from 95% surety to 100%.


Seeing as you haven't caught me, as I am town, you might let up on that.

I really can't see you making this mistake as town. So you must be scum. I'm just annoyed that I only started to doubt you this day.

You're probably bussing laserguy to get townie cred, and will leave me alive to discredit me tomorrow. If there is a third, it's likely dimochka.

I was about to vote for Laserguy, but plytho just did. I'll leave it there.

Whelp. Plytho/Kalira/Sabrar team? Sabrar did downplay the scum inventor.

Can anyone tell me what Sabrar has done to make him so townie this game? Honestly, he hasn't done anything that scum/Sabrar hasn't done.

Apologies to mpolo for that part of discussion.
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act IV looks grim

Postby Sabrar » Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:56 am UTC

Gopher of Pern wrote:You're probably bussing laserguy to get townie cred, and will leave me alive to discredit me tomorrow. If there is a third, it's likely dimochka.

Gopher of Pern wrote:Whelp. Plytho/Kalira/Sabrar team? Sabrar did downplay the scum inventor.

LOL. You're just throwing names out left and right, hoping something will stick.

Gopher of Pern wrote: and will leave me alive to discredit me tomorrow.

I was wondering what explanation you would bring up tomorrow to explain why you're still alive, especially after you were so sure that you'd die tonight. That's convenient, isn't it?

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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act IV looks grim

Postby Gopher of Pern » Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:13 am UTC

Yes, it's all wine. If we had another lynch, I'd say kill me now, just to prove you wrong. But we don't have that luxury.

Fact is, scum know I'm not lying. I have an ability that will out one of them. Of course, convincing you of that, is basically impossible.

Throwing out names? They're my best two guesses. Sabrar/Laserguy/Dimochka, or Sabrar/Kalira/plytho. Very faint chance that Madge is GF. But I doubt that.

I really hope it is the former, because we are lost if Laserguy is not scum.

Kinda wish there was a suicide button. I reckon my death tonight would help town more than anything. Not because I'm scum, but because it would clear everything up. Cmon, scum, kill me!
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Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act IV looks grim

Postby SirGabriel » Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:08 am UTC

Vote: Gopher of Pern

Madge wrote: SirG should test the invention he got last night, if he dies it will look badly for Kalira (flavour can be trusted after all, but it does mean scum can kill SirG and frame Kalira - but then they miss out on denying us cop results

I don't see any reason to announce whether I'm using my gift tonight. If I die, that doesn't necessarily mean anything, but if I die and so does someone else, it probably means the gift killed me (but I doubt that will happen, even if the gift is fake).

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Sabrar
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:29 pm UTC

Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act IV looks grim

Postby Sabrar » Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:22 am UTC

@SirGabriel: I've tried to show here why it's better to lynch LaserGuy first. It is important that Town does not divide their votes among multiple players because that allows scum to change at last minute and force a mislynch. With plytho unable to switch over to GoP (if he's Town), please change your vote to LaserGuy.

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mpolo
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2008 3:24 pm UTC
Location: Germany

Re: Shakespeare Mafia III - Act IV looks grim

Postby mpolo » Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:19 pm UTC

Pseudo LaserGuy wrote:Unvote; Vote plytho


Votals:

Gopher of Pern (1): SirGabriel
Sabrar (1): Gopher of Pern
LaserGuy (3): Sabrar, Madge, plytho
plytho (1): LaserGuy

2 people (kalira and dimochka) not voting. Deadline in 5 2/3 hours.
Image <-- Evil experiment


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