Crossover Mafia | Game!

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bessie
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby bessie » Tue Sep 19, 2017 7:53 am UTC

Amrock wrote:Hello!!!! I'm a survivor which means I win with whoever I want!!! I also have the ability to give people a double vote - I gave it to frozen flame last night.

I haven't read the game and don't blame you if you lynch me though. But I'm a kind soul, please realize this!
Hi Amrock! Welcome to the forum. I appreciate you replacing, and I’m sorry that you replaced into an already doomed slot in your first game here.

Evil George Washington wrote:Laserguy: I have had some issues with Bessie mostly due to her not really engaging with me when I try to engage her. Is this normal for her? Does she always prioritize analyzing over interacting with others via conversation?
Yes. And I’m not usually on line when others are. I don’t play on my work computer for reasons (they track my browsing), and I don’t like to play from my ipad or phone for other reasons. But I am going to make an effort to be current and to converse with you today. I’ll also try to be on line more often in the mornings before I go to work.

LaserGuy wrote:
Peaceful Whale wrote:I've got information for town about who is town. Maybe I'll tell later,

Given how much you've already revealed about your role, I don't imagine there's much harm in revealing your target at some point during the day. Maybe someone else can chime in if they can think of a reason not to.
Why would you say this? It wouldn’t be customary for someone to reveal a cop result on a townie, unless the townie was in danger of being lynched.

Sabrar wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:@Sabrar: Any particular reason you're acting this way?
Remember Shakespeare? Multiple players thought that D2!Sabrar was 'somehow different' from D1!Sabrar but noone gave any specifics. I am unable to answer this question for the same reason.
Noted.

#HBC | Zyth wrote:I'm sort of a weak comparison cop. Each night I give someone the ability to send me two names the next night, from those names I get an aligned or not aligned result. N0 I gave it to Sabrar, but the names he sent obviously got redirected to Amrock.
Why Sabrar? Why not someone you know? Pre post edit, somewhat answered here. I would still like to know why Sabrar? Why not me me me?

Peaceful Whale wrote:Are we claiming now? Or should I wait?
You should wait to claim until there is a need for you to claim.

LaserGuy wrote:bessie likes to tunnel on people and is very persistent. It takes a lot to make her give it up.
:mrgreen:

Peaceful Whale wrote:Sabar, doesn't wrong about Bessie, hunt actual scum!

Edit: oops, it's important I fix that error.
Sabar, doesn't worry about Bessie, hunt actual scum!
Peaceful Whale, you received a punishment for editing a post. Then you broke the rules again and posted in the night cycle, earning a second penalty (and you also edited that post). NEVER HIT THE EDIT BUTTON! Sabrar is correct, YOLOSWAG can put more votes on you or worse, he can modkill you. When we write a post and change our minds on something before posting it, we write “pre post edit” or “pedit” to show the progression of thought. It doesn’t mean we edited the post after it was posted.

Don’t worry about misspellings and other grammatical errors. All of our posts are full of them. If you need to correct something, quote yourself and make another post with the correction.

Please ask us questions if you don’t understand something, and someone will answer questions about gameplay and rules truthfully. Or send a pm to YOLOSWAG. This is very important, because we don’t want you modkilled over this.

Madge wrote:Whoever asked me how I can prove I become a tree stump if I kill anyone: let me hammer, turn me into a tree stump, and then when I try to vote my vote won't get counted. It's an irreversible way to test part of my claim, admittedly, but it'll beat y'all mislynching me. (Also, I guess it means I can hammer GLaDOS at the same time if you want me to prove it, since I would be the least valuable townie in that situation since I won't have any pro-town powers in future).
Not necessarily. What will make you the least valuable townie is if you refuse to scumhunt of contribute any useful content. Like, if all your posts are like this:
Madge wrote:I don't even know. Wine with moody and jimbob, zyth, glados... so much to keep track of. Add to that that there's people like EGW that I've never played with before and don't know how to read (again, who am i kidding, I don't know how to read anyone).


Evil George Washington wrote:Hey Bessie. Have you gotten a closer look at Boomfrog yet like you said? I want your thoughts on my Boom case and our interaction in recent pages.
Can you point to anything in particular? I’ve been typing for hours.

Will read/respond to Zyth’s posts (if applicable) later.

Ninja’d by a few posts.

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Evil George Washington
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Evil George Washington » Tue Sep 19, 2017 7:58 am UTC

Mostly our interactions on page 27. I also was asking if you looked into him after you mentioned you were going to twice (iirc). It seems you might have, since you said my case reinforced your pings. How does all that affect your read on him currently?

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby #HBC | Zyth » Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:02 am UTC

My thoughts on your Boom case Ran, as you requested. My comments in blue.

Evil George Washington wrote:BoomFrog Case

First Post

Here he tells Sabrar that there is no need for clarification, and votes Peace Whale. This is obviously to help Zen get the ball rolling to lift out of RVS. This was not a question or concern to Sabrar.

Roller Coaster

This is one thing I find questionable from Boomfrog. This wasn’t as understanding as I would expect. To me, a player asking a person to clarify doesn’t show scum indicative mindset so I wonder why he arrived to this conclusion. I’m also not sure how he believed in PW being scum simply from that link. Boomfrog states he scumread Sabrar but his initial post showed no signs of progression of this thought process. He did not question or vote Sabrar, which shows he also did not care to sort him. It makes no sense for him to say that he had a concern with Sabrar which would lead to him telling him to refrain from clarifying.

Regarding the bolded. It was clear to me from Boom's post that the roller coaster was internal, not something that he represented in his posts. My thinking is that he made that one initial post, came back later with a bunch of posts to read, read them, experienced the roller coaster of reads, and then posted about it. He wasn't saying that he showed that in his initial post. He was just stating that was his experience while getting caught up.

I will say that the underlined is a good point. I still have no cussing clue as to why Sabrar thought PWs post was scummy. So I don't get how Boom thought it was scummy either.


Moody Re-read

This is the first time he mentions Moody. He states he’ll re-read Moody but he never actually even gave a first impression of him. It’s more likely he felt he needed to address the fact he didn’t talk about him at all in his initial reads.

IDK man I don't see what's scummy here. He hadn't given his read on a number of players at this point.

Unsatisfactory

This whole response to Maven is unsatisfactory to me. Especially the underlined. The underlined is a weak justification for him scum reading FF for jumping on Whale who he also scumread, which like Maven said, doesn’t make sense. He cannot explain it. Therefore, his true explanation is that he doesn’t vote or question Sab is because he does not want to interact with Sab nor sort him.

This post is absolutely satisfactory. Maven even agreed it was satisfactory and dropped his Boom push after this. Again, I don't see what was scummy about PW's post, but the overall logic behind this is solid.

EGW scumread on BOOM

I feel the the last sentence (underlined) is another attempt to justify his forced read on MPOLO. Now that Moody has flipped scum, him supporting Moody with a forced MPOLO read is supported. He never stated that it was due to meta originally. Even so, it was too early to decide he was acting like an INDY because 1) MPOLO said he was busy and 2) It was the start of the game.

I disagree. I got a read from mpolo's claim as well. This isn't scummy, it's just early read forming.


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bessie
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby bessie » Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:33 am UTC

Evil George Washington wrote:Mostly our interactions on page 27. I also was asking if you looked into him after you mentioned you were going to twice (iirc). It seems you might have, since you said my case reinforced your pings. How does all that affect your read on him currently?
Sorry George, I’m tired and I just keep reading page 27 over and over and I’m not getting anywhere. But I will do my best to try to read the thread during the day so that I can respond to everything quickly and I can have a conversation with you tomorrow night.

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LaserGuy
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby LaserGuy » Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:36 am UTC

#HBC | Zyth wrote:@LaserGuy Case. My responses in blue.


Thanks for the detailed reply. I will need a bit of time to process this and will probably have some questions for you later.

HBC|Zyth wrote:Someone told me earlier in the game that jim was a strong scum player.


I will be very interested to see if you can find this quote.

bessie wrote:Is this in reference to my rant about early claiming? I think all of them would have been tossed around as lynch candidates if they didn’t claim. The first three for lurking and/or active lurking, and lack of scumhunting. At the time I made that post all three had almost no content, aside from talking about themselves. The fourth not as much as the others for reasons, but possibly for scummy content and lack of scumhunting.


Yes, that was what I was referring to. I guess from a meta point of view I don't disagree with your assessment of claims, I'm just not sure in this particular instance that the claims necessarily helped their makers as much as you seemed to believe that they did.

bessie wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:@bessie: You mention in your read that jimbob generally doesn’t lurk as scum. How many games have you played with him as scum?


Note that I also mention he generally doesn’t lurk at all.


Yes, but you specifically mentioned that he doesn't lurk as scum, as though this was of particular note or in some way influencing your read. If your point is that he doesn't generally lurk, why not just say that?

bessie wrote:There’s three pages of content between those two posts. jimbob’s posts did nothing to improve my read on him. And I felt that I didn’t have a concrete scum read on Gamma Emerald, more of a gut read, and it makes me uncomfortable to vote on a gut feeling. Upon reflection jimbob got promoted to my lynch pick.

Read this post, then read Evil George Washington’s post immediately following. I was trying to alter my play to a more impression based approach until we made it through D1, and as I suspected, it is not a good playstyle for me. I’m a detail oriented nitpicker, and can’t do the type of behavior reads that others do (see SDK).


You decided to do this for exactly this one post? The one where you are placing your vote? Looking through your content, I don't see anything else that really looks at all like this.

bessie wrote:]I think either you or I are reading this wrong, I read it as the strongest of the three lynch candidates, not that all three were scum on the same team. And how can that be my read, as it is between jimbob and two people I have never played with before?


That's part of the reason why I'm considering it a scumread Zyth. How would Zyth know that jimbob is the strongest scum player out of Ryu, Gamma, and jim? I suppose Ryu and Gamma could just be terrible at scum and therefore any random player is likely better than them, but I'm a bit skeptical about this. Zyth claims that somebody mentioned this ingame, but I don't remember that. Most likely solution is he's scum and one of his buddies is an xkcder.

bessie wrote:Yes, please find this quote, because I honestly don’t remember it, and would like to see it in context (did a quick skim of old chat logs, don’t want to risk a Gojoe search). Until then I’m going to say that I think you are remembering this incorrectly, because I tunneled him hard for being scummy scum in Dark Tower. But I think highly of jimbob’s play in general.


I think it's probably from the bin Chicken mentor chat. Maybe there's something else in GoJoe but I don't want to look there either. For instance:
bessie wrote:In the most likely theoretical situation, this means the scum team is in [Sabrar, jimbobmacdoodle, somitomi, dimochka], as already noted by you. Three of these guys are master mafia players, and the fourth is being mentored by an expert, so this is going to be tough. But on the positive side, at least one of our masters is town!

bessie wrote:Yeah, jimbob’s breadcrumb is pretty convincing. Even without the breadcrumb, it would have been a pretty daring bluff in a small semi-open setup. But I don’t doubt he could pull it off! I’ve been fooled by false claims before, and there’s a lot of very clever players on this site. And in this game. And modding this game.


bessie wrote:Why would you say this? It wouldn’t be customary for someone to reveal a cop result on a townie, unless the townie was in danger of being lynched.


Cops don't generally out their targets because it also outs the cop. This circumstance is different because PW has already given away enough information that scum can probably make a reasonable guess as to the nature of his role. In that case, my initial reaction is that it's more worthwhile for PW to claim his results so that they aren't lost. The analogous situation being closer "Follow the Cop", where the cop has already claimed, rather than a cop who hasn't claimed outing themselves unnecessarily to save a townie.

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Evil George Washington
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Evil George Washington » Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:37 am UTC

Bessie: Sounds good, thank you for making the effort to do so. I'm also going to sleep, good night thread.

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Sabrar
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Sabrar » Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:44 am UTC

@Zen: I apologize if I caused you any distress. It was not my intention.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby LaserGuy » Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:52 am UTC

mpolo wrote:I fear that I am responsible for the Judgment falling onto Amrock, however. At the point when I sent in my action, Zyth was one of my town reads. Hoping he'd get killed, I swapped him with LaserGuy/Amrock.

Judgment Vote: Amrock


Wait, how does this timeline work? When did you submit your action? Why did you think Zyth would be the target of a killing action at that point in time? Is Zyth still a townread?

Gamma Emerald wrote:Holy shit mpolo just shot up in my townreads, this was my exact working theory for why Amrock was gladiated.


Why would you come to this conclusion? At the end of D1, lots of people were feeling that Zyth was looking scummy. He wasn't a prime target for scum to kill.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby plytho » Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:55 am UTC

LaserGuy wrote:Wait, how does this timeline work? When did you submit your action? Why did you think Zyth would be the target of a killing action at that point in time? Is Zyth still a townread?
mpolo was in the hospital more than a day before the deadline.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby LaserGuy » Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:01 am UTC

plytho wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:Wait, how does this timeline work? When did you submit your action? Why did you think Zyth would be the target of a killing action at that point in time? Is Zyth still a townread?


mpolo was in the hospital more than a day before the deadline.


Before the deadline for D1, yes. That's not what I'm asking about.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby plytho » Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:04 am UTC

Oh, right, I think he said he submitted his action before he went to the hospital. But there was plenty of time at night to check the thread and reconsider.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Sabrar » Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:06 am UTC

#HBC | Zyth wrote:You're really tunneling/reaching at this point.
And you're still ignoring my points regarding you from D1, mainly here and here.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby plytho » Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:57 am UTC

Zen’s defense:

#HBC | Zyth wrote:X. I don't bus.
So you’d no-lynch before you bus? Because your move to moody came at a time when moody was the only lynchable target.
#HBC | Zyth wrote:1. I am the one that initally brought attention to moody.
Not true, Maven had moody as his third lynch candidate before you made that post.
#HBC | Zyth wrote:I am also the first one to have made a point of suspicion against him.
This does seem true and is contradictory to your claimed meta (hard town read on buddies). But I’m too paranoid to believe a player who likes to change style
#HBC | Zyth wrote:2. jimbob / Dark Horse would have been a really ridiculous counter wagons to a moody wagon. Ryu and Gamma were both really easy pushes.
Maybe the Ryu and Gamma wagons were too obvious for you.

#HBC | Zyth wrote:My jimbob case was super weak and Frozen was the only other person looking at jim as a possible candidate at that time. Why the hell would scum!Zen choose jim, JIM as the wagon to save his scummate moody? Seriously, plytho / sabrar / laser you really need to answer this if your argument is going to hold any weight.
Yes, your case was very weak. I don’t understand why a townie would try to lynch a weak scum lean. I think bessie was also looking at jimbob as a possible lynch. I’m not sure moody was the one target at the time you moved on jimbob. If i recall correctly the heat was on Red Ryu, Gamma and moody. All with decent reasoning. Then you come in with weak case on jimbob and I just can’t see why a townie would do that. I can see why scum might try something like this.

1. The votes are diluted. Instead of three wagons converging to two competing wagons you add a fourth making it harder for people to make up their minds and consolidate.
2. If just one of those three is your scum mate, a town flip on jimbob won’t reveal who it is. The heat will be on you for your pushing of the mislynch, not on your buddy.
3. Two of the three could be your scum mates making point 2 an even better play from the scum pov.

#HBC | Zyth wrote:3. I was always going to switch over to moody if jim didn't get the votes. And I was no way going to have the day end with a no lynch.

Ending the day with no lynch would be a super obvious scum tell so the fact that you didn’t push for no lynch is null.

#HBC | Zyth wrote:I think I clearly had town's interest at heart. Most of my "im so gud" crap is just silly bluster. I'm not actually that great at town. I do however think I have a genuine talent for wagonomics. I have a good instinct for when and which votes need to be moved for a wagon to form and a lynch to go through. If I didn't want moody to be lynched, he wouldn't have been lynched. If I didn't move my vote then and there, the day would have ended in a no lynch or a Gamma lynch.
I’m not buying no-lynch as a possibility. And the Gamma wagon seemed pretty unlikely to me at that point in time.

#HBC | Zyth wrote:4. Right before I switched to moody, plytho and Frozen were trying to get a last minute swing toward gamma. This is actually why I voted moody at that exact moment, cause Frozen made a post right before trying to make a play towards Gamma.
I wasn't trying to get a last minute swing. I was telling Frozen that such a swing would be difficult and not feasible just by switching votes to Gamma.
#HBC | Zyth wrote:
Spoiler:
plytho wrote:
FrozenFlame wrote:So yeah I'll try to be as available as possible as deadline approaches. I'm stick with the Jim wagon but if people are that bent out of shape about it I think Gamma is a great alternative. This moody wagon gives me really bad vibes
If you're serious about the Gamma move you need to get that organized. This only works if you round up people willing to switch at a predetermined time, well before deadline. Everyone switches at the same time, if it's not enough, switch right back to something viable. Otherwise you might have people that switched but can't switch back because they're asleep.

FrozenFlame wrote:
plytho wrote:
FrozenFlame wrote:If you're serious about the Gamma move you need to get that organized. This only works if you round up people willing to switch at a predetermined time, well before deadline. Everyone switches at the same time, if it's not enough, switch right back to something viable. Otherwise you might have people that switched but can't switch back because they're asleep.

I'm seriously about being willing to move to Gamma if people prefer that lynch to Jimbob but obviously I'm not going to mobilize a shift off jimbob, who I would prefer to lynch, just to move to Gamma. I'm just saying that if Gamma becomes a wagon I'll be around to and will move to it if we end up deciding jimbob is definitively not a play.


Right after these is when I make my let's mobilize on moody post, because I was afraid of them swinging the lynch toward gamma. Looking back on it, I think this is the strongest evidence for town!Zen (or at least nonBudsWithmoodyZen). The only scenario that this is not the case is if Gamma is on the same team as Zen-moody.
That scenario is what I’m suspicious of right now. If Gamma is town you get a some townie points for not trying to switch here. But not a lot since the wagon didn’t feel too viable without a big effort (what I’m pointing out to FF).

Zen’s responses to me:

My case on Zen, expanded:
-the late DH push (particularly this near lie)
Spoiler:
This is what triggered me to look into Zen’s motivations. Zen has been active all game and DH had been discussed multiple times. Pushing this point so late in the game doesn’t make sense. His evidence is also annoyingly misleading. Zen has experience with OS games, at least that’s what he’s saying here. I checked back on smashboards and the last 4 Overswarm games have that special rule 3 (and basically the same rules list). Clearly it’s part of the standard OS rules list.

Bro, I haven't played an OS game in 3-4 years. I didn't even play in the game you linked because OS was being a jerk and wouldn't let me use my hydra. I don't have a rule list memorized from 4 years ago in a game I didn't even play in. And even though this is an OS set up, I thought the OP was marshy's. That's why that line stuck out to me so much, because it didn't seem like something marshy would say unless there was something special about it. When he said that he had nothing further to say about DH after our inquiry, I went into full on conspiracy mode and thought there was something fishy going on with the DH spot. That's my bad.

--Oh wow I just checked the game on that date and it's actually been 5 years holy zargons time flies.

Well, this might be a mistake you made and it isn’t all that clear from the OP that this is standard OS. Although the very next rule after special note 3 does refer to OS games as ‘my’ games. I admit I didn’t check the dates on the OS games. I went to look for them because of special note 4 and noticed the similarity myself so I expected DGamers to notice this too. So, honest mistake or deliberate misguiding? I guess I’m null on this point.


-the late reads list that had been promised for days
Spoiler:
There were other people that took a lot of time to provide a reads list, but as I said, Zen has been active all game. He was around but didn’t post a list until he got a view on most people’s opinions.

Not sure what to say to this. It's a silly point.

Well, you could say: “I had good reasons to keep my reads to myself until late in the game, these are my reasons:”

-the 4th wagon (it's not the jimbob part I'm bothered by)
Spoiler:
Starting an alternative Wagon to the 3 likely ones, with about 24 hours left in the game has town scrambling. Zen was active all game. If he wanted to push jimbob he could have done so much earlier.

Addressed above.

Addressed where? Is this another ‘silly point’? Are we supposed to just trust your wagonomics about the correct time to propose another wagon (based on a weak read)?


-the SirG lynch plan
Spoiler:
Zen was one of the people supporting this. I explained earlier why this may be indicative of scum.

I'm the one that brought up the idea on redirecting the kill to SirG, silly. And I made certain that mpolo was aware of SirG's claim and this plan.

I'm starting to question whether or not you're actually being genuine here.

You bringing up the redirecting is a point in your favour. That was one of the reasons I almost read you as town.

-the 100% scum read claim
Spoiler:
The claim on itself is not necessarily a scum tell but extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and we still haven’t seen the evidence. So: stellar evidence: good Zen. anything less: scum Zen, more dodging: scum Zen
Time for my after-run shower. I'll be back with some shower thougths on the implications of this judgement day on the GLaDOS possibilities.


jackie_chan_wut_face.jpg

I didn't realize how weak the points you were making on me were. I'm sorry, but I really don't know what you're saying here. My 100% thing was just me being sillyBoisterousZen. Were you fishing for a pr result or sumfin? Cause it seems like you were fishing for a pr result or sumfin.

I don’t know what you mean by pr result?
You really don’t know what I’m saying? I’ve been asking who that read is and why, expecting a strong case. You have refused to answer all D1 long only to come out now saying you were just being silly and it was jimbob all along (who you had no strong read on)?
This a very weak answer. Is this your clarification after the fact? What are you getting out of this? I think you had a plan with that claim and it failed for some reason.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby plytho » Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:57 am UTC

Other points:

Gamma Emerald wrote:
plytho wrote:You know who doesn't need to check the flip?

Passive aggressive accusation noted.
Sorry about the tone. My point, that it’s suspicious that you forgot moody was scum or thought it wasn’t all that relevant regarding the shift off the jimbob wagon, still stands though.

bessie wrote:
plytho wrote:Why did nobody take up Madge's offer to prove the tree stump claim?
When? The tree stump revelation came too late in the day to think through.
It came 6 hours before deadline, seems plenty to me.

I seem to remember BoomFrog saying moody and jimbob were more likely scumbuddies than scum-town. What was up with that?
BoomFrog wrote:Most likely universe, Moody and Jim are buddies but second most likely Moody is scum and Jim is town so I'd rather lynch Moody first.
Vote count at that point was 7 for moody and 5 for jimbob. So BoomFrog seems to think that both wagons are town driven with no interference from scum. That seems very unlikely for me. I can maybe buy jimbob and moody being on opposing scum teams but buddies really doesn’t make sense.
@BoomFrog: please explain what you were thinking.

Am I too paranoid when I’m thinking there’s a large scum team with more than one very good scum player trying to influence the lynch? This is one of the reasons I’m more suspicious of Zen after the moody flip.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby plytho » Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:37 am UTC

Why was maven the NK target?
-scum knew he had a vig
-he was pushing their buddy Gamma
-they want us to think he was pushing their buddy Gamma
#HBC | Zyth wrote:I wonder where Maven's vig shot went.
From what he was posting I suspect his target was Gamma.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby plytho » Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:19 am UTC

FrozenFlame wrote:Amrock we know is non-town so that's a no brainer. Laser guy said that he could only pick one other target to include in judgement, so if he's telling the truth that means that someone targeted Zyth & SirG as swap targets last night. The only person we know of in this game with a target swapping ability is Mpolo. Now why exactly would he target Zyth & SirG's slot last night? The townie explanation is "well I thought Zyth would have guns pointing at him and wanted those killshots to hit SirG instead." That's a questionable rationale though considering Zyth was coming under some heat late in the day phase yesterday which makes me a bit curious as to how someone would think Zyth would be a primary NK target.
Yeah, mpolo will need to explain why he didn't change his night action target.

FrozenFlame wrote:The fact that he wanted Zyth in his judgement pool (ostensibly because he thought Zyth was a prime scum suspect) betrays this rationale as non-concomitant with his own understanding of how Zyth was being read. :thinkingemoji:
Are you conflating mpolo and LaserGuy here?

FrozenFlame wrote:I get the feeling that mpolo was up to something more nefarious and instead was trying to redirect shots targeted at SirG to Zyth, though I'll admit motive there is a bit murkier.
It's murky indeed. Who would be shooting at SirG?
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby #HBC | Red Ryu » Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:27 pm UTC

I'll get to this once I got free time st work.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Sabrar » Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:23 pm UTC

Quick notes:
- h_a hasn't been online for a week, hopefully no big irl troubles
- I don't like LaserGuy's case on bessie, feels reminescent of Shakespeare.
- FrozenFlame seems to confuse things when making his case against mpolo ('The fact that he wanted Zyth in his judgement pool' when mpolo had (presumably) no knowledge of Judgement).
- LaserGuy misunderstands things a lot
- why is Zen so sure that Maven fired?
- this post from bessie does not appear to have too much content in it despite its size
- plytho is probably Town

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby mpolo » Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:27 pm UTC

So, to get something quick, I took a lot less notes than I usually do...

My timeline was that I put in my targets at about the time that I put down my vote. I got back from the hospital and only read the result of the day (which means I have more to go back and read. Ugh.) So, it didn't occur to me to change what I had sent, even with the artificially extended night.

@LaserGuy: My comment about bessie is based on her meta / luck with the RNG -- I don't think I've seen her as scum more than once in a couple of years. As such, I try to keep some wariness of her, because the tendency is to read her as town all the time.
"Hoping he'd get killed" should be read "hoping that he would be the one to draw the kill" -- my intention was to swap the two, killing Amrock and saving Zyth (whose late-day content went downhill).

My power works on targets and switches them, i.e. vanilla Busdriver.

Reads lists (sometimes with rambling comments). The groups are not ordered within themselves:

Townie group:
EvilGeorgeWashington - suggests Megaman out himself: is that the best move? Are we sure Megaman is town -- based on flavor, I suppose so…
Sabrar
LaserGuy - Volunteers to be the last vote on Amrock for having a negative utility ability
bessie - though perhaps a little detached wrt EGW, more willing to change? Sabrar says no.

Neutral group:
Madge - weird role that is possibly Indy. Unlikely to get powered up at this point. Weird Tree Stump thing.
Peaceful Whale - so much newbie content, I'm finding it hard to read. May get himself modkilled at the rate he's missing rules.
Ryu - with somewhat scummy lean for fixating on indies, though we do have to get rid of them sooner or later in many cases
Amrock - almost certainly GladOS, almost certainly "judged" today. Following EGW
FrozenFlame - tunneling on me

Scummy group:
#HBC|Zyth - two big arguments have been posted, he has given a reasonable defense, though (I thought that it was possibly too "defensive" for a townie). Now I'm arguing in circles.
BoomFrog - I have a tendency to read him a little scummy. I think it's because of the Gargoyles game long long ago.
jimbobmacdoodle
plytho (possibly just tunneling on Zyth, though); though he also gave a vacuous answer to a reasonable question

Not enough info group:
Spak
Znirk

I have class again in 15 minutes, so I better post now.

Todo: Read day end material from yesterday

Ninjaed by Sabrar.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby plytho » Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:34 pm UTC

mpolo wrote:plytho (possibly just tunneling on Zyth, though); though he also gave a vacuous answer to a reasonable question
Can you point me to that question/answer?
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby mpolo » Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:36 pm UTC

It was who was on the scum team with Zyth. You said moody, who had already flipped. I think I realized later that you were assuming two scum teams, one of which has two members, though.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby plytho » Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:41 pm UTC

I’m worried about this statement from Gamma:
Gamma Emerald wrote:Yeah, with a vigilante, only one kill seems to be disproving a multiple team theory.
considering he was the likely vig target of maven. I don't think the presence of a vig influences the likeliness of two scum kills.

Gamma Emerald wrote:Also going to state Sabrar and PW have entered my townreads. I have 7 so far. My personal guess for amount of scum is 5-6, leaning towards 5, so these townreads could eventually help develop a rudimentary PoE for me to use.
Who are the other 5 and what does PoE mean? (I'm aware of Path of Exile and Power over Ethernet but they don't fit the context.)

#HBC | Zyth wrote:Dammit Laserguy, that was such a good post you made about me, and I can definitely see where you're coming from. I drew some of the exact same conclusions you made on me, but on someone else! I also have the exact same scum team reads as you, except replace me with the aforementioned "someone else".
Ha, “someone else”, classic Zen. This doesn’t bother me at all [nervous twitching].

The claims from Sabrar and Zen re:Zen's ability seem inconsistent.

LaserGuy wrote:
HBC|Zyth wrote:Someone told me earlier in the game that jim was a strong scum player.


I will be very interested to see if you can find this quote.

I think I found it here (below the second-to-last quote).
Point for Zen, I guess.

Btw, really liking LaserGuy today, solid entrance.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Sabrar » Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:12 pm UTC

plytho wrote:The claims from Sabrar and Zen re:Zen's ability seem inconsistent.
No sh*t, Sherlock.
Luckily I would presume Zen used her ability tonight as well so that player can confirm the phrasing of the pm received if absolutely necessary.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Peaceful Whale » Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:22 pm UTC

How about asking them what's the first, last, and 4th letter? :P
My meta for future reference
Spoiler:
cemper93 wrote:Your meta appears to be "just writes whatever is on his mind and doesn't remember what happened more than five hours ago"

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Peaceful Whale » Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:22 pm UTC

Answering questions:
D1: school!

Towniest players
Me,
Bessie
George Washington? All the players who post a lot and have good read lists I mentally group them into the "Sabar" bucket.

I'm not posting a reads list, becuase at this point I'm just a liability. I am working on it but with school it may take a until tomorrow morning or late tonight.
However I'm not so sure everyone is right about boomfrog, I don't like him?/her?.
Zyrth... I'm not so sure... losts of people are leaning scum on him, but I feel like there are scummyer people. But he seems to be backing into a corner. Way to go plytho!

I wonder if mod votes count towards getting an ability activated, if so, Madge should do that. :lol:
Anyone else think that last nights wagons are kinda weird? If scum is one team of six, I'd feel like they'd be maybe a little bit more coordinated. Maybe someone already mentioned this, but I think 2 groups of three makes more sense, or 6 groups of 1 :P

I think jimbob has given up.
My meta for future reference
Spoiler:
cemper93 wrote:Your meta appears to be "just writes whatever is on his mind and doesn't remember what happened more than five hours ago"

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby plytho » Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:26 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
plytho wrote:The claims from Sabrar and Zen re:Zen's ability seem inconsistent.
No sh*t, Sherlock.
Luckily I would presume Zen used her ability tonight as well so that player can confirm the phrasing of the pm received if absolutely necessary.
Well, Watson, I'm not talking about private information that tells you Zen is withholding stuff that you know about. I'm saying the stuff that you both made public looks inconsistent.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Sabrar » Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:31 pm UTC

Yes, that's exactly what I was referring to originally.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby mpolo » Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:42 pm UTC

I think that the way my power works is consistent with what I have understood from the thread. N0, Zen sent Sabrar a request for two names. N1 Sabrar tried to send Zen a list of two names, but since I had "driven" Amrock to that "house", Amrock received a list of two names that he didn't know what to do with.

@Zen: Did you also send a list of two names to someone N1?

It is a weird power, so I may be missing something.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby plytho » Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:56 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:Yes, that's exactly what I was referring to originally.
Oh, I didn't get that I thought I cleared up your original confusion and your comment about Zen withholding [twitch] something referred to private knowledge.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby bessie » Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:10 pm UTC

Peaceful Whale wrote:How about asking them what's the first, last, and 4th letter? :P
This is generally not allowed, it is considered similar to asking someone to quote their role pm. A player was modkilled in Vanillafia for this type of pm discussion. I'm on my way to work, if you don't understand I will try to explain it more clearly tonight or maybe someone else can help out.

mpolo wrote:bessie - though perhaps a little detached wrt EGW, more willing to change? Sabrar says no.
I don't understand this comment. I am generally detached from everyone because I'm not usually on line when others are. Sabrar says no about what? Sabrar, did you say I am unwilling to change somewhere (or is it I'm unable to change :) ), and about what?

Sabrar wrote:- this post from bessie does not appear to have too much content in it despite its size
How so, and what's your point?

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Sabrar » Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:18 pm UTC

bessie wrote:Sabrar, did you say I am unwilling to change somewhere (or is it I'm unable to change :) ), and about what?
I said that I saw no big change of heart in your stance wrt PW.

bessie wrote:How so, and what's your point?
Lot of your comments did not concern in-game content. No point, just 'Noted' as you would say.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:44 pm UTC

Peaceful Whale wrote:I think jimbob has given up.
Hardly, I just haven't had the chance to post anything meaningful in the 24 hours or so since day start. My time has been soaked up catching up on the deluge of content.

I'm on my way home now, and have a broadly free evening, so will respond to questions later, then move onto my promised reads.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby LaserGuy » Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:49 pm UTC

There's some content I really want to get to, but I promised Gamma some condensed reads, so I'll try to tackle that first. See this post for more details. Questions from the original post included in spoilers.

Condensed reads of everyone else in alphabetical order:

Bessie: This post really stands out as problematic, as I don't feel her case on jimbob was well-motivated. A few interactions with Zyth seem a bit fishy, especially surrounding the late wagon. Originally pretty strong scum lean, revised closer to neutral based on some recent content.

@bessie
Spoiler:
@bessie: Of the early claimers, mpolo, SirG, Madge, and PW, who do you honestly see as having been an alternate lynch candidate?
@bessie: You mention in your read that jimbob generally doesn’t lurk as scum. How many games have you played with him as scum?
@bessie: You were reading Gamma, Ryu, and jimbob as your ordered scummiest reads. Why did you decide to vote jimbob here when Gamma was a better wagon at the time and you thought he was scummier?

______________________________________________________

BoomFrog: Reads look okay, his response to the wagons felt natural and townie. Feels townie overall.

@BoomFrog
Spoiler:
@BoomFrog: In recent games we’ve played together, you’ve often been more “cagey” than I’m seeing you play here. How is your approach different this game from some of the previous ones?
@BoomFrog: What’s your read on bessie?

______________________________________________________

EGW: Very systematic, asking lots of questions, demanding answers, consistently following up, revising opinions based on new information. First reads list are very concise and seem well reasoned. I find it hard to get a sense of his opinions outside of that due to his very terse posting style. Needs to post more walls. Feels townie.

@EGW
Spoiler:
@EGW: Have you played with scum!Zyth before? What is he like?

______________________________________________________

FrozenFlame: Content improves throughout the day, I like most of what I'm seeing. Don't like that he hasn't updated his read of jimbob (his strongest scum pick) since early in the same. Town lean.

@Frozen
Spoiler:
@FrozenFlame: Do you have an updated read on jimbob?

______________________________________________________

Gamma Emerald: Not much to like here. Active lurky (mostly just lurky) throughout most of D1. Sheeps Zyth on jimbob vote, doesn’t really contribute anything to the discussion there. I don’t really like any of his content at all. Looks scummy.

@Gamma
Spoiler:
@Gamma Emerald: Can we expect better content from you today? I'd rather not have to lynch you, but your current play will make a big liability in the endgame.
@Gamma Emerald: Why did you settle on jimbob instead of moody to vote?

______________________________________________________

Heury: Content in the early game was pretty poor. Disappeared for the latter half of D1. Looks scummy based on his current content, really needs to rejoin the game.

@heury
Spoiler:
@heury: What happened to you in the latter half of D1?

______________________________________________________

Jimbob: HUGE read flag in his first post. Wishy-washy reads, mostly about nulls. Pretty sure he's scum.

@jimbob
Spoiler:
@jimbob: Can you explain how you arrived at the conclusion there are two scumteams? Can you explain the discrepancies between these quotes?
@jimbob: Why were you reading plytho as scummy here when all your commentary of him is positive? What do you think about plytho defending you from the lynch at the end of D1?
@jimbob: What do you think is the correct way for town to deal with lurkers?
@jimbob: What are your reads of Red Ryu, plytho and Spak?

______________________________________________________

Madge: I think her argument for why she claimed seems plausible to me. The rest feels like Madge to me. Tentatively accepting other players vouching for her meta.

@Madge
Spoiler:
@Madge: Why don’t you consider these kinds of indies to be dangerous?

______________________________________________________

Maven: Dead. Confirmed Town.
______________________________________________________

Moody: Lynched. Confirmed scum.
______________________________________________________

Mpolo: Really not enough there for me to get a good feel of him. The initial claim seems a bit unnecessary, but I think it’s probably truthful and slightly more likely to come from Town than scum. Neutral for now.

@mpolo:
Spoiler:
@Mpolo
bessie: very typical play. I find myself agreeing with her very often. Nervous because she is so often town.

Can you explain what you mean here? Are you nervous that you're agreeing with someone you think is town?
@Mpolo: Zyth asked here if you were the protagonist of Portal. Is this true? It would be very helpful if you could confirm this.

______________________________________________________

Peaceful Whale: Super scummy start to the game. Consistent overreactions to anyone reading him as scummy. Responses don't suggest a scumteam helping him out. Newbie Town.

@Peaceful Whale:
Spoiler:
@Peaceful Whale: You got very quiet in the last half of D1. What happened?
@Peaceful Whale: Please go through my content and ask me three good questions about anything that you don''t understand or need clarification on.
@Peaceful Whale: Can you post some updated reads? Who are the three scummiest players? Who are the three towniest?

______________________________________________________

plytho: Mixed bag. I didn't care for his defense of jimbob late in the day, and his reads feel a bit lazy (lurkers = scum, that's about it). Leaning scum, but only if there's two scumteams (ie. definitely not scum with moody).

@plytho
Spoiler:
@plytho: Do you feel it is better to vote no lynch than mislynch a scummy town?
@plytho: Why were you defending jimbob so much?
@plytho: If Zyth is scum, who are his scumbuddies?
@plytho: Do you think jimbob is Town?

______________________________________________________

Ryu: Main thing that stands out his his strong stance against indies, but unwillingness to actually go through with, say, sacrificing himself for SirG. Only seems to really get into the game when people start pushing votes on him. Not much that I find particularly townie. Scum lean.

@Ryu:
Spoiler:
@Ryu: What are your reads of Spak, plytho and jimbob?

______________________________________________________

Sabrar: Suspicions of Zyth later feel a lot like what I expect from Town!Sabrar, asked some great questions. Big townie points for rallying lynch on moody. Overall I have him solidly town at this stage.

@Sabrar
Spoiler:
@Sabrar: Any particular reason you're acting this way?
@Sabrar: Why don't you think the SirG plan will work if there is otherwise a clear lynch candidate?
@Sabrar: If Zyth and moody are scumbuddies, who do you think is with them?

______________________________________________________

SirGabriel/Amrock: Not really much to say here. Active lurked for most of the game, claimed D1 and gambit pretty much failed. Will probably be judgment killed at this point.

@Amrock
Spoiler:
@Amrock: Are you planning on scumhunting and working with town going forward?
@Amrock: Is your double voter victory condition a solo win?

______________________________________________________

Spak: Barely makes an appearance in my notes. Don’t have a solid read based on content here.

@Spak
Spoiler:
@Spak: What are your reads of jimbob, plytho, and Red Ryu?

______________________________________________________


Znirk:
Asks good questions. Forget mafia had daychat which I'm willing to ascribe cautiously as a towntell (@plytho: Can you figure out why?). Shares my concerns about plytho regarding PW. End of day contributions stymied by real life. Not enough data to say anything conclusive but my gut reaction is towntell is real. I’ve got him down as Town lean.

@Znirk
Spoiler:
@Znirk: Any chance we'll get to see more of you today?
@Znirk: What's your read on Zyth?


Zyth: The extremely short version: Zyth has too much information about the setup to be town. Based on interactions, it is extremely likely that he is a scumbuddy to moody, and it appears that moody’s ability gave Zyth’s team access to a huge amount of setup information that they were hoping to leverage by killing off the other scumteam for townie credit. This effort ultimately failed, and in the process, provided us with enough information both implicate his entire team, and also, indirectly, most of the members of the other team as well. See here.
______________________________________________________

@Zyth:
Spoiler:
@Zyth: Was/is your 99.83% read on jimbob? Why did you never reply to this when asked by plytho, George, Sabrar, etc.?
@Zyth: Here, you say that you don’t like using meta as a basis for reads. Yet in your reads list here you rely a fair bit on this type of meta as alignment indicative, eg.
EGW: EGW is always very easy to read when he's not mafia. I don't think I really need to go into this read.

Why do you feel a meta read is appropriate here?
Hm, are you not the protagonist from portal? If not, there may be another redirector whose purpose in the game is to get destroy GladOS. I was thinking by redirecting a night kill towards her.

@Zyth: Where did this come from? Why did you immediately think of him being the protagonist from portal based only on this:
mpolo wrote:My power involves re-arranging of targets and powers.

jim is the strongest scum player of the 3. We take him out and the rest falls apart. I just have a feeling about this.

@Zyth: Where did you get this from? How do you know that there’s three scum? How do you know jimbob is the strongest of them? Why didn’t you answer Sabrar’s question about this here?
Vote jim and at least help me put scum in a position where they are forced to choose.

@Zyth: How you know jimbob and Ryu are co-aligned scum? Why didn’t you answer EGW’s question about it here?
@Zyth: Nice bus. Why do you think Spak would have been better?


Town
=====
LaserGuy
Peaceful Whale
EGW
Sabrar
BoomFrog
mpolo
FrozenFlame
Znirk
Madge
Spak
plytho
bessie
Gamma
heury
Red Ryu
jimbob
Zyth
====
Scum

Neutral line is roughly at Spak.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby LaserGuy » Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:12 pm UTC

Madge wrote:I don't even know. Wine with moody and jimbob, zyth, glados... so much to keep track of. Add to that that there's people like EGW that I've never played with before and don't know how to read (again, who am i kidding, I don't know how to read anyone).


You don't find anyone scummy?

EGW wrote:I think Judgement voting Amrock is a good thing to do, it deals with our problem of Sirg slot giving people double votes which would in a way, block their votes if they don't want him to win. I do think Madge should test her treestump claim though, that is very important.


How do you intend to do this? Verifying this claim would essentially kill Madge.

plytho wrote:Why did nobody take up Madge's offer to prove the tree stump claim?


Same question to you: Why would you want to test a power that effectively kills Madge?

Amrock wrote:Hey ran!! Ugh if I knew this was true I would have given you the double vote instead of frozen. Just picked someone I knew lmao


SirG already told us more information about how this power works. Who is your target "victim"?

Sabrar wrote:- LaserGuy misunderstands things a lot


I've only been in thread for 24 hours. Haven't exactly had a lot of time to clarify things.

mpolo wrote:My timeline was that I put in my targets at about the time that I put down my vote. I got back from the hospital and only read the result of the day (which means I have more to go back and read. Ugh.) So, it didn't occur to me to change what I had sent, even with the artificially extended night.


Thanks, this makes sense. Why no reads on Sabrar/jimbob?

plytho wrote:I think I found it here (below the second-to-last quote).
Point for Zen, I guess.


Please stop answering questions that aren't directed at you. Especially questions directed to players that are scummier than you.

Peaceful Whale wrote:I wonder if mod votes count towards getting an ability activated, if so, Madge should do that.


I actually think this idea is kind of hilarious, but I suspect that the mod would probably inflict some worse punishment if a player were deliberately metagaming them in this manner. Can you please give at least one real scumread? "I don't know" isn't a scumread.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby plytho » Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:21 pm UTC

@bessie: thanks for finally answering this old question in your opening post today. Why didn't you answer right away? It would have saved us a lot of trouble. Do you still think I was trying to rolefish?

LaserGuy wrote:Same question to you: Why would you want to test a power that effectively kills Madge?
It doesn't.
Madge wrote: if I kill anyone, including with a hammer vote, I become a Tree Stump (can post but not vote or use abilities). So I can't hammer - well, I can hammer, but it kind of neuters me.


LaserGuy wrote:Please stop answering questions that aren't directed at you. Especially questions directed to players that are scummier than you.
I'll try. But I felt like this was a verifiable fact, so not really the same thing as explaining behaviour of other players.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby LaserGuy » Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:46 pm UTC

plytho wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:Same question to you: Why would you want to test a power that effectively kills Madge?
It doesn't.
Madge wrote: if I kill anyone, including with a hammer vote, I become a Tree Stump (can post but not vote or use abilities). So I can't hammer - well, I can hammer, but it kind of neuters me.


A tree stump cannot vote or use abilities for the rest of the game. She can continue to post, but that's it. Why do you think it is a good idea to remove a (potential) Townie's vote for the rest of the game?

plytho wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:Please stop answering questions that aren't directed at you. Especially questions directed to players that are scummier than you.


I'll try. But I felt like this was a verifiable fact, so not really the same thing as explaining behaviour of other players.


Maybe. But if someone in scumchat had been the one to tell Zyth this, now Zyth can go and point to this quote instead.

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#HBC | Red Ryu
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby #HBC | Red Ryu » Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:46 pm UTC

Going to do this as I go.

Page 24:

Agree with Ran, not a fan of Boomfrog and still dislike the slot. Don't agree with the first post. RollerCoaster point is solid and one of the things I did notice before. Not sure about Moody point, might have some insight given that Moody did flip scum. I also agree with the unsatisfactory point. big points on Frog is the lack of consistent direction, wants one direct, but then votes an entirely different direction. Not a fan of this, will see if my vote goes here over other people.

plytho's post about the FF and lynching Glados situation is pretty null and overall I find refusal of it to be null and depends on the situation. I would find people accepting it to be telling in many ways if someone says, "I'll do it" The redirect idea might be the best way to handle this for now given what he did state.

Did Madgy do a tree stump claim? Because she can do it and be town confirmed but can't vote. Actually...OS has done mafia tree stumps before, like legitimately done this where the mafia has taken himself out of the game and pretended to be town. This is something to be wary of as a I know Marshy has a habit of saying screw claims just lynch. So him pushing something like that I would not put past him. Still stand by killing SirG, even if Plytho thinks I am scum for it.

Will get to the Zen parts I got a bone to pick with him given that Moody flip.

Laserguy is a replacement for dark horse, Cool will read his stuff. Oh me yarm we can kill Amrock, done and done will judgement him easily since no one should die over this. Oh great...he made his notes before his role pm.....can I even try to read intent in them then? The next post is automatically null then. :/

Well the fact he posted the Zen case despite this might be telling, Laser thinks Zen has too much information or has shown himself to be far too knowledgeable about the set-up with how he has been acting. I can see this, and honestly Zen's interactions with Moody bother me with that flip.

@Laserguy

Spak is leaning town and fine in my eyes, he posted early posts about Frog that I also noticed and thought were good points.
plytho is leaning town as well, good observations and definitely looks like his reads have person insight just with himself rather than anything that looks like it has an agenda.
jimbob can is in my no idea can die for all I care pile.

Why is Zen voting Spak?

@#HBC | Zyth Why are you voting Spak and can you give an answer to why you thought Moody was town even why in your gut he looked town?

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LaserGuy
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby LaserGuy » Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:01 pm UTC

#HBC | Zyth wrote:1. I am the one that initally brought attention to moody.


I don't really see your contribution here as being notable. Sabrar starting pushing moody on page 3. Maven was pushing hard several posts before you made this comment.

#HBC | Zyth wrote:I didn't "forget", it's just not convention from my experience. I wasn't aware that it was such a common thing here, but seeing that multiple players from this site have stated the likelihood of there being two teams, I see it as reasonable for h_a to think so. I actually suspected that there were probably more than one team, but not because it's a large game, rather because of my previous experience in an OS game. h_a's hard stance on there being to teams is actually why he initially caught my attention. Seemed a bit too insightful. Now that I know that it's a common thing here, I can disregard that line of suspicion. Honestly now it seems more weird to me those from this site that didn't consider two teams in their setup prediction (i.e moody).


As noted above, Maven and Sabrar were already making noises about this before. I don't remember if I put this in my read of you or not (it's in my notes in the spoiler section on this page), but you were actually kind of misdirected here, IMHO. Two scum teams are quite rare on this forum--if there's an extra kill, it's usually Scum + SK. I've noted my suspicions of certain people (esp. jimbob) for their comments about this early in the game.

#HBC | Zyth wrote:2. jimbob / Dark Horse would have been a really ridiculous counter wagons to a moody wagon. Ryu and Gamma were both really easy pushes. Especially gamma. The only way there is scum!Zen here is if Ryu and Gamma are also on the same team.


My speculation here is that you wanted to push someone on the other scumteam to get townie credit for your own.

#HBC | Zyth wrote:3. I was always going to switch over to moody if jim didn't get the votes. And I was no way going to have the day end with a no lynch. I wanted counter wagons so that scum would have to choose between one or the other. When I felt the deadlock was reached, and we thus got all we could out of the competing wagons, I was going to switch over to moody and bring everyone on the jim wagon with me, and that is what I did.


I agree with plytho that the moody wagon was basically a lock by this point, so whether or not you were scum you probably would have made the switch. It's a null tell as far as alignment is concerned, IMHO, though on these forums late switches of wagons like you did are usually read as being scummy.

#HBC | Zyth wrote:4. Right before I switched to moody, plytho and Frozen were trying to get a last minute swing toward gamma. This is actually why I voted moody at that exact moment, cause Frozen made a post right before trying to make a play towards Gamma.


I will go back and reread this again. This wasn't my interpretation of the situation at all. Why did you want moody to be town here, by the way?

HBC | Zyth wrote:This is an entirely circumstantial case lol. It's founded on the basis that I have too much information, but you have not proven this! We don't actually know jim's alignment -- which I'm assuming is your basis for this whole thing because I came to the same idea, but with Frozen. Until we know jim's alignment or Megaman can confirm that moody did indeed have indy info on jim, this case is built upon glass pillars.


I would be very interested in hearing this analysis at some point.

HBC | Zyth wrote:My Ran read isn't a meta read. I said he's easy to read when he's not mafia. That's not to say that my read is based on that fact. It would be kind of circular if it was (he's easy to read therefore I read him!). I just didn't give the details of my read because they were obvious and had been stated by other people. My reasons are that he's clearly engaged in the game, showing a lot of scum hunting intent, and asking lot's of clarifying and reasonable questions.


Okay, fair enough.

HBC | Zyth wrote:You misunderstood. I'm referring to my 3 scum reads in this post. At the time of which was jim, spak, and ruy. I was stating why I wanted jim over the other two. Someone told me earlier in the game that jim was a strong scum player.


Why didn't you answer Sabrar about this when he asked you earlier? Does jimbob's play in this game give you the impression that he's a strong scum player? I'm not sure how you get "We take him out and the rest falls apart" when jimbob's contributions have been minimal and he wasn't really pushing anyone.

HBC | Zyth wrote:You misunderstood. The Ryu line above has nothing to do with the jim line. I was saying build a jim wagon so that scum has to choose between that wagon and the moody wagon.


Why didn't you clarify this is what you meant in response to EGW when he asked you about this before?

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby plytho » Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:05 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:A tree stump cannot vote or use abilities for the rest of the game. She can continue to post, but that's it. Why do you think it is a good idea to remove a (potential) Townie's vote for the rest of the game?
Oh :shock: I thought it was only for the next day. Yeah, I'm not into the Madgehammer any more.
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#HBC | Zyth
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby #HBC | Zyth » Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:07 pm UTC

mpolo read the game.

Znirk, h_a, Spak

jim, Ruy, mpolo

These players aren't doing anything. Perhaps the active posters slow down posting so that they can get caught up.


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