Crossover Mafia | Game!

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LaserGuy
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby LaserGuy » Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:54 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote:It is plytho. He's spending a lot of time responding to mechanical questions and throwing out accusations but he's not pushing anything. He's just mud slinging and hoping something sticks.

@Zyth: take another look at plytho. He generates a lot of content but it's not actual helping. Don't let him get townie points only for quantity.


@BoomFrog: Do you want to push plytho today? If Zyth and Gamma join us I think we should be able to get the numbers for it.

#HBC | Zyth wrote:Need to reevaluate plytho too.


Quoting Zyth so he'll see this. Please take a look at plytho.

Gamma Emerald wrote:Vote FrozenFlame
I feel after Zyth's case for himself being town this is probably scum, because it pointed out FF's post trying to mobilize votes towards me in a weird way.


@Gamma: Are you willing to move your vote to plytho? We don't have the votes for Frozen today.

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Gamma Emerald
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Gamma Emerald » Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:39 am UTC

#HBC | YOLOSWAG wrote:Deadline is Monday, September 25th at 11:59:59 PM EST! With 18 alive, it takes 10 to lynch! https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/j ... t=sanserif

Votals 2.3
Zyth (1): Sabrar
mpolo (1): Frozenflame
Znirk (1): #HBC | Zyth
EGW (1): Madge
BoomFrog (2): Red Ryu, EGW
Gamma Emerald (1): plytho
Frozenflame (2): Gamma Emerald, LaserGuy
plytho (1): Bessie
Not Voting (8): Spak, heuristically_alone, BoomFrog, Peaceful Whale, Znirk, jimbobmacdoodle, mpolo, Amrock

Judgement Votals
Amrock (8): LaserGuy, Zyth, plytho, EGW, Frozenflame, Sabrar, mpolo, BoomFrog
Laserguy (0)

Not Judgement Voting (10): Red Ryu, Gamma Emerald, Spak, heuristically_alone, Peaceful Whale, Bessie, Znirk, jimbobmacdoodle, Madge, Amrock

Heury and Znirk have been prodded. If any of y'all know anyone who's interested in replacing (I only have one replacement at the moment), please let me know.

You're joking right
mobilize some votes and then maybe.

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Peaceful Whale
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Peaceful Whale » Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:50 am UTC

Hmm... I think the boomfrog “wagon” is kinda interesting, I’d really like to know what alignment boomfrog is, I’d say one of them is bussing him if they’re scum, and one is still probably scum if boomfrog is town... let’s wait and see.

I’m watching the plytho wagon and seeing how this unfolds, it feels like something scum could jump on easily, unlesss of course plytho is scum...
My meta for future reference
Spoiler:
cemper93 wrote:Your meta appears to be "just writes whatever is on his mind and doesn't remember what happened more than five hours ago"

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Evil George Washington
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Evil George Washington » Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:01 am UTC

Peaceful Whale wrote:Hmm... I think the boomfrog “wagon” is kinda interesting, I’d really like to know what alignment boomfrog is, I’d say one of them is bussing him if they’re scum, and one is still probably scum if boomfrog is town... let’s wait and see.


I want you to state who you think that is for both cases, and why.

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LaserGuy
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby LaserGuy » Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:06 am UTC

@PW: plytho is scum. Read bessie.

Vote plytho

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Evil George Washington
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Evil George Washington » Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:15 am UTC

Why did you tell PW that Plytho is scum, Laser?

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Evil George Washington
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Evil George Washington » Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:42 am UTC

I'm going to clock out now. I'll be home in an hour or so.

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#HBC | Red Ryu
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby #HBC | Red Ryu » Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:08 am UTC

Let's pick up where I left off.

Laserguy I can see him having different style but a meta reason doesn't really relate to this game in particular. Why should that clear or make him less likely to be scum? However you think his D1 is bad but also kind of find it relatable? Is it the same are Madge with a hard to step into the game sort of thing? I don't think so, it looks more deliberate.

Really not liking Gamma Content as of this page nor of late a lot more, not really clear and very very ill defined with opportunistic stuff later.

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#HBC | Red Ryu
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby #HBC | Red Ryu » Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:09 am UTC

Gamma Emerald wrote:Vote FrozenFlame
I feel after Zyth's case for himself being town this is probably scum, because it pointed out FF's post trying to mobilize votes towards me in a weird way.


Ewwww...not a fan of this vote.

Really looks very OMGUS with nothing to really back it up outside of that.

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#HBC | Red Ryu
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby #HBC | Red Ryu » Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:11 am UTC

Do people still have a problem with Jimbob?

Why are people voting FF at all? This literally came out of no where, nor do I even understand reasoning for it.

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#HBC | Red Ryu
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby #HBC | Red Ryu » Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:13 am UTC

Madge wrote:
#HBC | Red Ryu wrote:I do not think you understand how order of actions work.

You hammer and your hammer is first, you cannot treestump in the middle of it unless the mod lets you. If you stump and try to hammer then you lose your vote and can't hammer.

At least that is how as a mod I would go about it, whichever actions goes first is the one to resolve and then I check the next actions to see what would be next.

I do appreciate the idea but I do not think it would work like this. If you can stump, sure but be aware of where and when you will.


Sorry, I wasn't clear: I just meant that I would hammer and in the process of doing so, I would be a tree stump, and when I try to vote _the next day_, my vote won't be counted, thus proving I wasn't lying about the tree stump thing.

Nothing else to say rn, hopefully my workday today won't be hectic (it might be though) and I can keep an eye on the thread.


That wouldn't work, whatever action you do first would go first.

You could try stumping to make the vote requirements go down if it works that way and whomever voted last would be the hammerer, but idk how the mods would handle a stump like that.

Either way don't think this would work.

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#HBC | Red Ryu
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby #HBC | Red Ryu » Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:16 am UTC

BoomFrog wrote:
#HBC | Red Ryu wrote:Let's chat about this stuff.

1) Need to refresh on this, why was PW more of a focal point and scummy at the time and seemed for you to be more of a priority? If you had questions to Sabrar wouldn't pressure there with questions be better?
2) right but the issue here is the fact you seem to be calling people scummy but then placing your vote somewhere else. In this situation, what in particular would make whale more of a priority if you think FF was worth looking into?
3) no issues here.
4) none here.
5) Right but this is where one of my main problems with your slot is overall.

1 and 2) PW is a noob. FF and Sabrar are vetrans. I'm not going get anything out of them with a day start random vote but PW might actual feel the pressure. I put my vote where it's useful to put it to generate good content. Then at the end if the day I put it on scum.
5) It's all about the wagon-omics. The Moody lynch was too easy. Way too many people were on bored way to easily. But then Moody just gave up and started being blatantly scummy. I think by the time I voted he was already being bussed. Hopefully I'll have time to actually analyse the wagon this day phase, although I was expecting more flips to work with.

@jimbob I forgot to say last post: I agree, reading you and Moody as buddies was lazy. You were both scummy but there's no way we ended up with two scum buddies as the lunch candidates D1 in a 20 man game. I was just looking at you two individually, be not actually considering the ramifications of you both being scum.


Hmm? So in this case you were trying to bait him as a newbie to panic and fall under where as other votes would go nowhere even though you had votes and issues in those directions?

Would it seem likely to get help or even an idea with how content would work given going those other directions? Or do you find it would be unlikely to even happen in those directions that much? I think you still could have generated something going in the other directions. Why would you think this would not happen?

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#HBC | Red Ryu
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby #HBC | Red Ryu » Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:21 am UTC

None of the town slips are conclusive in my eyes, what makes them real townslips and not just checking either a scum chat or the thread before posting?

The one about mafia being able to talk during the day I can sort of see a bit more than Gamma being "ignorant" of the flip but still.

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#HBC | Red Ryu
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby #HBC | Red Ryu » Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:24 am UTC

LaserGuy wrote:FrozenFlame: Reviewing his content at Zyth's request has really degraded my opinion of the slot. Frozen is very skilled at making giant walls that have little productive content. In terms of actual reads or scum hunting, he is seriously deficient... His push on jimbob was very lazy and he never really comments on the moody wagon at all. Still hasn't posted reads on half of the field and the reads he has are extremely dated. Very active lurky vibes. Happy to park my vote here for now.


That's...not really true at all.

How is his content Fluff?

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LaserGuy
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby LaserGuy » Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:24 am UTC

Evil George Washington wrote:Why did you tell PW that Plytho is scum, Laser?


PW is town. I'd like to make sure he's voting for scum. If heury and Znirk don't come back by end of day we're going to be two votes short and need everyone on board.

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#HBC | Red Ryu
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby #HBC | Red Ryu » Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:26 am UTC

LaserGuy wrote:Scummy:
jimbob
Spak
Red Ryu
plytho
FrozenFlame


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jnZMW8C6wA

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#HBC | Red Ryu
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby #HBC | Red Ryu » Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:29 am UTC

LaserGuy wrote:
FrozenFlame wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:Quick thoughts on a few people...

FrozenFlame: Reviewing his content at Zyth's request has really degraded my opinion of the slot. Frozen is very skilled at making giant walls that have little productive content. In terms of actual reads or scum hunting, he is seriously deficient... His push on jimbob was very lazy and he never really comments on the moody wagon at all. Still hasn't posted reads on half of the field and the reads he has are extremely dated. Very active lurky vibes. Happy to park my vote here for now.


I'm really, really surprised that XKCD players, especially people that were in Dark Tower with me, are still saying I'm scummy for having a loquacious posting style. Yes, I dress up a lot of what I have to say with some fluffy flavor and tone. Yes I am verbose. Yes I could be more concise and direct. But I do all this shit naturally, its just my playstyle. I was town in Dark Tower and I got literally this exact same criticism from folks in that game. That should be a clear indicator that my tendency to allegedly "write giant walls with very little productive content" is clearly non-alignment indicative. I disagree with the charge btw, but if that's how people see my content then they, well atleast the XKCDers and SWF people who have played with me before, should know that I have a tendency to use far too many words to say anything. Huge red flag seeing LaserGuy come after me for this, and I'd point a similar FoS toward anyone whos played with me before who is sympathetic to the argument considering I've had this posting style universally and it features just as prominently when I'm town as scum. Especially in the early game when I'm only really responding to what sticks out to me as opposed to every line in this deluge of content.


I skimmed through D1 of Dark Tower and read your iso and I don't see people having particular concerns about your posting style. Certainly I'm not one to point fingers at people for posting walls. My point is not that you write a lot of words, but that you write a lot of words that say very little as far as your opinions about the game are concerned. Just for comparison, take a look at your D1 reads from Dark Tower. These are giant walls, for sure, but they're giant walls of great content looking at every player in considerable detail. Your later posts are engaging a variety of players, analyzing everything. Your posts this game aren't anything like this. We're halfway through D2 and I still have no idea what you feel about virtually any player in the game and why you feel that way. How would you expect me to read that? Even here, your response is purely defensive. You aren't hunting for scum; you're just lazily OMGUSing me for having legitimate problems with your lack of productive content.


...hmmm?

hmmm.......

Let me delve on this one a bit and read that DT thread.

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#HBC | Zyth
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby #HBC | Zyth » Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:29 am UTC

Wow it's only been two days since my last post? I didn't realize the deadline wasn't until Monday lmao. Not a fan of these long days/nights.

Just popping in to say that I like where jim was going wrt Judgement.

I think everyone but Laser should Unvote Judgement. Then we should choose a player to be the second (and thus hammer) vote. This is so much better than the original have-scum-hammer plan, because we don't have to spend the time or resources getting GLadOS or the decided hammerer to L-1. Since we still have our normal votes, we can easily lynch a player that refuses to be the Jhammerer. Also Madge should actually vote between Laser and the Jhammerer to act as a buffer in case the Jhammerer unvotes at the last second. I don't think that will be the case, since we can control when the day ends (assuming we don't wait until the last moment), but it will be good to have just in case.

To reiterate:

1. Everyone but Laser unvote Judgement.
2. Madge places her Judgement vote.
3. We decide on a hammerer for Judgement.


I think we should keep a tally of PseudoVotes to decide. Use PseudoVote to vote for a Judgement hammerer and we will keep a separate vote tally. Actually just use "Pseudo: Playername" to make marshy's ctrl + f life easier.

I also think that in order make sure we have enough flexibility to change the hammerer and enough time to discuss the pseudowagons, we should use a lower minimum required votes (MRV) than majority to decide who the hammerer is. I think its safe to assume there are at least 3 mafia members left (or at least a max of 3 that can currently coordinate with each other privately). To keep this from being skewed in their favor, the MRV should be double that.

When a player receives 6 PseudoVotes, that players should Judgement Vote Amrock immediately. If the PseudoVotes fall below 6 (due to players changing their PseudoVote or PseudoUnvoting), that player can Unvote Judgement. If another player surpasses the current hammerer in PseudoVotes (7 or more), that player takes their place as Judgment hammerer.


Judgement Vote: Unvote

Pseudo: Spak

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#HBC | Red Ryu
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby #HBC | Red Ryu » Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:30 am UTC

Gamma Emerald wrote:LOL sorry Amrock but apparently the mod told you NOTHING. That's RAW. When I replaced into FWiaB Boonskiies told me what Geralt of Rivia claimed. So maybe I have different expectations but I still feel you got a raw deal.


Do you have a read list like EGW asked for earlier?

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby #HBC | Red Ryu » Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:33 am UTC

Gonna read that DT thread before I go to bed and maybe post about it soonish.

Latter laser post might have some merit, maybe still disagree from what I have read thus far with FF, I don't find his content to be fluff like Gamma who really isn't doing jack nor explaining himself.

I want Frog to answer me on my questions.

Where did Spak go?

Vote: Gamma

Reads:
100 confirmed furry ruy townie: Red Ryu
Town: Evil George Washington, plytho, Frozenflame, Peaceful Whale, Laserguy
Townlean: Sabrar, Bessie,
null: jimbobmacdoodle, mpolo, Spak(needs to be more active or would be townlead)
scum lean: Madge(reread content not a fan), #HBC | Zyth,
scum: Gamma Emerald(inactive and dislike content that was posted end of d1 and d2), BoomFrog, Znirk(inactive can die), heuristically_alone(inactive can die),
Gonna die to judgement: Amrock

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#HBC | Zyth
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby #HBC | Zyth » Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:35 am UTC

(btw I said before that I was willing to put Spak/Ruy aside. That has since changed. I thought since they were hard town reading each other for no reason that they could potentially be Masons. Since Spak has been demoted on Ruy's recent read list (and even more so on that Ninja reads list), I no longer have reason to think so)

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Evil George Washington
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Evil George Washington » Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:14 am UTC

I'm home. I'll be reading and constructing my readslist. (I almost said playlist :lol: )

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Gamma Emerald
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Gamma Emerald » Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:15 am UTC

#HBC | Red Ryu wrote:
Gamma Emerald wrote:LOL sorry Amrock but apparently the mod told you NOTHING. That's RAW. When I replaced into FWiaB Boonskiies told me what Geralt of Rivia claimed. So maybe I have different expectations but I still feel you got a raw deal.


Do you have a read list like EGW asked for earlier?

I already said that wasn't likely. Also you seem to not be addressing my point for Znirk being town AT ALL. I've got my eyes on you, pal.

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Evil George Washington
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Evil George Washington » Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:18 am UTC

Gamma, I told you to quote it.

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Gamma Emerald
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Gamma Emerald » Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:32 am UTC

I went back and realized the "slip" I saw isn't really one under a closer look. It just means he may not have factored in a BF/PW mafia partnership. I was in a rush to read what I missed and didn't think to actually read context.

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#HBC | Zyth
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby #HBC | Zyth » Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:41 am UTC

Gamma Emerald wrote:I went back and realized the "slip" I saw isn't really one under a closer look. It just means he may not have factored in a BF/PW mafia partnership. I was in a rush to read what I missed and didn't think to actually read context.
How does this affect your read?

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bessie
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby bessie » Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:50 am UTC

Skimming so not very thorough, starting on p 32. I had a long day at work.

plytho wrote:Here's some more bessie stuff:
Yea! Me me me! :)

plytho wrote: She seems to think simply saying I’m scum will make it so.
Not true! I don’t need to say “plytho is scum” for you to be scum. You can be scum without my endorsement!

plytho wrote:Btw, she also ignored this point when Sabrar mentioned it, choosing to respond to a minor point in Sabrar's post. I was expecting this misunderstanding would be cleared up by talking about it and Sabrar clearly got to the core of it but bessie seems to actively avoid it.
Yes, interesting how I selectively chose to respond to Sabrar here. Also interesting how when Sabrar questioned me about it again in the following post, I did not further engage him on the topic in my post immediately following his. One might even suspect that I posted some fluff as a way of deliberately avoiding further discussion of Peaceful Whale’s role.

So plytho why will you not let this drop? Why does every post you make about me go back to this discussion of Peaceful Whale’s role?

plytho wrote:This is the only response to my post that I can live with:
bessie wrote:
plytho wrote:So you’re confident that there are two scum teams? Does the jimbob-plytho connection make you confident about the two scum teams, or is it something else?
Where did the “confident” come from?
I was thinking this was a parallel situation to Gamma being suspicious of Sabrar, EGW and me for swinging the vote to moody but I realise it’s not. I’d still like to see bessie explain how I could be a buddy of moody.
Show me anywhere in this entire thread where I said you were on a scum team with moody. I said that at the end of D1 my pick as scum buddies were plytho and jimbobmacdoodle. These were my picks even before moody was lynched, see this post, and therefore this read is independent of moody’s flip. I haven’t given any other speculation today on the setup, or on possible scum partners of moody. But it is quite interesting what you are reading in to my comments.

Sabrar wrote: Meanwhile half the team is on vacation at work, the new boss wants to overhaul all of our current processes and audit is breathing down our necks.
You just described my entire month (and seeing the words process and audit in the same sentence usually gives me a panic attack :shock: ).

Sabrar wrote: Rest of Madge
Nice job, even if it’s not about me me me. :|

Amrock wrote:Eh, lol. I can't do anything right :(

Welp, that was my last ditch attempt. See you on the other side XD
I like you Amrock. I hope you’ll give this site a second try and sign up for another game sometime.

I’m also interested in seeing BoomFrog’s response to Red Ryu’s questions in this post.

I have an early meeting tomorrow. I’ll be working on my updated reads tomorrow night and Saturday.

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BoomFrog
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby BoomFrog » Fri Sep 22, 2017 7:03 am UTC

Yay, I'm up an hour part my bedtime but I'm caught up for a brief moment before leaving for the weekend. I've still got things to reply to but getting my reads list out there is more important.

@Red: I'm not sure how to explain things more clearly. Poking FF or Sabrar wouldn't get me anywhere. There is such a metric fuckton of content, I had other priorities for my limited RL time and attention.

@EGW: You are misunderstanding me about the PW thing. If I had more time I think I could get you to understand but I don't. Take it or leave it.

Mpolo read was not that he was definitely Indy, just that he was indy or town. It just seemed like something he wouldn't do as scum.

My vote on Moody wasn't lazy, it was calculated. I wanted to get Bessie's read on Moody before I justified mine so I could use that chance to judge her.

Alright, quick reads list:

Town:
BoomFrog
Madge
EGW
Zyth - There are two possibilities: The Cojones Museum has requested Zen donate her amazing collection in the event of her death or Zen is town. I know most people are bad at reading the "wagon-omics" but Zen was sincerely only trying to tempt scum with a bad counter wagon, she want trying to stop the Moody lynch.
Gamma - I trust the " town slip".
Peaceful Whale
jimbob - such sincere content. Glad I reserved judgement D1.
bessie - sincere Bessie content, I think it'd be very hard for her to fake this.
mpolo - early town points haven't expired, and nothing stuck out from his recent content. I probably will need to reread him D3.
Znirk (traveling and semi-offline the last week of September) so I have hope he will return. Slight town lean from early content. Lack of recent content I assume is RL plus overwhelmed. So in total slightly townie but I hope he returns soon.
Sabrar - I don't like his read of me but I do like his early push on Moody. Candidate for second scum team. I'd like to see an updated reads list. (Unless I missed a recent one?) I've agreed with almost all of his other reads though.
Red Ryu - In have trouble understanding what he is saying but I'm trying not to hold that against him. I have no idea, but by PoE I'm leaning scum.
LaserGuy and plytho - They both are going after all the wrong people for all the wonderful reasons. But LaserGuy is also willing to go for plytho. Either one is town and one scum or both scum but different teams. If I had to pick now I'd say LaserGuy is scum plytho is town. But I'd need to reread before lynching either of them.
FrozenFlame - weak scum hunting. There only reason I don't want to lynch him I'd that LaserGuy does want to.
Spak - felt okay but disappearing and fixating on a bad read are bad signs.
Scum

Indie:
Amrock

To be replaced
heury - abandoned the game. But probably town from his original content. Leaving the game without warning is a null tell.

Unvote judgement

Vote Spak


Pseudo: Spak
"Everything I need to know about parenting I learned from cooking. Don't be afraid to experiment, and eat your mistakes." - Cronos

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LaserGuy
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby LaserGuy » Fri Sep 22, 2017 7:10 am UTC

Evil George Washington wrote:Gamma, I told you to quote it.


Dunnno why he's so coy about it. This is the post. Here's the relevant quote:
Znirk wrote:That makes sense to me; but do we know whether Mafia has daychat? (Doesn't seem to be explicit in the rules) They did in that last game, and it might be what's making the difference in scum!whale if this time he can't be held back by scummates during the day.
Still, I suggest not lynching the newbie for being new. Putting Whale a hair townward of neutral for now, because as per my impression, this time he's more confused himself than out to confuse others.

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BoomFrog
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby BoomFrog » Fri Sep 22, 2017 7:11 am UTC

@Zyth, if madge is the backup then her vote might not count, and there would be a tie. We should just have the top two psedo votees judgement vote. However, I don't think you're going to get this plan to actually work. People aren't into it. Just let madge then LaserGuy be there top two judgements. Whoever is getting actually lynched can pile their vote on top. The two resolve simultaneously so maybe there lynchee can take the bomb.

Sleepy time.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby #HBC | Zyth » Fri Sep 22, 2017 7:29 am UTC

BoomFrog wrote:@Zyth, if madge is the backup then her vote might not count, and there would be a tie. We should just have the top two psedo votees judgement vote. However, I don't think you're going to get this plan to actually work. People aren't into it. Just let madge then LaserGuy be there top two judgements. Whoever is getting actually lynched can pile their vote on top. The two resolve simultaneously so maybe there lynchee can take the bomb.

Sleepy time.

No, how I outlined is best. Top two complicates things. This is simple and effective. The only scenario that Madge's power doesn't take affect is the scenario in which she is lying about her ability. Regardless, it likely wont come to that because we control when the day ends via the regular lynch.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby plytho » Fri Sep 22, 2017 7:42 am UTC

bessie wrote:
plytho wrote:Btw, she also ignored this point when Sabrar mentioned it, choosing to respond to a minor point in Sabrar's post. I was expecting this misunderstanding would be cleared up by talking about it and Sabrar clearly got to the core of it but bessie seems to actively avoid it.
Yes, interesting how I selectively chose to respond to Sabrar here. Also interesting how when Sabrar questioned me about it again in the following post, I did not further engage him on the topic in my post immediately following his. One might even suspect that I posted some fluff as a way of deliberately avoiding further discussion of Peaceful Whale’s role.
Yeah, I get it, you don't want to talk about Peaceful Whale's role, neither do I.
bessie wrote:So plytho why will you not let this drop? Why does every post you make about me go back to this discussion of Peaceful Whale’s role?
I don't want to talk about Peaceful Whale's role. I want to talk about this, and only this:
plytho wrote:Re: Peaceful Whale’s soft claim and my response vs bessies
bessie wrote:As I am not the brightest or most clever player in this game, I’m sure that anything I noticed would also be noticed by everyone else.
I disagree with this on principle. I think, especially in a game as large as this one (but also in general), that it’s very easy for this kind of public information to get lost to some townies.
Some numbers for clarity: (assuming 5 scum and 15 townies for easy maths)
If 1 in 5 people notice A, all scum will know A and around 12 townies will miss it.
If 3 in 5 people notice B, all scum will know B and around 6 townies will miss it.
If 9 in 10 people notice C, all scum will know C and 1 or 2 townies might miss it.

So making sure this information is known by everyone is the townie thing to do in. That’s what I was getting at.
This point is all I wanted to make. It is a general case where we seem to have a different view on townie way to respond to public information that may be missed by other players. This is what I want to talk about. And I won't drop this until you acknowledge my view and we end up either in agreement about how to best handle this or we agree to have different, valid views on this kind of situation. The nature of Peaceful Whale's role is entirely irrelevant to this discussion.

I don't want to drop this because I feel very strongly that this is a townie thing to do and I will keep doing it in future games. I want to talk this out so you know where I'm coming from next time I do something like this.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Sabrar » Fri Sep 22, 2017 7:51 am UTC

Context

#HBC | Zyth wrote:Not a meta read (see response to Laser). Is definitely lazy though. Delving into ovbtown reads is dumb and a waste of time.
...
Dumb and a waste of time. Maven was obvtown.
Game would really boring if we all shared the same view about what's townie or not. Madge is obvtown to me but I take the time to explain why so that others don't lynch/treestump her.

#HBC | Zyth wrote:i. Doubt she missed it.
ii. Meta has nothing to do with logic. She conveys in this very line that she is aware that the game is by a host from another site with a different perspective on indies. So its irrational to use xkcd meta.
iii. I said it's the first time she has shown an investment in anything other than her role. Not interest. She clearly had an investment in promoting indies as being good here.
iv. Disagree if you want, but the points ii and iii are solid. It's funny though looking back on it, because moody's lynch just proves me right about this point.
i. I disagree but it seems we won't be able to advance on this any further.
ii. Yes she acknowledges it, however xkcd meta is what she knows so her first reaction is based on that.
iii. Ok I understand your point but you're once again interpreting it in the way you want without considering the possibility that you might be wrong. Here is an issue where she has an opinion of her own and can contribute something D1 so she comments on that. That does not automatically mean that she has a hidden agenda or an investment.
iv. If moody's lynch proves you right then why did you not address my point about you using 'mostly' twice in your read regarding me?

#HBC | Zyth wrote:This goes against what you're arguing above. Apparently you feel that Madge has the exact opposite perspective on indies.
No, I'm fully aware of her stance regarding indies.

#HBC | Zyth wrote:7DS were all one liners. This game clearly isn't. I was being genuine when I said I don't feel like I should be taking your points
seriously. And stuff like this is why.
This is fair, I made my comment in haste.

#HBC | Zyth wrote:Thank you for being so elaborate. There wasn't enough data for Ryu to have had a town read on me. His read was likely made up.
Refer to above about people having different ideas about what's townie. You had plenty of content.

#HBC | Zyth wrote:Thank you for showing how the view is wrong and listing the other possibilities.
Wasn't aware that it was my responsibility. Simplest explanation is lack of time.

#HBC | Zyth wrote:I have a feel like Sabrar knows that my points on indyMadge are legit, but he's trying to stay on her good side in case she has
something that can affect him.
Yeah no. Even in the hypothetical scenario where Madge is indie she was being entirely truthful about not having any abilities currently.

#HBC | Zyth wrote:I can't believe I forgot to say this. My "confident he'll be readable tomorrow" was me crumbing. I thought it was likely he would be one of the names you chose.
I can see the crumb. I can also see several reasons why it might be weak but you have a point there.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Sabrar » Fri Sep 22, 2017 7:54 am UTC

plytho wrote:And I won't drop this until you acknowledge my view and we end up either in agreement about how to best handle this or we agree to have different, valid views on this kind of situation.
...
I don't want to drop this because I feel very strongly that this is a townie thing to do and I will keep doing it in future games.
Note to self for the re-read: this is Fridge!plytho all over again.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby plytho » Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:19 am UTC

It so is :D
I was as honest about that point as I am about this one.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby #HBC | Zyth » Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:21 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:Context
Game would really boring if we all shared the same view about what's townie or not. Madge is obvtown to me but I take the time to explain why so that others don't lynch/treestump her.
A players isn't obvtown if they aren't obvtown to everyone (or most). No one had EGW or Maven as scum, and I'd simply be repeating the things many others had said.
Sabrar wrote:iv. If moody's lynch proves you right then why did you not address my point about you using 'mostly' twice in your read regarding me?
It's not about the literal use of the word, but how it's used. It's how Madge used it here to bridge two conflicting notions. She knew that they were conflicting (thus making the point illogical), yet she decided to post it anyway.
Sabrar wrote:Refer to above about people having different ideas about what's townie. You had plenty of content.
Ryu knows me enough to not read me based on the content I had at that point. If it's not fake, it was lazy. I am starting to come around to that being the case.
Sabrar wrote:Wasn't aware that it was my responsibility. Simplest explanation is lack of time.
I don't think it's from lack of time. I'll be making a post soon on why I think so.
#HBC | Zyth wrote:Yeah no. Even in the hypothetical scenario where Madge is indie she was being entirely truthful about not having any abilities currently,
I have a feel like Sabrar knows that my points on indyMadge are legit, but he's trying to stay on her good side in case she has something that can affect him. compartmentalizing the contradiction with his meta.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby LaserGuy » Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:27 am UTC

#HBC | Zyth wrote:Wow it's only been two days since my last post? I didn't realize the deadline wasn't until Monday lmao. Not a fan of these long days/nights.


Sorry I don't have the promised reply to your earlier content. Hopefully it will suffice to say that, much to my surprise, you've convinced me that you're probably Town. So, uh, sorry about trying to judgment you earlier :)

I'm happy to go with whatever judgment plan you guys want, though I think it probably makes sense for me to cover Madge rather than the other way around. If Judgment itself is considered the killing action, having Madge taking the hammer could, at worst, end up with a situation where she is stumped and I am dead. I don't think this is particularly likely--it should be one or the other, but it isn't worth risking two townie slots on Amrock, and Madge is townier than I am so it makes more sense for me to take the risk.

Arguing with Sabrar probably isn't going to get you anywhere, btw. You'll just have to work around each other. I'll have the same problem with BoomFrog, I imagine.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby LaserGuy » Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:28 am UTC

EBWOP:
Pseudo Vote: plytho

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Gamma Emerald » Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:57 am UTC

#HBC | Zyth wrote:
Gamma Emerald wrote:I went back and realized the "slip" I saw isn't really one under a closer look. It just means he may not have factored in a BF/PW mafia partnership. I was in a rush to read what I missed and didn't think to actually read context.
How does this affect your read?

Bumps it down a bit. I think I also townread his unsubstantiated reads he gave early day 1 but I opted to try to explain why he was town using what I considered to be more solid logic.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby mpolo » Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:00 am UTC

I think we're overcomplicating on the whole Judgment thing. I don't think it's necessary to have everyone unvote, just make sure that whoever we want to "hammer" unvotes and re-votes. Otherwise, we get the thing down to a couple of votes, and a scum team could use the situation to (1) judge a townie (assuming LaserGuy is town for the argument) (2) Tree-stump another townie (assuming Madge is town for the argument) and then get their night-kill in, making a trifecta of fail for town. I don't want to make something like that easy.

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