Stellaris - MOO3 the bettering

Of the Tabletop, and other, lesser varieties.

Moderators: SecondTalon, Moderators General, Prelates

User avatar
Izawwlgood
WINNING
Posts: 18686
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:55 pm UTC
Location: There may be lovelier lovelies...

Stellaris - MOO3 the bettering

Postby Izawwlgood » Tue May 10, 2016 2:44 pm UTC

Was up too late playing this lastnight. It's as far as I can tell quite excellent, with a heavy dash of role play thrown into the events and diplomacy. There are some great design features that I'm glad to see, and on /r/stellaris, one of the devs is actively responding to posted bugs, which is pretty cool.

One thing I absolutely adore is there's a quickbar on the side of the screen showing all colonies and fleets, and the 'what can these things do' menus are pretty intuitively laid out. I'm still trying to figure out a bunch of things, but I am super duper glad I purchased this game.
... with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet.

User avatar
Zohar
COMMANDER PORN
Posts: 8476
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:45 pm UTC
Location: Denver

Re: Stellaris - MOO3 the bettering

Postby Zohar » Tue May 10, 2016 3:18 pm UTC

That sounds interesting. I just saw it on Steam but and thought I might be interested, but didn't look anywhere. I'm currently playing an RPG (Tales of Zestiria), but I'm sure I could easily sink many hours in a game like this.
Mighty Jalapeno: "See, Zohar agrees, and he's nice to people."
SecondTalon: "Still better looking than Jesus."

Not how I say my name

User avatar
Jahoclave
sourmilk's moderator
Posts: 4790
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:34 pm UTC
Contact:

Re: Stellaris - MOO3 the bettering

Postby Jahoclave » Wed May 11, 2016 2:38 am UTC

I watched some Yogscast videos on it. Certainly a game that is on my goes on sale for half price list.

User avatar
Weeks
Hey Baby, wanna make a fortnight?
Posts: 2023
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:41 am UTC
Location: Ciudad de Panamá, Panamá

Re: Stellaris - MOO3 the bettering

Postby Weeks » Wed May 11, 2016 4:33 am UTC

200k copies sold in less than 24 hours. Jeeeeeeeeeeez.
TaintedDeity wrote:Tainted Deity
suffer-cait wrote:One day I'm gun a go visit weeks and discover they're just a computer in a trashcan at an ice cream shop.
Dthen wrote:FUCK CHRISTMAS FUCK EVERYTHING FUCK YOU TOO FUCK OFF

User avatar
Izawwlgood
WINNING
Posts: 18686
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:55 pm UTC
Location: There may be lovelier lovelies...

Re: Stellaris - MOO3 the bettering

Postby Izawwlgood » Thu May 12, 2016 2:51 pm UTC

There are some design flaws/imbalances, but it appears as though the devs are reading /r/stellaris and there have been two hotfixes since release patching bugs and AI and such. I take this as a very good sign.

So far I'm liking it, though I think combat is a bit shallow and the early game is sloooooooooooow. Still, the RP events that unfold are super fun and interesting.

As with all games of this sort, I feel it's sort of unfortunate how OP +research and +expansion is, and how detrimental -diplomacy is. I feel sort of forced to pick traits along these lines, and the diplomacy options aren't particularly well fleshed out to allow, say, a diplomatic spy race. Hopefully more stuff will get added to the game as they continue to build on it.
... with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet.

User avatar
Zohar
COMMANDER PORN
Posts: 8476
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:45 pm UTC
Location: Denver

Re: Stellaris - MOO3 the bettering

Postby Zohar » Thu May 12, 2016 3:38 pm UTC

That's another reason why I like to wait a bit before playing a game - in six months it will be cheaper, with fewer bugs, with more support for existing bugs, and with guides if needed.
Mighty Jalapeno: "See, Zohar agrees, and he's nice to people."
SecondTalon: "Still better looking than Jesus."

Not how I say my name

User avatar
You, sir, name?
Posts: 6983
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:07 am UTC
Location: Chako Paul City
Contact:

Re: Stellaris - MOO3 the bettering

Postby You, sir, name? » Tue May 17, 2016 7:09 pm UTC

The game is alright, but I think it has a few flaws.

The lack of espionage is one pretty big issue. Information is very important in warfare. Right now you're playing pretty much completely blind until you hit the declare war button. I have no idea about their fleet size, ship design, or fleet composition.

The extreme interstellar mobility is also weird. Most of my wars go like this: I move my army to the border and declare war. The enemy immediately blitzkriegs past my army and into the heart of my space empire, starts harassing mining stations and spaceports and what have you, and a tedious game of cat and mouse ensues as I chase their shit from system to system (which arguably would be funny to Yakety Sax), I eventually crush it, then go to their home system, kill the one corvette they've made since I destroyed their army, and then they surrender.

Or maybe I'm just doing it wrong. Could be it.
I edit my posts a lot and sometimes the words wrong order words appear in sentences get messed up.

User avatar
Izawwlgood
WINNING
Posts: 18686
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:55 pm UTC
Location: There may be lovelier lovelies...

Re: Stellaris - MOO3 the bettering

Postby Izawwlgood » Mon May 30, 2016 5:19 pm UTC

For what it's worth, r/stellaris is very active and the devs are taking note. Theres a lot of stuff in the pipeline, amd a lot of recognized issues.
... with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet.

User avatar
CorruptUser
Posts: 10472
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:12 pm UTC

Re: Stellaris - MOO3 the bettering

Postby CorruptUser » Thu Jul 27, 2017 5:42 pm UTC

So got back into it after a year. Wow, so much has changed. Liking the unity system a lot; some buildings are unlocked through this rather than alignment. Spiritual races now have the advantage over materialists due to unity and factions reasons, but I hate spiritualism for real world reasons. I want to start a new game, but I got the loop event in my game and it's pretty rare. And creepy; it was created by an actual horror author. Basically another dimension that should not be calls out to you, and gives access to two cool buildings for your colonies, though I only build the research one in all colonies (8 society + 5% happiness). Terraforming is now feasible, with a bit of tech and resources all my planets can now be Gaia worlds. Resources are a bit simplified now; just get it and you get the bonuses. Ships are a bit better balanced with specialty slots and all. Torpedoes are limited to cruisers and corvettes, for example.

Oh and humanoid is a species category now, so now you won't uplift humans into cats, but into Klignons.

User avatar
Xanthir
My HERO!!!
Posts: 5398
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:49 am UTC
Location: The Googleplex
Contact:

Re: Stellaris - MOO3 the bettering

Postby Xanthir » Mon Dec 31, 2018 5:12 am UTC

I finally bought this, right when they happened to push a huge economy rejigger in the 2.2 update. Luckily I like it a lot, and they're actively working on the few bits that still feel bad!

After playing my "tutorial" game thru to the end, I loaded up a fresh game with a Servitor machine empire, which afaict is kinda hard-mode machine gestalt, but my adorable little moth creators are so cute I don't mind. I *did* have have to restart once - an event suddenly dumped 15 fungus people on me, and I had to fight a war to break out of the containment my neighbors were accidentally deploying on me, so I had just way, way too many organics to take care of and ended up death-spiraling. This second try is *much* better; one side of me is backed up against a friendly Fallen Empire, and the other ends were wide open until 2300 when I finally started running into other empires. I've got three wormholes and a gateway in my territory, an L-gate not too far away, and plenty of nice cold planets to spread my little moth-babies around while we robots do all the hard work.
(defun fibs (n &optional (a 1) (b 1)) (take n (unfold '+ a b)))

User avatar
raudorn
Posts: 370
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:59 am UTC

Re: Stellaris - MOO3 the bettering

Postby raudorn » Mon Dec 31, 2018 9:31 am UTC

Oh yeah, Stellaris has sunk its claws into me recently as well. I'm still on my first playthrough and agree that it's wonderful how the game manages to weave a narrative around the events unique to each playthrough. It's a lot like Rimworld in this regard and probably a lot of other games too (like Paradox' other games).

The tutorial is integrated into the SP game mode, though I wish they would've explained the war mechanics a bit more. It took me waging four wars until I understood most aspects properly. Though that is a fun way to learn them, too. Like how I learned to take a look at the diplomacy screen before waging war. Nothing like a 20 year trench war to cool my galactic ambitions.

One thing I haven't groked yet is the impact of empire sprawl. I'm told to basically ignore it entirely as supposedly the increased tech cost is offset by the increased science production. But that's only true if the sprawl also includes new planets, right? Systems with mining and science stations produce some income, but it doesn't scale with pops and costs a fair amount of energy to maintain. I need to figure this out because I could easily double the amount of systems under my control and yet my sprawl is already causing hefty penalties on tech cost and leader hiring cost/upkeep.

User avatar
Xanthir
My HERO!!!
Posts: 5398
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:49 am UTC
Location: The Googleplex
Contact:

Re: Stellaris - MOO3 the bettering

Postby Xanthir » Tue Jan 01, 2019 3:56 pm UTC

Don't sprawl *unnecessarily*, but yeah, if it helps you grab a wormhole, a strategic resource, or some planets, feel free and don't worry about the penalty. I also grab good chokepoints if another empire is edging close, even if they're worthless otherwise.

And if you've got the starbase capacity to spare, don't forget to grab Artist, Curator, or Black Hole systems, as they have decent starhold buildings.
(defun fibs (n &optional (a 1) (b 1)) (take n (unfold '+ a b)))

User avatar
Xanthir
My HERO!!!
Posts: 5398
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:49 am UTC
Location: The Googleplex
Contact:

Re: Stellaris - MOO3 the bettering

Postby Xanthir » Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:55 am UTC

Aaaaaand there went the game.

Lessons for the future: if you're Rogue Servitor, don't take over planets without either bombing out as much of the population as possible, or making sure you have plenty of food, goods, and biopet space elsewhere in your empire to absorb them all. This one hurt real bad, but luckily I was able to recover reasonably.

Second lesson: don't poke the awakened Fallen Empire until you can put together a good 100k fleet.

Third lesson: I'm not sure *exactly* what triggered this, but getting the Gray Tempest when you open the L-System is actually *super good* as a robot; Gray is funny and powerful and I love him. (Free Titan-class ship, woo!)
(defun fibs (n &optional (a 1) (b 1)) (take n (unfold '+ a b)))

User avatar
Xanthir
My HERO!!!
Posts: 5398
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:49 am UTC
Location: The Googleplex
Contact:

Re: Stellaris - MOO3 the bettering

Postby Xanthir » Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:13 pm UTC

More lessons from me, the apparently devoted Rogue-Servitor player now:

  • robots *need* the +mineral and +energy trait. Most important things in the game for them. The +minerals civic is also *really* nice for ensuring you'll never have mineral problems ever.
  • biopets don't do a goddam thing except live in houses and generate unity, so specialize them accordingly; give them +unity and -housing, and maybe -goods. Most of the negative traits don't hurt them at all, so feel free to go wild on it if you want; -strength is free, and -growth is both a rare -2 and actually *actively useful* for you, since otherwise you'll be fighting against their growth most of the game anyway (especially early)
  • if you find you're next to the only mercenary clan, FOR GODS SAKE LOOK AT THEIR SHIP DETAILS AND BUILD TONS OF STARBASES AND DEFENSE PLATFORMS ACCORDINGLY. You *know* they're going to go Khan on your ass by 2350 or so, don't pretend like it's an unforseeable surprise when it happens
  • if you didn't heed the above advice, when they *do* go Khan on your ass, immediately contact them and surrender. The taxes from being a Satrapy hurt, but they sure hurt a *lot less* than losing all your core planets before you remember that surrendering is an option.
  • remember to set up nonagression or defend-independence pacts with your useful neighbors, even if you don't give a shit about them otherwise. You need to build Trust early to offset the "fucking robot scum" modifier you'll start with
  • I consider this an exploit and hope it's fixed in the future, but technically *you don't need any food*. Having 0 food just means your bio pop is less happy (who cares) and they get -75% growth (great!). Also, Organic Sanctuary + Maintenance Depot (especially after your civics power up the MD) is much, much better than 2x Drone Storage, even on your planets with no biopets at all. There's no reason to ever build a Drone Storage.

Anyway, this weekend I'm gonna start up attempt #4 at playing the Iricorp Service Network, aka Amazon! In! Space!, aka Fully Automated Luxury Space Communism.
(defun fibs (n &optional (a 1) (b 1)) (take n (unfold '+ a b)))

User avatar
raudorn
Posts: 370
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:59 am UTC

Re: Stellaris - MOO3 the bettering

Postby raudorn » Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:07 pm UTC

The year is 2507. Strike forces Wyvern and Cerberus from the Commonwealth of Man report that the last vessels of the Prethoryn invaders have been cornered and completely destroyed. The galactic community collectively release their breath in relief and take stock of who's left on the stage and where they stand.

The Xaplo Mediators, formerly the fallen empire the Xaplo Ancients, stand ahead of everyone else. Without their reawakening and entry to the Sol Entente, the galaxy would have been unable to repel the initial attack. While they control few systems, their advanced technology and their victories in repelling the invasion ensure their number one spot on the list.

The Commonwealth of Man, initially very reluctant to join the federation due to being busy vassalizing any non-human empires they could find, took over the de-facto leadership of the Sol Entente before the Xaplo Mediators joined. Apart from the two (former) fallen empires (the Xorothi Shard declined to do anything during the invasion), they were leading the galaxy in every regard, especially possessing a fleet mightier than all their allies and vassals combined. After about a hundred and fifty years of messing around clumsily, they seemed to get an understanding of what they were doing and started an exponential economic growth that did not seem to slow down even when the Prethoryn attacked. They are right on track to surpass even the Xaplo Mediators in time... but then someone decided that the game was done. Second place is not so bad for the first try!

User avatar
Xenomortis
Not actually a special flower.
Posts: 1445
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:47 am UTC

Re: Stellaris - MOO3 the bettering

Postby Xenomortis » Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:58 pm UTC

raudorn wrote:... but then someone decided that the game was done. Second place is not so bad for the first try!

I think the default "end-game" year is 2500 - so once there's no galactic crisis (Prethoyrn Scourge or the like), the game will declare a winner there (you can see the standings at any time under the "victory conditions" section in the Situation Log screen).
I didn't much like the previous victory conditions, but I think I like this new system even less (I was compelled to race towards the total annihilation an awakened empire less than decade before the victor announcement in my last game).

I've only played one game since 2.2, and it was as a Hive Mind - you have fewer mechanics to deal with in general as a Gestalt Consciousness, so it's a bit easier to get to grips with things whenever these big updates happen.
Main problem I have playing any biological gestalt is that gene-modding is so clunky (you're denied Synthetic Ascendancy (become robots) and Transcendence (become psychic), so you're pushed to Evolutionary Mastery) - templates are applied to species on a planetary basis, and pops do not seek optimal job allocations (I don't want my Nerve-Stapled Agrarian drones working on Research jobs whilst my Erudite Engineers work the fields) - this was a problem with the old tile-based system too, but at least I could move pops around a little bit (even though I had no control over growth).

End-game crises seem bugged - I received Prethoryn Scourge last game (historically the most terrifying in my experience), but they didn't appear to be interested in expanding. I got lucky and they spawned near an Awakened Empire (my neighbour) that had previously claimed the surrounding systems from a Fanatic Purifier - they traded fleets but then didn't actually conquer the worlds and move on. Just as well - I didn't realise the fleet refit times were so long now, and I was only 50% of the way through my fleet refit to fight them (started as soon as I received the Subspace Echoes event...) - a totally pointless refit it turned out.


Xanthir wrote:Third lesson: I'm not sure *exactly* what triggered this, but getting the Gray Tempest when you open the L-System is actually *super good* as a robot; Gray is funny and powerful and I love him. (Free Titan-class ship, woo!)

There are several possible outcomes to opening the L-Gates (you only get one) - the most common is the Gray Tempest, a sort of mini-crisis (Nanite fleets go forth and wreck everything) - you have to invade the L-Cluster to shut them down.
Gray itself is a much better outcome, but I've only ever had the Tempest...
Image

User avatar
Xanthir
My HERO!!!
Posts: 5398
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:49 am UTC
Location: The Googleplex
Contact:

Re: Stellaris - MOO3 the bettering

Postby Xanthir » Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:34 pm UTC

Yes, the Crisises are generally bugged at the moment. Basically 2.2 put together a lot of really great new systems, that need significant twerking and bugfixing before they're really properly usable.
(defun fibs (n &optional (a 1) (b 1)) (take n (unfold '+ a b)))

User avatar
raudorn
Posts: 370
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:59 am UTC

Re: Stellaris - MOO3 the bettering

Postby raudorn » Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:09 pm UTC

Xenomortis wrote:I think the default "end-game" year is 2500 - so once there's no galactic crisis (Prethoyrn Scourge or the like), the game will declare a winner there (you can see the standings at any time under the "victory conditions" section in the Situation Log screen).
I didn't much like the previous victory conditions, but I think I like this new system even less (I was compelled to race towards the total annihilation an awakened empire less than decade before the victor announcement in my last game).

Yeah, it was this victory scoring that turned me away from trying to just conquer everything. I noticed that the top non-fallen empire was pretty much only higher scored than mine because they were in a federation. More annoyingly, they were in a federation with the UNE, which I originally wanted to seduce into a fed. As xenophobic fanatic militarists, founding a federation with any other empire was not realistic so in the end I bit the bullet, switched to "Defensive wars only" and joined the Sol Entente, just so I got the victory points and could be best buddies with the UNE.

Given how crucial the awakened Xaplo were to defeat the invasion... well, probably a good thing. I was lagging behind the curve because in the beginning I didn't know how anything worked and still discovered new stuff all the time.

Speaking of bugs, I hope they will fix the performance issues in the end game soon. That first game was on a medium galaxy and became almost unplayable after 2400. I hear it's the pops causing recalculations every game day, but that's just speculation. For my second game I play on small and hope that helps.

rmsgrey
Posts: 3596
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:35 pm UTC

Re: Stellaris - MOO3 the bettering

Postby rmsgrey » Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:17 pm UTC

Semi-arbitrary end-game conditions are a mixed bag - on the one hand, managing the transition from long-term development to short-term points-grab is a significant strategic choice. On the other hand, the points-grab phase and the hard cut-off mean that having a star empire that would collapse the following turn when the treasury ran dry, the military stopped being paid, and martial law stopped holding everything together beats having a stable republic that would endure indefinitely, breaking the illusion that the game is about providing good governance. On the gripping hand, there has to be some end to the game, otherwise you end up running out of content and sort of dribbling to a halt.

User avatar
Xanthir
My HERO!!!
Posts: 5398
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:49 am UTC
Location: The Googleplex
Contact:

Re: Stellaris - MOO3 the bettering

Postby Xanthir » Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:11 am UTC

Yeah, just... don't give a shit about the "score" at the end. It's a meaningless point counter. Did you have a satisfying game that ended nicely? If so, you won.
(defun fibs (n &optional (a 1) (b 1)) (take n (unfold '+ a b)))

rmsgrey
Posts: 3596
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:35 pm UTC

Re: Stellaris - MOO3 the bettering

Postby rmsgrey » Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:30 am UTC

Xanthir wrote:Yeah, just... don't give a shit about the "score" at the end. It's a meaningless point counter. Did you have a satisfying game that ended nicely? If so, you won.

Which is fine for games that only display the final "score"; games that have some additional benefit to "winning" make that harder to ignore...

User avatar
Xenomortis
Not actually a special flower.
Posts: 1445
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:47 am UTC

Re: Stellaris - MOO3 the bettering

Postby Xenomortis » Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:16 am UTC

rmsgrey wrote:Semi-arbitrary end-game conditions are a mixed bag - on the one hand, managing the transition from long-term development to short-term points-grab is a significant strategic choice. On the other hand, the points-grab phase and the hard cut-off mean that having a star empire that would collapse the following turn when the treasury ran dry, the military stopped being paid, and martial law stopped holding everything together beats having a stable republic that would endure indefinitely, breaking the illusion that the game is about providing good governance. On the gripping hand, there has to be some end to the game, otherwise you end up running out of content and sort of dribbling to a halt.

Suddenly forming a Covenant with The End of the Cycle is a totally reasonable thing to do. :wink:
Image

User avatar
Xanthir
My HERO!!!
Posts: 5398
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:49 am UTC
Location: The Googleplex
Contact:

Re: Stellaris - MOO3 the bettering

Postby Xanthir » Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:01 am UTC

rmsgrey wrote:
Xanthir wrote:Yeah, just... don't give a shit about the "score" at the end. It's a meaningless point counter. Did you have a satisfying game that ended nicely? If so, you won.

Which is fine for games that only display the final "score"; games that have some additional benefit to "winning" make that harder to ignore...


There... is no benefit to "winning" in Stellaris, so I'm not sure what this is in reference to.
(defun fibs (n &optional (a 1) (b 1)) (take n (unfold '+ a b)))

User avatar
Xanthir
My HERO!!!
Posts: 5398
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:49 am UTC
Location: The Googleplex
Contact:

Re: Stellaris - MOO3 the bettering

Postby Xanthir » Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:06 am UTC

In other news, today's game saw the two mercenary clans spawn next to each other, and wedged between the two fallen empires. When the Khan spawned, they drove their fleet right into the remaining mercenaries, and immediately lost. Built the second fleet, drove it at the other mercenaries again, immediately died again. Khanate crisis done and dusted without me having to lift a finger!

The Khanate successor state took their revenge, tho, and wiped out the remaining mercenary systems. ^_^
(defun fibs (n &optional (a 1) (b 1)) (take n (unfold '+ a b)))

rmsgrey
Posts: 3596
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:35 pm UTC

Re: Stellaris - MOO3 the bettering

Postby rmsgrey » Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:19 pm UTC

Xanthir wrote:
rmsgrey wrote:
Xanthir wrote:Yeah, just... don't give a shit about the "score" at the end. It's a meaningless point counter. Did you have a satisfying game that ended nicely? If so, you won.

Which is fine for games that only display the final "score"; games that have some additional benefit to "winning" make that harder to ignore...


There... is no benefit to "winning" in Stellaris, so I'm not sure what this is in reference to.


There's a Steam achievement. Not a large benefit, admittedly, but an additional incentive to pay homage to the arbitrary declaration of victory.

User avatar
Xanthir
My HERO!!!
Posts: 5398
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:49 am UTC
Location: The Googleplex
Contact:

Re: Stellaris - MOO3 the bettering

Postby Xanthir » Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:21 pm UTC

Sure. Once. If you care about steam cheevos (which, I'll admit, I do too), you can cheese it with a fast easy game and then never worry about it ever again.
(defun fibs (n &optional (a 1) (b 1)) (take n (unfold '+ a b)))


Return to “Gaming”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests