## 0356: "Nerd Sniping"

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### Re: "Nerd Sniping" Discussion

Am I the only one who started with a shells approach? I agree the fourier method is probably the best way to solve this since thats how you quickly solve the ewald sums in covalent solids. But it seems to me that you can get a quickly converging answer simply by taking equivilent length paths and summing them pairwise and then there is the tripple pair in the middle. Of course this isn't analytical at all unless i convert my infinite sum into an integral and then damn i'm at a fourier series. Cool stuff

EDIT: w00t 42nd post
ZenBearClaw

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### All that math for nothing (0) XD

The answere is 0 there are always a greater or equal number of length path (series) (i.e. 3 paths 3 long, 7 5 long ect.)that add to greater then 1 (parrallel) this goes on infinitly (infinite grid) adding up to infinite inverse an infinite and you get 0.
*ME*

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### Re: "Nerd Sniping" Discussion

Chimo wrote:Hmm... is this by any chance the Classhole? (http://xkcd.com/72/ for those of you who don't remember) I mean, he's got a top hat and everything. This latest endeavor seems to suit him.

I feel like the guy with the top hat is the same dude for all the different strips that have a guy with a top hat. He's been up to a lot since the Classhole comic. (Most recently the trolling one) If I had free time I would go through and count how many strips he's been in, but I have work I should at least pretend to be doing.

*Edit* The obvious exception being the black-hatted dudes in the 1337 series.
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theyellowhobbit

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### Re: All that math for nothing (0) XD

*ME* wrote:The answere is 0 there are always a greater or equal number of length path (series) (i.e. 3 paths 3 long, 7 5 long ect.)that add to greater then 1 (parrallel) this goes on infinitly (infinite grid) adding up to infinite inverse an infinite and you get 0.

But who's gonna be making sure the electrons choose the paths you want them to
floyd4one

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### Re: "Nerd Sniping" Discussion

theyellowhobbit wrote:
Chimo wrote:Hmm... is this by any chance the Classhole? (http://xkcd.com/72/ for those of you who don't remember) I mean, he's got a top hat and everything. This latest endeavor seems to suit him.

I feel like the guy with the top hat is the same dude for all the different strips that have a guy with a top hat. He's been up to a lot since the Classhole comic. (Most recently the trolling one) If I had free time I would go through and count how many strips he's been in, but I have work I should at least pretend to be doing.

*Edit* The obvious exception being the black-hatted dudes in the 1337 series.

You could write some badass algorithm that detects him in the comics
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### Re: "Nerd Sniping" Discussion

OK, you could never get me that way. I hereby hand in my geek license.

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aleflamedyud

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### Re: "Nerd Sniping" Discussion

I'm glad to know there are people out there to solve these kinds of problems for me.

This Poly Sci major is totally confused...
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Mecks

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### Resistance is futile...

floyd4one wrote:
*ME* wrote:The answere is 0 there are always a greater or equal number of length path (series) (i.e. 3 paths 3 long, 7 5 long ect.)that add to greater then 1 (parrallel) this goes on infinitly (infinite grid) adding up to infinite inverse an infinite and you get 0.

But who's gonna be making sure the electrons choose the paths you want them to

That is why it says ideal not real ><, man I am nerdy I started a forum account just because I figured out (in under a minute no less) the answer on a webcomic XD
*ME*

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### Re: "Nerd Sniping" Discussion

theyellowhobbit wrote:
Chimo wrote:Hmm... is this by any chance the Classhole? (http://xkcd.com/72/ for those of you who don't remember) I mean, he's got a top hat and everything. This latest endeavor seems to suit him.

I feel like the guy with the top hat is the same dude for all the different strips that have a guy with a top hat. He's been up to a lot since the Classhole comic. (Most recently the trolling one) If I had free time I would go through and count how many strips he's been in, but I have work I should at least pretend to be doing.

*Edit* The obvious exception being the black-hatted dudes in the 1337 series.

Those are clearly different people, i mean, look at their hats! the MAFIAA guys are wearing Derbys. Whereas the recurring hat dude character is clearly wearing something more like a Porkpie hat
floyd4one

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### Re: Resistance is futile...

*ME* wrote:
floyd4one wrote:
*ME* wrote:The answere is 0 there are always a greater or equal number of length path (series) (i.e. 3 paths 3 long, 7 5 long ect.)that add to greater then 1 (parrallel) this goes on infinitly (infinite grid) adding up to infinite inverse an infinite and you get 0.

But who's gonna be making sure the electrons choose the paths you want them to

That is why it says ideal not real ><, man I am nerdy I started a forum account just because I figured out (in under a minute no less) the answer on a webcomic XD

Real or not, it's already been established that the answer is not 0.
floyd4one

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### Re: "Nerd Sniping" Discussion

I find yelling "PI IS EXACTLY THREE!" gets the same response, at least for a few seconds.

Then you're beaten to death by nerds.
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### Re: "Nerd Sniping" Discussion

floyd4one wrote:You know if xkcd has this kind of motivating power, Randall ought to put it to good use. For example slip in a subtle problem that is equivalent to a proof of NP-completeness or some other intractable task... within hours of being posted someone on the fora might have a solution!

I doubt anyone here would figure that out. Someone would, however, notice fairly quickly that it was equivalent.
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### Re: "Nerd Sniping" Discussion

Wow... this comic was timely.
I am submitting a paper tonight about "The adaption of nerds as a social group" and this one is explicitly about nerds

I have to send this one along with my paper
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OfficiallyHaphazard
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### Re: "Nerd Sniping" Discussion

Damn you! I need to be studying for my quantum mechanics final! Now I can't get the problem out of my head. Thing is I feel like I did a similar problem in my circuits class... but it was an infinite ladder rather than gird.

Damn you, 2 points for you randal.
f4hy

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### Re: "Nerd Sniping" Discussion

What scares me is that this same question showed up on a problem set once (about the same time as said aptitude test, I can't remember which came first but I suspect the problem set came first or the answer would have been Google-able), and I solved it, and I'm pretty sure I will never again in my life be able to solve it. Not because it was a seminal achievement, but because my math skills have regressed already. I don't know if I can even follow the solution any more. This was just about 3 years ago. I've only been out of school less than a year (my last really hardcore math class was a little further back though).
Your.Master

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### Re: "Nerd Sniping" Discussion

maaan I laughed so hard at this one. el oh el ^4. Nice artwork on the semi!

I'm gonna go pull this one on my friend using schrodinger's cat paradox.

/afk

Davean wrote:Only the bots can see the entire forum the mods have dedicated to bashing taptap for asking questions with obvious answers. It should look good when his next interviewer Googles him before the interview.

taptap
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### Re: "Nerd Sniping" Discussion

perhaps he should post a different kind of problem.. something like "what's the minimum set of words needed to make anyone fall in love with you instantly"

now THAT's interesting
dangil

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### Re: "Nerd Sniping" Discussion

floyd4one wrote:
theyellowhobbit wrote:
Chimo wrote:Hmm... is this by any chance the Classhole? (http://xkcd.com/72/ for those of you who don't remember) I mean, he's got a top hat and everything. This latest endeavor seems to suit him.

I feel like the guy with the top hat is the same dude for all the different strips that have a guy with a top hat. He's been up to a lot since the Classhole comic. (Most recently the trolling one) If I had free time I would go through and count how many strips he's been in, but I have work I should at least pretend to be doing.

*Edit* The obvious exception being the black-hatted dudes in the 1337 series.

Those are clearly different people, i mean, look at their hats! the MAFIAA guys are wearing Derbys. Whereas the recurring hat dude character is clearly wearing something more like a Porkpie hat

In fact, there's only one case in which the porkpie-hatted man is not being an ass: Pix Plz

Even then, it's debatable, but I'm a nerd girl so I have to side with Joanna and the EMP cannon.

EDIT:
perhaps he should post a different kind of problem.. something like "what's the minimum set of words needed to make anyone fall in love with you instantly"

now THAT's interesting

I think on these fora, it would likely be something horribly nerdy. But then, you'd get different answers for different girls.
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Eleyras

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### Re: "Nerd Sniping" Discussion

As an engineering major, I'd say that the solution is between 0 and 3 Ohms. The error margin should be small enough if the resistance of the rest of the circuit is in the order or kOhms .
RabidRabbit

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### Re: "Nerd Sniping" Discussion

cephalopod9 wrote:Only on Xkcd can you start a topic involving Hitler and people spend the better part of half a dozen pages arguing about the quality of Operating Systems.

Baige.

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### Re: "Nerd Sniping" Discussion

No such thing.

b.i.o
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### Re: "Nerd Sniping" Discussion

Just of note, the grid of resistors has some useful and unexpected applications it would seem.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_walk#Random_walk_on_graphs

Binary Dragon

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### Re: "Nerd Sniping" Discussion

dangil wrote:perhaps he should post a different kind of problem.. something like "what's the minimum set of words needed to make anyone fall in love with you instantly"

now THAT's interesting

14, apparently.

JMS wrote: Elric: We are dreamers, shapers, singers, and makers. We study the mysteries of laser and circuit, crystal and scanner, holographic demons and invocation of equations. These are the tools we employ, and we know many things.
John Sheridan: Such as?
Elric: The true secrets, the important things. 14 words to make someone fall in love with you forever. 7 words to make them go without pain, or say good-bye to a friend who is dying. How to be poor. How to be rich. How to rediscover dreams when the world has stolen them.
Vavrek

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### Re: "Nerd Sniping" Discussion

I'm just feeling a bit smug that mathematicians are worth more points than physicists, of course I always knew that, but it's nice to have it confirmed! (yes I'm a mathematician, in case you were wondering!)
Pseudo341

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### Re: "Nerd Sniping" Discussion

dangil wrote:perhaps he should post a different kind of problem.. something like "what's the minimum set of words needed to make anyone fall in love with you instantly"

now THAT's interesting

I have a sudden urge to post a link, despite how old the video is.

Oh screw it, I can't resist.

Sorry... but I have to fulfill my daily nerdiness quota or I might ending up becoming a normal... I might even end up with a girlfriend! Then when would I find time to program?
Possumdude9

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### Re: "Nerd Sniping" Discussion

I have sadistic roommates, it seems. So I showed this to a roommate in physics, and we started talking about it(and the one bit on this thread above about the 3D solution). Obviously, the resistance goes down as the number of dimensions goes up, but is there a finite number of dimensions where resistance goes to zero? That is, is there a finite number of dimensions where *any* sufficiently large object is a superconductor? We're leaning to "no", but neither of us is sure offhand. Any thoughts, or wacky proofs?

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### Re: "Nerd Sniping" Discussion

Vavrek wrote:
dangil wrote:perhaps he should post a different kind of problem.. something like "what's the minimum set of words needed to make anyone fall in love with you instantly"

now THAT's interesting

14, apparently.

JMS wrote: Elric: We are dreamers, shapers, singers, and makers. We study the mysteries of laser and circuit, crystal and scanner, holographic demons and invocation of equations. These are the tools we employ, and we know many things.
John Sheridan: Such as?
Elric: The true secrets, the important things. 14 words to make someone fall in love with you forever. 7 words to make them go without pain, or say good-bye to a friend who is dying. How to be poor. How to be rich. How to rediscover dreams when the world has stolen them.

would that be from the elric saga? i have to start reading those again. I started the first one years ago when i was like 14 and never finished.

on topic: yea, that wouldn't stop me either. it'd have to be something like "what's the meaning of the purple check-mark in Danielewski's 'House of Leaves'?" or "What is the significance of the MC in 'Cabaret'?", "Why, in the context of the story and themes of the album, are the closing notes of 'Closer' repeated in 'The Downward Spiral' on NIN's 'The Downward Spiral'?" or "What do the similarities between Oceanic and Judeo-Christian creation stories tell us about human society and psychology?" Anything similar to those will stop me dead in my tracks.

Surgery

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### Re: "Nerd Sniping" Discussion

I'm going to keep a lookout for trucks with FOOOOM written on top of them. A flawless plan.
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predatormc

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### Re: All that math for nothing (0) XD

*ME* wrote:The answere is 0 there are always a greater or equal number of length path (series) (i.e. 3 paths 3 long, 7 5 long ect.)that add to greater then 1 (parrallel) this goes on infinitly (infinite grid) adding up to infinite inverse an infinite and you get 0.

You first have to proof that the number of path of a certain length grow faster than their resistance.

PS: Nice job sniping me, i created an account for this sh*t.
E.A. Foe

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### Re: "Nerd Sniping" Discussion

I'm counting 3 pathways to get a resistance of 3 ohms, 8 ways to get 5 ohms, 14 to get 7 ohms... Stopped counting there, and I wouldn't be surprised if I missed one or two paths in there. But just keep counting and see what it converges to.

If I had to guess, though, because it's a google labs test, the "googled" answer of 2/pi is probably what they're looking for. Kind of like that other question where google labs asks you what the 503rd digit of pi is or something.

Aetre

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### Re: "Nerd Sniping" Discussion

Well it worked on me.

I'm begging anyone with a link to an analytical solution to this problem, please post it. I'd really like to get some sleep tonight

(I found one page, but the site seems to have reached its data limit, fancy that )

KoopaTroopa

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### Re: "Nerd Sniping" Discussion

ep103 wrote:w00t its 2/pi ohms!

Now get moving before you all get hit by trucks

Stick Spoiler over this post please! I wanted to solve it on my own!
Deviant

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### Re: "Nerd Sniping" Discussion

Surgery wrote:
Vavrek wrote:
dangil wrote:perhaps he should post a different kind of problem.. something like "what's the minimum set of words needed to make anyone fall in love with you instantly"

now THAT's interesting

14, apparently.

JMS wrote: Elric: We are dreamers, shapers, singers, and makers. We study the mysteries of laser and circuit, crystal and scanner, holographic demons and invocation of equations. These are the tools we employ, and we know many things.
John Sheridan: Such as?
Elric: The true secrets, the important things. 14 words to make someone fall in love with you forever. 7 words to make them go without pain, or say good-bye to a friend who is dying. How to be poor. How to be rich. How to rediscover dreams when the world has stolen them.

would that be from the elric saga? i have to start reading those again. I started the first one years ago when i was like 14 and never finished.

Nope, it's a Babylon 5 quote (actually, I suspect it's from the Crusade pilot).

Sadly, I'm reasonably sure Elric doesn't give any hints as to what any of these ultimately useful words actually are.
cathrl

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### Re: "Nerd Sniping" Discussion

Surgery wrote:would that be from the elric saga? i have to start reading those again. I started the first one years ago when i was like 14 and never finished.

The name "Sheridan" and the writer "jms" make me think it's Babylon 5.
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### Re: "Nerd Sniping" Discussion

william wrote:
Surgery wrote:would that be from the elric saga? i have to start reading those again. I started the first one years ago when i was like 14 and never finished.

The name "Sheridan" and the writer "jms" make me think it's Babylon 5.

ah, ok, thanks. having never seen Babylon 5 the names sheridan and jms didn't stick out to me. The name elric did though because i very rarely ever see it, and the elric saga is either the earliest or most prominent encounter i can recall with that name. nevertheless, i think i still shall try to find that book again.

Surgery

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### Re: Resistance is futile...

*ME* wrote:
floyd4one wrote:
*ME* wrote:The answere is 0 there are always a greater or equal number of length path (series) (i.e. 3 paths 3 long, 7 5 long ect.)that add to greater then 1 (parrallel) this goes on infinitly (infinite grid) adding up to infinite inverse an infinite and you get 0.

But who's gonna be making sure the electrons choose the paths you want them to

That is why it says ideal not real ><, man I am nerdy I started a forum account just because I figured out (in under a minute no less) the answer on a webcomic XD

Don't forget, though, that the electrons have to pass through resistors in series before they reach the resistors in parallel; at every junction, you'd have a potential divider, and as you get further and further away from the start node, the output voltage would get smaller and smaller, tending to 0 at infinite distance. As a result, most electrons would tend to travel a relatively short distance before hopping through the parallel part, so the system would have a finite resistance. If there were only resistors on the horizontal parts, with perfectly conductive wires on the verticals parts, then I think your answer would probably be correct.

schrodingersduck

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### Re: "Nerd Sniping" Discussion

This is genius ! I have to try that. Wouldn't work with me though. Maybe a difficult philosophical question would do better. Or a koan.
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pKp

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### Re: "Nerd Sniping" Discussion

Alsadius wrote:I have sadistic roommates, it seems. So I showed this to a roommate in physics, and we started talking about it(and the one bit on this thread above about the 3D solution). Obviously, the resistance goes down as the number of dimensions goes up, but is there a finite number of dimensions where resistance goes to zero? That is, is there a finite number of dimensions where *any* sufficiently large object is a superconductor? We're leaning to "no", but neither of us is sure offhand. Any thoughts, or wacky proofs?

I'm going to go ahead and say no, but for a different reason than you'd expect: 1/f noise (which goes as f^(-a) has `a' go to 1 in the limit of D=infinity (where D is the dimension). So while there's a finite (as well as an infinite) number of dimensions in which the measurable resistance is smaller than the electrical noise, you'll never be able to measure a resistance of 0 even with infinitely many dimensions.
Corrag

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### Re: "Nerd Sniping" Discussion

floyd4one wrote:Actually this problem is solved using a 2D Fourier series.

That's the problem with EE. I used to like electronics until all you math weenies ruined it for me.

-----

*That* was cool. And new to me. Thanks for the link. (Though some of the math went over this computer geek's head, I got enough to quite enjoy it.)

-----

cathrl wrote:Nope, it's a Babylon 5 quote (actually, I suspect it's from the Crusade pilot).

No, it's from the original B5 series. The one where the Technomages are first introduced. Um, "The Geometry of Shadows", according to Wikipedia.

Damnit, now I want to start re-watching the entire series again. Must... not... open... DVD... cabinet... must leave for work...
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### Re: "Nerd Sniping" Discussion

hmmm.... now if... no... if....

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