Crossover Mafia | Game!

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bessie
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby bessie » Sun Sep 10, 2017 7:14 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote:@Ninja Spak: Both are influenced by meta reads. They are both players who tend to over share as town and they are both pretty bad at inventing plausible fake claims. Madge is also a bit... mmm... stream of consciousness-y. If she is scum it will probably be pretty obvious soon.
Agree (strongly) on Madge. Agree with sharing part on mpolo. Do not agree that he would be bad at inventing a plausible fake claim, but I can’t think of any game where he has done so.

Question for DGamers: Does Overswarm provide safeclaims to scum?

I like this post by FrozenFlame. Agree with most of it.

Don’t like this post by jimbobmacdoodle.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:@bessie - applying pressure is fine, but it has to be for reasonable reasons, in my opinion, or I see it as suspicious. IIRC, EGW applied pressure on Sabrar for scum reads, but not voting (note, this might be slightly incorrect, but that was the gist of it, I believe).

Wording arguments rarely produce any meaningful results, and usually cause mass distraction from useful scum hunting.

I want to address this. Context for reference.
Spoiler:
bessie wrote:Not happy with this post by jimbobmacdoodle.
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Evil George Washington - didn't like his complaint about wall posts, but then his subsequent quick-fire multi-posts (which I don't like personally). I think his pressure on Sabrar is not reasonable, particularly the lack of vote part, given how early in the Day it is.
If applying pressure is unacceptable, what would you consider reasonable D1 content?

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Gamma Emerald - suggests mpolo to be a safe lynch. Seems a bit random a comment, if I'm honest. Not sure, but perhaps trying to plant an idea in town's mind, that we should lynch him, but without pushing too much?
I don’t understand your comment. Gamma Emerald did more than plant an idea, he straight out said mpolo would be a safe lynch. Are you trying to plant an idea about Gamma Emerald?

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:#HBC | Zyth - As noted above, I like what bessie and others(?) have said about his opening post basically trying to announce he is town, but without explicitly saying it. Semi-subtle manipulation attempt? He also seems to be jumping on minor bits of terminology and blowing them out of proportion (see heuristically_alone initial vote reasoning).
And what’s wrong with jumping on minor bits of terminology and blowing them out of proportion? You just described the greater part of my playstyle. :D

To begin with, you didn’t answer the first question. If applying pressure is unacceptable, what would you consider reasonable D1 content? Your answer, applying pressure is fine, but it has to be for reasonable reasons, is a restatement of the question.

Moving on to the third part of that quote, let’s say I strongly disagree. Scum can and do get caught based on a careless sentence or even a misplaced word. See this example. jimbob made a “throwaway” remark about changing the setup. I accused him of knowing more than he should about the setup, and this contributed to me tunneling on him all of D1. Maybe that isn’t the best example, but I don’t want to get too distracted looking up old games. Suggestions for further reading: SDK is famous for picking out scum based on their confirmation posts.

Maven89 wrote:It's midnight where I am and I just got home, I managed to skim through what's been posted, I'll post something. Of value tomorrow, but until then, unvote:power whale or whatever, the whale guy. I'll post more about his read list tomorrow, but if he keeps up with what he just did then I will oppose his lynch day 1. If anyone still wants to lynch him speak up now
Very interested in your follow up to this.

Madge. :lol: I’ll think about it, but since we need to hammer, ensuring a lynch comes first.

Re: lurkers/modprods/replacements. Normal xkcd method is the lurker has 24ish hours to respond to the modprod. If the lurker fails to respond or has multiple prods, they are replaced or modkilled. To avoid modkills, a mod will often allow zombie replacements (a dead player is allowed to replace if they have no extra information meaning they are town/non mason and they haven’t read spoilers in the Gojoe thread). I know YOLOSWAG is very against zombie replacements (see discussion with mpolo regarding zombie replacements here and this). Note: see opening post for how replacements will be handled this game. There is one replacement available (I’m not sure where plytho got two).

If Dark Horse doesn’t post soon, I think that it would be reasonable to request mod clarification on how they intend to handle it.

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plytho
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby plytho » Sun Sep 10, 2017 7:30 pm UTC

bessie wrote: There is one replacement available (I’m not sure where plytho got two).
the second post of this has LaserGuy and amrock as replacements.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby plytho » Sun Sep 10, 2017 7:30 pm UTC

EBWOP.: this thread
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Evil George Washington
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Evil George Washington » Sun Sep 10, 2017 7:33 pm UTC

Zen, you can move your vote to your top scum read now. I'd like to see where you vote and why.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Sabrar » Sun Sep 10, 2017 7:35 pm UTC

Evil George Washington wrote:If a person opens saying that my play is different then usual, I then ask them how it is different. Reason I ask him is because in my last game I have done the same exact thing, and I'm not giving in game examples of my play here. I just ask him what is different about it to see why he would say that. Then if he responds I'd explain my thought process when posting so he can see what I was thinking in the current time.
Ok, so that wasn't a rhetorical question. Felt that way, good to clear up.

Evil George Washington wrote:I know it'd be morning for you but when I say 'good night' I am saying good night to the thread since it's night for me.
Fair enough, Sabrar. Have a good night. I'll be sleeping soon too, then I have work.
Totally doesn't read that way to me however I can't fathom a reason why you'd lie about such a minor thing.

Evil George Washington wrote:I engage you because I want to see what's in your head. I like to bounce ideas with town reads, and I like to work together with them.
I get that.

Evil George Washington wrote:You feel weird, weird how? Do you think how I engage Zyth is weird? Because I think it's the same type of interaction.
I agree. Let me explain again. You are the only player who seriously engaged me multiple times about different subjects. Therefore I felt you paid more attention to my content than the others (perhaps bessie excluded :D ). So when I saw signs that I interpreted as you not reading it I became curious.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby bessie » Sun Sep 10, 2017 7:43 pm UTC

Evil George Washington wrote:Peaceful Whale - I think Peace Whale is putting his foot in his mouth far too many times to be a strong candidate for mafia. He also seems eager and aloof, while being playful. I think this supports the thought that he is newbie town with no hidden motives. Same as before. Bessie mentions that he may be trying to pretend to be a noob and a certain detail seemed convincing but I'd need more to reconsider.
This is a reasonable point. Also, I would think that if he is mafia, his team would be coaching him more in Daychat. Unless the rest of the scum team is absent, and he’s trying to do this on his own.

I like Evil George Washington’s reads list (style, no fluff, what he selected as important to mention, and how he supports his conclusions). Doesn’t necessarily mean I agree with everything. Will think about it.

Znirk wrote:Town points for that. Though not necessarily in the game :)
:lol:

Znirk, mafia has daychat.

plytho, noted. Znirk reminded us he doesn't have daychat. :)

Sabrar wrote:During my second game here we had 3 players not posting anything D2 (2 of them were scum). Town was totally indecisive and we mislynched and lost in the end. Ever since that game I'm a-okay with lynching lurkers anytime.
I totally wish I had a few hours to confirm or deny this. :P

Sabrar’s reads – deserve my full attention. Will return to him later.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Evil George Washington » Sun Sep 10, 2017 7:46 pm UTC

Sabrar: On the good night in that case, I assumed you were going to sleep. Yet, notice the time. I shouldn't have been up, but I too, like yourself, get too engaged with the game and stay up later then usual. I always have the problem of sleeping in the morning, and then after, going to work. (It was like 4am for me) Understandable that you'd want to dig deeper on me possibly not reading thoroughly. Make no mistake, I do skim walls. Sometimes I don't have time to read walls thoroughly, since I skim at work.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Sabrar » Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:10 pm UTC

bessie wrote:I totally wish I had a few hours to confirm or deny this. :P
Takes ~5 minutes max. Forum search with author=me me me and string=lurker* Only 63 matches (I guess it will be 64 with this post) but you can disregard the first dozen due to them happening earlier. Context is easy from skimming it.

@Evil George Washington: ok, will keep that in mind.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Evil George Washington » Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:14 pm UTC

bessie wrote:
BoomFrog wrote:Question for DGamers: Does Overswarm provide safeclaims to scum?


I don't remember. Always been town in OS games. Others might have a better answer.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby bessie » Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:29 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
bessie wrote:I totally wish I had a few hours to confirm or deny this. :P
Takes ~5 minutes max. Forum search with author=me me me and string=lurker* Only 63 matches (I guess it will be 64 with this post) but you can disregard the first dozen due to them happening earlier. Context is easy from skimming it.

Nope, doing it that way would not lead to an unambiguous evaluation, and would certainly not be as entertaining. I would need to read through your old games, establish if you stated that you would be OK with a lurker lynch, and determine if your actions were consistent with your statement. I would also need to take in to consideration your alignment and the lurker’s alignment, and whether or not the lurker lynch actually happened or if the willingness to lynch a lurker was WIFOM. :P

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Evil George Washington » Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:32 pm UTC

Bessie I am interested in what you disagree with reference to my reads. (And the ones that you do agree with) Although it'd be easier if you just mentioned them in your own read list so you aren't bogged down.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby plytho » Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:36 pm UTC

bessie wrote:Question for DGamers: Does Overswarm provide safeclaims to scum?

Zyth said so here (near the end of the fourth paragraph).
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby bessie » Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:44 pm UTC

Ok, I’ve been screwing around with this for four hours already today, and I really need to go out for a few hours. When I get back I will give myself a time limit to make a reads list. This will force me to do it and post whatever I have, complete, incomplete, poorly worded, full of grammatical errors, and quite possibly containing a few insightful flashes of brilliance. :)

Ninja’d. Great, another distraction! I’ll try to skim that game tonight, thanks!

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Evil George Washington » Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:46 pm UTC

Warning: It's very long so try to do the reads list / anything else before you click! :lol:

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Evil George Washington » Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:47 pm UTC

Short answer from looking at the claims: Yes, OS does provide safe claims.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby SirGabriel » Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:16 pm UTC

Since I'm clearly not going to be able to keep up with all these posts, and it would be difficult to make a good reads list even if I cared who's scum (which, at this point, I don't), and I've been thinking about claiming ever since I got my role PM, I might as well claim now.

I am GLaDOS. I am, effectively, a survivor (I have two win conditions and I win if I accomplish either of them; surviving until the end seems like the easier of the two). I'm also a bomb, which will hopefully discourage the usual kill-anyone-who-claims-independent strategy. Note that my bomb doesn't just go off if I'm nightkilled, it also goes off if I'm lynched.

I have another power as well; I don't see any reason to claim it now, but it could potentially be very helpful to town if I survive to endgame.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Peaceful Whale » Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:22 pm UTC

Wait, so if you're lynched, who dies?
My meta for future reference
Spoiler:
cemper93 wrote:Your meta appears to be "just writes whatever is on his mind and doesn't remember what happened more than five hours ago"

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Sabrar » Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:23 pm UTC

WTF? Bomb that kills everyone on the lynch? Or is it just the person who hammers? First seems like way too swingy to be included in the game. Anyway whole role seems stupid as why the hell wouldn't you claim it if ever in doubt? Unless there are safe-guards in place against such a claim? then best to leave it alone today.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Evil George Washington » Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:32 pm UTC

Sir Gabriel: Since you don't care to scum hunt can you proxy your vote to mine, Sabrars, Bessies, or Mavens?

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Sabrar » Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:52 pm UTC

Zen: Let me preface my view on her by letting you know that I don't like lying Town even if done for noble purposes (another reason why we lost Shakespeare). This includes false-claims, misdirects, basically anything where you don't say what you actually think. This is because it's too easy for scum to fall back on this and claim some gambit when caught in a lie or an untenable pov.
When I question the seriousness of her entry it appears to me that Zen is not interested in giving a straight answer (which makes this funny). Being uncooperative from the start suggests Jester to me which is later debunked.
Reading through her ISO what I don't see is a natural progression as she seems to jump from one target to another. Starts by calling PW scum, somewhat backtracks here and doesn't really mention him later. Goes after h_a instead, needles him for quite some time, suddenly picks 3 other names to lynch, deliberately not Dark Horse. Votes Dark Horse anyway but already declares that she has a sure scum-read so that vote doesn't mean anything.
At best a neutral read if this is her usual style, strong scum-lean otherwise.

heuristically_alone: lots of small posts to begin with. This is a sentiment he expressed before (as Town) so Zen's case is not justified.
heuristically_alone wrote:I want to read Zen as scum, but really it is closer to neutral.
I don't like this wording. It reads to me (given the circumstances) as "I'd really like to put Zen in the scummy pile but then people would say I'm OMGUSing so I better put her as neutral for now."
Second part of this feels unnecessary. Makes an off-hand comment about possible scum!Madge which doesn't seem to serve any purpose other than planting a suggestion. Few more reads with the same wording re:Zen.
Small pings give me a slight scum-lean on him, but he has very little content.

jimbob:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:PeacefulWhale looks more like his second (i.e. scum) game than his first (i.e. town) game currently,
I would need to go back and check but the way I remember he looked equally scummy to me in both games (the reason why I townread him in the second), so this comment looks out of place. 3 mentions about having 'no more time'.
Later he is still wishy-washy about him, definitely looks like hedging. Also hedging about Zen. Read on moody looks weird, he remembers enough of his earlier claims to know that moody is more active than usual but doesn't remember that moody is almost always the first to make a read-list as either alignment so gives him townie-points for it?
Lack of content is most likely due to irl as stated and not alignment-indicative but the above gives me a scum-lean on him.

Madge: Town. :lol:

Will continue list tomorrow, can react on phone for a short while.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby SirGabriel » Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:51 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:WTF? Bomb that kills everyone on the lynch? Or is it just the person who hammers? First seems like way too swingy to be included in the game. Anyway whole role seems stupid as why the hell wouldn't you claim it if ever in doubt? Unless there are safe-guards in place against such a claim? then best to leave it alone today.

No, it doesn't kill everyone. It's either the first on the wagon or the hammer, I'm not saying which just in case there are vote-manipulating powers in play.

Evil George Washington wrote:Sir Gabriel: Since you don't care to scum hunt can you proxy your vote to mine, Sabrars, Bessies, or Mavens?

I don't see any good reason for me to vote with any particular player, but I'm happy to join any large wagon to prevent a no lynch.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Znirk » Sun Sep 10, 2017 11:04 pm UTC

Znirk wrote:- Plytho: Unspecific ping. I'll need to reread him isolated, but no time now.

On reflection, I think my mild queasiness about Plytho stems from his ongoing discussion of Peaceful Whale.

As for myself: I find Whale hard to read through all the stream of consciousness spamming, but in my opinion he is probably not scum. I guess that means I broadly concur with Plytho, who concedes that a few Whale moments could be read as scummy, but as far as I can tell finds that most indications point to Not Scum.

My problem with this, I think, is that Plytho seems to support other players' tunneling on this issue. He keeps getting dragged back into this discussion even though at this point his answers boil down to "dude, we've been over this". Helpfully trying to make people understand his point of view, perhaps, but perhaps just using the opportunity to generate posts without actually saying much.

But on the whole, I think this is more my subjective reaction than any fault of Plytho's. I'll keep an eye on him, but not call scum on this basis alone.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Evil George Washington » Sun Sep 10, 2017 11:13 pm UTC

How the reads list with who you sliced it up from coming, Peace Whale?

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Peaceful Whale » Sun Sep 10, 2017 11:14 pm UTC

Okay, went through, a lot of my reads list were impressions I got from other people's reads lists. This is what I already posted, for evil washingtons question.


plytho - defiantly doesn't feel like last game Plytho, probably not scum recruit. His posts are more confident, and hasn't tunnels anyone.
(My own words)

Evil George Washington - besides the fact that he has evil in his name, he's not all that bad. Decent content.
(My own words)

Maven89 - Honestly pretty decent, nothing that he's said has particularly struck me as scum or town. But on the townie side.
(Kinda my own words, he's townier than moody because of how plytho ranked him)

Bessie - I don't trust myself to read Bessie, the only thing I've noticed is she's slightly more quieter than usual, I feel like she is normally more active, it could be our different time zones, or she is just catching up with her reading. @Bessie, this isn't like last time when I mentioned roleblocker because I am that, I latterly just read the post were GlaDos was mentioned. And I thought that she was a suicide bomber.
(Bessie is kinda my own read, she and Sabar are pretty alike in my mind)

heuristically_alone - I played with him when we were scum buddies, I'd bet a pretty penny that he's not scum... though his posts are kinda iffy, but not that much. Did get weird when fingers were pointed his way. But so did I.
(Several people pointed out his weirdness)

mpolo<- did I skip him? Oh well

Madge- very weird claim, could be scum trying to make it easier to save scum buddies, also seems to put them too close to hammer, if I were scum I'd withhold this till later, getting me that close to hammer would be risky. Probably town.
(Many people complimented this claim, their response were trashed together to make this)

BoomFrog... I can't really read her/him, like Bessie and Sabar in my mind. Old veteran.
(Myself)

Sabrar, No one can judge him this early. But I want that funny example Sabar.
(Didn't see the funny example)

Spak:not much content, so I can't judge.

jimbobmacdoodle I don't think I've seen this guy yet.
(Have I get?, a little)

moody7277. Moody always seems scummy to me, it may be because of my bias, but that's it. Other than that he's pretty townie.
(I just think moody is a scummy name :P)

#HBC | Zyth I don't like his early call on me at all, to my knowledge I don't appear to be scum to a cop, it feels weird, but may because they come from a different fora. But seriously, saying xxx is scum is pretty weird unless you're cop. Was he trying to pressure me?
(A veteran, I don't trust to judge)

Frozenflame<- skipped them too

Znirk- I still can really tell yet, pretty neutral.
Gamma Emerald townyish side of neutral, I like their input.
SirGabriel- not all that active, like znirk, but a little scummiest.
Red Ryu - Very little content, bassicly votes for me and puts ambiguous questions. Could be trying to distract town. And voted for me with almost no reason, could be pals with boomfrog, that could explain why they jumped on my little wagon.
Dark Horse - Very scummy, not a single post, but I saw him online once earlier, I'm all for lynching the lurkers.
(My own, but many people had said this)

() are what I was kinda thinking.
My meta for future reference
Spoiler:
cemper93 wrote:Your meta appears to be "just writes whatever is on his mind and doesn't remember what happened more than five hours ago"

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Peaceful Whale » Sun Sep 10, 2017 11:15 pm UTC

I really get my opinions from other reads list, so it's all mashed up, I can't tell you who I specifically stole it from. But it's pretty obvious
My meta for future reference
Spoiler:
cemper93 wrote:Your meta appears to be "just writes whatever is on his mind and doesn't remember what happened more than five hours ago"

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby bessie » Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:31 am UTC

All right, reads list! My goal is to try to plough through this and get a read down on every player. If I have time later tonight, I will come back and expand my reads on some of the more interesting/active posters.

Note: You’re all interesting to me! When playing mafia, I use the work “interesting” to indicate something that caught my interest or to indicate that I don’t think something you said is quite right! So being on my “interesting” list is not necessarily a good thing!

Pre-post edit: Two hours later and I didn’t make it. Here’s what I have so far, I started with what I believed would be the quickest ones. Still determined to finish this tonight.

Dark Horse – After what I’ve heard about DGames culture, I think his replacement is going to have a tough job.

SirGabriel – I have no reason not to accept his claim for now. SirGabriel, please don’t waste your vote. If you have no candidates, vote for Madge, and move your vote toward deadline if we need it to hammer.

mpolo – RL lurking reason. We tend to give people a lot of flexibility for RL excuses, and players are expected to be truthful about RL issues. mpolo can be trusted in this area and should ask for a replacement if he feels an issue will affect the game. Not happy that he claimed, undecided if he is telling the (entire) truth. His claim did generate some interesting content. He’s not on my lynch list for today.

#HBC | Red Ryu – Has RL reason for low participation this weekend. I can accept that (and weekends are usually low activity overall anyway). But his previous content sucks. Almost all his content is one liners pushing for a Peaceful Whale bandwagon. The only positive thing I see in his content is that he speaks doggo. :) I won’t object to his lynch.

Madge – Cautiously accepting her claim for now, because there’s really no reason not to accept it. She’s probably not a lynch candidate today anyway, and if she’s scum we’ll probably catch her for reasons alluded to by BoomFrog here. And if Madge is town, she will be a good player to have around in later days because her late game analysis is usually pretty good.

Spak – Needs some more content, and needs to come back and update his read on BoomFrog, now that BoomFrog has offered explanations for some of the things in Spak's read of him. And some reads on other players would be nice too, I don’t see a clear opinion on anyone else. Slight scum lean.

Gamma Emerald – I don’t like this at all:
Gamma Emerald wrote:
bessie wrote:
Gamma Emerald wrote:@Zyth: I think his main issue is being called scum not being scumread. He just used bad wording.
Why not let heuristically_alone explain his issue himself?

I would have if he had shown he could do it, but he was not acknowledging the main issue I saw.
I haven’t decided if Gamma Emerald is defending a scum buddy or just being patronizing. I don’t know him yet, it would be helpful if he would make some more posts. I’ll need to come back to him after he posts some more content. Scum lean for now.

Znirk – I like his opening post. Like his second post. He did allude that he doesn’t have daychat, but I checked the rules and I didn’t see it mentioned, so it’s a null tell because he either really didn’t know or scum!Znirk checked to make sure he could safely make that post. I like his style. I like his poke at BoomFrog. I like this dig at Sabrar (but I like any dig at Sabrar):
Znirk wrote:- Evil George: I like what I see. Active, engaged, asks questions and follows up. A bit like Sabrar if Sabrar was any good at scum-reads.
I think his read of plytho is a reasonable read for him to have. Leaning town on Znirk.

Maven89 – Meta/setup discussion, prods a few other players, flips his stance on Peaceful Whale, good point re Madge’s claim, like the pressure he’s applying to other players, there’s a lot of real content packed in his posts (not much fluff).Please follow up on this:
Maven89 wrote:It's midnight where I am and I just got home, I managed to skim through what's been posted, I'll post something. Of value tomorrow, but until then, unvote:power whale or whatever, the whale guy. I'll post more about his read list tomorrow, but if he keeps up with what he just did then I will oppose his lynch day 1. If anyone still wants to lynch him speak up now
Also, please provide an updated read of BoomFrog, now that he has responded to you.

moody7277 – moody is (for me at least) one of the most difficult players to read on this forum. I will start out the same way I start every read of moody: I always read moody as scummy, but if he’s town, his reads will be probably be quite accurate. He is an experienced and excellent player. Unfortunately, moody will not become easier to read as the game progresses, which is why I copped him the last game we played together. I do not like his automatic acceptance of mpolo’s claim and his post dedicated to demonstrating how mpolo’s claimed power could be useful to town (trying to force a town read on mpolo?). All moody’s content is entirely within his meta (pfft, whatever that means). I don’t want to lynch him but can’t argue against his lynch.

Peaceful Whale – already discussed by me in detail. I’m leaning scum, or overeager newbie town, or independent. Well that’s pretty useless. Peaceful Whale, regardless of your alignment, you’re doing a great job keeping up and contributing. I recommend that for now, you do not claim or discuss your power. Now go study for your tests, because school comes before games. I’ll come back to him.

plytho – another player I have already much discussed. As already stated, I’m suspicious of your reasons for wanting to keep Peaceful Whale in this game, and I don’t like your willingness to jump on any wagon to ensure this. Will probably need to come back to plytho. For now scum lean.

FrozenFlame – Took me a while to sift through his rather colorful prose, but what I see I like. I don’t think that there is anything he’s said that I disagree with. If I have time later I’ll try to break down his posts a bit more but for now he’s in my townie group.

heuristically_alone – I don’t know. Will come back to him. Heury make some posts.

BoomFrog – One of the most difficult players (with moody) for me to read in this game. I think I need to come back to him.

Congratulations. The rest of you are on the “interesting” list. Will need considerably more time for these four:
Evil George Washington
#HBC | Zyth
jimbobmacdoodle
Sabrar

Back in a bit.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby BoomFrog » Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:20 am UTC

#HBC | Zyth wrote:@BoomGrinch what was so townie about Whale's "I just want to in case I die" post?
It was the first time he's considered what value he could add to town beyond attempting to not die. However, Bessie's point that I had literally just said mpolo got townie points for doing that does really damper the value of it, so it's pretty neutral now. PW is acting fairly identically to how he did last game, so he's either surprisingly hard to read or just scum again.

plytho wrote:
BoomFrog wrote:
plytho wrote:I think it's kind of different here. People who don't show up for D1 tend to be replaced while we try to lynch scum that's actually playing.

I'm with you on lynching Dark Horse over Red Ryu if Dark Horse isn't replaced.
But that doesn't apply to you. You should expect Dark Horse to be replaced so why are you against a Red Ryu lynch? He has produced absolutely terrible content and shown little intent to scum hunt until he was threatened.

I don't understand what you're trying to say here or you didn't understand me.

I misunderstood you.

Read list should be coming in the next few hours.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby #HBC | Zyth » Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:28 am UTC

Ogod am I going to have to get into it with Sabrar? I'm going to have to get into it with Sabrar aren't I? On the list for tonight:

1. Catch up on last two pages.
2. Determine if Sabrar is being manipulative dastard.
3. Reads list.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Madge » Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:17 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:Here if a player is known to have a shitty D1 meta because they just can't get started then it's taken into account in all games and we don't force them to play the game as we want it to be played.


I love you guys <3

Stream of conscious meta is a good way to put it... I'm oddly flattered by it to be honest. It's a lot harder to stream of consciouness as scum. Wonder if I should be more composed as a townie or more stream of consciousness as scum??? I suppose you'll have to wait for future games to find out! (I haven't been scum in a very long time thougH!)

I'm surprised Sabrar didn't know that GLaDOS is stated to kill the NKer or hammerer as that was explicitly stated (I don't know where - I can't find it again - but I definitely read it somewhere!!!). He's usually so thorough. This is a huge game so easy to miss, but still... and I'm more surprised nobody has pointed that out, and that SirGabriel is being cagey about it. (Then again, I didn't actually find where I read that, but I definitely DID read it SOMEWHERE!)
I'm writing a supernatural romance novel, it updates the first weekend of every month. You can find it here.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | N0

Postby Evil George Washington » Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:27 am UTC

#HBC | YOLOSWAG wrote:GLaDOS is in this game. She is a passive "bomb" -- upon detonation she will kill whoever killed her. This cannot be prevented from bulletproof, protection from abilities, or redirects.


You mean this, Madge?

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Re: Crossover Mafia | N0

Postby Sabrar » Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:29 am UTC

#HBC | YOLOSWAG wrote:GLaDOS is in this game. She is a passive "bomb" -- upon detonation she will kill whoever killed her. This cannot be prevented from bulletproof, protection from abilities, or redirects.
This is what we know of GLaDOS. Obviously she's going to PGO whoever NK-s her but the lynch situation is not clarified and could be interpreted in multiple ways.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | N0

Postby Sabrar » Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:42 am UTC

FrozenFlame wrote:I can safely say that the chance of there being cancerous degenerate roles in this game is near zero. That means no lazy, bullshit, kingmakery, or otherwise toxic wastes of slots like survivors, jesters, lynchers, etc.

Your comment please.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby BoomFrog » Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:17 am UTC

Town

Madge
mpolo
Maven89 - Aggressive but thoughtful and willing to reconsider. Seems like a fairly competent and straight forward player. If he's scum check to see which XKCDers names he spelled correctly on the first try. They will be his scummates. :D

Evil George Washington - Aggressive and thoughtful. It's always nice to have someone drumming up content, and he's forgiven for skimming.

heuristically_alone - Alien logic is hard to follow. (That's a meta read, h_a has proven his thought patterns simply don't follow the same paths as mine. He jumps to odd conclusions, and reacts in odd ways.)
heuristically_alone wrote:The issue is more of I thought of stating in my initial post to zen that it was kinda scummy, but worried that could make me look scummy, so didn't. And then get told I am scum for assuming he is town. Actually makes me laugh a little.

I actually like this post. I think scum h_a would have not said this out loud because he'd think it would reveal scummy thinking. @huristically_alone: Please do some more actual scum hunting though. - town lean

Spak - Only three posts so not very memorable. Reasonable content though. Votes for me, but I can understand the perspective. I expect more content but leaning townie.

Znirk - Little content but his thinking is in a townie light. - very slight townie lean.

Frozenflame - Does gross af mean scummy or just literally gross? I'm assuming the latter. Anyway, I still don't like the thing with PW, but I agree with his reads list and almost everything else he says. - Begrudging slight town lean

Neutral
#HBC | Zyth - I am extending the benefit of the doubt for now as I early read her as town. A lot will depend on the justification for this 99+% read. (No one should ever be that confident even with a cop result, let alone just from a scum read, however I'm assuming the high % was intended as a joke.)

Bessie - Not enough data. @Bessie: Why are you unhappy with mpolo's decision to claim?

Sabrar - I like most of what I'm seeing, but two things stand out. Why do you feel Zyth/Zen is so scummy to the point of seeing intentional jester play? All I see is a coy SDK-like player trying to provoke people early game.

Overall leaning towards probable scum because imo as scum he'd be more likely to fake good points than making mistakes as town.

Has your opinion of me changed after my explanations? What "mistakes" have I made? - Neutral pending more data.

Peaceful Whale - From his play I'd say he is scum, but I'd like to see his method of proving he is town. He's painted himself into a corner if he's scum so no need to put him to the test D1.

Scummy
Dark Horse - Better then average odds of being scum. Hopefully gets replaced.

moody7277 - Early reads list raises some questions on a reread. @Moody: Why did you find Gamma Emerald townie at all? Why did you have mpolo neutral after having him as townie for his early claim? - Scum leaning

plytho - Same points as before, put h_a and PW too high on his lists. Now all his content is focusing on clarifying details of past posts, and analyzing PW. No actual scum hunting. - scummy

Gamma Emerald - Some credit was extended in my past read based on him possible improving his content. Nothing has come forth. All his content has been meaningless replies to side issues or the gentlest of questions to other players. Combined with the initial suggestion to lynch mpolo GE is one of my top scum picks.

jimbobmacdoodle - Nothing has improved my opinion of him.

Red Ryu - Minimal content and purely bandwagoning. Declaring "I'm terrible" at the start of the game doesn't excuse you from playing the game. Will wait to reevaluate based on promised content.

SirGabriel - It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Probably lying about bomb on lynch, if it's not a lie it's almost certainly the hammerer who gets killed. Not my top pick to lynch D1 though. Maybe we can make scummy people be first to vote and last to hammer.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Evil George Washington » Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:57 am UTC

Gamma is being really under the radar for me. (Compared to our previous game together, and he was scum)

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Evil George Washington » Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:59 am UTC

Boomfrog: Is Jimbob not your top pick anymore? You said you were going to let him breathe a bit to see how he would play. What did you expect to change?

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby mpolo » Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:37 am UTC

Still on page 3 trying to catch up… My reason for claiming was to get the information out there that there might be redirectors involved. As town, I would rather that we know that sooner than later. My role is pretty low-utility early on, possibly useful as the game goes on. I am standard town. though. More after I slog through 6 more pages of posts…
Image <-- Evil experiment

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby bessie » Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:38 am UTC

BoomFrog wrote:Bessie - Not enough data. @Bessie: Why are you unhappy with mpolo's decision to claim?
Re mpolo’s claim. It’s not mpolo, and it’s not that particular claim. I don’t like most early claims. I think Gopher of Pern said it best when he said players accept early town claims at face value, and it turns the claimers into a protested class. It’s basically true. Who has claimed? Madge, mpolo, and SirGabriel (and Peaceful Whale has soft claimed a townie power). And Madge and mpolo weren’t even trying to avoid the lynch when they claimed. Are any of the claimers now lynch candidates? No. Would they have been serious lynch candidates if they didn’t claim? Yes. It’s not against the rules (in most games), but to me it’s something that goes against the spirit of the game. I also think townies claim too often to avoid the lynch, though I understand that one a little more. We all sign up because we want to play. But unless you’re super-townie in a sea of vanillas, is it really a town mentality to believe your survival is more important than anyone else’s? Please note that this view is not something new for me. I have stated this in the past, see here for the example with GoP’s quote. I’ve also said this in other games (many games).

And not enough data? Seriously? Ask me a question. What else would you like to know?

BoomFrog wrote:Peaceful Whale - From his play I'd say he is scum, but I'd like to see his method of proving he is town. He's painted himself into a corner if he's scum so no need to put him to the test D1.
Not very subtle role fishing.

Ninja'd by mpolo.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Sabrar » Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:10 am UTC

BoomFrog wrote:Why do you feel Zyth/Zen is so scummy to the point of seeing intentional jester play? All I see is a coy SDK-like player trying to provoke people early game.
It's not 'so scummy' it's 'intentionally uncooperative/weird'. With the setup-clarification (pending further review) I agree with your assessment.

BoomFrog wrote:Has your opinion of me changed after my explanations? What "mistakes" have I made?
The 'mistakes' are the points I mentioned that I didn't like. Like I don't remember you producing any wine in Shakespeare or X-men though I may have missed it because I already had you as Town.
I can accept your explanation though I have the same type of 'lying Town' reservation about it as I expressed regarding Zen. Therefore you remain on the scum-side.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby #HBC | Zyth » Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:13 am UTC

#HBC | Zyth wrote:Ogod am I going to have to get into it with Sabrar? I'm going to have to get into it with Sabrar aren't I? On the list for tonight:

2. Determine if Sabrar is being manipulative dastard.
Nope, just misinterpreting. I think.

Sabrar

Sabrar wrote:Note to self: DGamers play a lot more, post more and have an entirely different environment. I got the feeling that they are more likely to take their already established meta-reads as given, even with complete strangers. Therefore I should lessen (but not dismiss entirely) the impact of any action/read that comes from this mindset.
I'm a bit confused by the wording here? Are you saying that we are more prone to base our reads off of meta or more prone not to base our reads off of meta? It seems like the latter would be the case. Could you give an example on how you ought to lessen the impact? It would help me to better understand what you're saying here.

-

BTW it's really disconcerting that you keep making broad generalizations about dgames players and broad generalizations about xkcd players. Just based on this game alone, it's clear that there is a wide variety of play styles, opinions, and philosophies on both sites. We don't all believe the same thing. We don't all play the same way. Just compare Red Ryu to EGW or bessie to SirGabriel. I've played on a number of sites, and I'm actually pleasantly surprised by the similarities between this site and Dgames. They definitely outweigh the differences.

-

Regarding my opinion on meta. I used to have an identical view as you do. Comparing past games to a current is a staple of objective analysis. It also is a good way to prevent misreading someone simply due to the way that they play. I get that. And I think using it for that latter purpose is good. What I don't think it is good for is using it to determine a player's alignment. As I said before, it is very easy to alter one's play style. It can be difficult for someone, as scum, to play by their typical town meta, but from my experience this is just due to a lack of effort. When a player really has the drive to win as scum, they can and will take advantage of meta-readers. Take Whale playing the noob-town role in his previous game for example. I've been bitten in the arse far too many times by my own meta-reads and by trusting the meta-reads of players more familiar another player. Judging players by their actions, inconsistencies, and remarks in the present game are much more reliable means to determining alignment.

Again, I am all for using meta to nullify misreads. It would be silly to lynch someone over a personality trait/play style. (Unless of course that play style was extremely anti-town).

-

The reason why I didn't care to look into Whale's previous game, as you suggested at start, was because, no, I wasn't really serious. EGW's explanation here was spot on:

Evil George Washington wrote:Now I can answer. Zen was being semi-serious, to get the ball rolling. It is not uncommon for us to try to spearhead the early game so we can get talking and not dilly dallying in early game.


I didn't really find Whale to be ***obv*** scum, but it's not that I didn't find him suspicious either. He was a starting point. A lift out of RVS. Your immediate white-knighting was a total cock-block and expecting an answer for whether or not it was a joke at that time left me no choice but to try and ignore you. It's really strange to me that you weren't able to pick up on that. It's not a culture thing (as you keep drawing back to), it's a Sabrar thing, because clearly Boom knew what I was doing.

-----

BTWBTW your Frozen read is weird. What on earth did you like about his first post that he linked? I disliked everything in it.

-Don't understand what was gross about h_a's post.
-Don't understand why he agreed with my post on h_a when no one else did.
-His question at gamma was actually good. (so nvm guess I didn't dislike everything.)
-His explanation for why he agreed with you completely contradicted his response to plytho.

Note to future Zyth: If these guys aren't Masons, they're scum mates.

-----

Sabrar wrote:Zen: Let me preface my view on her by letting you know that I don't like lying Town even if done for noble purposes (another reason why we lost Shakespeare). This includes false-claims, misdirects, basically anything where you don't say what you actually think. This is because it's too easy for scum to fall back on this and claim some gambit when caught in a lie or an untenable pov.
When I question the seriousness of her entry it appears to me that Zen is not interested in giving a straight answer (which makes this funny). Being uncooperative from the start suggests Jester to me which is later debunked.

Reading through her ISO what I don't see is a natural progression as she seems to jump from one target to another. Starts by calling PW scum, somewhat backtracks here and doesn't really mention him later. Goes after h_a instead, needles him for quite some time, suddenly picks 3 other names to lynch, deliberately not Dark Horse. Votes Dark Horse anyway but already declares that she has a sure scum-read so that vote doesn't mean anything.
At best a neutral read if this is her usual style, strong scum-lean otherwise.
I addressed the slashed out part above. Regarding the other half: those three that I suggested were alternative lurkers. They weren't necessarily players I was suspicious of. If we were going to push a lurker, I didn't think Dark Horse would be someone that we could get anything out of. I wanted to push one of the lurkers that had actually showed intent to play the game. @plytho, this answers your question as well. Let me know if it clears it up.

Regarding my play style: I usually get flack for this, because it makes people paranoid, but I literally choose a random play style (among a set of them) before the start of the game. Ranmaru (EGW) can confirm this. Here are a few games to get the gist of the basic aspects though if you want to skim through 'em. Necromafia was pretty similar to my start here.

Necromafia
Town. I'm the user "Ramen King". This also gives a good overview of Ranmaru.

Pick your Poison
Scum. I'm the user "Xivii".

Seven Deadly Sins
Town with vastly different play style than the first. I'm the user "Xivii". Maven is in this one as well.


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