Meta Mafia II: Day 5

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Madge
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby Madge » Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:22 am UTC

So, I’ve decided I’m going to stop roleplaying / keep roleplaying to a minimum, well, at least for this post. Peoples’ appreciation for my roleplaying gave me LIFE (ATTENTION! :D), but I’m guessing you’d all rather I play if you’ve got to choose between the two.

Not sure why jimbob is proposing the vendor target people with specific fruit. Like, they give me a pear, and that just proves… they read jimbob’s post? Are we putting so little faith in one another we have to claim that we read each others’ posts?

Better for the fruit vendor, if they want to claim their identity to their town read, to use a list to claim their own identity.

Also I breadcrumbed the fruit I received in case the vendor wants to use that to verify later on.

Here’s some fruits for the fruit vendor to use if they want to claim their identity:

“I am a fruit vendor, I am giving you fruit, and I specifically don’t want to participate in this stupid fruit code and yes I know this is a contradiction but seriously guys it’s just fruit STOP READING INTO IT”: cantaloupe

“I, the fruit vendor, am revealing to you that I am…”
BoomFrog - honeydew
Freezeblade - starfruit
Jimbob - grapefruit
LaserGuy - grape
Madge - dragonfruit
Mark - raspberry
Moody - clementine
Mpolo - mandarin
Plytho - avocado
SDK - watermelon
Wam - lemon

“I, the fruit vendor, am using the fruits in jimbob’s post to… prove I read jimbob’s post or something”
BoomFrog - blueberry
Freezeblade - orange
Jimbob - pineapple
LaserGuy - apple
Madge - pear
Mark - peach
Moody - banana
Mpolo - melon
Plytho - blackberry
SDK - strawberry
Wam - tangerine

Is it valuable to put fruit tables up for town and scum reads? I don’t know and I don’t care to put up more fruit tables.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Oh yeah forgot to ask: Madge, you previously seemed to think Mark was probably a wolf, IIRC. Now that you know he's not, do you have an updated reason for trusting your tunnel?


Nope, consider me as having reached the light at the end of the tunnel.

RE PR claiming: that’s when I’d claim as cop, personally, because I’d be worried of being killed in the night without getting to save a townie.

@bessie Laserguy hates orange Oh me yarm i am dying
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:27 am UTC

@Madge, possibly I made a mistake in my post, or possibly you misread it, but my intention was that the fruit given would indicate who sent, not who received the fruit.
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Madge
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby Madge » Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:29 am UTC

Oh me yarm.

ok, fruit vendor, if you want to claim via fruit, use the list associated with whether you like jimbob or me more :lol:

(i know the answer will be ME because you gave me the first fruit <3)
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby wam » Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:36 am UTC

Madge nothing in your post indicated who you would vote for. Given we are rapidly approachig deadline please give us a read?
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby wam » Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:45 am UTC

Madge wrote:Oh me yarm.

ok, fruit vendor, if you want to claim via fruit, use the list associated with whether you like jimbob or me more :lol:

(i know the answer will be ME because you gave me the first fruit <3)


Given we have 2 lists may I suggest we use jimbob as it was first. Sorry Madge....
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby moody7277 » Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:15 pm UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Why are you only just committing to this now? What's changed? If nothing, why did you not vote earlier?


Well, to the best of my recollection, SDK was halfway to lynch within a day of D2 starting (checked the timestamps, D2 start 6:42pm Mon, third vote on SDK was 8:50am Tue, so 14 hours). I figured that the REO Speedwagon didn't need my help at that point, plus the usual "don't want to let scum short change us on discussion" yada yada. Plus most of yesterday I spent in a garage office while they replaced my car's water pump.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby plytho » Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:46 pm UTC

I noticed that freezeblade was around shortly before he was prodded. I wonder why he didn't explain his absence then.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:
BoomFrog wrote:I guess I meant. Please just don't talk about the Rolefishing inquiry incident anymore. Please don't rebut SDK's above post haha.
Definitely this.
Noted :oops:

wam wrote:Madge nothing in your post indicated who you would vote for. Given we are rapidly approachig deadline please give us a read?
Madge is voting SDK.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby wam » Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:02 pm UTC

:oops:
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby plytho » Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:36 pm UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Too many players are being too quiet for my liking. That's usually not good for town.
Very true.

I'd especially like to see more content from Mark. He has 7 posts D2 and they are extremely light on content. In fact I feel the only content we have from mark is:
Mark_Cangila wrote:Vote: SDK


Mark, please try to provide more thoughts and explain them.

Given my rising suspicion of LaserGuy (2 posts) I'd like to see more from him as well but he should enjoy his holiday first, I'm fine grilling him D3.

moody (7) and mpolo (6) also have RL reasons for reduced content. Looks like D3 is going to be a lot busier.

freezeblade (1) has disappeared entirely and I don't really expect him back.


Boomfrog, jimbobmacdoodle, Madge, SDK and wam have been talkative.

Neat side-note: selecting the posts from the last 7 days has only D2 posts now, making D2 isos quite comfortable. (I'll do one tomorrow probably, but I'm not great at weekend promises :wink: )
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby plytho » Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:58 pm UTC

plytho wrote:moody (7) and mpolo (6) also have RL reasons for reduced content.

I do believe those reasons should be over this weekend so I do still expect proper content from both before deadline.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby SDK » Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:10 pm UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:SDK - are you going to claim?

I suppose that's the proper thing to do. I am vanilla.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby BoomFrog » Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:10 pm UTC

SDK wrote:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:SDK - are you going to claim?

I suppose that's the proper thing to do. I am vanilla.

Why did you not claim before the first D1 deadline?
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby BoomFrog » Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:28 pm UTC

wam wrote:@boom I can see two issues in your plan.

1. We know were in 10-3. Based on that how would an agreeive scum plan benefit them day 2? As there are still at least 2 lynches left. D1 10-3 D2 8-3 D3 6-3 D4 4-3.

2. Wagon too easy. It's not been easy for the level of items plytho has caught most people would have been lynched d1. I agree SDK can play that as both alignments.

You have also switched your view on me 180 in a page or two.

Could boom be SDKs partner....
1) Town! SDK lynch doesn't immediately lead to scum!wam lynch so it's a good plan for scum!you. Even if it did, two mislynches for one successful lynch leaves your team in a good place.

2) If SDK is scum his mates should have bumped someone else to 2 or 3 votes when mpolo put the third vote on SDK. They didn't, and that raises some doubt in me.

3) I liked your position in vote timing in the D2 summery, but didn't like your D1 reasons for voting. So reading D1 changed my opinion somewhat. Still like plytho and JimBob a lot.

4) Knew that would happen haha.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby SDK » Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:44 pm UTC

Super quick because I don't have time to do proper tear downs today...

wam's Day 1 ain't too bad. Feels okay for the most part, reacts a bit defensively to Sabrar's list, asks for an extension (though that was before my wagon started), decent reads list. Lots of jokes. Natural progression between myself and Vicarin votes. Both feels and acts townie as far as I can tell.

The start of wam's Day 2 bugged me, but seeing where he's coming from after Day 1, it makes a lot more sense. wam's here, he's involved, he's hitting a lot of people in a lot of ways. wam is town.
(Glad I did that reread.)


moody is too hard to read, so I'm going to skip him for now...


mpolo is town. He's gotta be. Not picking up any scum vibes here, and I think the work he's been doing is totally legit, coming from the right place.

(By the way, hope your operation went well, mpolo!)




So I'm reading a lot of people as pretty strongly town. Usually when that happens, it means there are scum among the lurkers (Mark gets bumped up the list as a result). Boomfrog's content all looks great so far (I like his approach to me, for example), and I had suspicions that threetwoone might be town anyway. Should confirm since he's good at playing as scum (at least... I think he is? Not sure I've ever played against him).


TOWN
jimbobmacdoodle (if he's scum, he's playing really really well - unconfirmed at this moment, however)
mpolo
wam
Madge
plytho

Boomfrog (confirmation read through will likely put Boomfrog in the town pile)
LaserGuy (probably town too, but hard to tell for sure)
Mark_Cangila (previously had a town read on him, but I can't remember why - must check that)

moody7277 (need to read through, but I can't read moody anyway)
Freezeblade
SCUM

More work to be done, things might shift around a bit.


I'll put this back on now. Certainly not going to get a better lead today.

Vote freezeblade
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby SDK » Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:45 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote:
SDK wrote:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:SDK - are you going to claim?

I suppose that's the proper thing to do. I am vanilla.

Why did you not claim before the first D1 deadline?

Not really much point claiming when you're vanilla. I would have if asked, but I didn't even consider it.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby freezeblade » Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:38 pm UTC

Hi Folks,

I have requested a replacement from the mod. Work dropped a ton of work on my desk earlier this week, and my other live jobs are busy being on fire in the shop. So I'm unable to give this game proper attention, as my posts would be nothing but gut reactions and surface-level impressions, which isn't helpful for town at all.

I'm sorry again folks, I was really enjoying this game and role-playing Snark.

If the mod is unable to find a replacement, then I will continue on, and do the best that I can make time for, but I don't know how much that would be, nor how helpful I could be in these cases.

-Freezeblade as Snark
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby mpolo » Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:08 pm UTC

So, the operation went fine. They're constantly asking to "rate my pain", and I am hard-pressed to come up with more than 2 out of 10, cause there isn't much pain at all. I read through the thread, but am on a fairly clunky laptop here. Real analysis may need to wait until Sunday.

I am nearly to the point of flipping on SDK again.
1) His improved content.
2) Tone of the last couple of posts, where he is just frustrated with the wagon.
3) Fear that I am being pushed into seeing something here by wam and/or plytho.

So, I guess those are the people I need to reread: SDK, wam, plytho.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby LaserGuy » Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:35 pm UTC

Hi guys! I'm really sorry about lurking D2! I know my content today has been awful. If you guys really want me to replace out or something I totally understand, but it's only for a couple more days so I'd really rather struggle through and I'll be better D3 if I survive!

Madge didn't even acknowledge me poking at her for dropping her tunnel on me, so she's on the naughty list for real. And nobody answered my question about mpolo either? Okay then. I'll put somebody who said they knew Sungara on the naughty list when I get around to looking up who said that.

Plytho, I read your case in detail when back around page 8 or whenever it was. I haven't followed a lot of the recent stuff from you and SDK about this all that closely because have you seen those walls? And I stand by what I said before, which is: I think it's TvT because of the way that the argument has gone down. The specifics don't actually matter that much to me beyond that, though I've also already said I no longer trust role fishing as a reliable scum tell and would probably put it at null or maybe a bit scummy at most.

Not sure if anyone mentioned this or not, but I'm 90% certain that the thing Sabrar didn't want to talk about D1 from NNY was the discussion about whether scum would claim vanilla or PR in this sort of setup. I don't think it's particularly important, but some people were curious, so there it is.

Thanks BoomFrog! He is a cutie! My older son is having a bit of a harder time with the travel, and younger is like: beach? Best day ever! Golf cart? Best day ever! Bird flew past? Best day ever! Person in a blue hat? Best day ever! Speaking of which, need to run. Nap time almost over.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby wam » Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:38 pm UTC

Yeah re read of day 2 will be tomorrow. Sorry guys.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby BoomFrog » Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:37 pm UTC

My recollection of Sungara is that she literally kept a notebook of meta tells for each player, and she never lied and refused to answer questions that would paint her into a corner as scum even if she wasn't scum. I don't recall her posting style besides that.

FreezeBlade seems like he won't be modkilled, and if he is replaced it's unlikely we will get a good read on the replacement as they will have two days of catching up to do. If I was confident he was town we could let it slid, but in this case where he is likely to be scum, he needs to be lynched, and earlier is better.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby Mark_Cangila » Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:38 pm UTC

Anyone know a way to show more posts per page? Trying to get as little pages as possible so I can keep it open while on plane.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby freezeblade » Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:01 pm UTC

If I'm not set to be replaced by EOD, and I'm leading in the votes as a result, I will happily full-claim to help out, as mentioned before, lynching me would be bad for town.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby plytho » Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:19 pm UTC

freezeblade wrote:I have requested a replacement from the mod.
That's too bad.
mpolo wrote:So, the operation went fine
That's great!
LaserGuy wrote:If you guys really want me to replace out or something I totally understand, but it's only for a couple more days so I'd really rather struggle through and I'll be better D3 if I survive!
As I said, I happy to grill you D3, enjoy your holiday!

LaserGuy wrote:Madge didn't even acknowledge me poking at her for dropping her tunnel on me, so she's on the naughty list for real.
At least one townie disagrees with you.

freezeblade wrote:If I'm not set to be replaced by EOD, and I'm leading in the votes as a result, I will happily full-claim to help out, as mentioned before, lynching me would be bad for town.
Hmm, I think I'd like freezeblade to stay alive.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby plytho » Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:30 pm UTC

This post from SDK pinged me earlier as a hint for his scumbuddies to NK freezeblade.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby moody7277 » Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:31 pm UTC

LaserGuy

Spoiler:
post 1: excited confirm
post 2: Very Madge post about who picked whom for meta, including disliking some of our more obscure, less recent picks, and also answer to Vicarin's numbers question

LaserGuy's lucky I didn't pick someone like Bulvox or crucialityfactor

post 3: surprise at how seriously we took the "naughty list" for obscure players. likes Madge's version of bessie
post 4: some fruit vendor strategy, consoling to Mark about the meta-RP
post 5: reaction to treetwoone's mistake
post 6: reaction to Madge re fb's team colors sorting of him, reminds SDK about naughty-nice list

I thought we weren't supposed to take it seriously?

post 7: revisions to the naughty-nice list with freezeblade coming out badly except for (ironicly) meta reasons, plytho and Vicarin votable
post 8: apology to Madge re not complaining about D1. plytho being votable is a gut read, Madge's scum read of him odd because of the orange thing
post 9: Madge-like D1 no vote
post 10: closing hours panic. summary of scummy looking points on SDK. questions to various people on other wagons. Starts the Vicarin wagon that eventually ends in his lynch.

Up to this point, the Madge-RP had been a bit dense at times. Some good questions here, looked like he was trying to clean up wagons into someone more likely, then proposes a totally different person. Kind of reminded me of this https://xkcd.com/927/

post 11: unvotes, reverting to Madge's usual stance of not voting D1, upset with some people's lack of opinion on SDK wagon

after extension
post 12: congratulates SDK on slipping the noose, RL stuff, confused about something I posted, response to SDK about LaserGuy's read on him
post 13: opinion of Vicarin lowers, doesn't like my or wam's votes, naughty-nice list
post 14: revotes Vicarin to break tie

D2
post 15: RL stuff, whoever received fruit should claim
post 16: comments on Madge's fruit claim, response to bad reaction to his Vicarin vote, plytho v SDK most likely both town, upset Madge isn't tunneling him
post 17: Madge on naughty list for ignoring him, response to plytho that he's still town v town about him and SDK, guess at Sabrar's secret


So, the early posts are a little hard to get through, and most of the rest I'm really confused by. I suppose I should be nervous about not getting a good feel on him.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby plytho » Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:50 pm UTC

I'm considering Freezeblade to have soft claimed a town pr. My assumption now is Freezeblade is town and SDK is scum. So I still want to lynch SDK. Scum will probably try to NK Freezeblade and will need to spend a ninja or strongman. If it does happen the other way around (SDK town, Freezeblade scum) I'm fine with getting Freezeblade to claim tomorrow and see if there are any counter claims.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby SDK » Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:01 pm UTC

plytho wrote:This post from SDK pinged me earlier as a hint for his scumbuddies to NK freezeblade.

Explain? Where do you see me doing this?
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby plytho » Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:21 pm UTC

SDK wrote:
plytho wrote:This post from SDK pinged me earlier as a hint for his scumbuddies to NK freezeblade.

Explain? Where do you see me doing this?
I felt like 100% was quite a bit more than your read explained and noted you said "take out" instead of lynch.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby freezeblade » Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:24 pm UTC

SDK saying they are 100% confident in something is very typical of their meta, scum or town, it's just how they roll (We've gotten in arguments about it it other mafia games).
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby moody7277 » Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:33 pm UTC

Since he's subbing out, this is mostly moot, but I want a base to start from for his replacement (in Boomfrog's case, threetwoone didn't have enough content to make a difference)

freezeblade

Spoiler:
post 1: confirm
post 2: comments on RP, anti-SDK warning (may not have been meant just for him, but is most relevant to him)
post 3: votes jimbob off stated policy, meta avatar stuff
post 4: response to LaserGuy
post 5: breaks people down into teams, immediately suspect of team orange, likes team green
post 6: explanation to threetwoone about the team stuff.
post 7: refreshing jimbob's memory about where he got the team grouping model from (SS '15)

I can say I did recognize the model, and it was used where fb said. I of course remember that game for other reasons :oops:

post 8: some responses, and removes vote from jimbob. low level of concern for SK until evidence, don't claim fruits, don't lynch me
post 9: revisits his team designations, interactions among team orange, jimbob scummiest, Mark and Madge not both scum
post 10: forgiving of Mark for incorrect term usage
post 11: votes jimbob, cites poking him about "lurking"

I am sympathetic about people thinking you should be awake 24 hours a day

post 12: game mechanics fluff
post 13: citation referred to in post 11
post 14: backtrack upon further reading of cited post
post 15: response to jimbob about D1 sucking
post 16: reminder to SDK that most of his meta is based off his famous eight-game scum streak

Note to self: try not to fall into the same mindset

post 17: not sure of motivation for wagon on SDK, usual D1 read on him is neutral

D2
post 18: nothing to claim N1, jimbob still scummiest
post 19: replacement request
post 20:
If I'm not set to be replaced by EOD, and I'm leading in the votes as a result, I will happily full-claim to help out, as mentioned before, lynching me would be bad for town.

Okay, so there are a couple of things of concern. First are the two specifics: the last point in post 8 and in his last post. I'm not a big fan of the whole "doom be upon the town if I die" thing as it's too easy for scum to hide behind or try to get a 1-for-1 exchange. Then there's the usual tone of his posts that I notice. But that leads into the whole "freezeblade always acts this way, fb has been scum in those cases, therefore he must be scum now" fallacy he pointed out in post 16. To my mind, the specific points outweigh the possibility that he's always just going to be tangential in his posting, so I wouldn't feel to bad voting for him.
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:45 pm UTC

I've got plenty of time this evening, so I'm going to update all my reads, where there's new stuff to discuss, not just the ones who I didn't get to last time. Note: lots of ninjas after I made the initial reads, since I've spent all evening on this off-and-on.

BoomFrog (inconclusive, awaiting responses):
Spoiler:
Responds to my questions. Thinks SDK scum from wam and plytho aggression. Acknowledges not real evidence. Wants SDK to be scum, admits somewhat biased. Thinks wam being too aggressive to be trying to set up town!SDK. plytho attack seems sincere, coming from town. I am looking townie. If SDK is town, only wam unsure about. Advises Mark to try and have a vote on someone who might be lynched, suggesting SDK, freezeblade or wam. Advises plytho not to just talk about SDK role-fishing comments. Asks him about possibility of mpolo or Mark as scum-buddy for SDK. Thinks unlikely both freezeblade and wam scum if SDK town. Prods plytho abotu not reading carefully. Thinks mpolo more likely scum if SDK is town, but counteracted by town!SDK gut read. Not giving SDK credit for tone, and actions have been poor, but wagon was too easy, Sabrar kill odd for scum!SDK, some comments hard to come from scum!SDK. Thinks the whole situation might be scum capitalizing on double town wagon D1, and votes wam. Prods for serious votes. Changes vote to freezeblade, pending RL explanation. Asks SDK why he didn't claim earlier. Responds to wam's objections to his scum!wam plan.
I'm happy with BoomFrog's response to my earlier concerns, and indeed, he seems to be trying to determine his own opinion on SDK and others, rather than going with the easy option of just following plytho and wam. Overall getting a townie vibe from him.

freezeblade (previously scummy):

Only the one post since, with no new content. Still scummy, though perhaps slightly less, since his low D2 content can be explained for RL reasons.

Ninja'ed by freezeblade. Sounds like a soft claim to me, and sufficiently soft that nobody can counterclaim. Hmm... will think about this some more.

LaserGuy (previously slight town lean):

Only one post, where he misread my comments on his Vicarin vote. I noticed on second read that this could be easily explained if he knows SDK to be scum (since it was only in this case that I labelled his tie-breaking vote as bad). There are only two ways that I can think of that he knows this for certain: 1) He's SDK's scum buddy (possible), or 2) He is a cop who targeted SDK last night (also plausible). Him thinking Mark, Madge and moody are not mafia for wolf-hunting seems a bit of a stretch to me. Overall, I'm a little uncomfortable with that post, so he slips a bit, possibly crossing the line into very slightly scummy territory now.

Ninja'ed by a long way by LaserGuy. Will read later.

Madge (previously slightly townie, but deteriorating):
Spoiler:
Top two targets are SDK (trusting plytho) and Mark (trusting tunnel). Claims fruit, and knows type, offering to use it to confirm vendor claim. Disagrees with it, but accepts others desire. Confused by my suggested plan, then proposes the same one as I intended. Backs down on Mark scum pick. Might claim as cop if town result, on lynchee.
The thing that stands out to me from Madge's content is her backing down suddenly on Mark being one of her lynch picks, despite no real new information from him. She needs to give that promised Woof/Grr list discussed previously, and try to explain a bit about her top scum read(s) apart from SDK. At the moment, it's too easy for scum!Madge to hide and not provide links to her buddies. Definitely sliding into possible scum territory.

Mark (previously probably scum):

Only real new content is his vote on SDK, so still probably scum.

moody (previously slightly suspicious, but improving):
Spoiler:
Suggests Mark putting foot in it enough to be town. Comfortable calling mpolo town from read through. Uncomfortable giving PRs advice. Registers intent to vote SDK. Answers my question re. his intention to vote SDK.
moody7277 wrote:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Why are you only just committing to this now? What's changed? If nothing, why did you not vote earlier?


Well, to the best of my recollection, SDK was halfway to lynch within a day of D2 starting (checked the timestamps, D2 start 6:42pm Mon, third vote on SDK was 8:50am Tue, so 14 hours). I figured that the REO Speedwagon didn't need my help at that point, plus the usual "don't want to let scum short change us on discussion" yada yada. Plus most of yesterday I spent in a garage office while they replaced my car's water pump.
This didn't really answer what I was getting at, I guess. Why have you only just now restated your _intention_ to vote SDK? You could have done this at any point up to now in your posts this game day, yet I think this is the first time you've mentioned anything about your opinion of SDK since D1.

Away from this, I'm feeling mostly okay about moody, in that although I disagree with some conclusions (Mark is town for putting foot in it is not good reasoning in my opinion), he does at least look to be considering the other options away from SDK. It would be good to get some update on why he dislikes SDK though, because he appears to be just jumping on the wagon, with no real additional attempt to determine if he was right D1 or not. Slightly suspicious still.

mpolo (previously leaning town):

Not much new content to analyse. I approve of his open mind on SDK. That's about it, so still leaning town.

---

That's the catch up done. On to the remaining three:

plytho (previously town):
Spoiler:
Thinks SDK slipped. Asks me to comment more on SDK. SDK vote is weird. Agrees with wam that LaserGuy is trying to redirect the lynch away from SDK. Vicarin scummy, but more confident that SDK is. Highlights that extension at deadline gives double time for wagon analysis. Says SDK is deliberately misleading us. Doesn't feel like townie progress from SDK improvements. Vicarin claimed restriction plausible, but other things look scummy. Not pushing for lynches perhaps worst point. Considers Vicarin/SDK team. Calls for votes with deadline approaching. Restates case against SDK, summarised as SDK made mistakes, and didn't handle them well, with some hard to explain as townie. Asks me about why recent SDK content doesn't come from scum. Thinks both SDK and Vicarin scum, but SDK is more dangerous, and should be lynch. Asks others to join him. Restates case and highlights things he doesn't like again. Thinks likely to be night killed. Next suspect after SDK is freezeblade, possibly also Sabrar or Vicarin. Lots of minor comments about SDK and discussions on that topic with various players.

D2, votes SDK immediately. Summarises for BoomFrog. Still asks for opinions on SDK case. Posts later vote patterns. Fruit vendor comments, including suggesting fruit vendor should claim if fruit is claimed. Not convinced that confirmed town later is useful. Thinks vendor should counterclaim if recipient didn't claim. Assurance of only one scum team useful. Retracts counter-claim point for non claim, due to roleblock chance. Posts thoughts on wagons assuming SDK is scum. Not open to voting anybody other than SDK today. Gets into an argument with SDK, claiming he's focusing on the cover up more. Asks SDK why he isn't voting freezeblade. Disagrees with LaserGuy re. wolf hunters, since scum can easily provide content there. Doesn't like mine and wam's suggested claim strategy because it risks scum finding out who is the fruit vendor. Finds wam statement on cop claim somewhat contradictory. Starts to look away from SDK with questions and comments. Provides some reads (town = BoomFrog, me, mpolo, moody(?), wam, if SDK is scum; scummy = SDK, Mark (sliding towards), LaserGuy, freezeblade, Madge). Thinks LaserGuy likely SDK-buddy, wam + freezeblade scum if SDK town. Wants content from Mark. Willing to wait on LaserGuy until D3.
Disclaimer: I wrote this before my SDK re-read. I'm really not happy with how much plytho has been focusing on his SDK case. I'm not saying it's not well-motivated, but to me, I feel like he's barking up the wrong tree still. From my read of SDK's content up to now, I don't get the "he must be scum" vibe at all, despite the mistakes and supposed attempt to cover up, possibly because I have had similar situations in the past (if not exactly the same). I do like that he is finally starting to look elsewhere. There are a couple of odd things to keep half an eye on (e.g. the poor strategy surrounding the fruit and vendor claims), but it's not really raising any alarm bells at this point. Overall, probably town, even if SDK is scum.

SDK (very slightly town):
Spoiler:
Responds to plytho "making stuff up" comment, as misremembering. Game for lynching plytho. mpolo read is gut read. Switches vote to plytho. Doesn't understand Sabrar's vote on him. Updated read on wam following reasons. wam read list pretty good. I'm still town. Hopped on freezeblade to see what threetwoone would do. His lynch wouldn't have been the worst. Pretty sure Mark is town. mpolo is almost certainly town, based on style. Detailed reread of plytho and Vicarin. Talks himself out of plytho being scum, as he appears to have a townie mindset behind most of what he is doing. Vicarin is a bit concerning (no scum reads, breadcrumbing plan). Responds to questions from Sabrar. Explains info gain from lurker lynch. Wants to lynch moody for ignoring him. Rereads Sabrar, confident he is scum (passive play and faulty reasons for vote). Responds to Sabrar and plytho comments. Thinks it good most people ignored Vicarin's breadcumbing plan. Feels like Vicarin was more aggressive in previous games. Votes freezeblade after reread. More discussion with Sabrar. Thinks freezeblade would have commented on his wagon. Votes Vicarin, as not bad lynch.

D2 - Posts blocks of content written overnight (strongest twon reads are Madge, Mark, mpolo, me; also probably town moody, LaserGuy, threetwoone; preferred lynches are freezeblade, Sabrar, Vicarin?? Wonders if plytho could be Vicarin buddy. Tries to explain miscommunication with plytho. Moody vote was fine, but tying SDK to others, and effect of flip rubbed the wrong way. Finds Sabrar kill interesting. Finds wam comments on SDK weaselling out odd. Fruit vendor claim late can be extremely powerful. Against fruit receiver claiming, as little gain for us. Comments and questions wam on a few things. Wants to lynch freezeblade, or possibly wam. Doesn't think he's been that OMGUSy. Moody also someone he wants to devote more attention to. More discussion with wam. Gets angry with plytho over case, and tries to rebut it. Claims vanilla on prod. Does quick reads of wam, and changes mind to finding him town; moody too hard to read, skipping; mpolo is town; has moody and freezeblade as scum, and votes freezeblade.
SDK - you wrote a part of your first D2 post overnight apparently, specifically this:
SDK wrote:My preferred lynches are freezeblade, Sabrar, Vicarin, in that order.
How come Vicarin is there?? He was already dead by the time you wrote this!

There's so much to wade through from SDK, that I probably haven't given everything the appropriate level of focus. The general tone I get from SDK's responses to plytho on the case is from a case of "oops, my bad" to angry and annoyed at plytho for sticking at it too long. I don't think scum!SDK would have allowed himself to get so annoyed at this. I also think he's doing a good job at masking his scumminess, if he is indeed scum, with all the rest of his content. I agree with his thoughts on most players, apart from possibly Mark, and maybe wam (pending). I don't see him as scum, which makes him probably town.

wam (previously slightly scummy):
Spoiler:
LaserGuy looks very bad if SDK or Vicarin are scum. Would support lynches of any of SDK, Vic or Sabrar. Couple of questions to Sabrar. Explains his comment on LaserGuy on prodding. Unvotes SDK after initial deadline. Reviews Vicarin content, and then switches to voting him, as not being as aggressive. Thinks SDK comment re. mislynch would not come from town!SDK. Thinks there should be enough data from the SDK or Vicarin wagons to proceed from there. Thinks town normally find themselves firmly town, except for those always viewed as scummy. Lynching SDK or Vicarin is fine. Could buy a team between them. Doesn't have a town read of Sabrar. Votes SDK, buying plytho's logic. Acepts townies vote defensively. Thinks scum!SDK shouldn't post until deadline, because it won't help, and could be problematic for him.

D2 - revotes SDK, thinks he weaselled out of the lynch. Suggests advice for BF where to read. Skimmed the wagons - both town is less helpful than scum!SDK town!Vic. Thinks first person to receive fruit should claim, able to use as innocent child later on, when more valuable. Information generally helps town. Thinks plytho definitely town if SDK scum. Waiting for SDK defence. Looked back at dead townies reads. Highlights Sabrar suspicion of SDK, freeze and himself, and Vic of SDK and Madge. Notes Vic's mpolo/SDK link. Fruit receiver should not claim type. Suggests everyone give top two lynch candidates (SDK & freezeblade for himself). Nothing D2 has changed any of his reads. Thinks SDK logic fail may be a slip. Confirmed town thought SDK was scum. Wam had a plan for confirming the fruit vendor to their towniest read. Accuses Mark of lying (incorrectly). 75% confident in setup 10, as cop would probably have copped SDK and would have claimed a town result by now. Clarifies that he thinks they would have, but not should have. Has me, plytho and Madge as towniest, freeze and SDK as scummiest, unsure on Boom and Laser, due to minor pings. Thinks SDK wagon wasn't easy. Points out BF's change in view on him, and wonders if BF is SDK's partner. Asks BoomFrog what we would learn from a Freezeblade lynch. Prods mad for vote indicator (but forgets she's already voting). Promises reread.
I'm not getting any strong feelings on wam either way at this point. There are a few small oddities with his play that I find interesting, but I think he's more likely to be town than scum. One example of this is that I don't think scum would have forgotten that Madge was voting SDK already, especially if SDK turns up scum. I do find his comments re. cop claims weird and unthought out (or possibly intentionally sneaky bad suggestions). Overall, slight town lean.

Final ordered list:
Town
plytho
BoomFrog
mpolo
SDK
wam
LaserGuy
Madge
moody
freezeblade*
Mark
Scum

*need to think about freezeblade's soft claim a bit more. Current preferred lynch is Mark:

Vote Mark_Cangila

All the ninjas - not really read anything in thread since freezeblade's 9pm UTC post, and skimmed several posts before that.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby moody7277 » Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:57 pm UTC

Current positions (not in order within categories)

not votable:
mpolo
jimbob
plytho

not sure/to examine:
Madge
BoomFrog
wam

votable:
SDK
freezeblade
Mark
LaserGuy

jimbob ninja
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:This didn't really answer what I was getting at, I guess. Why have you only just now restated your _intention_ to vote SDK? You could have done this at any point up to now in your posts this game day, yet I think this is the first time you've mentioned anything about your opinion of SDK since D1.


I was in the middle of considering other people for the couple of days since D2 started, and only just then came back around to him once people started mentioning that it's the weekend before deadline when voting is important.

Away from this, I'm feeling mostly okay about moody, in that although I disagree with some conclusions (Mark is town for putting foot in it is not good reasoning in my opinion)


I keep going back and forth on that with the analogy in mind of Peaceful Whale as newbie town in his first game I was in (don't recall which that was) versus PW in Fridge Mafia where he was scum and I correctly voted for him before I got co-lynched. The result of that internal discussion is that, as you can see, I now have him among the votables.
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby BoomFrog » Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:33 am UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:I don't think scum!SDK would have allowed himself to get so annoyed at this. I also think he's doing a good job at masking his scumminess, if he is indeed scum, with all the rest of his content.
The anger is easy even as scum if SDK really disagrees with plytho's points. The anger is only evidence that SDK wasn't role fishing, not evidence that he is town. I had the same reaction as scum in crossover. The mistake was innocent. However, I will say even an innocent mistake is more likely to come from scum because scum are using more cognitive load to play mental gymnastics.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby Madge » Sat Jun 09, 2018 2:31 am UTC

Nothing really to comment on, and I’ve got a lot to do today, so let’s keep this to the point:

Woof:
Plytho (trying at least; good case)
Mpolo (little content to go on, but sungura means trustworthy; mpolo hasn’t explicitly claimed town, has he? Don’t expect him to claim anything as even claiming VT would be counter to sungura’s ethics)

Blank stare into the void™:
Moody
Jimbob
Boomfrog
Freezeblade (nfi why everyone else finds him scummy)
Laserguy (if I were roleplaying he’d go into grr but I’m not so he’s here)

Grr:
Mark (less grr-y because I think the lack of werewolves makes PMgate less suspect, and also because PMgate was partially roleplay oriented)
SDK (plytho’s case)

Much like moody these aren’t in order.

If SDK flips town then Plytho is on the hot seat.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby SDK » Sat Jun 09, 2018 2:37 am UTC

Madge wrote:If SDK flips town then Plytho is on the hot seat.

This is the first truly concerning thing I think you've posted all game, Madge.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day One

Postby wam » Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:27 pm UTC

Read list last time.

Spoiler:
Town
Plytho
Jimbob
Laserguy
Madge
Moody
MArk
Mpolo
Freezeblade
Sabrar
Vicarin
SDK

Scum


D2 Reads

Boomfrog - I'm having trouble with the boomfrog read. I find the sudden switch from Wam is town to wam is scum quite scummy. However, I don't know how much of this is OMGUS biasing my read.

Freezeblade - I'm reading freeze neutral based on the RL issues highlighted. Will wait to see about replacement etc.

Jimbob - I like jimbob's content and reads they make sense and seem to be coming from a town perspective.

Laser - content is low but due to understandable RL reasons. Going to give him a pass for D2.

Madge - View on SDK is very muddled. Would be suspicious if SDK turns up scum as it could be a buddy trying to keep their options open. Also MAdge you missed me off your reads list!

Mark - Like others I got a newbie town vibe day 1. The SDK vote is slightly odd but I am willing to wait for the promised read lists.

Moody - THe reads I agree with I think I had not really clocked them as they were spread out so much. Feel better about moody now.

Mpolo - Looking back through the posts there is a focus on SDK and no views really on anyone else. MPOLO can you give reads on other people?

Plytho - I have a town read that has got stronger as there is more talk about other than SDK.

Run out of time there - More in a bit.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby mpolo » Sat Jun 09, 2018 2:31 pm UTC

@wam

Yeah the situation with posting has been a little weird here.

I am tending to think plytho is town and am trying to determine if plytho-SDK is a town-town or town-scum interaction. But I want to reread him.
I am fairly comfortable with Madge (which is unusual, because I usually read her as scummy; of course, I usually read bessie as townie, so maybe her channelling is especially good.
Mark I don't know. Early WW interest was a red light, but there don't seem to be WWs. PM-Gate increases the chance of a town PR. Actually, it would be worth looking at our options for scum compared to the two setups we might be -- if only one has a protective role, that would likely be ours, as the mafia apparently did not try to kill Mark.

Blood pressure check coming, so I'll post now.
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby plytho » Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:23 pm UTC

Weekend reads:

Boomfrog: Boomfrog’s progression on SDK feels very natural. He’s not fully committing to a read on SDK which does look a little suspicious and allows boomfrog to soft-bus SDK without voting him. He does provide a lot of evidence to support his position so I do believe it’s coming from a townie perspective. His vote for wam makes sense. The vote for freezeblade less so.
BoomFrog wrote:I think top 3 is probably more informative, top 2 still let's people hide in non-controversial picks. My top 4 right now to keep an eye on as I read D1 are:
SDK, Mark, mpolo and LaserGuy.
Except for SDK I don’t think you provided a clear read on that top 4. Let alone some others. Could you provide a town-to-scum? Who could be wam’s buddies/ freezeblade’s buddies?

Generally my feel is Boomfrog is town. There’s a slight possibility he’s buddies with SDK.

Freezeblade: Freezeblade’s replacement request indicates his absence wasn’t scummy lurking. As I said before: I believe Freezeblade soft-claimed a town-PR and should be kept alive. I don’t want him to claim today. I do want him to claim tomorrow though.

Benefits of keeping town-freezeblade alive: we don’t mislynch him, he gets to use his power, if scum NK him at least it’s not an active PR-townie, if they don’t we have a confirmed townie with a power and results, as a confirmed townie his content doesn’t need to be stellar as his strength is his power.

Risks of keeping scum-freezeblade alive: whatever he claims tomorrow will be false and force an actual town-PR to out themselves to lynch freezeblade. If we mislynch today we’re at 6-3 D3 and 5-2 D4 with at least one PR-townie gone.

I think I can live with those numbers (that look even better if we lynch scum today).

I know that’s strategy and not a read, but I’m reading D2 content and freezeblade doesn’t have any.

Jimbobmacdoodle: no content issues here! Not one but two massive reads lists :shock:
Looks very good if SDK is town. I don’t think scum!jimbob would go out of his way to save town!SDK. If SDK is scum jimbob isn’t my first pick for a buddy. His view is well motivated and his other content is solid. Odd thing about his latest reads list is the position of moody in the tts. It feels like moody is lower than the read implies, but maybe I’m misreading things. Hmm looking at it more I’m also wondering about jimbob’s Mark read.

@jimbob: you’re convinced mark is scum but you’ve made no mention of possible buddies. Any thoughts on that?

Probably town.

LaserGuy: some suspicion for that werewolf reasoning + vic vote timing (if SDK=scum). Waiting for that D3 content to get a better read.

Madge: I’m a little confused because I thought this reply from madge:
Madge wrote:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Oh yeah forgot to ask: Madge, you previously seemed to think Mark was probably a wolf, IIRC. Now that you know he's not, do you have an updated reason for trusting your tunnel?


Nope, consider me as having reached the light at the end of the tunnel.
meant she’d stopped trusting her tunnel, but I guess not?

Not sure where to put Madge, she remains slightly scummy.

Mark: slipping down due to low content. I did change my mind about the possibility of mark-SDK buddies

plytho wrote:Hmm, Mark as SDK buddy is possible, that could explain SDK's motivation for pushing Madge away from mark. I do have a newbie town read on Mark and I'd kind of expect to see some signs of coaching after the night.
Reading through everything brought me back to this and I actually don’t think Mark could be SDK’s buddy. Sure there’s motivation to push madge away from mark, but I really don’t believe SDK wouldn’t be aware of the possibility that his buddy was asking about his role.

Moody: I like moody’s reads, they feel original. His progress on Mark is natural. Moving towards the townie side.

Mpolo: remains a town read. Nothing suspicious about his posts. Everything makes sense.

SDK: remains a scum read. His reads list has way too many townies.

Wam: there are some suspicious bits in his content that will look worse should SDK flip town. Otherwise he’s townie.

Hmm, maybe next time I should do a reverse read as I seem to run out of steam near the end which makes me focus a lot more on the alphabetically (dis)advantaged.


Town
Plytho
Mpolo
jimbobmacdoodle
wam
boomfrog
Moody

freezeblade
Mark
Madge
LaserGuy


SDK
Scum
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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby bessie » Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:33 pm UTC

It was getting later, but it was still early for young teens trying to make the most of their last summer weekend. A car drove past the park, its headlights briefly shining on them, and pulled into a driveway halfway down the street.

moody7277: Hey plytho, isn’t that your sister that just drove by?
wam: [eyeing car] Yeah it is getting pretty late isn’t it plytho maybe we should be heading back to your house soon.
bessie: [attempting to sit closer to BoomFrog] You can leave if you want. I’m not ready to go home yet.
plytho: I’m not ready to go home either. Are we going to vote for SDK or not? He’s been acting scummy and dodging questions all night.
wam: [disappointed] Well all right let’s just vote for SDK and get it over with.
Dog: Woof woof!
jimbobmacdoodle: What’s your hurry wam, got something to hide?
moody7277: [smirks] I know what his hurry is.
mpolo: SDK, are you even going to defend yourself, or are you just going to sit back and let that dog bark at anyone that calls you scummy?
Dog: Grrrr…..
freezeblade: Whavsiuhpdarg? [falls back asleep]
SDK: [blows smoke in plytho’s face] You’re wrong. And stubborn. Bit strange how you’re so focused on me and not even looking at anyone else.
Madge: [pulls a piece of fruit out of her pocket and bites in to it] Bit strange how everyone thinks you’re scummy.
Diemo: Well not everyone.


Official Votals:

SDK (4) : wam, plytho, Madge, Mark_Cangila
freezeblade (2) : BoomFrog, SDK
Mark_Cangila (1) : jimbobmacdoodle

Not Voting (4) : freezeblade, LaserGuy, moody7277, mpolo

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to hammer.

Deadline is Monday 11th 8PM GMT

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Re: Meta Mafia II: Day Two

Postby plytho » Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:20 pm UTC

Tomorrow is very busy for me so I may not be able to post. I will be around on Monday and at deadline.
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