Crossover Mafia | Game!

For your simulated organized crime needs.

Moderators: jestingrabbit, Moderators General, Prelates

User avatar
mpolo
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2008 3:24 pm UTC
Location: Germany

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby mpolo » Tue Sep 19, 2017 7:00 pm UTC

Really annoyed with a "not doing anything" when I put several hours into reading this thread today and produced a long post. (Just spent another hour reading the end of the day.) If it is absolutely required to get a post in every 2-3 hours you can just lynch me, because I do have a life outside the forum.

I see no utility in turning Madge into a tree stump — if we think she's scummy, we lynch or vig her (though there may not be any more vigs).

The couple of Spak posts in the late-day phase yesterday were much better. I can certainly commiserate with being behind on reading.

The people that have no comments next to them, I had no "special" notes on while reading, just a general town/scum lean.

bessie wrote:
mpolo wrote: bessie - though perhaps a little detached wrt EGW, more willing to change? Sabrar says no.

I don't understand this comment. I am generally detached from everyone because I'm not usually on line when others are. Sabrar says no about what? Sabrar, did you say I am unwilling to change somewhere (or is it I'm unable to change :) ), and about what?


The notes I took about you are not all that transparent -- sorry. It seemed that you were avoiding engaging with EGW at the point I wrote that note. You have since engaged him. There was a certain suggestion that you were tunnelling less than in other games, but Sabrar felt that this wasn't true.

That is, basically everything I jotted down ended up being near meaningless and you ended up in the townie pile.
Image <-- Evil experiment

User avatar
mpolo
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2008 3:24 pm UTC
Location: Germany

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby mpolo » Tue Sep 19, 2017 7:02 pm UTC

EBWOP: s/basically everything I jotted down ended/basically everything I jotted down about you ended/
Image <-- Evil experiment

Amrock
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:13 pm UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Amrock » Tue Sep 19, 2017 7:34 pm UTC

Definitely not scum hunting but will just sheep Ranmaru. And give vote to whoever Ranmaru wants. So, yes, I'll work with town but don't expect effort. Also keep in mind I can't be nightkill by mafia.


Uhh... If I give a vote to someone and they lynch someone 3 times, I win.

Or I can survive.

User avatar
Peaceful Whale
Posts: 167
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:38 pm UTC
Location: Northern Virginia

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Peaceful Whale » Tue Sep 19, 2017 7:35 pm UTC

Amrock wrote:
Uhh... If I give a vote to someone and they lynch someone 3 times, I win.

Or I can survive.


Do they know that they have a vote on them?
What do you mean by this?
My meta for future reference
Spoiler:
cemper93 wrote:Your meta appears to be "just writes whatever is on his mind and doesn't remember what happened more than five hours ago"

User avatar
jimbobmacdoodle
Posts: 149
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:40 pm UTC
Location: NP 811/The Present

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:03 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:@jimbob: Can you explain how you arrived at the conclusion there are two scumteams? Can you explain the discrepancies between these quotes?
Simple - game size. The only other game that I've played at this size had two scum teams in (Smalltown 2), and every large game that I remember reading also had two scum teams in (although I admit I haven't read all that many large games), hence my instinctive guess. Shakespeare was 4 people smaller (16 versus 20), making two scum teams more difficult to fit into the game, although based on the flavour, I certainly didn't rule it out (as noted in the other parts of the comment). I just found it interesting that lots of people jumped from 2 different death styles to 2 "normal" scum teams (i.e. not SKs) in Shakespeare, hence my comment then.

As for why I worded this game's setup quote differently, I believe that it is very likely that there are two anti-town groupings in the game, to ensure that the game doesn't take a long time to run. Assuming for a moment that there are only regular scum kill deaths and lynches a 20 player game could theoretically take as many as 9 days to complete (more if we end up with any No Lynches are doctor saves), which sounds too long. An SK would form one of those groupings, so would be possible, but I consider two scum teams and an SK unlikely (especially given only 1 death last night), so effectively the presence of an SK replaces that of a scum team in my setup. I phrased it that way around (SK replaces a scum team, rather than a scum team replacing an SK) because I believe a second scum team to be the likelier of the two. Of course, I could be completely wrong with all of this and there only be one large scum team.
LaserGuy wrote:What do you think about plytho defending you from the lynch at the end of D1?

The scum read on plytho was mostly because of how I instinctively reacted to his digging around the Peaceful Whale claim, and in particular his attempts to keep re-highlighting it. However, having thought about it, I realised it was a stupid response - I thought that he must be scum because he's trying to highlight how a townie has posted more about their role than they really should have done. However, I have no idea why scum would need to do that in the open, unless they didn't have chat, hence why I didn't push any more about it. As you noted, everything else I saw about plytho is positive. I assume that plytho defended me because he believes I am town from the way I've played, although I'll have to look back to see if there's anything obvious. He might be scum either a) trying to buddy me (which I consider unlikely given how a lot of people are reading me as scum - what would be the point?), or b) believing me to be town (as opposed to indie or another scum team member), and wanting to get townie-cred if I ended up getting mislynched (more likely). Of course, there are other motivations, e.g. he is a Guardian Angel. I'll include any thoughts on this when I complete my re-read of him.

@LaserGuy, what were you trying to get at with the second half of that question?
LaserGuy wrote:I don’t like his commentary here about lurker lynches. Much like plytho’s argument against the SirG maneuver, he’s reading a fairly townie play as scummy because he isn’t in a townie frame of mind.

@jimbob: What do you think is the correct way for town to deal with lurkers?
I think you've missed my context. Would you rather lynch a lurker, whom you have little or no evidence of townieness or scumminess or somebody who you have a strong scum read on with plenty of context? Lynching lurkers early is fine when you have no other good candidates, but when you've got an active player who you think is likely to be scum, lynching them provides more information and links than the lurker lynch does. If there are no clear lynch targets then you should consider lynching a lurker - indeed I'm often someone to support lynching somebody who doesn't post much content D1, until I get a good scum read on somebody. Complete lurkers, such as Dark Horse, should be replaced by the mod, so town shouldn't need to deal with them. Other infrequently posting lurkers, such as Red Ryu in the early part of the game, naturally become scummier reads as the game goes on, because they aren't trying to find scum (the very act of just posting enough to not get replaced with no attempt to contribute or give RL reasons is scummy). In this situation the lurker becomes the scummiest player, and therefore the best lynch candidate. So, overall, town deal with lurkers by lynching them, but only when they are the best scum candidate.

@LaserGuy - what do you think about Zyth's suggestion that he'd rather lynch lurkers early than scum?

For my reads of Red Ryu and Spak, see my post with reads here. My read of plytho will follow shortly (and by shortly, I mean in the next couple of hours...), and I'll update Red Ryu's and Spak's based on any content since that point if I get time, too.

@LaserGuy - why did you ask me for reads on players who have posted very little since my previous set of reads of them?
bessie wrote:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:@bessie - spoilered because not really relevant to this game:
Spoiler:
You mentioned my "changed the setup" comment from Dark Tower. Although I admit I was scum, I think this was not a scum-tell. I'd almost certainly have said the same thing as Town. I was comparing the game's setup to the previous one Sabrar had modded (Dollhouse, I think?), so changing the setup was in reference to that, i.e. take that game as the starting point, and change a few things about it.
Why did you waste your time replying to this?
Because I had plenty of time at that point, it didn't take long to write, and I wanted to clarify something. I don't like leaving people with incorrect interpretations of my play, because it can lead to misunderstandings in future games.

Oh, warning - if my reads post doesn't appear later, it's because my wifi's on the fritz and my phone (currently acting as a hotspot) decided to die again.
BlitzGirl the Primordial
matthewglen wrote:Cueball looks concerned.

Image

User avatar
#HBC | YOLOSWAG
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2014 5:07 pm UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby #HBC | YOLOSWAG » Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:24 pm UTC

Deadline is Monday, September 25th at 11:59:59 PM EST! With 18 alive, it takes 10 to lynch! https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/j ... t=sanserif

Votals
BoomFrog (1): EGW,
Zyth (3): plytho, Laserguy, Sabrar
Spak (1): Zyth
mpolo (1): Frozenflame
Not Voting (12): Red Ryu, Gamma Emerald, Spak, heuristically_alone, BoomFrog, Peaceful Whale, Bessie, Znirk, jimbobmacdoodle, Madge, mpolo, Amrock

Judgement Votals
Amrock (7): LaserGuy, Zyth, plytho, EGW, Frozenflame, Sabrar, mpolo
Laserguy (0)

Not Judgement Voting (11): Red Ryu, Gamma Emerald, Spak, heuristically_alone, BoomFrog, Peaceful Whale, Bessie, Znirk, jimbobmacdoodle, Madge, Amrock

User avatar
Peaceful Whale
Posts: 167
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:38 pm UTC
Location: Northern Virginia

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Peaceful Whale » Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:52 pm UTC

I think amerock is screwed.
My meta for future reference
Spoiler:
cemper93 wrote:Your meta appears to be "just writes whatever is on his mind and doesn't remember what happened more than five hours ago"

User avatar
FrozenFlame
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:26 am UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby FrozenFlame » Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:57 pm UTC

Alright folks must apologize, my workload has cranked up quite a bit this week so I'm way busier than expected. Will be doing my best to keep up but no way I'll have time to do line by line responses to any of the mega posts that went up early in the day. Quote me to ping me if you have specific questions and I'll try to make sure I'm not leaving things hanging during my absent periods.

So I've basically only skimmed the new stuff today thus far and wanted to hit a few things:

plytho wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:Wait, how does this timeline work? When did you submit your action? Why did you think Zyth would be the target of a killing action at that point in time? Is Zyth still a townread?
mpolo was in the hospital more than a day before the deadline.

This is good context, definitely need to rethink mpolo night targeting motivations based on this

plytho wrote:Why was maven the NK target?
-scum knew he had a vig
-he was pushing their buddy Gamma
-they want us to think he was pushing their buddy Gamma
#HBC | Zyth wrote:I wonder where Maven's vig shot went.
From what he was posting I suspect his target was Gamma.

Interesting points here. I'm totally game for a Gamma wagon so if there's more to this please let me know

mpolo wrote:FrozenFlame - tunneling on me

Tunneling? Really? Idk what you consider to be tunneling but me simply swinging at you early to put some pressure on because I think night actions re: your slot were a little suspect is hardly tunneling. It's not like I cased you and said WE MUST LYNCH MPOLO TODAY BECAUSE OF THIS NIGHT ACTION STUFF! This characterization of me seems disingenuous.

plytho wrote:
Gamma Emerald wrote:Also going to state Sabrar and PW have entered my townreads. I have 7 so far. My personal guess for amount of scum is 5-6, leaning towards 5, so these townreads could eventually help develop a rudimentary PoE for me to use.
Who are the other 5 and what does PoE mean? (I'm aware of Path of Exile and Power over Ethernet but they don't fit the context.)
If this hasn't been answered yet, PoE in this context means Process of Elimination

Amrock wrote:Hey frozen its mulch


Yooooooo sup homie! Good to see you in this game, though I'm sad you had to replace into such a crap slot. =(

And thanks for the double vote, though it doesn't seem like its working?

#HBC | YOLOSWAG wrote:Deadline is Monday, September 25th at 11:59:59 PM EST! With 18 alive, it takes 10 to lynch! https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/j ... t=sanserif

Votals
BoomFrog (1): EGW,
Zyth (3): plytho, Laserguy, Sabrar
Spak (1): Zyth
mpolo (1): Frozenflame
Not Voting (12): Red Ryu, Gamma Emerald, Spak, heuristically_alone, BoomFrog, Peaceful Whale, Bessie, Znirk, jimbobmacdoodle, Madge, mpolo, Amrock

Judgement Votals
Amrock (7): LaserGuy, Zyth, plytho, EGW, Frozenflame, Sabrar, mpolo
Laserguy (0)

Not Judgement Voting (11): Red Ryu, Gamma Emerald, Spak, heuristically_alone, BoomFrog, Peaceful Whale, Bessie, Znirk, jimbobmacdoodle, Madge, Amrock


Definitely only one vote on mpolo. Or does my double vote only work when I target a specific slot? @ Amrock please re-clarify on the double vote works. @ YOLOSWAG can you please confirm whether or not the single vote on Mpolo is accurate?

On a more general note, I see why people want to go after Zyth but I just don't think a slot like his is the best play today. We definitely still need to thin the herd of the lower impact players who will be impossible to read in lategame if we let them coast. Sure it's possible that Zyth bussed moody but even if he is scum, it's not all bad letting him live another day phase or two to force him to lay more paper trail before we get his flip. I'm not entirely convinced he's scum though, even though now he seems to suspect me all of a sudden? Not really understanding the flip flop on me considering he seemed to be reading me pretty townie last phase. Just my two cents

Once I get confirmation from Amrock & YOLO re: this double vote stuff and how it allegedly works/whether or not its currently working as claimed I'll get off mpolo and figure out who I really want to push.

Also, did I see something about someone getting comparison cop results last night? Something about Zyth claiming to send results to another slot? Can I get a recap of what was claimed exactly?

User avatar
Sabrar
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:29 pm UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Sabrar » Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:05 pm UTC

FrozenFlame wrote:Also, did I see something about someone getting comparison cop results last night? Something about Zyth claiming to send results to another slot? Can I get a recap of what was claimed exactly?
Zen gave me the ability on N0 to send her 2 names N1. She claims she would receive an aligned/not-aligned result on them. I claim that the pm I received from the mod has different context. We're waiting to see if Zen also used her ability N1 and what that other player would claim to have received.
Meanwhile mpolo (as Busdriver) switched Amrock and Zen, so the former received the names I sent instead of Zen. Therefore we have no comparison result today.

User avatar
Sabrar
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:29 pm UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Sabrar » Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:09 pm UTC

FrozenFlame wrote:We definitely still need to thin the herd of the lower impact players who will be impossible to read in lategame if we let them coast. Sure it's possible that Zyth bussed moody but even if he is scum, it's not all bad letting him live another day phase or two to force him to lay more paper trail before we get his flip.
I don't understand where you're coming from. When has it ever been a good idea to let scum live? Lurkers may improve with time or we could get a Cop-result on them, eliminating the need of wasting a lynch on them. Meanwhile we'll definitely have to lynch scum, especially now that Vig is dead and Judgement is likely to be dead as well.

User avatar
jimbobmacdoodle
Posts: 149
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:40 pm UTC
Location: NP 811/The Present

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:52 pm UTC

Reads time. Let's see how many I can get through in the next one and a half hours before I need to start getting ready for bed.

plytho (doing first, at the request of LaserGuy): My general feeling with plytho is that for the most part, his thoughts have been very similar to my own, although due to how busy I've been he's usually beaten me to the punch when it comes to stating them this time. I've noticed this before in previous games as well, so we must have similar ideas of what's scummy and what isn't. Some examples from my re-read of him are his confusion over why Sabrar found Peaceful Whale's reads list scummy, and the voting for non-responsive lurkers issue. Despite the former of these points however, he doesn't assume Peaceful Whale to be town, and is prepared to look at other evidence. His thoughts on mpolo's, and to a lesser extent Madge's, claim seem well-reasoned. He also doesn't get too focused on one particular player, trying to keep track of reads on everybody, despite the game size - all of these seem to be well thought out and not forced, so are more likely coming from town. I also like what he's picked up on Zyth in a few places, such as his vague answers to questions, and his inconsistency. In particular, he doesn't blindly accept a high-post volume as townie. He also doesn't do the opposite either - lazily evaluate low-post-count, such as my own, as automatically scummy. His near-day-end rallying cry to get people voting is a townie point to me. He made a lot of effort to make sure there was no No Lynch, which would be unnecessary to do as scum. I haven't got time to review his Zyth case posted near the start of D2 in depth, but it certainly seemed well thought out, and a lot of effort put into casing somebody at the start of a new Day.

Summary - plytho is very likely Town.

Sabrar (going in order from plytho now): As I've noted in the past, I didn't understand why he found PW's joke reads list so scummy, but it's only a minor point. His questioning of moody in response to moody's thoughts on mpolo's claim seems unlikely to come from a scum-buddy, as do his later comments on moody. His content use per post is relatively low, but that's mostly because his post volume is high even for Sabrar (hypothesis: Sabrar's posting rate increases with the number of players, unlike mine which decreases, it seems!). I'm a little surprised it took Sabrar until this post to realise the point about Peaceful Whale not likely having a coaching scum-buddy. His reads are reasonable, and justified. Most of the opinions he has posted match my general feeling of players. When pressured by Maven over his moody vote, he defends it well. He's also one of several people who started looking at Zyth late D1 (aside - if Zyth should ever flip town, it would be worth looking at who were discussing these suspicions at the end of the day, as they might be a scum team trying to start the D2 lynch-wagon early), which I'm tentatively in agreement with, pending my own re-read of Zyth. The first part of this post is interesting - how could three or four players likely be the entire scum team, or does he mean the entirety of one scum team? Either way, it seems like a slip of knowing more about the setup than he should. His immediate vote for Zyth straight out of the blocks on D2, claiming it is "obvious" is not so to me in isolation (I assume it's because he pushed against the moody lynch), but he makes little to no attempt to (re-)explain his reasons. This is in contrast to the cases provided by others against Zyth.

@Sabrar - please could you clarify why you believed Zyth to be scum at that point in time.

Summary - overall, nothing's too significantly scummy from him, and there are plenty of townie things. I think it is fairly likely that Sabrar is town.

SirGabriel/Amrock - not sure there's much point in doing a read here. I don't see why they would have lied about their role and win condition at this point, and I agree with others that I don't want to risk an indie win preventing a town win. I'm not massively in a hurry to see them lynched, but the judgement lynch seems as good as any way of dealing with them.

@Amrock - If you want to have any chance of staying alive, you're going to need to convince us that LaserGuy is scum, and that your use to town is well worth the risk of you sneaking an indie win ahead of town.

Spak - I already did a read based on most of his D1 content, where I labelled him as probably town. His posts since then haven't had a huge amount in them either way, presumably because he was desperately trying to catch up. I like this comment: "The OMGUS is strong in this one lol" with regards to Gamma's read on Maven, especially given Maven's flip.

Overall, I'm still reading Spak as likely town, but he could really do with some clearer reads on players - who does he find to be scum? Who are moody's likely scum buddies. For the time being, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and say it's currently just due to him being behind.

Znirk - his initial post seemed a reasonable way to start things out, but he's since gone very quiet. He does raise a reasonable point about voting for Madge being a good way to avoid committing to an opinion. On the other hand, I noticed that he did not post any real opinion on moody before joining the eventual wagon to lynch him. Overall, he definitely needs to post more opinions. I'd particularly like to hear his thoughts on BoomFrog, whom he has as one of his scummier players, but hasn't really explained. Similarly, his thoughts on Ryu and Gamma would be welcome. I'm giving him a bit of slack due to previously claimed RL issues, so he is currently just the townie side of the neutral line, but the longer he goes without more contribution the scummier he'll slide.

Current reads on the players I haven't re-read since D1. These are mostly gut reads:

Town: Evil George Washington, Madge (possibly indie), LaserGuy, Peaceful Whale, bessie, mpolo
Somewhere close to the boundary between the two: Red Ryu, heuristically_alone
Scum: Zyth, Gamma Emerald
People I literally have no idea on: FrozenFlame, BoomFrog

I'll try to find time tomorrow to properly re-read these 12 players, in particular the 6 people not in the Town bucket.

That's all I've got time for. Turns out that it takes a REALLY long time to re-read active players in a game this size.
BlitzGirl the Primordial
matthewglen wrote:Cueball looks concerned.

Image

User avatar
#HBC | Red Ryu
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2014 4:40 am UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby #HBC | Red Ryu » Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:39 pm UTC

I'll be posting via mobile got slammed with calls at with.

User avatar
Evil George Washington
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 2:04 am UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Evil George Washington » Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:36 am UTC

Peaceful Whale wrote:However I'm not so sure everyone is right about boomfrog, I don't like him?/her?.
Zyrth... I'm not so sure... losts of people are leaning scum on him, but I feel like there are scummyer people. But he seems to be backing into a corner. Way to go plytho!


Go more into these two. What about boomfrog don't you like? Why do you feel Zen is backing into a corner? Why do you say 'way to go Plytho!'?

If you had school, did you say that in D1 that you were busy because of school? Just wondering.

User avatar
Evil George Washington
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 2:04 am UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Evil George Washington » Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:37 am UTC

#HBC | Zyth wrote:Znirk, h_a, Spak


I agree. How are you reading MPOLO?

User avatar
Evil George Washington
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 2:04 am UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Evil George Washington » Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:38 am UTC

Meaning, I agree those people should post. I'm at work, might post later.

User avatar
Spak
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:51 pm UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Spak » Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:03 am UTC

Sweet, we got one! I'm glad that the Moody push ended up going well. Gonna be honest and say that I didn't re-read during the night phase because I was away on a floor retreat, but I'm trying my best to get on top of the game.

LaserGuy wrote:My feeling is that Zyth felt that his wagon on jimbob was about to collapse and needed another player to come forward and vote.

I'm not 100% sure about how Zen would play this because I've never done any games with her, but in general DGames scumteams try to avoid unnatural association like this. Bessie may well have been doing this to try and make Zen look better, but I don't think Zen would request another player to come in and vote.

LaserGuy wrote:Zyth posts here that “bessie will join us” (ie. the jimbob wagon) 2 minutes after bessie changes her vote to jimbob, even though she was reading Gamma and Ryu as scummier (and Gamma was ahead in the votes). As written, it doesn’t sound like he knows that bessie has posted this, but it comes in very quickly and confidently after her vote, but it isn't a ninja edit.

Ninja edits aren't a thing on SWF because we're notified when a new post has occurred in the thread without having to refresh the page (so we can look at posts real-time as people put them up). We are occasionally ninja'd, but then we just say so in the next post and then reply to whatever we were ninja'd by.

Aside from that, I'm not sure what to think of your Bessie/Zen scumteam. Bessie was my fourth strongest town lean thus far this game and I still have Zen as a scumlean, but I agree that there's a strange association between the two and bessie's vote and assessment of the situation don't match up.

With that said, I still think that BoomFrog is scummy to the green, slippery, explosive core.

LaserGuy wrote:I really don’t like his logic around the SirG push. It’s coming from a very scummy mindset--he doesn’t understand why sacrificing a scummy town is within the realm of townie play, is even good townie play.

In retrospect, I can see where he was coming from. The vote was going to be so split between trying to activate Madge and trying to find a wagon target that we might've had a NL if the nominated slot were to turn us down and not had enough time to re-organize. Sure, that would be the sure person for the next day's lynch, but if it were just a defiant townie, we'd be wasting 2 lynches.

Until very recently (when I had to replace in for Ro in my most recent SWF game), I was of the mindset that you should never let your slot die because most of the time, it's the only confirmed townie thing in the game. It took two years for it to click that sometimes town has to die in order for all of the rest of town to figure out the game. The point of being suspicious of anyone they were looking at the SirG wagon might have been going too far, but I think that was just him trying to pressure a lot of people (as he had done in the past). A SirG lynch would've been a legitimate plan, but depending upon the player who we instructed to hammer, it could've also gone very poorly

LaserGuy wrote:jimbob, plytho, and Red Ryu?

jimbob - Suspicious because of his early posts (basically the same reasons that you listed), but the slot honestly flew under my radar for a majority of my initial read-through. I'd have to go back through and look at his content individually in order to give a more detailed answer.
plytho - I've liked him thus far this game. He's given solid questioning, I seem to be on the same page as him on most accounts when I've read through, and he seems to be approaching the game with a really good sense of humor and not crumpling when someone confronts him.
Red Ryu - He's played as I've come to expect from him and I think his reasoning thus far has been fairly logical.

More later, hard to keep up with walls lol.
"As a friend, it is my duty to inform you that your life appears to need more justice."
~Drake Redcrest, 2005

Amrock
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:13 pm UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Amrock » Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:09 am UTC

So basically, I pick two players. One to get the vote, one the target. I targeted Frozen Flame to----> Peaceful whale. You get a double vote when voting the target. If the target is lynched thrice, I win, or I win if I surrive.


Hey, this Lazer dude seems pretty scummy. Why not get a double lynch on him and I can be an unkillable double vote giver!!! I'm def siding with town as long as Frozen and Ran are there!!

User avatar
#HBC | Zyth
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2014 5:11 pm UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby #HBC | Zyth » Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:32 am UTC

Notes & Questions
Spoiler:
Peaceful Whale wrote:I wonder if mod votes count towards getting an ability activated, if so, Madge should do that. :lol:
lmao
_______________________________________________________________________________________

mpolo wrote:Really annoyed with a "not doing anything" when I put several hours into reading this thread today and produced a long post. (Just spent another hour reading the end of the day.) If it is absolutely required to get a post in every 2-3 hours you can just lynch me, because I do have a life outside the forum.
I'm so sorry. I'm the one that needs to read. I misread your post asking me about my claim. I thought you were asking me about n0. Yes, I used it n1 as well: on George.

I don't think I'm being too defensive. Two of the first few posts as soon as the day started were giant walls against me. Could you go through and tell me which points you think are valid against me and which points you think I've nullified or cleared up? I find it troublesome that I'm one of your scum reads when I was your strongest town read going into the night. What about my play did you not like at the end of the day? You have jim in your scum reads so I'm really confused here. It looks to me like you are just trying to line up with consensus despite not actually reading me as scum.

_______________________________________________________________________________________

jimbobmacdoodle wrote: and to a lesser extent

lelz
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:(aside - if Zyth should ever flip town, it would be worth looking at who were discussing these suspicions at the end of the day, as they might be a scum team trying to start the D2 lynch-wagon early)
nod nod

_______________________________________________________________________________________

@Frozen, did you answer to the fact that you were conflating LaserGuy and mpolo in your mpolo analysis?

_______________________________________________________________________________________

@bessie, regarding being irritated with plytho and Boom for the supposed fishing.

Your explanation doesn't make sense to me, because Whale had flat out claimed that he could do something at that point. I get your irritation with Boom. He was directly trying to pull information out of Whale. plytho, however, was making an observation about you. It had nothing to do with PW's claim directly. It had to do with the discrepancy in your play. If you suspected that plytho was trying to somehow indirectly provoke PW, you could've simply addressed plytho's concerns while at the same time telling PW not to say anything more.

_______________________________________________________________________________________

Gamma Emerald wrote:
plytho wrote:
Gamma Emerald wrote:My read on jimbob is a scumread, though for different reasons than before. I feel the wagon shift off of him near EoD was fairly gross.
Do you think scum shifted the wagon from scum to scum?

LOL
I was still working from the day 1 thoughts I had, not thinking to fact check with the scum flip



w...t...f..?

_______________________________________________________________________________________

Regarding multiple teams/multiple kills

In the game's I've seen with multipe factions, there's usually some trade off between the teams. Such as:

A. One team has kill, the other has a bunch of PRs.
B. One team has an even night kill, the other has an odd night kill.
C. On team has a kill that involves chance. OS's Two-Face role had a %50 chance of the kill going through.

I don't want to give more to the idea that I have too much information, but hell it's better than town potentially heading down the wrong direction due to mis-speculation.

_______________________________________________________________________________________

If town!Megaman can continue to absorb roles, then it's best they keep their identity secret. If not, giving us the info that moody had would be very helpful.

_______________________________________________________________________________________

Agree with Laser that Whale's situation is different than an unidentified cop. If he has insight on a player, I'm for hearing it.

_______________________________________________________________________________________

Sabrar wrote:@Zen: I apologize if I caused you any distress. It was not my intention.

I'm always in distress.

Sabrar wrote:
FrozenFlame wrote:Also, did I see something about someone getting comparison cop results last night? Something about Zyth claiming to send results to another slot? Can I get a recap of what was claimed exactly?
Zen gave me the ability on N0 to send her 2 names N1. She claims she would receive an aligned/not-aligned result on them. I claim that the pm I received from the mod has different context. We're waiting to see if Zen also used her ability N1 and what that other player would claim to have received.
Meanwhile mpolo (as Busdriver) switched Amrock and Zen, so the former received the names I sent instead of Zen. Therefore we have no comparison result today.
I think it's best what that you out what you think is a discrepancy, because I've looked over my role multiple times, and I don't see what you're referring to. Is it that you're not told what the names will do?

_______________________________________________________________________________________

@Jim, can you go into why you're having such a difficult time reading Frozen?

_______________________________________________________________________________________

plytho wrote: [twitch]
lolz :mrgreen:

(btw I mentioned that Frozen was the "someone else" in my response to Laserguy)

_______________________________________________________________________________________

This question from bessie was suspicious to me:

bessie wrote:Question for DGamers: Does Overswarm provide safeclaims to scum?


Becuase earlier she made specific note of having seen the mod background that I provided:

bessie wrote:Zyth, thanks for the information re Overswarm’s games in this post, it was extremely helpful. I’m still thinking about the setup (because as already stated I like setup speculation), but I’ll refrain from dragging down the D1 discussion with it, since the majority of players who have played Overswarm’s games believe it would be a waste of time, at least on D1.


which is referencing:

#HBC | Zyth wrote:Regarding the setup and setup speculation. I have to disagree with Frozen. OS games are well thought out, but I wouldn't say they are definitely well balanced. They tend to be highly experimental and can be quite unstable. They are usually built upon the assumption that each player will be astute enough to utilize their role to its full potential, or at least utilize them in the way that OS intended. This however is highly idealistic and often not the case. OS games are highly experimental and trying to speculate about the setup is futile this early on. Unlike with standard games, many of the roles have multiple abilities. If certain roles aren't used as OS intended them to be, game balance can very much be tipped one way or the other. Also claims should be taken as completely neutral, as safe claims are usually provided. Some examples of roles used in the past:

Spiderman, Evading Townie: If killed by mafia, is instead removed from the game until the next night phase. Returns as symbiotic black suit spider man. Each night can search a player, if they are mafia, he will join their faction.

Scarecrow: Town Manipulative Mason:
-Can form a Masonry with another player with a fake role name of their choice. The player will receive the message "You have been put in a Masonry with (role name)"
-Can Day Janitor
-If tied with another player or faction at endgame, will win the tie

Gau- Town Cop: Can only use his ability if he did not vote the previous day.

Captain Kirk- Town Double Voter:
-One time, during the night phases chooses two players. Only those two players can be voted for the next day.
-Can double vote a player

Kefka - Mafia Vote Manipulator ***This is OS' signature role that has been in multiple games in different varieties. I've seen it has both indy and mafia.***
-Once a day, can force a player that voted for him to vote for someone else in their next post, which remains permanent throughout the day.
-Can choose a player at night and will be told of their role and abilities, and will be immune to their abilities the following day and night phase.
-One time, during the night can use the ability "Goner". The next day phase it will only take a single vote to lynch a player. The mod will announce this and that no votes will count until an hour from the start of the day.
-One time, that night anyone that attempts to kill him will be told their kill was successful, but he will not be killed.
-Has mod-confirmed set up knowledge.

User avatar
#HBC | Zyth
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2014 5:11 pm UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby #HBC | Zyth » Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:40 am UTC

Defense Stuff

@plytho case.
If you still think I'm scum, at the end can you summarize the points you think I've nullified, the points you think are in my favor, and the points that you believe still stand against me?
Spoiler:
plytho wrote:
Zen’s responses to me:

My case on Zen, expanded:
-the late DH push (particularly this near lie)
This is what triggered me to look into Zen’s motivations. Zen has been active all game and DH had been discussed multiple times. Pushing this point so late in the game doesn’t make sense. His evidence is also annoyingly misleading. Zen has experience with OS games, at least that’s what he’s saying here. I checked back on smashboards and the last 4 Overswarm games have that special rule 3 (and basically the same rules list). Clearly it’s part of the standard OS rules list.

Bro, I haven't played an OS game in 3-4 years. I didn't even play in the game you linked because OS was being a jerk and wouldn't let me use my hydra. I don't have a rule list memorized from 4 years ago in a game I didn't even play in. And even though this is an OS set up, I thought the OP was marshy's. That's why that line stuck out to me so much, because it didn't seem like something marshy would say unless there was something special about it. When he said that he had nothing further to say about DH after our inquiry, I went into full on conspiracy mode and thought there was something fishy going on with the DH spot. That's my bad.

--Oh wow I just checked the game on that date and it's actually been 5 years holy zargons time flies.


Well, this might be a mistake you made and it isn’t all that clear from the OP that this is standard OS. Although the very next rule after special note 3 does refer to OS games as ‘my’ games. I admit I didn’t check the dates on the OS games. I went to look for them because of special note 4 and noticed the similarity myself so I expected DGamers to notice this too. So, honest mistake or deliberate misguiding? I guess I’m null on this point.


-the late reads list that had been promised for days
There were other people that took a lot of time to provide a reads list, but as I said, Zen has been active all game. He was around but didn’t post a list until he got a view on most people’s opinions.

Not sure what to say to this. It's a silly point.

Well, you could say: “I had good reasons to keep my reads to myself until late in the game, these are my reasons:”

I just don't think it's scummy for someone to post their reads later than sooner when there's a lot of missing variables. I wanted to be sure on my reads before posting them, especially regarding Spak. I also didn't want my read of him to influence his response to the questions I had asked him.


-the 4th wagon (it's not the jimbob part I'm bothered by)
Starting an alternative Wagon to the 3 likely ones, with about 24 hours left in the game has town scrambling. Zen was active all game. If he wanted to push jimbob he could have done so much earlier.

Addressed above.

Addressed where? Is this another ‘silly point’? Are we supposed to just trust your wagonomics about the correct time to propose another wagon (based on a weak read)?

I meant that I address it in my other post. I am of the competing wagon school of thought. As is Ranmaru. As is Boom. As is Sabrar. So no you don't really have to trust me. I do hope though that after the game, you consider employing this concept in future games.


-the SirG lynch plan
Zen was one of the people supporting this. I explained earlier why this may be indicative of scum.

I'm the one that brought up the idea on redirecting the kill to SirG, silly. And I made certain that mpolo was aware of SirG's claim and this plan.

I'm starting to question whether or not you're actually being genuine here.


You bringing up the redirecting is a point in your favour. That was one of the reasons I almost read you as town.


-the 100% scum read claim
The claim on itself is not necessarily a scum tell but extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and we still haven’t seen the evidence. So: stellar evidence: good Zen. anything less: scum Zen, more dodging: scum Zen
Time for my after-run shower. I'll be back with some shower thougths on the implications of this judgement day on the GLaDOS possibilities.


jackie_chan_wut_face.jpg

I didn't realize how weak the points you were making on me were. I'm sorry, but I really don't know what you're saying here. My 100% thing was just me being sillyBoisterousZen. Were you fishing for a pr result or sumfin? Cause it seems like you were fishing for a pr result or sumfin.


I don’t know what you mean by pr result?
You really don’t know what I’m saying? I’ve been asking who that read is and why, expecting a strong case. You have refused to answer all D1 long only to come out now saying you were just being silly and it was jimbob all along (who you had no strong read on)?
This a very weak answer. Is this your clarification after the fact? What are you getting out of this? I think you had a plan with that claim and it failed for some reason.

PR = Power Role. It seems like you were fishing for a result such as a guilty. It seems like you're constantly fishing for PR info tbh.

I never addressed you directly D1, but I thought it was clear from my jimbob push that he was the one I was referring to. I guess I can see how you thought I had some elaborate plan? That's not the case though. I just like to pretend that my reads are stronger than they actually are so that scum feels a sense of impending doom and more likely to screw up.



--

@laser questions
If you still think I'm scum, at the end can you summarize the points you think I've nullified, the points you think are in my favor, and the points that you believe still stand against me?
Spoiler:
HBC | Zyth wrote:You misunderstood. I'm referring to my 3 scum reads in this post. At the time of which was jim, spak, and ruy. I was stating why I wanted jim over the other two. Someone told me earlier in the game that jim was a strong scum player.


Why didn't you answer Sabrar about this when he asked you earlier? Does jimbob's play in this game give you the impression that he's a strong scum player? I'm not sure how you get "We take him out and the rest falls apart" when jimbob's contributions have been minimal and he wasn't really pushing anyone.

I'm not sure which Sabrar post you're referring to. I probably thought it wasn't important.

I just had a feeling that if we lynched jimbob, the rest of the scum team would be easy to smoke out because of how much support there was toward lynching the others that were low on my read list. I also thought that with how little resistance there was to a moody lynch that, if he was scum, his role probably wasn't important for the team. If possible, I wanted to lynch a scummy player that had more resistance, because there would be a good chance that they played a pivotal role to the balance of the game. This idea came to me actually when I was looking for past OS roles to give xkcd players some examples. That Kefka role that I posted was super powerful, but OS put another role on the team that helped balance it out: Princess peach, if lynched caused the night phase to be skipped. I also remember an OS game long ago in which I was on the scum team. The entire structure of the team was centered around one role and once he was lynched it was hell for us to try and recover. Based on these, I have the inclination that if we hit the right player, the game balance will shift heavily in town's favor and there will be sort of a snowball effect toward its success.


HBC | Zyth wrote:You misunderstood. The Ryu line above has nothing to do with the jim line. I was saying build a jim wagon so that scum has to choose between that wagon and the moody wagon.

Why didn't you clarify this is what you meant in response to EGW when he asked you about this before?

As I've mentioned a couple of times, I think it's ridiculous for players to ask for clarification in the midst of something, as it just gives scum info on how to react.

Why did you want moody to be town here, by the way?

I didn't seriously want him to be town. I just knew that if he flipped scum, then today I'd have to constantly be dealing with the idea that I was trying to defend him.


--

@laser and plytho's comments on my "why im not scum with moody".
Laser Green. Plytho Orange. Me Blue.

Spoiler:
#HBC | Zyth wrote:X. I don't bus.


So you’d no-lynch before you bus? Because your move to moody came at a time when moody was the only lynchable target.

Huh? Yes, of course. Why would someone prefer to lynch their buddy over a no lynch? That's simply a free night kill for scum.

#HBC | Zyth wrote:1. I am the one that initally brought attention to moody.


Not true, Maven had moody as his third lynch candidate before you made that post.

I don't really see your contribution here as being notable. Sabrar starting pushing moody on page 3. Maven was pushing hard several posts before you made this comment.

You're right, I forgot Maven did so. I concede this point.

#HBC | Zyth wrote:I am also the first one to have made a point of suspicion against him.


This does seem true and is contradictory to your claimed meta (hard town read on buddies). But I’m too paranoid to believe a player who likes to change style

This isn't about play style, it's about strategy. Bussing is just not a good strategy. Furthermore, it's not something I've ever changed and I think the posts that I've linked show that.

#HBC | Zyth wrote:2. jimbob / Dark Horse would have been a really ridiculous counter wagons to a moody wagon. Ryu and Gamma were both really easy pushes. Especially gamma. The only way there is scum!Zen here is if Ryu and Gamma are also on the same team.


Maybe the Ryu and Gamma wagons were too obvious for you.

If the point is that I was trying to save my scumbud, why wouldn't I push for someone that was viable? Especially if the theory is that I thought they were on an opposing scum team. I would be saving a bud while at the same time getting town cred for a successful scum lynch.

My speculation here is that you wanted to push someone on the other scumteam to get townie credit for your own.

Wasn't Ryu in that list for the other scum team? Ryu had a lot of support for being lynched and higher than moody in our prevote tally if I recall.

#HBC | Zyth wrote:My jimbob case was super weak and Frozen was the only other person looking at jim as a possible candidate at that time. Why the hell would scum!Zen choose jim, JIM as the wagon to save his scummate moody? Seriously, plytho / sabrar / laser you really need to answer this if your argument is going to hold any weight.


Yes, your case was very weak. I don’t understand why a townie would try to lynch a weak scum lean. I think bessie was also looking at jimbob as a possible lynch. I’m not sure moody was the one target at the time you moved on jimbob. If i recall correctly the heat was on Red Ryu, Gamma and moody. All with decent reasoning. Then you come in with weak case on jimbob and I just can’t see why a townie would do that. I can see why scum might try something like this.

1. The votes are diluted. Instead of three wagons converging to two competing wagons you add a fourth making it harder for people to make up their minds and consolidate.
2. If just one of those three is your scum mate, a town flip on jimbob won’t reveal who it is. The heat will be on you for your pushing of the mislynch, not on your buddy.
3. Two of the three could be your scum mates making point 2 an even better play from the scum pov.


Regarding the bolded: I stated in this very post why a townie would do so (the part of the quote that you left out). I wanted the info we'd get from competing wagons. And if I were able to get a jim lynch through, I felt that he had a more important role than moody.

Regarding the scum reasons:

1. What would be the point of diluting the votes if it weren't to get a no lynch? It's clear that I didn't want a no lynch (as I pushed for moody when it came down to it). I confused here though, because above you seemed to allude to a no lynch being bad for scum. If that's the case why do you think scum would do this?
2. Uhh, okayy? I don't think you really believe this as scum motivation. This seems really forced. I can't blame you though, I too like having lists of 3's.
3. This I can agree with. You're putting the cart before the horse though here. We don't even know if they are scum.



#HBC | Zyth wrote:3. I was always going to switch over to moody if jim didn't get the votes. And I was no way going to have the day end with a no lynch. I wanted counter wagons so that scum would have to choose between one or the other. When I felt the deadlock was reached, and we thus got all we could out of the competing wagons, I was going to switch over to moody and bring everyone on the jim wagon with me, and that is what I did.


Ending the day with no lynch would be a super obvious scum tell so the fact that you didn’t push for no lynch is null.

No? Multiple people would've been responsible for the no lynch. It would've been the fault of both sides for not being able to reach consensus.

I agree with plytho that the moody wagon was basically a lock by this point, so whether or not you were scum you probably would have made the switch. It's a null tell as far as alignment is concerned, IMHO, though on these forums late switches of wagons like you did are usually read as being scummy.

It definitely wasn't locked. If the votes on jim had not switched to moody, it definitely would've been a no lynch.

#HBC | Zyth wrote:4. Right before I switched to moody, plytho and Frozen were trying to get a last minute swing toward gamma. This is actually why I voted moody at that exact moment, cause Frozen made a post right before trying to make a play towards Gamma.

ight after these is when I make my let's mobilize on moody post, because I was afraid of them swinging the lynch toward gamma. Looking back on it, I think this is the strongest evidence for town!Zen (or at least nonBudsWithmoodyZen). The only scenario that this is not the case is if Gamma is on the same team as Zen-moody.


That scenario is what I’m suspicious of right now. If Gamma is town you get a some townie points for not trying to switch here. But not a lot since the wagon didn’t feel too viable without a big effort (what I’m pointing out to FF).

That's fair enough. Again though, you're putting the cart before the horse, assuming Gamma is scum. Your case on me is really centered around this, but it's not even an established fact. I don't even think Gamma is scum.

I will go back and reread this again. This wasn't my interpretation of the situation at all.


--

For Sabrar
@Sabrar

Spoiler:
Sabrar wrote:Zen's read-list

Meta-read on EGW is too general for my taste, logical conclusion would be that he can also always tell if EGW is scum which I doubt. Feels lazy.
Not a meta read (see response to Laser). Is definitely lazy though. Delving into ovbtown reads is dumb and a waste of time.

Read on Maven is also lazy, just pointing towards others' opinions. This could be valid (liking all the things others did) however most players would still make an attempt to point out specific things they liked. Also this glosses over the fatc whether there was anything in his content she didn't like.

Dumb and a waste of time. Maven was obvtown.

Her 'read' on Znirk and moody is non-existent. Znirk I could understand though others were able to form an opinion based on those few posts. moody is inexcusable from such an experienced player. He provided sufficient amount of content to analyze plus if Zen's unable to form an opinion of her own then she could always read the reads of other players and comment on what she agrees and disagrees with. Seems like he doesn't want to form an opinion on moody, especially when you consider this.

Fair point.

She has 4 reasons to find Madge scummy with regards to the first post.
i. As has been shown on plenty of occasions people miss content all the time. And actually Zen pointed out the indie solo-wins a full page
earlier so he's jumping to conclusions when she thinks Madge couldn't have missed it.
ii. This makes sense from Zen's pov if she doesn't consider xkcd-meta, just like the comment makes sense from Madge's pov because she's not familiar with OS-meta.
iii. Lol. Also not true. Madge already showed interest on me asking about GLaDOS.
iv. Disagree completely, also totally hilarious as Zen is using 'mostly' twice in her read of me.

i. Doubt she missed it.
ii. Meta has nothing to do with logic. She conveys in this very line that she is aware that the game is by a host from another site with a different perspective on indies. So its irrational to use xkcd meta.
iii. I said it's the first time she has shown an investment in anything other than her role. Not interest. She clearly had an investment in promoting indies as being good here.
iv. Disagree if you want, but the points ii and iii are solid. It's funny though looking back on it, because moody's lynch just proves me right about this point.


The second quote is okay though it's more like standard Madge rather than agenda-y.
Not claiming Town in the first post should be null-tell, Madge knows full well that we like to lynch indies.

This goes against what you're arguing above. Apparently you feel that Madge has the exact opposite perspective on indies.


Spoiler:
Sabrar wrote:re: Red Ryu
#HBC | Zyth wrote:I do not at all believe Ruy was able to gain these reads over a 30 minute skim!
Why? You said it would take 5 minutes to read Seven Deadly Sins which had 350 posts. Are you that much better at fast-reading than Ryu?

7DS were all one liners. This game clearly isn't. I was being genuine when I said I don't feel like I should be taking your points seriously. And stuff like this is why.
#HBC | Zyth wrote:I don't know for what possible reason he could have had me as town at that point in the game.
Total wine.

Thank you for being so elaborate. There wasn't enough data for Ryu to have had a town read on me. His read was likely made up.
#HBC | Zyth wrote:Fake hunting. Town would want to investigate into the context of Boom's posts on his own. Ruy here is just looking for some post to skim and make a conclusion over.
This is a prime example where she interprets a remark according to her own views without even considering other possibilities.

Thank you for showing how the view is wrong and listing the other possibilities.

#HBC | Zyth wrote:Clearly skimmed Madges post, assumed she was indy, and pushed for her lynch without looking into it further. Let's say that Ruy was town!Ruy skimming to try and catch up. I still believe he would actually take more thorough look at those he's pushing to lynch. This shows to me that Ruy doesn't have a townie's aversion to mislynching.
This I agree with.
#HBC | Zyth wrote:I also feel like some of his recent posts are being guided by mates, because they take on a different tone despite the fact that he's still clearly not caught up.
This also could be valid.

re: Spak
I actually agree with her points. I don't think they are strong enough without some more detailed explanation (e.g. not having content in first 2 posts is quite normal, though if the player just lurks afterward then it's another matter entirely) but the basis is okay.

re:jimbob
She again has issues with some wording without checking jimbob's previous games to get a feel for him. This reminds me:
I also think it is why players have a difficulty readying moody, because he naturally uses language like this a lot
Another soft defense of moody. What is this even based on? Does she suddenly know moody's natural style?

Another fair point on zen-moody connection. NGL for Zen. Seriously, not being sarcastic. I would think this was scummy too.

For Post Game: Really frustrating that you guys think the only reason I can get the gist of players here is by being scum with them/someone from xkcd. I just cussing read for cuss sakes.


There could be some truth in her second point though again she takes it too far in my opinion, building jimbob's entire mindset from a half-sentence.

User avatar
#HBC | Zyth
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2014 5:11 pm UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby #HBC | Zyth » Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:44 am UTC

I have a feel like Sabrar knows that my points on indyMadge are legit, but he's trying to stay on her good side in case she has something that can affect him.

User avatar
#HBC | Zyth
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2014 5:11 pm UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby #HBC | Zyth » Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:09 am UTC

Vote: Znirk

User avatar
#HBC | Red Ryu
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2014 4:40 am UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby #HBC | Red Ryu » Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:10 am UTC

Sorry for excuses but I'll have to put my posts off til tomorrow .

User avatar
Evil George Washington
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 2:04 am UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Evil George Washington » Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:41 am UTC

Madge since you won't use your vote I want you to proxy your vote to mine.

User avatar
Sabrar
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:29 pm UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Sabrar » Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:43 am UTC

@EGW: can you paraphrase how the pm asking about the 2 names is worded?

User avatar
Evil George Washington
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 2:04 am UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Evil George Washington » Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:44 am UTC

I think you have me confused with Zen.

User avatar
bessie
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:27 am UTC
Location: California

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby bessie » Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:45 am UTC

Some responses, p28 and p29.

LaserGuy wrote:
bessie wrote:Is this in reference to my rant about early claiming? I think all of them would have been tossed around as lynch candidates if they didn’t claim. The first three for lurking and/or active lurking, and lack of scumhunting. At the time I made that post all three had almost no content, aside from talking about themselves. The fourth not as much as the others for reasons, but possibly for scummy content and lack of scumhunting.

Yes, that was what I was referring to. I guess from a meta point of view I don't disagree with your assessment of claims, I'm just not sure in this particular instance that the claims necessarily helped their makers as much as you seemed to believe that they did.
Perhaps. But without the claim, do you think Madge could get away with this?
Madge wrote:I don't even know. Wine with moody and jimbob, zyth, glados... so much to keep track of. Add to that that there's people like EGW that I've never played with before and don't know how to read (again, who am i kidding, I don't know how to read anyone).
She’s given an excuse to not even try, and is taking it for granted that her claim is enough to keep her alive.

LaserGuy wrote:
bessie wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:@bessie: You mention in your read that jimbob generally doesn’t lurk as scum. How many games have you played with him as scum?

Note that I also mention he generally doesn’t lurk at all.

Yes, but you specifically mentioned that he doesn't lurk as scum, as though this was of particular note or in some way influencing your read. If your point is that he doesn't generally lurk, why not just say that?
Just emphasis that jimbob is not a lurker, that we can take his word that he is busy at truth, and that I don’t consider the low content a scum tell in his case.

LaserGuy wrote:
bessie wrote:There’s three pages of content between those two posts. jimbob’s posts did nothing to improve my read on him. And I felt that I didn’t have a concrete scum read on Gamma Emerald, more of a gut read, and it makes me uncomfortable to vote on a gut feeling. Upon reflection jimbob got promoted to my lynch pick.

Read this post, then read Evil George Washington’s post immediately following. I was trying to alter my play to a more impression based approach until we made it through D1, and as I suspected, it is not a good playstyle for me. I’m a detail oriented nitpicker, and can’t do the type of behavior reads that others do (see SDK).

You decided to do this for exactly this one post? The one where you are placing your vote? Looking through your content, I don't see anything else that really looks at all like this.
I tried to do it bit during D1, but it wasn’t working out for me. It’s not my style, and I was not able to produce decent quality posts, as you noticed. I’m better at the systematic reply/response style, and the analysis type read I did on moody. I’m still going to try out some things to stay more current, like trying to respond in the mornings to the most recent content and work backwards at night. So maybe I can actually have some conversations with Evil George Washington. :)

LaserGuy wrote:
bessie wrote:Why would you say this? It wouldn’t be customary for someone to reveal a cop result on a townie, unless the townie was in danger of being lynched.

Cops don't generally out their targets because it also outs the cop. This circumstance is different because PW has already given away enough information that scum can probably make a reasonable guess as to the nature of his role. In that case, my initial reaction is that it's more worthwhile for PW to claim his results so that they aren't lost. The analogous situation being closer "Follow the Cop", where the cop has already claimed, rather than a cop who hasn't claimed outing themselves unnecessarily to save a townie.
Peaceful Whale has not confirmed or denied a specific power, nor has he claimed a night result. Why are you fishing so hard?

plytho wrote:@bessie: thanks for finally answering this old question in your opening post today. Why didn't you answer right away? It would have saved us a lot of trouble. Do you still think I was trying to rolefish?
I did not want to discuss Peaceful Whale’s targets, because I was speculating that I might be one, and if he were to confirm it, it might make me a night kill candidate. I can’t comprehend how town!plytho failed to grasp any of this on D1, and why you kept pushing this after I pretty much told you to drop it. Yes, I still think you were trying to role fish.

#HBC | Red Ryu wrote:Laserguy is a replacement for dark horse, Cool will read his stuff. Oh me yarm we can kill Amrock, done and done will judgement him easily since no one should die over this. Oh great...he made his notes before his role pm.....can I even try to read intent in them then? The next post is automatically null then. :/
Red Ryu, don’t be so quick to brush off LaserGuy’s content. If he wrote it before he got his role pm, it’s useful because it’s written from the point of view of not-mafia.

Amrock wrote:Definitely not scum hunting but will just sheep Ranmaru. And give vote to whoever Ranmaru wants. So, yes, I'll work with town but don't expect effort. Also keep in mind I can't be nightkill by mafia.


Uhh... If I give a vote to someone and they lynch someone 3 times, I win.

Or I can survive.
I support this, as Ranmaru is one of my town reads. Amrock, I’m really sorry that you probably won’t survive the day, because at least you’re posting and making an effort to have whatever fun you can in a bad situation.

Evil George Washington wrote:If you had school, did you say that in D1 that you were busy because of school? Just wondering.
He’s 13 years old. I don’t think he explicitly stated it in this game, but he did in his previous game.

#HBC | Zyth wrote:@bessie, regarding being irritated with plytho and Boom for the supposed fishing.

Your explanation doesn't make sense to me, because Whale had flat out claimed that he could do something at that point. I get your irritation with Boom. He was directly trying to pull information out of Whale. plytho, however, was making an observation about you. It had nothing to do with PW's claim directly. It had to do with the discrepancy in your play. If you suspected that plytho was trying to somehow indirectly provoke PW, you could've simply addressed plytho's concerns while at the same time telling PW not to say anything more.
Yes, my problem with plytho is that I felt he was looking at me as the possible recipient of a result or inventor gift or something, and thus a possible (and better) night kill target. Read my above response to plytho regarding this and ask me if you want any further explanation.

User avatar
Sabrar
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:29 pm UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Sabrar » Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:49 am UTC

Evil George Washington wrote:I think you have me confused with Zen.
Zen claims to have sent you the request N1.

User avatar
Evil George Washington
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 2:04 am UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Evil George Washington » Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:52 am UTC

When did he say this? :?:

User avatar
Madge
Posts: 66
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 3:45 am UTC
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Madge » Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:52 am UTC

Answering questions!

@Madge: Why don’t you consider these kinds of indies to be dangerous: Like I've said before, around here people tend to be nice to weird indies, and I've been a benefactor of that a few times. I no longer believe that applies to this game.

You don't find anyone scummy?: Not in and of themselves, no. There's so much going on I'm having a hard time keeping up with the thread, let alone thinking critically about everything everyone is posting. I'll become more useful in that regard as time goes on. I'm only able to get the big picture at the moment, so I see two Very Logical Posters having a huge spat but can't form enough of an opinion because to catch up with all the posts I have to keep scrolling so at least I have some idea of what's happened.

Like, this whole Zyth vs Laserguy thing: I have no idea where I stand. I feel there's not enough information, and I generally think things like this are townie vs townie so it's better to do a "buffet style" and like/dislike different parts of arguments - but I'm not even sure what everyone's arguing about. Like, Zyth and the moody wagon, right? Zyth is justifying their actions, LaserGuy attacking thosej ustifications, but I'm like- I don't thik it's an important distinction. Scum could be on or off the wagon just as easily as town. I'm not sure there's useful information to be had there. So I guess if I had to conclude something from that, it'd be LG is being scummy by taking up a lot of time and energy in the thread: but I don't think that's a useful conclusion because town!LG is probably expecting to or even is able to get good information from Zyth's behavior in that regard, so although I don't personally get anything from that debate, LG does, and that's justification enough. So it makes sense for the discussion to happen. And I guess that even though being on/off the wagon is in itself a null tell, zyth's logic in the justifications probably provides information. But I dunno.

Tree stump: If you want to lynch/vig me, and we have't got rid of the claimed bomb, PLEASE let me hammer the bomb and then lynch me that night if I somehow survive (I don't expect to but you never know what could be happening). I'll hammer 24 hours before day end to ensure I am not scum backing out. I think my power is not going to get activated ever and this is one tiny service I can provide town (except it probably won't be necessary with the judgement vote today)

I will place a judgement vote on amrock so I can potentially take the judgement backlash from exploding bomb (I will PM mod and make sure it doesn't tree-stumpify me).

Madge since you won't use your vote I want you to proxy your vote to mine. hahahano. i'll vote for myself if nothing else.

@bessie: I think my claim plus my meta is keeping me alive atm. I'm not enjoying the pace of this game (SO MUCH TO READ), so it's hard to stay motivated with all the walls of text happening.
I'm writing a supernatural romance novel, it updates the first weekend of every month. You can find it here.

User avatar
Evil George Washington
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 2:04 am UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Evil George Washington » Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:55 am UTC

Evil George Washington wrote:Actually you wouldn't be able to have effected me last night. Yes, I do want you to vote with me.

User avatar
Evil George Washington
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 2:04 am UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Evil George Washington » Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:56 am UTC

Madge wrote:hahahano. i'll vote for myself if nothing else.


Why won't you proxy your vote to me? Why would you rather do just nothing?

User avatar
Evil George Washington
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 2:04 am UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Evil George Washington » Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:57 am UTC

LaserGuy wrote:How do you intend to do this? Verifying this claim would essentially kill Madge.


Give out my demand. That's how. I have a concern with her stating she'll hammer then suddenly remembering her tree stump ability. That's why I want her to test it. I don't want her to skate by another day without even using her vote or contributing. What is your opinion of her suddenly coming up with that tree stump ability when she promised to hammer?

User avatar
Sabrar
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:29 pm UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Sabrar » Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:02 am UTC

Evil George Washington wrote:Actually you wouldn't be able to have effected me last night. Yes, I do want you to vote with me.
Right. I put that comment aside because it seemed such a weird thing to claim without any reason.

User avatar
#HBC | Zyth
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2014 5:11 pm UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby #HBC | Zyth » Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:06 am UTC

@bessie wasn't plytho just joking though when he said he was about to call you scum for not including it in your reads list? I was assuming that he was referencing something from a past game or something about your meta. I assumed it was common for you to voice displeasure with soft claims of something. Did I misinterpret that?

User avatar
bessie
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:27 am UTC
Location: California

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby bessie » Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:09 am UTC

Madge wrote:@bessie: I think my claim plus my meta is keeping me alive atm. I'm not enjoying the pace of this game (SO MUCH TO READ), so it's hard to stay motivated with all the walls of text happening.
Yes, but I’m wondering why LaserGuy thinks your claim is not helping keep you alive, because to be quite honest, your content has not been super duper ultra townie spectacular so far this game. He does have a meta townie read of you here, despite you feeling kind of scummy to him.

User avatar
Evil George Washington
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 2:04 am UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Evil George Washington » Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:12 am UTC

I don't see why we should help Madge when she won't even consider to help town.

User avatar
#HBC | Zyth
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2014 5:11 pm UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby #HBC | Zyth » Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:17 am UTC

Evil George Washington wrote:I don't see why we should help Madge when she won't even consider to help town.
You do understand that would cause her to lose her vote forever? She can tree stump anytime. There's no point in doing it sooner rather than later. It's better to keep her vote live in case we need it.

User avatar
bessie
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:27 am UTC
Location: California

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby bessie » Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:17 am UTC

#HBC | Zyth wrote:@bessie wasn't plytho just joking though when he said he was about to call you scum for not including it in your reads list? I was assuming that he was referencing something from a past game or something about your meta. I assumed it was common for you to voice displeasure with soft claims of something. Did I misinterpret that?
I don't think he was joking. I certainly didn't react as if it was a joke, and he made no effort to downplay the comment as a joke later, so I assume he was serious. It is common for me to voice displeasure with townies overclaiming, or claiming on D1 for no apparent reason whatsoever because they gain a bit of lynch immunity in doing so, and I think it goes against the spirit of the game. I am also in general against townies claiming just to avoid the lynch, but I understand why people don't want to be lynched.

User avatar
Evil George Washington
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 2:04 am UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Evil George Washington » Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:21 am UTC

#HBC | Zyth wrote:You do understand that would cause her to lose her vote forever? She can tree stump anytime. There's no point in doing it sooner rather than later. It's better to keep her vote live in case we need it.


Yes, but I'm talking about her refusing to even proxy. She wants to wait until the end of the day where it's possible she won't even vote [because of tree stump]. I want her to vote early, not late. Can you see my perspective with this?

User avatar
#HBC | Zyth
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2014 5:11 pm UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby #HBC | Zyth » Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:25 am UTC

Evil George Washington wrote:
#HBC | Zyth wrote:You do understand that would cause her to lose her vote forever? She can tree stump anytime. There's no point in doing it sooner rather than later. It's better to keep her vote live in case we need it.


Yes, but I'm talking about her refusing to even proxy. She wants to wait until the end of the day where it's possible she won't even vote [because of tree stump]. I want her to vote early, not late. Can you see my perspective with this?
I do there. I just don't get why you're wasting your time with indy. No one's going to lynch her at this point in the game, so what's the point of all this?

btw how come you haven't responded to the points I made against your Boom case and why did you randomly claim protection last night?


Return to “Mafia”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests