Newbie New Year Mafia - D5

For your simulated organized crime needs.

Moderators: jestingrabbit, Moderators General, Prelates

User avatar
Madge
Posts: 66
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 3:45 am UTC
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby Madge » Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:57 pm UTC

@PW: in case you didn't get it, my elaborate accounting of my RL schedule is sarcastic and having a go at people for judging you for not being precise with yours

(also my character has 18HP and got hit for 22HP BY A RAPTOR SNEAK ATTACKING HER BY PULLING HER OUT OF HER TREE BY HER TAIL, but fortunately I got healed and got up and sat on top of a wagon and when a raptor was running away I fucking shot it in the back with my arrow from a crazy distance so HA I got the last laugh)
I'm writing a supernatural romance novel, it updates the first weekend of every month. You can find it here.

User avatar
Vicarin
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:45 am UTC
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby Vicarin » Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:09 pm UTC

Welp, looks like Madge won't have time to claim anyway.

Unvote Madge

In the interests of making a NL harder to force and seeing as flicky1991 is claiming vanilla after having acted somewhat suspiciously,

Vote flicky1991

User avatar
Sabrar
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:29 pm UTC

Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby Sabrar » Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:10 pm UTC

@Vicarin: will you be available around deadline?

User avatar
Vicarin
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:45 am UTC
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby Vicarin » Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:13 pm UTC

No, I'm in Sydney so it's 1am here and I really need to get to sleep.

User avatar
Sabrar
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:29 pm UTC

Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby Sabrar » Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:16 pm UTC

Ok, then.

User avatar
Sabrar
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:29 pm UTC

Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby Sabrar » Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:53 pm UTC

@jimbob: I would be willing to go for cemper to avoid the mislynch.

User avatar
jimbobmacdoodle
Posts: 149
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:40 pm UTC
Location: NP 811/The Present

Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:56 pm UTC

I should have done this earlier, since there appears to be no willingness for anybody to consider lynching Hari or cemper:

Unvote
Vote Madge

I think flicky is probably town as stated earlier (and yes, I know this looks bad if he flips scum). I am conscious that Madge hasn't claimed, and that there's a chance that we could lynch PR!Madge - assuming that Madge doesn't come in and claim suddenly unexpectedly, I'll probably unvote again.

Ninja'ed by Sabrar:

Unvote
Vote cemper

Is cemper going to be around to claim if we get more voters supporting us?
BlitzGirl the Primordial
matthewglen wrote:Cueball looks concerned.

Image

User avatar
BoomFrog
Posts: 1069
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:59 am UTC
Location: Seattle

Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby BoomFrog » Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:29 pm UTC

Skimmed the fact that Flicky claimed VT and Sabrar is defending it hard.

I have to admit I was expecting scum!Flicky to claim a PR. Which would have lead to us to likely reveal another PR.

However, if the VT claim avoids the lynch then VT is the better claim for scum!flicky, scum actually are either inexperienced and lucky or Sabrar is scum and feeling bold/desperate.

The other possibility of course is Flicky is VT.

The problem is I really don't think Hari or cemper are scum. But that doesn't leave enough scum anyway, so that has to be wrong... :?

Thinking...
"Everything I need to know about parenting I learned from cooking. Don't be afraid to experiment, and eat your mistakes." - Cronos

User avatar
bessie
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:27 am UTC
Location: California

Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby bessie » Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:32 pm UTC

Madge wrote:@PW: in case you didn't get it, my elaborate accounting of my RL schedule is sarcastic and having a go at people for judging you for not being precise with yours
Why do you keep covering for him?

Vote: Madge

Sabrar wrote:Hi bessie! Who will you tunnel next?

Sigh. Probably Peaceful Whale.


Hmm, or BoomFrog.

User avatar
jimbobmacdoodle
Posts: 149
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:40 pm UTC
Location: NP 811/The Present

Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:35 pm UTC

bessie - how do you feel about lynching an unclaimed player?
BlitzGirl the Primordial
matthewglen wrote:Cueball looks concerned.

Image

User avatar
bessie
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:27 am UTC
Location: California

Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby bessie » Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:37 pm UTC

I don't understand the question. Is this about Madge?

User avatar
jimbobmacdoodle
Posts: 149
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:40 pm UTC
Location: NP 811/The Present

Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:40 pm UTC

Madge in particular. Also, would be curious about your feelings on cemper and lynching him (he hasn't claimed yet either).
BlitzGirl the Primordial
matthewglen wrote:Cueball looks concerned.

Image

User avatar
cemper93
Posts: 209
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 2:35 pm UTC
Location: `pwd`

Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby cemper93 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:13 pm UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:I should have done this earlier, since there appears to be no willingness for anybody to consider lynching Hari or cemper:

Unvote
Vote Madge

I think flicky is probably town as stated earlier (and yes, I know this looks bad if he flips scum). I am conscious that Madge hasn't claimed, and that there's a chance that we could lynch PR!Madge - assuming that Madge doesn't come in and claim suddenly unexpectedly, I'll probably unvote again.

Ninja'ed by Sabrar:

Unvote
Vote cemper

Is cemper going to be around to claim if we get more voters supporting us?

I'm on the road right now, but can make phone posts such as this one. Don't expect me to be super attentive, but in case you push a wagon on me I might be around to claim at least. Note that at that point it may be too late to matter. When is deadline in UTC/hours from now?

@Sabrar As jimbob said, flicky appears to have been aware that claiming a PR gets him out of the lynch, hence I consider claiming VT wine.

User avatar
bessie
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:27 am UTC
Location: California

Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby bessie » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:14 pm UTC

Note: I’m leaving for work soon and won’t be here at deadline, which is at a busy part of my morning. I can try to check, but the most I would have time to do is move my vote, and the timing of deadline makes even this unlikely.

I was expecting a reaction form cemper regarding this post, but rereading it now, I see that I did not actually ask him a question. I am concerned that my feelings on cemper are OMGUS, since rereading his content, his points against me have their basis in a reading of my meta. cemper’s content in regards to me feels different to me than say somitomi’s jabs at my meta, as somitomi just recently got worked by scum me. I honestly don’t see any reason cemper should believe I am a good player, he says he has been reading some recent games but I wonder if his read of me is from not a reading but a discussion. But I do believe the claim that he’s overwhelmed by the content, as I am having the same issue and never produced a comprehensive reads list (although I believe I put all my opinions out there). D1 in this game is already longer than most complete games when cemper used to play here.

I would not trust a claim from Madge at this point. It is quite possibly too close to deadline for a counterclaim. And, I can see a strategy for scum!Madge to counterclaim a PR.

User avatar
Sabrar
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:29 pm UTC

Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby Sabrar » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:24 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote:I have to admit I was expecting scum!Flicky to claim a PR. Which would have lead to us to likely reveal another PR.
This is it exactly. Scum wants to do exactly what Madge did, hint at PR so that Town backs off but leave enough room to wiggle out of it. Or if they are really desperate they claim PR outright in order to get a counterclaim and have a PR reveal themselves.
Claiming vanilla just as you wake up with half a day to go until deadline is bad scum-tactic.
There are 3 scum, one of them must have thought of this and advised the others.

@cemper: not wine. He could have waited with the claim but he didn't. This is a mislynch.

I'm okay with either Madge or cemper as today's lynch. BoomFrog is scum if he doesn't unvote.

User avatar
cemper93
Posts: 209
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 2:35 pm UTC
Location: `pwd`

Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby cemper93 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:32 pm UTC

Sabrar, now that you said that scum will claim PR when lynched, they won't do it. They could just win the game by claiming VT once a train starts on them, because, after all, if they were scum, they would never do that, right? This is prime wine.

Where you stand on flicky is noted.

User avatar
Sabrar
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:29 pm UTC

Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby Sabrar » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:33 pm UTC

Megalol. I wasn't the one to openly reveal.

User avatar
Sabrar
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:29 pm UTC

Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby Sabrar » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:35 pm UTC

And how does this affect flicky's situation at all??? It occurred prior to this discussion.

User avatar
BoomFrog
Posts: 1069
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:59 am UTC
Location: Seattle

Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby BoomFrog » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:36 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
BoomFrog wrote:I have to admit I was expecting scum!Flicky to claim a PR. Which would have lead to us to likely reveal another PR.
This is it exactly. Scum wants to do exactly what Madge did, hint at PR so that Town backs off but leave enough room to wiggle out of it. Or if they are really desperate they claim PR outright in order to get a counterclaim and have a PR reveal themselves.
Claiming vanilla just as you wake up with half a day to go until deadline is bad scum-tactic.
There are 3 scum, one of them must have thought of this and advised the others.
Claiming a PR is the naive default scum strategy. And I'm hard pressed to imagine a 3 man scum team that wouldn't have thought of it. Choosing to claim VT is an attempt at a more manipulative play style instead of a game-theory optimal style. So I guess I shouldn't be considering that you would have advised it as the defacto leader of the scum team... :roll:

BoomFrog is scum if he doesn't unvote.
:roll: :roll:

You're lucky that I'm not a perverse person.

Vote: Cemper

I'd prefer peaceful whale, but Cemper is better then Madge.
"Everything I need to know about parenting I learned from cooking. Don't be afraid to experiment, and eat your mistakes." - Cronos

User avatar
BoomFrog
Posts: 1069
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:59 am UTC
Location: Seattle

Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby BoomFrog » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:40 pm UTC

@Sabrar: You are too confident that flicky is town. Yes, this is evidence of towniness and justifies lynching someone else today, but he is not the guaranteed town that you seem to be assuming. Many players prefer a manipulative "I'll do what scum wouldn't do to appear townie" plan over the optimal scum plan (and it's often good play).
"Everything I need to know about parenting I learned from cooking. Don't be afraid to experiment, and eat your mistakes." - Cronos

User avatar
BoomFrog
Posts: 1069
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:59 am UTC
Location: Seattle

Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby BoomFrog » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:43 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:And how does this affect flicky's situation at all??? It occurred prior to this discussion.

Flicky was clearly well aware of what the optimal scum play would be and is presumably experienced enough to think through the second layer of that train of thought.

However, his tone was of a doomed townie.
"Everything I need to know about parenting I learned from cooking. Don't be afraid to experiment, and eat your mistakes." - Cronos

User avatar
LaserGuy
Posts: 4581
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:33 pm UTC

Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby LaserGuy » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:45 pm UTC

My feeling is that scum is likely to claim VT since outing a PR is an inferior outcome to avoiding being lynched. If we do not lynched flicky we should NL rather than lynching randomly

User avatar
LaserGuy
Posts: 4581
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:33 pm UTC

Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby LaserGuy » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:48 pm UTC

Also i thank Sabrar is mafia so I'm not keen on his plan anyway

User avatar
BoomFrog
Posts: 1069
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:59 am UTC
Location: Seattle

Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby BoomFrog » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:56 pm UTC

Unofficial vtotals:

flicky1991 - 4 (cemper93, LaserGuy, Madge, Vicarin)
Peaceful Whale - 1 (flicky1991)
LaserGuy - 1 (Hari Seldon)
Madge - 2 Sabrar, bessie
Cemper - 2 - jimbobmacdoodle, BoomFrog

Not voting: Peaceful Whale, somitomi,

With 12 alive hammer requires 7 votes. Tied votals will result in no lynch.
Deadline in about 2 hours.
"Everything I need to know about parenting I learned from cooking. Don't be afraid to experiment, and eat your mistakes." - Cronos

User avatar
Sabrar
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:29 pm UTC

Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby Sabrar » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:59 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
BoomFrog wrote:See, that's what a wagon with scum as one of the targets looks like... :P

Pretty sure it's the one getting more resistance...
Should flicky be also Town would that change your mind about Madge?

Unvote

User avatar
Suzaku
Posts: 279
Joined: Thu May 31, 2012 10:20 am UTC
Location: Tokyo, Japan

Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby Suzaku » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:00 pm UTC

Current Votals

flicky1991 - 4 (cemper93, LaserGuy, Madge, Vicarin)
Peaceful Whale - 1 (flicky1991)
LaserGuy - 1 (Hari Seldon)
Madge - 2 (Sabrar, bessie)
cemper93 - 2 (jimbobmacdoodle, BoomFrog)

Not voting: Peaceful Whale, somitomi,

With 12 alive hammer requires 7 votes. Tied votals will result in no lynch.
Deadline in 2 hours.

Note that posting and voting may continue after the deadline until a mod calls night (or there’s a hammer vote).
Pronouns: he/him/his > they/them/their >> it/it/its
Time Zone: JST (UTC+9)
─────────────────────────
Some guy on the Internet wrote:The thing about the inevitable, it has a bad habit of actually happening.

User avatar
BoomFrog
Posts: 1069
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:59 am UTC
Location: Seattle

Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby BoomFrog » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:01 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:Also i thank Sabrar is mafia so I'm not keen on his plan anyway

Yeah, I've been considering the Sabrar-flicky team. And that was why I was keeping my vote on flicky for a while. But do you think Sabrar would tie himself so tightly to defending a teammate D1? And advise his scummate to go for the risky play? I can imagine it only if Sabrar feels the game is going very poorly for mafia already. Who do you think is likely for 3rd scummate?
"Everything I need to know about parenting I learned from cooking. Don't be afraid to experiment, and eat your mistakes." - Cronos

User avatar
BoomFrog
Posts: 1069
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:59 am UTC
Location: Seattle

Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby BoomFrog » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:04 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
Sabrar wrote:
BoomFrog wrote:See, that's what a wagon with scum as one of the targets looks like... :P

Pretty sure it's the one getting more resistance...
Should flicky be also Town would that change your mind about Madge?

Unvote

Obviously not. Why even still ask at this point? I mean obviously it lowers my town confidence on every other player, but it doesn't change Madge's bucket.
"Everything I need to know about parenting I learned from cooking. Don't be afraid to experiment, and eat your mistakes." - Cronos

User avatar
BoomFrog
Posts: 1069
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:59 am UTC
Location: Seattle

Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby BoomFrog » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:05 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:Also i thank Sabrar is mafia so I'm not keen on his plan anyway

Yeah, I've been considering the Sabrar-flicky team. And that was why I was keeping my vote on flicky for a while. But do you think Sabrar would tie himself so tightly to defending a teammate D1? And advise his scummate to go for the risky play? I can imagine it only if Sabrar feels the game is going very poorly for mafia already. Who do you think is likely for 3rd scummate?

Especially a teammate who has a very real chance of getting lynched anyway and the whole jig will be up?
"Everything I need to know about parenting I learned from cooking. Don't be afraid to experiment, and eat your mistakes." - Cronos

User avatar
Hari Seldon
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:08 am UTC

Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby Hari Seldon » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:06 pm UTC

I have only skimmed the past couple of pages. I do not have much time and I will not have access to a computer through these last 2 hours. Bessie and Sabrar, Madge should not be lynched, because she can be verified and counter claimed when she does full claim. She does not need to do this today. Even if Madge is Scum softing to buy time, it is still optimal not to lynch her. Claiming PR has put her in a corner that she can not come out of. It is not necessary to risk outting a potential PR toDay.

I do not wish to lynch Flicky, but he is preferable to a lynching a SchrodingPR.

User avatar
BoomFrog
Posts: 1069
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:59 am UTC
Location: Seattle

Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby BoomFrog » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:14 pm UTC

Hari Seldon wrote:I have only skimmed the past couple of pages. I do not have much time and I will not have access to a computer through these last 2 hours. Bessie and Sabrar, Madge should not be lynched, because she can be verified and counter claimed when she does full claim. She does not need to do this today. Even if Madge is Scum softing to buy time, it is still optimal not to lynch her. Claiming PR has put her in a corner that she can not come out of. It is not necessary to risk outting a potential PR toDay.

I do not wish to lynch Flicky, but he is preferable to a lynching a SchrodingPR.

I agree with everything you've said. Voting for cemper is the best plan under these conditions. Look at the vote totals just a few posts up.
"Everything I need to know about parenting I learned from cooking. Don't be afraid to experiment, and eat your mistakes." - Cronos

User avatar
BoomFrog
Posts: 1069
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:59 am UTC
Location: Seattle

Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby BoomFrog » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:16 pm UTC

PW is also equally viable if you think he's more likely to be scum.
"Everything I need to know about parenting I learned from cooking. Don't be afraid to experiment, and eat your mistakes." - Cronos

User avatar
Sabrar
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:29 pm UTC

Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby Sabrar » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:16 pm UTC

@Hari Seldon: Madge specifically does not claim PR.

@BoomFrog: you thought that Madge's wagon was too easy. You thought that flicky's and somitomi's looked more natural. If both of the latter are Town then your assumption was wrong. Wouldn't you need to update your thoughts wrt Madge? Especially considering the fact that you were the reason why her wagon stopped.

User avatar
Sabrar
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:29 pm UTC

Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby Sabrar » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:18 pm UTC

Ninjad. Are you still defending Madge?

User avatar
BoomFrog
Posts: 1069
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:59 am UTC
Location: Seattle

Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby BoomFrog » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:24 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:Ninjad. Are you still defending Madge?

Yes. And I'm surprised you don't see it. We'll get into the details of it D2 I'm sure. I'm also surprised that Bessie read me as calling you out, since I was specifically holding back on calling you out, but I guess it showed through in my attitude anyway. (Good to know...)

@Hari, Madge is an experienced enough player to have announced her plan to claim even if she was going to claim VT. It's just a good step in the process so people can react before the beans are spilled (as I did). My pull back on her is not based on her claim.

Note to sonotomi: In retrospect, claiming when you did was a very good idea because we obviously needed as much time as possible to unscramble these eggs.
"Everything I need to know about parenting I learned from cooking. Don't be afraid to experiment, and eat your mistakes." - Cronos

User avatar
Hari Seldon
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:08 am UTC

Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby Hari Seldon » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:39 pm UTC

Why Cemper? He's one of my stronger Town reads. I need to weigh a PW vs Flicky lynch. I'll be back in about ~20 minutes.

User avatar
Hari Seldon
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:08 am UTC

Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby Hari Seldon » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:42 pm UTC

My concern is having another claim this close to the deadline

User avatar
Sabrar
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:29 pm UTC

Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby Sabrar » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:53 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:@Hari Seldon: Madge specifically does not claim PR.
Please reconsider.

User avatar
bessie
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:27 am UTC
Location: California

Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby bessie » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:57 pm UTC

Hari Seldon wrote:I have only skimmed the past couple of pages. I do not have much time and I will not have access to a computer through these last 2 hours. Bessie and Sabrar, Madge should not be lynched, because she can be verified and counter claimed when she does full claim. She does not need to do this today. Even if Madge is Scum softing to buy time, it is still optimal not to lynch her. Claiming PR has put her in a corner that she can not come out of. It is not necessary to risk outting a potential PR toDay.
I think there’s more to Madge’s claim than just buying time for herself. Madge is a good person and I can see her trying to protect Peaceful Whale, regardless or either of their alignments. Although in this game I am reading them as a scum team.


town
bessie
somitomi
Vicarin
Sabrar
Hari Seldon
flicky1991
jimbobmacdoodle
cemper93
LaserGuy
BoomFrog
Peaceful Whale
Madge
scum

User avatar
BoomFrog
Posts: 1069
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:59 am UTC
Location: Seattle

Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D1

Postby BoomFrog » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:10 pm UTC

bessie wrote:I think there’s more to Madge’s claim than just buying time for herself. Madge is a good person and I can see her trying to protect Peaceful Whale, regardless or either of their alignments. Although in this game I am reading them as a scum team.

[...]
BoomFrog
Peaceful Whale
Madge
scum

If you think they are similar chances to be scum then let's compromise on PW. Better then flicky, right?

Unvote: Cemper
Vote Peaceful Whale
"Everything I need to know about parenting I learned from cooking. Don't be afraid to experiment, and eat your mistakes." - Cronos


Return to “Mafia”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 22 guests