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Evil George Washington
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby Evil George Washington » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:04 pm UTC

I'm also in the unconfirmed mason chat with Plytho. Which is why I was questioning plytho for him not responding to Frozen.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby #HBC | Red Ryu » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:05 pm UTC

plytho wrote:
Evil George Washington wrote:
Sabrar wrote:@EGW: do you think there is a world where scum!Ryu refuses to switch to town!FF?


In a world where he wants Town!Frozen alive to confirm Scum!Ryu's message. (This just came to me)

According to his claim his messages are also confirmed on flip.


From what my role PM says, once those players die the mod will post how many times I protected them as well.

If one of Sabrar, EGW or FF gets lynched and/or dies the mod will post the notes and the number of them.

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Evil George Washington
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby Evil George Washington » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:06 pm UTC

Red Ryu, Top 3 please.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby plytho » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:07 pm UTC

That almost sounds like an invitation for us to lynch one of them ..
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Evil George Washington
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby Evil George Washington » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:08 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote:
Evil George Washington wrote:Paraphrased, it tells me Dr. Mario Protected me, with an exclamation mark.

Is OS really that bastard to make that fake? That's a mod confirmed lie if he's not a doctor. Is it possible Red is a secretly naive doctor who only sends notes and that's the catch? I can't believe scum would claim doctor when going first in a mass claim. Unless, that was part of the know-it-all's info....


Part of the reason why I guessed know'it'all was an info dump was because I had a similar role (Informed Mafia Goon) and I had the info on the whole setup, what roles were in the town. I just didn't know who it was in that game.

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Evil George Washington
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby Evil George Washington » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:10 pm UTC

That is also what I am saying. I believe Ryu sent a note but didn't actually target me, which can align with your result. He's most likely just a note sender, not a doctor. It just makes him seem like one.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby #HBC | Red Ryu » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:10 pm UTC

Evil George Washington wrote:I do, but I'm starting to doubt it ever since I thought of Ryu's reasoning for acting weird + refusing to switch (Note that he made the joke about Dr. Mario in that time as well, so his doctor role was on his mind at the time). I do think Ryu is the best chance at nabbing Scum today.


Because people are giving Madge a free pass and I still do not understand why you are so fixated on me, Acting weird, I was also tipsy when I poked at you calling you mr dr mario.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby plytho » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:11 pm UTC

Evil George Washington wrote:I'm also in the unconfirmed mason chat with Plytho. Which is why I was questioning plytho for him not responding to Frozen.
I don't understand this.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby #HBC | Red Ryu » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:12 pm UTC

plytho wrote:That almost sounds like an invitation for us to lynch one of them ..


I'm not saying that at all, I'm saying if they die notes will be revealed along with the number of them for clarification.

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Evil George Washington
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby Evil George Washington » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:14 pm UTC

Ryu give me your reads for today.

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plytho
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby plytho » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:16 pm UTC

#HBC | Red Ryu wrote:I'm not saying that at all, I'm saying if they die notes will be revealed along with the number of them for clarification.
Sure, you're not saying that, but it still sounds like: "lynching them is an easy way to check my claim."
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby #HBC | Red Ryu » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:17 pm UTC

Can someone give me a reason why FF should be lynched over any other slot that has had the same activity levels.

If we are talking about play, Madge is far worse and if activity was your go to game why FF over the inactive who could have been a lurker? If activity was your main goal of wanting FF dead because of content or some reads he has.

Then why are you guys are defending Madge who has posted literally nothing of value outside of role speculation?

I protected FF n1 because I liked what he posted and he's a strong player on Smashboards when he is active. I thought if a Smashboards player was scum they would have seen him as a way to kill a strong player and get a kill off of it. People think I am defending him for no good reason when no one really seems to be reading his posts while giving nonsense like Madge a free pass.

Madge>Frog/laserguy

Are my top 3.

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plytho
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby plytho » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:17 pm UTC

Btw, if Madge actually needs to get N/2 votes to charge each power she won't be able to use her kill (assuming 1 lynch and 1 NK per night).
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Evil George Washington
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby Evil George Washington » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:27 pm UTC

Sabrar I am interested in your reasoning on FF, and your read on Madge.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby #HBC | Red Ryu » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:32 pm UTC

plytho wrote:
#HBC | Red Ryu wrote:I'm not saying that at all, I'm saying if they die notes will be revealed along with the number of them for clarification.
Sure, you're not saying that, but it still sounds like: "lynching them is an easy way to check my claim."


Which I never said nor implied.

Given all three are slots I view as town, why would I want to lynch any of them. I'm not asking town to lynch them, I was clarifying that yes on death the notes and number of them saying they were protected will be public.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby BoomFrog » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:34 pm UTC

plytho wrote:
Evil George Washington wrote:I'm also in the unconfirmed mason chat with Plytho. Which is why I was questioning plytho for him not responding to Frozen.
I don't understand this.

I also don't understand the connection between these two sentences.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby #HBC | Red Ryu » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:36 pm UTC

Town: EGW, FF, Sabrar, Bessie(masoned right?)
would rather not lynch but would need review later: Mpolo, Phytho
Need to die: Madge, Frog, Laserguy

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby Sabrar » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:43 pm UTC

Evil George Washington wrote:Sabrar I am interested in your reasoning on FF, and your read on Madge.
Tonight.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby #HBC | Red Ryu » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:49 pm UTC

Evil George Washington wrote:I think it's between Boom and Ryu today. Watcher is hard to fake, and it's risky to fake results which condemn Ryu. Ryu's last EOD was suspicious. He misrepresented my play towards Zen. Spak was our one shot protective. I don't see how Doctor + 1-shot Jail makes sense balance wise. I also think it's weird Madge hasn't received Sabrar's Jail.

I lean towards Ryu. I think his role allows him to write mod-messages, which would make sense with Boom's result. He goes today.

Top 3: [Ryu > Frozen > Madge]


Evil George Washington wrote:He misrepresented my play towards Zen.


He literally exploded on you and started to deliberately ignore you getting fed up with you hounding him on content and linked to a past game where the same thing happened.

No, I didn't misrepresent anything.

Evil George Washington wrote:Spak was our one shot protective. I don't see how Doctor + 1-shot Jail makes sense balance wise.


You are jumping ahead on speculating the set-up nor do we have full knowledge on everything mafia. Also if Spak is a one shot protective, how exactly does that balance the set-up if we really want to dig deep into this? I protect players and leave notes which some investigative roles can find from what my role PM says. It's not plausible mafia has a gimmicky way to find these/use it to find the doctor.

Also, no mention Boom did something risky and lied? No consideration? But a 1 shot protective with multiple Indies and potentially 5 man scum team makes sense. I can believe that two protectives exists.


Evil George Washington wrote:I lean towards Ryu. I think his role allows him to write mod-messages, which would make sense with Boom's result. He goes today.


Except this theory still requires me to visit to do this, unless you really are trying to backwards justify this saying I don't visit and the mod just provides it to the player without a visit. Please link me to a mafia game where a mod does this, or rather an OS game. Since you know, me visiting someone to neighbor them in one game required me to lie about my role and was forced to provided a fake claim to do this in OS all Stars.

You should be considering the very likely outcome that Boom is lying right now or there is something else going on.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby BoomFrog » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:52 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:
Sabrar wrote:Not what I asked. How do you know that Znirk's ability did not have 'such an arduous activation requirement'?


Educated guess. I read the role and figured it was probably similar to mine--two unrelated powers. Even if it isn't, the odds of it having a harder activation than Madge's are pretty slim since I have a hard time even envisioning what such a thing would look like. Madge's power is ridiculously hard to activate for town!Madge since it basically requires the cooperation of scum. And for all that, it's kind of weak and negative utility.

Why do you consider yourself to have two "powers" is miller a "power"?
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby Sabrar » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:56 pm UTC

#HBC | Red Ryu wrote:I can believe that two protectives exists.
Scum-slip.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby #HBC | Red Ryu » Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:01 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
#HBC | Red Ryu wrote:I can believe that two protectives exists.
Scum-slip.


Except it's not.

If Spak was a one shot protective I can easily believe another nerfed one like mine exists. I literally said that in the part you took out of context.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby #HBC | Red Ryu » Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:02 pm UTC

Hell I literally said with a set-up full of indies and potentially 5 scum team, all town gets is a 1 shot jailer? Really?

I'm not great with my set-ups but I would never do something like that.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby plytho » Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:04 pm UTC

What's nerfed about your power?
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/10

Postby BoomFrog » Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:05 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote:I can only actually claim Red. I've defended FF and LaserGuy and haven't been strong on plytho either.


Madge wrote:The people who I have been most willing to lynch have all been DBGames players, which I think shows I have some serious biases in my thinking as it is very unlikely there aren't xkcders amongst the scum (cf moody). So I am not really willing to trust my past lynch-allowing behaviour.


Evil George Washington wrote:D1: Boom, Dark Horse, Moody
D2: Boom, Gamma, Spak
D3: Sabrar, FrozenFlame


bessie wrote:plytho and jimbobmacdoodle


plytho wrote:D3 Frozen, BoomFrog
D1 I was voting Red before switching to moody.


Sabrar wrote:D1: moody, jimbob, Ryu
D2: Zen, Gamma, Spak
D3: jimbob, FF


LaserGuy wrote:For your question, of living players I've had votes on plytho and FrozenFlame, and have also indicated I would be okay with lynching Red Ryu, and, at one point, EGW.


RR: As usual ignores questions. Protecting FF, willing to lynch BoomFrog and Madge. I don't recall anyone else he's pushed.

FF: Ditto. Willing to lynch BF, and Madge(?). Anyone else currently alive that you've pushed before D4?

mpolo: hasn't pushed anyone?

Processing...

gtg, the rest I can do by phone later.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby #HBC | Red Ryu » Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:07 pm UTC

plytho wrote:What's nerfed about your power?


Notes are left and i was told investigatives of sorts can find the notes. Scum can lead it back to me or find me from that.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby plytho » Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:08 pm UTC

@BoomFrog, did you just link your spreadsheet?
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby Sabrar » Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:08 pm UTC

#HBC | Red Ryu wrote:If Spak was a one shot protective I can easily believe another nerfed one like mine exists. I literally said that in the part you took out of context.
It's not out of context. You wouldn't use the word 'believe' if you were Doctor. You'd know.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby #HBC | Red Ryu » Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:12 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
#HBC | Red Ryu wrote:If Spak was a one shot protective I can easily believe another nerfed one like mine exists. I literally said that in the part you took out of context.
It's not out of context. You wouldn't use the word 'believe' if you were Doctor. You'd know.


I used the word believe in the sense of Ran saying he does not believe in a second protective existing in this set-up. I can easily see it in a large set-up from a speculation of overall game balance and set-up.

Yes I know that I am a doctor, I am saying this from the perspective than Ran does not based on theory of the set-up.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby Sabrar » Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:23 pm UTC

#HBC | Red Ryu wrote:If we are talking about play, Madge is far worse and if activity was your go to game why FF over the inactive who could have been a lurker? If activity was your main goal of wanting FF dead because of content or some reads he has.

Then why are you guys are defending Madge who has posted literally nothing of value outside of role speculation?
Madge only gets lynched if BoomFrog flips scum.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby Evil George Washington » Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:28 pm UTC

#HBC | Red Ryu wrote:He literally exploded on you and started to deliberately ignore you getting fed up with you hounding him on content and linked to a past game where the same thing happened.

No, I didn't misrepresent anything.


I thought he was faking it to avoid giving a read on me at that time. Yet he explained why he was frustrated, so I understand his pov. Yet you said I was literally twisting what he was saying, which I didn't like. Sure, I can understanding 'hounding' him but I wasn't trying to twist anything and don't see how you would get that from a skim.


Also, no mention Boom did something risky and lied? No consideration? But a 1 shot protective with multiple Indies and potentially 5 man scum team makes sense. I can believe that two protectives exists.


I did jump to Boom first since he made the claim earlier, and it is a bold move. That's why I believed him. Yet his actions don't line up with his results. I don't think it's coming from a townie mindset. Also talk to me on the setup balance. What do you think about it?

Except this theory still requires me to visit to do this, unless you really are trying to backwards justify this saying I don't visit and the mod just provides it to the player without a visit. Please link me to a mafia game where a mod does this, or rather an OS game. Since you know, me visiting someone to neighbor them in one game required me to lie about my role and was forced to provided a fake claim to do this in OS all Stars.


You are right. I can't actually make sense of it. The conclusion I am coming to now is that you are likely telling the truth, and you are being consistent. I didn't like your EOD but I can see that you just town read FF. Yet I don't know for what. That's my concern there. Yet I do like you pushing for Madge after all this.

You should be considering the very likely outcome that Boom is lying right now or there is something else going on.


I am, you are right.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby #HBC | Red Ryu » Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:32 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
#HBC | Red Ryu wrote:If we are talking about play, Madge is far worse and if activity was your go to game why FF over the inactive who could have been a lurker? If activity was your main goal of wanting FF dead because of content or some reads he has.

Then why are you guys are defending Madge who has posted literally nothing of value outside of role speculation?
Madge only gets lynched if BoomFrog flips scum.


Because?

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby Sabrar » Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:33 pm UTC

Because no one else could have coached her on that opening post.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby Evil George Washington » Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:35 pm UTC

I'm changing my mind. I think the scum is Boom over Ryu. Ryu has remained consistent all game. Boom has had multiple bad EOD's, and multiple scum slips, and also has actions that do not line up with town motivation this day phase. I do think Boom claiming a watcher result on Ryu bold, but find it odd that he would not push him for it, and instead is scum leaning me for pushing it on a very weak basis. I think he is trying to find whatever he can to stretch things on me. Red Ryu defending FF (along having him as his N1 action) makes sense, Boom being late to deadline does not.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby BoomFrog » Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:44 pm UTC

What is un-townie about my thinking?
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby Sabrar » Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:47 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
Evil George Washington wrote:Sabrar I am interested in your reasoning on FF, and your read on Madge.
Tonight.

Just found time to do some highlights.
- FF is lurking. Yes, there are others, that doesn't mean he isn't doing the same. He comes online after the lynch is decided and has a distinct 'I told you so' attitude (twice) which is completely unhelpful. As plytho said Yolinda was getting mod-killed anyway, it made literally 0 sense to lynch him.
- totally unverifiable claim
- D1 wagonomics. FF wanted a jimbob lynch over moody up until the last second.
- this is OMGUS but when does an experienced player like him not realize that we have claim-orders for a specific reason and me revealing whether I received a note from Ryu early goes entirely against this philosophy? That line of thinking is total BS.

re:Madge
Explained before, if she doesn't have chat with BoomFrog she cannot be scum. Maybe after this game she can fake it but not going into it. I don't care what happened afterwards, her inactivity does not make her initial post null. Her not receiving notification about the jail could easily be because I was blocked.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby BoomFrog » Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:50 pm UTC

plytho wrote:@BoomFrog, did you just link your spreadsheet?

Yes. Please don't edit it, I'm only intending to share but I don't use g-drive very often. It's just a quick visual of the enemy claims. Orange are claims that I find weaker, (plus me on moody since others find that weak).
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby #HBC | Red Ryu » Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:56 pm UTC

Evil George Washington wrote:
#HBC | Red Ryu wrote:He literally exploded on you and started to deliberately ignore you getting fed up with you hounding him on content and linked to a past game where the same thing happened.

No, I didn't misrepresent anything.


I thought he was faking it to avoid giving a read on me at that time. Yet he explained why he was frustrated, so I understand his pov. Yet you said I was literally twisting what he was saying, which I didn't like. Sure, I can understanding 'hounding' him but I wasn't trying to twist anything and don't see how you would get that from a skim.


Also, no mention Boom did something risky and lied? No consideration? But a 1 shot protective with multiple Indies and potentially 5 man scum team makes sense. I can believe that two protectives exists.


I did jump to Boom first since he made the claim earlier, and it is a bold move. That's why I believed him. Yet his actions don't line up with his results. I don't think it's coming from a townie mindset. Also talk to me on the setup balance. What do you think about it?

Except this theory still requires me to visit to do this, unless you really are trying to backwards justify this saying I don't visit and the mod just provides it to the player without a visit. Please link me to a mafia game where a mod does this, or rather an OS game. Since you know, me visiting someone to neighbor them in one game required me to lie about my role and was forced to provided a fake claim to do this in OS all Stars.


You are right. I can't actually make sense of it. The conclusion I am coming to now is that you are likely telling the truth, and you are being consistent. I didn't like your EOD but I can see that you just town read FF. Yet I don't know for what. That's my concern there. Yet I do like you pushing for Madge after all this.

You should be considering the very likely outcome that Boom is lying right now or there is something else going on.


I am, you are right.


1) In some respects I think you were jumping on him too much for his activity and content. It's why I posted a lot of this as me myself that you do have a habit from past games getting on people for activity. I do know because in games regardless of my alignment on Smashboards. I was lynched and my activity not fitting my usual or posting habits. In the more recent years I have been lynched for this, multiple times as town and only once I think as scum. I think with twisting, it was in the sense you were trying to do what I see here, tunnel too hard and have it make sense for your perspective. That's where the twisting came from.

2) He did, but that doesn't mean he was telling the truth earlier or maybe considering this is a gamble he is taking. I do not know the full set-up and if I flip, eyes will be on him but what if he doesn't care? What if he has a role up his sleeve or something to help him get around this? For speculation, it is possible he is town and someone messed with his results, however given my thoughts on the slot I still think he is lying overall. Or rather only telling partial truths. For the set-up at large I got two ideas on this from what has been revealed given all of the roles.

#1 5 man scum team with some other ways they can kill and/or some of the indies lied while having ways they could have done kills.
#2 1 3 man and a 2 man running around.
#3 same as #2 but only one team can night kill.

I have issues with all three, but I find #1 and #2 to be more likely given the roles running around. A second team has been on my mind a bit since Plytho brought it up, thinking about the interactions and why I was double checking with how Zen said affirmatively you would be around for sure before deadline, as if he knew from outside contact you would be. If there are multiple teams and more ways people can die, multiple protective absolutely makes sense. Even more so if a lot of the roles are powerful but only in certain situations and have some drawbacks, Spak's one shot and my Notes, FF's protection etc. We have only seen one kill each night, so a lot of this isn't really helping the two scum team theory I've been thinking about, but it's been on my mind as we aren't at a point where I can rule it out.

3) I've read FF's posts and while he has been less active. I still feel like his posts provide something while not being empty. Someone tried to reference this to a past game and I don't see where others are coming from. Again, as I said earlier, me protecting him wasn't entirely due to my read, it was also due to his abilities and seeing that other Smashboards players might try to off him early due to that. I've liked his content over the whole game when he did post, walls or not it provided me something and some insight. It doesn't help that I absolutely feel like the push on his is bull given the free passes people are giving mpolo and Madge if we want to play the activity angle. Even worse when Madge doesn't have any real content outside of talking about the tree stump role. Like if Madge had any effort to scum hunt or provide anything, I might have been way more lenient given meta stuff Bessie pointed out. But it's not, it's literally coasting. That's where my problems are with the whole disparity with reads people have had with FF. I think people are setting him up for the fall for no good reason.

4) Then talk to me, while I think there is something odd with Boom's Claim I want Madge gone first because people are still giving that slot a free pass. I'm still looking at claims and play, Madge has nothing. Is this a slot we want in a Mylo/Lylo situation? I sure as hell do not.

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#HBC | Red Ryu
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby #HBC | Red Ryu » Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:57 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:Because no one else could have coached her on that opening post.


I don't buy the town slip if this is what I think it is.

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Sabrar
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D4 | 10/16

Postby Sabrar » Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:59 pm UTC

#HBC | Red Ryu wrote:I don't buy the town slip if this is what I think it is.
That's not a town-slip, that's town-Madge. It's specific to her entire personality.


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