Secret Santa 2017 Endgame - Merry Christmas

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somitomi
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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby somitomi » Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:42 pm UTC

moody7277 wrote:
somitomi wrote: I think you should share exactly what you did before anyone else does on D2.


Interestingly enough, this was wam's exact suggestion as well.

Sure, but that's not my suggestion, just part of the reasoning behind my suggestion.
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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby wam » Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:59 pm UTC

somitomi wrote:
moody7277 wrote:
somitomi wrote: I think you should share exactly what you did before anyone else does on D2.


Interestingly enough, this was wam's exact suggestion as well.

Sure, but that's not my suggestion, just part of the reasoning behind my suggestion.


Having read the reasoning you gave initially I am slightly confused as to your exact reasoning. Can you explain?
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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby Sabrar » Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:12 pm UTC

wam wrote:Care to offer an explanation of the choice, surely lynching an indy is a waste of a lynch?
Since when? If he's anti-town we need to lynch him at some point or another. Plus if you happen to be Town then he is probably scum by PoE.

wam wrote:2) Sabrar's initial read of Madge was scummy or at least that's my impression, it is never openly stated.
Definitely your impression.

wam wrote:So given that you never gave a reason why the switch?
No switch. Wanted to have a reaction and was satisfied with it.

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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby wam » Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:42 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
wam wrote:Care to offer an explanation of the choice, surely lynching an indy is a waste of a lynch?
Since when? If he's anti-town we need to lynch him at some point or another. Plus if you happen to be Town then he is probably scum by PoE.

Ignoring them is the best option. What indy (other than SK) is actively bad for town if they are ignored?
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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby Sabrar » Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:44 pm UTC

wam wrote:Ignoring them is the best option. What indy (other than SK) is actively bad for town if they are ignored?
Any of them if they can play kingmaker in LYLO.

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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby wam » Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:50 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
wam wrote:Ignoring them is the best option. What indy (other than SK) is actively bad for town if they are ignored?
Any of them if they can play kingmaker in LYLO.


That is true.

Going back to the point I was trying to make, why do you think somi is an indy and do you not have any other scum reads other than me and ones that depend on the link to me (Maven/suzaku)?
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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby Sabrar » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:18 pm UTC

somitomi is too quiet for my taste. No actual scum-reads but I'm a bit bothered by plytho.

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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby somitomi » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:21 pm UTC

wam wrote:Having read the reasoning you gave initially I am slightly confused as to your exact reasoning. Can you explain?

Well, we agree that scum!moody should claim first on D2 so they can't fake it based on the results and claims of others. However, if town!moody claims first, scum can adjust their fake-claims accordingly so it would make sense for town!moody to claim last. I can't see a way to resolve this other than not using moody's power at all. I'm also not sure if using it would benefit town, since it could cause trouble as well
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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby Sabrar » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:40 pm UTC

wam wrote:Having gone back through Sabrrar's posts this is the second mention of somi in the entire game, the previous being stating that Somi is the indy.
Could you look up all the times you interacted with somitomi? I don't think it's a very long list.

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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby plytho » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:44 pm UTC

Liri wrote:Kinda the same with Wam - the interactions between he and Sabrar make it look like one of them is an indy (there are lots of different indies, right?) or scum. Typing it up now though, I don't have a huge reason to suspect Wam.

Liri, the bolded seems like a strange question to ask, why did you ask it?

Here’s an answer: Third party roles on mafiascum wiki. The most common indies (I’ve seen them or heard about them before on this forum) are jester, lyncher, serial killer and survivor. (and cult but they are definitely not in this game). Variations on these are possible.
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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby plytho » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:48 pm UTC

Also you said you think one of them is indie or scum. Do you think it's more likely one of them is indie rather than scum? Why?
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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby plytho » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:49 pm UTC

Reads coming up btw, I'm going alphabetically and I'm at L for Liri now.
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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby wam » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:51 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
wam wrote:Having gone back through Sabrrar's posts this is the second mention of somi in the entire game, the previous being stating that Somi is the indy.
Could you look up all the times you interacted with somitomi? I don't think it's a very long list.


I could but if you want to make a point why don't you? :twisted:

The main difference being I am not arguing for a somitomi lynch.
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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby wam » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:54 pm UTC

wam wrote:
Sabrar wrote:
wam wrote:Having gone back through Sabrrar's posts this is the second mention of somi in the entire game, the previous being stating that Somi is the indy.
Could you look up all the times you interacted with somitomi? I don't think it's a very long list.


I could but if you want to make a point why don't you? :twisted:

The main difference being I am not arguing for a somitomi lynch.


And by a somi lynch I mean as my second choice, I know your main preference is to lynch me.
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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby Liri » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:57 pm UTC

@plytho it was an honest question

Rereading through things now
There's a certain amount of freedom involved in cycling: you're self-propelled and decide exactly where to go. If you see something that catches your eye to the left, you can veer off there, which isn't so easy in a car, and you can't cover as much ground walking.

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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby Sabrar » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:06 pm UTC

wam wrote:I could but if you want to make a point why don't you? :twisted:
My point is that the quoted line of yours added nothing to the discussion and had no relevance.

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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby wam » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:07 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
wam wrote:I could but if you want to make a point why don't you? :twisted:
My point is that the quoted line of yours added nothing to the discussion and had no relevance.


I disagree (again). It is unusual to go from no comments to second choice for a lynch.
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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby Sabrar » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:16 pm UTC

He is not second choice for a lynch as we're talking of a hypothetical scenario that gives us new information. Don't confuse the two.

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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby wam » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:30 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:He is not second choice for a lynch as we're talking of a hypothetical scenario that gives us new information. Don't confuse the two.


Ok. Then who is your second choice for lynch. Or third if you are thinking a wam suzukaku team.
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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby Liri » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:44 pm UTC

Liri wrote:@plytho it was an honest question

Rereading through things now

Read Wam's posts in isolation and nothing strikes me as being worthy of a great deal of suspicion. Moves much closer to town in my estimation.

Being asked for content, my first instinct towards the asker has been, "okay, they're definitely town," but I'm realizing that playing the elder states(wo)man towards the noob is an easy way to win them (me) over. Not that I'm now thinking they're scummy, just more cautious.
There's a certain amount of freedom involved in cycling: you're self-propelled and decide exactly where to go. If you see something that catches your eye to the left, you can veer off there, which isn't so easy in a car, and you can't cover as much ground walking.

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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby Sabrar » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:52 pm UTC

wam wrote:Then who is your second choice for lynch.
Why would I need one?

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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby wam » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:00 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
wam wrote:Then who is your second choice for lynch.
Why would I need one?


What if everyone disagrees with you and we end up with two lynch options that aren't me. Also your absolute certainty is not townie. Town tend to have more doubts.

Liri wrote:Being asked for content, my first instinct towards the asker has been, "okay, they're definitely town," but I'm realizing that playing the elder states(wo)man towards the noob is an easy way to win them (me) over. Not that I'm now thinking they're scummy, just more cautious.


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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby Sabrar » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:05 pm UTC

wam wrote:Also your absolute certainty is not townie. Town tend to have more doubts.
Or not.

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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby Sabrar » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:35 pm UTC

@wam: in your opinion who is Madge's scum-buddy and why?

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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby wam » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:49 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:@wam: in your opinion who is Madge's scum-buddy and why?


Good question. My answer moody. He is pushing the alternative lynch of.me. his reasoning is separate to your s and I think it's based on a mis reading of my posts he doesn't seem to be willing to reconsider. He says I have been pushing for details. I thought he was asking town for opinion on whether he should post them. So I answered.

If not moody I would look at you but that doesn't tie up with my read (and others) that scum sabrar wouldn't draw this much attention.
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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:08 pm UTC

Haven't thought about it too much yet, but I don't think Madge and moody make much sense as a scum team, given her earlier stated preference to vote moody. She would look very suspicious if moody was a viable lynch candidate, but not nailed on, if she were to not back it then, especially if it went through, when she could have pushed the alternative.

I will be reviewing Madge's content tomorrow. So far, I haven't seen anything that gives me the same confidence that Sabrar has that she is town.

@Sabrar, are you willing to explain your Madge read, because I'm not seeing it.
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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby plytho » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:09 pm UTC

Bessie: Bessie keeps feeling like regular bessie. Although there’s usually more reasoning accompanying her reads lists. Tiny speck of suspicion there.

Jimbob: Solid reasoning on everyone. Pushing and prodding where needed. probably town. (probably not indie)

Liri: I think Liri is newbtown but that one question has me thinking there’s a small chance he may be indie.

Madge: I think madge is town. Saying she’d vote moody instead of someone lower on her reads list feels more like townie honesty than a scum slip. Also, I don’t think Sabrar and Madge are scum together so if Sabrar is scum I think Madge is town, if he’s town I trust his judgement on Madge. (probably not indie)

Moody: I believe his claim but his behavior around it is pretty weird. He’s been inconsistent about his intentions and I feel he’s been dodging my questions about them. I don’t like it. scummy (probably not indie)

Sabrar: I still feel like Sabrar is experimenting with his meta this game and I think he’d more likely do so as town than as scum.

Somitomi: as others pointed out, not that active, I can see why Sabrar thinks indie. He isn’t doing any scumhunting. I think somitomi may be scum.

Suzaku: didn’t manage to get caught up?

Wam: Wam seems quite reasonable in isolation and is handling Sabrar’s attacks well. It’s only that line about him being semi-serious about keeping his vote on bessie that’s odd.

Town
Jimbobmacdoodle
Liri
Bessie
Sabrar
Madge
wam
Suzaku
Somitomi
moody
Scum


This list was really tough to make. I keep finding reasons why people are town. It's bedtime now.
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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby wam » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:18 pm UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Haven't thought about it too much yet, but I don't think Madge and moody make much sense as a scum team, given her earlier stated preference to vote moody. She would look very suspicious if moody was a viable lynch candidate, but not nailed on, if she were to not back it then, especially if it went through, when she could have pushed the alternative.

I will be reviewing Madge's content tomorrow. So far, I haven't seen anything that gives me the same confidence that Sabrar has that she is town.

@Sabrar, are you willing to explain your Madge read, because I'm not seeing it.


I hadn't really looked at the Madge to moody link was looking the other way. However I going back I read it differently. If Madge was voting moody I would agree, however, as she has stated she won't vote day 1. Putting moody would be her pick then not actually voting would flag up as distancing.
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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby wam » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:20 pm UTC

Ebwop


I hadn't really looked at the Madge to moody link was looking the other way. However I going back I read it differently. If Madge was voting moody I would agree, however, she has stated she won't vote day 1. Putting moody would be her pick then not actually voting flags up as distancing.

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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby Sabrar » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:33 am UTC

@jimbob: Madge is not the criminal mastermind bessie believes her to be.

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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby bessie » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:18 am UTC

moody7277 wrote: Had I gotten anything like a yes or no I would have taken it into consideration. All I got was "you really shouldn't have claimed that now" and wam's "claim everything now, you promised".
Ok, it’s been discussed enough that I’ll chime in. I didn’t want to push discussing your power too much because if you give out details of how your power works, then it will become useless. My opinion is that you shouldn’t have claimed, and I find it suspicious that you did claim. I am not a fan of players claiming on D1, and I’ve said this before. For an example, see this post from Crossover.

I think that if you want to use your power, ok, you’re not a newbie, you’re experienced enough to decide whether or not it’s the right call. But why claim it first? You could have claimed on D2, and then we could have worked out any night results. And if you die, we still might be able to work it out.
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And as to my opinion as to whether or not you should use it, I too abstain from offering an opinion. If you are scum, you will use it or not, and you will tell us truth or you will lie and we won’t know which. If you are town, you have already given information to scum and there is no need to give them more.

Liri wrote:If I was needed to cast a tie-breaking vote, I probably would.
Liri, it’s important for townies to vote, or scum can control the lynch. This comment implies that you don’t really have an opinion on who is scum and who is town, or you don’t care. Like you won't commit to a read, but you do care about making sure that you’re available to decide the lynch.

Sabrar wrote:And now we see why plytho wanted so hard to establish his stubbornness as non-alignment-indicative.
So are you implying that plytho is purposely trying to develop this as his meta? Because he already claimed otherwise here. Or are you saying that plytho is just naturally stubborn, like...like maybe...you?

Suzaku wrote:We need at least 2 more votes on wam because Suzaku will vote Madge.
At least if he voted he would be contributing something to the game.

somitomi wrote:
Sabrar wrote:I've concluded that somitomi is the indie. Of course he'll never admit it, not after X-Men.

Well of course I wouldn't, not when you are in the game... :P
Would you admit it if Sabrar were not in the game?

Sabrar wrote:I'll allow jimbob to enter Core Town though he needs to unvote at some point.
Sabrar, are you more interested in lynching scum or not lynching Madge?

Liri wrote:Read Wam's posts in isolation and nothing strikes me as being worthy of a great deal of suspicion. Moves much closer to town in my estimation.

Being asked for content, my first instinct towards the asker has been, "okay, they're definitely town," but I'm realizing that playing the elder states(wo)man towards the noob is an easy way to win them (me) over. Not that I'm now thinking they're scummy, just more cautious.
Liri, do you have a solid opinion on anyone? Please make a town-scum list, with no groupings.

plytho wrote:Although there’s usually more reasoning accompanying her reads lists.
Noted. I will try to compile all my reads in to a list. I think everything is out there, just spread out among my posts.

Sabrar wrote:@jimbob: Madge is not the criminal mastermind bessie believes her to be.
Sabrar, I think (yet again) you underestimate Madge. I know you did the big meta read of her for Crossover, but you were scum, and you had reason for wanting to keep her in the game, as she was busy, overwhelmed, and not following the game closely (and for the gameplay reasons that she was jailed, could lose her vote, and would probably never gain a power). Her content this game has been winey, she doesn't intend to vote, why are you so determined she's town?

Vote: Madge

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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby Sabrar » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:29 am UTC

bessie wrote:Sabrar, are you more interested in lynching scum or not lynching Madge?
What a strange question to ask. The former. If you lynch Madge then no matter how she flips it will be a win-win for me so I won't do any craziness like claim a Day-Cop result on her but I don't think it's in Town's best interest to do so.
I'll give a more detailed read on Madge in a while.

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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby wam » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:35 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:
bessie wrote:Sabrar, are you more interested in lynching scum or not lynching Madge?
What a strange question to ask. The former. If you lynch Madge then no matter how she flips it will be a win-win for me so I won't do any craziness like claim a Day-Cop result on her but I don't think it's in Town's best interest to do so.
I'll give a more detailed read on Madge in a while.


How is it a win if Madge flips town?
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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby Sabrar » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:36 am UTC

I get to say I told you so.

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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby Sabrar » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:50 am UTC

bessie wrote:I know you did the big meta read of her for Crossover, but you were scum, and you had reason for wanting to keep her in the game, as she was busy, overwhelmed, and not following the game closely (and for the gameplay reasons that she was jailed, could lose her vote, and would probably never gain a power).
At the beginning I defended her because that's exactly what town!Sabrar would have done. Of course the only player who could have called me out on that was scum with me so that was a bit misguided. Later all the reasons you listed came into play but my original case on her was word-for-word what I would have posted as Town as well.

bessie wrote:Her content this game has been winey, she doesn't intend to vote, why are you so determined she's town?
- Madge writes stream-of-conciousness and probably rarely bothers to edit before hitting submit. Her talking about how she wants to change her meta and what she would have done as scum is not wine, it's just Madge being herself.
- I've addressed Madge not voting in Crossover already, that's not a tell. I mean you should be fully aware of this, especially after Crossover.
- Basically I believe that this was truly her plan and this didn't occur to her.

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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:12 am UTC

Plytho, why no vote yet?

Just a reminder to those who may have missed it, tied votals result in No Lynch. I'll be around at deadline, but at work, so may or may not be in a position to change votes late on.

On moody's power usage, as promised: I think bessie kind of summarised what would have been optimal originally, assuming town!moody. I think he's overly concerned by frustrated townie-kickback. However, I was considering advising against using it, before he said he would, the reason being that we have the most players with powers now, and it would be helpful for everyone to get reliable results. However, much more importantly, I'd have advised that he keeps his decision to himself, because it makes it harder for scum to work around his ability. I think I still stand by both points, although I had previously decided to back down on the don't use it bit, since moody seemed to have made his decision already.
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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby plytho » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:01 am UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Plytho, why no vote yet?

Because I keep doubting myself. As I finished my list last night I started thinking about town vs scum motivations to claim or not claim mass redirector and I feel scum loses a very powerful tool by claiming. It’s an awesome power for scum because it messes up a bunch of results from town. Giving this up for possible town credit is a strange move. So I don’t want to vote moody at this point. (and I need to find him another place on the list.)

If I had to choose between the two current wagons I’d choose wam, but I don’t think the evidence against him is sufficiently damning.
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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby Suzaku » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:23 am UTC

Well, yesterday was a write off (got home at midnight), so I'm actually going to get into a proper read now.

Back with a post in about an hour, I'd guess.
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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby Suzaku » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:47 am UTC

OK, some quick responses to stuff directed at me, first.

Sabrar wrote:@Suzaku: hi there! So glad you could join us. You probably know this already but wam is scum because I said so and I'm well-known for my legendary scum-hunting abilities, especially on D1. :P

Hope this doesn't ride on me being his scumbuddy, 'cause I'm town through and through so if it does then you're wrong.

bessie wrote:
Suzaku wrote:Have been reading along but not closely following the thread so far. If anyone wanted to post a summary of the cases on the top, say, three scum candidates (excluding me, of course) that would be helpful.
Thank you Suzaku for replacing. That’s an interesting request, why not just ask everyone for their reads or town scum list? Why only interested in where the wagon is going?

Partly because we're quite close to deadline and I have very little time at present, so a focus on any likely waggons would be more helpful to me than a lot of town reads, and partly because I hopes to get a few people to actually write down cases on the people they want me to vote for. Figured it would give me some focus for doing in-iso reads of certain players.
And who knows, might also refocus others to think who they want to vote for.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Hi Suzaku! There aren't any clear lynch wagons, but there are two or three possible ones. Here's my digest of where things seem to stand (note - this is done entirely off my memory, and may miss several significant details):
Madge - one of the current top lynch candidates, with 2(?) votes, including mine. Posted a wine-soaked discussion over her trying to change her town meta. Followed it up with an ordered list with so many caveats it became unhelpful, especially when she then said she'd vote for the fourth player on her list, not one of her to one's (moody).
Wam - been in big discussion with Sabrar, who thinks you and he are scum buddies, due the wam bringing up Maven as the mods' problem "out of the blue". Also looked like he was fishing for more details about moody's claim. Has one or two votes on him currently.
Moody - claimed mass-redirection power early and much of content around him discusses that. He apparently was seeking input early, but seems to have decided to use it early independent of any input, and supposedly rowed back on willingness to listen to others.
Sabrar - has had very weird posting style versus his usual. Consistently refusing to answer questions or giving unhelpful answers. Seems very certain about his reads.

I think that about sums up the main suspicions.

Thank you, that will be very useful. Will do an initial read through focusing on these.

Sabrar wrote:We need at least 2 more votes on wam because Suzaku will vote Madge.

You seem very sure of that. Like to hear your reasoning why, mate?

OK, so adding a few overall thoughts.
Sabrar's definitely acting weird, but I'll put that down to Secret Santa Shenanigans for now.

moody has claimed a redirect power and plans to use it. Not sure I'm in favour of that, as (unless he can reliably redirect a harmful action away from a townie) all it generally does is spread confusion. I think that claiming it in advance is a townie move (modulo wine, of course). See the backlash he copped in SS2015 when he dropped a random redirect bomb on N1.

OK, quick votal count and then off to read read read.

Unofficial Votals:

wam (2) - Sabrar, moody7277
Madge (3) - wam, jimbobmacdoodle, bessie

Not voting: somitomi, Liri, Madge, plytho, Suzaku

10 alive, 6 to lynch.
Tied votes result in a No Lynch.

Deadline in 29 hours.
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Suzaku
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Re: Secret Santa Day 1 - Carol of the Elves

Postby Suzaku » Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:38 pm UTC

Madge:
Not convinced at all by the waggon on her. There's a bit of fluff discussion around meta and claiming, but TBH it reads pretty much like standard I-don't-like-D1-Madge to me. If it weren't Madge then a case for active lurking could be made, but D1 Madge gets a pass on that. The reads list (or rather the essential lack of it) is a bit worse, but I really don't see it as that bad.

moody:
Not seeing this either. Again, I'd prefer not to have redirection used (previous caveat applies), but he seems to have a thought out plan that he reckons is beneficial to town. If he's still around D2 we'll judge him on the outcome of that and if not we won't have to.

wam:
Can kind of see this - has a scum read (and vote) on Madge, but hasn't really said what he thinks of anyone else. Spending a lot of time in conversation with Sabrar (well, responding to Sabrar needling, anyway), which is understandable but to the detriment of of other content. Could be scum using the converstaion as a smokescreen, could even be a Sabrar/wam scum team and a pretty epic bus. Note that this is something I'd totally believe Sabrar to be capable of.

Sabrar:
What have you been smoking and where can I get some?
Definitely something strange here, but whether role-required, scum play, or something else I really can't tell. Is on point with some of the needles on wam, though, and I kind of agree with his read of Madge. Still, one of the most dangerous scum players I can recall playing with before, so the unusual behaviour can't be written off.

If I had to vote now I'd vote wam, but since I don't I'm going to read more and wait for some (hopefully enlightening) results.

I'll be around on line for another hour or so if anyone wants to ask me anything.
Pronouns: he/him/his > they/them/their >> it/it/its
Time Zone: JST (UTC+9)
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Some guy on the Internet wrote:The thing about the inevitable, it has a bad habit of actually happening.


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