Crossover Mafia | Game!

For your simulated organized crime needs.

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moody7277
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby moody7277 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:50 am UTC

Evil George Washington wrote:Funnily enough, people should read Time Travellers to see that scum has given up due to the extreme page length. I think Moody just said that because he knows he's dead in the water so he may as well spill some wine.


*bows*

I only have time for a few jiggers as opposed to the jeroboam that I feel I deserve, but it's nice to be appreciated. And jimbob is totally the SK, so you should lynch him. :P
The story of my life in xkcdmafia:

Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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Gamma Emerald
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Gamma Emerald » Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:50 am UTC

Evil George Washington wrote:Also your explanation that you are in college makes sense, Gamma. I hope to see more from you.

Hopefully you will. I intend to read what I missed in the night phase fyi.

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Madge
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Madge » Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:51 am UTC

I appreciate you guys trying to activate me. Me and Moody both need one more vote and I'm not sure that's going to be possible: Moody won't vote for me or himself, and Red Ryu is probably too scared of me to try. Mpolo is my only chance to get 6 votes.

I don't think it's going to happen. Did Mpolo say he'd be around again before deadline?

Like, we need mpolo and red_ryu to co-operate with getting me to L/2. Let's not bother. DH and h_a aren't around so won't be able to assist.

Can someone please hammer moody so we can start twilight? I don't want to hammer because causing a death makes me a tree stump, but I will at like 15 minutes to deadline if I need to. We'll try again tomorrow when I'll only need 4 or 5 votes to get L/2.

Unofficial Votals
Madge (5): Madge, SirGabriel, Spak, Gamma Emerald, Bessie
jimbobmacdoodle (2): , #HBC | Red Ryu, moody,
moody7277 (10): jimbobmacdoodle, EGW, Sabrar, plytho, Znirk, Maven89, #HBC | Zyth, Peaceful Whale, Frozenflame, BoomFrog,
Gamma Emerald (1): mpolo

Not Voting (2): heuristically_alone, Dark Horse
I'm writing a supernatural romance novel, it updates the first weekend of every month. You can find it here.

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Evil George Washington
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Evil George Washington » Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:53 am UTC

Bessie, hammer Moody.

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Maven89
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Maven89 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:54 am UTC

unvote

Madge vote Moody

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Maven89
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Maven89 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:54 am UTC

In 4 minutes I'm voting Moody again because umbrella not sure when the deadline is

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Maven89 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:55 am UTC

Maven89 wrote:In 4 minutes I'm voting Moody again because umbrella not sure when the deadline is



That's the weirdest autocorrect I've ever seen

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bessie
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby bessie » Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:55 am UTC

Gamma Emerald, when you’re quoted the form sends you a notification, and until recently, an email if you have it set up that way in your preferences (there’s a bug with the forum email right now). We sometimes quote (or fake quote) people to prod them because they (used to) get an email.

If you read an old game full of empty quotes in a spoiler, that's what's going on.
Spoiler:
Gamma Emerald wrote:...

Ninja'd

Unvote

Vote moody

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Evil George Washington
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Evil George Washington » Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:55 am UTC

Lol at that autocorrect.

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Maven89
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Maven89 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:56 am UTC

vite Moody

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Maven89
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Maven89 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:56 am UTC

vote Moody

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Gamma Emerald
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Gamma Emerald » Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:56 am UTC

[removed content due to irrelevancy]
PEdit: thanks Bessie.

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Evil George Washington
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Evil George Washington » Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:57 am UTC

Now we're in twilight until mod posts the flip. The time in between now and then is ??? so pretend he'll do it as soon as possible to get all your thoughts out.

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Evil George Washington
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Evil George Washington » Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:59 am UTC

Next time someone hammers please use an epic picture to accompany it. :)

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moody7277
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby moody7277 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:02 am UTC

Goodnight Seattle, we love you!



Frasier has left the building.
The story of my life in xkcdmafia:

Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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bessie
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby bessie » Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:06 am UTC

If YOLOSWAG hasn't called the game when I get back I'll post whatever I have time to post.

plytho wrote:One more thing: DGamers, go join us in Gojoe. It's a fun way to share your thoughts on the game as it is played. Don't read the spoilers for this game and put everything you write in a spoiler.
Finally plytho and I agree on something!

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Amrock » Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:25 am UTC

I replaced SirGabriel wazzup

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#HBC | YOLOSWAG
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby #HBC | YOLOSWAG » Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:33 am UTC

bessie wrote:Vote moody
========[]

HAMMAH!


Vote Count 1.13
Madge (4): Madge, SirGabriel, Spak, Gamma Emerald
jimbobmacdoodle (2): #HBC | Red Ryu, moody7277
moody7277 (11): jimbobmacdoodle, EGW, Sabrar, plytho, Znirk, Maven89, #HBC | Zyth, Peaceful Whale, Frozenflame, BoomFrog, Bessie
Gamma Emerald (1): mpolo

Not Voting (2): heuristically_alone, Dark Horse

With 20 alive, and 11 to lynch, moody7277 has died!

Peaceful Whale has edited a post here: http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?p=4244549#p4244549. Should he see D2, he will suffer a MODVOTE for the Day phase, meaning he will have an automatic vote on him to start the day that will last until the end of the phase. Should he continue to commit foul crimes, a repeated offense will result in a more serious punishment.

Laserguy replaces Dark Horse.
Amrock replaces SirGabriel.

Moody reveals to be...





















































:mrgreen:














































Reaper (Overwatch), Mafia Know-It-All Wraith

Image

N1 begins! Deadline is Saturday, September 16 at 11:59:59 PM EST: https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/a ... t=sanserif

Flavor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZT9DST_M_g8

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Re: Crossover Mafia | N1 Begins! | 9/16

Postby Peaceful Whale » Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:35 am UTC

I'm sorry about that edit, from now on I will leave spelling mistackes (<see what I did there?) alone. :cry:

Or should I put.

Edit: fixed spelling mistakes?
(Didn't actually edit)

Actual edit: (I'm really sorry, didn't realize it was night, ignore this)
My meta for future reference
Spoiler:
cemper93 wrote:Your meta appears to be "just writes whatever is on his mind and doesn't remember what happened more than five hours ago"

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Re: Crossover Mafia | N1 Begins! | 9/16

Postby #HBC | YOLOSWAG » Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:50 am UTC

6. There is no posting in this thread during the Night phase. Doing so will result in a punishment by the moderator for the following Day. There is a brief window that can be considered an acceptable accident, but forgetting to check the thread before posting is not acceptable. Do not abuse this.


Peaceful Whale will begin D2 with 2 modvotes should he survive 'til then. Please do not post during the Night unless specifically told otherwise.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby #HBC | YOLOSWAG » Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:11 am UTC

#HBC | YOLOSWAG wrote:Reaper (Overwatch), Mafia Know-It-All Wraith

Image
Megaman has absorbed this player's ability!

(FYI, I was supposed to post this at the time of the flip, just making a new post for the sake of public knowledge, my b)

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby #HBC | YOLOSWAG » Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:44 pm UTC

I apologize for the wait. School kicking into gear, moving out, comod dropped out due to real life obligations, and some other shit went down as well. There is no longer any need to CC Rajam on questions/actions, send 'em all my way. He fought bravely during this time, but he is onto bigger and better things.

I may be slow from here on out so please bear with me, but trust in the swag, we gonna finish this thang.

Maven89, Agent 47 (Hitman), Town Guilt-Ridden Vigilante

was killed during the night!

Image

Judgement has been activated!

In addition to the standard lynch, all players in the game now have the ability to post "Judgement Vote: X" for Amrock or Laser Guy.

- The person with the most Judgement votes at the end of the day will die. This means they do NOT need a majority. If one has 6 judgement votes and the other has 4, the player with 6 will die.
- The surviving player will be immune to all abilities for the following Night and cannot be killed the following Night.
- If there is a tie vote, both players get immunity to all abilities and cannot by killed the following night.

Repeat, BOTH THE STANDARD LYNCH AND JUDGEMENT LYNCH ARE IN EFFECT. So you can still lynch someone outside of those with just Vote: Maven89 (But not actually Maven! Cuz he's dead :P)

D2 begins!Deadline is Monday, September 25th at 11:59:59 PM EST! With 18 alive, it takes 10 to lynch! https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/j ... t=sanserif

Not Voting (18): Red Ryu, Evil George Washington, Gamma Emerald, Spak, Frozenflame, heuristically_alone, BoomFrog, Sabrar, Peaceful Whale, Bessie, Dark Horse, Znirk, jimbobmacdoodle, moody7277, plytho, Madge, mpolo, #HBC | Zyth

Judgement Vote Tally: Amrock (0)
Laserguy (0)

Not Judgement Voting (18): Red Ryu, Evil George Washington, Gamma Emerald, Spak, Frozenflame, heuristically_alone, BoomFrog, Sabrar, Peaceful Whale, Bessie, Dark Horse, Znirk, jimbobmacdoodle, moody7277, plytho, Madge, mpolo, #HBC | Zyth

Flavor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qsfc-ZRP9AU

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Evil George Washington
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Re: Crossover Mafia | N1 | 9/16

Postby Evil George Washington » Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:53 pm UTC

Good morning. Today I shall show you the next scum, and his name is Boomfrog. Here is my case as follows.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | N1 | 9/16

Postby Evil George Washington » Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:55 pm UTC

BoomFrog Case

First Post

Here he tells Sabrar that there is no need for clarification, and votes Peace Whale. This is obviously to help Zen get the ball rolling to lift out of RVS. This was not a question or concern to Sabrar.

Roller Coaster

This is one thing I find questionable from Boomfrog. This wasn’t as understanding as I would expect. To me, a player asking a person to clarify doesn’t show scum indicative mindset so I wonder why he arrived to this conclusion. I’m also not sure how he believed in PW being scum simply from that link. Boomfrog states he scumread Sabrar but his initial post showed no signs of progression of this thought process. He did not question or vote Sabrar, which shows he also did not care to sort him. It makes no sense for him to say that he had a concern with Sabrar which would lead to him telling him to refrain from clarifying.

Moody Re-read

This is the first time he mentions Moody. He states he’ll re-read Moody but he never actually even gave a first impression of him. It’s more likely he felt he needed to address the fact he didn’t talk about him at all in his initial reads.

Unsatisfactory

This whole response to Maven is unsatisfactory to me. Especially the underlined. The underlined is a weak justification for him scum reading FF for jumping on Whale who he also scumread, which like Maven said, doesn’t make sense. He cannot explain it. Therefore, his true explanation is that he doesn’t vote or question Sab is because he does not want to interact with Sab nor sort him.

EGW scumread on BOOM

I feel the the last sentence (underlined) is another attempt to justify his forced read on MPOLO. Now that Moody has flipped scum, him supporting Moody with a forced MPOLO read is supported. He never stated that it was due to meta originally. Even so, it was too early to decide he was acting like an INDY because 1) MPOLO said he was busy and 2) It was the start of the game.

BoomFrog Quote Context

Spoiler:
BoomFrog wrote:What a rollercoaster! My vote for Whale was initially to pile on the pressure and I found Sabrar's comment unfounded and scummy, but the link to the past* post was quite convincing. Which means my vote is now quite serious and Sabrar returns to neutral pending PW's flip.

Townie points to Evil George for his reasonable at the time pressure on Sabrar. Townie points to Zyth for recognizing Evil George's towniness.


This is one thing I find questionable from Boomfrog. This wasn’t as understanding as I would expect. To me, a player asking a person to clarify doesn’t show scum indicative mindset so I wonder why he arrived to this conclusion. I’m also not sure how he believed in PW being scum simply from that link.





BoomFrog wrote:
Maven89 wrote:With that said, I'm glad people are voting boomfrog, but a little surprised that no one is mentioning my point on him, because to me it seemed the most suspect. If there's something I'm missing here please let me know, I'm going to wait for Boomfrog to answer it (as he claimed he would) before I vote for him

Maven89 wrote:
BoomFrog wrote:I agree with Sabrar after Sabrar posted his extra evidence. Frozenflame agreed with Sabrar before the extra evidence. When Frozenflame agreed, it was with no real reason and feels jumping on a wagony. Did that explain my seeming contradiction?


No. if you thought Sabrar was scummy for his push, why did you go along with it? Why not vote Sabar, or ask him about it? If Whale is scummy, then why would Frozenflame be scummy for jumping on his bandwagon? Scum jump on bandwagons for townies, not fellow mafia members. You can't hold the opinion that Whale is scum and Frozen is scum for wanting to lynch him.

Alright, for you and Sabrar, he's my thinking:

PW is new and easily spooked, I plan before the game even started that I would apply pressure to him early D1 to see how he reacted.
PW posts some junk and seems fairly similar to his last scum game - I find him somewhat scummy.
Sabrar says PW's joke read list is very scummy. - I disagree with him, but refrain from mentioning it because I want to finish applying pressure to PW before coming back to it.
FrozenFlame agrees with Sabrar - Also seems to be weak reasoning.
Sabrar explains his secret extra meta knowledge that justifies his reason to find PW scummy - I agree with him here and mentally give him townie points
I compose my "rollercoaster" post and apparently explain myself poorly. Sabrar is justified so gets townie points, FF is not justified and gets scummy points even though they both had similar opinions. Also, I certainly can hold the opinion that PW is scummy and FF is scummy for having a poor reason to find PW scummy. There are almost certainly multiple groups of scum.

P.S. I was in the middle of writing this when my daughter woke up. I was planning to write a reads list but that will have to wait until probably tomorrow.


This whole response to Maven is unsatisfactory to me. Especially the underlined. The underlined is a weak justification for him scum reading FF for jumping on Whale who he also scumread, which like Maven said, doesn’t make sense. He cannot explain it. Therefore, his true explanation is that he doesn’t vote or question Sab is because he does not want to interact with Sab nor sort him.

BoomFrog wrote:
Evil George Washington wrote:BoomFrog - Scum. He has Jimbob as a top scum read but after hopping off Dark Horse, he doesn’t vote Jimbob, ask him a question or make a conclusion on him. Gives me the feeling he doesn’t truly care about sorting, and is fine with offing which ever lurker he can get. His Not Mafia reasoning on MPOLO seems forced. I don't see how it seems like something an Indy would do, seems null.
Don't worry, I haven't forgotten about JimBob. Mpolo read includes meta knowledge, for example in Dark Tower, he (truthfully) claimed Guardian Angel when under pressure. Indy Mpolo tries to be townie but also doesn't engage with the game as much, so I stick by my read of him as possibly indy.


I feel the underlined is another attempt to justify his forced read on MPOLO. Now that Moody has flipped scum, him supporting Moody with a forced MPOLO read is supported. He never stated that it was due to meta originally. Even so, it was too early to decide he was acting like an INDY because 1) MPOLO said he was busy and 2) It was the start of the game.

BoomFrog wrote:Moody isn't new. He's extreamly experienced and always cagey regardless of alignment. I'll try to reread him if I have time but I'd say he is the hardest person to evaluate on our site (besides perhaps myself).

Do you two have any insight on Red Ryu? Is he always like this? How about Dark Horse?

Btw, Madge is probably town.


This is the first time he mentions Moody. He states he’ll re-read Moody but he never actually even gave a first impression of him. It’s more likely he felt he needed to address the fact he didn’t talk about him at all in his initial reads.


Key Points:

1. States scumread on Sabrar without further interaction, questions, or vote.
2. Weak justification for why he had a contridiction of reads via: scum!FF jumping on scum!Whale
3. Attempts to justify forced read of Mpolo indy read, given too early in the game.
4. No initial impression on Moody, is tasked to re-read for quite some time near early game.

Scum Motivation: He states a scumread of Sabrar for him asking for clarification but I cannot find the motivation for stating that after the fact, but it does not make sense with what he initially said. He did not want to interact or sort him because he does not have the town motivation to do so. He had a weak justification for his contradiction because he could not explain why scum!ff jumping on scum!whale makes sense. Therefore since he cannot explain it, he is withholding the true explanation. His motivation for giving out a MPOLO read is to support Moody [flipped scum] who has made the mistake of giving MPOLO the benefit of the doubt without supposedly knowing his alignment (which he did). His motivation for not having an initial read on Moody is simply so he can keep his distance from him.

Vote: Boomfrog

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Re: Crossover Mafia | N1 | 9/16

Postby plytho » Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:56 pm UTC

Here’s my good morning wall that hopefully won’t end up in Gojoe. I've spoilered some longer bits.

I’m very happy with this D1. Not just the scum lynch but there was a lot going on so I’m confident there’s a bunch of scum slips to find there later. I also just had a great time :)

Reply to frozenflame re:glados lynch plan link

Spoiler:
The reason I find the people pushing the plan suspicious is that it is always better for scum if town follows this plan since it always results in a town sacrifice. It is no-risk for scum. I prefer the redirect plan until town decides it’s time for GLaDOS to go.

The townie response to the bomb is let’s kill scum with it.
The scum response is let’s kill town with it.

The townie way to kill scum with it is redirecting.
The scum way to kill town with it is getting a townie to hammer.

Let’s force scum to hammer seems like a townie plan but will only kill scummy looking townies. I understand that this is better than straight up mislynching those townies.

FrozenFlame’s arguments:
FrozenFlame wrote:Your criticisms of the "force someone to hammer SirG" strategy are very fair, but also not particularly poignant. For example, you say that it is difficult to get consensus as to who is scummiest, but this is always true of pretty much every day phase, particularly in the early game, which for our purposes here re: dealing with Glados before she becomes a problem, early game consensus building is all that is relevant. Basically, it's no harder to build consensus around who ought to hammer SirG than it is to build consensus around who to lynch. This is illustrated particularly well by the fact that the entire basis for being able to "force" someone to hammer SirG is the threat of pain of lynch if the selected person doesn't comply. So almost definitionally, the amount of consensus needed to put this plan into effect is no harder than simply deciding on a lynch. It's just that we'd need to wagon SirG to L-1 early enough to give us time to react to, and lynch, a noncompliant hammer selection.

Red Ryu refusing to hammer in this scenario is different because he hasn't clearly been established as the lynch for the day. If we could definitively say that we were going to lynch him anyway if he didn't comply, and we had real force behind that threat, then I would hope Red Ryu would change his tune. If he didn't, he'd be guilty of being a selfish anti-town fuckwad if he refused to comply as a townie after being condemned by the majority of the players. Or he could just be scum, in which case lynching him for noncompliance is fantastic for us. Worst case we make a town/indy trade which isn't all that bad if made this early in the game.

Again I totally agree with you that there's no harm in seeing if the slot can be/will be dealt with during night phase. But we can't rely on that. Hence why I think it's important to recognize this as an option that we really ought exercise before D4 if SirG's slot proves sticky.



I disagree. It is harder to get consensus on the hammer. The reason why it is is right there in your post. There's no wagonomics when getting consensus on who should hammer like we have at day's end for the lynch. The only reason we got consensus on the moody lynch is because no consensus meant no lynch.

Say we were trying to do the SirG lynch plan with the D1 players. First of all, it took a while to figure out who the possible lynch candidates were (in part because of Zen’s deviation) then we ended up with moody vs jimbob. But there wasn't strong enough consensus on either of them to back up a threat of “hammer or get lynched”. Because for both jimbob and moody the probability of the other getting lynched was still high and they could both bet on getting enough support on the counter wagon to survive.

Yeah, we can't rely on the redirect (but I’d like to keep scum sweating for a while) but I think it's going to be nearly impossible to get a quick consensus about who’s scummiest. Barring stuff like cop claims but those don't even lead to a GLaDOS lynch since scum will always refuse.

I think at some point (if we're not lucky with the redirect) town will need a volunteer to sacrifice themselves. That might be someone that looked a bit scummy before but might just be a townie deciding that's the best way they can help town at that point.

All that being said, if we do happen to have quick consensus (on Zen for example?) I’m happy to put them to the GlaDos test. I think this is the only way it works. If we happen to have consensus, do the test. Forcing consensus is a lot harder.

I’m not saying that liking this plan automatically makes you scum. I am saying that being scum automatically makes you like this plan because it’s no-risk.


So, for now, redirect kills to GLaDOS.
If we get an early consensus, do the GLaDOS test.
If we don’t, by a certain point, find a townie sacrifice.
Important question: how long can we wait before we sacrifice?

Other nightly thoughts:

Spoiler:
Why did nobody take up Madge's offer to prove the tree stump claim? I don't understand how she could prove it. Unless it would be mod declared that she can’t vote? Because not being able to vote isn't that hard to fake. Ok, if she's townie her vote is important but still.

Man, getting madge activated is super hard. 17 out of 20 votes is almost unanimous consensus on the lynch target and the madge plan. What does this imply? It's pretty much impossible without claiming. Does this make sense for an indie? Even if the first two powers are great I’d still avoid the third. Let's not get hooked on Madge's sweet powers.

Another thing from Zen that pinged me is his paranoia comment to me and Sabrar. Feels like gaslighting. His ‘I wouldn’t do this as scum because it’s too obvious’ also feels terribly winey.

Where I’m at after the lynch (before taking a good look at everybody and rereading): Zen is looking pretty bad now. I could still do a Gamma lynch. What’s up with bessie? She seems less present in this game than in previous ones. Could be due to the massive volume of posts. There was also a weird response to my SirG wagon issues.

People looking good: jimbob, because Zen was deviating towards him and being early on the moody wagon. Sabrar and BoomFrog for being early on the moody wagon. I felt a bit icky towards Sabrar near the end because he kept agreeing with me and saying and seeing the same things (leading to an increase in paranoia -> what if scum is leading both wagons?? :shock: ) but the fact that he was one of the drivers of the scum lynch makes this a town tell.


Quick thoughts on others: (basing these thoughts on my revised reads + what I remember from late game)

Spoiler:
Red Ryu: I’ll need to do a proper reread of him. Felt ok when he joined the game after his initial lurking. Except for the continued push on SirG, after it was made clear to him that a volunteer would be needed.
LaserGuy (formerly Dark Horse): null, maybe slightly scum because of Dark Horse history mentioned by EGW(?)
Evil George Washington: one of the good guys
Amrock: has a very tough job, I hope they get to enjoy the game
Znirk: null
FrozenFlame: not sure. I enjoy the compliments but I’m wary of the motivation behind it.
Spak: looking a little better than Red Ryu. I haven’t taken a good look at the new content but it feels pretty much ok.
Mpolo: pretty much null.
Heuristically_alone: completely disappeared after promising juicy reads. Swallowed by the thread?
Maven: I still like maven
Peaceful Whale: townie that’s learning


@LaserGuy:welcome, could you provide a reads list please
@amrock: welcome, what’s your game plan and what did SirG lie about?

Vote: Zyth

You’ll need a fantastic explanation for your behaviour and statements before I move that vote.

My case on Zen, expanded:

Spoiler:
plytho wrote:Things I don't like about Zen:
-the late DH push (particularly this near lie)
-the late reads list that had been promised for days
-the 4th wagon (it's not the jimbob part I'm bothered by)
-the SirG lynch plan
-the 100% scum read claim without any evidence


Going a bit deeper on this, line by line:

-the late DH push (particularly this near lie)
This is what triggered me to look into Zen’s motivations. Zen has been active all game and DH had been discussed multiple times. Pushing this point so late in the game doesn’t make sense. His evidence is also annoyingly misleading. Zen has experience with OS games, at least that’s what he’s saying here. I checked back on smashboards and the last 4 Overswarm games have that special rule 3 (and basically the same rules list). Clearly it’s part of the standard OS rules list.

-the late reads list that had been promised for days
There were other people that took a lot of time to provide a reads list, but as I said, Zen has been active all game. He was around but didn’t post a list until he got a view on most people’s opinions.

-the 4th wagon (it's not the jimbob part I'm bothered by)
Starting an alternative Wagon to the 3 likely ones, with about 24 hours left in the game has town scrambling. Zen was active all game. If he wanted to push jimbob he could have done so much earlier.

-the SirG lynch plan
Zen was one of the people supporting this. I explained earlier why this may be indicative of scum.

-the 100% scum read claim
The claim on itself is not necessarily a scum tell but extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and we still haven’t seen the evidence. So: stellar evidence: good Zen. anything less: scum Zen, more dodging: scum Zen


Time for my after-run shower. I'll be back with some shower thougths on the implications of this judgement day on the GLaDOS possibilities.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | N1 | 9/16

Postby plytho » Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:59 pm UTC

Pre shower thought: the plan doesn't work without hammer I think. Tricky situation..
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Re: Crossover Mafia | N1 | 9/16

Postby Evil George Washington » Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:03 pm UTC

Questions

--
Questions to Sabrar:

Hopes FF will avoid Gut reads in the future. Why is giving out gut reads something you would want him to refrain from doing (or anyone else for the matter)?

When Madge pointed out that Sabrar should have known Glados also killed people via lynch, why did you give her an explanation instead of asking her a question? (Like I did a post before)

Why did you omit the details of Maven’s second post in your read of him? Curious.

What is your read on Boomfrog?



Questions to Bessie:

Have you taken a deeper look into Boomfrog? I want to know your stance now, if you don’t have one, read my case.

--

Questions for Peace Whale:

Why did you sign up for mafia in general? Who invited you? What do you like and dislike about town, and mafia? Which do you like better? What’s your game plan as scum? What’s your game plan as town? What has been the purpose of your posting D1 and on? Why haven’t you been as active?

Btw, am I the only one who feels like this post is kinda weird?

BoomFrog wrote:@Sabrar, I can understand the Dgamers finding my style scummy but you should know me better then that. My wine this game has been minimal compared to my opening in Dark Tower and I'm always trying to provoke people early game with really pressure (which is why we lynched scum D1 in X-men btw, so although you don't like it you have to admit it gets results). I've actually been fairly laid back this game since Zyth then EGW have been drumming up content, I haven't had to.


Give me one specific thing that you still feel was a mistake in my play.


Peace Whale, can you go more into this? What about it seems weird?

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby LaserGuy » Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:19 pm UTC

Hi everyone! Really glad to finally get to join the game. Hopefully I’ll be able to make a useful contribution in this slot. There was a sewage flood at my work at the end of last week, so while the drywall in my areas were getting repaired, I didn't have a whole lot to do, and I may have ended up spending a really inordinate amount of time on this.

On the matter of Dark Horse, I don’t really have much helpful information to tell. I’ve been following the thread since last Friday, and I am up to date. YOLO gave me a heads up that I would be replacing DH on Sunday, and had originally indicated that I’d be subbing in Monday night. On Tuesday after I hadn’t heard anything, he informed me that I’d have to wait until N1 instead. Best guess is that he felt two subs late into D1 would be too disruptive, but I don’t know.

I’m a miller. My secondary ability is Judgment, which allows for an extra lynch between only me and my chosen target. Whichever of us is not lynched gets immunity from night actions during the subsequent night phase. It looks like I was redirected in the night, as Amrock was not my intended target. But this isn't a terrible outcome since it means we can get rid of GlaDOS tonight without burning our lynch. I'm not exactly sure how the mechanics of Judgment play out today as far as GlaDOS is concerned. I'll try to ask YOLO and see what I can tease out.

My intended target was Zyth, who is scum. I'll elaborate on this in extensive detail in my next post.

I’ve made some notes commenting page-by-page of the game. Most of these I made before I received my role-PM, so they won’t be alignment indicative, but I'll post them in a spoiler if people are interested in seeing my reactions in real time. It’s super long though. I know that it would have been better to wait until after I'd received my role before reading, but I felt that if I held off then I'd be a couple hundred posts behind for most of the game. More pertinent are the posts to follow, where I’ll give my read of Zyth, then everyone else. These are all based on the current state of play. Apologies, these are going to be some epic walls. Not really any way around it.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby LaserGuy » Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:20 pm UTC

Case for Zyth:

The extremely short version: Zyth has too much information about the setup to be town. Based on interactions, it is extremely likely that he is a scumbuddy to moody, and it appears that moody’s ability gave Zyth’s team access to a huge amount of setup information that they were hoping to leverage by killing off the other scumteam for townie credit. This effort ultimately failed, and in the process, provided us with enough information both implicate his entire team, and also, indirectly, most of the members of the other team as well.

The long version:

I liked his playstyle in early D1, which was very effective at generating useful content. Spooks both heury and PW to good effect, ends up getting good intel on a number of other players. His play is quite “cagey” to use BoomFrog’s turn of phrase, making a lot of strong declarative statements to make an impact and seeing what kinds of responses he gets, without always revealing everything.

@Zyth: Was/is your 99.83% read on jimbob? Why did you never reply to this when asked by plytho, George, Sabrar, etc.?
@Zyth: Here, you say that you don’t like using meta as a basis for reads. Yet in your reads list here you rely a fair bit on this type of meta as alignment indicative, eg.
EGW: EGW is always very easy to read when he's not mafia. I don't think I really need to go into this read.

Why do you feel a meta read is appropriate here?

I was reading him as townie for most of D1, but when I went to read on iso, I encountered many, many problems with his play.

This about mpolo is weird:
Hm, are you not the protagonist from portal? If not, there may be another redirector whose purpose in the game is to get destroy GladOS. I was thinking by redirecting a night kill towards her.

@Zyth: Where did this come from? Why did you immediately think of him being the protagonist from portal based only on this:
mpolo wrote:My power involves re-arranging of targets and powers.


Then there’s this one.
jim is the strongest scum player of the 3. We take him out and the rest falls apart. I just have a feeling about this.

@Zyth: Where did you get this from? How do you know that there’s three scum? How do you know jimbob is the strongest of them? Why didn’t you answer Sabrar’s question about this here?

He makes a comment here implying he knows jim and Ryu are co-aligned.
Vote jim and at least help me put scum in a position where they are forced to choose.

@Zyth: How you know jimbob and Ryu are co-aligned scum? Why didn’t you answer EGW’s question about it here?

smh should've went for Spak.

Vote: moody

@Zyth: Nice bus. Why do you think Spak would have been better?

On close read, I feel that Zyth makes far too many of these type of comments to be coincidence; he has far too much extra knowledge about the setup. He has scrupulously avoided answering any questions related to these comments. IMHO, he is definitely scumbuddies with moody, whose know-it-all mechanic likely revealed the entire setup to their team, and, importantly, revealed to them the presence and members of the second scumteam. Zyth helpfully provided this sample role-PM which indicates that this type of role is possible for mafia:
Kefka - Mafia Vote Manipulator ***This is OS' signature role that has been in multiple games in different varieties. I've seen it has both indy and mafia.***
-Once a day, can force a player that voted for him to vote for someone else in their next post, which remains permanent throughout the day.
-Can choose a player at night and will be told of their role and abilities, and will be immune to their abilities the following day and night phase.
-One time, during the night can use the ability "Goner". The next day phase it will only take a single vote to lynch a player. The mod will announce this and that no votes will count until an hour from the start of the day.
-One time, that night anyone that attempts to kill him will be told their kill was successful, but he will not be killed.
-Has mod-confirmed set up knowledge.


Moving on to moody, we see a number of points connecting the two:
This post strongly implies that Zyth knows moody’s alignment already.
Moody will you magically be town please.


Here’s Zyth’s read on jimbob:
jimbobmacdoodle
1. "bessie - her one post is pretty standard bessie style. I like what she point out about Zyth (pointing out own townieness, assuming one scum team), and to a lesser extent about PeacefulWhale (repeatedly emphasising his newbie status, similar to his previous game where he was scum).” The bolded is such a convoluted thing to say, and I can only see it coming from a scum mindset (town players in tunnel mode also do things like this, but that's not relevant here). What does this even mean? Town do not make statements like this.

Not really much meat on this for a 99.83% read (I’m assuming jimbob is the 99% read here? Zyth never said despite many people asking late in the day). The bolded parts seem to contradict each other. Also, compare his complaint about jimbob to what moody says in his read of Zyth:
Zyth/Zen-- questions for several people. lists her three lynchables, then votes Dark Horse after some poking by EGW. declaration of red ryu being scum and wanting to lynch Spak for lurking. votes SirG for his Glados claim. based on the same measurement as EGW but to a slightly lesser degree, I think she's town

There are good reasons to believe that jimbob is scum, but this isn’t one of them, or, if it is, it implicates moody just as much as jim. Zyth doesn’t have the meta knowledge and jimbob doesn’t have the content for Zyth to put together a convincing case. My inclination was that the 99.83% comment wasn’t aimed at any particular person, just retrospectively whomever he later ended up deciding would be his chosen lynch candidate.

Zyth tries to push away from moody lynch, for example: here, here, here. Avoids answering Sabrar’s question about his knowledge of moody’s playstyle here. Sabrar's points in this series are really good--how is it possible that a player as good as Zyth has no read on moody at all? Yet still understands his playstyle? I think this post by Zyth is almost correctly describing their strategy for what’s happening. Zyth wanted to lynch someone from the other scum team to promote townie points in his own. Unfortunately, he ends up with the worst of both worlds, being late on the wagon after resisting, and losing his scumbuddy. Probably the plan was to knock out most of the other scumteam early to establish townie cred (especially after he already claimed his 90% win rate as town + can figure out the entire scumteam D1). Pretty easy to do when you already know the setup. Unfortunately for him, most of the other scum team was kind of lurky, so it was hard to manufacture good cases against them beyond lurker lynch.

My current speculation on scum teams are:
Team 1: moody, Zyth, bessie
Team 2: jimbob, Ryu, Spak

I think this lineup is reasonably likely, though I suppose bessie could be Town and FrozenFlame scum, or Spak Town and plytho scum. Zyth, I’m obviously prepared to bet the farm on. Will discuss the others in due course. Ryu/Spak reads are mostly just reading between the lines on Zyth’s wagonomics, though Ryu especially is scummy for other reasons.

How am I doing so far, Zyth?

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby LaserGuy » Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:21 pm UTC

Reads of everyone else in alphabetical order.

Bessie: I appreciate that bessie’s very systematic playstyle is having difficulty keeping up with a thread that moves this fast, so her posts are a bit time-delayed compared to where the thread is often at. On first pass my impression of bessie was that she was spending a lot of time discussing PW with plytho and not engaged in too much else, but on reread I’m really liking most of her content. I find myself agreeing with most of her player assessments, and even those that I don’t (eg. Peaceful Whale), her reasoning is solid.

bessie wrote:Dark Horse – After what I’ve heard about DGames culture, I think his replacement is going to have a tough job.

Don’t worry, I brought my A game.

@bessie: Of the early claimers, mpolo, SirG, Madge, and PW, who do you honestly see as having been an alternate lynch candidate?
@bessie: You mention in your read that jimbob generally doesn’t lurk as scum. How many games have you played with him as scum?
@bessie: You were reading Gamma, Ryu, and jimbob as your ordered scummiest reads. Why did you decide to vote jimbob here when Gamma was a better wagon at the time and you thought he was scummier?

I settled on bessie as third member of Zyth’s team for a couple reasons. First is the comment Zyth made about jimbob being the strongest scum on the team. This feels like bessie’s read to me. Moody hasn’t played many recent games with jimbob, so I suspect he’d be more cautious. Bessie has, IMHO, an inflated evaluation of jimbob’s ability as a scum player that I’ve never seen any other player on these forums express. Jimbob has played scum about as frequently as bessie (ie. basically never), so most players probably shouldn’t have an opinion there, but bessie thinks quite highly of his scum play (I’ll try to dig out a quote from an older game if I can find it).

Second, I am troubled by one of bessie’s posts late in the day. This is the only part of her content that really stood out to me as truly awful. Here’s the post that she voted for jimbob in:
From my town-scum list, my current lynch candidates would be Gamma Emerald, Red Ryu, and jimbobmacdoodle. Red Ryu has posted the bulk of his content since I made that list, but from a quick skim nothing is standing out as townie to me. BoomFrog asked me to reread moody, and I’m trying to get to it, but he currently is not one of my top lynch candidates. jimbob’s felt scummy to me this game, and I don’t like this:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Red Ryu's content has taken a significant positive upswing, so I no longer want him lynched.

Why? Is it now Red Ryu is an actual real lynch candidate so he needed to move that vote? There are so many posts right now I’m trying to get a feel for the way the wagons were forming today but it’s three pages of content and I suppose I’m not getting the same feel that I would if I were following it in real time. Really not liking jimbob's content today.

vote: jimbobmacdoodle


Bessie’s reasoning for voting here is uncharacteristically weak. It’s a big game with lots happening, but jimbob’s content is not so substantial (he only had 13 posts at this point), and I have a very hard time believing that if this were a proper read she wouldn’t have made the time to point out every little detail of her concerns with jimbob. Because that’s what she does. I can see her saying “I don’t have time right now, but I’m voting for jimbob to keep the wagon moving. Will post more later.” But this isn’t what we get. She never comes back to jimbob after this point. My feeling is that Zyth felt that his wagon on jimbob was about to collapse and needed another player to come forward and vote. As I noted, I think the strategy was to lynch a player from the other scum team, so they didn’t want the wagon to end up as a race between moody and Gamma, who is presumably (scummy-looking) Town, with them all on the wrong wagon. Zyth posts here that “bessie will join us” (ie. the jimbob wagon) 2 minutes after bessie changes her vote to jimbob, even though she was reading Gamma and Ryu as scummier (and Gamma was ahead in the votes). As written, it doesn’t sound like he knows that bessie has posted this, but it comes in very quickly and confidently after her vote, but it isn't a ninja edit.

Later bessie produces a very detailed reread of moody that Zyth quickly (20 min later) turns around to try to move people off of moody. Note how much more effort and detail went into this than her lynch target. I don’t think bessie really believes her read of jimbob. She doesn’t even really give a reason for it. Compare the above with what she ultimately says about moody in this post:
I didn’t like the automatic acceptance of mpolo’s claim, and I was quite suspicious of how moody discussed in two posts how mpolo’s power could be useful to town (and even odder is that his redirect examples focus on things like cops and trackers, why not a kill which is the first thing I thought of or am I the one misunderstanding this role?) It seemed like he wanted to plant a non-threatening townie read of mpolo in everyone’s minds.

The observation that two scum teams are common as of late (I don’t think they are, just Shakespeare unless I’m forgetting something). Then the observation that we’ve only had a couple lately? If he’s scum, he has a guess as to the number of teams based on the size of his team, and would want to mislead us, but which would it be?

His content has been entirely within his meta, mostly responses not questions. I’m reading moody in isolation, and I’m just not seeing anything that screams town or scum at me. I’ll keep thinking about him as I respond to other posts and see if I get a different feel from interactions with others. I’d rather not lynch moody, but wouldn’t stand in the way of his lynch if that’s the majority choice.


She can’t find a single positive thing to comment on in moody’s play and picks out two legitimately scummy points, yet sees nothing that reads town or scum? Even if she doesn’t come to a strong conclusion here, the read is at least well-reasoned. This post feels like genuine bessie. Post on jimbob feels half-hearted and opportunistic. These two posts were done on the same day, within hours of each other, so it's not like bessie didn't have the time to do a proper commentary on jimbob.

I think bessie is probably scum with Zyth and moody.

______________________________________________________

BoomFrog: A lot of people disagreed with this post early on, which attracted a lot of the initial suspicion, but I mostly agree with the conclusions here and the reasoning, especially when he later explains in more detail, seems okay. BoomFrog is much more upfront about his explanations for his reads than he often is in the early stages of the game.

@BoomFrog: In recent games we’ve played together, you’ve often been more “cagey” than I’m seeing you play here. How is your approach different this game from some of the previous ones?

Very little for me to disagree with in his reads here, and gets on the moody train early, stays on and helps rally the wagon. Looks townie.

@BoomFrog: What’s your read on bessie?

______________________________________________________

EGW: Very systematic, asking lots of questions, demanding answers, consistently following up, revising opinions based on new information. First reads list are very concise and seem well reasoned. I find it hard to get a sense of his opinions outside of that due to his very terse posting style. Needs to post more walls. Feels townie.

@EGW: Have you played with scum!Zyth before? What is he like?

______________________________________________________

FrozenFlame: Don’t love a lot of his early content, especially this post which is using a lot of words to say very little. I’m wary of the early buddying of Sabrar (and later, plytho). Content looks better as the day goes on. Early read on jimbob looks solid, as does most of his later content, though he doesn't really make much of an effort to update his read. This post explaining why the SirG strategy works is really solid. Was one of the people pushing the jimbob wagon. Late switch to moody wagon could be a bus, but I’m not really feeling it. I think if Frozen were on moody's team he would have tried harder to protect him. Leaning town at this point.

@FrozenFlame: Do you have an updated read on jimbob?

______________________________________________________

Gamma Emerald: Not much to like here. Active lurky (mostly just lurky) throughout most of D1. Sheeps Zyth on jimbob vote, doesn’t really contribute anything to the discussion there. I don’t really like any of his content at all. Looks scummy.

@Gamma Emerald: Can we expect better content from you today? I'd rather not have to lynch you, but your current play will make a big liability in the endgame.
@Gamma Emerald: Why did you settle on jimbob instead of moody to vote?

______________________________________________________

Heury: Not much to like here either. I will have to go back and see which games heury has played in, because certainly in recent history there haven’t been that many games with two mafia teams, which makes his point about it in his first point stand out quite a bit. He then gets into a discussion with Zyth that has heury coming off pretty badly, particularly this, where he’s more concerned about being seen as scummy than actually finding scum. His reads are quite dreadful. I particularly don’t like that he repeatedly makes comments to the effect of “This looks okay, but could be scum”. Constantly hedging. The only thing that really stands out in the positive to me is his defense of Peaceful Whale. Prod dodged on Monday with a promise of reads by the end of the day, AWOL since. Looks scummy.

@heury: What happened to you in the latter half of D1?

______________________________________________________

Jimbob: HUGE read flag in his first post where he assumes that there’s two scum teams, and then backtracks that one might just be an SK.
I'm assuming two scum teams, but one might just be a Serial Killer or similar.

This phrasing is awkward and not at all how I would expect jimbob to reason this. Scum + SK is quite common around here. Two scum teams is not. Compare this post early in Shakespeare Mafia (a few months ago) where Town!jimbob calls out a bunch of people for discussing two scum teams as a possibility early:
I find it interesting that people have immediately jumped to two scum teams instead of the more traditional (around these parts) SK + scum team. I'd like explanations on why people think this, from LaserGuy, Gopher of Pern, Yoloswag, and anybody else who believes there to be two scum teams. If there are two anti-town factions (where faction is a co-aligned set of players with two or more to their number), there is no reason to assume that they both simply want to eliminate all opposition (e.g. Smalltown 2 had a faction that needed to survive to D6 to win). We cannot even assume that they are of the same size. I wouldn't be entirely surprised by two factions myself, but if there are I doubt they'll be mirrors of each other.

Jimbob was right to call this out (two of the three people mentioned, YOLO and myself were scum), and also doesn’t treat an SK as a “faction” here. The change in mindset between these two is very dubious. Scum points to Sabrar for not catching this already.

@jimbob: Can you explain how you arrived at the conclusion there are two scumteams? Can you explain the discrepancies between these quotes?

Reads here are a lot like heury’s. Wishy-washy with lots of hedging. He’s low on time, but spends a lot of that time telling us about his null reads. Here he’s reading plytho is scum, but all of the commentary he’s posted on plytho seems quite positive. Pretty much all of the commentary jimbob makes about his scum reads applies equally well to himself, so there’s that too.

@jimbob: Why were you reading plytho as scummy here when all your commentary of him is positive? What do you think about plytho defending you from the lynch at the end of D1?

I don’t like his commentary here about lurker lynches. Much like plytho’s argument against the SirG maneuver, he’s reading a fairly townie play as scummy because he isn’t in a townie frame of mind.

@jimbob: What do you think is the correct way for town to deal with lurkers?
@jimbob: What are your reads of Red Ryu, plytho and Spak?

Pretty sure he’s scum.

______________________________________________________

Madge: I think her argument for why she claimed seems plausible to me. The rest feels like Madge to me. She always feels kind of scummy to me D1, and because of her well-known loathing of D1, it’s not really alignment indicative. The various meta reads of her from Sabrar and BoomFrog I think are very reasonable and probably point her to Town.

I don’t agree at all with this:
I'm not on board with lynching SirG (definitely not with being the hammerer), but that's mostly because Around Here indies tend to be relatively harmless and/or broadly pro-town. Does OS tend to have "dangerous indies" in their games?

We have plenty of dangerous indies in these fora. SKs are very common. Survivors often kingmakers. Just in the six games I’ve played here, we’ve had two survivor kingmakers (jimbob in Diablo and kalira in Shakespeare), Town losing because they lynch an SK instead of scum (YOLO in DT). Marking as Town mostly based on meta vouch from others. Will re-evaluate when she has more content.

@Madge: Why don’t you consider these kinds of indies to be dangerous?

______________________________________________________


Maven
: Really strong scumhunting of moody here. Catches moody up in the problem of how Town would know that power chaos has happened from N0 results. His reads are very astute and he is very good at digging at inconsistencies in posts. Reminds me a lot of bessie in top form. I can’t really find anything to disagree with in his reads, and I like that he’s revising his opinions on people like BoomFrog and PW as new evidence presents itself and not sticking to early tunnels. Makes a strong case against Gamma. Probably my strongest town read at present.

@Maven: Why did you end up choosing moody over jimbob for your lynch candidate D1?

______________________________________________________

Moody: Post-flip confirmed scum.

______________________________________________________

Mpolo: Really not enough there for me to get a good feel of him. The initial claim seems a bit unnecessary, but I think it’s probably truthful and slightly more likely to come from Town than scum. Neutral for now. Get well soon.

@Mpolo
bessie: very typical play. I find myself agreeing with her very often. Nervous because she is so often town.

Can you explain what you mean here? Are you nervous that you're agreeing with someone you think is town?
@Mpolo: Zyth asked here if you were the protagonist of Portal. Is this true? It would be very helpful if you could confirm this.
@Mpolo: Did you redirect me last night?

______________________________________________________

Peaceful Whale: Super scummy start to the game. Consistent overreactions to anyone reading him as scummy. By this post it’s clear to me that he’s newbie town. If he had any scumbuddies at all, they would have told him to chill out. I spotted his posting style change when his partner came online in his last game and don’t see the same here. Gets huge townie points for being willing to hammer SirG. Goes quiet in the latter half of the game when things get serious, follows votes when requested of him. I’d be very surprised if he’s scum. Should be able to verify later if we need to.

@Peaceful Whale: You got very quiet in the last half of D1. What happened?
@Peaceful Whale: Please go through my content and ask me three good questions about anything that you don''t understand or need clarification on.
@Peaceful Whale: Can you post some updated reads? Who are the three scummiest players? Who are the three towniest?

______________________________________________________

plytho: Seems okay early on. Starts to go downhill as game progresses. Don’t care much for these early reads with most people as kind of neutral and just defaults to lurker scum. I don’t understand how he can be reading heury as town as this stage. Starts to get into the weeds with bessie a bit about some statements made regarding Peaceful Whale. Reminds me a lot of his last game where he was scum, though I do feel that it’s bessie that’s needling him a lot more this time around.

Reads noticeably more suspect here, especially his read of jimbob which I don’t buy at all. Again, his reads are basically lurker scum and he can’t convince himself to make a case on any of the active players.

I really don’t like his logic around the SirG push. It’s coming from a very scummy mindset--he doesn’t understand why sacrificing a scummy town is within the realm of townie play, is even good townie play. SirG is much scarier for town than scum, especially post claim. Scum doesn’t care about the redirect--they can just kill mpolo if that’s a worry, but scum can pretty easily just dodge the redirect for quite a while if they want, and the whole time this is going on, mpolo is throwing random players at SirG and causing chaos with our abilities. SirG is a huge liability to town because his powers can easily help scum win, he can vote with scum, and town has to eat a penalty to kill him. Yes, in all likelihood the person hammering SirG will be a scummy town, but that’s FINE. Losing a scummy town and scummy indie is better than just losing a scummy town. It’s better than a no lynch. The plan to deal with the player that refuses to hammer SirG is simple--we lynch that player with extreme prejudice (as FrozenFlame points out). Plytho never even considers this line of play as a possibility even though it’s a much stronger play than hoping we get lucky and redirect a kill to SirG. I’m a little perplexed why Sabrar also didn’t arrive at this conclusion. He’s usually good at working through this sort of thing. Yes it didn't work D1 because we didn't have the votes at the time. Had Ryu been pushed to L-2 it would have worked fine. This plan doesn't rely on luck, just on in a determined town.

plytho starts behaving in very troubling ways as the day progresses. He admits that Gamma is scummier than Ryu, but keeps voting for Ryu. Switches later when the wagon is moving in that direction. Surprised when the wagon moves away and turns to jimbob. Defends jimbob here and tries to divert his lynch here, here, here, and here.

plytho is DEFINITELY bothered by jimbob being the wagon and is trying to push against the person who is pushing that wagon. He’s spent pretty much every post since this began defending jimbob. Could be scum with jimbob.

@plytho: Do you feel it is better to vote no lynch than mislynch a scummy town?
@plytho: Why were you defending jimbob so much?
@plytho: If Zyth is scum, who are his scumbuddies?
@plytho: Do you think jimbob is Town?
______________________________________________________

Ryu: Main thing that stands out his his strong stance against indies, but unwillingness to actually go through with, say, sacrificing himself for SirG. Only seems to really get into the game when people start pushing votes on him. Not much that I find particularly townie. Scum lean.

@Ryu: What are your reads of Spak, plytho and jimbob?

______________________________________________________

Sabrar: So many posts. Mentioned this in my jimbob read but I'm a little surprised that Sabrar didn't react to jimbob talking about two scum teams given jimbob’s behavior in Shakespeare. Sabrar has an encyclopedic knowledge of older games here. Jester read on Zyth is a bit weird. I guess this isn't the first time he's done this though so I'll let it pass. Was going back and forth on him for a little while early in the game, started looking more like Town!Sabrar as the day progressed.

Generally my feeling is Sabrar is a bit more passive this game than I've seen recently. I mean this in terms of aggression and not post count obviously.

@Sabrar: Any particular reason you're acting this way?
@Sabrar: Why don't you think the SirG plan will work if there is otherwise a clear lynch candidate?

Suspicions of Zyth later feel a lot like what I expect from Town!Sabrar, asked some great questions. Big townie points for rallying lynch on moody. Overall I have him solidly town at this stage.

@Sabrar: If Zyth and moody are scumbuddies, who do you think is with them?

______________________________________________________

SirGabriel/Amrock: Not really much to say here. Active lurked for most of the game, claimed D1 and gambit pretty much failed. Best thing to do is follow Zyth/Frozen/BoomFrog plan and force someone to defuse the bomb. We’ll need to deal with him sooner rather than later.

@Amrock: Are you planning on scumhunting and working with town going forward?
@Amrock: Is your double voter victory condition a solo win?

______________________________________________________

Spak: Barely makes an appearance in my notes. Makes a case on BoomFrog that is plausible but I think this is a forum meta difference, mostly. Early claimers here are usually Town so I am fine with giving a few early town points for this. Note on Madge that BoomFrog wasn't the only person to read her as town off minimal posting. Beyond the BoomFrog commentary I see very little of note. This post is a lot better. Don’t have a solid read based on content here.

@Spak: What are your reads of jimbob, plytho, and Red Ryu?

______________________________________________________

Znirk:
Asks good questions. Forget mafia had daychat which I'm willing to ascribe cautiously as a towntell (@plytho: Can you figure out why?). Shares my concerns about plytho regarding PW. End of day contributions stymied by real life. Not enough data to say anything conclusive but my gut reaction is towntell is real. I’ve got him down as Town lean.

@Znirk: Any chance we'll get to see more of you today?
@Znirk: What's your read on Zyth?

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LaserGuy
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby LaserGuy » Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:22 pm UTC

Judgment: Amrock
Vote: Zyth

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LaserGuy
Posts: 4575
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:33 pm UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby LaserGuy » Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:22 pm UTC

Here's my stream-of-consciousness notes as I was reading through:

Page1
Spoiler:
-Sabrar sort-of softclaims something from N0 @FrozenFlame. Not sure why he’s putting it out there so early.
-Peaceful Whale’s first post looks scummy, but could be a misunderstanding at this point
-Peaceful Whale second post is pretty scummy.
-SirG post is interesting as he doubles the vote on Sabrar which is not common in this site meta, even in RVS. Not sure if he does this normally though as some players do break this convention (including me).
-Zyth/Zen reminds me of SDK. If he’s really as good as he says he is, then if he survives to D3, he’s probably scum (likewise, FrozenFlame and BoomFrog are probably scum if they survive to D3)
-Peaceful Whale panicks after Zyth post.
-mpolo softclaims his power. I guess I can understand why this information might be useful to town, though I’m not sure about it, especially in a game this size.
-Sabrar defends Peaceful Whale. Odd.
-Sabrar/moody guess setup specs with 4 scum, which seems a bit small for this size of game to me. Shelving this for later.
-PW continues his string of scummy posts. Suggests a massclaim which is just… insane at this point.
-I like Znirk’s early questions.
-Heury and SirG both suggested a multiball setup as a possibility. Filing for later. Heury first post looks a bit scummy.
-I like Zyth/Zen’s style.
-Will need to come back to this post by PW later. Still looks scummy, but a bit of newbie town PW peeking through here.


Page 2
Spoiler:
-Not sure about moody’s town read on mpolo here. I’d like to hear why mpolo claimed first. On the whole, early claimers are more likely town in my (limited) experience though. I’d give mpolo a town lean for this maybe.
-Good info from FrozenFlame about setup. Other than that, not loving this post.
-Heury looking scummy after this exchange with Zyth. I’d probably move my vote to heury here.
-PW defending heury. Gamma too.
-moody answers questions for PW.
-PW is flailing under very little pressure. Going to change to town lean on him… any experienced partner should have told him to chill out by now.
-Not sure where Sabrar gets a jester read on Zyth from. Zyth looks like town to me.
-SirG is active lurking.
-bessie posts, always good fun. Mentions two scum teams as well. Good questions and analysis as always.
-[quote=”EGW”]Hello XKCD. This is Ranmaru from Dgames. Catching up shortly. I highly implore everyone to be concise as possible. I don't want to have plenty of walls, it makes it harder to read the thread. If you really need to, please use a spoiler. I am a he.[/quote]
Hahahaha :D You might have wanted to check some of the recent games here on xkcd before you signed up. Walls of text you will get aplenty.
-I do agree with EGW about Sabrar feeling scummy though.


Page 3
Spoiler:
-EGW looking townie.
-Sabrar looking worse. Curious about his supposed N0 claim.
-I feel like the dog-barking stuff is getting dangerously close to breaking rule 7 or 8.
-jimbob also assumes two scum teams, though he backtracks that one of them might just be an SK. I’m raising a very questioning eyebrow at these repeated mentions of this. Calling the second scumteam an SK is a really weird phrasing from this site meta POV for jimbob, since SK is much more common. Compare to this post from jimbob in Shakespeare (about halfway down), where he calls out a number of people for commenting (correctly) on two scumteams rather than scum + SK. If there are two scumteams, jimbob is on one of them.
-Have to think about mpolo claim a bit more. There’s some clever reasons that scum could also claim this. On the whole, sticking with townie on this though as it’s a pretty risky gambit for scum.
-jimbob reads list looks scummy. Lots of speculation for scummy motives, not a lot of follow-up. Not like him.
-I kind of agree with Sabrar that PW’s fake reads list looks scummy, but mostly only in the context of all the other scummy behaviour he’s done so far. However, my gut is telling me that PW is probably town. The mistakes he’s making, the kinds of mistakes he’s making, aren’t really what I expect to see from him when he should have some partners with daychat.
-I’m suspicious of this post by moody about power chaos. There’s no way that a single player in isolation would be able to tell that this happened or not. Townie points to Sabrar for catching this.
-FrozenFlame buddying Sabrar.
-I agree with most of what BoomFrog is saying here. Town points to him.
-plytho feels much better this game than he did last game. OTOH, I made such a fuss about his meta last game that I imagine he’d be more careful as scum.
-moody’s list, mostly summaries. Feels like he’s summarizing a lot of the wrong points though. Feels a bit scummy.
-heury continues to look scummy.
-EGW notes FrozenFlame more active than usual for D1. Filing away for later.


Page 4
Spoiler:
-Some cultural differences getting sorted out.
-heury only has weak reads on bessie and plytho? I’m flabbergasted. Heury’s thoughts in this sequence are really all over the place.
-Zyth was misdirected into thinking two scum teams is common here, which it really isn’t. Scum + SK is pretty common, but two scum teams is very rare. We’ll see who decides to set him straight. More useful setup info in this post.
-Moody’s post about two scum teams is a bit garbled.
-My response to Sabrar’s reason for voting FrozenFlame is o.O.
-Peaceful Whale is flailing badly. (Also, his fake breadcrumb last game was perfect).
-Gamma manages to post a wall of replies that says nothing.
-To Sabrar’s follow-up for voting FrozenFlame I give a O.o. The probabilities haven’t changed between when the game started and now… this was always a <1% scenario.
-Spak’s post here is a bit active lurky.
-plytho’s reads aren’t as detailed as he normally does, but I guess that’s to be expected in a game this size. Mostly looks okay. I feel like he’s overlooking a few people that I find a bit scummy (eg. jimbob, Gamma) in that he’s just commenting on their lack of content rather than what they’ve actually said.
-BoomFrog’s reasoning on mpolo seems okay. Pretty much same as mine. On the other hand this post I don’t like at all. I don’t get much in the way of good pings from BoomFrog, but I spent a good long time thinking about this one. Making a note to come back to this later.


Page 5
Spoiler:
-If heury flips scum, jimbob likely is as well. Read of heury here is nonsense.
-BoomFrog is a classy guy.
-Agree with Maven that setup spec is likely pointless if not counterproductive in this instance. Though we do a LOT of setup spec here, it’s usually to generate content D1 or to cheese the endgame, and we have lots of other content D1 to go with in this game. I like the pressure on moody.
-Just going to leave that post from Madge alone for now.
-Really interested in hearing why mpolo claimed. Lots of good arguments being made about this. Going to move him back to neutral until I get more data.
-heury spends a lot of time making comments about how someone could be scummy without really following up with why they are. He did this a lot as scum in his last game. Have to check if he does this as town as well.
-Heury’s explanation of his read on Zyth is really bizarre.
-Sabrar has a strong meta read on Town!Madge. I suspect he’s probably right here.
-I wonder if Sabrar just remembered scum have daychat.
-Madge’s role is hilarious.
-bessie looks fine.


Page 6
Spoiler:
-heury is scum.
-Red Ryu appears with a couple of one line posts, not really much to work with. Is this his normal play? Feels kind of scummy at this point.
-Maven’s series of posts here all look pretty townie. Will think about his comments re: BoomFrog.
-EGW keeping an eye on SirG viewing but not posting in thread. I agree this is problematic in a daychat game. SirG looking scummier.
-Not too much of interest from bessie other than her push on PW and connecting him to plytho. Still not sure how to read her yet.
-SirG’s post feels halfway between a prod-dodge and active lurking.
-plytho and bessie discussion starting to vaguely remind me of their… extensive… discussions of last game. At least this time it’s much more game-relevant. Interesting that this time I feel bessie is egging plytho on more than the opposite.
-I don’t care for EGW’s reply to SirG’s question…. Doesn’t really provide any useful information about Zen.
-moody’s post is pretty bad. The reads here are very half-hearted. This seems neutral and that seems neutral and obvtown is townie. Ultimately concedes that his initial reaction about N0 role chaos was unfounded, which begs the question about why this occurred to him as a possibility.
-Gamma is fishing for info on Madge’s role.
-plytho has no non-lurker scum reads… five lurkers at the bottom of his list. There’s a bit of analysis on here, but it’s mostly on clearing players townier than him. Don’t like this much. Scummy.
-I agree with Sabrar’s suspicions of moody. And plytho. Feeling better about Sabrar
-I’m curious as to how bessie thinks Madge’s claim could be false. It’s such an outlandish claim for the site meta that it really feels like a stretch to me that she would manufacture this mechanic out of whole cloth. OTOH, I don’t feel that this claim is particularly alignment indicative, either. It’s entirely possible that Madge could be an SK who gains extra abilities by stacking votes as well, for example.


Page 7
Spoiler:
-Peaceful Whale makes an honest attempt at some reads. A few of the reads are kind of quirky. Explanation of moody read farther down is kind of garbled.
-SirG continues to active lurk.
-Making a note to reread the commentary on BoomFrog. A lot of the new guys seem to be consistently reading him as scummy. Especially since BoomFrog’s posts seem quite reasonable to me.
-Not loving the push for complete lurker lynch from EGW and others.
-I have a visceral reaction to Frozen’s suggestion that we policy lynch Town!PW on the grounds that he’ll be a liability in the endgame. I understand where the mentality comes from, but from an xkcd-meta-community point of view, and a fairly new player myself, I really don’t like this kind of play on newbies. Other than that, I agree with most of his commentary here. Looking townie at present.
-jimbob here is a bit better. I can buy him struggling for time in such a large game, but I have a feeling that he’s had this problem before in other games and has done a much better job of coming up with decent content.
-bessie tunneling plytho, which is meta-fine. Would like to see some reads from her on some other players beyond plytho and PW.
-Red Ryu is a class act. But might still be scum.
-Oooh… really nice catch by Zyth on Frozen. Lemme get some popcorn.
-Madge’s explanation of her power makes sense except for asking scum to vote for her at the end. Her reads are unhelpful, but this is par for the course with her. Townie. I see Sabrar agrees with this, so yeah, this is fine.
-Zyth has a 99.893% scum read. Right. I’m assuming it’s heury? Only person that really makes sense based on earlier play.
-plytho defending himself against bessie. Going to have to come back to this exchange sometime later. Too many references to keep track of at this point.
-plytho switching lurker lynches to Red Ryu. Hmm… Shelving for later.


Page 8
Spoiler:
-plytho makes some good comments about PW’s reads.
-Reads from EGW. Town reads look okay. His point about BoomFrog finding jimbob scummy but not pressing further seems on point, as BoomFrog has definitely been around. I agree about moody and jimbob, though I feel that jimbob is much scummier. Makes a solid case for a moody-mpolo-BoomFrog team.
-PW votes BoomFrog at EGW’s suggestion, with some reservation.
-Znirk finally points out to Zyth directly that two scum teams aren’t common here. Forgets that mafia have daychat. Context makes this more likely to be a true towntell, IMHO.
-Big post from Sabrar. Lots of walls this page. I have very similar feelings to him about BoomFrog, though not necessarily for the same reasons.
-Maven makes an interesting observation about how meta reads are done in DGames.
-BoomFrog explains his Page 1-2 play. I find myself mostly agreeing with the logic here. “Almost certainly” multiple groups of scum though? Hmm… I guess I agree with this simply on the basis now that so many players have mentioned this definitively that somebody must know something.
-I agree with Sabrar about Gamma and Ryu. Probably at least one scum among the two.
-Bessie explains her playstyle.
-bessie talks about PW’s reads. This is a really good post and gets to the heart of the problem with PW’s reads list… something he’s done before, actually, IIRC.
-PW has an ability to prove he’s town somehow, apparently. I think PW is misreading the flow of the game here quite a bit by providing any extra info about his role. He isn’t in any danger of the lynch, but any time someone points out scummy behavior, he overreacts. Interesting that he points to bessie as the towniest player, which is not the case at all, IMHO (not saying she’s scum, but I don’t see anything in her play that makes her feel definitively townie to me). If he did have a strong reason to prove his towniness, he should probably target Madge or EGW. This all feels like newbie town to me.


Page 9
Spoiler:
-Not much to say about first bit of this.
-Oh, SirG is claiming GlaDOS. I’m not sure I believe all of this. The way this role is constructed makes it kind of trivial for this player to both be kingmaker and/or win the game. I will have to think on this some more. Gut reaction is that we should probably get SirG out of the game as quickly as possible.
-Don’t agree with Sabrar’s read on Zyth. There’s definitely some weirdness in playstyle here, but nothing that I see that points to Zyth being scum. Other reads look fine.
-SirG isn’t going to play ball with Town, so he needs to go ASAP. I’m voting him here.
-I think Znirk isn’t giving himself enough credit here, since the type of discussion that plytho is engaging in is very much the same type of thing that ended up getting him lynched D1 in the last game.
-PW’s commentary on his reads doesn’t really answer the question directed at him (where he harvested that information from), but it’s an improvement. PW, it’s okay to say (in your initial read) “I agree with what Sabrar said here about moody” and base your read on that. But it’s very helpful to us (and to you!) to indicate when you’re doing this, so that if it turns out that Sabrar is scum, you can go back and re-evaluate your read on moody and see if it still holds up.
-Reads from bessie. I don’t really see anything here that I can disagree with. Going to nudge her into the townie pile, but I really need to have a long look at her discussion with plytho and PW.
-Reads from BoomFrog. A bit sparse though his scum reads are pretty similar to mine..
-mpolo posts! Uh, I don’t really get what he’s trying to say here. He claimed just so we’d know there might be other redirectors in the game?
-bessie’s reply to BoomFrog is interesting. Would Madge/mpolo/SirG/PW have been lynch candidates without their claims? Madge, certainly not. Mpolo, maybe, but no more than other lurkers, and a lot of people have found him scummy, or have found those defending him, scummy, over this claim. PW was off the table before he softclaimed. SirG as far as I’m concerned ought to be the D1 lynch, with the scummiest player pulling the trigger. Otherwise we’ll never get rid of him--it’s not going to get any easier going forward. So I guess I agree in principle that townies tend to overclaim, but I’m not sure I agree in practice that this has as strong effect on gameplay as bessie seems to feel it does.
-Zyth’s reply to Sabrar is pretty much what I figured he was going for.


Page 10
Spoiler:
-Can’t figure out why Zyth isn’t pushing his supposed 99% scumread. Agree with EGW that the last couple pages Zyth hasn’t seemed that sharp.
-bessie pushing plytho and BoomFrog for rolefishing.
-Going to have to go back and reread this interaction between Sabrar and Zyth more closely to see if there’s anything there.
-Unless Zyth has a cop result on his scumread and is collecting data, I don’t really understand why he’s holding back.
-Don’t really agree with jimbob about D1 pressure--anything that generates content in D1 is helpful. But at least I see his argument here. His argument re: SirG is well reasoned. There’s definitely something fishy with his claim. Definitely jimbob’s best post of the game so far.
-This phrasing from mpolo is weird
bessie: very typical play. I find myself agreeing with her very often. Nervous because she is so often town.
Why is mpolo nervous that he’s agreeing with a townie?
-plytho not keen on lynching DH.


Page 11
Spoiler:
-I like the idea of redirecting onto SirG. A little tricky to do since we can’t predict where the kill is coming from though. Can’t hurt to try, I guess.
-This post from plytho is solid. I am also confused about Zyth.
-This post feels a lot more like typical jimbob.
-Thinking about getting people to vote first/last on SirG. I can imagine a townie with a somewhat mediocre power being willing to do this. Convincing a true scum player might actually be tricky, but, well, that’s an answer in and of itself. Having a day-vig on hand or something would be helpful here.
-Madge makes a good point about her role claim. Assuming this is her actual role, the logic here makes perfect sense to me.
-Sabrar reads list looks good. He isn’t being lazy and just throwing the lurkers at the bottom (not that I’d expect him to), and his choices are well thought out, even if I don’t agree with all of them.
-FrozenFlame’s commentary seems reasonable. Sabrar did a good job checking his reaction to survivor claim here.
-Red Ryu’s posts continue to be terrible. Have I moved him to scum pool already? Definitely scum pool.
-Am I reading right that mpolo asked about whether the bomb blast from GlaDOS could be redirected? I had never thought of doing it that way. Kind of nifty, though I’m not sure how it would work.


Page 12
Spoiler:
-Where did Zyth get this from? Mpolo never claimed his character. This post is really fishy.
-This post from FrozenFlame looks pretty solid. Rare to see people admitting their mistakes or misconceptions.
-This post by jimbob is bad. Lynching lurkers is very important for Town, even if the lurkers are townie. Making a note to keep an eye on which lurkers he’s trying to keep alive. Not Red Ryu, obviously. Maybe Gamma or Spak?
-Madge and plytho catch Red trying to case her as indie.


Page 13
Spoiler:
-Working out how to deal with SirG.
-SirG’s wincon only seems hard because he claimed D1. This is much easier than conventional survivor, and he has two different ways to win. I strongly suspect that SirG’s second wincon is a solo win that blocks Town/Scum victories.
-FrozenFlame has correctly put together all of the problems and solutions regarding SirG, I think, except for the tiny wrinkle of how we actually force the lynch to hammer him.
-moody reads list pretty much has everyone as neutral stil. How can you be “leaning slightly scummy”? Wishy-washy and noncommital. Town read on jimbob seems a bit out-of-place, and ends up voting Ryu same as jimbob. Hmm.
-Oh, there’s Peaceful Whale again. He has gone awfully quiet recently. Huge townie points for offering to hammer SirG. Town should seriously consider taking this.
-Spak’s reads very weak. Heury read is basically “I like that he’s active”, without commentary on the quality of those posts, for example.
-SirG quits. Hope the real-life issues sort themselves out for you. I agree that GlaDOS is kind of a sucky role.
-EGW likes getting people to vote with him. This is definitely a culture difference between here and DGames. I’ve never seen someone post these sorts of things I don’t think.


Page 14
Spoiler:
-Maven helpfully points out that Zyth likes to lead town as scum. This post is excellent and I think most of the reads here are very solid. Noting his suspicions of Sabrar, but, that really is how Sabrar tends to play. Though, thinking about it, Sabrar does seem a bit more passive than I’ve seen recently. I’ll make a note to reread him.
-Don’t really understand this post from Ryu. Not even sure what he’s responding to here since he’s quoted a giant wall and giving a one line reply to it. Understand this is a problem with playing on phone, but Ryu isn’t really communicating clearly at all here.
-Ryu makes almost identical points to plytho about Dark Horse lynch.
-Ryu’s reads are very hard for me to parse again. Moody is apparently his strongest scumread, but isn’t even listed as a read. Not a lot of town reads here.
-I guess Zyth’s 99.83% scum read is Ryu?
-Agree with Maven that SirG’s slot is going to need to be killed at some point, and is terrible to replace. No fun to be had there at all.
-Not sure why Madge is claiming indies are harmless around here. Most indies are SKs and survivors. SK is not harmless. Survivor is very kingmakery. In three of the six games I’ve played here, an indie basically decided the endgame (Diablo Survivor!jimbob was kingmaker; in Dark Tower town lost because the lynch SK!Yolo instead of scum; in Shakespeare Survivor!kalira was kingmaker). The other three games didn’t have indies.
-plytho discusses problems with the SirG push. I don’t think this is insurmountable if there was a wagon that we could push up to L-2 or something first. Doesn’t look likely on D1. Don’t agree about scum caring about redirecting to SirG. This is low probability and fairly easy for scum to solve. Could also end up killing town vig instead.


Page 15
Spoiler:
-bessie’s town to scum is interesting. Despite not liking his claim, mpolo is very high on her list. A few other players seem quite out-of-place. Has bessie done full reads on everyone? Have to double check to see where some of these are coming from.
-Had a ping about Madge’s power, not going to discuss yet, but hopefully writing this down will remind me to come back to this later.
-Best wishes mpolo.
-Agree so much with this. Better not to quote at all in this instance.
-plytho’s mindset here is scummy. Townie about to get mislynched would definitely be volunteering to hammer SirG, but plytho never even considers this scenario.
-jimbob adds Gamma to his lurker lynch pile, likes Spak content. Going to have to go back at some point and make a record of all of the lynch piles for everyone. Just don’t have the time right now.


Page 16
Spoiler:
-Sabrar helpfully posts aggregated totals, but the player-by-player are much more helpful for later scum hunting.
-I agree with Maven that SirG’s second win condition is likely a solo win. This has the potential to screw us over badly. Also agree with Maven that Gamma is scummy as f. Excellent lynch candidate.
-Interesting to see the pushback against Gamma lynch. Plytho dodges the question of why he prefers Ryu to Gamma (even though he thinks Gamma might be scummier), and doesn’t move his vote. moody’s reaction is basically the same. Sabrar at least justifies his choice.
-Gamma leaning toward Red Ryu. A lot of scummy players like this wagon. Best that townies stay far away. Other than that, kind of baffled that Gamma doesn’t understand how his play is scummy here.
-BoomFrog correctly assesses the SirG issues. I suspect he also pulled Red from the list after all of his scumreads seem to be keen on voting him.
-plytho finally votes Gamma


Page 17
Spoiler:
-Zyth’s list is a bit surprising, especially relative positions of Ryu and Gamma.
-Gamma isn’t reading the thread at all.
-Znirk shows up and picks up some scum points for me for his vote on Madge. Town needs to be organizing the lynch at this point. Madge’s powers will have to wait till another day.
-BoomFrog has the right idea. Town!xkcd players may get burned by not getting a majority lynch, or, more likely, getting a bad one (Ryu).
-I will want to hear at post-mortem about why YOLO was so cagey with what was happening with Dark Horse.
-jimbob and Gamma are probably scumbuddies.
-Zyth’s long-awaited reads. Very thoughtful. Again, play reminds me a lot of SDK. Though again, SDK is a wizard at both town and scum. My interpretations here a very different--eg. I see plytho’s reaction to SirG wagon as scummy since he doesn’t understand the townie mindset. I like his commentary on Sabrar and bessie, a little surprised at his townread of Gamma. Case against Ryu looks good… I do find Ryu scummy, I just am alarmed that all of the OTHER scummy players are scrambling to lynch him. Have to think about this a bit more. Lynching either Ryu or Gamma will give GREAT information though.


Page 18
Spoiler:
-Useful meta read by EGW on Spak.
-Granted, Ryu does look pretty scummy
-Feeling better about bessie.
-I don’t know what to make of this post from Zyth.
-Maybe not. This post is really awful.


Page 19
Spoiler:
-plytho getting in a bit of trouble here. Leaning scum on him. I also think that some of the confusion that I’m seeing is probably from either 1) we’ve picked out the bulk of the scummy players and they’re all sowing chaos to try to produce a no-lynch or 2) there’s two scum teams both throwing each other under the bus. I’m sure there’s some townies mixed in there too, but there’s definitely scum in our net.
-plytho is probably scum.. This whole argument is bogus. SirG is much scarier for town than scum, especially post claim. Scum doesn’t care about the redirect--they can just kill mpolo if that’s a worry, but scum can pretty easily just dodge the redirect if they want, and the whole time this is going on, mpolo is throwing random players at SirG and causing chaos with our abilities. SirG is a huge liability to town because his powers can easily help scum win, he can vote with scum, and town has to eat a penalty to kill him. Yes, in all likelihood the person hammering SirG will be a scummy town, but that’s FINE. Losing a scummy town and scummy indie is better than just losing a scummy town. It’s better than a no lynch. The plan to deal with the player that refuses to hammer SirG is simple--we lynch that player with extreme prejudice. I’m a little perplexed why Sabrar also didn’t arrive at this conclusion. He’s usually good at working through this sort of thing.
-Also, I feel this comment by Zyth may turn out to be pretty prescient.
-plytho’s case here on Zyth looks pretty weak. But at least plytho is trying to read somebody as scum. But: DH push is fine. If mod isn’t going to deal with inactive, then Town has to. Plytho doesn’t say he has a problem with any of Zyth’s reads, just that they’re late. They’re still well before deadline (unlike heury’s reads which will likely come 3 hours before deadline), so this isn’t scummy, IMHO. plytho is DEFINITELY bothered by jimbob being the wagon. He’s spent pretty much every post since this began defending jimbob. SirG plan is townie.


Page 20
Spoiler:
-plytho continues to defend jimbob. Surprising he feels so strongly about a lurky neutral read.
-plytho jumps to another wagon, despite the fact that his reads of both moody and jimbob are essentially the same.
-Lots of vote haggling. Going to have to reread a lot of this post-flip. Sabrar and plytho moving on Zyth simultaneously is interesting though.


Page 21
Spoiler:
-Sabrar’s push on Zyth feels like Town Sabrar.
-Thank you FrozenFlame for explaining this to plytho. While I don’t think SirG wagon is possible D1 with so many potential wagons out there, this is absolutely the correct townie play to deal with him, and the fact that plytho can’t get there is pretty damning.
-BoomFrog is town. I don’t like Sabrar buddying plytho, but it’s possible Sabrar is still Town anyway.


Page 22-24
Spoiler:
-Lots of wagon haggling. Sabrar making good points about Zyth defending moody. Going to have to reread this after flips.
-Look like wagon is going moody.
-BoomFrog is town.
-Didn’t moody just claim scum?
-Yup, he did.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby plytho » Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:35 pm UTC

@LaserGuy: who should be the last vote on amrock and how will you convince that person?
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby LaserGuy » Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:42 pm UTC

plytho wrote:@LaserGuy: who should be the last vote on amrock and how will you convince that person?


Probably best if I do it. The Judgment vote doesn't really give us a way to force people to lynch GlaDOS since it doesn't have a hammer vote. I am in a scummy slot with a negative utility ability. It's better for Town if I'm not around in the endgame.

In a normal lynch scenario, I don't see any problems with the plan FrozenFlame had proposed earlier.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby plytho » Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:44 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:@plytho: Do you feel it is better to vote no lynch than mislynch a scummy town?
No. I’ve expanded my argument in my opening post today. I think the main challenge is to get consensus on the scummiest looking player without a forced deadline. Secondly I think that the idea that we could get rid of scum that way is demonstrably false and could be planted by scum. Thirdly the plan is no-risk for scum, which is why they would be inclined to support it. (See also my opening post today.)
LaserGuy wrote:@plytho: Why were you defending jimbob so much?
Because I really didn’t trust Zyth. This is well documented.
LaserGuy wrote:@plytho: If Zyth is scum, who are his scumbuddies?
moody, maybe Gamma as well?, I need to take a closer look at bessie
LaserGuy wrote:@plytho: Do you think jimbob is Town?
I don’t know. I’m not convinced by your two scum team theory yet (I need a little more time to go through your arguments.) But if there are two scum teams he might be on the rival team to moody’s. If there aren’t he’s probably town.

LaserGuy wrote:
plytho wrote:@LaserGuy: who should be the last vote on amrock and how will you convince that person?


Probably best if I do it. The Judgment vote doesn't really give us a way to force people to lynch GlaDOS since it doesn't have a hammer vote. I am in a scummy slot with a negative utility ability. It's better for Town if I'm not around in the endgame.

In a normal lynch scenario, I don't see any problems with the plan FrozenFlame had proposed earlier.
Very noble of you. What should we do if you bail at the last minute?
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby LaserGuy » Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:50 pm UTC

plytho wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:@plytho: Do you feel it is better to vote no lynch than mislynch a scummy town?


No. I’ve expanded my argument in my opening post today. I think the main challenge is to get consensus on the scummiest looking player without a forced deadline. Secondly I think that the idea that we could get rid of scum that way is demonstrably false and could be planted by scum. Thirdly the plan is no-risk for scum, which is why they would be inclined to support it. (See also my opening post today.)


Absolutely, if there is no consensus, or if consensus doesn't come until late, then this won't work. No way it was going to work D1. But D3-D4 it probably would be quite effective.

plytho wrote:
In a normal lynch scenario, I don't see any problems with the plan FrozenFlame had proposed earlier.


Very noble of you. What should we do if you bail at the last minute?


Lynch me tomorrow or vig me.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby #HBC | Zyth » Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:53 pm UTC

Judgement Vote: Amrock

Vote: Spak

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby plytho » Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:55 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:Lynch me tomorrow or vig me.

Did you forget vig won't work?
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby LaserGuy » Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:57 pm UTC

plytho wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:Lynch me tomorrow or vig me.

Did you forget vig won't work?


No. The immunity is only for one night. Someone can vig me N3, or lynch me D3 if I end up with immunity on N2.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby plytho » Mon Sep 18, 2017 6:04 pm UTC

Good point, I guess I'm down with the plan. (vig is also irrelevant probably with maven's death)

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