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Sabrar
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby Sabrar » Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:43 pm UTC

#HBC | Zyth wrote:
Sabrar wrote:I find it strange that if Zen didn't know how the pm received by her targets was worded then why she didn't ask for clarification from the mod. Also this probably can be resolved by last night's target if it becomes a corner issue.

What are you talking about. I know exactly how it's worded.
That was very much not my impression when we talked acout it at the beginning of D2.

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Sabrar
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby Sabrar » Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:48 pm UTC

Evil George Washington wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:I'll try to post a more satisfactory answer about my read on Zen in a little while.


I want this answer now, actually. You have delayed it for quite some time.
I agree but you should also answer his question to you in the same post.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby LaserGuy » Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:57 pm UTC

@Sabrar: What's your current read of Zyth?

Evil George Washington wrote:Spak, vote yourself.


@EGW: Can you explain the logic behind asking this of Spak?

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Sabrar » Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:01 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:@Sabrar: What's your current read of Zyth?
See here. Seriously, what's with the questions I already answered?

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Evil George Washington
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Evil George Washington » Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:08 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:
Sabrar wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:My experience is that you usually are more assertive in pushing your scumreads D1. Last game you came out very strongly against me. In Shakespeare you were tunneling jimbob. In X-Men you were pushing heury (I think? Have to double-check that game). You had a scumread on moody this game, but you were quite willing to move your vote around to other wagons and weren't really pushing at moody directly. My impression was that you weren't really sold on the read until Zyth started pushing back.


In Shakespeare 2 of my reads I was very sure about turned out to be wrong. I got 1 good read in X-Men and very bad reads in Fridge. Yes, I wasn't completely sold on my read regarding moody until later.


Thanks. That's what I wanted to know.


What was your conclusion from this, LaserGuy? Did you factor this into your read of Sabrar in your reads list(s)?

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby LaserGuy » Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:09 pm UTC

Missed this one.

@LaserGuy: you had me solidly Town here and almost neutral here without interacting with me in the slightest between the two. Why?


As I alluded to in my early commentary on you, I've found your behaviour in this game to be a bit passive, which doesn't really fit together with my picture of your play. I don't find much of your content particularly memorable or noteworthy, which again, doesn't really fit with what I expect of you. So I'm being fairly cautious with my read of you for the time being, though I don't think it is at all likely you are scum with moody, so as the probability of two scumteams decreases, you look townier to me over time. (Hopefully this answers EGW's ninja).

Sabrar wrote:
Evil George Washington wrote:Sabrar: Who are your top 3 scum picks for today and why?


Saw nothing that changed my mind from yesterday, Zen for connection to moody, plytho because he feels the same as in Fridge and FrozenFlame for active lurking.


Sorry. I was hoping to get an update on your case on Zen. If nothing has changed, I'll go back to our D2 read and start there.

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Evil George Washington
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Evil George Washington » Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:12 pm UTC

I mean, did you mention that in your reads D2? Just wondering if you ever gave progression on that D2, and if i missed it, maybe you could link me/quote?

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:16 pm UTC

@mpolo - please explain your choice of targets. What was the motivation behind them?

@bessie:
Spoiler:
bessie wrote:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote: I wanted to get a more confident statement one way or the other, for my own reassurance, whilst he was around. I felt that PW had already said enough that scum would guess that he was some sort of cop or similar, so I didn't feel like there was any particular harm in digging for a greater commitment from him.
Oh, I guess you missed my very subtle hints scattered throughout D1 and D2 that perhaps this continuing fishing being done to a newbie was a bit scummy? :roll:
No, I just ignored it, as I felt I had a valid reason to look for the information. Do you think that what I just gave as a reason is not a valid reason? If so, then we'll just have to agree to disagree, because I do. What would be the scum!jimbob motivation behind doing something that would inevitably attract attention like this?

bessie wrote:And since when do experienced players ask a cop to claim a town result?
Since the cop had already essentially claimed? If the cop had full-claimed, we would expect them to report every result they took, along with reasons for targeting each player and so on.

bessie wrote:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote: @bessie - You might have answered this previously, but do you believe that I am a teammate of moody, or do you believe that I am on a different team? Please explain your reasoning for whichever case it is.
I believe that plytho is scum. I get the feeling from your content and plytho’s that there is link between the two of you. I have not yet determined my setup spec. But it’s interesting how you and plytho keep pushing the “there’s only one team and we’re not teammates with moody” angle.
At what point there did I say that there was only one team? I was asking for your opinion on the setup, although I acknowledge that I was indirectly pointing out what most players have already stated, namely that they don't think moody and I could be buddies. I wanted to understand why you felt that I could be buddies with moody, if that was what you believed.
On setup and team numebrs:
Spoiler:
Having said what I just did to bessie, I am beginning to lean towards a one-team setup, probably with about 5 players in (4 remaining). My thinking is that with 2 indie flips (and potentially more unrevealed indies), and the relative lack of power from what I can see of the flips and claims so far, that more than 5 scum might be pushing it, and I don't believe that it is likely there's asymmetrical win conditions among scum teams, unlike bessie, although I have no evidence to back this up, beyond the lack of any flips or kills etc indicating as such. I'm going to try to work towards getting a potential 5-man team together, to see if I can see one.

On Peaceful Whale's flip (Mason Cop):
Spoiler:
I'm fairly sure I've seen a mason who was also a cop described as a Mason Cop before, so I think the most likely scenario is that Peaceful Whale is one of 2 or more masons, and that he copped somebody, presumably bessie, N1. This can be clarified by any mason buddies and/or bessie, at an appropriate time (although unless there's a breadcrumb indicating as such, it had better be before LYLO).
Brief update on where I currently stand overall:
Spoiler:
Assuming 1 team with 5 scum (see above), that means there's 4 scum still out there, maybe an indie, and 8-9 town (9 if no more indies). My current reads are:
Town (in no particular order, but mostly judged based on concrete actions)
jimbob
EGW - As well as his massive attempts to generate content, there are one or two small things that have pinged me as him being likely town, such as his latest anti-wall comment, for no other reason than that I can't see why scum would bother to say it.
bessie - My gut wants to cry OMGUS, and as noted before, I'm not a massive fan of some of her other content, but really I should for now trust in PW's statement about bessie being Town.
plytho - I can't believe somebody whose reads are so in line with mine is scum. However, of these reads, he is the one I'm least certain about, mostly because so many others are suspicious of him.
mpolo - I really don't see scum claiming this D1, and also not using N0 (or lying D1 about this and risk getting counter-claimed by somebody). His N1 targets sounded logical enough. I would like more from him though.
LaserGuy - Another grudging town pick, but I don't believe that scum!LaserGuy would ever have suggested that he would take the potential Glados hit, and especially then actually follow up (prior to Spak and Gamma jumping on). At the time he revoted Amrock, there was no guarantee that either Spak or Gamma (or anybody else) would "hammer" Amrock, so it would have been an incredible risk for scum!LaserGuy to take. And unvoting at the last minute would have just sealed his lynch D3.
Madge - She was too willing to hammer the bomb D2 (see this post). I don't see this coming from scum (jester, yes, scum, no). Now that I think about it, this point also makes me doubt my possible indie read of her, unless it's a win condition that can be achieved whilst being dead (which I doubt, because indie!Madge would surely be tied to her half-lynched ability/role/thing).

I would not be happy lynching any of the above currently.

This leaves 4 scum in {Sabrar, Red Ryu, Zyth, FrozenFlame, BoomFrog, yolinda}, assuming I'm right. Of these, I've previously read the first 2 as likely town, but I need to look into them again in more depth, given how wrong I was D2 about Spak and Gamma (well, sort of wrong with Gamma). I also should look again at where people's scum reads of plytho come from, to see if I'm missing something obvious.

In addition to re-reading the above mentioned players, I also want to take another look at the wagons D1 and D2.


Ninja'ed many times over.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby mpolo » Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:38 pm UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:@mpolo - please explain your choice of targets. What was the motivation behind them?



I had Sabrar as near certain town and you in the uncertain, leaning scummy territory. I was hoping to protect Sabrar and kill you, actually.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby #HBC | Zyth » Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:38 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:something something assigning mindset
Bruh. Just because we don't list the alternatives, doesn't mean we haven't considered them. If I think something is suspicious, I state that suspicion and if I'm wrong then the player that I'm accusing can defend their self and explain their actual mindset. I'm not going to list out all the alternatives for them to just choose one. What is so hard to understand about this.

Sabrar wrote:
#HBC | Zyth wrote:
Sabrar wrote:I find it strange that if Zen didn't know how the pm received by her targets was worded then why she didn't ask for clarification from the mod. Also this probably can be resolved by last night's target if it becomes a corner issue.

What are you talking about. I know exactly how it's worded.
That was very much not my impression when we talked acout it at the beginning of D2.

You keep saying this, but you've yet to actually explain.

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Evil George Washington
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Evil George Washington » Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:41 pm UTC

LaserGuy is scum. D2 he chainsaw attacks me for pushing Boomfrog (and another townread) when he is only meta-reading Boom, while criticizing Zen for meta-reading me. His reads were lazy compared to his well thought-out opening reads. The very interesting thing is that in his opening read on me, he actually goes into my whole-play, but when he's scumleaning me, he's only going into my micro play, and deliberately ignoring the Moody flip. His predecessor lurked out an entire Day. (Which would make it reasonable for him as scum to use his ability so that he can salvage his slot) His switch to Spak is weak, and his 'thought process' I still don't understand why it made him ok with voting Spak.

Fos: LaserGuy

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Evil George Washington
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby Evil George Washington » Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:43 pm UTC

LaserGuy Context:

Spoiler:
LaserGuy wrote:
EGW: EGW is always very easy to read when he's not mafia. I don't think I really need to go into this read.

Why do you feel a meta read is appropriate here?

I was reading him as townie for most of D1, but when I went to read on iso, I encountered many, many problems with his play.


I find this very unfair as he uses meta for his read on Boomfrog, without going into his actions in thread either.

LaserGuy wrote:
EGW wrote:I think Judgement voting Amrock is a good thing to do, it deals with our problem of Sirg slot giving people double votes which would in a way, block their votes if they don't want him to win. I do think Madge should test her treestump claim though, that is very important.


How do you intend to do this? Verifying this claim would essentially kill Madge.


I find this suspect and a contradiction with his own beliefes since he suspects me partly for wanting to tree stump madge yet later in EOD he gives the same proposal.

LaserGuy wrote:I'm not loving EGW pushing pretty much only two of my strongest townreads andespecially especially his suggestion of stumping Madge. Still reading town but I'm more ambivalent about him.


This sounds like a chainsaw. He's also using meta on Boom frog, making himself out to be a hypocrite for criticizing zen for using meta on me.

LaserGuy wrote:What do you think of the fact that EGW has you as null, finding your content utterly unremarkable? Do you think that will make you any less of a liability if the two of you reach the endgame? At what point were you planning on actually playing?


LaserGuy seems to have ignored my content saying Frozen Flame would get easier to read as the game progressed. I find this to be close minded. It makes me wonder why he asked me about Frozen Flame if he isn't considering what I'm saying.

LaserGuy wrote:@Zyth: I'll try to have a big post going through your D2 content before you get back. That said, I am conflicted about how I feel about you, because even though I can find many things to fault in your play, my gut reaction is that I'm mistaken and you're Town. Hmm...

Regardless, I don't think you're the right person to lynch today anymore, so I'll go with this for now and rethink things for a bit.

Unvote


LaserGuy switches here.

LaserGuy wrote:Sorry I don't have the promised reply to your earlier content. [ZEN] Hopefully it will suffice to say that, much to my surprise, you've convinced me that you're probably Town. So, uh, sorry about trying to judgment you earlier :)


Here.

LaserGuy wrote:
Evil George Washington wrote:LaserGuy: What are your updated reads on me and Zen?


Zen is Town. I'm not going to the specifics here at all unless it becomes absolutely necessary, but he's convinced me. His case on me is wrong, but that's neither here nor there.


Yet he never goes into his read on Zen.

LaserGuy wrote:-I really didn't like this discussion between Sabrar and EGW regarding pushing Zyth. Sabrar is hardcore townie-on-townie tunneling I think (like what he did to me in Fridge Mafia and Gopher in Shakespeare). I'm less sure about EGW. His argument about Zyth bussing Spak is BS on several counts, and he didn't explain how he arrived at this conclusion very well or at all. He was behaving very strangely in the last six or eight pages.


Boomfrog and his usage of the word 'bus' when criticizing my argument is interesting. Never had I used the word 'bus' when it came to the Zen/Spak connection I saw. I did use it when pushing Boomfrog, because his actions were a bus.

LaserGuy wrote:My read on you is still fairly ambivalent. I don't agree at all with your case for Zen's play being a bus, and not just because he's Town, but also because he was working on Spak for some time. As Zen pointed out at the start of the day (and you agreed with), he hates to bus as Mafia, so I'm a little skeptical about you advancing this line anyway. Our discussion overall has made me feel a bit better about some of my earlier concerns with you. My gut reaction is I'd probably cautiously put you in neutral territory pending a full reread.


Here it is again. I feel this is Laserguy's attempt to misrepresent what I'm saying without actually trying to understand what I'm saying. This also goes along with his read on FrozenFlame, where he ignores what I say about him being read eventually.

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Evil George Washington
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby Evil George Washington » Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:49 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:the question to Spak is what I'm referring to in the above. I think that question was very good and I don't understand why you would assume that he already had an answer in mind.


It's not, he's giving him answers before Spak can come to a conclusion himself. Asking "Tell me your favorite pie. Is it Apple pie, or Peach pie?" is offering a choice and giving possible answers when the question should be "Tell me your favorite pie."

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:54 pm UTC

Update: I went back to remind myself, and I now agree with plytho's point that Sabrar and EGW were equally fundamental in the wagon on me collapsing. From an outside perspective, I could understand why people don't necessarily see this as significant (e.g. because from their perspective, I could be scum as much as moody), however, since I know my own alignment, I can say that they definitely pushed the scum wagon instead of the town wagon. I don't see why scum-buddies with moody would do this. Therefore, Sabrar joins the Do Not Lynch pile. Note: as pointed out elsewhere, this logic requires 1 scum team, and Sabrar could still be in team 2, if this is the case.

Updated group of possible scum candidates: {Red Ryu, Zyth, FrozenFlame, BoomFrog, yolinda}.

Ninja'ed again:

@mpolo - thank you. That was my assumption as to the way round you had aimed for, but why not pick your top scum candidate instead of me?

@EGW - (sorry if you already answered this, but I don't feel like trawling through your posts to find out if you did right now) what do you think about LaserGuy's initial suggestion and then follow-through on acting backup for hammering Amrock, before Spak and Gamma had voted for Amrock?
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Evil George Washington
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby Evil George Washington » Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:03 pm UTC

At the top of my head I find it null. Since I think he tried to salvage his slot I feel he was willing to risk it if scum. Possible that he could be sincerely suggesting that, as well. I think it's the former rather then the latter due to my reasoning of why I have him as scum.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Evil George Washington » Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:05 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:- I don't like LaserGuy's case on bessie, feels reminescent of Shakespeare.
- LaserGuy misunderstands things a lot


Did you factor this into your read on LaserGuy today? How do you read his push on Bessie now that you read him as town?

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Sabrar
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby Sabrar » Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:06 pm UTC

#HBC | Zyth wrote:Bruh. Just because we don't list the alternatives, doesn't mean we haven't considered them. If I think something is suspicious, I state that suspicion and if I'm wrong then the player that I'm accusing can defend their self and explain their actual mindset. I'm not going to list out all the alternatives for them to just choose one. What is so hard to understand about this.
You're not interpreting the content itself, you filter it through your pre-conceived notions first.

#HBC | Zyth wrote:You keep saying this, but you've yet to actually explain.
- You claim that you simply send 2 names and that's all there is to it.
- I claim that the pm contains a significantly different context.
- You still do not acknowledge the context I gave, despite reading through your role-pm multiple times and supposedly knowing how the pm I received looks like.

BTW did you use your ability N2? Yes/no will suffice.

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Sabrar
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Sabrar » Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:07 pm UTC

Evil George Washington wrote:Did you factor this into your read on LaserGuy today? How do you read his push on Bessie now that you read him as town?
I'm coming around to the idea that he's just simply that confident in his reads. I'll look at your case against him later.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby #HBC | Zyth » Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:18 pm UTC

plytho:

Spoiler:
plytho wrote:Zen (that's a confusing avatar):
#HBC | Zyth wrote:
plytho wrote: I didn’t forget about the prevote tally. This is the last one I could find. It has Red Ryu at 9, Gamma and moody at 7. It would have to be a very cautious team to bus moody based on that. Here are the votes at that point. 2 on Red Ryu, jimbob being one of them, 2 on moody and 3 on Gamma. EGW votes moody right after that. jimbob is next, making moody the lead wagon (and making Red Ryu less viable).

The case for jim being town based on his vote on moody is less strong than the case for Sabrar and EGW, but I still think it stands.
EGW was hard pushing moody. Sabrar was pushing moody. Boom had a 70% on moody. And I'm pretty sure moody surpassed Ruy in the prevote tally.
Yeah, but not at the point where jimbob is moving his vote to moody. Sure, it’s possible that jimbob is moody’s teammate. I rate the probability of that being the case very low and prefer to focus elsewhere.
Guess we just have to disagree here.

#HBC | Zyth wrote:
#HBC | Zyth wrote:
plytho wrote:Btw, this quote from Zen applies to Zen’s town read of Gamma as well.
No it doesn't. I never argued that gamma wasn't mafia because of his wagon, I argued that he wasn't mafia because of the way he was playing.
I’m referring to this quote:
#HBC | Zyth wrote: if gamma is not mafia, laser's reasoning here is classic mafia: get townie points for defending against the mislynch, then have an excuse to push everyone on the wagon. another multiple mislynch path. am i the only one that has gotten this vibe from the way laser has gone about this wagon?
Not the last part about the wagon, but the first part about getting townie points for defending against the mislynch and using that to push the next mislynch.
Except that doesn't make sense because I wasn't saying that people were scum pushing him. Laser was. I thought the push against him was perfectly acceptable and I never said otherwise. He just wasn't my personal choice. Laser was flat out setting up those pushing him.
You don’t have to explicitly say it before they’re lynched. You say they look townie beforehand and get townie points when they flip. That’s when you look at the wagon.
I haven't given any indication of doing this. You're jumping the gun quite a bit here. @sabrar why do you call out me assigning mindset to players when plytho has been doing it to me constantly.

#HBC | Zyth wrote:This really feels like something scumbudLaser would ask you to say in order to get the heat off him.
This makes no sense. How does this get heat off Laser?
You're trying to equate my play as being the same as Laser's, thus redirecting the point I made. Funnily enough, you're not suspicious of Laser for this. Despite the fact the he actually was setting up the wagoners as scum.

#HBC | Zyth wrote:
#HBC | Zyth wrote:
plytho wrote:He still hasn’t clarified what his plan was with the jimbob wagon: serious attempt to lynch a serious read or a weak attempt to tempt scum.
A serious attempt to lynch someone I didn't expect people to lynch. If somehow my expectations were broken and people did want to lynch him, I totally would have continued it. It was also a serious attempt at creating a counter wagon to see how things developed. I'm not sure why you think these two had to be mutually exclusive. They weren't.
I guess this is sort of what I got from your initial defense. But BoomFrog’s interpretation that you were building a fake wagon to draw scum but were always going to lynch BoomFrog had me doubting that. I also expected a stronger result from you, in a sort of “here’s what I learned from my jimbob wagon” post.
What does what Boom Frog thinks have to do with me. Take it up with Boom Frog. This is atrocious. With the last line, I'm not sure why you're judging me based on how you go about things. I've never made a wagon analysis post in my life. And just because I play in a way as to put scum in unique situations, it doesn't mean I'm gonna get something out of everything. If you want me to look over the wagon again though, I do think it's interesting that you were trying to push a gamma lynch over moody & jim.
I felt BoomFrog’s points made sense and you didn’t address them. I wasn’t trying to push gamma over moody&jim. I was voting gamma over Red Ryu and moody and didn’t care that much about any of them. Then I pushed any of them against jimbob. It happened to be moody because of EGW and Sabrar
Uh huh.



_________________

Sabrar:

Sabrar wrote:Read BoomFrog's newest content. Didn't read EGW's case yet to remain unbiased.
Like: good question to Spak, this suggests he wasn't PR-hunting before.
Don't like: strong Town read on Gamma, defending Zen, too easy switch to Gamma (switching to Spak was fine as no lynch is worse)

Maintaining my scum-lean on him, will read EGW's case next.
I don't understand read posts like this. Explain why a strong town read on gamma is scummy. Explain why defending zen is scummy. Explain what was unreasonable about voting gamma.

Sabrar wrote:
#HBC | Zyth wrote:Bruh. Just because we don't list the alternatives, doesn't mean we haven't considered them. If I think something is suspicious, I state that suspicion and if I'm wrong then the player that I'm accusing can defend their self and explain their actual mindset. I'm not going to list out all the alternatives for them to just choose one. What is so hard to understand about this.
You're not interpreting the content itself, you filter it through your pre-conceived notions first.
You keep saying this, but you've yet to show how. Why do you presume to know what goes on inside my head?

#HBC | Zyth wrote:You keep saying this, but you've yet to actually explain.
- You claim that you simply send 2 names and that's all there is to it.
- I claim that the pm contains a significantly different context.
- You still do not acknowledge the context I gave, despite reading through your role-pm multiple times and supposedly knowing how the pm I received looks like.

BTW did you use your ability N2? Yes/no will suffice.
I said I send someone the ability to send me two names. I don't send them the names. They also don't know who gave them this ability/who they are sending it to. That is all there is to it. I want you to explicitly say what is supposedly inconsistent here, because at this point you're just lying. We aren't saving this til lylo where you can just make something up. Say it now.

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Evil George Washington
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby Evil George Washington » Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:20 pm UTC

Sabrar, why haven't you taken the initiative to question Zen about the role related misunderstanding?

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby Sabrar » Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:36 pm UTC

Not going to quote on phone.

@Zen: yes, you do not send the names, I was hurrying with the post. The pm I received said that I should send 2 names that I think are scum. That context is different from what you claimed because you basically denied the pm having any context. I've already said this before and do not need to 'make up' something, thank you very much. Rest will have to wait until tomorrow.

@EGW: I didn't pressure Zen about it because as soon as a second player actually receives the same pm the situation should be clear. Of course that assumes that someone else will also receive it and Zen doesn't claim to have sent it each night to an untargettable player.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby Evil George Washington » Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:43 pm UTC

I'm interested in seeing the answer to Zen's question wrt your Boom read and the narrow mindset you talk about.

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#HBC | Zyth
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby #HBC | Zyth » Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:48 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:@Zen: yes, you do not send the names, I was hurrying with the post. The pm I received said that I should send 2 names that I think are scum. That context is different from what you claimed because you basically denied the pm having any context. I've already said this before and do not need to 'make up' something, thank you very much. Rest will have to wait until tomorrow.
So you're saying because I didn't mention the "that you think are mafia" part? Why do you think it was important for me to mention this? It doesn't change anything about my role.

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Evil George Washington
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby Evil George Washington » Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:08 pm UTC

Madge wrote:I'm surprised Sabrar didn't know that GLaDOS is stated to kill the NKer or hammerer as that was explicitly stated (I don't know where - I can't find it again - but I definitely read it somewhere!!!). He's usually so thorough. This is a huge game so easy to miss, but still... and I'm more surprised nobody has pointed that out, and that SirGabriel is being cagey about it. (Then again, I didn't actually find where I read that, but I definitely DID read it SOMEWHERE!)


Why were you surprised Sabrar didn't know about that?

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LaserGuy
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby LaserGuy » Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:06 pm UTC

Evil George Washington wrote:LaserGuy Context:


EGW wrote:I find this very unfair as he uses meta for his read on Boomfrog, without going into his actions in thread either.


Funny that in your context post you immediately miss the context. Here's what I actually said:
LaserGuy wrote:@Zyth: Here, you say that you don’t like using meta as a basis for reads. Yet in your reads list here you rely a fair bit on this type of meta as alignment indicative, eg.
EGW: EGW is always very easy to read when he's not mafia. I don't think I really need to go into this read.

The problem is not that Zyth was using a meta read. The problem was that Zyth was using a meta read after he explicitly stated that he didn't like using meta reads. I don't have a problem with people using meta reads, and I use them myself, though I'll agree that other people's meta reads aren't all that convincing without context. It has nothing to do with fairness; it has to do with consistency. If a player says "I don't like doing meta reads", and then proceeds to meta read somebody, I'm going to ask them about it.


EGW wrote:I think Judgement voting Amrock is a good thing to do, it deals with our problem of Sirg slot giving people double votes which would in a way, block their votes if they don't want him to win. I do think Madge should test her treestump claim though, that is very important.

EGW wrote:I find this suspect and a contradiction with his own beliefes since he suspects me partly for wanting to tree stump madge yet later in EOD he gives the same proposal.

Curious as to why you didn't actually quote what I said here. Perhaps because it would undermine your argument? Here's the context:
LaserGuy wrote:I would take a close look at Madge. If Gamma is an indie lyncher variant, Madge could well be an indie jester variant as some others had suggested awhile back. Though depending on how the issues with inactives are resolved and how the flips go, we may not be able to afford to lynch the indies. Lynching an indie could give scum control of the lynch if we can't get those inactives replaced. If Madge is indie, might be a good idea to stump her after all and let her get a survivor win.

To whit: You never (still haven't, as far as I can see) provided any explanation for why you thought testing Madge's claim was a good idea, and testing this claim has potentially catastrophic consequences. I outline a specific scenario where this might be a good idea--I'm not recommending stumping her just to test if her claim is true. I said we should consider in the event that we can establish with reasonable certainty that Madge is indie. From context, it should be clear that I'm re-evaluating my position here ("might be a good idea to stump her after all").


EGW wrote:LaserGuy seems to have ignored my content saying Frozen Flame would get easier to read as the game progressed. I find this to be close minded. It makes me wonder why he asked me about Frozen Flame if he isn't considering what I'm saying.

Your comment about FrozenFlame is completely vacuous and devoid of content. Every surviving player is going to get easier to read as the game progresses, and every player's alignment is going to be easier to determine by process of elimination. This isn't a read. It tells me nothing, and does not at all seem like a good reason to be keeping him around. You complain about my reads being lazy, but Jesus, this is read is outrageously lazy. You aren't even trying to figure out his alignment, aren't even considering his content at all.

EGW wrote:Boomfrog and his usage of the word 'bus' when criticizing my argument is interesting. Never had I used the word 'bus' when it came to the Zen/Spak connection I saw. I did use it when pushing Boomfrog, because his actions were a bus.

You mean this?
I agree with Zen's case on Spak, and I'm thinking he might be a better lynch then Gamma. I do think Zen + Spak are scum together and Zen was only putting the case out to make it seem like he was being productive. Now he's claiming he isn't as sure on Spak anymore.

I'll grant that you didn't use the word bus. That doesn't mean that what you were describing wasn't bussing, and you certainly never corrected Sabrar when he asked you about it twice. In fact, you push the point repeatedly.

EGW wrote:Here it is again. I feel this is Laserguy's attempt to misrepresent what I'm saying without actually trying to understand what I'm saying. This also goes along with his read on FrozenFlame, where he ignores what I say about him being read eventually.[/spoiler]


How am I misrepresenting you here, exactly? What part of the quote above is not a bus in your mind? I've taken your comment about Frozen into consideration--just that it tells me nothing about him, but something about you.

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Evil George Washington
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby Evil George Washington » Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:25 am UTC

Fair enough on the meta point. It seems like you are giving Boom a pass for just meta and you aren't actually looking into his actions this game or even this phase. Testing Madge's claim is a good idea because I think she has a chance of being Indy and have not been a fan of her play since D1. Simple as that. I don't think it is reasonable for you to expect a better read then null on Frozen Flame. You are trying to pass off active lurking from him as 'scum' when it's actually null. I used the word distancing for a reason when it came to the Spak/Zen connection. You even agree that his push D2 seemed different D1.

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Evil George Washington
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby Evil George Washington » Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:26 am UTC

LaserGuy wrote:I'll try to post a more satisfactory answer about my read on Zen in a little while.

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Evil George Washington
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D2 | 9/25

Postby Evil George Washington » Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:30 am UTC

Evil George Washington wrote:I mean, did you [LaserGuy] mention that in your reads D2? Just wondering if you ever gave progression on that D2, and if i missed it, maybe you could link me/quote?

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Evil George Washington
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby Evil George Washington » Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:39 am UTC

Hello Madge, nice to see you.

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Madge
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby Madge » Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:51 am UTC

Why do people want me to hammer? Is it just to prove the tree stump thing? I would ask to be mislynched instead (because face it, it's probably the ONLY WAY people will believe I'm town), except for the obvious fact that my mislynch would prevent a possible scum lynch. Even so, you're still effectively mislynching me because you are all talking about how useless my reads/etc are, so why make me limp through the game as a powerless tree stump? I'll still do my best because I'm 55 pages in and I'll be damned if I let a grudge hurt town, but it's not like it's going to have 0 impact on my motivation levels, you know?

Anyway, I'm happy to full claim all three of my powers if it'll stop me being tree-stumped. I'm becoming convinced that my powers will be useless in my hands anyway, and that's assuming I even manage to wield them.

Thoughts on the mason cop thing: (tldr: I think that PW was probably a mason who was also a cop, but on the off chance we don't have any more masons confirming him eventually we should reconsider that he may not have been)

Spoiler:
what does the power do? Is it a cop that tells you if the target is a mason? Or is it a cop that is also a mason? I'm worried that if it's the former we're going to trust bessie for no reason. (wait, did mpolo claim to be PW's mason buddy? I feel like someine implied that? If so that alleivates my concerns)

plytho wrote:A one shot communication cop seems like a weak power for this game.

See, I'd see that as being somewhat in line with my power - but maybe I'm just bitter. My power is better (three shot, third power is definitely better than communication cop), but realistically I'm not sure how the mod thought it'd be able to be activated.


Evil George Washington wrote:
Madge wrote:I'm surprised Sabrar didn't know that GLaDOS is stated to kill the NKer or hammerer as that was explicitly stated (I don't know where - I can't find it again - but I definitely read it somewhere!!!). He's usually so thorough. This is a huge game so easy to miss, but still... and I'm more surprised nobody has pointed that out, and that SirGabriel is being cagey about it. (Then again, I didn't actually find where I read that, but I definitely DID read it SOMEWHERE!)


Why were you surprised Sabrar didn't know about that?


...Because of all the stuff I said in the quote? Sabrar is normally thorough and I thought the "hammerer kills glados" thing was common knowledge posted in the thread. Looks like I was mistaken and I got the hammer thing from the fact that hammer count as me causing a death (via my PM), so I conflated the two (and rightly so it would seem)

======
TABLE OF CLAIMS:
Madge: Some weird half-jester (is given powers if she is half-lynched; tree stumps if she hammers a lynch)

(am I the only one who claimed? that's good I suppose, easy to keep track of - but bad for me figuring shit out, though I want to make sure everyone knows that I don't want people to take this as a request that they claim for my sake)
I'm writing a supernatural romance novel, it updates the first weekend of every month. You can find it here.

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Evil George Washington
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby Evil George Washington » Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:54 am UTC

How did you have information related to Glados in your role PM? :?:

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Madge
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby Madge » Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:55 am UTC

I have information that hammering counts as killing someone (my character is "guilty"). Glados kills whoever kills her ---> hammer is kill --> glados kills whoever hammers her, is my logic there you see.
I'm writing a supernatural romance novel, it updates the first weekend of every month. You can find it here.

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Madge
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby Madge » Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:57 am UTC

To be more specific, my character is restricted by his "guilt", which means if I ever cause a death directly (specifically including hammer), I become a tree stump.
I'm writing a supernatural romance novel, it updates the first weekend of every month. You can find it here.

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Evil George Washington
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby Evil George Washington » Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:00 am UTC

So you confused 'Glados is stated to kill NKer or Hammer' from your own role, and expected Sabrar to know that from your own PM? :?: Also, where is your D3 vote analysis? Also, what's your read on Sabrar?

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#HBC | Red Ryu
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby #HBC | Red Ryu » Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:41 am UTC

Wow 3 more pages...gonna read up when I can.

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#HBC | Zyth
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby #HBC | Zyth » Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:48 am UTC

Ran, I don't remember why exactly I started doubting my Spak read. I didn't read his posts in chronological order so it's hard to pinpoint a where. I just remember reading the post with the jets/sharks and then read his other catch up posts and liking them.

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Evil George Washington
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby Evil George Washington » Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:51 am UTC

Fair enough Zen. Let's talk.

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Evil George Washington
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby Evil George Washington » Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:52 am UTC

I don't know who that is but I like your avatar a lot better now.

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BoomFrog
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby BoomFrog » Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:55 am UTC

#HBC | Zyth wrote:What are you trying to pull here, mister. This is blatant parroting of what I said.

Lol, woof. I sincerely hadn't read your post yet.

Btw, plytho is town, I have a pretty good tell. Focus elsewhere today.

One important question for you: If the wagon on Spack and Gamma had fallen apart yesterday who do you think would have been lynched?
"Everything I need to know about parenting I learned from cooking. Don't be afraid to experiment, and eat your mistakes." - Cronos

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Evil George Washington
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby Evil George Washington » Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:03 am UTC

Boomfrog, readslist.


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