Secret Santa 2017 Endgame - Merry Christmas

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Sabrar
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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby Sabrar » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:42 am UTC

@Suzaku: hi there! So glad you could join us. You probably know this already but wam is scum because I said so and I'm well-known for my legendary scum-hunting abilities, especially on D1. :P

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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby bessie » Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:22 am UTC

Sorry everyone for disappearing, my game time was cut short last night because my dog bit me, and my hand is sore and bandaged. It’s my own fault though, it seems that I am still making the adjustment from a sixteen year old retired therapy dog to an energetic excitable fast moving two year old boy.

Sabrar wrote:You should also know that I welcome the discussion anyway. :)
And I'm sure that we shall! Did you miss this part?
bessie wrote:I am thinking about this and will come back to it later.


Sabrar wrote:And I understand that it is the point of the game to read many things even into the most innocent posts, however I do think that you're overanalyzing plytho.
Perhaps. But his content and style in this game thus far differs from his previous two, which I find interesting.

Sabrar wrote:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:@Sabrar, could you either explain why your vote on wam is serious, or point me to that explanation, please.
He is not a blue dragon.
Hmm, plytho is not the only player who’s content I find somewhat different, and thus, interesting.

Madge wrote:Sorry about missing a day there, work's busy lately (madge-perosna-life-update: submitted my final job application for a while, now supervising an intern which is time consuming). But I thought I'd check that in.
Good luck, I am confident that you will get one of the jobs for which you applied!

Not liking the remainder of this post by Madge.
Madge wrote: Moody has claimed somethign! That's interesting. I'm wary of redirectors - depending on how the ability works and your confidence level you may be better off not to use it. I'm notoriously unconfident though so that's where my brain goes; no doubt Sabrar, SDK, mpolo, others would have the confidence to use this power effectively; maybe channel them. That's probably what I'd do. But if it's a mass thing then I don't even. I think less scum knows the better. So: give it your best shot, and claim tomorrow. If you die overnight then we'll have to make the best of potentialyl contaminated results.
More subtle hints about how she’s not that great of a player (I disagree), and some advice to moody to go ahead and use his power and if he dies we can deal with contaminated night results? So, she’s already setting up a reason to doubt night results. Also, something is odd about her inclusion of Sabrar with two players not in this game in her list of players she thinks could effectively advise on moody’s power.

I get the impression that Madge only made a town-scum list because she’s expected to, and made sure to attach a disclaimer not to pay attention to the names on the ends. When pushed by wam as to who she would vote for, it would be for moody, who is in the middle of her list, because of his power (but she doesn’t intend on voting).

plytho wrote:I didn’t really make a conscious decision to develop a meta before. I felt like those discussions we had were part of plytho-meta, rather than scum!plytho-meta or town!plytho-meta, and I wouldn’t be able to avoid them in the future so I didn’t hold back in crossover. I’m not trying to develop a new meta in this game.
Since we never did finish our Crossover discussion (and it would be counterproductive to do so at this time) I will just consider this a misunderstanding on my part.

plytho wrote:Thanks. Though it’s invalid since LaserGuy stated that flavor is only flavor.
Yes but it gives us some insight as to how you are reading the game.

plytho wrote:Madge picking moody as her lynch target is inconsistent with her reads list.
She’s already conveniently added a disclaimer to her list.

Sabrar wrote:I'm trying not to spoon-feed everything to them. And I know I will be hated for that remark.
I really want to make a sarcastic comment here. :P

Liri wrote:I guess I'm also a little averse to just BSing reads on folks, but I haven't intended to be cagey or reticent about anything.
Why would you even think about BSing your reads when you could just give actual reads?

Liri wrote:Somi and I were asked who we'd feel comfortable voting for. Don't have much of an answer.

It's been the Wam-Sabrar back-and-forth for a bit now, but I don't think I've learned much.

When suspicion-laying gets into meta reasons I'm (quite) lost.
Well, look at it this way. You don’t have the burden of a lot of meta to influence you, and you can base your reads on content generated in this game. Who do you think is acting scummy here now and why?

Maven89 wrote:Real sorry but I’m going to need a replacement
Hope all is well. Come back and play with us again some time, you're always welcome.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote: bessie's tone continues to be what I'm used to from her. Hefty doses of sarcasm and aggression, mixed in with a little bit of joking about insignificant things ("Sabrar is a fluffy puppy"), and helping newbies (see her comments about Liri). Aside from her FoS of Madge though, there's not been much recent sign of what she thinks of other players. Still probably town though, but needs more opinions on players, and not just constant needling of them.
Show me proof that Sabrar is not a puppy. Then you can accuse me of posting fluff.

Really, I think you have played enough games with me to know that this is my style. I go through the game post by post, answer questions, and pick out things I find interesting, and compose my posts out of my notes (my needling). I just skimmed over my content thus far and I think you do have a point in that Madge has been the recipient of much of my needling, but that is because I find much of her content suspicious.

Sabrar wrote:Btw I sympathize with this completely.
Noted.

moody7277 wrote:nothing about me from the other people
I didn’t see the need to keep pushing for information on your power.

Suzaku wrote:Have been reading along but not closely following the thread so far. If anyone wanted to post a summary of the cases on the top, say, three scum candidates (excluding me, of course) that would be helpful.
Thank you Suzaku for replacing. That’s an interesting request, why not just ask everyone for their reads or town scum list? Why only interested in where the wagon is going?

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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby Sabrar » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:00 am UTC

bessie wrote:And I'm sure that we shall! Did you miss this part?
Didn't miss it, was more of a general comment.

bessie wrote:Noted.
Secret-mason-high-five? :wink:

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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby plytho » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:16 am UTC

I have a busy day today but I intend to get a proper reads list and vote out tonight.
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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby plytho » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:24 am UTC

moody7277 wrote:
plytho wrote:
moody7277 wrote:@plytho: Your other question was when I decided I was pushing the button on my power, right? I did it about the same time as I voted for wam.
How did we convince you to push the button?


I had collected reactions from enough people that a. I think town is sufficiently braced for Winter is coming variant power results and b. I can use the reactions as read fodder.
So you weren't actually trying to get input from town and were only warning us/getting responses off us? Neither a nor b seem like arguments for or against using your power tonight.


Also, why do you selectively answer my questions?
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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:57 am UTC

Hi Suzaku! There aren't any clear lynch wagons, but there are two or three possible ones. Here's my digest of where things seem to stand (note - this is done entirely off my memory, and may miss several significant details):
Madge - one of the current top lynch candidates, with 2(?) votes, including mine. Posted a wine-soaked discussion over her trying to change her town meta. Followed it up with an ordered list with so many caveats it became unhelpful, especially when she then said she'd vote for the fourth player on her list, not one of her to one's (moody).
Wam - been in big discussion with Sabrar, who thinks you and he are scum buddies, due the wam bringing up Maven as the mods' problem "out of the blue". Also looked like he was fishing for more details about moody's claim. Has one or two votes on him currently.
Moody - claimed mass-redirection power early and much of content around him discusses that. He apparently was seeking input early, but seems to have decided to use it early independent of any input, and supposedly rowed back on willingness to listen to others.
Sabrar - has had very weird posting style versus his usual. Consistently refusing to answer questions or giving unhelpful answers. Seems very certain about his reads.

I think that about sums up the main suspicions.
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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:12 am UTC

Liri wrote:Somi and I were asked who we'd feel comfortable voting for. Don't have much of an answer.

It's been the Wam-Sabrar back-and-forth for a bit now, but I don't think I've learned much.

When suspicion-laying gets into meta reasons I'm (quite) lost.
Liri, I've just posted a summary of the scummiest play so far (in my opinion). What do you think about the cases mentioned? Do you agree or disagree on them? Are you planning on voting by deadline?
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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby wam » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:25 am UTC

Welcome suzaku. Jimbob has out together a reasonable summary. I am liking jimbob s latest posts.

plytho wrote:
moody7277 wrote:
plytho wrote:
moody7277 wrote:@plytho: Your other question was when I decided I was pushing the button on my power, right? I did it about the same time as I voted for wam.
How did we convince you to push the button?


I had collected reactions from enough people that a. I think town is sufficiently braced for Winter is coming variant power results and b. I can use the reactions as read fodder.
So you weren't actually trying to get input from town and were only warning us/getting responses off us? Neither a nor b seem like arguments for or against using your power tonight.


Also, why do you selectively answer my questions?


This was the same point I brought up that moody seems to have ignored. He has changed from input to notification.

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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby plytho » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:24 pm UTC

moody7277 wrote:@plytho: Your other question was when I decided I was pushing the button on my power, right? I did it about the same time as I voted for wam.
This is a lie. I asked my question before you voted wam.
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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby Sabrar » Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:03 pm UTC

@plytho: you're not reading correctly what moody is saying.

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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby moody7277 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:30 pm UTC

bessie wrote:I didn’t see the need to keep pushing for information on your power.


Which in a double-negative kind of way is townie.

plytho wrote:So you weren't actually trying to get input from town and were only warning us/getting responses off us? Neither a nor b seem like arguments for or against using your power tonight.


Also, why do you selectively answer my questions?


Had I gotten anything like a yes or no I would have taken it into consideration. All I got was "you really shouldn't have claimed that now" and wam's "claim everything now, you promised". :roll: Second thing, mostly a bad habit.

This is a lie. I asked my question before you voted wam.


I decided to activate my power the same time I voted wam. I am very disturbed by your characterization of that as a lie, it was your misinterpretation.
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby plytho » Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:43 pm UTC

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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby Liri » Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:50 pm UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:
Liri wrote:Somi and I were asked who we'd feel comfortable voting for. Don't have much of an answer.

It's been the Wam-Sabrar back-and-forth for a bit now, but I don't think I've learned much.

When suspicion-laying gets into meta reasons I'm (quite) lost.
Liri, I've just posted a summary of the scummiest play so far (in my opinion). What do you think about the cases mentioned? Do you agree or disagree on them? Are you planning on voting by deadline?

I like how your analyses read. I'm not sure I totally follow the thinking behind Madge, but I don't have any reason to disbelieve you. Talking openly about resetting her meta I get as a bit off; like, why not just do it?

The rationale behind the other three I get, moreso. Moody's concern about making the nighttime stuff all wiggy came across as earnest at first. Being mum about specifics does seem like a pre-apology to remove suspicion. But, if he is town he wouldn't want to give any more away that could help scum. I saw you guys have some meta stuff with claiming abilities early on, but it seems like an odd one to want to claim.

I don't know how Sabrar's play is differing from his usual, but the self-assurance about reads and almost facetious overconfidence is suspect.

Kinda the same with Wam - the interactions between he and Sabrar make it look like one of them is an indy (there are lots of different indies, right?) or scum. Typing it up now though, I don't have a huge reason to suspect Wam.

If I was needed to cast a tie-breaking vote, I probably would.
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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby moody7277 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:24 pm UTC



Timeline
1. 4Dec 722am
2. 4Dec 939am
*PM activating my power 4Dec 1005am*
3. 4Dec 1021am
4. 4Dec 1150am
5. 4Dec 430pm
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby plytho » Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:36 pm UTC

Thanks, I didn't realize you were talking about submitting your action.

My question wasn't about when you submitted your action but about when you decided to use your action tonight instead of withholding.
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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby moody7277 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:49 pm UTC

plytho wrote:Thanks, I didn't realize you were talking about submitting your action.

My question wasn't about when you submitted your action but about when you decided to use your action tonight instead of withholding.


Those were simultaneous.
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby plytho » Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:58 pm UTC

Still confused..

So you're saying all of these were simultaneous?
moody7277 wrote:Timeline
1. 4Dec 722am
2. 4Dec 939am
*PM activating my power 4Dec 1005am*
3. 4Dec 1021am


Or "yes I have decided to go ahead with it tonight" in this post doesn't refer to using your power?
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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby Sabrar » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:03 pm UTC

And now we see why plytho wanted so hard to establish his stubbornness as non-alignment-indicative.

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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby moody7277 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:09 pm UTC

plytho wrote:Still confused..

So you're saying all of these were simultaneous?
moody7277 wrote:Timeline
1. 4Dec 722am
2. 4Dec 939am
*PM activating my power 4Dec 1005am*
3. 4Dec 1021am


Or "yes I have decided to go ahead with it tonight" in this post doesn't refer to using your power?


If there had been any negative reaction to my using the redirection between the post you cite and event 2.5, I would not have sent the PM.

If there is a bunch of people (besides wam, I'm discounting his opinion on this) who still don't want me to, I can cancel the use.

I have gotten ZERO yes or no calls on it. The only reactions I have seen are those I detailed previously.
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby Sabrar » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:51 pm UTC

I abstain.

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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby wam » Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:21 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:I abstain.


From?
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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby wam » Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:30 pm UTC

liri wrote:
If I was needed to cast a tie-breaking vote, I probably would.


This is ringing alarm bells for me. However it can also be seen in a newbie light. So I am torn.

Liri my view is that end of the day it is very beneficial to town to have everyone voting. Or if it would cause a hammer stating they would vote if it wouldn't cause a hammer.
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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby Liri » Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:43 pm UTC

wam wrote:
liri wrote:
If I was needed to cast a tie-breaking vote, I probably would.


This is ringing alarm bells for me. However it can also be seen in a newbie light. So I am torn.

Liri my view is that end of the day it is very beneficial to town to have everyone voting. Or if it would cause a hammer stating they would vote if it wouldn't cause a hammer.

Ooh. I didn't know that was weird.
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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby Sabrar » Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:46 pm UTC

wam wrote:
Sabrar wrote:I abstain.


From?

From giving moody a yes or no. Wasn't that obvious? Apparently not.

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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby plytho » Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:48 pm UTC

@Bessie: could you explain why moody and wam are in your bottom three? I can't really conclude that from your posts.
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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby wam » Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:54 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
wam wrote:
Sabrar wrote:I abstain.


From?

From giving moody a yes or no. Wasn't that obvious? Apparently not.


I thought it probably was but wanted an answer. Seems an odd thing to post given that moody has already submitted the action.
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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby moody7277 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:55 pm UTC

@Liri & somi

I am sure you two have been reading along on my mass redirection issue. I would like your impressions and a yea or nay on my using it.
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby wam » Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:58 pm UTC

Liri wrote:
wam wrote:
liri wrote:
If I was needed to cast a tie-breaking vote, I probably would.


This is ringing alarm bells for me. However it can also be seen in a newbie light. So I am torn.

Liri my view is that end of the day it is very beneficial to town to have everyone voting. Or if it would cause a hammer stating they would vote if it wouldn't cause a hammer.

Ooh. I didn't know that was weird.


The reasoning behind it is as follows. Scum want to swing the lynch away from teammates if they are one of the options. By saying things like I will tie break it can be scum keeping their options open.
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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby wam » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:00 pm UTC

wam wrote:
Sabrar wrote:
wam wrote:
Sabrar wrote:I abstain.


From?

From giving moody a yes or no. Wasn't that obvious? Apparently not.


I thought it probably was but wanted an answer. Seems an odd thing to post given that moody has already submitted the action.


And then I read moodys if lots of people say I shouldn't use it line and it makes far more sense.

My view at this point is use it. But I know I don't count.
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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby Sabrar » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:22 pm UTC

I've concluded that somitomi is the indie. Of course he'll never admit it, not after X-Men.

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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:27 pm UTC

I do have an opinion on moody's power usage, which I'll post once Liri and somitomi have stated their opinions. I don't want Liri in particular to be simply following what others have said. Regardless, it won't likely be until the morning, as I am out all evening tonight.
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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby Liri » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:34 pm UTC

Moody might as well use it, unless he thinks it'll somehow be useful later.

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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby LaserGuy » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:40 pm UTC

Current votals:

wam (2) - Sabrar, moody7277
Madge (2) - wam, jimbobmacdoodle

Not voting: bessie, somitomi, Liri, Madge, plytho, Suzaku

Reminder that tied votes result in a No Lynch.

Deadline in 1 days, 23 hours.

Please remember that any night actions you have need to be submitted before the end of day.

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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby Sabrar » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:43 pm UTC

We need at least 2 more votes on wam because Suzaku will vote Madge.

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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby somitomi » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:45 pm UTC

Hi, Suzaku!

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:@somitomi - you have explained your concerns with Madge and moody. What about wam?

Huh, I forgot to update my read on wam. :oops:
I was pinged a little by the odd reason he gave for keeping his joke-vote on bessie, especially since noone really asked about it IIRC. His exchange with Sabrar and moody seems more townie to me, so that moves him up towards the neutral line.
moody7277 wrote:@Liri & somi
I am sure you two have been reading along on my mass redirection issue. I would like your impressions and a yea or nay on my using it.

As mentioned before, I have my suspicions regarding the motive behind that claim, I think you should share exactly what you did before anyone else does on D2. On the other hand, it would give scum the opportunity to adjust their claims accordingly in case you're not one of them. I really, honestly don't know and that makes me think it's better if you don't use it.

Sabrar wrote:I've concluded that somitomi is the indie. Of course he'll never admit it, not after X-Men.

Well of course I wouldn't, not when you are in the game... :P
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Sabrar
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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby Sabrar » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:57 pm UTC

I'll allow jimbob to enter Core Town though he needs to unvote at some point.

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wam
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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby wam » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:57 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:We need at least 2 more votes on wam because Suzaku will vote Madge.


If I was suddenly day killed and flipped town who would your next choice be?
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Sabrar
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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby Sabrar » Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:01 pm UTC

somitomi

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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby moody7277 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:03 pm UTC

somitomi wrote: I think you should share exactly what you did before anyone else does on D2.


Interestingly enough, this was wam's exact suggestion as well.
The story of my life in xkcdmafia:

Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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wam
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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby wam » Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:34 pm UTC

moody7277 wrote:
somitomi wrote: I think you should share exactly what you did before anyone else does on D2.


Interestingly enough, this was wam's exact suggestion as well.


As its the only one that stops it having a negative effect on town powers overnight, which seemed to be the main thing you were going for?

This is an interesting choice
Sabrar wrote:somitomi


Care to offer an explanation of the choice, surely lynching an indy is a waste of a lynch?

Having gone back through Sabrrar's posts this is the second mention of somi in the entire game, the previous being stating that Somi is the indy.

Going back through Sabrar's posts I noticed a few other interesting things.

1) Sabrar's RVs was on me as well which ties into the lyncher theory above.
2) Sabrar's initial read of Madge was scummy or at least that's my impression, it is never openly stated.

Spoiler:
Sabrar wrote:
Madge wrote:since if I was scum surely with new awareness of my propensity for unreasonably early claiming I'd, well, claim unreasonably early and laugh all the way to the bank?
Seriously? And you didn't find anything wrong with that plan?


Spoiler:
Sabrar wrote:
Madge wrote:I'd ask you why that would be a bad idea
Any tell becomes void once public exactly because it can be faked. So you wouldn't have earned any townie-points.


Switching to a town read.

Spoiler:
Sabrar wrote:And I know bessie will disagree but Madge is Town. Your evaluation of her is consistently wrong.


So given that you never gave a reason why the switch? I am asking as you seem very keen to avoid a madge lynch.

I think plytho has a point that moody's story doesn't seem to quite line up. I also felt I hadn't got a good read on plytho yet this game so I went back and read their posts in isolation. I like what I am reading but I do want to see the reads list promised as most of the recent content has been on the moody claim.
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