sardia wrote:Not to say you're right or wrong, but can you point to example?
I don't really follow most of the cases to their conclusion (often years later) but a recent case I can think of is with Aziz Ansari. https://babe.net/2018/01/13/aziz-ansari-28355
He's not legally accused of sexual assault but the article detailing the date repeatedly claims it was such, or at least that the victim felt it was:
“It took a really long time for me to validate this as sexual assault,” she told us.
It's really not the best example of a sexual assault accusation, but it is a good example of someone heading straight to the media with the primary effect being that of damaging the reputation of the accused.
The Great Hippo wrote:Okay -- but I take it that you understand when you said 'these types of accusations', there was pretty much no way to interpret that outside of the accusation we were talking about (the accusation regarding Keillor).
I also deeply disagree with your sentiment regarding 'going public with accusations tends to be the first step, not the last'. Consider that a lot of the accusations coming up now involve incidents that occurred years -- if not decades -- in the past. Clearly, going public in these instances could represent a last resort, not a first one -- with accusers having either pursued or investigated other steps to no result.
The emergence of an environment where public accusations of sexual harassment are being taken seriously can be seen two ways: You can see it as hyper-sensitive and full of opportunists, sure -- but you can also see it as an occasion where people who have been pressured into silence regarding their harassment, abuse, and even rape suddenly see an opportunity to speak out about those incidents in a setting that -- for once -- won't just tell them to 'shut the fuck up'.
I wasn't being specious when I said I'm sorry for not specifying my intent. I changed the topic without specifying that I did and shouldn't be surprised you called me on it.
And I agree that many of the accusers in probably most of these cases did have to wait years for the opportunity to tell their story without peremptorily being told to 'shut the fuck up' as you accurately put it. It's a travesty that the environment was ever thus, and obviously accusations should be taken seriously when made. However, at the moment the environment has changed to one where rather it's the people accused being told to 'shut up and accept what's coming for you, you obviously deserve it', and I consider neither alternative to be acceptable. The victims should be able to come forward when it happens, not years later when their only resort is to damage the reputation of the accused because there is little to no evidence that would be acceptable in court. But I have a problem with assaults on people's reputation being popularized that need little to no evidence to be effective and the accused has little to no defense.
In my turn I deeply
disagree with statements recently issued such as this:
https://twitter.com/EmilyLindin/status/ ... 4822579200
Emily Lindin wrote:I'm actually not at all concerned about innocent men losing their jobs over false sexual assault/harassment allegations...If some innocent men's reputations have to take a hit in the process of undoing the patriarchy, that is a price I am absolutely willing to pay.
"It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer" and all that.
I probably share morriwalter's character flaw that is I absolutely loathe
the thought of being falsely accused and have a violent reaction to the mere thought. It makes me overreact to this environment that I consider ripe for such situations.