Crossover Mafia | Game!

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#HBC | Zyth
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby #HBC | Zyth » Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:26 pm UTC

mpolo wrote:He did do everything to try to trigger GLaDOS against him, though, so maybe it's O.K.
Unless the immunity would take place before the explosion. The mod did not answer my NAR question. It would be likely that scumLaser asked this privately beforehand.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby plytho » Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:28 pm UTC

I didn't know, I thought. (and didn't have time to check just then)

It didn't make sense to me as a power to use every day. It would basically give town an extra lynch each day. That's way too powerful.

Also, if everyone thought it was daily: why didn't you try to get a consensus on LaserGuy's next target? With a daily power like that, that's the right play.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby plytho » Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:36 pm UTC

#HBC | Zyth wrote:
mpolo wrote:He did do everything to try to trigger GLaDOS against him, though, so maybe it's O.K.
Unless the immunity would take place before the explosion. The mod did not answer my NAR question. It would be likely that scumLaser asked this privately beforehand.

As I said before: the immunity refers to night kills and abilities. link
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Re: Crossover Mafia | N0

Postby LaserGuy » Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:38 pm UTC

#HBC | YOLOSWAG wrote:GLaDOS is in this game. She is a passive "bomb" -- upon detonation she will kill whoever killed her. This cannot be prevented from bulletproof, protection from abilities, or redirects.


Also this.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby plytho » Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:39 pm UTC

On top of that immunities don't work on GLaDOS

Ninja by LaserGuy with the same point.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby LaserGuy » Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:46 pm UTC

@Zyth: Why do you think scum!me would have attempted to kill you in this manner?

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby plytho » Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:47 pm UTC

After actually checking the original claim:
LaserGuy wrote:My secondary ability is Judgment, which allows for an extra lynch between only me and my chosen target.
I guess I read this as one extra lynch.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby LaserGuy » Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:49 pm UTC

EBWOP: Actually, don't answer that in thread until after night phase. If I'm alive D3 I would like to hear the answer though.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby #HBC | Zyth » Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:54 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:@Zyth: Why do you think scum!me would have attempted to kill you in this manner?
For your ability you need someone you can beat. Clearly I was a viable lynch coming into D2 with the moody stuff.

What I don't understand is why townYou would edge Ranmaru on with his spak-zen theory. Or why townYou would judgement hammer over mpolo.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby LaserGuy » Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:57 pm UTC

mpolo is a PR. I'm worse than vanilla right now.

I'll talk about EGW in D3.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Peaceful Whale » Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:00 pm UTC

Still night!

Can we call it dusk, it makes more sense.
My meta for future reference
Spoiler:
cemper93 wrote:Your meta appears to be "just writes whatever is on his mind and doesn't remember what happened more than five hours ago"

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Sabrar » Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:17 pm UTC

plytho wrote:Also, if everyone thought it was daily: why didn't you try to get a consensus on LaserGuy's next target? With a daily power like that, that's the right play.
Because I think LaserGuy will die due to bomb.
Seconding the question to others though who thought otherwise.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby #HBC | YOLOSWAG » Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:28 pm UTC

Deadline is Monday, September 25th at 11:59:59 PM EST! With 18 alive, it takes 10 to lynch! https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/j ... t=sanserif

Votals 2.7
Gamma Emerald (5): Red Ryu, Frozenflame, Madge, mpolo, Peaceful Whale
Spak (10): Gamma Emerald, LaserGuy, Sabrar, plytho, jimbobmacdoodle, #HBC | Zyth, Bessie, Spak, BoomFrog, EGW
Not Voting (3): heuristically_alone, Znirk, Amrock

Judgement Votals
Amrock (7): plytho, Frozenflame, Sabrar, mpolo, LaserGuy, Spak, Gamma Emerald
Laserguy (0)

Not Judgement Voting (11): Red Ryu, heuristically_alone, Peaceful Whale, Bessie, Znirk, jimbobmacdoodle, Madge, Amrock, Zyth, BoomFrog, EGW

ENOUGH!!

no more posting UNLESS you're posting to point out I made an error in the (Judgement) votals. I'm boutta doublecheck. Flips incoming.
Last edited by #HBC | YOLOSWAG on Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:12 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Spak » Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:12 pm UTC

I think Gamma hammered judgement.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby #HBC | YOLOSWAG » Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:10 am UTC

Doublechecked.

Spak, Steve (Minecraft), Town Jailor

Image

has been lynched!

Amrock, GLaDOS (Portal), Independent Ultra-Bomb Influencer

Image

has been judgement lynched!

Gamma Emerald, Geralt of Rivia (The Witcher), Independent Bounty Hunter

Image

has died from an explosion!

Znirk, Snake (Metal Gear), Town Unwilling Voteblocker

Image

has been modkilled due to inactivity!

Yolinda has replaced heuristically_alone!

D2 ends, N2 begins. Deadline is Friday, September 29, 2017 at 11:59:59 PM EST.

Deadline Clock | FLAVAH

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Re: Crossover Mafia | N2 | 9/29

Postby #HBC | YOLOSWAG » Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:28 am UTC

Megaman has absorbed a power!

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Re: Crossover Mafia | N2 | 9/29

Postby #HBC | YOLOSWAG » Sun Oct 01, 2017 6:45 pm UTC

Peaceful Whale, Maiden in Black (Demon Souls), Town One-Use Mason Cop

Image

has been killed N2!

D2 begins!

Votals 3.1
Not Voting (13): #HBC | Red Ryu, EGW, Frozenflame, Yolinda, BoomFrog, Sabrar, Bessie, LaserGuy, jimbobmacdoodle, plytho, Madge, mpolo, #HBC | Zyth

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch! Deadline is Friday, October 6 at 11:59:59 PM EST!

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby plytho » Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:02 pm UTC

Here are some reads I worked on N2.

I tried to do a PoE:

[note: looking at the flip I'm moving bessie to the do not lynch group]

Here are the two big assumptions I’m making for this analysis/reads list. @all If you think I’m wrong to make these, please explain why:
1 There is only one scum team
2 Scum did not want to lynch one of their own D1.

The first assumption means I assume all scum to be on moody’s team. The second assumption means I believe scum made sure at least one of the wagons is not on one of them.

From these assumptions I conclude that Sabrar, Evil George Washington and jimbobmacdoodle are town. Sabrar and EGW were instrumental in moving the wagon from jimbob to moody (and not Gamma for example). Jimbob and moody being on the same team only works if you think scum wanted to lynch one of their own. Otherwise they would have driven another wagon, there was at least one viable non-mafia wagon in Gamma.

These three are in my do not lynch pool until my assumptions are proven wrong. @all If you think I’m wrong about my assumptions leading to these conclusions about Sabrar, EGW or jimbobmacdoodle, please explain why.

Peaceful Whale is another member of the do not lynch pool. His eagerness to share things and prove he’s town is very similar to his town game (where he copy/pasted his role pm) . That eagerness wasn’t there in the fridge in fact he didn’t talk about his role the first few days. Reading through his fridge game he seems a lot more comfortable there. That makes sense because as scum he’s aware of the setup and isn’t anxious about who he can or can’t trust. He’s aware he’s not good at scumhunting but that didn’t bother him in fridge, since he didn’t really need to do that there, he could just pretend and being wrong wasn’t bad. He does need to actually scumhunt here and he needs to get it right,that’s a hard thing to do. It seems easier to just share your role and night results. I don’t think PW would fabricate that and I don’t think his scumbuddies would encourage him and feed him a fake claim/fake results. PW is a liability to scumbuddies, they’d try to keep him quiet.

LaserGuy is my next member:I’m less adamant about him. For these analyses I try to look at what players do rather than what they say. What LaserGuy did is choose to use his judgement power on Zen. He also chose to be the possible hammer on amrock. We now know that the hammer on amrock did indeed die from the explosion so either LaserGuy didn’t know and was happy to die for town (plausible given his claim). The other possibility is that scum!LaserGuy was aware that the hammer would explode and planned to jump at the last minute which would result in his lynch the next day (not that plausible).

I think scum would use LaserGuy’s power at a point when LaserGuy had earned enough town credit to ensure his survival. Using it at this point is a risk for scum because mislynching this way puts LaserGuy under a lot of scrutiny D3. Sabrar mentioned that using this power at this point is weird because LaserGuy wasn’t at risk for the night kill. The night protection isn’t the main use of this ability. The extra lynch is. Using it early is better for town. The first few days a mislynch is informative. In the last days a mislynch could lose us the game.

Choosing Zen as his target isn’t necessarily townie. I do think it means mpolo and LaserGuy can’t be scum together. I don’t see a reason for scum to help clear up GLaDOS. As I already said ad nauseam: scum likes town sacrificing on GLaDOS and wasting a lynch on it. Giving town an extra lynch to clear GLaDOS makes no sense for scum. I also said befor that I think Zen and LaserGuy can’t be scum together. This ties in with my second assumption. I don’t think scum is deliberately trying to lynch team members for town credit. But back to the choice for Zen as the target: who would scum pick at this point and why. Scum would need to choose a scummy looking townie and have a strong enough case to carry to lynch. I think scum would have built that case together. LaserGuy’s case on Zen isn’t that, that seems pure LaserGuy.

Madge: I don’t know about madge. Sabrar and BoomFrog have allowed her to be at a place where she doesn’t need to really participate in the game the way the rest of us need to. This is a very nice place for an indie, particularly in a game this size. Just look at how hard it was for Gamma to pretend to care about scumhunting. I do think the clumsiness around the tree stump bit indicate town rather than indie. Madge isn’t scum she’s a harmless indie at worst.

Hmm, maybe not entirely harmless. Both the flipped indies claimed survivor as a secondary wincon. But town Madge still has some time to prove herself by getting results from her flip and claim analysis in these later days with fewer players.

I’m definitely not looking at madge when trying to find moody’s buddies.

Above are the people I really don’t want to lynch today. Below are the people I might want to lynch.

I’m not very comfortable ordering these people at this point:

Yolinda: I had a town read on heuristically_alone but that’s a while ago so I’m starting at null here.

Red Ryu: I have trouble pinning a read on Red Ryu. This read is still pretty much where I’m at on Ryu.

Frozenflame: FrozenFlame has been buddying me all game. I’m not entirely sure why. In this post he’s wrong about my second quote. The moody wagon was at 7 votes at that point. But if all I can say against him is that he made a mistake in my town read (and was on the wrong wagon D1) he may not be all that bad. I notice he disappeared for 4 days.

Mpolo: Not an easy call, he’s definitely not sticking his neck out on anything. Like moody, not one to ask questions, but mpolo’s content feels better than moody’s. He’s kind of staying under the radar, happy to clarify things and say what he thinks about people. His reads lists aren’t very good. I guess I get an active lurky vibe from him.


BoomFrog: He’s the only one that was in a good position on the moody wagon that I don’t really trust. I don’t like his grouping of me and LaserGuy in a one-of-these-two-is-scum couple. It feels like a setup for a double mislynch. (similar to what Zen wrote about me and bessie) BoomFrog’s reasoning on me and LaserGuy is weaker than Zen’s reasoning on me and bessie:
BoomFrog wrote:LaserGuy and plytho - They both are going after all the wrong people for all the wonderful reasons. But LaserGuy is also willing to go for plytho. Either one is town and one scum or both scum but different teams. If I had to pick now I'd say LaserGuy is scum plytho is town. But I'd need to reread before lynching either of them.
I’m also suspicious of him for town reading Gamma.

Bessie: I want to avoid bessie misunderstanding me again so I’ll keep this short and won’t ask any questions. this reads list is terrible. Look at the bottom 6. There’s 2 inactives, Madge, 2 indies and me. Btw I’m also an indie according to bessie. LaserGuy pointed out EGW’s reads list looking bad but bessie’s looks worse I feel. So I’m still leaning scum on bessie. I feel town bessie would produce better reads. Her tunnel on me feels mostly OMGUS. Her points against me are rolefishing and active lurking + keeping her from spending time on more important things. Bessie: I won’t talk to you D3 and there will be , I look forward to your improved reads.


Zen: His claim about his hidden message is inconsistent with Sabrar’s claim. He still hasn’t clarified what his plan was with the jimbob wagon: serious attempt to lynch a serious read or a weak attempt to tempt scum. He hasn’t drawn any conclusions except that spak was suspicious for not being on either wagon D1. I don’t like him calling one of me and bessie scum. It’s an easy way to a double mislynch if we’re both town. Our interaction isn’t necessarily TvS. Btw, this quote from Zen
#HBC | Zyth wrote: if gamma is not mafia, laser's reasoning here is classic mafia: get townie points for defending against the mislynch, then have an excuse to push everyone on the wagon. another multiple mislynch path. am i the only one that has gotten this vibe from the way laser has gone about this wagon?
applies to Zen’s town read of Gamma as well. I’m torn on Zen because a lot of what he posts is so good but some stuff keeps pinging me. It’s hard to accept that ambiguity as a play style (especially if we can’t count on clarification after the fact) because clarity helps town and ambiguity helps scum. Zen hasn’t provided his case on bessie yet. He wanted to wait for D3. How convenient if scum happens to lynch town!bessie. That way he doesn’t need to make a case and can just push for my lynch.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby plytho » Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:03 pm UTC

Other thoughts:

Too bad we mislynched spak but overall we’re doing pretty good. Presuming one town is nightkilled we have 3 nontown dead and 4 town dead. We’re almost matching scum (non town) one for one. Which is quite good. If it weren’t for the modkill of Znirk we’d be matched.

I’m assuming the game will become more manageable now with 5 :shock: dead from D2 to D3.

Fun triangle: LaserGuy thinks I’m scum, I think Zen is scum, Zen thinks LaserGuy is scum
Reverse: I think LaserGuy is town, Zen thinks I am town, LaserGuy thinks Zen is town

I have the feeling that at least some of the people town reading Gamma were scum. Gamma was absolutely not acting townie. But scum has the inside knowledge that Gamma isn’t on their team. That means he looks townie to them. They know he isn’t scum and they think they can win townie points by accurately reading him as town. Too bad for them he flipped indie.

Something that hasn’t been addressed but has me slightly worried: what kind of ability could a wraith have?
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Sabrar » Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:44 pm UTC

Tinkered with the read-lists provided, basically assigning 1-13 ranks from most townie to most scummy, calculating averages, standard deviation, correlation, stuff like that. Had to guess in certain cases but overall I'm comfortable with the results. Missing info from Madge, PW, Yolinda. Only looked at still alive players, I think detailed content rather than simple numbers will prove more useful when determining connection to dead ones.

Average rank:
Spoiler:
EGW 2,3
Sabrar 4,6
Madge 5,45
PW 6,36
bessie 6,4
jimbob 7
BoomFrog 7,5
Laserguy 7,5
mpolo 7,7
Red Ryu 7,8
plytho 8,3
FrozenFlame 8,5
Zen 9,2
Yolinda 9,36
Players with smallest standard deviation (generally placed at the same spot): Yolinda, mpolo
Players with highest standard deviation (most divisive placement): Zen, plytho
Players with negative average correlation (going against consensus thinking): LaserGuy, Zen
Players with lowest maximum correlation (not being influenced by any other player): Zen, bessie
Highest correlation between players (likely to be on same side?): Sabrar-mpolo and Sabrar-jimbob (interestingly correlation between jimbob and mpolo is much lower)

Also upon reread I came to the conclusion that unfortunately LaserGuy is probably Town. Unfortunately, because he is extremely sure in his lazy reads and that can lead to huge trouble when he gets them wrong. His actions however show no sign of self-preservation.

@LaserGuy: you had me solidly Town here and almost neutral here without interacting with me in the slightest between the two. Why?

Madge wrote::evil: I am going to work out a way to fix my meta so that way it won't out me when i'm scum!! THEN I will be laughing.
You're oversharing. I think it was absolutely justified regarding your role but usually you don't need to shout out every little thing that you know or that happened to you. Take a few minutes to think through the implications given the actual state of affairs, sometimes not giving scum info has a better value.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby Sabrar » Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:54 pm UTC

plytho wrote:Something that hasn’t been addressed but has me slightly worried: what kind of ability could a wraith have?
Google is your friend.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Sabrar » Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:07 pm UTC

Peaceful Whale wrote:Sabar, doesn't wrong about Bessie, hunt actual scum!

Edit: oops, it's important I fix that error.
Sabar, doesn't worry about Bessie, hunt actual scum!
Peaceful Whale wrote:Towniest players
Me,
Bessie
Peaceful Whale wrote:Also, I feel Bessie is town.
bessie wrote:town
bessie
Peaceful Whale

Pretty sure PW mason-copped bessie.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby plytho » Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:10 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
plytho wrote:Something that hasn’t been addressed but has me slightly worried: what kind of ability could a wraith have?
Google is your friend.

Thanks, I'd googled "wraith" but not the actual character.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby Sabrar » Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:26 pm UTC

plytho wrote:So I’m still leaning scum on bessie.
Any comment to the above?

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby bessie » Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:29 pm UTC

N2 thoughts. Here’s some things that I hadn’t yet replied to ( last post of replies was Sunday night, p 43).

plytho wrote: Well, that's it, I give up. Bessie, you can expect a giant pm after the game where I document you misunderstanding me in just about every single thing you said to me this game. I don't think there's any use in us talking to each other until we resolve that because the same thing will keep happening.
plytho’s not speaking to me anymore. That’s a very townie attitude.

LaserGuy wrote:
plytho wrote:Another thing we agree on! Zen, is using the LaserGuy playbook here: he's so confident that one and only one of me and bessie is scum so scumreading me is enough to entirely clear bessie.

Remind me to come back to this comment if I'm alive D3.
It’s D3 and you’re alive.

Re Zyth’s read of me here, I didn’t have time to respond before work.

#HBC | Zyth wrote: i feel like bessie has been surfing over me much of the game. and i agree that the lack of interactions she's had with me is weird.
I’ve been seriously pondering this comment the past couple of days, because Evil George Washington said something similar, that I don’t interact with him. I have decided that I am quite puzzled as to exactly what kind of interaction you are both expecting, because I feel that I have done my best to answer your questions and interact with both of you. So I think that perhaps this is just a meta difference between how we all approach the game.

#HBC | Zyth wrote: ive even intentionally dropped little things here and there to see if she would respond to them on her own (such as the point about her asking for claims).
Is there anything in particular you would like me to respond to? I’ve become lost in the plethora of content. If I didn’t respond to something I missed it, meant to respond and forgot, or deliberately ignored it and if you want to point something out I will tell you which one it is.

#HBC | Zyth wrote: plytho made a lot of good points on bessie too. people should read it.
Agree with the second sentence. People should read plytho and me in isolation. Then make their own decision on the first sentence.

#HBC | Zyth wrote: bessie has also surfed over a number of other ppl. the big ones being spak and jimbob (though i can't blame her for the latter, jimbob is a tough one to dig into). she has kept herself at a distance from those three (zen, spak, jim) all game. this despite jim having been one of her main scum reads (d1 in particular). ive been waiting all game for her analyses of these slots. and every time i think she's gonna do it, she just kind of glances over them. this makes me feel that scum!bessie is having difficulty faking reads on these slots. she's also having difficulty fake hunting. she has not really made any real pursuits to unpack her scum leads (such as jim and plytho).
You forgot to mention that I surfed over Sabrar. And I feel made enough points on jimbob spread out over D1 to justify my vote (I just did not compile them into a single post), not as many D2 but he didn’t ask me many questions. And seriously do you not see my issues with plytho? Most of my D2 content was related to him.

#HBC | Zyth wrote: furthermore, plytho was actually in the right in the whole bessie v plytho thing. although plytho's "we gotta make sure protectors see it" thing was pretty wack, it didn't make much sense for bessie to react the way she did towards plytho when he pointed out her not mentioning pws claim. she could've easily told pw not to say any more and make clear to plytho what he concerns were. instead she just talked around it until finally coming up with an answer d2. this to me is one of the weaker points on bessie though because it's possible she reacted this way due to her past experience with plytho. that past experience could've caused her to misread the situation here.
No. plytho was fishing for setup information. And from my point of view, (1) it made perfect sense for me to react the way I did, (2) it did not make sense for me to reveal my concerns by telling plytho what they were, and he went on to fish pretty heavily for them anyway, and (3) it was either talk around it or say it, and I didn’t want to say it, that’s what this disagreement was about. And me misreading this is your opinion, I don’t think I’m misreading this at all. Past experience, read Refrigerator Mafia D1.

#HBC | Zyth wrote: lastly, another small point. i made it before about how she asked if os provided safe claims. yet she specially made note of having read my os mod meta post. so she either a) skimmed it and missed that i provided that info or b) pretended to miss it so she could try and "town slip". honestly this kind of makes gamma seem scummy for taking this as a town tell now that i think about it. anyway, if it is the case of a and she skimmed it, i think this also indicates scum bessie. from what has been stated in this game a number of times, bessie is big on set up speculation. for her not to have fully read that post is a huge red flag. especially since it's the very post that seemingly convinced her not to speculate about the setup, which she stated.
You have a point here. I thought Overswarm provided safeclaims, and couldn’t remember why, and it just seemed easier to ask than to dig through Overswarm’s games on Smashboards for the roles. I also forgot you said this (see here):
#HBC | Zyth wrote: Also claims should be taken as completely neutral, as safe claims are usually provided.
Note: The Kefka role in that post did not have a safe claim. Late to the discussion, but the question was supposed to be about powers anyway (check here for context). I looked through the two of Overswarm’s games on the first DGames page (Time Travelers and All Stars) and the safeclaims are role names, not powers, and mpolo and Madge both claimed powers. Similar to the Twoface role here only has a name safeclaim.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote: @Peaceful Whale - whilst you're around, would you mind saying how likely you think bessie is to be town. You do not need to explain this confidence level at this point.
BoomFrog asked Peaceful Whale a very similar question here:
BoomFrog wrote: So, if you can prove someone is town I think you should reveal it near the end of the day cycle. Don't say details about how your role works. Just say, "from my role's result I am XX% sure YYY is town."
I disagreed with BoomFrog here. Boomfrog agreed with me here.

Hmm, jimbob said this on p 39 ( see here):
jimbobmacdoodle wrote: Conclusion: There's not really all that much in PW's content. I don't like that he's had town reads on moody and Gamma, but I've also seen plenty of things that suggest to me that he wants to help, he just doesn't know how. I have a guess as to what his role is, and what he did N1, including his result, based on what I've read (and I expect others have too), although I'm not certain about it. I'm not sure that it's worth spelling out at this point though, unless people want me to. I think he might be town, but if Gamma flips scum, I'm definitely throwing him into the scum pile.
So why the end of day fishing for information from Peaceful Whale? Taking over for plytho, because he was forced to let up?

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:I'm heading to bed now. I will check in one last time in about half an hour to see if it is safe to switch my vote or not.
This is an odd thing to say. What do you mean by safe to switch your vote? Why were you voting Gamma Emerald? Did you really want to vote for Spak? You said this earlier regarding Spak:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote: Conclusion: I haven't read every detail of Spak's content, but I'm now lumping him in with my scum reads. I'd be willing to change, but I still would prefer a Gamma lynch, I think. Unfortunately, I'm not going to be around at deadline (my last chance to post will be in a bout 2 and a half to 3 hours), so I can't switch back if I go to Spak, and there isn't enough support.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Assuming for a moment that bessie and Sabrar were to vote Spak, that would require three switchers from Gamma's wagon to lynch Spak instead. I'm prepared to, but not unless others do, and/or indicate they plan to nearer the deadline, as currently, the Gamma wagon looks like a safer bet to avoid No Lynching.
So jimbobmacdoodle, who did you actually want to lynch?

BoomFrog wrote:You really think Spack is faking it? There's so many people I'd rather lynch.
Who in particular?

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Other thoughts: if Peaceful Whale is scum, so is bessie. The same does not necessarily apply the other way around.
Would you care to clarify what you mean by “the other way around”? Do you mean If Peaceful Whale is town, then bessie is _____, or do you mean if bessie is scum, then Peaceful Whale is _____? And please explain your reasoning.

Madge wrote: Uggh I hate this game so long! What's this about diary? Someone's got a diary we can read if they die? Is that's what's happening? I am going to be relying heavily on the inevitable giant tables full of everyones' claims just F everyone's I.
My feeling is that Madge is making up an excuse for not scum hunting. She is implying that she would help out if we had some results, but so far in this game she has done nothing to help town, and everything she has done is in her own self-interest. Madge made that post to appear she is trying to be helpful, but she's not.

Sabrar wrote:
#HBC | Zyth wrote:-GLadOS kills whoever hammers her.
-Madge turns into tree stump if she hammers.
-Yolo confirmed with Madge that if she is the final Judgement vote on GladOS, she will turn into a tree stump.

-Therefore, Yolo is considering Madge being the final Judgement vote on GLadOS as a hammer.
-Therfore, we can assume that ANY person being the final Judgement vote on GLadOS is considered a hammerer, and that THAT person will be killed by the explosion.

Weird. That would be such a silly mechanic, it actually makes me doubt Madge's claim. Huh.
So Sabrar, what are your current thoughts an Madge’s claim?

plytho wrote: I thought LaserGuy's ability was a once per game ability? No time to check now. Mpolo, check before you decide to take zen's advice.

Sabrar wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:This is true, though its odd you think this since I deliberately never mentioned it in thread.
There goes my assumption that it's a townie ability.
Also you used a 1-shot that could have resulted in your death N1??? There was absolutely no way you were getting NK-d.

@plytho: why the hell would you think that it was 1-shot? Quote the part that made you think so.

mpolo wrote:I third the call to plytho to explain why he knew the power was one-shot.

plytho’s response:
plytho wrote: I didn't know, I thought. (and didn't have time to check just then)

It didn't make sense to me as a power to use every day. It would basically give town an extra lynch each day. That's way too powerful.

Also, if everyone thought it was daily: why didn't you try to get a consensus on LaserGuy's next target? With a daily power like that, that's the right play.
How is this too powerful in a game with 20 players? And where the mod implied in the opening post that we would need to clear out lurkers ourselves? As to the question regarding a consensus on LaserGuy’s next target, here were some suggestions:
bessie wrote: Re: lynching lurkers. Perhaps it would be better to try to figure out a way to keep LaserGuy around for a while so he can clear out some of the lurkers for us and we don’t have to waste a lynch?

#HBC | Zyth wrote:Laser's ability should be used to take out indies and inactives.


LaserGuy wrote:
bessie wrote:Re: lynching lurkers. Perhaps it would be better to try to figure out a way to keep LaserGuy around for a while so he can clear out some of the lurkers for us and we don’t have to waste a lynch?

This is a good idea, but sadly I can't really help out here.

Interesting plytho didn’t give any indication he ever saw this when he was searching for a reason he thought LaserGuy’s power was one shot.

Scum picks at the end of N2: plytho and jimbobmacdoodle.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby plytho » Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:35 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
plytho wrote:So I’m still leaning scum on bessie.
Any comment to the above?
I made this comment in my opening post today:
plytho wrote:[note: looking at the flip I'm moving bessie to the do not lynch group]
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby Sabrar » Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:40 pm UTC

bessie wrote:So Sabrar, what are your current thoughts an Madge’s claim?
I still believe it but it's less relevant as we're unlikely to activate her anytime soon. I think that GLaDOS killing the last Judgement-voter was not logical but it is consistent with Madge's original claim. Also think that if mod gives out public info about certain roles then he should answer questions related to their interaction but that's just me.

@plytho: right, though you didn't really explain why.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby Evil George Washington » Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:38 pm UTC

I'm at work. Sabrar, can you go into the reasoning for your ranking on each player? Bessie, can I get a full reads list with reasoning? Especially on Boom, Zen, and Sabrar. I'll post more in depth at home.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:43 pm UTC

bessie wrote:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote: @Peaceful Whale - whilst you're around, would you mind saying how likely you think bessie is to be town. You do not need to explain this confidence level at this point.
BoomFrog asked Peaceful Whale a very similar question here:
BoomFrog wrote: So, if you can prove someone is town I think you should reveal it near the end of the day cycle. Don't say details about how your role works. Just say, "from my role's result I am XX% sure YYY is town."
I disagreed with BoomFrog here. Boomfrog agreed with me here.
<snip>
So why the end of day fishing for information from Peaceful Whale?
At the time, my read of your content wasn't great at all, but I was fairly confident that Peaceful Whale had copped you (Sabrar dug out the relevant quote already - the first in his list above), so I was labelling you as town. It subsequently occurred to me though that I might have been misinterpreting what Peaceful Whale had been saying about you and that he actually only thought you were town because of the well-known "bessie is always Town" point. I wanted to be more confident about this, and with Peaceful Whale suddenly reappearing, but potentially being unreliable (and theroefore a future modkill candidate), I wanted to get a more confident statement one way or the other, for my own reassurance, whilst he was around. I felt that PW had already said enough that scum would guess that he was some sort of cop or similar, so I didn't feel like there was any particular harm in digging for a greater commitment from him.

bessie wrote:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:I'm heading to bed now. I will check in one last time in about half an hour to see if it is safe to switch my vote or not.
This is an odd thing to say. What do you mean by safe to switch your vote? Why were you voting Gamma Emerald? Did you really want to vote for Spak? You said this earlier regarding Spak:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote: Conclusion: I haven't read every detail of Spak's content, but I'm now lumping him in with my scum reads. I'd be willing to change, but I still would prefer a Gamma lynch, I think. Unfortunately, I'm not going to be around at deadline (my last chance to post will be in a bout 2 and a half to 3 hours), so I can't switch back if I go to Spak, and there isn't enough support.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Assuming for a moment that bessie and Sabrar were to vote Spak, that would require three switchers from Gamma's wagon to lynch Spak instead. I'm prepared to, but not unless others do, and/or indicate they plan to nearer the deadline, as currently, the Gamma wagon looks like a safer bet to avoid No Lynching.
So jimbobmacdoodle, who did you actually want to lynch?
With so many people on the Gamma wagon, I was concerned that if I switched there wouldn't be enough people around to get a lynch on either player, hence my "safe to switch" comment. I was voting Gamma because at the time of voting I felt like he was the scummiest player. I only subsequently decided that I wanted to vote for Spak above Gamma, because having reread Spak's content and after posting my analysis, I ended up thinking about it a while and decided that actually I was leaning more towards a Spak lynch as him being more likely scum than Gamma, but not by much either way. Sorry I can't give more reasoning, but I can't remember my blow-by-blow thoughts from nearly a week ago.

bessie wrote:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Other thoughts: if Peaceful Whale is scum, so is bessie. The same does not necessarily apply the other way around.
Would you care to clarify what you mean by “the other way around”? Do you mean If Peaceful Whale is town, then bessie is _____, or do you mean if bessie is scum, then Peaceful Whale is _____? And please explain your reasoning.
At this point, after PW had posted his last comment on you, I was convinced that PW was claiming to have a cop result on you. That meant that either a) he was town, and got a truthful town result on you, b) he was town, and got an incorrect scum result on you (e.g. because of godfather!bessie), or c) he was scum, and was going out of his way to attempt to paint you as town, meaning that you were likely scum. I didn't consider d) he was scum, and randomly claiming to have copped a townie for no obvious gain as a likely play from him. So, because I'd ruled out d), if PW was scum, bessie had to be scum, while the opposite way around was not necessarily true (i.e. scum!bessie does not imply scum!PW), because of b).

@bessie, BoomFrog, I believe that should answer your question, but please let me know if it didn't.

bessie wrote:Scum picks at the end of N2: plytho and jimbobmacdoodle.
@bessie - You might have answered this previously, but do you believe that I am a teammate of moody, or do you believe that I am on a different team? Please explain your reasoning for whichever case it is.

I'm not sure that there's any purpose at this point for Peaceful Whale's mason buddy/buddies to claim, except to avoid a mislynch, as it gives us a semi-confirmed townie later on (only semi, because scum can counter-claim, at the loss of themselves), which is more useful in late game. That also means that people shouldn't deny being his mason buddy for now, to avoid scum having a greater chance of killing said buddy/buddies.

plytho's reads continue to match my own, especially in the townie sector.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby Sabrar » Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:48 pm UTC

Evil George Washington wrote:I'm at work. Sabrar, can you go into the reasoning for your ranking on each player?
I'm in bed. Do you mean my read-list from D2 or the result of the statistical analysis I did during the night?

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby Evil George Washington » Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:50 pm UTC

Your result of your statistical analysis, yes.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby Evil George Washington » Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:50 pm UTC

I also highly implore everyone to lessen the walls at this point, use spoilers if needed. Otherwise it'll make things much harder to ISO everyone. I'm clocking out now. I'll post after I get home.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby Sabrar » Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:55 pm UTC

Sure, will go into details tomorrow. But basically I just transformed the ordered read-lists into permutations of [1..13] and used some statistics to analyze the relations between them.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby Madge » Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:42 pm UTC

Thoughts: what the heck is a mason cop?

Sabrar's statistical analysis of the reads list is very interesting, thank you for posting it.

I wish I'd hammered the judgement vote because I think my powers are going to be impossible to activate, and if I manage it I'm not a player who can use them effectively because they are powers that I need to target scum with. At least hammering judgement would have made me useful in some way =/. But I digress! I'll find a way to be useful.

Anyway going to work now. I'll try to keep up with the thread. Hopefully it'll move a bit slower, the slower it gets the more I can think about it.

To everyone looking for my mythical scumhunting: wait until we have some claims and some more results than PW's probably-town cop on Bessie. I'll try to keep a table of claims and night actions up to date, if I have time today at work I'll assemble a basic one and ask people to put things from the past 50 pages that I missed into it. Then I'll try to keep it updated of new information.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby Madge » Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:45 pm UTC

Is this a mason cop: http://www.mafiauniverse.com/wiki/Communication_Cop

If so PW's town read on bessie could just be a town read. Hopefully the smashboards folk can help us identify the role's power as "communciation cop" and "alignment cop" are very different
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby bessie » Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:50 pm UTC

First and most important: Thank you Yolinda for replacing (not an easy task with 52 pages of content!).

plytho wrote: Madge isn’t scum she’s a harmless indie at worst.
How many times have we been told that general convention at DGames is that there are no harmless indies?

plytho wrote: Bessie: I won’t talk to you D3 and there will be , I look forward to your improved reads.
I know plytho’s not speaking to me, so can someone else repost this and ask plytho what he cut out of this sentence before he posted it?

plytho wrote: Zen hasn’t provided his case on bessie yet. He wanted to wait for D3. How convenient if scum happens to lynch town!bessie. That way he doesn’t need to make a case and can just push for my lynch.
Zen’s case on bessie. And you claimed these are your N2 reads. What do you mean "if scum lynches town!bessie"? When? The D2 lynch was over. If Zen posted his case on D3, then it would be posted before the D3 lynch.

Evil George Washington wrote: Bessie, can I get a full reads list with reasoning? Especially on Boom, Zen, and Sabrar.
Most of my reads were done late on D2, so will probably be unchanged. Give me a couple hours to compile and review/revise as needed, taking into account late D2 content and the flips.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote: I wanted to get a more confident statement one way or the other, for my own reassurance, whilst he was around. I felt that PW had already said enough that scum would guess that he was some sort of cop or similar, so I didn't feel like there was any particular harm in digging for a greater commitment from him.
Oh, I guess you missed my very subtle hints scattered throughout D1 and D2 that perhaps this continuing fishing being done to a newbie was a bit scummy? :roll:

And since when do experienced players ask a cop to claim a town result?

jimbobmacdoodle wrote: @bessie - You might have answered this previously, but do you believe that I am a teammate of moody, or do you believe that I am on a different team? Please explain your reasoning for whichever case it is.
I believe that plytho is scum. I get the feeling from your content and plytho’s that there is link between the two of you. I have not yet determined my setup spec. But it’s interesting how you and plytho keep pushing the “there’s only one team and we’re not teammates with moody” angle.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby Evil George Washington » Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:14 am UTC

Bessie: You noted Day 1 that you had Myself, Jim, Zen, and Sabrar in the interesting list. Day 1, you never got around to this for Zen and Sabrar. Can you explain what those [interesting things] were, and why they were interesting to you? Also, you stated my case on Boomfrog D2 re-inforced your N1 pings, but you never factored that into your read of Boom D2. What exactly pinged from Boomfrog N1, and why didn't you bring it up D2? Can you go into your reasoning for D1 Zen town?

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby LaserGuy » Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:41 am UTC

Going to try to keep from spamming the thread too much at the start of the day, so here's a few bits I wanted to reply to first.

@Zyth
Zyth wrote:What I don't understand is why townYou would edge Ranmaru on with his spak-zen theory.


Coming back to this. Here’s what I said to EGW:
LaserGuy wrote:I find it troubling, especially compared to his behaviour on the D1 wagon. This wagon, IMHO, came up a lot stronger and with a lot less resistance than the moody wagon did. Considering that Gamma is a townread for him, I would have expected that he would have been asking the plytho wagon for votes by now, or been trying to peel soft votes off of the Gamma wagon for one of the others. Or, at the other end, contemplating switching to the plytho wagon (or presenting some other alternative). Yeah, this bothers me a lot.


I actually stand by pretty much all of this. I never did agree with the idea that you were bussing Spak, but I did find that your push on Spak was lacklustre compared to what I saw in D1. You made a big deal at the start of D2 about the fact that you wanted to have a competing wagon being pushed because you felt that moody wagon was too easy. This is pretty much how I felt about the Gamma wagon. In D1 you were actively engaging people and encouraging them to support your jimbob wagon. Seriously, reread your D1 iso and look at how strong you were pushing jimbob’s wagon compared to Spak’s in D2. Your behaviour seemed inconsistent to me, so I said as much. I only had a weak town lean on you at the time, so I didn’t really feel the need or desire to defend you against what I felt was a legitimate point. I wasn’t trying to lead EGW onto you; I was telling him what I honestly felt at the time. In fact, this was particularly vexing to me because I had been thinking about voting Spak for awhile at that point. Nobody was interested in plytho or FrozenFlame and Spak was my next strongest read, but I was waiting for you to ask me because I knew BoomFrog was uncomfortable wagoning with me, and I thought he might back off if I voted for Spak unprompted.

Now, all that said, I suspect that a lot of the reason that there’s some confusion between us is because you thought I was reading you as Town much earlier than I actually arrived at that conclusion. Here’s what I think happened from our respective points of view:

Day 2 Zyth/LaserGuy Interactions, Zyth’s POV

Spoiler:
“Awesome, we hit scum. Too bad that I’m going to have to spend the whole day defending myself from townies who couldn’t see what I was doing. Oh, sweet, we don’t have to waste a lynch to get rid of Amrock. Great idea.”

“Hmm, new guy wanted to use Judgment on me instead of Amrock. Not so good. Oh geez, look at the size of that wall. He’s really gunning for me. This is gonna take awhile. Feels kinda townie though. Need to back at least one of these guys to back off before they start building too big of a wagon on me.”

“Huh, LaserGuy seems very receptive to my points.”

“LaserGuy backed off already. That seemed a bit too easy. I guess he must’ve seen where he went wrong. Okay, I’ll leave him for now, but I’d better keep an eye on him.”

“LaserGuy wants me, Boom and Gamma to move on plytho. Not sure if I’m feeling it. He jumped onto Frozen pretty quick, then plytho. Might be trying to buddy me. I’d rather go after Spak anyway.”

“Holy shit, LaserGuy just listed me, Boom, and Gamma as a possible second scumteam in response to Spak’s post. I thought he knew I was Town. He’s gotta be scum. I’m gonna nail him.”

“Yeah, LaserGuy is definitely trying to swing Ran around on me. That’s just awful. Was I wrong about Spak? I don’t think he’s buddies with LaserGuy. Okay, I’ll push LaserGuy. Probably too late to swing the wagon, but I’ll get him D3.

“Why did LaserGuy just revote Amrock? I’m lost. Must have got some info from YOLO that he’d be protected from the bomb.”

“WTF, now LaserGuy is saying I’m Town.”


Laser/Zyth Interactions, Laser point of view:
Spoiler:
“Wow, my role is awful, and all of the new guys really hate lurkers. I’ll have to come out strong or they’ll just roll me over. My scumread on Zyth is really solid though. I’ll lead with that. Actually, maybe I’d better just use Judgment today. I’m pretty sure that Zyth’s scumteam knows the entire setup, so if I don’t use it today, they might try to NK me to keep me from using it tomorrow. Okay, gonna YOLO this one. I’m a miller in a slot that nobody likes anyway. Better that I don’t survive too long.”

“Damn, my Judgment got redirected onto GlaDOS. Oh well, I had thought about doing that anyway. I guess I’m dead, but I’ll try to make sure I lynch scum.”

“I’m impressed by Zyth’s tone. He’s really making an effort to try to address the arguments against him. Never going to get anywhere with Sabrar, of course. Just like in Fridge Mafia where Sabrar tunneled me for the last half of D1 and all D2. Even though I was Town there was nothing I could do to convince him. Hmm.... If Zyth were Town, how would he go about defending this? Let me take a closer look.”

“Nobody really seems to be interested in my case at all. With three people pushing pretty hard on Zyth, I’m surprised nobody else is really pushing or trying to support him. This doesn’t feel right.”

“Zyth seems very reasonable. I’m not really feeling this and I’m not really feeling bessie either. I think I need to back off and take a little time to get a better feel of the thread. Need to go and read that plytho/Frozen section. Not really liking plytho.”

“Zyth was right, Frozen’s content is all kinds of awful. We agree on a lot of other stuff too. Maybe he’s town after all. God, I’d have felt terrible had that Judgment on him actually gone through. At least we can take out Amrock.”

“Frozen looks scummy, but nobody else is all that interested pushing him. Zyth, BoomFrog and Gamma are all reading plytho as kind of scummy though, maybe I can get them to join me on a push against him. Nobody is really pushing anyone other than Gamma right now. Getting a lot of interest from my new reads and my push on Frozen. I like the feel of this a lot better.”

“Zyth and Gamma aren’t going to help me push. BoomFrog is reading me as scummy and doesn’t want to wagon with me at all. Should have thought of that sooner. Oh well. Zyth’s case on Spak is okay, I guess, though really all of the stuff he’s saying there applies just as well, if not better, to Frozen. I’d prefer Spak to Gamma, so I might jump over to that wagon, but I should probably wait until Zyth asks me. If I move over on my own I might spook BoomFrog away.”

“Oh Spak’s back. Huh, that jets vs. sharks post is really interesting. Captures the dynamics of the thread really well. It doesn’t really feel like Town vs. scum to me though. It’s too balanced--the entire group is almost split exactly in half. Weird. If there’s two scumteams, maybe there’s one group on each side. That could explain why some players that seem townie are reading each other so differently; they’re just seeing the scum from the other side, but not the scum who agree with them.. Let’s see, on the sharks, it’s probably something like Frozen and Ryu or Frozen and plytho. Moody is more sharky, I think, so maybe him with Frozen and Ryu, then. On jet side, hmm… who are the sharks reading as scummy? Gamma, of course. A bunch of people are still pushing Zyth. And maybe BoomFrog? EGW and Spak were after him for a long time. Something like that, maybe? I don’t know. Need to think about this more. Love this idea though.”

“Zyth didn’t really like my post about the sharks and jets. Oh well. I’ll try explain it to him in a bit.”

“EGW asking me about why Zyth isn’t asking for votes about Spak. Yeah, that does seem a bit weird. He was super busy asking for votes on jimbob D1 and made all those comments about wanting to make sure that there were two viable wagons, and I haven’t seen any of that. I’ve been expecting Zyth to ask me and bessie to move our votes from plytho to Spak for awhile now. He hasn’t even tried to get Madge or PW to switch. Yeah, I see what EGW is saying. Doesn’t make sense to me.”

“Oh, wow, Zyth just posted a wall scumreading me. Did not see that coming at all. I don’t have time to deal with that right now. I’ll just respond quickly to other stuff and come back to that in a bit. Damn. Gamma isn’t going to do Judgment. That looks really bad. Ugh. Okay, might move my vote there after all. mpolo’s offered to take Judgment, but he’s a solid townread with a useful PR. I’ll just take it instead. I’ll be pissed if Gamma flips town though. Talk about a waste.”

“EGW wants my read on Zyth. I’ll put that together along with a reply to his scumread on me. His reaction seems a little over the top. Wait. Oh. Wow, I’m such an idiot. I see exactly what the problem is now.”


I only came to give you a solid townread as I was writing this post. In retrospect, I suspect that you thought I came to that conclusion somewhere around here and was soft-pedaling my read... which, if that is what you thought, I certainly don’t blame you, but you ended up giving me too much credit for cleverness that I don’t actually have.


------

@bessie:
Spoiler:
bessie wrote:town
bessie
Peaceful Whale
Evil George Washington
LaserGuy
#HBC | Zyth
Sabrar
mpolo
#HBC | Red Ryu
FrozenFlame
BoomFrog
jimbobmacdoodle
Spak
Znirk
Madge
heuristically_alone
Gamma Emerald
Amrock
plytho
scum

Bessie, I see a lot of people at the bottom of your list that aren’t mafia reads (eg. indies/inactives). Who do you believe is actually mafia? Why did you make your list this way after you agreed with me here that making your list this way can be deceptive? Did you ultimately agree with EGW that Znirk/heury were likely mafia?

Post flip note: I see someone else made this point. Would still like the answer. I also assumed that PW had copped bessie based on his crumbing, though I had figured him to be some sort of weak cop/hider variant that would die if they targeted mafia.

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bessie
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby bessie » Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:34 am UTC

Updated reads, some of it copied from D2 but I tried to revise what I could (concentrated on BoomFrog, Zen, and Sabrar per EGW’s request). I did not copy when I made no modifications to my D2 read to cut down on the wall. EGW, I will work on any further unanswered questions in this post separately, it might need to wait until tomorrow.

BoomFrog
D1, I felt BoomFrog and Maven89 were giving Peaceful Whale way too much town cred for the wrong reasons (my evaluation was that PW was posting what he thought he needed to post to look townie). I commented on BF/PW here. I also feel that D1 BoomFrog gave Madge too much town cred for her claim (but that I understood giving mpolo town cred for his claim a little more). BF claims plytho is setting off his scum detector here and his later read of plytho is scummy for no scum hunting. Rolefishes Peaceful Whale here:
BoomFrog wrote: So, if you can prove someone is town I think you should reveal it near the end of the day cycle. Don't say details about how your role works. Just say, "from my role's result I am XX% sure YYY is town."

Boomfrog backed off PW here. He asked me to read moody on D1, then used my read as an excuse to make a scum lean on me, then accepted my explanation for not wanting to lead a lynch on moody based on my read. I’m still not completely satisfied with the whole interaction, as I feel that someone that knows me and moody should have seen my reasons without multiple explanations, I always had a nagging suspicion that he was just testing the waters with a scum ping for a possible later attack.

Evil George Washington
I need to reread him and improve on my D2 read.

FrozenFlame
I need to reread him and improve on my D2 read.

#HBC | Red Ryu
I need to reread him and improve on my D2 read.

#HBC | Zyth
I can’t find it now, but I think that on D1 Zyth and Maven (and maybe mpolo) were the only ones that tried to actively discourage Peaceful Whale from claiming and/or explain why he shouldn’t. Wait, found it:
#HBC | Zyth wrote:@Peaceful Whale

It would have been strategically optimal for you to have kept your role secret. It's best if you choose yourself who to use it on, so that scum can't predict your target.

Devotes a lot of time to trying to explain differences between xkcd and DGames meta here. My current thoughts are that some of disagreements he has had with myself and others may be due to play style differences. I go in to this a little more in my response to Zyth’s read on me in this post. I think that Zyth (and EGW) and I are not on the same page regarding the way we interact with others and how it affects our reads. But I hope that they both respond to that post because I would like to understand better what they expect of me.

jimbobmacdoodle
I was suspicious of jimbobmacdoodle on D1, reinforced by plytho’s remarkably fanatical opposition to lynching him on D1. jimbob posted a lot of content on D2, I can’t immediately recall anything that really stands out to me, so I moved him up on my town-scum list here. My gut read was that plytho was somehow tied to jimbob , but the opposite was not necessarily true. Then very late on D2, jimbob takes over fishing for information from Peaceful Whale from plytho, see my analysis of this fishing and why it is suspicious here. I am awaiting a reply to further questions posted here.

LaserGuy
It’s been said (by others and by me) that LaserGuy is confident in his reads. I used to think this was a scum tell (but he’s usually scum, 4/6 completed games), however he’s (somewhat overly) confident as town too. It’s a tough call as to whether or not this is more pronounced as scum than town because smaller town data sample (number of town games is low, and he died early as town). I believe he is town, as I can’t see that he would have used his power on his first game day as scum, when there was a chance that he would be judgment lynched instead of Zyth. I should have reread him N2, but I didn’t.

Madge
Right from the start of the game Madge gave excuses for not scum hunting. She made claims, and changed them after she reread her pms more carefully (D1 was the late treestump/hammer revelation, D2 was the Amrock voting thing). She let Sabrar defend her (and to a lesser extent BoomFrog), and I think she’s been uncharacteristically lazy in her contributions because she believes Sabrar will not allow her to be lynched. I don’t see where the self depreciating “oh I suck at reads its better for everyone if I don’t even try” attitude is coming from. She’s not a dunce, she’s incredibly clever, and I even said in my D1 read that town!Madge is a good person to have around at endgame because she will probably puzzle everything out.

I tried to give her a hint that I thought that the townie thing for her to do was to try to save LaserGuy in this post.
bessie wrote: I don’t think that’s the reason scum probably isn’t going to kill you. I think scum is probably not going to waste their kill on someone who has absolutely no interest in scum hunting.

Re: lynching lurkers. Perhaps it would be better to try to figure out a way to keep LaserGuy around for a while so he can clear out some of the lurkers for us and we don’t have to waste a lynch?
I was wondering why she didn’t pick up on this, but thinking about it N2 I’m wondering if perhaps I misunderstood the Tree Stump role (I have never seen it before). I was thinking that Madge could absorb the kill instead of dying, then she could still play, just not vote (does she still count in the number of votes needed for hammer? I thought she didn't.). Can Madge or someone clear this up? I think Madge claimed that she becomes a tree stump if she causes someone’s death by hammer (hmm, how else would she cause a death?). If Madge is killed, does she also become a tree stump?

mpolo
I need to reread him and improve on my D2 read.

plytho
Town. No, just kidding. He’s scum.

Rolefishing Peaceful Whale since D1. Arguing with me about it most of D2. Later on D2 he started to push a connection between me and Zen (read his case here). This is based on lack of interaction between me and Zen. See this post for my comments and open questions regarding that interaction. His scumhunting is focused on finding partners of moody. plytho keeps trying to tie me to moody from D1 vote analysis (also tried by jimbobmacdoodle).

Sabrar
I still feel he is over defending Madge. I see where Sabrar was coming from with his early support for Madge, but I think he really needs to reevaluate her content. Even when he made a comment that he doubted Madge’s claim, he later came back to his steadfast belief in her.
Sabrar wrote:
bessie wrote:So Sabrar, what are your current thoughts an Madge’s claim?
I still believe it but it's less relevant as we're unlikely to activate her anytime soon. I think that GLaDOS killing the last Judgement-voter was not logical but it is consistent with Madge's original claim. Also think that if mod gives out public info about certain roles then he should answer questions related to their interaction but that's just me.
Note that he changed the subject from the truthfulness of her claim to the unlikelihood of activating her power. I think that Sabrar is just too stubborn when he has a soulread. We have had this argument before.

His content has been exactly what I expect from town!Sabrar, except for the (for him) low quantity of posts. He is usually the player that drives much of the content, but he hasn’t needed to take on that task in this game. I’m expecting him to ramp it up today though, as we now have some filps and might have some investigation results to work with.

I’ve been pondering the following quote for several days, and I just keep pushing it down in my notes.
Sabrar wrote:
FrozenFlame wrote:We definitely still need to thin the herd of the lower impact players who will be impossible to read in lategame if we let them coast. Sure it's possible that Zyth bussed moody but even if he is scum, it's not all bad letting him live another day phase or two to force him to lay more paper trail before we get his flip.
I don't understand where you're coming from. When has it ever been a good idea to let scum live? Lurkers may improve with time or we could get a Cop-result on them, eliminating the need of wasting a lynch on them. Meanwhile we'll definitely have to lynch scum, especially now that Vig is dead and Judgement is likely to be dead as well.
This is pinging me, though I’m not sure why. Maybe the subtle suggestion that a cop should use their night action on a lurker?

Yolinda/heuristically_alone
Holding for Yolinda to post.

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Evil George Washington
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby Evil George Washington » Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:49 am UTC

Bessie, is there anything you'd like to know from me?


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