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Gamma Emerald
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Gamma Emerald » Sat Sep 23, 2017 8:27 pm UTC

Evil George Washington wrote:Gamma why didn't you mention this before now?

Because I was so angry I felt it needed to be addressed.
Also re: my reads, I'm not the type to fake reads as town. Even as mafia I try to have a logic to them. So yeah my voting has been a little odd because of my role but it hasn't had an impact on my reads.

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Evil George Washington
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Evil George Washington » Sat Sep 23, 2017 8:39 pm UTC

Gamma Emerald wrote:Because I was so angry I felt it needed to be addressed.


I don't understand. Can you expand?

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Spak
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Spak » Sat Sep 23, 2017 8:47 pm UTC

Sorry, I've been super busy and am currently operating off of a few hours of sleep. Trying to keep up as best I can.

Red Ryu, don’t be so quick to brush off LaserGuy’s content. If he wrote it before he got his role pm, it’s useful because it’s written from the point of view of not-mafia.

This is something that I hadn't considered before... It's impossible to tell if the content is coming from a town!LaserGuy's perspective because he had no mod-confirmed info by this point. That's a useful tidbit I hadn't considered about sub-ins before.

#HBC | Zyth wrote:Boom led the moody lynch. It would not have taken off or remained stable had it not been for him.

This still isn't a valid reason for him not being scum if we're assuming two mafia teams.

#HBC | Zyth wrote:I have a theory on Spak and Ruy, so I'm holding off on them for now, but if the crowd went that way, I'd definitely join in.

Kinda excited to hear about this lol.

LaserGuy wrote:@Spak: Why didn't you vote D1?

I did. I was on BoomFrog and then voted to activate Madge at the end of D1.

LaserGuy wrote:I twitch a little bit at this because a player who is much better than I am (dimochka) has noted being "happy" about a successful lynch as a common scumtell.

Or maybe I was just voicing my happiness about a successful lynch. Being happy about a lynch could be a scumtell, but it could also just be someone being glad to have one less scummy slot in the game. I usually say it's a scumtell if it seems ingenuine or forced, but I guess if something seems forced is opinion-based in most situations.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:His reads list has me thinking that BoomFrog might not be moody's scum-buddy, mostly because he asks questions that just seem unlikely to come from a buddy. On the other hand, his reasons for moody being a scum-lean essentially boil down to small inconsistencies in moody's reads list (Gamma Emerald town with no reason, mpolo in neutral pile after early town read), which is hardly an amazing reason for putting him in the scum pile.

So what makes you think that it couldn't be a poorly constructed bus if the scum-lean read was fairly unsubstantiated?

Gamma Emerald wrote:Think about how fast numbers could go down. If the vig misfires and no crossteam kills occur, as well as no repeated kills, that 4 dead in the night (vig sgot + vig plus scum A kill + scum B kill).

What makes you think that both teams would have NKs? The only game that I've played with two scumteams had one more member on the non-NK scumteam to balance out the factions.

Posting this to let people know I'm still alive, will continue working on catching up.
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Evil George Washington
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Evil George Washington » Sat Sep 23, 2017 8:52 pm UTC

Spak who are your top three scum reads at the top of your head? Who would you vote today and why?

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Gamma Emerald
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Gamma Emerald » Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:08 pm UTC

Evil George Washington wrote:
Gamma Emerald wrote:Because I was so angry I felt it needed to be addressed.


I don't understand. Can you expand?

I was upset at my situation so I called you out to try and get you to realize you were being bad.
@Spak I've rarely played a game with two scumteams where one didn't have a kill. Also you seem to be mentioning the jungle games which give the non-killing faction a special power. Like, every game where I've seen a scumteam it had some form of factional power.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby #HBC | Zyth » Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:10 pm UTC

I like how literally every role Frozen said OS wouldn't put in a game, is in the game.

(George I'm at work and on mobile. I'll respond to you when I get home)

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Evil George Washington
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Evil George Washington » Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:13 pm UTC

Thank you. Still at work, almost done.

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Evil George Washington
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Evil George Washington » Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:29 pm UTC

Spak wrote:This still isn't a valid reason for him [Boom Boom] not being scum if we're assuming two mafia teams.


Why aren't you voting Boom or voting anyone at all today for that matter?

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Spak
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Spak » Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:30 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote:She is so clearly town it's painful.

Why? I still wasn't satisfied with your answer early D1, and you still haven't clarified or answered any of the questions I asked on Page 13
BoomFrog wrote:Unfortunately, roles are not fully revealed so we won't know your role details and also you are demonstrably very likely to mess up trying to bread crumbs and would probably accidentally beak the roles against using codes.

With that said, if you breadcrumb it'll still make your claim more believable later in the day. Mafia has a harder time at with making legitimate breadrcumbs because they likely have to fakeclaim (unless their role could be bent into a town-esque role).
plytho wrote:People I think possibly on that team are Gamma, Zen and to a lesser degree bessie.

Is there a reason you think these three in particular are a scumteam? (If I just missed it in my catch-up, tell me and I'll scour through prior pages).
bessie wrote:Peaceful Whale, if you have an investigation result (watcher, cop, tracker, etc) and it directly implicates scum, you should probably reveal it. For example, if you are a cop and you got a mafia result on bessie, you should announce it in thread. But by doing so, you also announce that you are a cop, and you make yourself a night kill target.

I agree with this, although it should also be noted that if we're not informed of redirects, there's a small chance that an investigative result could be wrong. Additionally, I'd give the advice that you should be extremely conservative with sharing your results. Investigative roles are EXTREMELY useful while finding out information late-game, so outing yourself in order to make a play D3 might not be smart in the grand scheme of things.
BoomFrog wrote:I expect your defense of Madge to be stronger.

I didn't know that defending Madge was Sabrar's job. I'm honestly more trusting of people who don't 100% trust anybody because that means they're coming into this game with as much knowledge as your typical townie.
"As a friend, it is my duty to inform you that your life appears to need more justice."
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Spak
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Spak » Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:45 pm UTC

Evil George Washington wrote:Why aren't you voting Boom or voting anyone at all today for that matter?

I haven't gotten to the most recent vote count, so I wanted to make sure I wasn't putting anyone at L-1 or L-2 yet. I'll vote Boom when I get read up and have confirmed that I'm not putting him too close to lynching yet.

Evil George Washington wrote:Spak who are your top three scum reads at the top of your head? Who would you vote today and why?

1. BoomFrog - Still hasn't replied to my points all the way back on Page 13, not contented with his replies thus far in my read of D2, and I disagree heavily with most of what he's saying. He still has an unresolved contradiction that I've brought up to him multiple times in D1 and D2, but he jumped thread for a while and never replied to my cases against him.
2. Gamma - I wasn't happy with Gamma's posts at the end of D1. I think Maven's case D1 was legitimate, I was really disappointed with the response that was Gamma gave to the Maven push, and his content has been fairly empty (as of a half dozen pages ago).\

And I need to go to dinner. I'll finish responding and reading up later.
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Evil George Washington
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Evil George Washington » Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:45 pm UTC

I'm going to clock out now. I'll be home in an hour or so. Jimbob I will respond to you then.

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Spak
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Spak » Sat Sep 23, 2017 10:27 pm UTC

Gamma Emerald wrote:I've rarely played a game with two scumteams where one didn't have a kill. Also you seem to be mentioning the jungle games which give the non-killing faction a special power. Like, every game where I've seen a scumteam it had some form of factional power.

The one game I've played with two scumteams, there was no additional power:
https://smashboards.com/threads/mini-ga ... in.414850/

Maybe this was just a coincidentally odd setup, but even if the other scumteam had a power, I see no reason that they would have to have a kill. The other team (if there is one) could be more info-based rather than kill-based so they could strategize better and paint themselves in a good light. Every Mafia member could vote for a NK independantly and the one who has the most votes gets killed (or a randomly selected member of the highest number of scum votes). There are plenty of ways to balance multiple scumteams without giving each team a NK. There could very well be one, but I fail to see how there couldn't be two.
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plytho
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby plytho » Sat Sep 23, 2017 10:36 pm UTC

So, I didn't even get to phone read because my battery died. I have nothing planned tomorrow so I will be able to finish my reads then.

I guess the big news is Gamma's claim.
Sabrar wrote:Bounty Hunter doesn't seem like a townie role to me unless you can guarantee that your targets are non-town. Otherwise it's just a Lyncher.

A guarantee that the targets are non town would be way too powerful. That's better than a cop.

I'm fine with lynching this lyncher.

I can imagine Red Ryu will be too.

Spak wrote:
plytho wrote:People I think possibly on that team are Gamma, Zen and to a lesser degree bessie.

Is there a reason you think these three in particular are a scumteam? (If I just missed it in my catch-up, tell me and I'll scour through prior pages).
At that point I was convinced Zen moved the lynch away from moody and scummy looking Gamma. I had a scumlean on bessie and she seemed to fit the team.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Sat Sep 23, 2017 10:46 pm UTC

#HBC | Red Ryu: My previous read of Ryu was here. To summarise, I previously had him as scummy due to low effort, but it subsequently picked up significantly. This read is going to be made by re-reading from that point onwards, which happens to be the same as reading his D2 content.
Spoiler:
His first and several other posts on D2 shows he's actively considering the various things going on, and their implication. I like how he is trying to engage with people, posting his thoughts and reads, even if they are fairly scattered and brief. It's pretty clear that he's posting stream-of-consciousness style. For example, his comments directed at BoomFrog show he's trying to understand BoomFrog and confirm or deny his read of him, without tunnelling. I think he's misunderstood how Madge's tree-stumping works. From what I can understand, her becoming a tree stump isn't a voluntary action. It happens once she hammers someone (or potentially, when she is the last voter on the Judgement loser). His thought processes on Zyth seem to parallel my own - suspicious, but only really with hindsight post the moody flip. He promises to come back to a number of things in this post, but I'm not sure I saw him ever do so. He prods, and votes Gamma, for reasons that I like.
Conclusion: I have no issues with Ryu. He looks like he's trying to understand what's going on, is being open with his thought processes, and those thoughts in several ways match my own (e.g. his read on Gamma). I see no reason to believe him to be anything other than town at this point.

Laser Guy:I'm putting Dark Horse's lack of posts as essentially null. The only thing that might make me consider otherwise is what others have said regarding his meta, but really, without explanation, it could just as easily be because of some RL issue or whatever. Anyway, it means I'm going to be basing my LaserGuy read on his posts only.
Spoiler:
First of all, a few town points for claiming miller. It's not cast iron that a miller claim comes from town, but I have yet to see otherwise. His Judgement target choice shows, if nothing else, that he and Zyth are not scum buddies. I do agree that his case hinges on one or two assumptions and misunderstandings (including, I think, a belief that Zyth knows that I am scum, which I know to be false), but it definitely reinforces the previous point if nothing else. I like his observations regarding the 99% comments by Zyth. I don't particularly like his team line-up for his two teams, since four out of the six on there are town, in my opinion. His read on bessie looks bad, since it ignores the fact that bessie had previously highlighted her concerns with my play earlier on D1. Interestingly, despite labelling Gamma as scummy, he doesn't place GE in one of his two theorised scum teams, even though I assume that this post was crafted at the same time or before the Zyth case post. Ditto heuristically_alone. He's also twisting my comments somewhat in his read on me, and neglecting the fact that I have a track record of bad phrasing. Townie points awarded for being willing to be the last judgement voter. Moving on from his reads, he interacts with plenty of players, responding to questions and other comments. He's obviously considering the consequences of proposed strategies, such as the Madge tree stump situation, and I like his responses to people regarding this. I also like his responses to Zyth's defence against the case on him (for example who started the moody suspicions), rather than just blindly accepting the response. I don't like his comments directed at Spak here, given that he was wrong about Spak not voting and the "happiness over the lynch" part. I really don't like this updated reads list, as I currently have town reads on three of the 4 scum. It gets worse when EGW joins them in the next reads list (and I've only shifted slightly). I do accept that he has some valid points in there, especially with what he said about plytho.


Conclusion: My biggest issue with LaserGuy is that his reads are very different to my own, both at the start of the day and now. His overall play feels fairly townie, although some of his cases hinge entirely on one or more assumptions, including for example his Zyth case requiring there to be two scum teams. I'm labelling as tentatively town for now because of his play style, but if I'm right about my own reads elsewhere, I wouldn't be surprised if there's something up with him.

A thought that literally just occurred to me - since somebody will get lynched, what do people think about that person being the last to vote amrock as well, if they can be persuaded? Sure we lose out on a chance to get another death through the explosion (assuming it hits the last person to vote, and not something else, which we can't be certain about), but we also don't have to sacrifice a townie. Just a thought.

Roughly ordered list (the top half is all a bit difficult to order):
Town
jimbob
EGW
Madge (possible indy candidate)
bessie
Red Ryu
mpolo
Sabrar
Peaceful Whale
plytho
LaserGuy
Spak
heuristically_alone
BoomFrog
Znirk
FrozenFlame
Zyth
Gamma Emerald
Scum
Amrock - indy

I'm aware that there's been a few posts since I started composing this, but I'm too tired to go back over them at this point. I'll look at them tomorrow.
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Image

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby #HBC | Zyth » Sat Sep 23, 2017 10:49 pm UTC

Spak, seeing as you're behind, wouldn't it be best for you to not waste time discussing set up stuff? In my opinion, you should focus on your reads. That's where we will get value from your posts. We don't get much from you discussing set up speculation, especially over that which has already been addressed. Contribution is good, but not if it's empty. And your strategy and set up related comments are just that: empty.

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Gamma Emerald
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Gamma Emerald » Sat Sep 23, 2017 11:33 pm UTC

Spak wrote:
Gamma Emerald wrote:I've rarely played a game with two scumteams where one didn't have a kill. Also you seem to be mentioning the jungle games which give the non-killing faction a special power. Like, every game where I've seen a scumteam it had some form of factional power.

The one game I've played with two scumteams, there was no additional power:
https://smashboards.com/threads/mini-ga ... in.414850/

Maybe this was just a coincidentally odd setup, but even if the other scumteam had a power, I see no reason that they would have to have a kill. The other team (if there is one) could be more info-based rather than kill-based so they could strategize better and paint themselves in a good light. Every Mafia member could vote for a NK independantly and the one who has the most votes gets killed (or a randomly selected member of the highest number of scum votes). There are plenty of ways to balance multiple scumteams without giving each team a NK. There could very well be one, but I fail to see how there couldn't be two.

That was a mistake then. Mafia are supposed to have a factional roleblock in that setup. I guess my theory was faulty anyway. Someone else brought it up but there was the possibility Maven withheld. I actually was thinking the single kill was a sign that it was one team when I talked about that initially.
As for what plytho is saying about my role I think even if one of my targets is town it's not that bad. I've seen roles made to be plus-and-minus roles before. In a past game I was Ascetic Enabler enabling a mafia ascetic, where the design philosophy was if my role died it was a dead townie but the mafia also lost the ascetic modifier.

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Spak
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Spak » Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:00 am UTC

#HBC | Zyth wrote:(btw I said before that I was willing to put Spak/Ruy aside. That has since changed. I thought since they were hard town reading each other for no reason that they could potentially be Masons. Since Spak has been demoted on Ruy's recent read list (and even more so on that Ninja reads list), I no longer have reason to think so)

Oh, OK. I can follow that line of reasoning.

Got to BoomFrog's read list. He gave no justification for his top 2 town reads (Madge and EGW), his read on Gamma is "I trust the 'town slip,'" and he doesn't really have any solid, tangible justification for his scum reads. I'm apparently his strongest scum read, and the case he made against me before voting for me to be lynched and judgement hammering is "felt okay but disappearing and fixating on a bad read are bad signs." I'm honestly starting to get a little concerned with the divide that seems to be forming in this game, and am questioning if one side is led by a scumteam and the other is led by town or if there are two scumteams and town is being forced into taking sides in some sort of gang war.

Either way, BoomFrog's readlist is super weak and I'm disappointed that he laid out so little evidence supporting the positioning on his read list.

plytho wrote:Spak: doesn’t vote moody when he can. Moves vote from BoomFrog to Madge after being caught up late at that point moody is at 9 votes. States that he wants to have a FAIR vote down by deadline. To me this feels like dodging the vote. Even if you’re not caught up you could put down a temporary vote of at least an opinion on the four lynch targets based on what you’ve read so far. Spak doesn’t do that and waits until the last minute to not vote moody.

I genuinely didn't want to vote for someone until I was caught up because that way I'd be able to give an informed opinion, but by the time I was all caught up, it looked like Moody's wagon already had the support that it needed. I would've swapped to Moody if we needed a hammer near deadline (as I said here: viewtopic.php?f=53&t=123409&start=880#p4245215), but at that point, I was concerned with activating Madge to see if she would provide any townie effects so that we'd determine if her effects line up more closely with Town or Indie.

Oh, there's a wall on me. Time to start quoting lol.
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bessie
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby bessie » Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:27 am UTC

Evil George Washington wrote:
bessie wrote:
Evil George Washington wrote:Peaceful Whale - I think Peace Whale is putting his foot in his mouth far too many times to be a strong candidate for mafia. He also seems eager and aloof, while being playful. I think this supports the thought that he is newbie town with no hidden motives. Same as before. Bessie mentions that he may be trying to pretend to be a noob and a certain detail seemed convincing but I'd need more to reconsider.
This is a reasonable point. Also, I would think that if he is mafia, his team would be coaching him more in Daychat. Unless the rest of the scum team is absent, and he’s trying to do this on his own.

This post. If it didn't convince you to change your read, how did it affect your read on Peaceful Whale? Tell me the thought progression. (Scum > Scum lean etc) What do you think of his D2 play so far?


Summary of Peaceful Whale. When I started I didn’t realize how many posts he had, so there are places where I note that I need to look up a reference, but (because time, volume) I’m not going to do that unless it’s important in my analysis.

Spoiler:
Day 1
Post 1: Idle chat, RVS.
Post 2: Hey I’m a noob!
Post 3: I suck don’t expect much.
Post 4: But I really want to play.
Post 5: Overreaction a to vote on him. Inexperience.
Post 6: I’m still a noob.
Post 7: This is the “joke reads list” that has received much attention. ***
Post 8: But my prior post was a joke!
Post 9: Null.
Post 10: Odd conjecture that Zyth is a cop. Reply to question (I can’t remember from who). Another newbie overreaction.
Post 11: More Zyth-cop speculation, and a joke.
Post 12: Null joke.
Post 13: Reply to Zyth re heury vote (incorrect in context). * I replied this here.
Post 14: Another overreaction to a vote for him.
Post 15: You’ll be sorry when I’m gone! Inexperience, and youth.
Post 16: There is a lot wrong with this post. *** Read my response and prodding here.
Post 17: I’m a noob, I suck but I’ll try.
Post 18: Claim- didn’t use power last night. The timing of this post is suspicious. *** Read my response and suspicion here.
Post 19: Reply to BoomFrog re previous post.
Post 20: Confused as to what to do next.
Post 21: Reads list. ***My analysis and concern that this is a recycled list here.
Post 22: Some replies to Sabrar regarding PW’s reads.
Post 23: Let’s lynch the lurker! ( look up who is he referring to)
Post 24: Sheeps someone and votes Boomfrog. (look up who is he referring to)
Post 25: I’m trying but I’m busy with school.
Post 26: Power claim. ***Important.
Post 27: Reply to bessie re suicide bomber and accusation that PW reads are copied from other players.
Post 28: I’m gonna try to compile where I copied my reads.
Post 29: Question to who? (look up who is he replying to)
Post 30: This is who and where I got the impressions for my reads (he’s mistaken, it isn’t).
Post 31: Reply to question on previous post, still gets it wrong.
Post 32: Null.
Post 33: Another explanation on Post #7.
Post 34: Unvotes BoomFrog. *Note change in tone between this post and previous posts, PW’s playstyle is much more relaxed now that we’re zeroing in on a lynch target that isn’t him.
Post 35: I’ll hammer, my role is not that good.
Post 36: But perhaps I am!
Post 37: Vote Madge because she asked. *** Important, this is the edited post.
Post 38: Reply to someone. (look up who is he replying to)
Post 39: Reply to someone. (look up who is he replying to)
Post 40: Sheeps someone and votes jimbob. (look up who he is following)
Post 41: Why I’m on a wagon.
Post 42: Reply to plyto, why I’m not voting moody or Gamma.
Post 43: Ok, voting moody.
Post 44: How does two teams work?
Post 45: Scummy joke.
Post 46: Asks EGW to repeat his question.
Post 47: Answered. *Note Maven liked his response here.
Post 48: Bad joke, timing is scummy.

Night 1
Post 49: Rule breaking night post. This post was also edited.

Day 2
Post 50: Reply to EGW questions, confusion (note that the quote tags were messed up).
Post 51: Should I claim? Inexperience.
Post 52: Rolefishing or inexperience?
Post 53: Not sure what this is. (look up who is he referring to)
Post 54: Reply to Sabrar, possible edited post. ***Important.
Post 55: Claims previous post was not a real edit.
Post 56: Asks EGW to repeat his question.
Post 57: Rule breaking strategy. Inexperience. ***I replied to this somewhere.
Post 58: Replies, small townie pool. I like this:
Peaceful Whale wrote: I wonder if mod votes count towards getting an ability activated, if so, Madge should do that.

Is this setup spec a joke?
Peaceful Whale wrote: Anyone else think that last nights wagons are kinda weird? If scum is one team of six, I'd feel like they'd be maybe a little bit more coordinated. Maybe someone already mentioned this, but I think 2 groups of three makes more sense, or 6 groups of 1

Post 59: Doesn’t understand Amrock’s win condition.
Post 60: Amrock is screwed.
Post 61: Reply to EGW on plytho and Zyth.
Post 62: Confused reply to Red Ryu’s advice not to claim.
Post 63: Wavering observations of BoomFrog and plytho.
Post 64: If BoomFrog is scum, maybe EGW is too, maybe Red Ryu isn’t, but maybe he is, what do other’s think?
Post 65: I thought he was before so I still do.
Post 66: Real life issues. ***

Also of note:
bessie’s initial summary of plytho’s content regarding Peaceful Whale here.

Analysis, rambling, possibly poorly organized. I'm cutting myself off from rereading, rethinking, and editing this for fear it will suck up another hour. I will answer any questions, just ask.

Peaceful Whale started the game with scummy content, similar to his previous game where he was scum. He asked questions on a role (suicide bomber) and later misunderstood the role a second time. My first analysis of Peaceful Whale here. Summary: Reads list is all borrowed from other players. Scum chat? Misunderstands GLaDOS, suicide bomber (similar to his misunderstandings in Refrigerator mafia).

The post quoted at the top of this post by EGW did influence my thinking, since EGW did not know PW. PW was not being coached in day chat. Further thinking, it’s pretty unlikely all scum!Peaceful Whale’s buddies were lurking, so unless we have multiple very small scum teams (still a possibility), Peaceful Whale did not have a chat buddy on D1.

D1, I felt BoomFrog and Maven89 were giving Peaceful Whale way too much town cred. I commented on BoomFrog/PW here. Possible theory on BoomFrog was that as a parent, BF has patient fatherly instincts, which is reflected in his attitude toward PW, and BF is just trying to help a kid out (I am not a parent of a human child so this is speculation on my part). I don’t know Maven, but he has since flipped town, and his content was good enough to get him killed, so that also lends credibility to the town read Maven had on PW.

I felt plytho was possibly scum buddies with Peaceful Whale, but more likely plytho was trying to keep him alive because he wanted him around at endgame. He started defending PW early in the game I pointed this out three instances here. More here. Reasons for scum wanting to keep PW in the game were given somewhere, I can’t find the post(s). Something like this: (1) PW is a scumbuddy, (2) PW is scummy and an easy setup for a mislynch, (3) PW is a newbie and weak player, and would be easy to manipulate or would make the wrong decision at endgame. My lean at the end of D1 was to #3.

N1 I was ready to cut him loose for the night posting and subsequent editing of that post. From my N1 notes:

Peaceful Whale - Defensive and nervous whenever he gets a vote, generally unhelpful when suspicion shifted elsewhere. Trying too hard to stay alive. Serious liability at endgame, even if he is town, for the following reasons:
1. Scummy, easy mislynch.
2. Easily manipulated.
3. Unreliable reads.
4. Rule breaker. Peaceful Whale, you received a punishment for editing a post. Then you broke the rules again and posted in the night cycle, earning a second penalty. Then you edited your post again. This is your third game, and the third game where you broke the rules.

D2 read of Peaceful Whale, newbie town. He was too eager to claim night action results. To his credit, he listened to others and backed off claiming. He’s trying, and he’s making an attempt to answer questions directed at him. My assessment is that there is just too much for him to keep up with and he doesn’t know where to start with creating his own content.

Current lean: Town, was hoping to keep him in the game, and hope his content would improve as the player list became more manageable. Because of his RL issues, my opinions might be N/A. So why devote so much of my time to this post? Well, I didn’t think it would take so long. And Evil George Washington asked me. Also, I feel that it has been (will be) somehow useful to me in evaluating others’ content.


And now there’s another page with walls-o-plenty content since I started this. Back in a bit.

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LaserGuy
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby LaserGuy » Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:32 am UTC

Spak's return is a little weird. Like he expected BoomFrog to be the lynch without actually reading the thread.

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Madge
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Madge » Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:53 am UTC

Bessie wrote:Madge, this is quite suspicious. There has been a good deal of discussion today trying to figure out what to do with LaserGuy/Amrock, and your claims were an important part of the strategy. So now, on the weekend where there is usually low activity and you also conveniently aren’t going to be around, when we are trying to finalize a strategy, you just now read your message carefully and “discover” you may have misinterpreted something.

I would be a little less suspicious if you did not do the exact same thing on D1 with your assurance that you would be on line to cast the hammer vote, then a few hours before deadline you back out because you reread your role.


What actually happened was I realised that people were starting to rely on my testimony and with Sabrar's post about judgement votes causing GLADOS to boom being a really weird/suspicious mechanic, I decided to double check because I figured if it went off different to how I said there'd be hell to pay. Then I realised that the langauge in my PM spoke of "lynch sequences", which in contextI thought included judgement votes but if Sabrar thinks it doesn't make mechanical sense, but because the PM wasn't specifically laid out I asked for clarification which the mod has refused to give. So I am sorry if this isn't what you wanted but given I misinterpreted the PM what was I meant to say?

Also if you go back to D1 you can see that I said "shit if I cast hammer I become a tree stump, can someone else hammer? if not I will hammer and tree stump myself". I was willing to wear the consequences of my forgetfulness, but tried to give town a better outcome by not tree stumping myself.

GE Claim: It seems like a reasonable enough role, I'm not an expert on OS's modding so I'll defer to smashboards if they think it's ridiculous and would never have been used.
I'm writing a supernatural romance novel, it updates the first weekend of every month. You can find it here.

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bessie
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby bessie » Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:17 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:Aside: LaserGuy seems unnaturally sure about his reads and that constitutes his main argument against EGW. I disagree with plytho that this is a town-tell, I simply can't understand how LaserGuy could be so certain about all of his reads being right.
I used to think this was a scum tell too, because, well, he’s usually scum (4/6 completed games). But he’s (somewhat overly) confident as town too. It’s a tough call as to whether or not this is more pronounced as scum than town because smaller town data sample (number of town games is low, and he died early as town).

Gamma Emerald wrote:Fine. Because town can't tell it's head from it's ass from a scum-motivated push I'm claiming. I'm Geralt of Rivia, Town Bounty Hunter. Each night including n0 I get a name as a bounty. If I lynch them I get a one shot power. My names received are jimbob n0 and FrozenFlame n1. THIS is why I voted FF over anyone else when I voted him day 2: I wanted to earn my power. It also partially explains my vote on jimbob, which was also because I was just not comfortable voting moody and I sure as hell wouldn't vote myself.
If Gamma Emerald is telling the truth about his win condition, my gut reaction is that he is not pro-town, because I still think that if your win condition involves eliminating town, you are not pro-town. (I have been having this argument with jimbobmacdoodle for almost two years, since Draculafia. Mentioned by me in this thread here.) I’m still pissed off we had a town lyncher in Shakespeare III, and I think that role was a mistake.

Spak wrote:
Red Ryu, don’t be so quick to brush off LaserGuy’s content. If he wrote it before he got his role pm, it’s useful because it’s written from the point of view of not-mafia.

This is something that I hadn't considered before... It's impossible to tell if the content is coming from a town!LaserGuy's perspective because he had no mod-confirmed info by this point. That's a useful tidbit I hadn't considered about sub-ins before.
I have since been corrected by LaserGuy. He claims he made the notes in this post before he got his role, but wrote the reads after he got his role.

Spak wrote:I didn't know that defending Madge was Sabrar's job.
It’s a job he seems to have given himself this game, and he’s put quite a lot of time in to it.

plytho wrote:
Spak wrote:
plytho wrote:People I think possibly on that team are Gamma, Zen and to a lesser degree bessie.

Is there a reason you think these three in particular are a scumteam? (If I just missed it in my catch-up, tell me and I'll scour through prior pages).
At that point I was convinced Zen moved the lynch away from moody and scummy looking Gamma. I had a scumlean on bessie and she seemed to fit the team.
You wouldn't care to elaborate on this, would you? What connections did you see between these three players?

jimbobmacdoodle wrote: A thought that literally just occurred to me - since somebody will get lynched, what do people think about that person being the last to vote amrock as well, if they can be persuaded? Sure we lose out on a chance to get another death through the explosion (assuming it hits the last person to vote, and not something else, which we can't be certain about), but we also don't have to sacrifice a townie. Just a thought.
Haven’t we had multiple discussions on how this isn’t going to happen? Or am I mixing this up with the “hammer SirGabriel” posts I also stopped reading?

Ninja'd by Madge while I was typing this up. At first glance, I am somewhat skeptical of your post. I've misinterpreted my role pm several times in the past, but it only affected me. I don't see how you could have thrown something out to the thread that you didn't read more carefully.

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Gamma Emerald
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Gamma Emerald » Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:21 am UTC

Bessie can you not actually read for shit?!?!!? I'm TOWN you imbecile.

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#HBC | Zyth
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby #HBC | Zyth » Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:35 am UTC

Evil George Washington wrote:I'm just curious because we had an extended night and I would have expected more of a case on Spak by then (since you voted Spak early D2 but didn't do much with it).

You shouldn't expect this just because it is how you chose to spend your time. I wanted a ****ing break during the Night. I've already spent an an unhealthy amount of time on this game. And I had no idea what to expect coming into the day. I wasn't going to spend my time typing up an essay, only for it to be rendered useless due to night kills.

Get over yourself Ran. I'm getting sick of you policing my activity every single game . And misreading me for it. That's the annoying part, is that you don't learn. I've been putting so much effort into this game (though apparently not in the way that Lord Ran desires), so it's getting evermore difficult not to take your [star][star]it read of me personally. I can't even tell you how much will power it has taken for me to limit the vulgarities in this post.

Also talk to me about why you decided to post that you'd not post until day of deadline, and then came back before then.
I knew I was going to be gone for a few days and wasn't entirely sure when I'd be back. I wasn't exactly sure when the deadline was when I made that post and couldn't be bothered to check. I was just going to check at sometime in the next couple of days and make sure that I'd be able to be on during deadline.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby #HBC | Zyth » Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:43 am UTC

Gamma Emerald wrote:Bessie can you not actually read for shit?!?!!? I'm TOWN you imbecile.

What is this even.

Image

Is there more to your role or is this just scumGamma WIFOMing a partner connection?

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#HBC | Red Ryu
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby #HBC | Red Ryu » Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:49 am UTC

I’ve been at a wedding will get to this tomorrow.

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Gamma Emerald
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Gamma Emerald » Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:51 am UTC

btw Madge made a post copying a lot of plytho's reads and no one called her out, while a few people called me out for that behavior. What's up with that?
PEdit: what? My role is as I said: I lynch a target I get a power. Everyone is assuming I'm indie when I'm town.

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#HBC | Zyth
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby #HBC | Zyth » Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:53 am UTC

Gamma Emerald wrote:btw Madge made a post copying a lot of plytho's reads and no one called her out, while a few people called me out for that behavior. What's up with that?
PEdit: what? My role is as I said: I lynch a target I get a power. Everyone is assuming I'm indie when I'm town.

What power.

What is the significance of your "bessie frustration". What is it that you're trying to do there.

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Gamma Emerald
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Gamma Emerald » Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:09 am UTC

I'm not informed. My guess is it's semi-random out of a list. My Bessie frustration is me trying to tell them what I was trying to say because they seem to have misinterpreted.

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LaserGuy
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby LaserGuy » Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:28 am UTC

Gamma Emerald wrote:Bessie can you not actually read for shit?!?!!? I'm TOWN you imbecile.


I think if you had any hope of stopping this lynch, you probably blew it with this comment.

Please judgment vote Amrock.

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Sabrar
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Sabrar » Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:00 am UTC

@jimbob: seems to give a pass to lurkers in his read-lists but it's consistent with his previously expressed opinion about the subject. His reads are methodical and thorough as usual and they don't feel forced. My only issue with his content is that he has a lot of questions interspersed within his reads but doesn't follow up on most either to address the responses he got or to push the players who didn't answer. Possibly lack of time though, prioritizing completing the list. Town-lean for now.

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Gamma Emerald
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Gamma Emerald » Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:20 am UTC

LaserGuy wrote:
Gamma Emerald wrote:Bessie can you not actually read for shit?!?!!? I'm TOWN you imbecile.


I think if you had any hope of stopping this lynch, you probably blew it with this comment.

Please judgment vote Amrock.

I don't think so.

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Sabrar
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Sabrar » Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:27 am UTC

@Zen: she defends herself well against LaserGuy (apart from the 99.83% issue) though I still feel it a little thin that she called jimbob the strongest scum based on so little info. Defense against plytho is less good, shoving aside valid points by mocking them though she later tries to explain. Her defense against me concedes the connection points with moody but argues everything else. I feel she knew she couldn't dig herself out of that hole and instead chose to focus elsewhere.
As mentioned before I generally agree with the content of her case on Spak, but not how it is presented. I think point A is taken to a ridiculous degree as she lists a bunch of quotes in the middle that according to her contain no subjective information but I disagree with that assessment. She also projects her own views, talking about what she would do in Spak's place and finding him scummy because his playstyle doesn't match hers. Point C is also blown out of proportion, it is an indicative thing only, not a sure-way scum-tell as she puts it.
I've already spent way too much time re-reading her. She has undoubtedly the biggest connection to moody and I can't see that being a coincidence. At best she is lying Town and we cannot rely on anything she says or does but I don't think this is the case. Scum.

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Sabrar
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Sabrar » Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:33 am UTC

TOWN
Madge
EGW
bessie
jimbob
Znirk
mpolo
BoomFrog
Red Ryu
Peaceful Whale
Spak
FrozenFlame
plytho
Gamma Emerald
Zen
SCUM

Not mentioned: Amrock, h_a, LaserGuy

Top4 for completeness: Zen > Gamma > plytho > FrozenFlame

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Evil George Washington
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Evil George Washington » Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:06 am UTC

Gamma: Read on Zen, Peaceful Whale, Laserguy, and Bessie?

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Gamma Emerald
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Gamma Emerald » Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:08 am UTC

Evil George Washington wrote:Gamma: Read on Zen, Peaceful Whale, Laserguy, and Bessie?

I think I've given all of these before? Why do you want them?

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Evil George Washington
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Evil George Washington » Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:09 am UTC

I'm curious about your updated reads on them.

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Gamma Emerald
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Gamma Emerald » Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:09 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:TOWN
Madge
EGW
bessie
jimbob
Znirk
mpolo
BoomFrog
Red Ryu
Peaceful Whale
Spak
FrozenFlame
plytho
Gamma Emerald
Zen
SCUM

Not mentioned: Amrock, h_a, LaserGuy

Top4 for completeness: Zen > Gamma > plytho > FrozenFlame

Question: is that a team guess or just assorted scumreads because that would be the jankiest team guess I've ever seen.

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Gamma Emerald
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Gamma Emerald » Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:10 am UTC

Evil George Washington wrote:I'm curious about your updated reads on them.

Why would they need to update?

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Sabrar
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Sabrar » Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:11 am UTC

Gamma Emerald wrote:Question: is that a team guess or just assorted scumreads because that would be the jankiest team guess I've ever seen.
It's an ordered list from most townie to most scummy.

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Evil George Washington
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Evil George Washington » Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:12 am UTC

Reads update because reads don't remain static, reads are always changing. If nothing has changed your reads, just restate them and state why they have remained static.


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