Crossover Mafia | Game!

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plytho
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby plytho » Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:26 am UTC

LaserGuy wrote:
plytho wrote:You've established that I can't trust you to keep our chat secret :roll:


You never gave me a reason to. It's not like you actually had any intention of doing anything useful with the chat anyway. I'm seriously baffled by how anti-town your usage of this power has been. What's the point of having chat with players that think you are scum if you are town? Yes, you take a bit of a risk by asking for a vote, but so what? You were never a serious lynch contender; you could have afforded to pick up a few scum points early in the game. You're more concerned with escaping notice than you are with actually winning the game. Your usage of this power is scummy.
You asked me what the use of this power was and I said I dunno, part of it is talking at night after the lynch flip.
Yeah chatting with players that think I'm scum is tough. That's the challenge of this power.

Asking for a vote is a big risk, not a little one.

Escaping notice is also not giving scum info about townie powers.

You're baffled? I'm baffled that you're once again so certain that you're right about your read that you don't even consider the possibility of jimbob flipping town, me gaining mad townie points and turning our chat into a proper mason chat.

Why couldn't you wait until tomorrow to claim?

You're not going to be the NK target, your power is used up. If I'm nk'd you can say whatever you want. If neither of us is nightkilled we have two flips to inform us.

If you are for some unfathomable reason nightkilled I can keep my evil useless chat to uselessly chat with bessie. Good thing you prevented that.

If you did not post that to get me lynched today I have no idea what town gained by this.

And the whole: "I think he's lying about recruiting multiple people so let's get madge to vote for him" what is that? Is it a lame excuse to claim my power because why on earth would I lie about that?

LaserGuy wrote:
plytho wrote:Explain to me why claiming was pro town.


Well, if nothing else, now you can recruit Zyth and EGW into your chat :roll:
That doesn't weigh up against the negative impact of scum knowing more than they did before.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby Evil George Washington » Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:32 am UTC

plytho wrote:Escaping notice is also not giving scum info about townie powers.


Reminder that Moody, the Mafia-Know-It-All, flipped. They probably have plenty of information on the setup. So probably not a big deal, but good to be cautious as we don't know what exactly they know.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby plytho » Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:45 am UTC

True we don't know how much they know. But knowing which townie has which power would be too much, wouldn't it?

Btw, what do you think about my BoomFrog case. I still feel like he slipped there.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby Evil George Washington » Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:52 am UTC

I like your point. I want Boom to explain what part of my Moody wagon was strong when he was trying to undermine it.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby plytho » Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:57 am UTC

bessie wrote:
plytho wrote: The problem I have reading jimbob as scum here is that he comes to almost the same conclusions I do. My own reads have changed since D2 but that change has been removing spak and gamma for dying and moving bessie, mpolo and Madge towards town (where jimbob already had them much earlier). So I feel like I'm in a similar situation. So if he's scum I'm wrong and I want to be right.
That’s one of your problems. You want jimbob to be town because you agree on everything. Just because you both arrive at the same conclusions doesn’t mean you have to read him as town. My strongest town read is Evil George Washington and we agree on very few of our conclusions, including his scum read of me. But I see how he arrived at his conclusions, and even though we don't connect it doesn’t change my town read of him.


I know that's a problem. That's kind of what I'm saying in that post.

And it's easier to disagree with a town read than to agree with a scum read. Because when you agree with a scum read your line of thinking is probably wrong. When you disagree with a town read it's easy to think they're wrong and you're right or something in between.

That's why l'm saying I'm fine with the jimbob lynch because it will give good feedback on my own reads regardless of what he flips.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby plytho » Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:06 am UTC

Btw, that Zen reads list :shock: I'm impressed.

That vote manipulation speculation was clearly informed by my own power. Not my abnormal smartitude.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby LaserGuy » Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:17 am UTC

plytho wrote:Asking for a vote is a big risk, not a little one.


Madge picked up a bunch of votes D1 by asking. You would have been fine. Maybe you'd even have gotten lucky and some scummy player would have tried to rolefish you.

plytho wrote: You asked me what the use of this power was and I said I dunno, part of it is talking at night after the lynch flip.
Yeah chatting with players that think I'm scum is tough. That's the challenge of this power.


Talking during the night doesn't help if I don't know that your Town. In fact, it is actually very dangerous because scum has a tempo on us--if you're scum, then any information I pass to you during the night can be used to directly inform scum's kill and night actions. That's also why I will not be responding to the rest of your post until D4.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby plytho » Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:22 am UTC

Gotta go now.

Important points before night:

I believe my BoomFrog case still stands (check a few posts above)
If I'm nightkilled LaserGuy will share my thoughts on jimbob's flip and my town to scum (don't know if I'll get to reads on everyone)
I probably won't tell LaserGuy which of the three candidates I'll target with my power to minimize the risk of them getting killed for it.

Thought: is Red Ryu's dayvig a strong enough power for him to avoid hammering SirG over it D1?
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby Evil George Washington » Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:25 am UTC

I take it as null because it is always common for players to gambit dayvig shots.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby plytho » Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:27 am UTC

LaserGuy wrote:
plytho wrote:Asking for a vote is a big risk, not a little one.


Madge picked up a bunch of votes D1 by asking. You would have been fine. Maybe you'd even have gotten lucky and some scummy player would have tried to rolefish you.

plytho wrote: You asked me what the use of this power was and I said I dunno, part of it is talking at night after the lynch flip.
Yeah chatting with players that think I'm scum is tough. That's the challenge of this power.


Talking during the night doesn't help if I don't know that your Town. In fact, it is actually very dangerous because scum has a tempo on us--if you're scum, then any information I pass to you during the night can be used to directly inform scum's kill and night actions. That's also why I will not be responding to the rest of your post until D4.


Madge provided a lot more information about her role than I was willing to share about mine. She also has that madge meta helping her. And it's not scummy to ask for clarification if someone asks you to vote for them without reason.

You don't have any information scum doesn't have. You already claimed your role. What we can do at night is discuss the flip and make sure that both our views reach town the next day.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby Evil George Washington » Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:28 am UTC

On Smashboards I mean.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby plytho » Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:30 am UTC

Evil George Washington wrote:I take it as null because it is always common for players to gambit dayvig shots.

I don't understand this sentence.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby Evil George Washington » Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:32 am UTC

It's common for players on Smashboards to fake Dayvig shots to test people's reactions.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby plytho » Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:35 am UTC

Yeah, I was putting it out there in case it turns out to be true.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby Evil George Washington » Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:45 am UTC

Any last words, Jim?

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby Evil George Washington » Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:53 am UTC

MPOLO: Never use your ability again unless directed by town. Thank you.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:09 am UTC

Evil George Washington wrote:Any last words, Jim?
Just finished catching up. Kind of wish I'd voted FrozenFlame.

To confirm - I am town and have not lied about anything this game. I have no night results, and have fully disclosed my power (for reference, if one of my targets died the same night I used my ability, then the ability would fail, but I'd be able to use it later).

Of my scum candidates, I'm pretty certain with my scum reads on BoomFrog and Red Ryu, a little less so with FrozenFlame, and don't really believe that Zyth is scum, although I haven't reread him. Mpolo looks slightly suspicious, but his early claim is weird coming from scum. Plytho I really doubt to be scum. Ditto Sabrar, EGW, Madge. Not sure about LaserGuy - I stand by what I said earlier about him. Yolinda should be modkilled, and if not is probably scum. Bessie is definitely town.

I've got some things to do this morning. If there's anything specific people would like to know, ask, and I will get to them after lynch if the game is still going.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby Evil George Washington » Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:13 am UTC

Any posts you think we should re-read of yours?

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby Evil George Washington » Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:19 am UTC

#HBC | Zyth wrote:
#HBC | Zyth wrote:Potential doc, no need to protect me. My results will be saved even if I die. Protect someone more valuable.

#HBC | Zyth wrote:Ruy was my target, don't block him. Hopefully he'll send me Boom and himself.


Goodnight.


Evil George Washington wrote:We look into [Frozen Flame, Red Ryu, Boom] tomorrow. We also Massclaim.


Good night.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:40 am UTC

My D3 BoomFrog read. I think there's a number of things I've highlighted in the spoiler particularly that town should note.

Please don't assume that because I was town that I was correct with my reads. I don't claim to be a great scum hunter. I believe I was correct, just not definitely.

Also, just read my last post, and the last bit should say after lunch, not lynch! :lol:
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:49 am UTC

Also, I had a number of questions that have essentially been ignored from yesterday. I think it might be worth exploring why that post was ignored and get some answers to some of the questions.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby plytho » Sat Oct 07, 2017 11:09 am UTC

bessie wrote:George, you're my strongest town read. I'll vote with you, except for Sabrar or Zen, and wouldn't currently vote LaserGuy. I just got to his plytho claim (WTF?).
Another thing we agree on :D
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby plytho » Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:34 pm UTC

I keep wondering why LaserGuy wanted to bring in BoomFrog into the chat after I already explained I didn't want to ask anyone for votes (when he first asked to bring in Sabrar).
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby plytho » Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:07 pm UTC

@Sabrar: has my case on BoomFrog influenced your read on me? Have you had the time to check it?
What did you think of LaserGuy claiming my power?
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby plytho » Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:36 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:Talking during the night doesn't help if I don't know that your Town. In fact, it is actually very dangerous because scum has a tempo on us--if you're scum, then any information I pass to you during the night can be used to directly inform scum's kill and night actions. That's also why I will not be responding to the rest of your post until D4.

Town, hold him to this.

LaserGuy needs to answer all questions and concerns from this post and also provide a good reason why he couldn't give that answer now.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby Sabrar » Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:59 pm UTC

plytho wrote:@Sabrar: has my case on BoomFrog influenced your read on me? Have you had the time to check it?
What did you think of LaserGuy claiming my power?

Currently rereading from the beginning so I have context. Not gotten to it yet.
Don't like the reveal, seems to serve no real purpose. However I can't find a reason for scum!LaserGuy to reveal it either.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby #HBC | Zyth » Sat Oct 07, 2017 3:56 pm UTC

Boom, you played me well. Good ****.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby #HBC | Zyth » Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:19 pm UTC

Evil George Washington wrote:MPOLO: Never use your ability again unless directed by town. Thank you.

You can redirect Boom to Boom.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby #HBC | Zyth » Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:22 pm UTC

Boom to Frozen* or vice

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby Sabrar » Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:30 pm UTC

What would that even accomplish?

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby #HBC | Zyth » Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:34 pm UTC

Not much. I'm dumb. Keep thinking that it redirects the targets actions not the actions toward the target. So he'd have to target a town read and a scum read.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby Sabrar » Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:44 pm UTC

Possible town-slip from Zen? Hard to imagine him faking it.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby bessie » Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:45 pm UTC

Still twilight, great! This post was bothering me last night, and was still bothering me when I woke up this morning.

BoomFrog wrote: Why are people voting still if it's past hammer?

@Bessie: No I really didn't know exactly when deadline is. I play when I can find the time and I lay down serious votes early. I don't understand why there were any last minute shenanigans.
I’m not believing this at all. BoomFrog is no casual player. Read this post from The Dark Tower. And you can read my reaction to it in Gojoe here.
BoomFrog wrote: The thing about mpolo is sincerer, maybe you haven't been mafia for a long time, but I've often found my mafia-mates to be very passive if I don't coordinate them. Btw, I consider everyone to be a passive player except you, me, SDK, and possibly plytho. Plytho would have started asking questions in mafia chat right away, you would have asked the mafia to make a plan, and SDK or I would have outlined a plan for the mafia. Everyone else would very possibly be quite on mafia chat until the game really started rolling.
Context: This was BoomFrog’s first game in a long time (a couple years?), and this was plytho’s first game. BoomFrog had maybe played with me twice before. And he made this completely accurate meta read on me, SDK, and plytho, while revealing something about his own meta. BoomFrog is not a passive player that was casually scanning the thread and didn’t know when deadline was. My first thought when I read this in Dark tower was that he’s one of (me, Sabrar, etc, now I know plytho is in this group). We think about the game all the time, we check the thread often (it even affects Sabrar's sleep :P ).

BoomFrog you are a candidate for my D4 tunnel. I should have started earlier when you asked me to read moody on D1 and then you used that to test the waters and make a slight scum ping on me.
BoomFrog wrote: Your logic was flawless but your actions helped scum (slightly). Starting with you as neutral, that was my only indicator of your alignment so that puts you as slightly scum leaning. (And I don't test the waters, I make waves.)
No you were testing my meta. DGamers, have plytho explain this to you after I am dead. Sabrar will let you know if plytho gives the right answer.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby bessie » Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:54 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote:
Evil George Washington wrote:
#HBC | Zyth wrote: Sabrar, Laser, Frozen, Ruy, Bessie, Boom.


SWING TO FROZEN

I didn't see your ping. I was leasurly reading up and got to this post and jumped ahead.

So BoomFrog, what in this post alarmed you enough to forgo your leisurely reading and skip ahead two pages?

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby BoomFrog » Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:57 pm UTC

plytho wrote:
BoomFrog wrote:
plytho wrote:Here BoomFrog is saying he was trying to undermine the moody lynch because the wagon was suspiciously strong. Referring to the point he asked bessie to move to moody as the point he decided to switch (which is obvious as he votes moody in that post).

The problem with this is that the moody wagon wasn’t strong at all at that point.

This is the last point where BoomFrog was fighting the "strong" wagon.

Of course the moody wagon wasn't strong when I switched. That's why I switched at that point, because support for it was starting to wane and especially the driver EGW, had moved on. That indicated to me that EGW didn't have a specific agenda and I could trust my moody read and vote him. We are definitely misunderstanding each other, because I don't think you would try to be illogical to make a case as scum.
I'm saying the moody wagon wasn't strong when you were undermining it. That was pages before you switched.

Important part of the first link's quotes below:
BoomFrog wrote:
Evil George Washington wrote:Boomfrog:
5) You didn't say this, but I dragged my heels at the end of D1 to change over from Red to Moody. I was concerned that you (EGW) were leading me to lynch a bad looking townie and saved your scum buddy Red.
You seemed like you were trying to undermine my switch to Moody at the point, when there was no reason for you to say that I had said more negative things of Ryu then Moody.

Boomfrog wrote:5) I was trying to undermine your Moody lynch, it was suspiciously strong.

When I posted this I was currently angry at EGW so I think I exaggerated my point. I think questioning and resisting are probably a better choice of words then undermining. At the point that I challenged EGW the lynch wasn't that strong but like I said EGW carries a lot of weight and he was driving it. I'm just going off memory of how I felt at the time. It felt strong, and then focus seemed to spread out more and that made me feel comfortable trusting my read. It's hard to go back and point to posts that gave me that impression because it was an impression in the moment.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby BoomFrog » Sat Oct 07, 2017 5:16 pm UTC

#HBC | Zyth wrote:Boom, you played me well. Good ****.

Really? Because I wasn't on at deadline? What would scum me possibly have to gain by doing that intentionally? I could have easily (and did anyway) justify staying on Jim.

@Bessie: Yes, I am a serious player, but some starting my new job (at the same time this game started) I have been very strapped for time and frequently tired. Between learning new programming languages and trying to puzzle out this game I've had a headache every evening for a month. I've welcomed the extra long nights and I've kinda wished I'd be NKed. If I wasn't a Mafia addict I would have quit the game by now. I just wanted to relax after finding obvious scum D3. This is a RL issue.

I really don't understand the last minute attempt to swing in the last few hours.

@EGW: Did you think Jim was town? At what point did you change your mind?
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby #HBC | Zyth » Sat Oct 07, 2017 5:59 pm UTC

Boom I can empathize with that. Your persona did change a day before the deadline.

--

Laser outing plytho when he did was absolutely unnecessary, seeing that we were mass claiming tomorrow. The pros of having options to neighborizer do not at all outweigh the cons of outting oneself to get them. The way plytho was going about it was perfectly fine. Laser's play does not add up. It's frustrating that people are actually town reading him for his judgement hammer.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby BoomFrog » Sat Oct 07, 2017 6:00 pm UTC

I don't mean to pull "It's RL You can't judge me". I'm tired and have limited energy from RL. You can judge me for how I chose to spend that energy.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby Evil George Washington » Sat Oct 07, 2017 6:14 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote:@EGW: Did you think Jim was town? At what point did you change your mind?


I did. Change my mind on what?

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D3 | 10/06

Postby bessie » Sat Oct 07, 2017 6:18 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote: @Bessie: Yes, I am a serious player, but some starting my new job (at the same time this game started) I have been very strapped for time and frequently tired. Between learning new programming languages and trying to puzzle out this game I've had a headache every evening for a month. I've welcomed the extra long nights and I've kinda wished I'd be NKed. If I wasn't a Mafia addict I would have quit the game by now. I just wanted to relax after finding obvious scum D3. This is a RL issue.
Acknowledging this comment. BoomFrog did mention that he was starting a new job at game start, and he has a family that needs a lot of his time too. BoomFrog, please take my earlier post as the compliment that it is, and not an intentional slight of any RL issues. I think too highly of your ability to believe that you don’t know exactly the status of the game with respect to deadline, and with respect to any other mod confirmed information (like the rules, or flips) at all times. I had this same argument with Sabrar at least once, and I believe that you are both too brilliant to forget certain things.


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