Meta Mafia II: Day 5

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SDK
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby SDK » Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:40 pm UTC

wam wrote:
SDK wrote:
wam wrote:On that note all through N1 my view.waa.that SDK was scum that had managed to weasel out the lynch

You thought VIcarin would flip town? Can you explain why?

That clearly does not align with what you posted end of Day 2 (here and here, maybe elsewhere).



There's a logic fail in here that I think maybe a slip. This only works if you know SDK and Vicarin are opposite alignments. I thought that SDK was scum who got away with it. It doesn't therefore imply vic was town. I thought vic was scummy and wasn't sure overnight which way the flip would go. They could easily have been buddies.

Right, but "got away with it" or "weasel out" imply to me that I am scum who successfully got a townie lynched instead. Surely lynching my buddy instead, with me clearly on the chopping block for Day 2 doesn't count as getting away with anything. Right?

wam wrote:
SDK wrote:wam wrote:
I'm torn as I generally take the view information helps town but I can sort of see madges point. Will mull it over.

Did you check this for yourself when reading through Madge's post?


I don't understand the question?

"Madge's point" was that maybe the fruit receiver should not claim. She had some reasoning (based on Matrix14) to back that up. You presumably agreed with her reasoning. I'm asking whether you checked through the Matrix14 stuff for yourself to come to that conclusion?

wam wrote:Thought it was obvious, both con town we had thought you were scum.

You did have other comments there, but they were clearly not the focus of your post. Just though it was a bit strange that you didn't just come out and say that.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby wam » Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:32 pm UTC

@SDK nope didn't think about the getting a townie lynched. Tmby weasel out I meant saved yourself.

I had a quick look at the matrix 14 setup but didn't really analyse it.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby mpolo » Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:07 pm UTC

Did a quick re-read of D2 (did not indicate every single post):

Spoiler:
Wam: votes SDK; second and succeeding fruits should wait; Sees madge’s point, not sure. SDK scum → plytho town; Sabrar was convinced of Vic, suspicious of SDK, freeze and wam; Vic suspicious of SDK, Madge, mpolo. Wants top two lynch targets. Day 2 hasn’t affected reads. Did not think vic was town.
plytho: votes SDK; summary of argument against SDK; Thoughts on Fruit vendor: recipients should claim. Vendor claim could take pressure off of “real” Prs. Would like to know if there is a second scum-team, so fruit claim would help. Counterclaiming non-fruit is not a good idea. Reviews wagons from SDK=scum percentage: LaserGuy damns Vicarin, jimbob was always against vicarin. Only wants to lynch SDK (needs reread to get #2).
jimbob: not convinced about SDK. Phoneposting; Question about freezeblade’s vote; Still likes fruit recipient claim. Wam and plytho look good if SDK is scum. Compares people based on SDK’s alignment
Madge: Looks at Mark again – seems to be newbie town, probably, trusts plytho’s logic Votes SDK. Not sure about fruit vendors, thinks recipients should wait to confirm a vendor claim. Uncovers difference between text and matrix. Advice for Mark. Turns up the possibility of named fruits. Mafia gains less from a fruit claim than she thought.
Freezeblade: no claims. Jimbob was the scummiest at the point that he didn’t go to one of the wagons.
Boomfrog: Fruitreceiver should claim. SDK scum => wam town (ha). Wam and plytho are twon. Jimbob and freeze likely town. Mark is newbie scum if SDK is scum. Top 4 scum (SDK, Mark, mpolo, LaserGuy). SDK seems to be OMGUSing. Rolefishing was probably unintentional.
LaserGuy: Fruit recipient claim is good.
Moody: needs to reread
SDK: some reads (freeze, Sabrar, Vicarin scum). Explanation of the question. Would I be so stupid as scum as to ask that? Conflicted on moody. Fruit recipient, not vendor should claim. No, neither should claim. Assumes wam was reading Vic as town, but wam was ok with vic lynch. A mislynch is not doom today. Top 2 are freezeblade and wam. Explains assumption.


I am still torn on SDK. I totally see plytho's point, and I also noticed that Sabrar was reading into wam that he was "ok" with lynching someone he knew to be town, when I had read wam's post the way wam apparently intended it. On the plus side, he's putting a lot of effort into analysis (after he was called out a bit). Perhaps a little snarky in his defense (good argument, but my PM seems to indicate otherwise), which could also go either way (frustrated town or frustrated scum).

I think in the balance, SDK is still in my top two. There are a couple of really quiet people (LaserGuy, moody). I have a bit of a gut feeling on LaserGuy and am not really sure why, and don't have time to track it down now.

I am not sure what the vote count is, and don't want to provoke a quick lynch (probably not a danger, unless there is a second scum team, but I'm not risking it).

Tomorrow is check-in and tests at the hospital. I presume that I will get in at least briefly then. Friday is my operation, so I will sleep much of the day. Very uncertain whether I will get in. Saturday and Sunday should be certain participation unless the Wifi is down or something.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby plytho » Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:39 pm UTC

SDK wrote:
plytho wrote:The third mistake, which I'm really having trouble as seeing as anything but deliberate is not acknowledging we're talking about a role-pm here.
The fourth mistake is using your initial motivation for asking the question instead of the motivation for keeping the question. Why, from a townie perspective would you do this? You made a conscious decision to keep the question. That's obviously what we want to know about.

Ah, I think I see where we're miscommunicating now. So I wrote that question to Mark with the intention of getting him to clarify so Madge could focus elsewhere (if he was town) or so he could out himself (if he was a werewolf). I gave a few examples of what responses I expected I might get (a question about Matrix14, for example). That was my motivation for asking the question.

My motivation for keeping the question (or not retracting the question, if you like) was shadier, I admit, because I still didn't think about the fact that he might be asking about a possible PR even once it was apparent he was asking about his role PM. That was stupid of me. I never meant to imply that I kept the question because of the Matrix14 thing though since my motivation for writing it at first was before I saw that post (or at least before I internalized it). My motivation for keeping it had nothing to do with Matrix14, but I thought might still be beneficial in the other ways I mentioned (I expected it to be a question about his posting restriction, which it was).

I think that covers 3 and 4 at least?
It doesn’t. Did it take you this long to become aware that keeping the question was shadier than asking the question?

Also, where are we miscommunicating? I feel I’ve been pretty clear and you’ve been dodging.

If you are town, plytho, I want you to try to think as scum!SDK for a second. Your story makes perfect sense for how I'm covering my ass and making things up to justify role-fishing. What doesn't make sense to me, though, is why I would have role-fished in the first place. Can you honestly see me asking a question so blatant on purpose? Can you honestly think that I would try for such a high risk, low reward play? Just, take a minute, read my initial post asking for that info, and see if you can justify me even asking that question for your assumed reasons. I just don't see it.
You have a point, it doesn’t make sense for town or scum to do such blatant rolefishing. That’s why I’m focused on the making things up and covering your ass part. That’s where you look most suspicious.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby moody7277 » Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:48 pm UTC

Mark

Spoiler:
posts 1-4: The posts on werewolves and PM mechanics that became so controversial

The more charitable (and now more likely) explanation is the excited new player one.

post 5: doesn't know us enough to get the meta
post 6&7: response to Madge's impression of the PM stuff shows he was still interested in werewolves
post 8-10: justifies werewolf question to jimbob as a conversation starter and a small poke at Madge, lurking last game

mostly reactive at this point, but then he'd been under pressure since his first post almost

post 11: response to mpolo about being under pressure, figures both town and scum would be interested in killing third parties, and votes Madge for not being interested
post 12: the question direct about Madge from jimbob followed by a J'accuse. also concerned that town playing strategy without a werewolf might be bad.
post 13: improper jargon usage in the worst possible way
post 14: apology and correction

at this point, he was doing a bang on impression of Peaceful Whale.

post 14: various responses, including one to the controversial question by SDK that he gives an innocent answer for (which is related to some complaints in previous posts). partial reads list with LG, jimbob townie, me "working with Madge". pro-fb, w/ question on his "don't lynch me" post.
post 15: fluff
post 16:
One more thing to add. I don't like Vicarin either. It seems Town!Vic is really aggressive and obvious. At least, that's what I got from last game. He seems really toned down this game.


This seems a little ad hoc to me. Reading him straight through, I don't see where this falls in the wagon aganist Vicarin.

post 17: Decides he's okay with SDK or Vicarin lynch, but comes down on the side of voting Vicarin due to meta reasons.
post 18: response to jimbob about SDK, still more anti-Vicarin.
post 19: continuing post 18
post 20: still suspects a Madge-moody scum team
post 21: fluff
post 22: official if redundant unvote

Nothing from him D2 so far.


If you ignore the early posting weirdness, you have a bit of tunnelling on Madge, and based on plytho's wagon map getting in early enough on the Vicarin wagon that it doesn't look as bad as the read through looked. Basically, he's put his foot in it enough that I think he might be town, but I would really like to hear from him.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby plytho » Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:55 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote: FreezeBlade gets points for having the same thoughts on wam and plytho.
Are you sure you’re talking about freezeblade? Don’t let the avatars confuse you ;)

@SDK: why aren’t you voting freezeblade? I thought you had him as 100% certain scum?

@LaserGuy: enjoy Mexico!

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby Mark_Cangila » Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:57 pm UTC

Respond to ModProd. I haven't had a chance to catch up. Sorry I was gone for so long, I was on right after N1 deadline but b4 mods called end of night, and I have been busy since then.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby Mark_Cangila » Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:13 pm UTC

Also, how do you ISO on this forum? I've been using ctrl + F on each page.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby plytho » Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:22 pm UTC

Mark_Cangila wrote:Also, how do you ISO on this forum? I've been using ctrl + F on each page.

Select sort by author at the bottom of the page. Then you can read everyone separately.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby BoomFrog » Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:41 pm UTC

plytho wrote:
BoomFrog wrote: FreezeBlade gets points for having the same thoughts on wam and plytho.
Are you sure you’re talking about freezeblade? Don’t let the avatars confuse you ;)

Oh no! I guess I have little to slightly negative opinion of FreezeBlade haha.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby moody7277 » Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:54 pm UTC

mpolo

Spoiler:
post 1: confirm
post 2: setup and meta spec
post 3: fruit vendor comments and likes setup 6
post 4: reply to LG about Sungura
post 5: fluff
post 6: concern over multiple joke vote thing, confused on the Mark issue, no comment on "no lying"

So far very conventional, neutral content

post 7: open to voting fb for active lurking
post 8: feels better about fb based of his Snark-like team post. getting close to deadline, will post reads
post 9: read through on plytho with the conclusion that he's "not vote-worthy"
post 10: read through on SDK, conludes that he's scummy enough to vote for, and does so

Tried to see if mpolo's opinion walked with mine, but the lack of in progress comments made this harder

post 11: read through of Vicarin, concludes that he's slightly scummy, but prefers voting for SDK

I think I was still seeing Vicarin as mostly townie at this point, so there's a difference. Since Vicarin flipped town, mpolo being wrong about him could be a point in his favor.

post 12&13: about extension, happy with SDK vote.
post 14: game mechanics post
post 15: with increasingly positive opinion of SDK, unvotes. Vicarin subsequently most votable
post 16: read through on wam, concludes that due to pick up in content wam is middle of the road. votes Vicarin

D2
post 17: finds the silver lining in the night results, only one NK not necessarily indicative
post 18: still happy with SDK
posy 19: fruit vendor advice, no claims
post 20: summary of D2, SDK still in top two, but with some doubt, also leery about LaserGuy. looks to be out of action for awhile


Based on him being open on several players and the work he was doing analysing them, I am comfortable with calling him town right now. From this read through I don't think I could guess scummates were I to be wrong.
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:12 pm UTC

Okay, I've got some time this evening, so I'm going to update my reads. It's D2 now, so there's clearly all sorts of useful information to be had, I'm sure. My previous reads list was here and there's been quite a bit more since then. Sorry that I'm not going to roleplay freezeblade on this, but it's how I work things out in my mind.

BoomFrog (previously insufficient data on threetwoone, slightly weird desire to wagon freezeblade):
Spoiler:
Asks for summary of action so far. Thinks fruit receiver claim would be useful to know size of scum team. Thinks vendor should wait until end game to claim. If SDK is scum, wam is town. Points out plytho not fully reading my posts. Hasn't read D1 yet. Tone suggests wam and plytho almost certainly town. Likes them exploring other options. Me and freezeblade likely town (neutral tone on SDK from me expected). Freezeblade gets points for thoughts on wam and plytho. Disagrees with my conclusion re. Madge and freezeblade for scum!SDK case - thinks not voting worse strategy for scum unless not caring about the lynch. Freezeblade not voting looks very bad for town!SDK case. Mark looks like newbie scum in scum!SDK case, from vote timing. Top 4 to keep eye on are SDK, Mark, mpolo, and LaserGuy. Thinks SDK has OMGUS goggles on, and thinks SDK is telling truth re. rolefishing. Wants to hear reasons for SDK wanting freezeblade and wam lynches.
@BoomFrog - it seems to me that your current reads are making the assumption that SDK is scum. Am I wrong? If so, why do you have plytho, wam, and freezeblade as town, and Mark and LaserGuy as scum? Also, why is mpolo on your list of people to keep an eye on?

I think my conclusion on BoomFrog is going to depend on his answers to these questions. Assuming my understanding is correct and his reads and focus are entirely based on a scum!SDK assumption, I'm not particularly happy there, since I don't think there's enough evidence to support this assumption, especially based on BoomFrog's claim to have not yet read D1.


freezeblade (previously suspicious):
Spoiler:
Votes me for "calling him out" on not posting. Accepts he mis-read my intentions. Not much to comment on as it is D1. Not really surprised by SDK scum read on him. Doesn't want to play like SDK. Doesn't know how he feels about the SDK wagon, and doesn't fully understand it. Can't read SDK D1 particularly. D2 - nothing to claim. I was still his scummiest read on D1 (gut read).
Freezeblade's not really done anything to dispel my early concerns. I'm doing my best to avoid OMGUS here, since he seems to randomly have a gut bad read on me. Yes, it's freezeblade, and he is known for not putting in much effort D1, but not committing to even an opinion on the SDK wagon, and not mentioning the other wagon of Vicarin at all seems like a bit of a cop out. Further, he's only posted once D2, with nothing other than explaining his vote, after being prodded on it. Seems scummy to me.

LaserGuy (previously slight town lean):
Spoiler:
Does not like lack of agreement with 7 hours to go. Presents the case for town!SDK just making mistakes, because scum would have been too self-conscious about role-fishing. Inconsistency/contradictory points by SDK look worse. Doesn't like SDK not refuting the case, and that he is pushing it as scum-motivated. Wants every player to comment on the wagon by day end. Doesn't see moody's case on Mark. Asks Sabrar to talk about wam, and Madge about Vicarin. Likes mpolo and plytho's stuff. Votes Vicarin as interim measure, due to noting comments about Vicarin being obvscum, but unvotes soon after. Doesn't like Madge, freezeblade and moody for not commenting on the lynch. Voted Vicarin because he felt he needed to shove a wagon as most weren't going anywhere. Prods me and moody with questions. Likes plytho progression on SDK, sounding townie, but dislikes SDK's read on plytho. Doesn't understand Vicarin PR breadcrumb fishing. Thinks this is Zen roleplaying. Doesn't like Vic's following posts, and thinks he should claim. moody and wam votes opportunistic. SDK posts look okay. Has naughty group of Vicarin, SDK, wam, moody, freezeblade. Votes Vicarin to break tie. D2 - thinks fruit receiver should claim. Doesn't think PRs should claim unless they have results to share.
LaserGuy seems to be one of the few (only?) other players, aside from me, who is willing to consider the town!SDK side of the argument, even if he doesn't really trust SDK. To me, this is good. He's also prodding lots of people, and making sure that he has some clear opinions on people (although his reasoning is somewhat lacking in many areas). His suspicions of Vicarin seem well-founded, and align somewhat with my own. Needs more recent content (only one almost content-less post D2), but still a town lean currently.

Madge (previously 3rd towniest):
Spoiler:
Big gap since last post before my reads list. Thinks Mark is flailing about like newbie scum, but less convinced later. Agrees with plytho re. SDK's masking of his question, but feels fine with SDK's defence. Calls LaserGuy scum (joke?). Reads may be for role-playing. SDK wagon seems odd, re. gaining such fast traction. Mark is improving. Agrees with case on Vicarin, but accepts his explanation somewhat. Thinks SDK is town. Vicarin top town read was vague hunch. Explains not liking LaserGuy (possibly role play as bessie here?). D2 - Should assume one set of bad guys for now. Gut says Mark is playing like newbie town, but uncertain. Likes plytho case on SDK, agrees logical, but gut says he's townie based on good posts, but second-guessing gut. Finds Mark scummier, but willing to trust plytho, and votes SDK. Not convinced on fruit recipient claiming, thinks they should only claim to confirm a fruit vendor claim. Discusses related strategy, and agrees with me when Vendor should claim. Explains to Mark when he should claim a result. Asks about fruit vendor being able to give specific fruit.
I'm genuinely confused by Madge's stance on SDK - she said towards the end of D1 that she thinks he is town, but has decided to trust plytho's case instead and is currently voting for SDK. Aside from him and Mark (and possibly LaserGuy, who I think she called scum because she's role-playing bessie calling Madge scum, but I'm not sure), I have no clue where she stands on the vast majority of players. Even an updated gut feeling list is better than nothing at this point. My gut still finds her slightly townie despite this, but she's definitely sliding down.

Mark (previously slightly scummy, and actually scummiest on my list):
Spoiler:
Posts promised big post. Answers several questions. Says he finds SDK comment to be role-fishy. Gives opinions as prodded on LG (slightly townie, some useful contributions), me (lean town, in depth reads list), moody (leaning scummy, thinks working with Madge), mpolo (neutral, minimal content). Asks freezeblade to explain his "lynching me will do no good for town" comment. Thinks it might be a gambit. Doesn't like Vicarin, as town!Vic is more aggressive. Split on voting SDK (for role-fishing) and Vic (non-town meta). SDK actions could have been a slip, Vic, could have been quiet, but ends up voting Vic. Thinks scum!Vic would role fish more. Thinks Moody and Madge working together. D2 - responds to mod-prod.
The thing that immediately came to my mind when reading through Mark's more recent content is that a lot of it is just recycled content from other players (SDK role-fishing, Vicarin non-town meta style) and he provided minimal other content, apart from a limited set of opinions on players after being specifically asked for them. In particular, this reminds of Peaceful Whale's first full game (I think it was that one) where scum!PW did basically that. He's also been quite quiet, which is hard to evaluate as a new player, but could easily be a case of not knowing what to say (which could come from either side I guess). Probably scum, in my opinion, though there is a chance of confused newbie.

moody (previously somewhat townie, but sliding):
Spoiler:
Needs to delve into SDK wagon reasoning. Thought Mark might be a werewolf, due to over-interest. Agrees with me re. Vicarin looking for PRs being bad. SDK dropped in quality but picked back up and now slightly townie. Unvotes Mark, explaining later that he accepts nobody was convinced about SK presence. Leaves space for finding SDK scummy. Lynching SDK very educational, and votes him, after apparently being persuaded by others. Thinks likely scum somewhere in plytho, SDK, and Sabrar. D2 - Agrees with wam re. confirmed town more useful later on. No longer believes Mark to be a werewolf. Thinks vote analysis would have been useful from SDK lynch. Reads through Mark, thinks him putting foot in it makes him town, but wants more.
I'm still a little confused why moody wanted to lynch SDK, whom he himself said he thought was town not long prior to deciding to go with it. I don't like this post where it feels like he's deliberately leaving himself the option to switch to SDK, despite his town read, should he need to (and indeed, I think this is part of the basis for his later vote). That being said, I'm not sure there's much gain here for scum!moody assuming town!SDK, and almost none for scum!moody assuming scum!SDK, so I think I have to leave it as at worst a null tell, and possibly even a town tell. I also don't particularly like how he never really looked at the Vicarin wagon. I'm feeling a little suspicious of moody now for feeling a little wishy-washy, and not looking at enough players, although judging by the ninjas, this might be improving somewhat as I write this wall.

mpolo (previously insufficient data, leaning towards scum for lurking):
Spoiler:
Somewhat belatedly, but before the original deadline, reads through plytho (comfortable with him), SDK (somewhat scummy, but could be defensible) and votes him for the scumminess, Vicarin (little scummy but not as much as SDK). After deadline, unvotes SDK, who has improved. Defends Vicarin a bit, but combines this with other weirdness making him look bad, moving him to top of lynchables. Reads wam (somewhat comfortable) and votes Vicarin. D2 - no info from night re. two teams. Needs to look back at SDK. Doesn't think fruit vendor should claim until later. Net utility on side of town for receiver to claim. Still torn on SDK, understands plytho's point, but he's putting in a lot of effort. Thinks SDK is still in his top two. Gut feeling on LaserGuy, but unsure why. Not sure what vote count is.
I don't really have any issues with mpolo currently. He might look bad if SDK turns up to be scum, but I'd have to go back and look at the timing of his vote on SDK the first time around to be sure. I'm happy with his Vicarin vote, since I found Vicarin scummy too. Leaning town.

It's bed time, and I still have plytho, wam and SDK to do. I will probably not have time to do them tomorrow, but will do Friday evening. My gut has plytho and SDK as town, and I'm unsure on wam still (I previously had him as fairly scummy, but I feel like his content has improved somewhat. Here's a provisional ordered list based on those I've read so far:

Town
*plytho
mpolo
LaserGuy
*SDK
Madge
*wam
BoomFrog
moody
freezeblade
Mark
Scum

*I don't really have a good feel for these three, especially SDK and wam.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby SDK » Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:24 pm UTC

plytho wrote:
SDK wrote:
plytho wrote:The third mistake, which I'm really having trouble as seeing as anything but deliberate is not acknowledging we're talking about a role-pm here.
The fourth mistake is using your initial motivation for asking the question instead of the motivation for keeping the question. Why, from a townie perspective would you do this? You made a conscious decision to keep the question. That's obviously what we want to know about.

Ah, I think I see where we're miscommunicating now. So I wrote that question to Mark with the intention of getting him to clarify so Madge could focus elsewhere (if he was town) or so he could out himself (if he was a werewolf). I gave a few examples of what responses I expected I might get (a question about Matrix14, for example). That was my motivation for asking the question.

My motivation for keeping the question (or not retracting the question, if you like) was shadier, I admit, because I still didn't think about the fact that he might be asking about a possible PR even once it was apparent he was asking about his role PM. That was stupid of me. I never meant to imply that I kept the question because of the Matrix14 thing though since my motivation for writing it at first was before I saw that post (or at least before I internalized it). My motivation for keeping it had nothing to do with Matrix14, but I thought might still be beneficial in the other ways I mentioned (I expected it to be a question about his posting restriction, which it was).

I think that covers 3 and 4 at least?
It doesn’t. Did it take you this long to become aware that keeping the question was shadier than asking the question?

Also, where are we miscommunicating? I feel I’ve been pretty clear and you’ve been dodging.

Do you even know what you're saying anymore? You keep grilling me for bringing up Matrix14 as justification for keeping the question despite the fact that AH HA! MATRIX14 ISN'T IN THE ROLE PM - that's the miscommunication. I brought up Matrix14 (and other points) for why I asked the question. The other points stand whether or not it's a role PM thing.

To address 3 and 4 directly:
3) We are talking about a role PM.
4) My initial motivation was exactly the same as the keeping-the-question motivation, minus Matrix14.

Simple!

plytho wrote:
If you are town, plytho, I want you to try to think as scum!SDK for a second. Your story makes perfect sense for how I'm covering my ass and making things up to justify role-fishing. What doesn't make sense to me, though, is why I would have role-fished in the first place. Can you honestly see me asking a question so blatant on purpose? Can you honestly think that I would try for such a high risk, low reward play? Just, take a minute, read my initial post asking for that info, and see if you can justify me even asking that question for your assumed reasons. I just don't see it.
You have a point, it doesn’t make sense for town or scum to do such blatant rolefishing. That’s why I’m focused on the making things up and covering your ass part. That’s where you look most suspicious.

God damn, you are being such an idiot. I hope that in future games you won't take minor memory slips so seriously.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby SDK » Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:27 pm UTC

plytho wrote:@SDK: why aren’t you voting freezeblade? I thought you had him as 100% certain scum?

Thought about it. Don't feel like trying to lead today.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby SDK » Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:30 pm UTC

Kind of hilarious that I'm accidentally roleplaying now. See you tomorrow, everyone.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby SDK » Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:31 pm UTC

Well, minus the insults, I guess. Sorry, plytho.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby Madge » Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:12 pm UTC

My top two targets are SDK (trusting plytho) and Mark_Canglia (trusting my tunnel).

I want to apologise in advance but unless I get more time, I won’t be able to do meta reads. I was hoping to have time to do them but I really don’t think I will. I might try to do some overNight when I am not trying to keep my head above water, post-wise.

Anyway, time for some patented-Madge FUN:

I got a fruit last night. If we need to triple confirm you as the vendor with fruit type, I can do that. The vendor, if they didn’t deliberately choose the fruit, is able to ask the mods what type of fruit I received and the mods will be able to confirm it. Vendor, please don’t confirm me unless people don’t believe this claim, I guess.

I still don’t think claiming fruit is the right thing to do but everyone else seems to want to, so here we go. I also think me claiming the fruit will mean we will no longer be distracted by whether the fruit recipient can claim or not. I’m sure the vendor has read / participated in the discussion enough to make their own decision.

@jimbob: plytho’s case was convincing to me. My finding SDK townie was based on his content, but scum!SDK can produce townie content, and is very motivated to do so.

I will have limited posting today and tomorrow.

Will try and update woof-grr list tonight.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby bessie » Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:49 am UTC

BoomFrog: All right. I think I understand. So I can vote for anyone except bessie or Diemo?
Diemo: [hands water bottle to wam] Correct, you can’t vote for the mod in this game.
Madge: That’s a stupid rule. bessie is the scummiest one here.
bessie: So’s your face.
Madge: [taunts bessie] You off your meds?
bessie: Bite me.
moody7277: Me-ow.
bessie and Madge: [together] Shut up moody!
mpolo: All right, that’s enough. Got it BoomFrog? Talk, vote, talk, vote.
plytho: And we just keep talking and counting the votes until we decide we’re sick of it and the vote leader gets thrown out of the game.
BoomFrog: [flicks lighter] How often do we count the votes?
Diemo: Whenever we feel like it. Like now.


Official Votals:

SDK (3) : wam, plytho, Madge

Not Voting (8) : BoomFrog, freezeblade, jimbobmacdoodle, LaserGuy, Mark_Cangila, moody7277, mpolo, SDK

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to hammer.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby LaserGuy » Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:10 am UTC

Hi guys! So happy to be postng to you from Mexico! Food, weather, everything is great. I will be posting from my phone so I'm not even going to attempt to quote anyone and just post whatever and I'm sure you'll figure it out. Good to see people have been posting but ow those walls make my head hurt and maybe I should just to back to the tequila bar...

Okay, let's try and see...

So Madge is claiming a fruit? I hope it's a delicious tropical one. So I guess that means we know we're in one of two setups. Not going to look that up since everyone I'm sure already has. Pretty sure that means no wolves? So thats something.

I guess some people (plytho? Jimbob?) don't care for my vote on Vic. I mean okay, I read Vic wrong, BUT it's not like I hadn't been reading him as scum since page 2 AND said I would vote to prevent a tie. Which is what I did. So okay, if you want to read me as scum for that, go ahead. Me and my tequila will be over here being very sad about that.

Oh, if there's no wolves, we need to go back and reread D1 to see who was assuming the game was non-wolf and who didn't have a clue, right? Not going to do it, but maybe someone else should? Like Mark is so obviously never going to be mafia here. I think maybe moody and Madge were wolf hunting too? So probably not mafia I think.

Plytho vs SDK makes my head hurt, but my gut is TvT. Reminds me of plytho/Bessie. Too much nitpickery and misunderstanding. And Too. Many. Words.

Madge has just dropped her tunnel on both me and Mark for no real reason. I am disappointed by this. Is my content not scummy enough? Would it help if I put you on the naughty list? I feel like I'm not living up to my potential here.

Is mpolo's content roleplaying Sungara and I have just missed it because he chose someone I don't know (which I'm STILL unhappy about, I'll have you know). His posts are so far out of my meta on him I have no idea.

Should I be concerned that I feel more Madge when I drink? Should Madge?

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby wam » Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:23 am UTC

Ok so we have a fruit vendor. I have a plan that would allow the fruit vendor to claim through their fruit to their towniest reads is that worth pursuing?

@laser just do what I do on a phone and end up quadruple posting.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby wam » Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:26 am UTC

Mark_Cangila wrote:Respond to ModProd. I haven't had a chance to catch up. Sorry I was gone for so long, I was on right after N1 deadline but b4 mods called end of night, and I have been busy since then.


And this is a lie. Mods started day 2, 20 minutes before the deadline.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby wam » Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:28 am UTC

Ebwop

Not sure if that lie is alignment indicative or not.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby wam » Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:33 am UTC

request mod prod on freezeblade

Been 40 odd hours since he posted
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby wam » Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:38 am UTC

Also i am about 75% confident we are in setup 10. Will explain later unless anyone else figures the logic out first
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:11 am UTC

LaserGuy wrote:I guess some people (plytho? Jimbob?) don't care for my vote on Vic. I mean okay, I read Vic wrong, BUT it's not like I hadn't been reading him as scum since page 2 AND said I would vote to prevent a tie. Which is what I did. So okay, if you want to read me as scum for that, go ahead. Me and my tequila will be over here being very sad about that.
Huh? What makes you think I don't like your Vicarin vote. That's the opposite of true. Here's what I said in my recent read:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:His suspicions of Vicarin seem well-founded, and align somewhat with my own.
The only issue I have is if SDK is scum, your vote doesn't look so great, due to it breaking the tie in favour of town, but it's not really a big deal, especially because we don't know SDK is scum (indeed I don't believe him to be currently).

wam wrote:Not sure if that lie is alignment indicative or not.
I doubt it is, since I don't think it is a lie, but I want Mark's response before I explain my reasoning.
wam wrote:Also i am about 75% confident we are in setup 10. Will explain later unless anyone else figures the logic out first
I have no idea how you got this unless you are a PR other than the fruit vendor, which I assume you are not claiming.
wam wrote:Ok so we have a fruit vendor. I have a plan that would allow the fruit vendor to claim through their fruit to their towniest reads is that worth pursuing?

@laser just do what I do on a phone and end up quadruple posting.
I'm curious to know what that plan is, but I have one too that I think is pretty safe: depending on who they target, the vendor gives out a specific fruit:
BoomFrog - blueberry
Freezeblade - orange
Me - Flamboyant potato (aka pineapple - sorry UK Games Expo in joke)
LaserGuy - apple
Madge - pear
Mark - peach
Moody - banana
Mpolo - melon
Plytho - blackberry
SDK - strawberry
Wam - tangerine

If the vendor doesn't want to identify themselves, or wants to use the fruit for a more general claiming strategy as was suggested earlier, they should use a different fruit.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby plytho » Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:14 am UTC

I disagree with LaserGuy re: wolf hunters. If scum know there aren't any werewolves that's an ideal area for them to provide content.

LaserGuy wrote:Plytho vs SDK makes my head hurt, but my gut is TvT. Reminds me of plytho/Bessie. Too much nitpickery and misunderstanding. And Too. Many. Words.
This feels like you're dodging my questions. Do you understand/agree with my case?

wam wrote:
Mark_Cangila wrote:Respond to ModProd. I haven't had a chance to catch up. Sorry I was gone for so long, I was on right after N1 deadline but b4 mods called end of night, and I have been busy since then.


And this is a lie. Mods started day 2, 20 minutes before the deadline.
Didn't it start 40 minutes after deadline?

SDK wrote:To address 3 and 4 directly:
3) We are talking about a role PM.
4) My initial motivation was exactly the same as the keeping-the-question motivation, minus Matrix14.

Simple!
That's not addressing 3 and 4 directly. 3 is "why did it take you so long to acknowledge we were talking about a role-pm?" and 4 is "why did you use the explanation for asking the question instead of keeping the question when Sabrar asked you why you didn't see the fish?"

It feels like you're either missing the essence of my issue with you or deliberately trying to play it down so it looks like I'm nitpicking. I feel I've been making myself pretty clear, which is why the latter feels more plausible.

SDK wrote:I hope that in future games you won't take minor memory slips so seriously.

Honestly, I wouldn't count on it. Also, there's more to my case than the memory slip. In fact I haven't talked about that particular bit in a while.

SDK wrote:Well, minus the insults, I guess. Sorry, plytho.

Apology accepted.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:19 am UTC

Oh yeah forgot to ask: Madge, you previously seemed to think Mark was probably a wolf, IIRC. Now that you know he's not, do you have an updated reason for trusting your tunnel?
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby plytho » Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:33 am UTC

The issue I have with jimbob's and (presumably) wam's fruit vendor limited claiming strategy is that it risks scum finding out who the fruit vendor is before town and being able to take them out safely. I think that outweighs the benefit for select townies to have a conftown.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Oh yeah forgot to ask: Madge, you previously seemed to think Mark was probably a wolf, IIRC. Now that you know he's not, do you have an updated reason for trusting your tunnel?
Good point!
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:37 am UTC

plytho wrote:The issue I have with jimbob's and (presumably) wam's fruit vendor limited claiming strategy is that it risks scum finding out who the fruit vendor is before town and being able to take them out safely. I think that outweighs the benefit for select townies to have a conftown.
Agreed, I think. I was just outlining the option. I guess that the vendor might want to confirm themselves to another confirmed (or near confirmed) townie though, so they now have the option, I suppose?
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby plytho » Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:47 am UTC

wam wrote:Also i am about 75% confident we are in setup 10. Will explain later unless anyone else figures the logic out first
You think there's a 50% chance mafia would successfully roleblock the fruit vendor in (5)?
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby wam » Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:48 am UTC

@jimbob

My plan was the same but the fruit was different!
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby wam » Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:56 am UTC

plytho wrote:
wam wrote:Also i am about 75% confident we are in setup 10. Will explain later unless anyone else figures the logic out first
You think there's a 50% chance mafia would successfully roleblock the fruit vendor in (5)?


Nope I think that the cop would have probably (80% ) copped SDK last night given the pressure on him today I think the cop would have claimed by now with a town result. Or if it was mafia result the cop would have claimed that.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:33 am UTC

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought I'd mention it, since this has come up a couple of times now, but don't cops usually withhold town results until they need to claim for their own good/for a mass claim/MYLO/LYLO?

Also, in this case, assuming that the cop successfully copped SDK and got a town (or scum) result, they might decide to wait a while to see how the wagon forms, and who jumps on, before confirming their result. Or they may decide to withhold the claim, so that they aren't instantly tonight's night kill target (scum have a ninja in this setup, so can ignore the risk of being seen killing him, IIRC).

Summary, I'd rather lose VT!SDK than cop!somebody else - until M/LYLO, both are essentially as confirmed as each other, and in the best case, SDK and the cop both survive allowing for two confirmed townies later on. So, FoS on wam and whoever else it was that suggested that the cop should claim if they got a town result. It's a terrible idea. I even think it's a somewhat bad idea at this point for the cop to claim a scum result on SDK (scum result on somebody else is good, and should be claimed at some point today), as there is a reasonable chance that SDK will get lynched without that claim. If he doesn't look like he's going to be later in the day, then sure, consider claiming then.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby wam » Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:37 am UTC

I didn't say they should claim I said I think they would have. I actually agree with you on most of that.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby plytho » Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:38 am UTC

wam wrote:I didn't say they should claim I said I think they would have. I actually agree with you on most of that.

This sounds contradictory.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby wam » Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:44 am UTC

plytho wrote:
wam wrote:I didn't say they should claim I said I think they would have. I actually agree with you on most of that.

This sounds contradictory.


Breaking it down. Poijt 1. I thought that the cop would have claimed by now. Point 2 claiming now is not the most optimum play.

I can see the contradiction but only if you think people play right. Maybe I'm wrong. I did only say 75%
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby plytho » Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:51 am UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought I'd mention it, since this has come up a couple of times now, but don't cops usually withhold town results until they need to claim for their own good/for a mass claim/MYLO/LYLO?
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:So, FoS on wam and whoever else it was that suggested that the cop should claim if they got a town result.
I'm pretty sure nobody has been suggesting cops should claim town results. I don't see where you're getting that from?

wam wrote:I can see the contradiction but only if you think people play right.
Yeah, that's my baseline assumption.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby wam » Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:08 am UTC

Yeah I am probably wrong!
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:24 am UTC

plytho wrote:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought I'd mention it, since this has come up a couple of times now, but don't cops usually withhold town results until they need to claim for their own good/for a mass claim/MYLO/LYLO?
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:So, FoS on wam and whoever else it was that suggested that the cop should claim if they got a town result.
I'm pretty sure nobody has been suggesting cops should claim town results. I don't see where you're getting that from?
You're right, at least regarding wam. I misinterpreted his statement as being that a cop should claim a town result. I think there was another person who did too, but I couldn't find them in a quick search. Will try to locate what I was thinking of later.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:27 am UTC

Found it:
Madge wrote:@Mark: basically, only claim a result if you can get us to vote off scum or stop us from voting off town. Note that this applies if you’re a doctor too because people you protect on nights who don’t end up dead were probably town (definitely town if we only have one scum team, barring some vanishingly rare shenanigans).
The latter half of the first sentence is the key part - Madge is essentially telling Mark to claim a result to prevent us voting off town, which is not really a good idea if Mark is, say, a cop and got a town result, at least in the current situation.
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