Meta Mafia II: Day 5

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Sabrar
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Sabrar » Tue May 29, 2018 7:46 pm UTC

SDK wrote:A GoJoe post where you complain that I'm not reading you as town when you in fact were not town, right?
Nope, you've got it wrong. You analyzed me, found me suspicious and then completely backed off me because of a flimsy reason. Town!you would never have done that.

SDK wrote:plytho, Sabrar and Vicarin deserve the most focus, in my opinion.
Why Vicarin, why not one of your other scum-reads?

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby SDK » Tue May 29, 2018 7:59 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
SDK wrote:A GoJoe post where you complain that I'm not reading you as town when you in fact were not town, right?
Nope, you've got it wrong. You analyzed me, found me suspicious and then completely backed off me because of a flimsy reason. Town!you would never have done that.

Now I'm even more confused. Are you saying I'm doing that this game?

Sabrar wrote:Why Vicarin, why not one of your other scum-reads?

You got me to take a closer look at Vicarin's latest post in particular. It is a bit troubling when looked at from a scum mindset. It would be good to get more people discussing that. It would also be good to get Vicarin's thoughts on the rest of the players.

wam and freezeblade also don't really have much to analyze properly, and in any case, I'm starting to feel like they may be town.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Sabrar » Tue May 29, 2018 8:25 pm UTC

SDK wrote:Now I'm even more confused. Are you saying I'm doing that this game?
You really don't understand?

SDK wrote:wam and freezeblade also don't really have much to analyze properly, and in any case, I'm starting to feel like they may be town.
What exactly has wam done since this post that made you change your mind?

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby plytho » Tue May 29, 2018 8:32 pm UTC

SDK wrote:
plytho wrote:Hmmm. The problem here is that Mark explicitly stated that it was a question about his role-pm before you asked him this question. If that wasn't the case, sure you're not explicitly role-fishing, here it is the case, though.
I did my read through post in chronological order. Sometimes that means I ask questions that get deleted in the final version. I came upon that answer after writing the question, then decided not to delete the question since I thought it still added value to ask for the specifics.

It took you a while to state that you were aware that Mark's question was about his role pm. You're saying you think it added value to ask for specifics of a question about a role-pm, but still didn't consider that role to be anything but vanilla or scum?

It also feels inconsistent with your earlier statements
SDK wrote:I thought we'd get a simple answer back like "Clarification on my posting restriction" or "A question about Matrix14"
There's no mention of matrix 14 in the role pm.

I also just realised you're making stuff up!

You couldn't delete the question from your reads list since you asked the question before your reads list.

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vote:SDK
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby wam » Tue May 29, 2018 8:42 pm UTC

Yeah Working through my reads list now but that slip looks pretty damming to me

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby wam » Tue May 29, 2018 8:48 pm UTC

Reads

Freeze - Intial content is waffly. THen does the grouping thing, which I think I rember snark doing.

freezeblade wrote:
wam wrote:@freeze snark was the one player who could always call.me correctly as scum so no pressure!
Are you claiming scum here? :lol:


Nope Im saying your responsible if I get mislynched!

Explanation of the groups makes sense to me. I get the pressure due to the lurking but I think its within Freeze's Meta and not enough for me to go for a lynch.

Jimbobmacdoodle - I think the early content felt weird to me but I think its due to the RP. The reads list seems reasonably thought out and the logic makes sense. Its only a town lean as I know Jimbob can fake it.

Laserguy - Like others I am enjoying the roleplaying. I think the content is looks good but I am struggling to get to the bottom of his exact thoughts on things due to the RP.

MAdge - I think the content is good. I also think Scum Madge would find tunneling Bessie much harder. Therefore I am going to go against tradition and give madge a D1 town read. I have seen the comments that the reads are odd, which is true but they strike me as madge trying to do reads with little information rather than scum madge trying to make them up.

Mark_Canigla - I did get a town read from his early posts but there is not enough content later on D1 so thats going to be a nuetral read.

Moody - Talking about watching people was a bit weird. @ Moody what took mark from slightly scummy to desired lynch? NEutral read by me on moody.

Mpolo - REading in isolation defintely not as much content as I thought there was. I will withold judgement till the promised post.

Plytho - I like the reads good townie logic. The iso on Madge versus mark I think is definetly done from a town perspective. Also a lot of content! So solid town read.

Sabrar - Reading through his posts makes my head hurt with the combination of Sabrar logic in PW style! There are some good points in there but I just don't get the same sabrar town vibe I normally do. BUt it maybe the RPing..... Hmm slightly scummy.

SDK - There is a lot of weird points. One that stuck out is plytho as possible scum when hes my strongest town read.... CAre to elaborate SDK. Also as plytho has established the Mark Role pm thing is very worrying. Scum

Threetwoone - Early newbie town vibe but not enough content wont' bother doing more till we get some content from the replacement.

Vicarin - I agree with Sabrar's comment that normally vicarin is so obv town it hurts (see Alien). I'm not getting that this game. - Scummy

Town
Plytho
Jimbob
Laserguy
Madge
Moody
MArk
Mpolo
Freezeblade
Sabrar
Vicarin
SDK

Scum

PS Sabrar can I have a pic of your avatar, I'm feeling left out! Also I should have more time D2 so will try and improve my role playing.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby moody7277 » Tue May 29, 2018 8:52 pm UTC

Vicarin

Spoiler:
post 1: confirming
post 2: joke votes wam. asks about favorite numbers. more RP

A little ambiguous on whether he meant actual numbers, or what setups we liked.

post 3: detailed setup spec with emphasis on what the bad guys can figure out

I like this post because it has a tangible example of how some types of discussion might actually benefit the bad guys, instead of the more common "why this is bad is left as an excercise for the reader"

post 4: unvotes. response to plytho on an issue he raised on the setup discussion. role usage discussion with the conclusion that the game will be open pretty quick. promise of reads

post 5: annoyance at Sabrar's cryptic comment.

I'm sure there are several people who can sympathise.

post 6: partial reads, with wam, SDK, and Madge as townie, suspicious of LG and fb.

post 7: votes fb for lurking. Somewhat ill opinion of Mark.

Conclusion: about a +7 on the scale. (+10 most townie/-10 most scummy)

question ninja:
wam wrote:@ Moody what took mark from slightly scummy to desired lynch?


Among my scummier reads, I want to give you a closer look, and I can almost explain LG's weirdness as posing as Madge related.
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Sabrar » Tue May 29, 2018 8:58 pm UTC

wam wrote:PS Sabrar can I have a pic of your avatar, I'm feeling left out!
You can have my old one.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Mark_Cangila » Tue May 29, 2018 9:04 pm UTC

Don't bus me yet. I was offline over the weekend and am writing a long post rn. Give me till tmrw.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Tue May 29, 2018 9:19 pm UTC

Mark_Cangila wrote:Don't bus me yet. I was offline over the weekend and am writing a long post rn. Give me till tmrw.
I'm assuming this is a newbie terminology mistake. Bussing is what scum do to their buddies when they support their lynch, usually as an attempt to distance themselves and get town credit after the lynch. You probably mean wagon, or similar.

Going to update my reads now.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby freezeblade » Tue May 29, 2018 9:24 pm UTC

Mark_Cangila wrote:Don't bus me yet. I was offline over the weekend and am writing a long post rn. Give me till tmrw.


I know you're a relative newbie 'round these parts, so I'll let this slide a bit more than I would otherwise (Others might not be as forgiving), but to [incorrectly] quote princess bride: "You use this word, I do not think it means what you think it means."

Bussing is something that scum will do to a buddy, throwing them under the [lynch] bus to make themselves look better in eyes of the town. Your statement looks like signaling to a scum buddy not to attack you yet, due to possible lack of Day-chat. This would likely be considered a Big SlipTM, with a possible result of a lighting quick lynch wagon appearing.

Ninja'd by Jimbob. Yeah. That.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Mark_Cangila » Tue May 29, 2018 9:57 pm UTC

Ohhhhhh. I meant that you shouldn't move to lynch me yet. I think I meant wagon. EBWOP wagon not bus

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby moody7277 » Tue May 29, 2018 10:26 pm UTC

Mark_Cangila wrote:Ohhhhhh. I meant that you shouldn't move to lynch me yet. I think I meant wagon. EBWOP wagon not bus


You've got ~12 hours unless Diemo and bessie give us an extension (which I fully support) to give us a good reason. Then again, the SDK wagon was rolling along rather well for reasons that on first look are kind of serious and should be something I ought to delve into.
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Tue May 29, 2018 11:17 pm UTC

Updated stupid D1 reads. Writing walls takes up so much time, when there's nothing worth analysing.

freezeblade - (previously scummy due to active lurking): 23 posts since my original reads. This might be a hint of OMGUS, since it includes me, but I find his focus on one team specifically a little weird, possibly even forced. He notes me calling only "one other member townie, Sabrar". I'm unsure what he's talking about here, because I also called Madge and plytho some degrees of town in my reads list, in addition to moody and Sabrar. LaserGuy's town read of me felt simply like a throw-away RP comment, indicating where he currently stands on me. I'm not sure I'd classify it as weird banter, just Madge-like style. Still feeling suspicious, though not as badly as before, because at least he's committed to some very basic reads on a few people.

LaserGuy - (previously insufficient data - only two unexplained reads): Quite a few more posts since my last reads list. I still would like explanations in the reads, but I accept that this is real-LaserGuy creeping in, and I think if I were to note them all down, then he has at least got reads on most players. He's observed the same issue as me, with regards Madge's reads list having some weird placements. Slight town lean. Will expect more explanations from him D2 though, or he'll rapidly slide down the pile. Also, the voting is close, so I expect him to vote.

@mods - like LaserGuy, although D1 is a terrible idea and we should get through it quickly, I won't oppose an extension. But also happy to wait until Night for threetwoone to be replaced.

Madge - (previously probably town): I have no issues with Madge's side of the werewolf/SK discussion with Mark. I like the fact that she's not overly-focusing on that discussion, and is also addressing other comments and posts. Pending re-reading Mark (to follow next), her vote on Mark feels a little over the top. It's worth noting that Madge does not usually vote D1 unless there's somebody who seems clearly scummy to her. I don't know what scum!Madge would do (@Madge - when was the last time you were actually scum?). Her focus on LaserGuy, and his statement that the colour orange is stupid, is weird. It seemed obvious to me that he was meaning it as a joke comment. I don't agree with this conclusion necessarily:
Madge wrote:so his[Mark's] question either came from not reading the setup closely (probably reasonably likely for a newbie in confirm phase—the setup wasn’t prominently indicated prior to the game), or from being worried about the possibility of a rival scum team.
It is certainly possible for town!Mark to have asked this question in an attempt to start discussion. I still think she's town, but I'm less confident of this read than before.

Madge wrote:It’s like you’ve taken my advice of identifying someone scummy to try and bring the focus off you and you’re putting it 100% to work
When I did my original reads list, I actually had to double check that Mark's attack on you started before your comments about finding somebody else scummy to relieve pressure!

Mark - (previously slightly scummy, due to lack of reads, or indeed any content away from the Madge/werewolf/SK discussion): I think his jump to believing Madge is a wolf/SK based on Madge's content is a bit of a stretch. I also don't think he's right to assume that her forgetting to respond following the confirmation post is indicative of anything. Slightly scummy, and getting worse from before, but may review following his promised longer post.
Mark_Cangila wrote:Don't bus me yet. I was offline over the weekend and am writing a long post rn. Give me till tmrw.
I'm not basing my read on this, but it's worth noting that Mark posted both Saturday and Sunday, so this isn't exactly the truth. Also worth pointing out that deadline is not far away, so this longer post better appear by the time I get up tomorrow morning.

moody - (previously slightly townie due to solid, matching reads): His question to Madge re. Sabrar hiding potentially useful info feels a bit weird on reread (especially given that Sabrar didn't call it "powerful" in any way). I'm not bothered by the watcher/tracker mix up. It's a mistake that has been made on so many previous occasions (sometimes even by mods) that it's null. I assume he's talking about watching/tracking people to indicate his towniest/scummiest reads. The seemingly-random +7 on a town/scum scale for Vicarin is a bit out-of-the-blue, and I've found this sort of play suspicious in the past (see comments directed at Hari Seldon in past games). I'll try to update this thought once I read Vicarin to see if I agree or not (added later - hmm... sounds a bit dodgy given Vicarin's posts). His earlier reads still gives him decent town credit, but he's sliding slightly backwards due to these points.

mpolo - (insufficient data, due to low content): still very little content, apart from a couple of comments on freezeblade and Mark. His lack of reads, or even comments, on anybody else is disappointing, and he's at risk of being labelled a lurker, unless he provides those further reads. Insufficient data at risk of being labelled as scum for lurking.

plytho - (weak town lean, shutting down vendor discussion early): I already made some comments about his reads list not feeling great. Looking at it again, I see he's labelled Vicarin as scummy as well for not being obv-town. I will consider this later, when I get to the Vicarin re-read (added later - yes, I tentatively agree here). I do like that he didn't bring up Mark's role PM question comment, until essentially he had to. I like that he went to a decent effort to analyse Madge versus Mark, including prodding Mark for reads away from Madge. However, I don't agree with his eventual conclusion of Madge more likely scum than Mark. I also like that he's started prodding several other players in various ways (SDK question to Mark, prod for votes etc). I can understand his vote on SDK for "making stuff up". I'd like a response from SDK on that before commenting on it further. Overall, although I disagree with some of plytho's conclusions, he does seem to be putting in decent effort, so I'm giving him a town read.

Sabrar - (slightly town, mostly gut feeling): He's continued to post reads that seem to come a little out of nowhere (plytho not mafia, but could be werewolf?? for example). He did at least give justifications for his earlier reads. I like his prod of Vicarin to explain his numbers question. I also like the pressure he's putting on SDK (I'm used to seeing SDK put that sort of pressure on others!). His vote on wam was a bit of a surprise, but that's the only thing I find that I don't particularly like in his recent content. Probably town.

@Sabrar - is there more to your belief that wam is scum than your "try-hard defence" comment? Would you explain it please? Also, is the tradition comment in any way important, because if so, I missed what it was about?

SDK - (insufficient data): On the surface, his question to Mark does seem suspicious, but I'm potentially willing to accept his explanation. His reads list indicates that he's not paid attention to everything that has been said (e.g. saying the LaserGuy has no reads, saying I pointed out Sabrar's fake list). I'm not sure which side this is more likely to come from. He jumps on the freezeblade wagon with basically no explanation, which I don't find to be cool. This comment seems almost contradictory:
SDK wrote:@Mark, please don't answer my question about your PM. Sabrar (and jimbob? NO! plytho, damnit!**) is right that it will do more harm than good. Answer my other questions though, please.

**I was so confused for a minute there! I thought one of my towniest reads (jimbob) was going down the gutter, but it turns out plytho might just be scum instead. Whew!
@SDK - are you saying plytho might be scum for advising Mark to NOT answer the question? Or are you referring to the later comments you make against plytho?

His vote on Sabrar I don't particularly like, since Sabrar is a strong town read for me currently. However, I'm willing to buy that he might just be misguided, as he seems to have some solid (at least in his eyes) reasons for it. I'm running low on time, so haven't looked at all of his posts in detail. Overall I don't have a good read on SDK currently. There are some good, townie points, but I'm not convinced Sabrar v SDK is town v town, which makes SDK likely scum. Independent of that, I'd probably label him as very slight town.

threetwoone - (insufficient data): His desire to wagon freezeblade seems a little weird. Nothing else that I can comment on. Slightly suspect, but really insufficient data.

Vicarin - (slight scummy lean - un-Vicarin style low content): Still much less content from Vicarin than I'm used to - 4 more posts in two days, of which one is about setup, another about Sabrar's "don't discuss this thing that you don't know" post, a reads list, and a rush-sounding vote on freezeblade. I do like his observation that Madge has a strong town read on him unexpectedly. I don't like that he still hasn't posted reads of four players yet, 24 hours or so after promising them and with little time left in the day. His reads list is pretty brief, but do mostly match mine except for the wam read. Still slight scummy lean, due to low content, and un-Vicarin-like posting frequency.

wam - (previously a bit scummy - lacking follow up, low content about most players, possible OMGUS): He refuses to get on freezeblade's wagon (typical D1 freezeblade), which is okay. He prods Mark about strategies relating to wolves, which is also okay. Votes SDK for an apparent slip to do with timing, which feels like a bit of a jump. His reads list isn't terrible, although I do disagree with his Sabrar read, and I disagree with him on plytho's reads list being good. Aside from the reads list, there is just very little from wam, compared to what he normally posts, which feels a bit off. Slightly scummy as a result.

Town
Sabrar
plytho
Madge
moody
SDK (ignoring Sabrar v SDK being probably town v scum)
LaserGuy
threetwoone
mpolo
Vicarin
wam
freezeblade
Mark
Scum

Will review my vote in the morning, based on what Mark and freezeblade post whilst I'm asleep.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Mark_Cangila » Tue May 29, 2018 11:23 pm UTC

Sorry it's been so long. I've had a friend over this weekend, and we were focusing on coding.
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:
Mark_Cangila wrote:I'm scared because a strategy that would be good without a Werewolf could possibly be awful for town with a Werewolf
Whilst your point is correct, I'm not seeing much strategy talk in thread. There's the fruit vendor one, and that's about it. What strategy are you referring to here?

I wasn't talking about a specific strategy here. Just how a game with Werewolf/SK would play out differently, and we should plan to see one.
plytho wrote:What do you mean by “the fact that it is in the confirm post seems like a good excuse.”?

I mean that it seems convenient IMO. If she wrote in in a GDoc she should have seen it, no?
SDK wrote:Mark, question for you: what did you send that PM about in the pregame?

I know you told me not to answer, but it doesn't give anything away. I was asking about the posting restriction, as I didn't know if it was required, or just RP. SDK however didn't know that when he posted, but then he told me not to answer. All in all, this seems like role-fishing to me.
Sabrar wrote:@Mark: could you please post your opinion on jimbob, LaserGuy, moody and mpolo?

  1. LaserGuy: He hasn't done that much so far. No read list at all. However, he still has been contributing somewhat. His talk about the fruit vendor is
    useful to town. He's slightly towny imo.
  2. jimbob: Jimbob seems fine. He's been active. His reads list was nice and in depth. I disagree with his attack against Plytho. I like what Plytho said about Freezeblade not active lurking. Being quiet on D1 seems to be Freezeblade's meta. I would say lean town.
  3. moody7727: Mentions that a 9/2/2 setup would be bad for town. I agree. They (what pronoun would you prefer. I can't find your post in the thread for it) brought up a random 3 person list, which I dislike. At that point some leads were showing up. You shouldn't still poke around randomly. Their reads list was good. I agree with them on the Sabrar plan. It feels really underhanded, and not bringing something up seems suspicious to me. @Sabrar, can you explain without helping scum? I don't understand how she later goes from calling me "Slightly scummy" and supporting watching mpolo or Sabrar to voting for me. All in all, I feel like they are working with Madge, which I find suspicious. leaning scummy.
  4. mpolo: Also having issues with separating RP and actual play. He is also suspicious of FB. However, all in all, minimal content. Neutral so far.
SDK wrote:Do you have any other people you think might be scum, Mark? What do you think of Sabrar or freezeblade?

I don't get all the push against freezeblade. It's been a long weekend, and freezeblade is usually quiet during D1. However, this bothers me.
freezeblade wrote:On Lynching me: Lynching me will do no good for town, and be great for scum

@Freezeblade: Can you explain without helping scum? If you can't that's fine, but it seems like a gambit to me. It's early for a gambit though, so this seems like a bad move if you were scum.
jimbobmacdoodle wrote: it's worth noting that Mark posted both Saturday and Sunday, so this isn't exactly the truth.

I did post Saturday and Sunday. I forgot about those :oops:. I mean I didn't do any long posts or concentrated reading of the chat. Those posts were rushed.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Mark_Cangila » Tue May 29, 2018 11:23 pm UTC

There. In time too.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Mark_Cangila » Tue May 29, 2018 11:40 pm UTC

One more thing to add. I don't like Vicarin either. It seems Town!Vic is really aggressive and obvious. At least, that's what I got from last game. He seems really toned down this game.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby SDK » Wed May 30, 2018 12:19 am UTC

plytho wrote:I also just realised you're making stuff up!

You couldn't delete the question from your reads list since you asked the question before your reads list.

Huh, true enough. It was written right beforehand. I think what I was remembering was that I chose not to correct myself or retract the question after the fact? Same general idea anyway.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby SDK » Wed May 30, 2018 12:20 am UTC

I folks don't want to lynch Sabrar with me, I'd be game for plytho if thats more appealing.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Vicarin » Wed May 30, 2018 12:55 am UTC

Ok. People asked why I asked my initial questions in my first post. I was trying to leave the option open for someone to breadcrumb their role decently easily, but reading over what everyone said I'm pretty sure noone used it for that purpose. Oh well.

Other reads:

moody: provides reasonable first reads list. Been asking some questions, did the classic Vytron self vote (but no beer). Probably town?

mpolo: puts in commentary every so often but hasn't been driving discussions as much. Now much more deserving of the active lurker title than freezeblade who's been putting out some good content.

jimbob: been driving a lot of discussion D1 with questions to many people. Then puts out a gigantic reads list. Still been asking more questions up until now. If he's not town, he's doing a great job at faking it.

Sabrar: first reads list is very, very weird overall. Apparently mainly to get reactions, but still weird. Asks questions of the newer players. Was initially reading as scum, but has been ending up in enough fights that I'm feeling a bit better about him now. Neutral.

Overall, rereading made it kind of obvious just how little mpolo has been doing. Everything seems to be restated once someone else has said it. And the continual promises for more content without delivering are becoming dangerous seeing as day may end in about 12 hours.

Unvote: freezeblade

Vote: mpolo


Also, somewhat interesting seeing the stuff going on with SDK...

@SDK: could you explain your 'Probably Town' read of mpolo earlier, considering you provided no explanation?

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby SDK » Wed May 30, 2018 1:34 am UTC

Pure gut. Historically I've been able to read mpolo quite reliably from taste alone.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby SDK » Wed May 30, 2018 1:36 am UTC

Unvote, Vote plytho.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Vicarin » Wed May 30, 2018 1:52 am UTC

That's not a terribly reassuring answer.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby bessie » Wed May 30, 2018 2:42 am UTC

As the shadows on the ground became longer, the arguments of the children became louder.

SDK: I’m pretty sure Sabrar is scum!
Sabrar: Oh, yeah, I’m pretty sure SDK is scum!
Dog: Woof woof!
Madge: Well I’m not sure I trust the new kid.
threetwoone: Ok fine, I don’t wanna play anyway.

[threetwoone runs off]

LaserGuy: Um, is he coming back?
Diemo: If he doesn’t we’ll just play without him.


Official Votals:

Madge (1) : Mark_Cangila
freezeblade (1) : jimbobmacdoodle
Mark_Cangila (2) : Madge, moody7277
wam (1) : Sabrar
SDK (2) : plytho, wam
mpolo (1) : Vicarin
plytho (1) : SDK

Not Voting (4) : freezeblade, LaserGuy, mpolo, threetwoone

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to hammer.



Deadline is Wednesday 30th May 3PM GMT+1


Diemo will make all decisions regarding deadlines and extensions. As of the time of this post, he has not granted an extension, so you should play accordingly. Reminder, per Game Specific Rule #3, you may still post and change votes (unless a hammer has been reached) until the mod announces the end of day.

mpolo wrote:How great is the danger of a modkill? Or is replacement still likely?
As of the time of this post, a replacement has not yet been found.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby SDK » Wed May 30, 2018 2:49 am UTC

Vicarin wrote:That's not a terribly reassuring answer.

He doesn't have much real content yet. What did you expect me to say?

Anyway, you can look back to my very firstborn game on this site if you like - Seaside. Caught mpolo Day 1 and forever afterwards.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Vicarin » Wed May 30, 2018 3:07 am UTC

I'd expect you to point at the bits you find especially townie, if you're reading him that way. If you do think he's not got much real content, I'd expect that to be mentioned, or for you to give him a null read. But you didn't do either of those.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby SDK » Wed May 30, 2018 4:16 am UTC

I didn't (and don't) have a null read. I didn't (and don't) have anything to point to. Yeah, could have pointed that out, but I kinda liked it standing out in my list as it was.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Sabrar » Wed May 30, 2018 5:21 am UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:@Sabrar - is there more to your belief that wam is scum than your "try-hard defence" comment? Would you explain it please?
SDK's distancing/defense of wam also plays a role in this.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Also, is the tradition comment in any way important, because if so, I missed what it was about?
It's a joke. I traditionally lynch wam D1 and then complain about having noone to argue with...

Mark_Cangila wrote:@Sabrar, can you explain without helping scum?
This can be a topic early D2.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby mpolo » Wed May 30, 2018 5:31 am UTC

I have read through plytho:

Spoiler:
Confirm
Setup spec / assuming 10-3 no daychat
Against town apple claims b/c gives info to scum
RC probably won’t hit a power role on N1. Setup discussion more on D2.
(RL pause)
Again about RC hitting vanilla townie. Arguing odds. Suspicion of Mark without reason given.
Working on a wall. Exchange with Mark about Madge.
Doesn’t know how to avoid something that Sabrar wants him to avoid.
Notes that moody responded to tracker question rather than watcher question that was asked
Reads – Freezeblade only suspicious due to link with Madge. Jimbob is reasonable, but quick to call freezeblade a lurker. LaserGuy seems to be roleplaying, also with his lower content. Madge has an odd callout of Mark, assumes daychat, defensive of self and freezeblade. Pressure on Mark is unfounded. Moody is neutral/towny. Sabrar hard to read because of RP, agree with reads. SDK little content until reads list. Vicarin starts roleplaying/fishing. Reads list is missing. Wam defended Mark, but not overly. Votes Madge.
Avoiding talking about something, but not sure if it is what Sabrar doesn’t want discussed.
Mark’s statement about PM to mod implies not Vanilla Town.
Freezblade more suspicious after weekend. SDK rolefishing.
Suspicious of fb connected with Madge.
Reads Mark/Madge in isolation. Madge’s points don’t always fit with the setup, Mark seems more genuine. But may be Town on town.
Questions for non-voters.
Even though tunnelling might be roleplaying, Madge seems to be acting with weak reasoning. Defends reads list.
Responds to a general LG post.
SDK delayed a lot in admitting that he understood what Mark’s question was about, still claims not to think this means he is a power role. SDK seems to be making things up. Votes SDK.


I am fairly comfortable with his content. The possibility of a link between freezeblade and Madge is interesting. He has me convinced that I don't want to go sticking my fingers into Mark at the moment. And that SDK should be the next re-read.

Conclusion: plytho is not vote-worthy at the moment.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby mpolo » Wed May 30, 2018 5:55 am UTC

Re-reading SDK:

Spoiler:
Confirm
Warns about possible lurkage. Explains setup for me.
Joke vote wam
More on setup
Sabrar indicated a setup where Mafia immediately knows the setup. Exchange with wam about pressure (prob. Roleplay)
Avoid confusion with names!
Asks about Mark’s PM question
Reads: Madge OK. LaserGuy needs reads. Sabrar’s fake list may be scummy. His list of lynchables is people he hasn’t discussed much. Wam has one pingy post, and responds to a joke list. Moody has variable quality. Vicarin waiting on reads. Plytho generally good. 321: minor town vibes. Jimbob very good reads. Freezeblade didn’t vote Madge after threat about reads votes. Mark thinks Madge is a WW.
Seems to misconstrue a wam post (if I am construing him correctly).
I was misconstruing.
Naugty-Nice list (for 6 people)
Jokey exchange with Sabrar, asks for justifications.
Asks for extension. Thinks Madge tunnelling is roleplay. Is Sabrar voting OMGUS? More exchange with Sabrar. Vicarin’s first meaty post is better. Mark should not answer questions about PM. Now thinks plytho may be scum (reads not in a townie mindset, particularly Sabrar, jimbob, Madge). Admits rolefishing that wasn’t caught. Plytho should not be lynch today. Votes Sabrar.
Sabrar’s response to pressure looks like Diablo Mafia.
Vicarin’s content weak until first reads list. Vote on freezeblade may be opportunistic. Explains why he wanted an answer from Mark. Totally missed the obvious reason for such a question.
Sabrar claiming SDK backed off for a flimsy reason. Vicarin looks worse from a scummy mindset.
Explains that he forgot exactly when he asked the question of Mark.
Willing to switch to plytho.
Explains town read on me.
Votes plytho.
Says he always catches me as scum early.
Does not have a null-read on me.


This one could honestly go both ways. There are some things (particularly early role-fishing/interest in Mark's infamous question) that feel very scummy. But the explanation that they are town slips cannot be totally discarded.

Conclusion: at least somewhat scummy. I still hope to do one more of these isolated reads, but to at least get a vote down:

Vote: SDK
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby LaserGuy » Wed May 30, 2018 6:10 am UTC

bessie wrote:Official Votals:

Madge (1) : Mark_Cangila
freezeblade (1) : jimbobmacdoodle
Mark_Cangila (2) : Madge, moody7277
wam (1) : Sabrar
SDK (2) : plytho, wam
mpolo (1) : Vicarin
plytho (1) : SDK

Not Voting (4) : freezeblade, LaserGuy, mpolo, threetwoone


Guys? Don't mean to alarm you but, we only have like 7 hours left to deadline and we have no agreement about anything. This is very bad. Assuming deadline holds, I personally have like three hours tops before bed, and won't be around after that.

This is my serious face.
:evil:

Okay, I've read through the business with SDK and plytho (and more tangentially Sabrar/Madge). It doesn't look all that great for SDK from where I'm sitting. I can see the possibility of a scenario where Town!SDK was genuinely trying to help Mark to diffuse Madge's tunnel, and wasn't really paying attention to the implications of what he was doing, and then later messed up on some of the details of the posting because he was busy/didn't consider it that significant. Main reason I want to give this scenario some credit, probably more than it deserves based on the facts as presented, as rolefishing is usually considered so scummy that mafia are normally extremely self-conscious about doing it compared to Townies, so it ends up being a tell that gives a lot of false positives. I think if SDK had just asked Mark, somebody pointed out it looked rolefishy and then he retracted and dropped it, I probably would just let it go. The further points by SDK that seem inconsistent or contradictory make this look at lot worse, however. I also don't like that SDK hasn't really attempted to refute this case, particularly, and seems intent on pushing this as scum-motivated, which I don't buy at all. I think this is a wagon that everyone should be seriously considering, and I would absolutely like to see every player make a comment on this before end of day.

@moody I don't see the case on Mark at all. can you explain your vote on him in a bit more detail? You gave him "slightly scummy" in your reads, then just kind of naked voted for him a bit later.

@Sabrar: Can you talk to me about wam? How confident are you in this read? What do you think of wam voting SDK at this juncture?

@Madge: Why is Vicarin your strongest Town read?

Liking mpolo and plytho's recent stuff.

Much as I don't like starting an eighth wagon at this juncture, I really do feel that this is the best way to go at the moment. I am a bit suspicious that several people have now commented something to the effect of "Vicarin is obvscum" then proceeded to ignore him and move their interests elsewhere. So I'm going to put this up there in the interim (ie. next hour or two). Willing to move to SDK or maybe wam if Sabrar is convincing enough. I think most of the other wagons are pretty bad.

Vote: Vicarin

:D
Not sure what came over me there. I must've nodded off.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby wam » Wed May 30, 2018 6:52 am UTC

If sdk or vic are scum laser looks bad for that post!

I am actually happy with a SDK, Vic or sabrar lunch or even lynch.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby wam » Wed May 30, 2018 6:54 am UTC

@sabrar how many times have you been convinced I was scum D1 and how many of those times were you right.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby wam » Wed May 30, 2018 7:03 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:@Sabrar - is there more to your belief that wam is scum than your "try-hard defence" comment? Would you explain it please?
SDK's distancing/defense of wam also plays a role .


I didn't notice this care to provide examples?
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Vicarin » Wed May 30, 2018 7:14 am UTC

Wait, LaserGuy looks bad if me or SDK are scum? Gonna have to explain that wam.

I still mostly like mpolo (those recent posts are kind of ok for looking at 2 people, but so damn late) for the lynch, but SDK is fine at this point. I don't think lynching Mark is a good idea.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby Sabrar » Wed May 30, 2018 7:15 am UTC

wam wrote:@sabrar how many times have you been convinced I was scum D1 and how many of those times were you right.
Looking at the most recent games it's 50-50 so far. I was wrong in Secret Santa, right in Alien Warfare. I was kind of suspicious of you in Stellaris D2 but unfortunately not enough.

wam wrote:
Sabrar wrote:SDK's distancing/defense of wam also plays a role .
I didn't notice this care to provide examples?
SDK distancing by agreeing with me on you while he questions or 'no comments' my other scum-reads. He puts you as 4th scummiest but gives plenty of reason not to lynch anyone besides me.
Later he defends without any reason whatsoever, this question is still outstanding and I find that very telling.

Seeing that a wam lynch is unlikely at this point we should go with SDK.

Unvote
Vote: SDK


@LaserGuy: I'm rarely sure about my D1 reads. I think wam/SDK are our best bet but I can see many other possibilities as well.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby wam » Wed May 30, 2018 7:18 am UTC

Vicarin wrote:Wait, LaserGuy looks bad if me or SDK are scum? Gonna have to explain that wam.
.


Just trust my plan!


Joking aside. If sdk is scum it looks like laser is trying to redirect the lynch at the last moment whilst still finding SDK scummy. I could also see a scenario where laser thinks he won't swing the lynch onto you today but wants a vote for distancing reasons.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby wam » Wed May 30, 2018 7:20 am UTC

That's SDK at 4 votes for reference. L-3
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby wam » Wed May 30, 2018 7:49 am UTC

@sabrar I don't really count alien given the role pm issues
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Wed May 30, 2018 8:27 am UTC

I'm amazed nobody's pointed this out yet, but Vicarin has basically admitted that he's PR hunting, by saying that he used his numbers question as an attempt for people to breadcrumb. If anybody had done so, scum!Vicarin would now presumably have been able to guess who were PRs and also what they were.

Freezeblade's not said anything else, but nobody else looks to support his lynch. Mark has posted a lengthy post that I need to revisit, but gave me some basic townie vibes on first glance. Wam I'm still not comfortable with, but looks like nobody wants to support lynching him either. All of which combined with Vic's post puts Vic as the best place for my vote:

Unvote
Vote Vicarin
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