Newbie New Year Mafia - D5

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flicky1991
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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby flicky1991 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:24 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:
flicky1991 wrote:I would consider changing my vote to Madge if there's still a tie and deadline is close, since I don't want a No Lynch.


What's your read on Madge? Why do you think she's mafia?
It's edged towards a scum lean (and I'm not sure why people are acting like this has come out of nowhere since she was on my lynchable list in response to Sabrar's question). It is kind of a gut feeling and I'm not sure how much it was influenced by other people, but the sudden change of heart on claiming was a tipping point.
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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby LaserGuy » Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:28 pm UTC

flicky1991 wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:
flicky1991 wrote:I would consider changing my vote to Madge if there's still a tie and deadline is close, since I don't want a No Lynch.


What's your read on Madge? Why do you think she's mafia?
It's edged towards a scum lean (and I'm not sure why people are acting like this has come out of nowhere since she was on my lynchable list in response to Sabrar's question). It is kind of a gut feeling and I'm not sure how much it was influenced by other people, but the sudden change of heart on claiming was a tipping point.


Tell me about your read from before. Why was she on your lynchable list to begin with?

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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby flicky1991 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:31 pm UTC

I can't remember the exact content without reading through again, I just remember I was starting to feel it. I'll have a look through though.
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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby LaserGuy » Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:36 pm UTC

I thought you had assigned everyone a score. Didn't you keep notes on how you assigned these to everyone?

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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby flicky1991 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:41 pm UTC

I didn't have notes beyond what was in the reads list post - they were more just a way to force myself to quantify my general impression of everyone so I could see who fell out as scummiest. Also, that was before Madge started playing. For the record, moody (as he was when I made the post) was tied with somitomi and Hari Seldon in those scores.
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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby LaserGuy » Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:46 pm UTC

flicky1991 wrote:I didn't have notes beyond what was in the reads list post - they were more just a way to force myself to quantify my general impression of everyone so I could see who fell out as scummiest. Also, that was before Madge started playing. For the record, moody (as he was when I made the post) was tied with somitomi and Hari Seldon in those scores.


But by your own admission, you were posting a content summary, not specifically alignment-indicative information.

flicky1991 wrote:The parts you're quoting aren't a reads list, they're a content summary. The reads list self-admittedly does not contain much/any reasoning, but the bit in the spoiler was not intended to contain any information about who seemed to be scummy or townie.


So... what metric were you using to decide that Madge was equally scummy to somitomi and Hari?

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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby somitomi » Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:51 pm UTC

wam wrote:Fixed

Thats what happens when I do posts after a very long day at work.

I'm not voting either, I unvoted here
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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby flicky1991 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:53 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:So... what metric were you using to decide that Madge was equally scummy to somitomi and Hari?
I think I might have spoken unclearly here, so let me just break down what I meant:

a) the spoilered part of my reads post was notes, not alignment-indicative
b) after making those notes I found myself still having no great way of deciding who was scummiest, so I assigned everyone a score based on the general feeling I was getting about them (not necessarily by specific bits of content, just from the impression I had of their play in general) and positioned them based on that

You and PW were in the lowest spot because I could remember more specific things about you two that I disliked, but it was pretty close between everyone else at the time. moody in particular was hard to read because he had little content. Madge has been more active and I've had a slightly scummy impression of her.
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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby wam » Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:58 pm UTC

somitomi wrote:
wam wrote:Fixed

Thats what happens when I do posts after a very long day at work.

I'm not voting either, I unvoted here


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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby LaserGuy » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:07 pm UTC

Mmm.... my feeling here is that it is more likely that you don't really have solid reads, aren't really making an effort to develop any, and are kind of adjusting where you're on Madge at based on who you think is most likely to be lynched. Both of your reads on myself and Peaceful Whale earlier seemed to be similarly skewed toward "who is likely lynchbait" rather than "who is likely mafia".

Vote: flicky

I think somitomi and jimbob are buddies with him.

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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby Sabrar » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:27 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:Both of your reads on myself and Peaceful Whale earlier seemed to be similarly skewed toward "who is likely lynchbait" rather than "who is likely mafia".
When were you ever lynchbait-level?

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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:37 pm UTC

Peaceful Whale wrote:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:@Peaceful Whale - you accuse BoomFrog of active lurking in your post-by-post breakdown of him (pre-end of woofs), but also put him as townie, and you agree with much of what he said. Which is it?

Can’t it be both? Note it’s an accusation, I understood what he was getting at (kinda) and didn’t really care. *Tiny* bit fed up with it I pressured him with the hope that he would stop. Which he has, and as he’s posted he’s moved up into “town category”.
My point is that you agreed with what he was saying with the woofs, which implies that you believed him to be saying something, yet you still called it active lurking. What do you mean when you say active lurking? What does it tell you about the player who does it?

This post doesn't really sound like typical Madge. It's well known that Madge hates D1, yet what she's advocating is, in her own words, effectively D1 v2.0. Why the increased enthusiasm for D1, Madge?

Hari Seldon wrote:
somitomi wrote:
Hari Seldon wrote:This is not true. If Scum does not have any reason to suspect a Watcher in a closed set up, then the existing Watcher would not have the deterrent function.

But mafia have every reason to suspect a Watcher in this setup, which contains 50% chance of a Watcher. Mafia could gamble and play like there's none, but I don't think they'd do that. From this perspective it seems like four uknown PRs are better, since mafia have to maneuver around all four if they want to be on the safe side.
This is my point. JimBob's assertion was that this game is not different from a game with an unknown setup.
Err... no, that wasn't my assertion, I was trying to make basically the same point as somitomi did. A watcher that is known to exist has only a slightly higher deterrence factor compared to a watcher who has a 50% chance of existing. That being said, even in games with closed setups and no known watchers, scum can get nervous about watchers (see bessie in Secret Santa's scum chat), and may still try to dodge them, simply to have 0% risk.

Hari Seldon wrote:Perhaps indication is a better word than tell. I believe I have picked up on cues that are a more reliable indications of his alignment than trying to untangle the wifom I find inherent in his play. To be clear, these indicators do not just apply to Boom. It just that there are more upfront approaches to discerning someone such as, say, flicky's alignment, that are not a reliable means to discerning an experienced player's. Again, it is not just a Boom thing. I mentally weigh all tells based on how well I think a player can fake them.

Hari Seldon wrote:Why do you feel this is important? If I had picked up on a Town tell or a Scum tell, how would one or the other affect your reading of me?
I was trying to understand whether you were saying whether you had picked up on tells from BoomFrog in this game, as opposed to saying "I learnt something in Crossover about scum!BoomFrog, and I have/have not seen any evidence of it here".
Firstly, I don't like not understanding the words of what somebody has said, and I will often ask for clarification, even if it won't necessarily help me determine any particular players alignment. In some instance it can help me build up a bigger mental picture of how another person sees the game. In general, if somebody says "I found a tell" on somebody else without saying whether it is townie or scummy, it is easy for that player if they are scum to produce the tell for whichever side they feel is helpful. This is partly why it's important to know what direction the tell is in. Knowing which direction it is in doesn't affect my opinion of your alignment in and of itself. Furthermore, it's something that can be followed up on later, with a greater understanding of it, potentially giving an avenue to challenge a read.

Hari Seldon wrote:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:To address a point where Hari awarded me negative points: he said that I was trying to justify a town read of Sabrar, but I explicitly didn't put Sabrar in a town position, because I was very uncertain at the time, and it was too early to be able to commit to any firm judgement. I highlighted cases both for and against him. Isn't taking a balanced view a townie thing to do?
I actually did not say you were trying to do this. There is a subtle, but important difference in my actual statement. I explained this to you in the previous game. I rely heavily on introspection. As logical as we all try to make it, I believe that a lot of this game really comes down to intuition. I am entirely self aware of this and spend much of my time trying to understand why I feel a certain way about something, so that it can be looked at analytically. My statement was the explanation I came to for why I believed your comments on Sabrar felt strange to me. Of course, I do not know if you were actually tying to do this.
previously Hari Seldon wrote:His analysis of Sabrar is strange. I believe it appears to me as if here trying to justify a town read. I am having difficulty thinking of the phrase to describe my feeling, but essentially it is when someone wants to go the middle ground to feel things out
I don't dispute whether or not you consider your opinions and try to figure out where they came from, I dispute that the logical conclusion is that it is more likely to come from scum than town (if that's not what you implied, why did you award me negative points?), for the reasons stated.

Also for the record, I don't know how many of my past games you've read, but I can get "hypersensitive" about attacks on me whether I am town or scum.

I'm not sure what the link you posted has to do with progression of reads. It's a single example, where one scum player moved one person to slightly townier than before. That doesn't mean that there weren't town players doing exactly the same thing, or scum players who weren't.

On the stale/empty comment, you're still stretching. I said I liked what bessie was saying, and highlighted a particular example. That's hardly empty - it's showing my opinion on a player's actions.

Hari Seldon wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:
Peaceful Whale wrote:In all my games, even when I’m town, I’ve been seen as pretty scummy.


*Squints at this*. Is this a slip?


@Bessie @JimBob @Somitomi What do you think about this?
A fair question - I've viewed lesser statements as slips before (incorrectly in some cases). In this case, I think the use of the word "even" is to emphasise that his scumminess applies when he's town as well as when he's scum, and isn't a reflection on him comparing to his current situation. I therefore don't think this is an alignment-indicating slip.

This might be a case of pot calling kettle black, but flicky hasn't really been doing anything to move the conversation along recently.
@flicky - do you have any updated thoughts on who is scummiest, aside from Madge?

On Madge's not-claim, I'm not too bothered by her not wanting to claim following BoomFrog's comment at this point. She'll have a chance to do so later, whilst still giving enough time overnight/tomorrow for people to look at alternatives. I'm okay with a Madge lynch, due to some of moody's earlier content, but there's nothing outright scummy I can point to from her.

Sabrar wrote:@Madge: you promised to claim. You don't get to retract that just because people unvoted before the actual claim.
I completely disagree with this. If the situation changes, then it may no longer be in town's best interests for town!Madge to claim.
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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby LaserGuy » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:42 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:Both of your reads on myself and Peaceful Whale earlier seemed to be similarly skewed toward "who is likely lynchbait" rather than "who is likely mafia".
When were you ever lynchbait-level?


First half of D1. By page 6 I was being scumread by you, Hari, jimbob, and somitomi, with ambivalent reads from PW and moody.

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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby Hari Seldon » Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:25 pm UTC

Read List
Spoiler:
LaserGuy

Somitomi


Jimbobmacdoodle

Madge
Sabrar
BoomFrog

Peaceful Whale
Flicky

cemper
Bessie
Vicarin

I think this best visually represent my readings relative to each other. The further down, the more Townie confidence, and the higher up, the more Scum confidence. Those clustered together don't differ much in how I feel.

I will probably be voting LaserGuy. I asked Bessie, Somi, and Jim about that post, because PW did something very similar in the last game, which led to his lynch. It is baffling that LaserGuy would find that suspicious, because it should be apparent that such a tell is not reliable.

@Jim, the point was stale because Bessie consistently plays in that manner. As you yourself stated, her Scum play is identical in that way. Your comment added no value.

I feel less certain about my Jim read than Laser and Somi. I do not think I am willing to lynch him today. My preference is still NL > Laser > Somi.

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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby Sabrar » Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:44 pm UTC

@Hari Seldon: in your opinion what was scum!LaserGuy's motivation behind proposing his first plans for the PR's?

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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby Hari Seldon » Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:05 pm UTC

This:
Hari Seldon wrote:I have a suspicion that set up talk was an anchoring point for him to begin to display an investment in the game, similar to the way he used flavor talk here:

viewtopic.php?p=4185568#p4185568

I think it was just something for him to put on the page. I don't think it was explicitly malicious, I just think it's something he didn't think all that through.

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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby flicky1991 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:26 pm UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:@flicky - do you have any updated thoughts on who is scummiest, aside from Madge?
I do think that, now that we're past the PR-claiming discussion, LaserGuy isn't as bad as when I first thought him suspicious, so that makes Peaceful Whale my scummiest read. But I'd still be happy to lynch any of the three that I listed.

In fact...

Unvote: LaserGuy
Vote: Peaceful Whale

If Whale turns up scum then LaserGuy is town, though.
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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby Madge » Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:52 pm UTC

Vicarin wrote:Or, you know, it's a last-ditch attempt by scum to get people to back off without immediately having a PR counterclaim. I'm not buying this without a proper claim.


Yes, if I'm scum I can look townie by doing what a townie would do.

somitomi wrote:
Madge wrote:Given votals as they are we can put somi in first place. But I am not concerned about hammer so we have time to think about it.

Why put me first out of all the people with one vote? I know I'm on a lot of "lynchable" lists, but the votals don't indicate that in any way.


You were on my "naughty" list that's all. I know most people seemed happy with targeting you so you as a target has dual functions of self-preservation and moving it to someone I think is scummy.

bessie wrote:Madge, why exactly do you think I’m scum? What was the source your initial assessment of me!scum? What have I done since your initial assessment to support this read?


Honestly - people have always said you had a stubborn meta but I didn't get that until the last two games. I think your stubbornness might go up to 11 when you're scum. Just a bad feeling. Etc.

Sorry for getting your argument wrong. I find your posts really hard to follow in general, but it's obviously just me so I didn't bring it up. They're very long and have lots of links instead of quotes so I have to go and figure out exactly what part of your link is relevant. It's a lot of work and it's not the type I enjoy, it's the type that's monotonous. Ditto for going back through and trying to work out your logic.

I also figure it's futile because you're not ever going to change your opinion of me because I'm not all of a sudden going to have years of notes on players, detailed posts with links, etc. Like Sabrar says, rather than looking for Madge acting like scummy Madge and voting based on that, you are like "Madge is acting like town Madge, which is scummy behaviour, so I'm voting". How am I meant to get out of that? I mention changing my meta last game and people are highly suspicious of me. I can't win! I'm not going to try.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:It's well known that Madge hates D1, yet what she's advocating is, in her own words, effectively D1 v2.0. Why the increased enthusiasm for D1, Madge?


You don't know me well at all do you? :lol: I don't hate D1 because t here's no previous vote-off to analyse; I hate D1 because there's no POWER RESULTS to analyse and speculate over. The vote-off is gravy. So NL!D2 gives us, effectively, a D1 with an N0 start, which is something I'd have no problem playing. Or, pragmatically, given we're as likely as not to voteoff town as scum, it brings us to D2 with one dead townie instead of two. (Or one dead townie instead of 1.5 if we're going with expected value and assuming we're really good scumhunters as an aggregate). Hope that explains it?

Sabrar is off the nice list for pushing me to claim BTW.

RE claiming: I'll claim before bed tonight if and only if I'm leading the votals (or tied for leader).

(FWIW in the spirit of sleepgate deadline looks to be at about 2 or 3am my local time and I have my dnd group coming over from 6:30 till about 10:00 so I might be too tired to log on afterwards and might miss it)

Changing my vote - I would prefer Somi to flicky but I will change it back for self-preservation of course.

Unvote (NL)
Vote: Somitomi


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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby Hari Seldon » Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:59 pm UTC

Vote: LaserGuy

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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby Sabrar » Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:01 pm UTC

Vote: somitomi

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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby Vicarin » Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:21 pm UTC

Madge, if someone's vanilla town this game, then there's a decent chance that they're not going to see a PR result for 3-4 days. Will this drive you insane if this happens?

On a more serious note, at least you're not pushing for the NL now. We need to decide on a target soonish to give time for claims. I just woke up, so I think I won't be on for a couple of hours before the deadline, and would appreciate people not all switching over the place just before then.

Looks like Madge is off the table, but I'm still happy with somitomi or flicky. More so with somitomi.

Unvote Madge
Vote somitomi

As an aside, I will advocate for NL in the future if we're on an even number of players, know the doctor isn't working, and have no confirmed scum. But not before then.

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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby LaserGuy » Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:30 pm UTC

Unofficial VC:

Current Votals

LaserGuy - 1 (Hari Seldon)
somitomi - 4 (bessie, Madge, Sabrar, Vicarin)
flicky1991 - 3 (cemper93, BoomFrog, LaserGuy)
Peaceful Whale - 1 (flicky)
Hari Seldon - 1 (jimbobmacdoodle)

Not voting: Peaceful Whale, somitomi

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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby somitomi » Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:50 pm UTC

Dammit...

Since we're less than 20 hours from the deadline: I am the Tracker.

Sheesh, good thing I checked the game before going to bed...
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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby BoomFrog » Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:57 pm UTC

See, that's what a wagon with scum as one of the targets looks like... :P

Pretty sure it's the one getting more resistance...

@everyone not voting between Flicky and sonotomi, which of the two would you choose as scum if you knew exactly one is scum?
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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby BoomFrog » Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:58 pm UTC

Ninjad... damnit somitomi... Sigh.
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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby Vicarin » Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:00 am UTC

Welp.

Unvote somitomi
Vote flicky1991

Of course, if someone does counterclaim, somitomi immediately dies.

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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby BoomFrog » Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:02 am UTC

It's alright, this is pretty much the expected outcome of D1. I was hoping you cut it a bit closer though since there's a close race.

Somitomi may still be scum. If there is another player who is going to claim tracker, so so ASAP.
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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby LaserGuy » Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:10 am UTC

@Sabrar,

Why did you vote for somitomi? What's your read on flicky?

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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby LaserGuy » Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:12 am UTC

Also... whatever happened to this?

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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby Madge » Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:32 am UTC

Vicarin wrote:Madge, if someone's vanilla town this game, then there's a decent chance that they're not going to see a PR result for 3-4 days. Will this drive you insane if this happens?


More insane than I am already? No.

Just got into work, quick note to say that if you're the new vote leader, don't claim until/unless you're at L-2 or so (feel free to defer to someone less scummy for an exact point). PRs have nowhere to hide if VTs claim "don't vote me I'm VT" at the last minute, and scum is likely to claim VT anyway so it's not going to help you. And if you're PR let scum have a chance to dig themselves into a hole before you come out with it.

(DAMNIT, just read Somitomi's claim. What's done is done and yeah, if you were about to go to bed, let's not have another sleepgate when you wake up, so you probably made the right decision.)

unvote somitomi

vote flicky


Flicky's now at L-2

This should go without saying, but just in case:
If somitomi's claim is fake and you, the person reading this, are the real tracker, claim ASAP or we're doomed
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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby Vicarin » Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:41 am UTC

@Madge, I think doomed is a bit of an overstatement, but yeah, not great. Counterclaims can be done the next day for D1 (competing wagon is probably town though in that case hence the not great), it only gets iffy if we're close to LYLO.

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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby Madge » Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:58 am UTC

I have "fond" memories of being doc in my first or second game here, scum claiming doc, and me being too scared of outing myself as the "real" doctor to claim. (See? I've been screwing up games for town since the start!)

So I'm using evocative language to make it very clear that counterclaiming is the townie thing to do. There's a risk that somi and flicky are both town; if we get a counterclaim, we guarantee one scum in the pair we'd vote between and if we guess correctly the real tracker gets completely cleared. Scum might even be scared of the doctor / the doctor might be real and succeed, and we might get a couple of nights of results out of it, to boot.
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Vicarin
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Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby Vicarin » Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:36 am UTC

Oh yeah, no argument about a CC being worthwhile to get scum. Definitely PRs should CC if scum tries claiming their role, 100%.

Scum need to worry about both the Doctor and the Watcher, so it's decently likely that scum won't risk going for a single claimed PR.

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Suzaku
Posts: 279
Joined: Thu May 31, 2012 10:20 am UTC
Location: Tokyo, Japan

Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby Suzaku » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:56 am UTC

Current Votals

somitomi - 2 (bessie, Sabrar)
flicky1991 - 5 (cemper93, BoomFrog, LaserGuy, Vicarin, Madge)
Hari Seldon - 1 (jimbobmacdoodle)
Peaceful Whale - 1 (flicky1991)
LaserGuy - 1 (Hari Seldon)

Not voting: Peaceful Whale, somitomi

With 12 alive hammer requires 7 votes. Tied votals will result in no lynch.
Deadline in approximately 13 hours.
Pronouns: he/him/his > they/them/their >> it/it/its
Time Zone: JST (UTC+9)
─────────────────────────
Some guy on the Internet wrote:The thing about the inevitable, it has a bad habit of actually happening.

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Sabrar
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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby Sabrar » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:10 am UTC

BoomFrog wrote:See, that's what a wagon with scum as one of the targets looks like... :P

Pretty sure it's the one getting more resistance...
Should flicky be also Town would that change your mind about Madge?

Unvote

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Sabrar
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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby Sabrar » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:17 am UTC

LaserGuy wrote:@Sabrar,

Why did you vote for somitomi? What's your read on flicky?

Read back. I thought somitomi was scum. What was the purpose of this question?
I don't have a solid read on flicky. I'll try to reread while commuting.
LaserGuy wrote:Also... whatever happened to this?
As BoomFrog noted it was mainly driven by OMGUS. Historically only scum calls me active lurking when I'm town (which btw triggers me enormously). You were willing to change targets like in Crossover and did not remain focused on a single person like in Shakespeare. I'm far from convinced you're town but there were more scummy players.

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Sabrar
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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby Sabrar » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:25 am UTC

Hi bessie! Who will you tunnel next?

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LaserGuy
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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby LaserGuy » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:26 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:@Sabrar,

Why did you vote for somitomi? What's your read on flicky?


Read back. I thought somitomi was scum. What was the purpose of this question?


Why did you think he was scum? If there's a post where you mentioned it, I must have missed it.

The purpose of the question is to help me determine if you are mafia. On both the Madge and somitomi wagons, you are the person that I am least confident is Town.

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Sabrar
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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby Sabrar » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:33 am UTC

So you're not reading me too closely. I'll link to them in an hour or so.

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bessie
Posts: 20
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Location: California

Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby bessie » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:41 am UTC

Something I’ve been pondering today- I’m a bit surprised that BoomFrog bought Madge’s PR claim so quickly and unquestionably, but what I find interesting is that he not only expected Sabrar to do the same, he called Sabrar out on it. I’ve been reading BoomFrog as town all game, but this definitely pings me.

flicky1991 wrote:I would consider changing my vote to Madge if there's still a tie and deadline is close, since I don't want a No Lynch.
I usually don’t approve of townies claiming to avoid the lynch (look it up everyone, I say this in almost every game), although I am pondering whether or not it is reasonable in this setup. I like even less what Madge did with her claim. And I also don’t approve of “self preservation” votes (also not a new stance with me, but something that doesn’t come up as often so I can’t think of a recent example, but I’m pretty sure Madge and I had a heated discussion over this in Draculafia). So I’m suspicious of this statement. And yes, I don’t like that Madge is pulling the “self preservation” vote gambit too. And no, I don’t think it’s right to attack flicky over this and let Madge get away with it because it is totally within her meta. So I’m suspicious of both of you for it.

Sabrar wrote:
BoomFrog wrote:If Madge is town, who would you think is scum based on her current wagon?
somitomi. If he's Town as well then bessie.
Hmm, noted. Pre post edit: And interesting, now that Madge and somitomi are off the lynch list.

Madge wrote:Honestly - people have always said you had a stubborn meta but I didn't get that until the last two games. I think your stubbornness might go up to 11 when you're scum. Just a bad feeling. Etc.
So this is why you’re scum reading me? Really?

Madge wrote:Sorry for getting your argument wrong. I find your posts really hard to follow in general, but it's obviously just me so I didn't bring it up. They're very long and have lots of links instead of quotes so I have to go and figure out exactly what part of your link is relevant. It's a lot of work and it's not the type I enjoy, it's the type that's monotonous. Ditto for going back through and trying to work out your logic.
Madge, you know, you could just ask me to make quotes instead of links, and put them in a spoiler, instead of just deciding that the way I do things is too hard for you to follow so you’re not going to bother. I try to use links because I like seeing the context.

Madge wrote:I also figure it's futile because you're not ever going to change your opinion of me because I'm not all of a sudden going to have years of notes on players, detailed posts with links, etc. Like Sabrar says, rather than looking for Madge acting like scummy Madge and voting based on that, you are like "Madge is acting like town Madge, which is scummy behaviour, so I'm voting". How am I meant to get out of that? I mention changing my meta last game and people are highly suspicious of me. I can't win! I'm not going to try.
I’m not seeing how you can honestly believe that I think you’re a bad player. I say different in every game. And I believe that I definitively and truthfully encouraged you not to change your meta at the end of Secret Santa here (link not quote because it’s really non-game content). I understand and accept your meta, and how you play. You don’t have to play like me, and neither does Peaceful Whale. You can play however you want, and if anyone demands you change your playstyle you can tell them to fuck themselves. But it really hurts me that you and Sabrar are so unwilling to take my personality into consideration and afford me the same courtesy of trying to understand how I play. And while I’m on a roll humiliating myself I might as well add this. I really hope you’re scum. You have no clue how saddened I was when I read this post, thinking about the possibility that town!Madge didn’t consider my content important enough to read before accusing me of being scum.

somitomi, I still have my doubts about you, but since there is no counterclaim I will remove my vote. I’m stubborn, but my ego is not so big that I can’t admit when I am wrong.

Unvote: somitomi


Ninja’d by Sabrar. I’ll be back in a bit. This post took me two hours to compose.


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