Crossover Mafia | Game!

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Madge
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby Madge » Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:55 am UTC

Writing as I read:

I think Sabrar and mpolo have answered why I said I'd rather be lynched than stumped, but to reiterate in case there is any doubt at all, as I said in my post, for me being a stump would be the least fun thing in the world, and mafia is about having fun, so for my own personal enjoyment of the game I'd rather be lynched than stumped. However I acknowledge that in order to win, I don't want to be lynched (since that stops us lynching scum), so I don't actually want to be lynched, I just want to make sure in no uncertain terms people are aware of how much being stumped would ruin the game for me. Seriously. Who was digging their heels in that? Zen? EGW? FOS on the both of ya.

and for the bloody record, I would have tree stumped myself to get that D1 lynch if it came to that. I almost wish I had so that way people could have got it through their heads that I am not lying about this. Oh me yarm Oh.

Bessie wrote:You could like, scumhunt or something, instead of continuing to emphasize your worthlessness (because I know you’re not incapable of being brilliant).


I appreciate the compliment but I need something to work with claim wise. some 60 pages of content that I suck at analysing is not going to do much for me, scumhunting wise.

@RedRyu: non helpful posting is how i roll, so if you're going to lynch me for that, so be it. It's how I'm playing RN and how I mgiht play forever (or at least until people ask me to stop because I'm interfering with their ability to have fun).

@EGW: I am not sure who the hell is saying I will normally have a vote analysis. I don't habitually do them. So I don't know why one is "expected" of me today.

EGW is being a lameo. Like what the hell are you doing, accusing Sabrar of not working hard enough on this mafia game. at the end of the day this is a stupid forum game we all play to pass the time. Maybe you have more time you need to pass than sabrar does, but I don't expect anyone to put this game at the top of their list of priorities, not even in the top dozen. The most I'll sacrifice any RL stuff to play this game will be to tell a partner to cook dinner because I have to "do my internet chores". Like, I don't think he's scummy because of that - just a general jerk thing to say and maybe down to a difference in playstyle or meta or whatever. But I don't like it. It's not part of the "welcoming" community we have here.'

Like seriously EGW you're being suck a jerk I want to vote you for being a jerk. And probably calling you a jerk is going against friendly welcoming ethos but I don't care you're being a jerk and I don't like it.

======
TABLE OF CLAIMS:
Madge: Some weird half-jester (is given powers if she is half-lynched; tree stumps if she hammers a lynch)
Mpolo: town bus driver
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Sabrar
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby Sabrar » Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:57 am UTC

#HBC | Zyth wrote:Sabrar why did you switch to Spak at end of D2? You agreed with George's zen-spak theory?
It was a combination of things, he was somewhat convincing but that wasn't the only reason.

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LaserGuy
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby LaserGuy » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:23 am UTC

Madge wrote:Madge: Some weird half-jester (is given powers if she is half-lynched; tree stumps if she hammers a lynch)
Mpolo: town bus driver


Why did you include "town" in mpolo's claim, but not your own?

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:30 am UTC

Quick check-in: I've seen the comments and questions directed at me and will reply on my lunch break.

This has been bugging me since it occurred to me last night: has Zen claimed his N2 target yet? I don't recall anything about it. If not, why not?

Also, for anyone with more time or a better memory than me, did EGW claim self-protection before or after Zen's N1 target claim?
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Sabrar
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby Sabrar » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:37 am UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:This has been bugging me since it occurred to me last night: has Zen claimed his N2 target yet? I don't recall anything about it.
She didn't.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Also, for anyone with more time or a better memory than me, did EGW claim self-protection before or after Zen's N1 target claim?
EGW claimed before.

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plytho
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby plytho » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:40 am UTC

Madge wrote:@EGW: I am not sure who the hell is saying I will normally have a vote analysis. I don't habitually do them. So I don't know why one is "expected" of me today.
It was me! Well, I wasn't really saying you normally have a vote analysis. You said D2 you were going to make a vote analysis, like I did. So I took that as one of the things you do (along with flip and claim analysis). That's why I pushed you to do one D3.

@jimbob: replying to thispost
jimbobmacdoodle wrote: I'd be interested in hearing other people's thoughts on this particular point, particularly if they are currently reading FrozenFlame as scum.
I feel your town read on FrozenFlame hinges on the scumskim comment FF made about moody. I don't think that's enough to clear the rest of FF's behaviour. Especially since FF was replying to a mistake moody made about him. It feels like a natural way to respond, even to a scumbuddy.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Also, for anyone with more time or a better memory than me, did EGW claim self-protection before or after Zen's N1 target claim?
Not from memory but before: EGW, Zen
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#HBC | Zyth
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby #HBC | Zyth » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:47 am UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Quick check-in: I've seen the comments and questions directed at me and will reply on my lunch break.

This has been bugging me since it occurred to me last night: has Zen claimed his N2 target yet? I don't recall anything about it. If not, why not?

Also, for anyone with more time or a better memory than me, did EGW claim self-protection before or after Zen's N1 target claim?

Why would I? They don't send the names until toNight. I'm not going to out who I sent it to so that it can be tampered with yet again.

btw this seems as good a time as any @Player I sent my ability to: Please send me Laser and Boom.

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LaserGuy
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby LaserGuy » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:51 am UTC

LaserGuy wrote:I'm a miller

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plytho
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby plytho » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:55 am UTC

LaserGuy wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:I'm a miller


If Zen's power detects miller as aligned with mafia that's actually pretty great! (Assuming that's how it works and Zen is town.) Using you as a baseline to detect scum makes this power better.
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#HBC | Zyth
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby #HBC | Zyth » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:56 am UTC

Gorfdammit, I forgot about that. I'll need to compare you with scum read. Will have to think on it.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby #HBC | Zyth » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:59 am UTC

We may as well vote on it. Once we do the top 4 tally thing, whoever is the runner up to the lynch can be the person sent along with Laser.

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LaserGuy
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby LaserGuy » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:08 am UTC

plytho wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:I'm a miller


If Zen's power detects miller as aligned with mafia that's actually pretty great! (Assuming that's how it works and Zen is town.) Using you as a baseline to detect scum makes this power better.


Without knowing the specifics of what Zen's ability is supposed to do, I can't be certain, but my role PM strongly suggests that I return a result of mafia under all circumstances, so yes, I think this would likely work.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby bessie » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:25 am UTC

Picking up on page 56.

Sabrar wrote:
#HBC | Zyth wrote:Explain why a strong town read on gamma is scummy.
Really? It's not self-evident? Ok, let's break it down.
- Consensus finds Gamma scummy and is right about it.
- Mafia knows that Gamma is not one of them so from their pov he is likely Town.
- Gamma is very likely going to get lynched.
- Therefore Mafia can earn townie-credit by uselessly defending him despite his scummy content and going after the wagon-pushers after Gamma's flip.
The underlined is not necessarily true. Depends on what kind of setup information moody had.

plytho wrote: I’m not claiming setup knowledge. Based on what’s been said about OS powers and the flips we had I have an estimate of what the range of powers is in this game. A one shot communication cop seems too weak. A daily extra lynch with built in protection seems too strong.
I think that you’re making an assumption that is not necessarily true. You are assuming that every player has roughly “equal” powers. I was going to discuss this a little more when I answer Zen’s question to me from this post, but Sabrar suspiciously never replied to my query here. plytho, you’ve only played games where every player is guaranteed a power role, and in games where the mod tried to give everyone (town, scum, indie) something interesting and balanced so everyone would have fun. Those were also much smaller games. Anyway, I will note that some players in this game have claimed strong and/or complex powers, but it’s not unrealistic that there may also be players with very weak or almost useless powers.

#HBC | Red Ryu wrote: Bessie, should you be giving a meta town to Madge? How much non helpful posting before we say enough?
I’m not. I’ve been calling her scummy since D1. But I don’t think she’s a serious lynch candidate. This is also something I’ve been saying since D1. Her early claim brought her the protection of Sabrar and BoomFrog.

BoomFrog wrote: Plytho - SoulRead: In fridge he sincerely believed that his interaction with Bessie was what he'd do as town, but he got lynched for it. This game when he clashed with Bessie, if he was scum he would have self censored faster because he didn't want to confirm others claim that his nitpicking was scummy. But since he's town he doubled down on the nitpicking so at the end if the game he can say, "see! I do it as town too!". When it became apparent that his nitpicking was causing Bessie actual distress he tried to back off, first by waiting to ask questions, then putting them in a spoiler, then when Bessie still couldn't restrain herself from spending most of her time Answering him he declared he wouldn't talk to her. He's trying his best to not mess with her. (Bessie: at this point I have to say you are causing your own problem, plytho had not been intentionally antagonizing you).
I think your soulread is flawed. I really can’t understand your reasoning for your town soulread of plytho. He was scum in Fridge mafia, but he sincerely believed he was acting like a townie, so you don’t think he would ever act in the same way again as scum? And since he is acting in the same way he must be purposely doing so because he’s town and trying to make it part of his townie meta? And he only backed off on questioning me because he was hurting my feelings or something? Seriously? Reminder, you’re talking about a relative newbie to the game, and you think he can make a successful conscious decision not to act scummy if he is scum? There are experienced players that can’t do that.

FrozenFlame wrote: I've had a shit past week and a half, pretty sure I'm depressed.
I’m sorry FrozenFlame. I hope things get better for you this week.

Evil George Washington wrote:Bessie had a delay with her 'interesting' points on Sabrar and Zen.
Explained here.

Evil George Washington wrote: What concerns me is that she states she confused Sabrar for Plytho, which I don't believe.
I had a note that I just kept pushing down my word document as something to come back to, and with all my cut and paste it got separated from the name label I probably had on it at one time and my brain attached it to Sabrar and his defense of Madge, which is probably why I never discarded it. Here’s what it looks like in my notes:

"http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?p=4244487#p4244487
Gamma Emerald wrote:but it still has the issue of me not asking about specific powers.
Why on earth would that make it ok? You're still asking for info on the role, perhaps hoping for more details than you literally asked for.
[note objection to rolefishing Madge, does it apply to other players too?]"

Evil George Washington wrote: She finds Madge suspcious but she doesn't support Madge tree stumping. I find this inconsistent.
Explained here. What would be the advantage of tree stumping her instead of lynching her if we think she’s scum? Unless, are you considering the tree stumping like a second lynch? Ok, if so I failed to make this connection somehow.

Evil George Washington wrote: I don't think PW was masoned with her, I think he used his cop on her and assumed she was likely town from it. (Otherwise, he would have copped someone else if he was already masoned with her, copping her while being masoned with her makes no sense) I think her claim and answer to Zen's role related question will help us POE, but I am concerned as to why she would rather keep this to herself. I could be wrong due to a role related reason, but I still think she is suspicious and feel she needs to clarify this so that we move over this.
I didn’t want to claim too early. When I saw Peaceful Whale’s flip and the discussion of his role I realized that scum isn’t sure what kind of cop they killed, and so may be unsure as to whether or not there is another cop power in the game (depends on what setup information they have). But in retrospect that’s a dumb reason and I should have claimed earlier, as I was going to claim before end of day anyway because like Sabrar, I go in to each night with the absolute certainty that I will be night killed. Zen had it right, Peaceful Whale could target a player (one shot), and if they were town they became a mason with him.
Sabrar, you missed one. Do you want me to give it to you or would you rather try to find it yourself?

Evil George Washington wrote: I get the feeling she is putting up the appearance of having n1 pings and 'interesting' things that catch her attention but she doesn't have the motivation to actually pursue any of those avenues.
Substitute motivation with time. The 2-3 hours I’ve been putting into this every night haven’t been enough. I have lots of time on the weekends, not on weekdays, but the weekends have been overlapping the night cycle.

Evil George Washington wrote: Lol what the fuck. I never typed up 'twenty dollars and self respect.' I typed the game.
Congratulations, you found one of the forum’s word filters! They pop up occasionally, but are mostly gone; "lose...the...game" may be one of the few remaining.

Madge wrote:@EGW: I am not sure who the hell is saying I will normally have a vote analysis. I don't habitually do them. So I don't know why one is "expected" of me today.
I think it is a misunderstanding that goes back to this comment.
Madge wrote: Plytho - your wagon analysis thread was exactly what I was thinking of writing, thank you for posting it.
Which was later followed by this comment.
Madge wrote:
plytho wrote:Madge: harmless, we can’t get the votes for madge with three inactives. I’d like to see her contribute more though. Madge, if I beat you to the wagon analysis D3 I’ll become suspicious of you.

Save yourself the wait and become suspicious of me now because you probably will beat me to it because I probably won't bother with it until/unless I both have time to devote to it (unlikely in a game this fast) and/or feel like it's the one missing piece that will let everything make sense. If I do a wagon analysis I get the feeling I'll waste like 2 hours of my life and not feel any closer to answers.
[ninja’d by plytho pointing this out too]

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby #HBC | Zyth » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:42 am UTC

@bessie: Did PW target you n0 or n1?

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby Sabrar » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:47 am UTC

bessie wrote:but Sabrar suspiciously never replied to my query here.
Which query? That I forgot about mpolo targeting someone else? It wasn't phrased as a question but yes I wanted EGW's fresh opinion on the matter so I hurried with my query to him and forgot about that.
bessie wrote:Sabrar, you missed one. Do you want me to give it to you or would you rather try to find it yourself?
I suck at finding even obvious breadcrumbs (Bin Chicken was an eye-opener) and don't really have the time to look for it. Please point it out.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby #HBC | Zyth » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:48 am UTC

She asked you and George if she should out PWs role.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby #HBC | Zyth » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:54 am UTC

Working on reads post. Will probably have up tomorrow. plytho can you address these two things:

-Your town read on bessie D2. In response to Sabrar's analysis of your back-n-forth, you said something like "Sabrar is townie for stopping an arguement between two townies".
-Your town reasoning on Laser. You say it's because Laser was confident in your scum game together and that he is confident here. So why does this equate to Laser being town here?

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby Sabrar » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:55 am UTC

She also said after everyone posts. Didn't see the need to comment on it before.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby Sabrar » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:39 am UTC

Evil George Washington wrote:Talk to me about my other scumreads.
I forgot this one. Since all your other reads are heavily influenced by your case against me I'm not sure what you expect from me here. I disagree completely wrt bessie and Madge, I think FF is likely scum (didn't like his 'I told you so' rant post D2 hammer and it feels like he's sheeping me today).

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plytho
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby plytho » Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:32 am UTC

bessie wrote:
plytho wrote: I’m not claiming setup knowledge. Based on what’s been said about OS powers and the flips we had I have an estimate of what the range of powers is in this game. A one shot communication cop seems too weak. A daily extra lynch with built in protection seems too strong.
I think that you’re making an assumption that is not necessarily true. You are assuming that every player has roughly “equal” powers. I was going to discuss this a little more when I answer Zen’s question to me from this post, but Sabrar suspiciously never replied to my query here. plytho, you’ve only played games where every player is guaranteed a power role, and in games where the mod tried to give everyone (town, scum, indie) something interesting and balanced so everyone would have fun. Those were also much smaller games. Anyway, I will note that some players in this game have claimed strong and/or complex powers, but it’s not unrealistic that there may also be players with very weak or almost useless powers.
I agree that I'm making an assumption. That's what you're quoting. (estimate=assumption) The results of my assumptions have turned out correct: PW isn't a one-shot communication cop and LaserGuy's power isn't a daily power.

#HBC | Zyth wrote:Working on reads post. Will probably have up tomorrow. plytho can you address these two things:

-Your town read on bessie D2. In response to Sabrar's analysis of your back-n-forth, you said something like "Sabrar is townie for stopping an arguement between two townies".
I answered this before when Sabrar asked me about it. I was considering Sabrar's point of view when I said that. It makes sense for a townie to dig into the argument and try to get me and bessie to stop bickering when he thinks we're both likely town.

#HBC | Zyth wrote:-Your town reasoning on Laser. You say it's because Laser was confident in your scum game together and that he is confident here. So why does this equate to Laser being town here?
I was specifically referring to his scum read on bessie in that game. That's one thing I clearly remember from that game. This was a two scum team game without day chat. During the day LaserGuy went all in for bessie with reasoning I couldn't quite follow. I was very surprised that night when it turned out that he was actually scumreading her, because I was reading her as solid town. LaserGuy's cases in this game reminded me of that. I'm seeing a similarity between his genuine(but wrong) scum read there and his reads here.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby Evil George Washington » Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:09 pm UTC

Madge wrote:Stuff


Quickly before I go to work:

I don't like the way you play, but I don't disrespect you for it. (I never brought it up out of respect, but now you call me a jerk, and I don't appreciate that). I want you treestumped, and that's the only way you will be useful to me or town at all. Your way of playing totally goes against mine. I compromise between taking the game seriously and having fun. I did not insult Sabrar, and I still intend to hydra with him after the game. (If he doesn't, so be it) Personally Sabrar seems like a cool guy. This is mafia, a game where anything is possible. Don't expect me to take anything for granted. I am aiming to win. Move aside. You never addressed Gamma for yelling and insulting Bessie but here you are critiquing me for stating that Sabrar is side lining. You never addressed Laser for mentioning that Sabrar was being more passive then usual. You want to have so much fun at the cost of everyone else winning. No, I'm not having that. I'm not sure what fun you are looking for. I work constantly. I'm not sitting around all willy nilly expecting myself to pass to lylo with just my meta. I haven't improved my game just for someone to devalue all the effort I put into this damn game by calling it stupid. Now again. I respect your playstyle. But you are going to be tree-stumped. Not being a jerk. This is not personal, this is all business. I can understand if you will never want to play with me. It's understandable. If your meaning of fun is living through the game and doing nothing while not being punished for it, sorry, I can't give you that fun. You have to meet me half way. Otherwise, get stumped.

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Sabrar
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby Sabrar » Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:16 pm UTC

Despite the huge OMGUS factor I do not think that EGW's case against me is coming from scum. It relies on a number of factors that are weak or easily disproven. He based his entire scum-team on their perceived connection to me and once I flip Town his whole case falls apart (also confirming bessie and Madge). I perceive him as a better player than to go one false case after the other and not expect the rest of Town to push back.
There is a particular thing that makes scum!EGW more likely and I would be more suspicious if the mod were an xkcd-r but given the situation I'm reserving that suspicion for myself.

Ninja'd: would love to hydra, provided it's on a site that's not blocked at work (and there are quite a few of those).

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Sabrar
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby Sabrar » Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:23 pm UTC

@EGW: you do realize that by stumping town!Madge scum needs 1 less mislynch to win, right?

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby Madge » Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:43 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:
Madge wrote:Madge: Some weird half-jester (is given powers if she is half-lynched; tree stumps if she hammers a lynch)
Mpolo: town bus driver


Why did you include "town" in mpolo's claim, but not your own?


Because in the post immediately before mine mpolo wrote town, I'm sure if I wrote that I was town half-jester someone would chime in with "why are you emphasising your towniness methinks the lady doth protest too much"

EGW wrote:I want you treestumped, and that's the only way you will be useful to me or town at all.


How is me being tree stumped useful? If I'm town, it removes a town vote and power from the game. if I'm scum, it lets a useless scum hang around who is going to lead you astray (yes, I do actually do content, and sometimes I get really good results: check out the batman and joker mafia for a few years back, I basically broke the game by making a claim that every single player knew was false. Ghost I mafia I baited another player into getting modkilled in order to test a theory. I might not "scumhunt" these days but that doesn't mean I'm not useful). Like basically your best case scenario is if I'm lying and don't get tree stumped I'm exposed - in that case though you think I'm a liar so why not just lynch me for being lying scum? I don't get it.

for the record I don't think you're being a jerk for stumping me I think you're being a jerk for your tone with other people.

and for the extra record, yes, I will submit to being a stump if nobody else will hamemr (and I don't know why but Sabrar is apaprently my #1 fan (THANK YOU) so I am guessing I could put a vote on before Sabrar and he'd be glad to hammer for me so this stupid st ump thing doesn't befall me). I'd rather be stumped than nolynch and obviously rather stump than mislynch.

TABLE OF CLAIMS:
Madge: Some weird half-jester (is given powers if she is half-lynched; tree stumps if she hammers a lynch)
Mpolo: town bus driver
Lasetguy: Miller
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby Madge » Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:44 pm UTC

EBWOP: to be specific on the jerk remark, it was specifically because you were saying that because you have a demanding job and still post a lot on mafia, everyone else should devote as much time and/or energy as you do because you make such sacrifices, that was what I was objecting to. I hope that makes sense and contextualises things
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:57 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote:
Summary - although there are definitely some weird, scummy points in BoomFrog's content, and I feel like I could manufacture a case for him being scum if I had to, I don't think he is. He certainly isn't a scum buddy with moody - his interactions around the lynch were way too pro-moody lynch for that to make sense. There is a small chance that he is on a second scum team, but I don't feel it. He's likely town, although if I get a chance, I might go back over the points that a few players have made against him, if I can find them.

Some bits of FrozenFlame's content are pretty good, others not so great. I'm getting a general feel similar to BoomFrog here - he's not likely moody's scum buddy, but may be on a second scum team, based on his low effort in scum hunting in the latter portion of D1. Assuming only one scum team, he's not on it, in my opinion.

Then an hour later:
Town: EGW, Spak, Sabrar(?), Peaceful Whale, bessie, LaserGuy, mpolo, Madge, plytho
Somewhere in the middle - need to re-read latest content: Red Ryu
Lurkers sliding towards scum: heuristically_alone, Znirk
Scum, if second team present, otherwise town: FrozenFlame, maybe BoomFrog
Scum: Gamma Emerald, Zyth
Indy: Amrock

I'm pretty confident with most of my town reads (Madge, mpolo, LaserGuy, plytho, bessie, Spak, Peaceful Whale, but less so EGW and Sabrar pending re-reads), which by PoE means most of the rest must be scum, for balance to look right. That leaves GE, Zyth, FF, BF, RR, HA, Znirk to make up the numbers. Numbers balance would usually mean about somewhere around 6 or 7 scum, I reckon, of whom we've already killed one. As such, I'm basically happy with lynching any of this group, probably more so from the lower half of my above table though.
That means you'd prefer to lynch me or FF over h_a, Znirk, or Red even though you just said we were both likely town an hour before?
I never said FF was likely town, UNLESS there was only one scum team. I was more confident in this case that he would be scum than I was that you would be, in a two team situation (hence why there was a maybe next to your name in that summary). At the time, I felt that a second scum team was fairly likely, so why is it a surprise that FrozenFlame or possibly you would be a better lynch candidate than people I had little to no read on at that point?

BoomFrog wrote:You then analyze Gamma, Znirk, Spak, Madge, Mpolo, Bessie, PW, Red, LaserGuy... wow all of them. Every single analysis you've done since the start of D2 has ended with the exact same conclusion you started with in your reads list at the beginning. Did you feel this was a fruitful way to spend your time? You've done nothing but spin your wheels since the start of D2. You saw your scum buddies weren't on the chopping block and you saw no reason to rock the boat. Every single other player changed their opinions over the course of D2 but you are rock solid middle of the road, lets just cruise on down to Indy lynch town.
In hindsight, maybe it wasn't, but I didn't know without looking at people's posts which way a more detailed read would take me. I have gut instincts, but that doesn't mean that I don't like to justify them with more concrete evidence. I don't see the problem with not changing my mind on players when I do a more detailed read.

No more time to respond to anything else.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby #HBC | Red Ryu » Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:14 pm UTC

>wakes up to three more pages

:x

Welp gonna read where I left off.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby #HBC | Red Ryu » Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:15 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:
#HBC | Red Ryu wrote:Really strongly dislike it laserguys thought process, trying to find boom’s earlier posts.


Which parts of my thought process do you dislike?


Your thought process about voting that Zen pointed out.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby #HBC | Red Ryu » Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:24 pm UTC

Page 58 continued, what are the issues with Jim? Are how he is implementing his reads the problem? Or is it something else I am missing here. Maybe because he isn't memorable or coasting? idk nothing screams strongly here.

Sabrar wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:
#HBC | Red Ryu wrote:Dunno how I feel about Zen v Sabrar I like both slots but I kind of see where Sabrar is coming from even if I do not agree with making fake cases and diverting attention.

When was Sabrar doing this?

Also interested.


You literally posted it about Zen earlier this day phase.

@Plytho FF never has really seemed scummy to me this game and think most if not all of the accusations on his aren't well defined or really seem like anyone wants him dead outside of" less active than others"

FF's long post here is good, still want him around.

Now a Jim wagon? So what is the big reasons to dislike the slot?

Page 59 I go!

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby Sabrar » Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:41 pm UTC

So you meant that you're not agreeing with my point about Zen making false cases and not that I was doing that particular thing?

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby #HBC | Red Ryu » Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:57 pm UTC

Page 59:

EGW's post and mine need to be front and center.

STOP GIVING MADGE A FREE PASS AND LYNCH THE SCUMMY SLOT, THE SLOT HAS LITERALLY JUST GONE IN CIRCLES TALKING ABOUT IT'S STUMP ROLE AND NOTHING ELSE.

Pro top tier long read list from EGW.

Lots of back and forth here, will read more details later but it does bring up a question I'll get to later.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby #HBC | Red Ryu » Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:57 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:So you meant that you're not agreeing with my point about Zen making false cases and not that I was doing that particular thing?


More or less I don't think Zen is making false cases.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby #HBC | Red Ryu » Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:59 pm UTC

Evil George Washington wrote:
Sabrar wrote:
Evil George Washington wrote:I don't believe your excuses.
Let's be absolutely, 100% clear on this. You don't believe that I have irl issues that prevent me from participating as much as I'd like?


I have work 5-6 days out of the week, but I make it work. Your irl situation doesn't mean you'll suddenly be sidelining.


Actually I am gonna prod in here and say not everyone can make it work the same way given they have situations that do not let them post as much. That much I will give to every player in this game, but I will still lynch them for not being as active.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby #HBC | Red Ryu » Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:02 pm UTC

Madge wrote:Writing as I read:

I think Sabrar and mpolo have answered why I said I'd rather be lynched than stumped, but to reiterate in case there is any doubt at all, as I said in my post, for me being a stump would be the least fun thing in the world, and mafia is about having fun, so for my own personal enjoyment of the game I'd rather be lynched than stumped. However I acknowledge that in order to win, I don't want to be lynched (since that stops us lynching scum), so I don't actually want to be lynched, I just want to make sure in no uncertain terms people are aware of how much being stumped would ruin the game for me. Seriously. Who was digging their heels in that? Zen? EGW? FOS on the both of ya.

and for the bloody record, I would have tree stumped myself to get that D1 lynch if it came to that. I almost wish I had so that way people could have got it through their heads that I am not lying about this. Oh me yarm Oh.

Bessie wrote:You could like, scumhunt or something, instead of continuing to emphasize your worthlessness (because I know you’re not incapable of being brilliant).


I appreciate the compliment but I need something to work with claim wise. some 60 pages of content that I suck at analysing is not going to do much for me, scumhunting wise.

@RedRyu: non helpful posting is how i roll, so if you're going to lynch me for that, so be it. It's how I'm playing RN and how I mgiht play forever (or at least until people ask me to stop because I'm interfering with their ability to have fun).

@EGW: I am not sure who the hell is saying I will normally have a vote analysis. I don't habitually do them. So I don't know why one is "expected" of me today.

EGW is being a lameo. Like what the hell are you doing, accusing Sabrar of not working hard enough on this mafia game. at the end of the day this is a stupid forum game we all play to pass the time. Maybe you have more time you need to pass than sabrar does, but I don't expect anyone to put this game at the top of their list of priorities, not even in the top dozen. The most I'll sacrifice any RL stuff to play this game will be to tell a partner to cook dinner because I have to "do my internet chores". Like, I don't think he's scummy because of that - just a general jerk thing to say and maybe down to a difference in playstyle or meta or whatever. But I don't like it. It's not part of the "welcoming" community we have here.'

Like seriously EGW you're being suck a jerk I want to vote you for being a jerk. And probably calling you a jerk is going against friendly welcoming ethos but I don't care you're being a jerk and I don't like it.

======
TABLE OF CLAIMS:
Madge: Some weird half-jester (is given powers if she is half-lynched; tree stumps if she hammers a lynch)
Mpolo: town bus driver


Can you at least give me a read list or a direction with some sort of reasoning?

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby mpolo » Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:17 pm UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:@mpolo - you missed my follow up to your response. Why not pick your top scum candidate as one of your targets?


My top scum pick at that point was #HBC|Zyth, but that one has been wobbling so much that I really only have a "town" and "totally unsure" pile. I'm working on getting something more solid. I also felt like you were so hard to read at that point, that it would be "better" to solve the problem that way, if I had successfully redirected. (Better to lose a hard-to-read townie than one I was certain on.)
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby plytho » Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:47 pm UTC

Zen: I’ll never get to a point where I’m fully trusting Zen, but most of his play does make sense from a townie perspective. I like his defense of me vs bessie and I really like this post. Like Sabrar trying to break up me and bessie before, that post from Zen is very townie. Getting the top townie read off the wrong track is solid town play.


Town: plytho

Very probably town: Sabrar, Evil George Washington, Bessie

Probably town, but I have some doubts still: LaserGuy, jimbobmacdoodle, mpolo, Madge, #HBC | Zyth

Remaining, probably scum:yolinda, BoomFrog, Frozenflame, Red Ryu
Pronouns: he him his
Avatar: The High Frontier by Angus McKie

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby #HBC | Zyth » Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:53 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
#HBC | Zyth wrote:Sabrar why did you switch to Spak at end of D2? You agreed with George's zen-spak theory?
It was a combination of things, he was somewhat convincing but that wasn't the only reason.
I presume you'll go more into this when not on mobile? I'd like to know what parts of George's idea convinced you and what the other reasons were.

A couple of other questions as well:

-Why did you join the jimbob wagon d1?
-Why did you ask if George wanted to switch back to Moody before you yourself switched?

Please give me a detailed walk through of your thought process if possible. Especially regarding your jim vote.

plytho wrote:#2440

Got it. Did Sabrar have bessie as a town read when he made that post?

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby Sabrar » Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:00 pm UTC

#HBC | Zyth wrote:I presume you'll go more into this when not on mobile? I'd like to know what parts of George's idea convinced you and what the other reasons were.
Read back from here to here. If you're still unclear about my reasons I will repeat them in a couple of hours (leaving work right now).

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby bessie » Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:02 pm UTC

#HBC | Zyth wrote: @bessie: Did PW target you n0 or n1?
N1, it should be obvious he wasn’t chatting with me D1.

Sabrar wrote:
bessie wrote:Sabrar, you missed one. Do you want me to give it to you or would you rather try to find it yourself?
I suck at finding even obvious breadcrumbs (Bin Chicken was an eye-opener) and don't really have the time to look for it. Please point it out.
Oh well, as previously stated somewhere in this game I suck at bread crumbs, that’s why I rarely leave them or find them (and I usually don’t even bother to look for them). I made the effort this time because I wanted to leave something for Peaceful Whale to point to if I was night killed.
From my D2 town-scum list:
bessie wrote: town
bessie
Peaceful Whale
Evil George Washington
Every game where I’ve been a mason I’ve put my mason partner’s name next to mine in my list. I thought Peaceful Whale’s change in position from D1 would be enough that if I was dead and his claim wasn’t believed, he could point to it and say bessie said she’s done this before. And I told him if an xkcder pushed against this to call them scummy for it.

I wrote this in the D2 final hour voting frenzy.
bessie wrote:I'm trying to write some replies to content I missed but not getting very far, now I'm lost on where we are with voting. Evil George Washington, you're my strongest town read, where should I vote?
I’m kind of disappointed Sabrar never asked me about this comment, because it was written with him in mind. I expected someone on D3 to point out that PW, not EGW, was my strongest town read. To which my answer was going to be that PW wasn’t a read.

Sabrar wrote: She also said after everyone posts. Didn't see the need to comment on it before.
We're only waiting on Yolinda. With these short days and the hammer requirement, Friday is going to be a total nothing for me anyway, because by the time I get home from work we’re done with content and the discussion shifts to how do we ensure the lynch happens.

plytho wrote:
bessie wrote:
plytho wrote: I’m not claiming setup knowledge. Based on what’s been said about OS powers and the flips we had I have an estimate of what the range of powers is in this game. A one shot communication cop seems too weak. A daily extra lynch with built in protection seems too strong.
I think that you’re making an assumption that is not necessarily true. You are assuming that every player has roughly “equal” powers. I was going to discuss this a little more when I answer Zen’s question to me from this post, but Sabrar suspiciously never replied to my query here. plytho, you’ve only played games where every player is guaranteed a power role, and in games where the mod tried to give everyone (town, scum, indie) something interesting and balanced so everyone would have fun. Those were also much smaller games. Anyway, I will note that some players in this game have claimed strong and/or complex powers, but it’s not unrealistic that there may also be players with very weak or almost useless powers.
I agree that I'm making an assumption. That's what you're quoting. (estimate=assumption) The results of my assumptions have turned out correct: PW isn't a one-shot communication cop and LaserGuy's power isn't a daily power.
And this sort of proves my point that your analysis and reads are based on assumptions that are wrong. In that quote I’ve pretty much told you that in this case your assumption is wrong, and you’ve told me that you’re going to be using your wrong assumption as a basis for your analysis anyway. So you’re possibly a stubborn misguided townie. Or you are filtering out my content and/or ignoring something I'm pointing out for some odd undetermined reason, which would be odd because you claim to have a town lean on me. Or you’re scum trying to force through analysis based on misinformation.

Aside: Can someone explain to me the purpose of hydra? I’ve never understood why two people would play with one account. Why don’t they just both play? This discussion can wait until after the game, just wondering about it. :?

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby BoomFrog » Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:17 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:I agree with this but there was like an hour before deadline. He didn't have to rush.

I was not sure the exact hour of deadline, I only knew we were very close. I belive I was squeezing in posts while my daughter was getting ready for bed. Later interactions with Spak were while I was supposed to be doing dishes.
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