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LaserGuy
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby LaserGuy » Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:31 pm UTC

Evil George Washington wrote:Don't have the time to right now. It would be nice if he could give brief points I could talk about. Maybe tonight.


LaserGuy wrote:EGW gained considerable (and justified) townie credit for the D1 lynch of moody. However, his subsequent play does not hold up to scrutiny, and with a second scum team being extremely likely at this point, EGW's townie credit for the moody lynch must also be brought into question. In D2, he pushed a ludicrous Spak-Zen connection, leading into a Spak-Gamma connection, ultimately hammering Spak long past the point where any reasonable person would have considered him to be Town. In D3 he pushed a flimsy scumread on me, followed by an equally flimsy scumread on Sabrar/Madge/bessie, followed by an equally flimsy push on FrozenFlame. Despite ending up with three theoretically solid scumreads ending D3 (FrozenFlame, plus BoomFrog and RR for their EoD shenanigans), he doesn't roleblock any of these players. D4 when the claims roll around, BoomFrog is unexpectedly missing a result. Clearly RR must be a ninja-mod-confirming-bastard-messenger. It couldn't possibly be that EGW himself simply roleblocked Boom with his claimed power :roll:. EGW pushes RR hard on his connection to FrozenFlame and on this point, though he ultimately concedes that RR is probably just a special kind of doctor... backing down much like every other time he's tried this so far. After mislynching FrozenFlame, EGW is back to pushing RR, despite the fact that his original reason for suspecting RR (connection to Frozen) is faulty, and has already conceded that more likely than not RR's claim is legitimate. He hasn't even tried to explain this discrepancy in his supposed "progression", simply asserted it as forcefully as he can and as often as he can in hopes that it will stick. Likely he will back down on his scumread on Red once again as soon as Town moves away from it, just like he has done every other time. His reads aren't genuine, and they haven't been all game.


Start with this.

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LaserGuy
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby LaserGuy » Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:54 pm UTC

mpolo wrote:LaserGuy: power as a one-shot could go either way, strong start on subbing in, some questions arise later.


What questions do you have for me?

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby BoomFrog » Wed Oct 25, 2017 5:30 pm UTC

mpolo wrote:BoomFrog: Lingering scummy vibe, at the same time, my biggest supporter.
LaserGuy: power as a one-shot could go either way, strong start on subbing in, some questions arise later.

...

LaserGuy
BoomFrog
SCUM

Haven't looked as to whether anyone makes sense as a team here.

I also would like you to go more in depth about LaserGuy and me and why you ordered us this way.
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plytho
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby plytho » Wed Oct 25, 2017 5:32 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote:Final thoughts before sleep. Laser has been putting effort into figuring things out today, especially defending Red doesn't make sense. Maybe Mafia is eliminated.
Where are you at now? You were thinking large mafia + SK, but now you're not thinking large mafia anymore? Do you think there's only an SK left? Or 2 scum on the kill team? 3?
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LaserGuy
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby LaserGuy » Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:03 pm UTC

Brief reads of everyone else:

Red Ryu: Likely Town. I believe his claim. I don't believe that scum!Ryu would have killed bessie at this juncture and do believe that the night kill was likely targeted at bessie to implicate RR.

BoomFrog: Likely Town. For all the same reasons that I thought in D4, plus I feel our discussion on Red Ryu today felt very natural and he was genuinely trying to figure things out.

Sabrar: Likely Town. I have been going back and forth on Sabrar a bit recently because his play this game hasn't really fit with my meta read on him very well. I do think Sabrar is much too cautious as scum to target bessie at this point. Megaman's power doesn't make a lot of sense for scum in this setup.

plytho: Ambivalent. There's still a lot of his play that seems scummy to me and other parts that seem okay. I agree with others that his reaction to bessie's flip seems genuine, and I have liked a lot of his content today. Still wary of the fact that he switched his target to bessie in the night. Due for a major reread at some point. I'm okay leaving him around for now.

Madge: Null. I feel like bessie's flip and the possible power interactions that might lead to it should have been the kind of thing that Madge would have been interested in analyzing, but she hasn't really engaged in it. It's getting to the point where I don't really know where she stands on much of anything and I'm uncomfortable with how weak my read is on her.

mpolo: Reread his content and I still can't find much fault in it. Noting that his read on me has slipped from likely town to likely scum without really any strong indication of why. What bothers me is that he has a strong power, has been open about its usage, and yet, he's still alive despite not receiving any protection on any night. Also is apparently the only person with a completely standard role with no modifiers? Feels weird to me. If there's an SK, I think mpolo is a very likely candidate. PoE puts him in a lot of likely scum pairings as well. I'd be okay with lynching him today.

EGW: See here.

EGW > mpolo

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plytho
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby plytho » Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:17 pm UTC

I'm gravitating towards EGW and mpolo as well. I don't know who I prefer though. One reason to lynch mpolo over EGW is that mpolo is contributing a lot less and we're not going to get a better read on him by keeping him in the game. A reason for lynching EGW over mpolo is that EGW is in our chat and neither of us trusts him anymore. And there are many more reasons for each.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby BoomFrog » Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:21 pm UTC

Will let's think this through from the basics. With 2 non-SK Indies, We expected 5ish Mafia if on one team. I would expect more scum since there are two teams. 6-7 scum counting the recruit as one. It seems unfair for the killing team to have as many members as the no-kill team so probably not 3 vs 3.

7 total scum means 11 original townies. Seems unfair to town. Let's roughly assume scum kills scum once and two of the town extra skills gets to fire. Town has to kill correctly 6 times and can miss 3 times. Almost fair, but it's worse if Glados and the lyncher were serious threats, which is still unclear. The game certainly doesn't feel like there are 4 scum left.

6 scum as 3+1 vs 2 or 4+1 vs 1 both make sense. Which means, yes, there is at least one Mafia left most likely.

It's either plytho or Laser, but again plytho gets some credit for lynching moody, and Laser has been very interested in finding the kill team today.

I'm ready to vote Laser but I want to hear others input on this. Even if we get this right, we've got probably two more scum to find. Hopefully on opposite teams.

Ninjad: I agree with a lot of what Laser posted. :D Too bad none of that makes him not-mafia. I almost want to keep him around to help find the kill team.
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plytho
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby plytho » Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:27 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote:I'm ready to vote Laser but I want to hear others input on this. Even if we get this right, we've got probably two more scum to find. Hopefully on opposite teams.
You're kind of contradicting yourself here. You want to lynch the last mafia but you hope the remaining scum are on opposite teams?
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby mpolo » Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:33 pm UTC

I'm a little concerned that a mislynch at this point is going to take us down. While I sincerely hope that there are only 1-2 scum left, I can't rule out 3.

As I mentioned before, I'm not 100% standard, because the second listed ability makes me unblockable in bussing. And my bus-driving ability is really transforming according to the title of the ability, but it is really just bus-driving. But my role is considerably more standard-issue than the others we've seen, certainly.

@BoomFrog+LaserGuy: There was a lot of gut feeling in the ordering. I need to reread some, but the sheer quantity of content is making that very difficult. Both players suffer more in comparison to others than anything overtly scummy. I actually had you two down in the opposite order and changed it just before submitting. It's that uncertain for me at the moment.
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LaserGuy
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby LaserGuy » Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:41 pm UTC

mpolo wrote:As I mentioned before, I'm not 100% standard, because the second listed ability makes me unblockable in bussing. And my bus-driving ability is really transforming according to the title of the ability, but it is really just bus-driving. But my role is considerably more standard-issue than the others we've seen, certainly.


Why didn't you full claim your rolename and powers when we were doing claims in D4?

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby BoomFrog » Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:45 pm UTC

plytho wrote:
BoomFrog wrote:I'm ready to vote Laser but I want to hear others input on this. Even if we get this right, we've got probably two more scum to find. Hopefully on opposite teams.
You're kind of contradicting yourself here. You want to lynch the last mafia but you hope the remaining scum are on opposite teams?

If Mafia are 4+1 vs SK there is another mafia after Laser.
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plytho
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby plytho » Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:08 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote:
plytho wrote:
BoomFrog wrote:I'm ready to vote Laser but I want to hear others input on this. Even if we get this right, we've got probably two more scum to find. Hopefully on opposite teams.
You're kind of contradicting yourself here. You want to lynch the last mafia but you hope the remaining scum are on opposite teams?

If Mafia are 4+1 vs SK there is another mafia after Laser.
Right, but you were saying mafia was me or Laser, does that mean you think it's me and laser in 4+1?
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby BoomFrog » Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:12 pm UTC

plytho wrote:
BoomFrog wrote:
plytho wrote:
BoomFrog wrote:I'm ready to vote Laser but I want to hear others input on this. Even if we get this right, we've got probably two more scum to find. Hopefully on opposite teams.
You're kind of contradicting yourself here. You want to lynch the last mafia but you hope the remaining scum are on opposite teams?

If Mafia are 4+1 vs SK there is another mafia after Laser.
Right, but you were saying mafia was me or Laser, does that mean you think it's me and laser in 4+1?

Yes.
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Sabrar
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby Sabrar » Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:24 pm UTC

Vote: plytho
Unvote


I see no room in the setup for a third non-killing indie and if plytho is SK I doubt he has vote-related abilities so there's no reason anymore not to do this at this point.

EGW not even acknowledging LaserGuy's case until prodded is beyond weird. I can't imagine a scenario where I wouldn't have reacted to it in some way.

I doubt EGW and mpolo would be in the same scum-team just because I think EGW would have prodded mpolo to post better reads, maybe even supplying some of them himself.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby BoomFrog » Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:36 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:I doubt EGW and mpolo would be in the same scum-team just because I think EGW would have prodded mpolo to post better reads, maybe even supplying some of them himself.

What is this based on?
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Sabrar
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby Sabrar » Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:44 pm UTC

I too noticed the similarities between EGW's playstyle and mine and it's exactly what I would do in that situation.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby BoomFrog » Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:56 pm UTC

I'm suprised you agree. I think you are far more analytical and methodical while EGW follows his gut instincts more and depends on personal interactions. Not that either of those are related to coaching mpolo.
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Sabrar
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby Sabrar » Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:11 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote:I think you are far more analytical and methodical
Look at him constantly changing and adjusting his plans and then look at my plans in either X-Men or Pen Pal and tell me if you don't see the exact same methodical approach.

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LaserGuy
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby LaserGuy » Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:26 pm UTC

plytho wrote:
Evil George Washington wrote:
plytho wrote:
Evil George Washington wrote:
plytho wrote:Because my power ignores immunities/roleblocks. Otherwise I wouldn't have targeted him. I've mentioned this before.


What is the role name for that power? Is that your secondary?
Why are you asking?


I am curious. Answer please.
It's not a secondary ability. It's part of my ability 'friend to foe'.


mpolo wrote:As I mentioned before, I'm not 100% standard, because the second listed ability makes me unblockable in bussing. And my bus-driving ability is really transforming according to the title of the ability, but it is really just bus-driving. But my role is considerably more standard-issue than the others we've seen, certainly.


Interesting that plytho's ability has "ignores immunities/roleblocks" included as part of the description, whereas mpolo's has this listed as a secondary ability AND specifically mentions the natural action resolution result of it.

This is especially weird because bus driver is always first in NAR, so this isn't a weird exception that ought to need its own power. Perhaps mpolo has another ability that also ignores NAR.

Hmm...

Vote mpolo

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LaserGuy
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby LaserGuy » Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:39 pm UTC

specifically mentions the natural action resolution result of it.

This is especially weird because bus driver is always first in NAR, so this isn't a weird exception that ought to need its own power. Perhaps mpolo has another ability that also ignores NAR.


Hold on, I remember this being said, but I can't find the quote. Maybe I'm just hallucinating.

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LaserGuy
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby LaserGuy » Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:40 pm UTC

mpolo wrote:My role has an additional element (it's unblockable), which is not contained in the title of the role. I'm also told that I am first in night action resolution. I just looked at my PM and had totally forgotten that that aspect was there.


Ah, here it is. Yeah, mpolo is totally the SK.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby BoomFrog » Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:15 pm UTC

Slowclap for LaserGuy.

That is super weird. I await mpolo's explination.
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby #HBC | Red Ryu » Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:24 pm UTC

Work is busy I'll have more time tonight to post about recent stuff.

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LaserGuy
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby LaserGuy » Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:59 pm UTC

plytho wrote:
Evil George Washington wrote:
plytho wrote:
Evil George Washington wrote:
plytho wrote:Because my power ignores immunities/roleblocks. Otherwise I wouldn't have targeted him. I've mentioned this before.


What is the role name for that power? Is that your secondary?
Why are you asking?


I am curious. Answer please.
It's not a secondary ability. It's part of my ability 'friend to foe'.


@EGW: Why were you asking about this?

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Evil George Washington
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby Evil George Washington » Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:16 am UTC

LaserGuy:

Spak was taking a very long time to get into the game. It felt like he was purposely catching up in a way to stay behind.

I want you to explain how my pushes were flimsy on you/sab/madge/bessie. Especially bessie, who had given me concerns (like noting interesting things about Sab and Plytho but never following up) I want to know if things like that = flimsy and not good enough for a strong read.

I do not roleblock because I'd rather save it when I have more information, not waste it when I may be wrong. It simply comes from experience using all my shots as soon as possible, and then not getting anything out from that.

Boomfrog is missing a result indeed. You aren't able to actually verify if I did that, though. So this point is not valid.

It's possible, especially with OS. He likes to make roles that have positive and negatives to them at once. For example, Town Cop, who can target a person only if he didn't vote during the day. This means the cop would have to challenge himself to reward himself with the result. Being a very over-powered doctor that sends confirmation of his visits does not seem to line up with OS's role creation.

Red Ryu did not want to lynch Frozen D3, so there was a connection. Frozen was behind and not providing content and it seemed like he was trying to stay in the shadows to survive while Boomfrog took the lynch.

You state I back down from a wagon/lynch but don't consider the possibility that I do not want to lynch incorrectly, for example Boom. I could have let him die D3, pushed him to his death, but I saved him from that.

Finally, you state that it's most likely an aggressive scum team running around. Why do you lean towards an aggressive scum team over a passive one? If I'm lynched and flip town, who do you propose would be secondary scum / SK?

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Evil George Washington
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby Evil George Washington » Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:19 am UTC

LaserGuy wrote:@EGW: Why were you asking about this?


I didn't seem to remember Plytho stating a secondary ability, but being able to target through immunities seems like it may be a passive. I was considering Plytho might be SK due to that, and that is why I asked.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby Evil George Washington » Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:37 am UTC

BoomFrog wrote:6 scum as 3+1 vs 2 or 4+1 vs 1 both make sense. Which means, yes, there is at least one Mafia left most likely


I think it's more likely 2+1 and 2 with possibly an SK on the side. I still think it's Ryu, possibly Laser. Ryu has had no interest in scum hunting today. There has been resistance to that yesterday, and today. The reason I think it is these numbers because of how Yolinda lurked out. He wouldn't have done so if he had more scum members along with him. It is possible the remaining scum team has no kill and the SK was killing all nights. It would explain why Maven had died. [Who scumread MPOLO]

If I'm lynched people will see that I have nothing to do with your result, and you must push Ryu on that the next day. There is something weird about Ryu yet people want to give him the benefit of the doubt.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby Evil George Washington » Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:41 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:I doubt EGW and mpolo would be in the same scum-team just because I think EGW would have prodded mpolo to post better reads, maybe even supplying some of them himself.


That is correct. I would not supply any reads myself, though. (Otherwise something like what happened between Bessie and PeacefulWhale might happen) I would instead tell him what he should be doing to improve his play. MPOLO seems to be un-aligned because he is pretty detached from the game and only feels like commenting every now and then. What is your top 2/top 4 currently now?

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Evil George Washington
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby Evil George Washington » Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:41 am UTC

Actually I need a full reads list from you, Sabrar.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby Evil George Washington » Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:46 am UTC

plytho wrote:
Evil George Washington wrote:- It makes you scum(my) because scum!you, knowing you intend to target bessie with the night kill might want to get a townie in the chat so you can get more influence on them there and get more information out of them than they might be willing to share in thread.


Why would I do that if I know you still intend to target Bessie? Would it be plausible for Scum!me to continue to kill Bessie when I would have other options? What is the long-term/short-term benefit and does this make sense alongside my play and role play?

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby Evil George Washington » Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:48 am UTC

plytho wrote:A reason for lynching EGW over mpolo is that EGW is in our chat and neither of us trusts him anymore.


Not a good reason. Try again.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby Evil George Washington » Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:50 am UTC

It's going to be deadline day soon. Support seems to be [EGW, MPOLO, Boom, Laser].

Pick which you feel has most support and most likelyness of being scum/SK.

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Evil George Washington
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby Evil George Washington » Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:50 am UTC

I'm going to sleep.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby LaserGuy » Thu Oct 26, 2017 3:16 am UTC

Evil George Washington wrote:
Sabrar wrote:I doubt EGW and mpolo would be in the same scum-team just because I think EGW would have prodded mpolo to post better reads, maybe even supplying some of them himself.


(Otherwise something like what happened between Bessie and PeacefulWhale might happen)


What do you mean by this?

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Evil George Washington
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby Evil George Washington » Thu Oct 26, 2017 3:18 am UTC

LaserGuy: I mean MPOLO might post reads very similar to mine as Peaceful Whale did with Bessie. I would not write things for him, as that would also make it easier for him and not challenge him as a player.

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Evil George Washington
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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby Evil George Washington » Thu Oct 26, 2017 3:19 am UTC

Hello Red Ryu, saw you there. Can you provide a full reads list with reasoning? Thank you.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby #HBC | Red Ryu » Thu Oct 26, 2017 3:52 am UTC

Right so past stuff,

EGW being scum? I can see the direction and if a strongman setup is possible I can see it but I would still need to consider. He has been consistently wrong but that’s not in itself condemning, I do think is last minute changes and constantly trying to force my role being scum is Waco.

Boom, no consistently his role conflicts with mine at one result and his back and forth reads still remain suspect to me. I want the Frog in my gone pile.

Madge, should have been lynched yesterday but for no reason is being town read. Only posting at “this slot” and role talk is not a town tell. In my can be lynched pile.

Mpolo is tough, never really got a firm read on this slot and it remains something i’ve Considered as a reason I wasn’t killed. That or scum has a strongman but if the information mpolo said is true. Nothing inheritly wrong with this slot but nothing to stick out.

Laser guy I think his push on EGW has some merit, but again I do not think being wrong nor his play is inheritly alone unless we also consider jumpy switches. Didn’t like earlier play but I am thinking if wool is over my eyes right now. Laser v EGW, i’d Trust EGW more but I want to consider this right now. At least adding in my frustration with some direction EGW pushed this game and right now.

Sabrar and Plytho can stick til end game.

That’s where I am at right now. I’ll be busy tomorrow,

What I want to read and consider is this.

1) does EGW make sense for being scum? Does being wrong and how he pushes make him scum? I’d still say no. I’s Like to hear from Sabrar and Plytho for insight.

2) I have zero reads from Madge and she needs to be held accountable.

3) has Boom’s Posts made sense and been somewhat consistent? Does it have a train of thought to it?

I’m leaning on lynching Madge and Frog first. Yeah I know I have been harping on this all game but I really think this is where we need to go. Boom in particular would shine a light on a lot of players if he flipped scum. I’m considering the other two, possibly three if I think about EGW. But I need to sleep, need to reread these three and see if those other players need another look at.

Going to bed for now.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby #HBC | Red Ryu » Thu Oct 26, 2017 3:56 am UTC

Also leaning no on there being a serial killer with one death per night and a big earlier with multiple indies dead.

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Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby Evil George Washington » Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:16 am UTC

#HBC | Red Ryu wrote:Sabrar and Plytho can stick til end game.


Can you go more into the why on this?

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Evil George Washington
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 2:04 am UTC

Re: Crossover Mafia | D5 | 10/26

Postby Evil George Washington » Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:19 am UTC

Sabrar, are you working on that reads list? I really want to know where your head is at now.


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