Crossover Mafia | Game!

For your simulated organized crime needs.

Moderators: jestingrabbit, Moderators General, Prelates

User avatar
Evil George Washington
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 2:04 am UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Evil George Washington » Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:02 pm UTC

EGW: Has moved down since my previous list after posting his reads. There's very little for me to like here at all. He finds Spak and FrozenFlame nulls despite their general lack of scumhunting or even reads. He was pushing BoomFrog for a very long time on a case that doesn't jive at all with my impressions. Asks why I didn't respond to his pushes on BoomFrog and Znirk, but 1) I did reply about BoomFrog, he just didn't read the post, apparently, and 2) he didn't push Znirk at all, he just put down a naked vote with no explanation. I already explained in my reasoning Znirk being town in my opening post and have speculated that the lack of interaction with the slot also points to town. The fact that his lynch pool is, IMHO, all townies don't not give me great feelings about the slot. Too many conclusions are wrong, too many scummy players are being given a pass. Moving to scum lean.


I find Spak and Frozen null because I have a hard time reading FrozenFlame usually (It's true when I say that if he is scum, he'll be vulnerable to POE), and with Spak, I don't see anything pop out to me yet he was after Peaceful Whale and I am fine switching the two for my bottom four. Your reasoning for switching of Zen is weak, and so is your Znirk reasoning. Underlined, you never really engaged with me, but it's fair that you did talk about Boom (I missed it). Your reasoning on me boils down to disagreement, not intent or motivation.

LaserGuy wrote:@Zyth: I'll try to have a big post going through your D2 content before you get back. That said, I am conflicted about how I feel about you, because even though I can find many things to fault in your play, my gut reaction is that I'm mistaken and you're Town. Hmm...<snip>


I don't think you have good reason to disagree with me on Zen, based on the underlined. You haven't really talked with me about my reads, so you should start doing that.

User avatar
FrozenFlame
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:26 am UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby FrozenFlame » Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:04 pm UTC

Gamma Emerald wrote:I saw you pushing his night action as scummy. Was that not the case?


I conflated LaserGuy's intent and rationale for targeting Zyth for judgement with mpolo's rationale for swapping Zyth and SirG as targets. My conflation made me think that mpolo had offered rationale that contradicted how he used his night action. But in reality I was just imputing LaserGuy's rationale for mpolos which of course made it seem contradictory because they were two totally different slots with different intents behind why they picked who they did. I confused my own train of thought and hastily posted an argument that was born out of that confusion. Beyond my very first post this phase, I haven't attacked or push mpolo at all. Again, the vote was just left on first to test validity of Amrock's claimed action re: giving my slot a double vote (later clarified it would only be a double vote if cast against PW) and then I was just lazy and didn't unvote until I had a chance to do some re-reading, hence why it's not swapped.

User avatar
FrozenFlame
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:26 am UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby FrozenFlame » Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:06 pm UTC

^ Hence why it's NOW* swapped

User avatar
Evil George Washington
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 2:04 am UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Evil George Washington » Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:07 pm UTC

Gamma, how does Frozen's play here compare to our game on Mafia Scum to you?

User avatar
Gamma Emerald
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2017 2:10 am UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Gamma Emerald » Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:12 pm UTC

I read a couple pages of EGW posts and it's fairly clear their pushes are well reasoned and as such do not seem to come from scum!him.
To EGW: As for Frozen I'm not sure as I don't quite recall exactly how he was then, wasn't he kinda lynchbaity?

User avatar
Gamma Emerald
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2017 2:10 am UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Gamma Emerald » Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:14 pm UTC

@FF: that makes some sense. I don't know how you did that but I can see how it would cause you to read it like that.

User avatar
Evil George Washington
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 2:04 am UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Evil George Washington » Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:24 pm UTC

I don't remember the lynch-baityness, can you refresh my memory? Now that you find his explanation satisfactory, how does that change your read on Frozen? What do you think of his Moody Interaction post?

User avatar
LaserGuy
Posts: 4576
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:33 pm UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby LaserGuy » Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:25 pm UTC

Ooo... look, there's a wall with my name on it.

FrozenFlame wrote:Lmao this is such a joke. It's absolutely laughable that you think its scummy to want to take out liability slots and clear out known anti-town slots in the early game when we're already off to a fantastic start with a scum lynch D1. We're ahead, why not do some housekeeping?


And during this housekeeping period, what do you recommend we do in the day phase? Should we take inspiration from your play and twiddle our thumbs trying to decide which lurker looks best? How do you intend to build this paper trail on scum of which you speak if you aren't producing reads? Or asking questions? Or responding to other people's content? For that matter, why shouldn't we be looking at your slot for a lurker lynch? You have less content than Gamma. Even if you are right and the strategically optimal play is a lurker lynch, that isn't an excuse for active lurking during the day.

I've been clearly communicating who I'm down to lynch all game, even if it isn't accompanied by a dissertation, just comes off as hella dense.


What do you think of the fact that EGW has you as null, finding your content utterly unremarkable? Do you think that will make you any less of a liability if the two of you reach the endgame? At what point were you planning on actually playing?

User avatar
Gamma Emerald
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2017 2:10 am UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Gamma Emerald » Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:27 pm UTC

Evil George Washington wrote:I don't remember the lynch-baityness, can you refresh my memory? Now that you find his explanation satisfactory, how does that change your read on Frozen? What do you think of his Moody Interaction post?

Weakens the scumread, probably makes him not my number 1, need to see where he goes to specifically though

User avatar
Gamma Emerald
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2017 2:10 am UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Gamma Emerald » Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:29 pm UTC

FF is now number 3
Vote: Red Ryu

User avatar
Gamma Emerald
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2017 2:10 am UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Gamma Emerald » Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:31 pm UTC

BTW Red Ryu probably should have been number 2 on my initial list. Comparing my reasonings my one for hi feels stronger than the one for plytho.

User avatar
LaserGuy
Posts: 4576
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:33 pm UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby LaserGuy » Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:34 pm UTC

Hmm, just realized I didn't include my read on l
Plytho. Will add that in when I can get back to a computer to review my notes properly.

User avatar
Evil George Washington
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 2:04 am UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Evil George Washington » Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:37 pm UTC

LaserGuy you seemed to have skipped the fact that as time progresses, FrozenFlame becomes readable. [I said he'd be POE'd if scum] This is true with his meta, and you'll see the same thing happen in our previous game together. I also like his Moody interaction post, especially his points on Zen. There is nothing wrong with pushing for Lurker's D2 especially if they also have suspicious content. (Like Znirk) You still need to talk to me about my reads.

User avatar
LaserGuy
Posts: 4576
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:33 pm UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby LaserGuy » Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:40 pm UTC

@EGW: I will have a look this evening.

User avatar
jimbobmacdoodle
Posts: 149
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:40 pm UTC
Location: NP 811/The Present

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:41 pm UTC

Zyth/Zen Day 2: I've done this part of the read in bits and pieces since my previous Zyth read. Apologies if it appears a bit scattered at points.

Not sure how to take Zyth's response to LaserGuy's case. My first thought on re-read was that it was buddying LaserGuy and cry "woe is me" in an attempt to curry further. As highlighted by others, he is being vague again about who his "someone else" is, which doesn't help anybody.

@Zyth - why are you being so vague about who you find to be scum? Is this someone else me, your previous certain scum read?

I can't fault his comments in the wagon-building reasoning. It's not the play-style I'm used to, but I can certainly see the benefits. On the bussing point, I can certainly believe that he holds these views, but he's missing out the fact that sometimes you have to bus once a lynch becomes basically a certainty, or you will be too obvious a scum-buddy following the flip - once this certainty has arrived, the outlined cons become irrelevant. On his reasoning why he isn't buddies with moody - 1) has already been refuted (he wasn't the first to bring moody up), although admittedly if EGW hadn't thought about him, there could be a point here; I gave my thoughts on the related comment regarding not bothering to attempt a read himself there. 2) Is an interesting point. I don't think it's outside the realms of possibility that GE, RR, Zyth, and moody are all on the same scum team, but it's not statistically very likely, if nothing else. He's wrong in saying that FF was the only person suspicious of me at the time (see, for example, bessie's read of me), so I could see a skilled scum player trying to build up a wagon on me to divert attention away from moody, instead of RR or GE, because those two would be too easy and obvious options. Not sure if that's a bit of a stretch though. 3) I'm inclined to buy his logic here, combined with the never bussing his scum buddy point. Doesn't mean he isn't scum though, just not buddies with moody. 4) I'm not seeing as a major point either way. I'm unclear why he was scared of a swing to GE? Conclusion from these is that Zyth makes a fair case why he isn't moody's buddy, although it's not rock-solid, especially if I'm right with my previous suspicions about GE being scum.

@Zyth - why were you scared of a late swing to Gamma Emerald? Why did you decide to wait until D2 to bring this up?

In responding to LaserGuy's case, he never answered the second half of this question: "Was/is your 99.83% read on jimbob? Why did you never reply to this when asked by plytho, George, Sabrar, etc.?" which I believe is the more pertinent part.The rest of the responses or okay - nothing strikes me either way about them. In responding to plytho he doesn't really respond to one of the core points (the late reads list).

@Zyth - what makes you so sure that Maven even used his vig shot? Is your scum read on Spak entirely because of his lack of vote on one of the wagons? If not what else is scummy about him?

Zyth's later notes and questions post is okay, but nothing particularly amazing stood out to me there. I do have one or two small issues with his responses to plytho and LaserGuy. For example, "As I've mentioned a couple of times, I think it's ridiculous for players to ask for clarification in the midst of something, as it just gives scum info on how to react" - and can confuse townies, causing them to go after the wrong player due to a misunderstanding. "Huh? Yes, of course. Why would someone prefer to lynch their buddy over a no lynch? That's simply a free night kill for scum." Ignoring the even greater chance of being labelled scum for causing a No Lynch. Mislynches do attract attention, yes, but No Lynches even more so. Obviously for scum, a no lynch is preferable, if they can achieve it without attracting attention, but otherwise it's a bad idea, even over lynching a team-mate, in my opinion. In this area, Zyth doesn't really seem to be thinking too seriously about the comment, in my opinion. I also disagree with this point: "No? Multiple people would've been responsible for the no lynch. It would've been the fault of both sides for not being able to reach consensus." Yes multiple people would've been responsible, but you were the one pushing for my lynch the most, I felt. On his points towards Sabrar, this one stood out to me, but I haven't dug up the context, so it might be a little unfair: "Thank you for being so elaborate. There wasn't enough data for Ryu to have had a town read on me. His read was likely made up." I'm assuming, given Zen's posting rate that he had posted several times by that point. A snap judgement is certainly possible, although a definitive read is less likely. If somebody wants to point me to the post in question, I will take a look further at this response.

I like his point about Madge tree-stumping, although it's another of those things that seems relatively obvious to me, and sensible for scum to say to try to gain town credit. I also like his comments about the reasons for EGW claiming protection, although if I'm honest, I don't understand why Zyth left it be (it was answered a few minutes later, but that was only after Zyth had given up).

@Zyth - why did you drop the above point?

@Zyth - you called Gamma a good liability lynch. Could you please clarify what you meant by this?

His claim that he crumbed being able to read moody tomorrow is very weak, in my opinion. His strategy for the judgement votes seems acceptable to me, although maybe overthought a little (why mess about with people unvoting currently). His next few posts are pretty null to me. I disagree with his point about plytho and being a deer caught in headlights. He hasn't felt that way to me as I've been following along. (Aside - I'm cautious of overusing meta on any player who has played scum for several games in a row, as is the case here with plytho, because people's play style evolves given time - it's similar to my earlier point about PW's play style potentially being his "normal play style" as opposed to his "scum play style").

Zyth's case on Spak is decent from a quick read through, even though I didn't get a scum read on Spak from my previous re-read of Spak. When I get a chance I'll go back over Spak's tail-end content to see how valid Zyth's points are. One thing that struck me is that some of Spak's quotes he highlighted as being "he's just praising a post or giving some objective reason as to why someone shouldn't read into something" actually do include subjective content (e.g. "Bessie may well have been doing this to try and make Zen look better, but I don't think Zen would request another player to come in and vote." and "Aside from that, I'm not sure what to think of your Bessie/Zen scumteam. Bessie was my fourth strongest town lean thus far this game and I still have Zen as a scumlean".

Conclusion: As noted in the first half of my read, Zyth's D1 content didn't look good to me. He made some good defensive points during the early stage of D2, that started to give me pause for thought on this. Overall, he's consistently being unhelpful by failing to answer questions, many of them which were intended to try to draw a read on Zyth himself (see for example my questions here - he sort of answered the second of the three, but neither the other two, from what I saw), and I can't help but shake the feeling that he's misrepresented some things deliberately (his moody bus claim, for example - a bus isn't really a bus when it's inevitable, so it's a different situation). At the same time, there's been quite a lot of good content in between the bad bits. EGW's read on Zen really brought me back to the belief that Zyth is scum. He could easily be a scum buddy.

*phew* done that. Now onto Gamma Emerald.
BlitzGirl the Primordial
matthewglen wrote:Cueball looks concerned.

Image

User avatar
jimbobmacdoodle
Posts: 149
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:40 pm UTC
Location: NP 811/The Present

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:44 pm UTC

I just looked at that post in all it's wallness, and I apologise for how ridiculously long it got. Sadly, I fully expect to have equally ridiculous posts for some of our other active players in the next day or two.
BlitzGirl the Primordial
matthewglen wrote:Cueball looks concerned.

Image

User avatar
Sabrar
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:29 pm UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Sabrar » Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:46 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:@Sabrar: Other than Zyth, who are your strongest scum reads at this point?
Nothing strong. plytho moved downwards a lot (in an anti-town indie sort of way), Zen's case on Spak looks actually good but I need to re-read in detail, and I don't remember anything that GE said that looked townie to me and his vote on FF looked weird/lazy.

User avatar
Evil George Washington
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 2:04 am UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Evil George Washington » Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:51 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:Red Ryu: He's here partly by process of elimination, partly because I don't care much for any of his reads, and his interactions with other players I find scummy I find troubling. I'd probably be okay with the lynch here, but I'd prefer one of my bottom three.


This is a weak reason to read Red Ryu as scum, especially since your reasoning for some reads has been pointed out as lazy from Plytho:

LaserGuy wrote:
Plytho wrote:Also, your read on Gamma, Znirk and Heuristically_alone is terribly lazy.


It's not a read on them, it's a read on everyone else. And I think it's probably right. You didn't play in X-Men, but in that game I was daychat scum with Gopher of Pern, who vanished early in D1. I think I was partnerless for four days, and I was freaking out about it. I prodded him twice. heury hasn't posted in 10 days. If he were scum, there's no way his buddies wouldn't have done something about that by now.


I say again, if you are going to suspect someone because you don't care for their reads, you better back up your own reads then, and engage with the people in question. (Red Ryu, Me, etc)

User avatar
Gamma Emerald
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2017 2:10 am UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Gamma Emerald » Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:55 pm UTC

I've tried to read FF in the other game and am having trouble drawing conclusions. I will do something though.
@FrozenFlame: Why EXACTLY do you find me scummy, and how do you think my play here is comparing to our last game together?

User avatar
Evil George Washington
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 2:04 am UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Evil George Washington » Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:55 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:@EGW: I will have a look this evening.


I didn't see this. Thank you.

User avatar
Evil George Washington
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 2:04 am UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Evil George Washington » Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:59 pm UTC

I'm going to step out for now, be back later.

User avatar
jimbobmacdoodle
Posts: 149
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:40 pm UTC
Location: NP 811/The Present

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:36 pm UTC

Gamma Emerald: My previous read of him was back late on D1 here where I actually considered him as a better scum candidate than moody for various reasons, including Maven's case on him (possible scum-motivation for killing Maven?). Picking up from where that read left off, his next post was a catch-up post, where his catch-up actually seems mostly voting me. At that point, the wagon on me had already fallen apart, so he's avoiding joining the moody wagon and apparently is shocked to see me grouping the two of them together as scum, despite them being my two scummiest reads, along with Red Ryu for quite a bit of time during D1. The former point (avoiding joining the moody wagon) is relatively null, because his later post appears to cover the section of time when the wagon did collapse, but the latter is still relevant. He eventually supports moody's lynch, but he doesn't make a case for it and by that point, moody was on 10 votes, if I've counted correctly.

His early D2 content is pretty empty. He eventually states a couple of opinions (mpolo for his claim, even though it was pretty clear that we all expected him to do that), and a new reason to find me scum (late wagon swing). The latter one, as others have pointed out ignore the fact that moody flipped scum. I'm not sure what to make of that personally point personally - I could just as easily see a buddy of moody posting it to try to continue to justify an otherwise unsubstantiated scum read on me, without really thinking about it, as an actual town slip, so I'm treating it as null. He also decides to rule out two scum teams just because there was only one kill, even with a vig, which is a bit of a stretch - possibly trying to play down a second scum team, maybe, especially if that team didn't have access to a kill for some reason, or isn't even a killing faction (e.g. cult)? He eventually votes for FrozenFlame, but prior to that, he'd posted nothing about FrozenFlame on D2, at least, so this seems a bit of a surprise. He also seems to just be riding other people's cases, rather than making any of his own (see how he apparently decided to vote for me, and was also asking for others' reads on moody previously). He has a few short comments about Znirk, one of our main lurkers, related to a very old, possible town slip. These could just as easily come from scum as town, so more null territory. He says he's trying to town and scum hunt, but hasn't posted all that many thoughts or asked many questions to show this. And this post is both weird and unhelpful (given up already?), although he subsequently picks up a little bit. That being said, two and half of his four top scum reads are based on others' comments, and I've disappeared off the list, despite previously being a scum read, with no new comments either way to explain it. At least he's got some of his own comments on the town reads as well, although the BoomFrog one seems almost a "reverse OMGUS" (town read because he isn't against Gamma).

@Gamma - what's changed your mind regarding me?

Conclusion: I think Gamma is scum. He's definitely a potential buddy for moody, of which there aren't huge numbers obviously, he seems to be relying more on other people's reads and opinions rather than crafting his own. Time to place a vote.

Vote: Gamma Emerald
Pseudo: Zyth

Zyth is one of my other top four lynch candidates. I'm not sure on my other two just yet. I'm going to take another look at Znirk's and heuristically_alone's early content to see if either of our lurkers in chief are likely scum. I'll also try to skim over Spak again tonight.

That still leaves me with re-reads of bessie, Sabrar, EGW, Peaceful Whale, Red Ryu, LaserGuy, Madge, and mpolo (I'm not going to bother with Amrock - I can't see any situation where he isn't what has been claimed, and I fully expect him to get killed by judgement). *Note to self* - book an entire month of work if I ever play in a game this size again!
BlitzGirl the Primordial
matthewglen wrote:Cueball looks concerned.

Image

User avatar
Gamma Emerald
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2017 2:10 am UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Gamma Emerald » Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:06 pm UTC

I'm not going to answer that question because if you don't know the answer you're not paying attention.
...for some reason I want a dayvig.

User avatar
#HBC | Zyth
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2014 5:11 pm UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby #HBC | Zyth » Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:11 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:@Zen: you think Spak could be Mason. You downgrade him 2 days later when it becomes clear that can't be the case. You make your very detailed case against him half a day later. Spak didn't post at all during this whole period. What was your timeline? When and why did you decide to re-read Spak line-by-line?
Scum reading Spak all game > looking into Spak and Ruy. Notice that that they keep hard town reading each other. > Put aside Spak read cause I could be wrong and they could be Masons. > Leave for two days. > Come back and start to catch up. See that Ruy demoted Spak. Mason theory no longer applies. > Continue looking into Spak. Reaffirm Spak scum. > Make Spak and catch up posts while simultaneosly responding to new posts coming in. > 3am need to sleep. Still figuring out plytho / bessie for the second half of post, but Spak half finished. Must sleep. Make some posts to plytho before going to bed. > Wake up few hours later. Save Spak part on google drive. > Get to work and copy-pasta Spak post from drive. > Get coffee and oatmeal from McDonalds > edit typos in Spak post and respond to recent posts while consuming meal products. > Post Spak post.

User avatar
Evil George Washington
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 2:04 am UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Evil George Washington » Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:14 pm UTC

Where is Bessie? I'd like to see her input on all of this. Zen, still waiting on your responses to myself and Boomfrog.

User avatar
Evil George Washington
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 2:04 am UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Evil George Washington » Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:22 pm UTC

Ignore that, I didn't ask you any questions, but I am interested in you answer others questions to you. I also want you to give your updated reads list with your Bottom 4.

User avatar
Gamma Emerald
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2017 2:10 am UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Gamma Emerald » Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:23 pm UTC

Other thoughts on jimbob's read on me:
Why would I have to make a case for moody, he did it himself!
I felt your grouping of me and moody was a false dichotomy. I wasn't as aware of the urgency to lynch at that point.
I recall having Maven in my townreads for pushing moody early so that's a possible reason he was killed. Also "scum-motivation for killing moody"? Feels a bit redundant honestly. All nightkills have scum motivation.
Building off that there are some points where the wording feels glitchy. "personally point personally" is an interesting sequence. Possible hit of the awkward grammar scumtell?
About my accusation of you on the wagon shift, to paraphrase BoomFrog, wouldn't I know better than to make that accusation as scum? I try to keep up on who my scummates are, a habit fueled by a mistake I saw a player make in one of my first games of forum mafia. I can link it if you'd like.
Yeah I rely on other's opinions sometimes, I'm not the best about forming reads in larger games and I like to listen to people I trust.

User avatar
jimbobmacdoodle
Posts: 149
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:40 pm UTC
Location: NP 811/The Present

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:28 pm UTC

heuristically_alone: Given the complete lurkiness without warning, I assume that something unexpected has come up. His last post on the forum was on the same day as his last post in game, although it does show him as being active on Wednesday, although what that means, I don't know. His opening post looks to immediately rule him as an unlikely buddy with Zyth due to his strong accusations of WIFOM etc. His question towards moody in post 2, also doesn't sound like something he'd direct towards a scum buddy. Most of his other early posts are continuations of a discussion with Zyth, and nothing in them strikes me either way. Town points for not jumping on the PW push, for reasons similar to mine. Interesting that he doesn't give any real scum picks here when asked for them although it could just be because he's not really looked at anybody else. His read on moody is bland to say the least. And that's about it.

Conclusion: Nothing to shout about really. The worst point in that is his read of moody, in my opinion, but it was still fairly early in the Day. He's an outside candidate for moody's buddy for that one point, but it's extremely weak without anything else to go off of.

Znirk: I actually already re-read Znirk earlier on D2, and nothing has changed since, since he hasn't posted further. Looking back at it, I was giving benefit of the doubt to him for his stated real-life reasons, and while those still apply, I feel like I was giving townie points just for this, and not much else. His lack of thoughts on moody stand out a bit again.

Conclusion: Still not really enough information to make a fair judgement. He is ultimately a possible scum buddy for moody, but it's hardly an open and shut case.

Spak (again): Based on Zyth's case, I wanted to re-read Spak again from scratch, ignoring my previous read, to see if I noticed anything new. I get an okay feeling from the first post with content, but nothing particularly useful in judging him. He gives a fairly good justification of his BoomFrog vote, and I like how he followed it up later as well. I'm pretty certain the Madge self-vote issue was a genuine mistake, for someone who was rapidly tring to catch up. He definitely reads as though he is sincerely trying to catch up. His observation of EGW's apparent quick change of heart shows that he is trying to pay attention as he reads through. My biggest issue with his day end content was a singular lack of effort to re-read the top lynch wagons. This might be genuine, but I'll acknowledge it doesn't look great. On the other hand, I have no issue with his only post D2 - it includes some explained reads at least, and the rest seems to be genuinely trying to engage with LaserGuy's comments. Looking back over Zyth's case, the case seems exaggerated to me. I could defend Spak in each of the different sections, but I want to see how Spak responds instead.

Conclusion: I don't see obvious scumminess coming from Spak. I feel like Zyth's case may be exaggerated somewhat, and an attempt to drive a faulty lynch. I'd still like to get Spak's response though.
BlitzGirl the Primordial
matthewglen wrote:Cueball looks concerned.

Image

User avatar
jimbobmacdoodle
Posts: 149
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:40 pm UTC
Location: NP 811/The Present

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:48 pm UTC

Gamma Emerald wrote:I'm not going to answer that question because if you don't know the answer you're not paying attention.
...for some reason I want a dayvig.
Really? I just went back for a second time through your D2 posts this game, and since you stated that you still had a scum read on me here, you haven't mentioned me once, and I'm not in your top four. So, let me rephrase the question - prior to my most recent read on you, did you still consider me scum? If so, why am I not in your top four? If not, what changed to make you think that I am not scum?
Gamma Emerald wrote:Other thoughts on jimbob's read on me:
Why would I have to make a case for moody, he did it himself!
I'm not saying you necessarily should have, but empty support by that point meant nothing without explanation (so this bit is saying that your support for the moody lynch wagon didn't get you any town points).
Gamma Emerald wrote:I felt your grouping of me and moody was a false dichotomy. I wasn't as aware of the urgency to lynch at that point.
I'm still not sure what you are saying here. I had two confident scum reads. I wanted to vote for one, and I needed to decide. Why is that an issue?
Gamma Emerald wrote:I recall having Maven in my townreads for pushing moody early so that's a possible reason he was killed. Also "scum-motivation for killing moody"? Feels a bit redundant honestly. All nightkills have scum motivation.
The "scum-motivation" point was mostly stating something that crossed my mind as I thought about it. Not really a point in the case.
Gamma Emerald wrote:Building off that there are some points where the wording feels glitchy. "personally point personally" is an interesting sequence. Possible hit of the awkward grammar scumtell?
Or a typo because I wasn't re-reading through everything properly as I typed. The first "personally" there was a mistype.
Gamma Emerald wrote:About my accusation of you on the wagon shift, to paraphrase BoomFrog, wouldn't I know better than to make that accusation as scum? I try to keep up on who my scummates are, a habit fueled by a mistake I saw a player make in one of my first games of forum mafia. I can link it if you'd like.
Maybe you do try to keep up on who your summates are, but that doesn't mean to say that scum can't make mistakes and say things without thinking them through fully.
Gamma Emerald wrote:Yeah I rely on other's opinions sometimes, I'm not the best about forming reads in larger games and I like to listen to people I trust.
I accept that this might be play style point, but it's also lazy, and a great way for scum to avoid having to draw up their own reads. I made a similar point about Zyth earlier with regards to his request for help with reading moody.
BlitzGirl the Primordial
matthewglen wrote:Cueball looks concerned.

Image

User avatar
Evil George Washington
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 2:04 am UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D1 Begins! | 9/13

Postby Evil George Washington » Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:51 pm UTC

Evil George Washington wrote:Zyth, talk to me baby. Have any reads? Anyone of interest you want to talk about?


He did ask me about Moody, but keep in mind it was in response to this.

User avatar
Evil George Washington
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 2:04 am UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Evil George Washington » Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:05 pm UTC

bessie wrote:I have an early meeting tomorrow. I’ll be working on my updated reads tomorrow night and Saturday.


I'll hold you to that, I hope the meeting went well.

User avatar
jimbobmacdoodle
Posts: 149
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:40 pm UTC
Location: NP 811/The Present

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:39 pm UTC

I've decided to do Madge and mpolo next, because I don't recall having re-read them at all this game, and it shouldn't take too long (I need to go to bed soon).

Madge: I have no reason to doubt her opening claim. As others have mentioned, it doesn't guarantee that she's town, but I'm reasonably happy to say that it's unlikely to come from scum (although I suppose it is possible). Indy with a 3-times half-lynch win-condition is entirely possible. Most of her content surrounds her claim, and related points. She does seem to be genuinely concerned about making sure the real lynch is a priority, which she gets townie points for, even if she's not making any attempt to assist herself at this stage (although this is typical D1 Madge as others have said). Her missing the tree stump bit is weird, but I can't help but feel that this isn't the first time she's made a similar mistake (I'm possibly being uncharitable - maybe I'm thinking of somebody else). She's almost certainly not lying about it though, because it would be a high-risk and basically pointless gamble if she were.

Conclusion: I don't see any reason not to believe that she is town. Her play is pretty typical Madge. She might be an indie, but if she is, it doesn't look like she's likely going to win (assuming that her win-condition is somehow tied to the half-lynched stuff), so I'm not bothered by her.

mpolo: His opening comments with his claim don't get him a free pass, but I do buy his logic for his night action target N1. I'm pretty sure that town redirectors primary aim is to mess with the kill somehow, and that wouldn't have been relevant N0. With the lack of detail in flips, it in retrospect sounds like a useful thing to make clear as well. His brief ordered reads list has me and plytho as his two scum picks (I disagree with both of these, obviously). I find it a little weird that he labels plytho as scum lean, for defending PW, but PW as neutral. He updates his scum reads to be the consensus of RR, GE and Spak, without mentioning why he's taken me and plytho off. He does promise to take a deeper look at moody, but this never happens. His reads list earlier this week suggests to me that he is actively considering his thoughts at least (I kind of like his stream-of-consciousness reasoning on Zyth, even if it's not that helpful). Somehow it's missing Gamma Emerald, which is interesting given that Gamma was his previous top-scum pick. He also doesn't state any reasons for finding me scummy in this post. I makes points against Zyth that are similar to some of my own thouhgts. He is willing to "judgement hammer" Glados as a sacrifice, which sounds townie to me. I don't see scum volunteering in this way. He acknowledges his limitations on his read of me, promising to re-read so that he can form his own opinion (although this has not yet happened - mpolo, if you are re-reading this now, I apologise for the massive walls you have to trawl through!).

Conclusion: mpolo strikes me as a busy townie (busy RL), who is trying to help where he can, and is aware of his limitations. I'd appreciate it if he can to do some re-reads of players and provided a full set of groupings, so that we know where he stands on all players, not just a select few.

People I've still to re-read Day 2, or who I feel I need to have another look at again: Red Ryu, EGW, PW, bessie, LaserGuy, maybe Sabrar (I actually have done a re-read once already of him, but I would like to take another look if I get time).

Current alignment groups:
Town (of varying degrees of certainty): EGW, bessie, LaserGuy, plytho, Sabrar, Peaceful Whale, Madge, mpolo, Spak (pending response)
Unsure, pending re-read: Red Ryu
Possibly scum, but not enough to reliably judge: heuristically_alone, Znirk
Possibly scum, but not on moody's team: BoomFrog, FrozenFlame
Scum: Gamma Emerald, Zyth
Indy: Amrock

Top 4: Gamma Emerald, Zyth, FrozenFlame, Znirk. I really would prefer one of the first two.

Bed time.
BlitzGirl the Primordial
matthewglen wrote:Cueball looks concerned.

Image

User avatar
#HBC | YOLOSWAG
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2014 5:07 pm UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby #HBC | YOLOSWAG » Sat Sep 23, 2017 12:33 am UTC

Deadline is Monday, September 25th at 11:59:59 PM EST! With 18 alive, it takes 10 to lynch! https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/j ... t=sanserif

Votals 2.4
Zyth (1): Sabrar
EGW (1): Madge
Gamma Emerald (5): plytho, Red Ryu, EGW, Frozenflame, jimbobmacdoodle
plytho (2): Bessie, LaserGuy
Spak (1): BoomFrog
#HBC | Zyth (1): #HBC | Zyth
#HBC | Red Ryu (1): Gamma Emerald
Not Voting (6): Spak, heuristically_alone, Peaceful Whale, Znirk, mpolo, Amrock

Judgement Votals
Amrock (6): LaserGuy, plytho, EGW, Frozenflame, Sabrar, mpolo
Laserguy (0)

Not Judgement Voting (12): Red Ryu, Gamma Emerald, Spak, heuristically_alone, Peaceful Whale, Bessie, Znirk, jimbobmacdoodle, Madge, Amrock, Zyth, BoomFrog

User avatar
bessie
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:27 am UTC
Location: California

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby bessie » Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:47 am UTC

First and most important, Peaceful Whale, I’m sorry for your loss. Do not feel obliged to continue playing this game, if you need to quit we will manage.

Three pages… but it hasn’t even been 24 hours… ok page 34.

plytho wrote:I don't want to talk about Peaceful Whale's role. I want to talk about this, and only this:
plytho wrote:Re: Peaceful Whale’s soft claim and my response vs bessies
bessie wrote:As I am not the brightest or most clever player in this game, I’m sure that anything I noticed would also be noticed by everyone else.
I disagree with this on principle. I think, especially in a game as large as this one (but also in general), that it’s very easy for this kind of public information to get lost to some townies.
Some numbers for clarity: (assuming 5 scum and 15 townies for easy maths)
If 1 in 5 people notice A, all scum will know A and around 12 townies will miss it.
If 3 in 5 people notice B, all scum will know B and around 6 townies will miss it.
If 9 in 10 people notice C, all scum will know C and 1 or 2 townies might miss it.

So making sure this information is known by everyone is the townie thing to do in. That’s what I was getting at.
This point is all I wanted to make. It is a general case where we seem to have a different view on townie way to respond to public information that may be missed by other players. This is what I want to talk about. And I won't drop this until you acknowledge my view and we end up either in agreement about how to best handle this or we agree to have different, valid views on this kind of situation. The nature of Peaceful Whale's role is entirely irrelevant to this discussion.

I don't want to drop this because I feel very strongly that this is a townie thing to do and I will keep doing it in future games. I want to talk this out so you know where I'm coming from next time I do something like this.

Well. …Ok…Let’s see if I can explain this calmly and rationally.

WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU WANT FROM ME?

Listen, after the game hit me up. I will discuss statistics and game theory all day with you. I will talk your ear off. But too much of my D2 has been responding to the same points over and over again from you, and you’re keeping me from looking at anyone else. Or is that intentional? Are you worried I might actually have time to do a proper reads list? What will I find when I read jimbob?

Oh, and I’m not going to give you the answer you are fishing for. Vote me for it.

LaserGuy wrote: My secondary ability is Judgment, which allows for an extra lynch between only me and my chosen target.
Too bad. I would volunteer me and plytho.

Gamma Emerald wrote:I'm back to asserting Znirk is town, along with being hella infuriated with Bessie quoting the WAY WRONG THING FROM ZNIRK.
PEdit: no I just blew my stack in rage at Bessie for fucking up the connection for Znirk being cleared. Although maybe it's just me being a dumbass thinking about it because she was replying archivally.
Wait, how is this my fault? I didn’t misquote anyone. You’re perfectly free to do your own reads instead of just skimming my posts and borrowing my reads. And I said it was a null here.

plytho wrote:
#HBC | Zyth wrote: Stop trying to continue the back and forth with bessie when the points have already been summed up. It doesn't look genuine any more.
I made my final point (+why I continued), consider it stopped.
If you consider this stopped, then why in the post quoted above (made about two and a half hours before this one) did you tell me you didn’t want to drop this?

Evil George Washington wrote:heuristically_alone - Null. The only thing that shows town intent is his question to Moody, which spirals down to Moody being questioned and him dodging it. Otherwise I couldn't really get a bead on him. I tried reading the previous game he was in (with Peaceful Whale) and I was surprised to see him as scum there. It turns out he's pretty open and passive as scum. I have no data from his town game though.
If you’re bored, X Men was heury's last town game. I had him as scummy until the very end. Also pretty good for meta read on me and Sabrar. :)

Evil George Washington wrote: Bessie - Null. I found her initial push on Peaceful Whale convincing. Such as him taking reads in her style. I did find it weird that she changed her mind due to my reasoning, as I feel it wasn't that convincing. Especially when Boomfrog commented on the same reasoning with a different conclusion. (That he did the same as scum before so we shouldn't take that for granted) I also found it weird that she had not been engaging me D1, and then popped up with this Jimbob push at a convenient time. I also feel like I have seen a lot less of her lately. She also had Moody as 'would not like to lynch', so Moody's flip doesn't reflect positively on her.
Refer to the underlined, can you specify what (Peaceful Whale?) and where I changed my mind about? I’m just not following the reference. And I think that perhaps it seems that you have been seeing a lot less of me because everyone else is posting so much content. I have the most time on the weekends, and was planning on devoting all last Sunday to this but the game was delayed and I didn’t want get too put too much in to this at night for reasons explained here. Read why I didn’t want to lynch moody here, (see reply to BoomFrog).

LaserGuy wrote:bessie: I still have issues with this post, which feels very inconsistent with what I normally expect of her and I do find it interesting that she has not since followed up on jimbob either. That said, the rest of her content, notably her push on plytho, looks very good to me.
I’m trying to get to a read of jimbob (and everyone else). plytho’s been trying to keep me busy so I don’t have time. :P

Need to take a break here (continue at page 37).

User avatar
Gamma Emerald
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2017 2:10 am UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Gamma Emerald » Sat Sep 23, 2017 4:03 am UTC

@Bessie no it's my fault I was just pissy. I'm sorry about yelling at you.

User avatar
Evil George Washington
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 2:04 am UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Evil George Washington » Sat Sep 23, 2017 4:11 am UTC

bessie wrote:
Evil George Washington wrote:Peaceful Whale - I think Peace Whale is putting his foot in his mouth far too many times to be a strong candidate for mafia. He also seems eager and aloof, while being playful. I think this supports the thought that he is newbie town with no hidden motives. Same as before. Bessie mentions that he may be trying to pretend to be a noob and a certain detail seemed convincing but I'd need more to reconsider.
This is a reasonable point. Also, I would think that if he is mafia, his team would be coaching him more in Daychat. Unless the rest of the scum team is absent, and he’s trying to do this on his own.


This post. If it didn't convince you to change your read, how did it affect your read on Peaceful Whale? Tell me the thought progression. (Scum > Scum lean etc) What do you think of his D2 play so far?

User avatar
Evil George Washington
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 2:04 am UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Evil George Washington » Sat Sep 23, 2017 4:37 am UTC

Sabrar, can you ask Madge to help us with the Gamma wagon?

User avatar
Gamma Emerald
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2017 2:10 am UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Gamma Emerald » Sat Sep 23, 2017 4:48 am UTC

Vote plytho
Better shot at getting a lynch here

User avatar
Madge
Posts: 66
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 3:45 am UTC
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Madge » Sat Sep 23, 2017 4:48 am UTC

Condolences to PeacefulWhale. We will be OK if you quit the game, don't stress. At the same time, if for some reason a super fast-pased mafia game with people slinging mud at each other is what you need to take your mind off things, then we're cool with that, too.

Plytho - your wagon analysis thread was exactly what I was thinking of writing, thank you for posting it.

My conclusions based on Plytho's analysis: Spak = bad, Red Ryu = bad, Gamma Emerald = bad (roughly in descending order of badness)

[quote=Plytho]Likelihood of being buddies with moody:
Very unlikely:
Sabrar
Evil George Washington
Jimbobmacdoodle
Znirk
BoomFrog
unlikely[/quote]

I agree with this ranking (more or less) based on Plytho's wagon analysis.

Long weekend this weekend so expect less activity than usual from me.

FF = attitude is a bit abraisive but probably playstyle, god knows my attitude is probably super annoying too

I love pissed off Bessie. I don't think that would happen to Scum!Bessie. Town points.

@EGW: Sabrar is not my daddy, you don't need to ask his permission to campaign for my vote.

My bottom 4 in no particular order / no particualr justification:

{frozen flame, spak, red ryu, gamma emerald}

so with Daddy Sabrar's permission :roll:

vote: gamma emerald
I'm writing a supernatural romance novel, it updates the first weekend of every month. You can find it here.

User avatar
Gamma Emerald
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2017 2:10 am UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Gamma Emerald » Sat Sep 23, 2017 4:49 am UTC

Evil George Washington wrote:Sabrar, can you ask Madge to help us with the Gamma wagon?

Why aren't you asking her YOURSELF?


Return to “Mafia”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests