Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (N5)

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Vicarin
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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby Vicarin » Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:49 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:And this appears to be just random, for the sake of appearances.


Wanted to get some conversation going seeing as it was pretty slow when I woke up, and I need some information really, really fast for my secondary wincon. You got a better way of getting information about specific people?

And while BoomFrog is being significantly more helpful than just woofing, it's clearly less useful that him just speaking plainly.

Unvote: Madge
Vote: BoomFrog


until he feels like being more straightforward.

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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby Mark_Cangila » Fri Jul 27, 2018 12:28 pm UTC

bessie wrote:
Mark_Cangila wrote:I think I misunderstood the nuances. I think I understand the reasoning behind his suspicion, and I understand your response. I can explain if anyone wants me to.
Maybe you can explain my response to LaserGuy. He doesn’t get it.

Sure actually.
Bessie wrote:
BoomFrog wrote:A happy dog plays, a nervous dog barks.
How unfortunate for us all that Bessie is scum.

Do you even have a dog? Hoku barks all the frickin time, and it is non indicative of his current level of happiness or nervousness.

BoomFrog's section is him saying that Bessie was not going along with RVS and therefore is scum. She was not happy (town) because she was not playing (participating in RVS). Bessie's response said that her RVS participation was irrelevant to her alignment

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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby Sabrar » Fri Jul 27, 2018 12:51 pm UTC

bessie never participates in RVS.

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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby moody7277 » Fri Jul 27, 2018 1:01 pm UTC

Vicarin wrote:@moody: ah, so someone making that sort of blanket declaration means you're scum, cool :D


I see you're going for the whole Obi Wan "only Sith deal in absoultes" thing. I'm a bit of a fan of the surety is for scum paradigm thing myself.

Unvote
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby heuristically_alone » Fri Jul 27, 2018 2:31 pm UTC

Madge wrote:@setupspec: not participating, I am completely opting out of trying to understand WoT, and i am not convinced it provides value

I think 7-1-1-1-1 could work and could be balanced by having one of the town numbers be a SK backup if an SK is killed too quickly, or something. That's maybe bastard though, so perhaps not. I'm not a setup balancer person so maybe ignore me.

I like how you say you won't participate in setup spec then proceed to do setup spec. Anyhow, I think it's anti-town to to avoid setup discussion because if you're not town it's easier to avoid giving away clues to your faction.

LaserGuy wrote:
bessie wrote:
BoomFrog wrote:A happy dog plays, a nervous dog barks.
How unfortunate for us all that Bessie is scum.


Do you even have a dog? Hoku barks all the frickin time, and it is non indicative of his current level of happiness or nervousness.

Ninja'd again, going to work.


Pings me a bit that you responded to the dog part and not the scum part.

Vote: bessie


It baffles me that Laserguy didn't see Bessie's response to the scum part. PING!

Bessie is doing a great job scum hunting thusfar. A moody, boomfrog, bessie scumteam would be terrifying though.

If mark's 2dry win condition is pushing him to talk more and provide content, I'm not complaining. I think the fact that Mark provided that as the reason he is talking more is indicative of him being town.

Sabrar wrote:- heury's straight 8-3 spec is weird.

Basically I was claiming not indy, which I'm sure you noticed. What else could be weird about it?

mpolo wrote:I have some doubts about my ability to pull off my secondary win condition. But I will try to do so…

Knowing the wincon now, mpolo's tone here definitely sounds town.

wam wrote:Numbers suggested look reasonable to me.

Looks reasonable that scum would find the town discussion reasonable.

unvote
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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby Vicarin » Fri Jul 27, 2018 3:00 pm UTC

While Mark is talking a fair bit more this game than usual, which is good, I just wish he'd been slightly more careful reading over stuff like the rules. And the way the game was advertised as PR heavy.

Although it's only been 24 hours since his only post and he said that he'd have limited internet for a bit, it's rather annoying that wam isn't saying anything during this initial discussion. Bleh.

heuristically_alone wrote:A moody, boomfrog, bessie scumteam would be terrifying though.


Is there any particular reason moody is on this list?

moody7277 wrote:
Vicarin wrote:@moody: ah, so someone making that sort of blanket declaration means you're scum, cool :D


I see you're going for the whole Obi Wan "only Sith deal in absoultes" thing. I'm a bit of a fan of the surety is for scum paradigm thing myself.


Uh, not really what I was going for, just making a joke that the sample size of 1 for implying that LaserGuy is scum from his repeated behavior could also be applied to say you're scum. But sure.

With regards to setup speculation, I'd still say it's more likely that there aren't a massive number of different single person factions, just because of the balancing headaches that causes. Whether 8-3, 8-2-1 or 7-2-2 would work best would depend strongly on the kinds of powers jimbob had in mind for the game. Not much else to go on until there's some night results and flips, unless people feel like blurting out guesses for what each of the colors will have as powers (almost certainly a bad idea).

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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby BoomFrog » Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:03 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
BoomFrog wrote:Why are you fishing if you are not a fisherman?
You show me yours and I'll show you mine.

I shall answer your question a third time.
Who I am was decided long ago, in a past age.
Far before the start of this new age.
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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby BoomFrog » Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:11 pm UTC

Vicarin wrote:@BoomFrog: how long are you going to keep this up for?

When the wren catches a beetle.
When the field is plowed.
When the mouse is in it's burrow.
One cannot rest until the task is done.

Vicarin wrote:I sincerely hope this BoomFrog roleplaying is more useful than the woofs were.

A master has failed more times then an apprentice has tried.
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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby BoomFrog » Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:21 pm UTC

A faithful dog guards her home.
How fortunate for us all that Bessie is town.
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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby BoomFrog » Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:34 pm UTC

mpolo wrote:BoomFrog's oracular statements have things in them that seem to be nuggets of truth, and other things that seem to be invented. I'm wondering if he is someone like Elaida, who claimed to have prophetic abilities, and even did have one or two prophecies, but most of what she prophesized was self-serving. I don't think that he would have been able, game-balance-wise, to get three certain results: 1) that I am really a miller [I tend to believe this one], 2) that there are exactly 3 scum in a team [this is plausible, though I would have expected some divisions among the scum -- not 7-1-1-1-1 necessarily, but 7-2-1-1 or 7-3-1 would have seemed more likely to me.], and 3) that bessie is scum [plausible, but improbable that he would have such a result this soon]. As a result, I have to take everything he says with a lot of salt.

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Even the present is unknowable.
I do not know how others will see you.
But I see one who is fighting for the good of us all.
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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby BoomFrog » Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:34 pm UTC

moody7277 wrote:So it looks like BoomFrog's got some oracle thing going on. Just remember that an oracle always says the absolute truth, but you only realize it after the fact :P . I am going to get flashbacks to the SuperMegaCrazyMayhem game from the versifying.

Do you mock me for my failure as an oracle in a past age?
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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby Sabrar » Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:44 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote:I shall answer your question a third time.
Who I am was decided long ago, in a past age.
Far before the start of this new age.
Thank you for that non-cryptic answer. I asked because I hoped to get a different one, this unfortunately tells me little.

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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby LaserGuy » Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:48 pm UTC

Madge wrote:I actually meant maybe you're being townie rather than maybe bessie's being scummy. But goes to show I was wrong.


Why are you still voting Sabrar if you think he might be town?

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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby LaserGuy » Fri Jul 27, 2018 5:11 pm UTC

BoomFrog leaning Town. I can speak a little oracle, which helps.

Sabrar is a bit more reserved than I was expecting given his opening post and pregame GoJoe excitement. Not sure where to place that in terms of alignment yet.

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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby heuristically_alone » Fri Jul 27, 2018 6:01 pm UTC

Haha I was literally about to post that I predict LaserGuy to publicly be unaware of Sabrat's alignment.

Vicarin wrote:
heuristically_alone wrote:A moody, boomfrog, bessie scumteam would be terrifying though.


Is there any particular reason moody is on this list?

bessie wrote:
moody7277 wrote:So it looks like BoomFrog's got some oracle thing going on. Just remember that an oracle always says the absolute truth, but you only realize it after the fact :P .
Hahahahaha this is so opportunistic

Because of this interaction. I am leaning Bessir and Boomfrog as town right now two, as I'm sure most are, which makes it all more dangerous.

BoomFrog wrote:
Vicarin wrote:@BoomFrog: how long are you going to keep this up for?

When the wren catches a beetle.
When the field is plowed.
When the mouse is in it's burrow.
One cannot rest until the task is done.

Vicarin wrote:I sincerely hope this BoomFrog roleplaying is more useful than the woofs were.

A master has failed more times then an apprentice has tried.

Vicarin, go back and read Boomfrog's results from his woof game and think about what category he may be putting you in right now.
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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby Sabrar » Fri Jul 27, 2018 6:03 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:Sabrar is a bit more reserved than I was expecting
I'm playing a lot of Throne of Lies in my free time. I didn't want to cheat on this forum with another platform but it's been way too long...

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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby dimochka » Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:04 pm UTC

Votals:

Vicarin - 1 (Sabrar)
bessie - 1 (LaserGuy)
Sabrar - 1 (Madge)
Boomfrog - 1 (Vicarin)

Not Voting: BoomFrog, wam, bessie, Mark_Cangila, mpolo, moody7277, heuristically_alone

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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby moody7277 » Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:36 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote:Do you mock me for my failure as an oracle in a past age?


Unless you were in the game run by AngrySquirrel from June to July of 2009, no. There were three of us (me included) in that game who had verse post-restrictions, and the intro flavor had an oracular tinge to it which was lampshaded with similar language.

mpolo and Mark looking townie to me, more detailed snap reads on Saturday when I have some free time.
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby heuristically_alone » Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:10 pm UTC

Well if mafia has day chat, I don't think Boomfrog and moody are scum buddies.
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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:45 pm UTC

Looking at my schedule for next week, I won't be around to write up day end flavour until Wednesday, so I am extending D1 until then.

Deadline is 18:00 UTC, Wednesday 1st August.

As I am also quite busy during the following days, it would be helpful if everybody could send in their night actions as soon as possible after day end (or even before day end if they prefer).
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Image

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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby bessie » Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:15 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:
bessie wrote:This is an interesting question, considering BoomFrog changed his avatar about two weeks ago. Did you not notice?
MetaMafia confused the hell out of me with people changing avatars left and right. Tried to learn ignoring them.
Hmm, I would think this unlikely from some other players, and I need to think about if this answer is plausible from you. Odd, but when I read this I thought of this post but misremembered it slightly. I remembered it as you had stopped paying attention to avatars a while ago for the same reason you now claim.

Sabrar wrote:- Vicarin's first post is not exactly helpful. Getting a reserved vibe which would indicate scum.
Interesting. I’ve been getting a reserved vibe from you for the entire game, even pre game, and I’ve already pre-FoSed Vicarin for having the opposite evaluation.

Sabrar wrote:- I have two separate reasons to find bessie scummy, unfortunately one of them is pretty weak due to her giving valid reasons for it.
If the other is the Gojoe post I did that on purpose.

Vicarin wrote:Wanted to get some conversation going seeing as it was pretty slow when I woke up, and I need some information really, really fast for my secondary wincon. You got a better way of getting information about specific people?
I find it very hard to believe that there is any information you absolutely have to have right this minute now for your secondary wincon. I just can’t see that there is any possibility that you need to submit something based on real time, not game time. Hey, I could be wrong, and if your deadline was Friday noon UTC I apologize. But you just seem to have a tendency to want to know everything about roles, results, and the setup immediately. You don’t want to let the game unfold, and I’ve observed in past games that you get mad at others for not throwing down information or claiming.

Vicarin wrote:And while BoomFrog is being significantly more helpful than just woofing, it's clearly less useful that him just speaking plainly.

Unvote: Madge
Vote: BoomFrog


until he feels like being more straightforward.
And this too. Do you really not see what is happening here?

Mark_Cangila, this was a good analysis! I can’t claim to know what is in the mind of The Wise One, but you were close in your explanation of my response. I bark when I’m happy, nervous, scared, sad, confident, uncertain, depressed, angry, etc, and I’m all of these things as town and as scum. If needed I can probably dig up examples.

bessie’s real life
Spoiler:
For anyone that doesn’t know, HokuDog is an energetic, enthusiastic, two and a half year old Labrador Retriever that runs on jet fuel and bit me once when he was excited. He’s not the calm, retired therapy dog in my avatar, all my avatar pictures are the late BessieDog, and she never barked. You can see HokuDog here.


heuristically_alone wrote:If mark's 2dry win condition is pushing him to talk more and provide content, I'm not complaining. I think the fact that Mark provided that as the reason he is talking more is indicative of him being town.
I would hope that all the secondary win cons are non alignment indicitive, so there shouldn’t be any issues with revealing them (not that I think that is a good idea, as it sort of takes away some of the fun). But I do think that in general talking and making good contributions is townie.

Vicarin wrote:While Mark is talking a fair bit more this game than usual, which is good, I just wish he'd been slightly more careful reading over stuff like the rules. And the way the game was advertised as PR heavy.
Can you elaborate on what you think the possible implications of this might be? Do you think this is alignment indicative, or not, and why?

Vicarin wrote:With regards to setup speculation, I'd still say it's more likely that there aren't a massive number of different single person factions, just because of the balancing headaches that causes. Whether 8-3, 8-2-1 or 7-2-2 would work best would depend strongly on the kinds of powers jimbob had in mind for the game. Not much else to go on until there's some night results and flips, unless people feel like blurting out guesses for what each of the colors will have as powers (almost certainly a bad idea).
I’m still considering my setup speculation and just how much I feel like blurting. If you’re bored, you can always take a look at this which was remarkably accurate. I think mpolo got most if not all of them right.

Sabrar wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:Sabrar is a bit more reserved than I was expecting
I'm playing a lot of Throne of Lies in my free time. I didn't want to cheat on this forum with another platform but it's been way too long...
:shock: I......I.....you mean.....you’ve...been.........seeing other people :( ...........behind my back.......? :cry:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIIxlgcuQRU


Back after I recover from the shock.........

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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby Vicarin » Sat Jul 28, 2018 4:29 am UTC

bessie wrote:I find it very hard to believe that there is any information you absolutely have to have right this minute now for your secondary wincon. I just can’t see that there is any possibility that you need to submit something based on real time, not game time. Hey, I could be wrong, and if your deadline was Friday noon UTC I apologize. But you just seem to have a tendency to want to know everything about roles, results, and the setup immediately. You don’t want to let the game unfold, and I’ve observed in past games that you get mad at others for not throwing down information or claiming.


While it's not real time based or anything, I DO need information by the end of the day, if I want a decent chance of succeeding in it. Looking like I'll probably need to write it off at this point.

bessie wrote:
Vicarin wrote:While Mark is talking a fair bit more this game than usual, which is good, I just wish he'd been slightly more careful reading over stuff like the rules. And the way the game was advertised as PR heavy.
Can you elaborate on what you think the possible implications of this might be? Do you think this is alignment indicative, or not, and why?


I'd normally say that for a newer player that it would just mean that they're not used to examining all the rules in detail. Don't think it's terribly indicative overall?

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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby Madge » Sat Jul 28, 2018 4:30 am UTC

LaserGuy wrote:
Madge wrote:I actually meant maybe you're being townie rather than maybe bessie's being scummy. But goes to show I was wrong.


Why are you still voting Sabrar if you think he might be town?


Everyone might be town unless you know otherwise! CLAIM: I am not a cop who got a guilty result on Sabrar N0

Do you know Sabrar's alignment?

Who wants a present?
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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby heuristically_alone » Sat Jul 28, 2018 5:22 am UTC

Madge wrote:Who wants a present?

ME!!!!

bessie wrote:
heuristically_alone wrote:If mark's 2dry win condition is pushing him to talk more and provide content, I'm not complaining. I think the fact that Mark provided that as the reason he is talking more is indicative of him being town.
I would hope that all the secondary win cons are non alignment indicitive, so there shouldn’t be any issues with revealing them (not that I think that is a good idea, as it sort of takes away some of the fun). But I do think that in general talking and making good contributions is townie.

If he were scum with than 2ndry wincon I feel he wouldn't have told us, because he would want us to think he was posting more content because he is town and not because of some other mechanic.

bessie wrote:
Vicarin wrote:With regards to setup speculation, I'd still say it's more likely that there aren't a massive number of different single person factions, just because of the balancing headaches that causes. Whether 8-3, 8-2-1 or 7-2-2 would work best would depend strongly on the kinds of powers jimbob had in mind for the game. Not much else to go on until there's some night results and flips, unless people feel like blurting out guesses for what each of the colors will have as powers (almost certainly a bad idea).
I’m still considering my setup speculation and just how much I feel like blurting. If you’re bored, you can always take a look at this which was remarkably accurate. I think mpolo got most if not all of them right.

Hey cool, looks like mpolo's theory works for me too.
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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby LaserGuy » Sat Jul 28, 2018 6:23 am UTC

Madge wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:
Madge wrote:I actually meant maybe you're being townie rather than maybe bessie's being scummy. But goes to show I was wrong.


Why are you still voting Sabrar if you think he might be town?


Everyone might be town unless you know otherwise! CLAIM: I am not a cop who got a guilty result on Sabrar N0

Do you know Sabrar's alignment?

Who wants a present?


Hmm.....

Vote: Madge

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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby Sabrar » Sat Jul 28, 2018 6:42 am UTC

LaserGuy wrote:
Madge wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:
Madge wrote:I actually meant maybe you're being townie rather than maybe bessie's being scummy. But goes to show I was wrong.


Why are you still voting Sabrar if you think he might be town?


Everyone might be town unless you know otherwise! CLAIM: I am not a cop who got a guilty result on Sabrar N0

Do you know Sabrar's alignment?

Who wants a present?


Hmm.....

Vote: Madge

I'm gonna call this right now. LaserGuy is town.

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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby mpolo » Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:53 am UTC

This time, we picked our own Ajahs (barring changes from the mod), so I have less reason to think that every Ajah is represented. Also we have this mechanic where the Ajahs and roles were assigned before the alignments were passed out. That means that book knowledge is going to be much less useful this time around.

People who chose blue were probably hoping to be town, people who chose red or black likely wanting to be scum. But since the alignments are randomized, that's pretty irrelevant.
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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby bessie » Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:24 am UTC

Vicarin wrote:While it's not real time based or anything, I DO need information by the end of the day, if I want a decent chance of succeeding in it. Looking like I'll probably need to write it off at this point.
Fishing, and using his secondary win condition as an excuse. You’ve been fishing all game.

Vicarin post summary
Spoiler:
Post 1
Some setup talk. Vicarin's secondary win condition is focused on one person. Sabrar more eagar than usual. I already questioned this here.

Hmm, is this fishing?
Vicarin wrote:With regards to the flavour, I'm completely helpless, but the colour summaries in the signup do help for role speculation. Not sure if there's anything else helpful to say about that...


Post 2
Some setup talk. Expresses his disapproval of BoomGuru (first time).

Post 3
This is an odd post that is entirely fishing for certain players opinions on certain other players. Possible that this is a post fishing for the information he needs for his secondary win condition. Except for the line again expressing disapproval of BoomLama.
Questions wam, mpolo, and Madge on Mark.
Questions heury and Mark on Bessie.

Post 4
Questions Mark on wam (I feel that Mark may be Vicarin’s target). And a reply to me. Vicarin realizes BoomSwami is pulling a gambit, but sees it as generally useless.

Post 5
Questions moody on LaserGuy.

Post 6
Questions Madge on previous post (Sabrar and bessie).

Post 7
Defends Post 3 to Sabrar.
Questions related to secondary win condition:
Vicarin wrote: Wanted to get some conversation going seeing as it was pretty slow when I woke up, and I need some information really, really fast for my secondary wincon. You got a better way of getting information about specific people?

Expresses frustration with BoomProphet by voting for him.

Post 8
Comments that Mark did not read sign up/OP info carefully, but I suspect he is just making noise because he does not draw any conclusions from this observation (I asked him about this here).

This very um, let’s say odd, remark:
Vicarin wrote:
heuristically_alone wrote:A moody, boomfrog, bessie scumteam would be terrifying though.

Is there any particular reason moody is on this list?
...followed by an awkward exchange with moody. Which is more noise.

Ends with this possible fishing, echoing Post 1:
Vicarin wrote:With regards to setup speculation, I'd still say it's more likely that there aren't a massive number of different single person factions, just because of the balancing headaches that causes. Whether 8-3, 8-2-1 or 7-2-2 would work best would depend strongly on the kinds of powers jimbob had in mind for the game. Not much else to go on until there's some night results and flips, unless people feel like blurting out guesses for what each of the colors will have as powers (almost certainly a bad idea).

Note that I replied to this here.

Post 9
The post I am currently addressing.

Hmmmmmm.....
bessie wrote:And I'm going to be suspicious of anyone with questionable content that hides behind the excuse that they are just trying to fulfill their secondary win condition.


Vicarin wrote:I'd normally say that for a newer player that it would just mean that they're not used to examining all the rules in detail. Don't think it's terribly indicative overall?
Then why bring it up in Post 8? Do you think town or scum would be more careful about reading the rules? How about a new player vs an experienced player? Is there any category of player that you think might be more likely to misread (or not read) the pre game information?

Why do so many of your comments end with question marks? I don’t remember this as something you’ve done often in the past. Or at all.


Vote: Vicarin


mpolo wrote:This time, we picked our own Ajahs (barring changes from the mod), so I have less reason to think that every Ajah is represented. Also we have this mechanic where the Ajahs and roles were assigned before the alignments were passed out. That means that book knowledge is going to be much less useful this time around.

People who chose blue were probably hoping to be town, people who chose red or black likely wanting to be scum. But since the alignments are randomized, that's pretty irrelevant.
The Red Ajah is not in this game (see sign ups). I asked about it pregame, because I thought it was a mistake. I received an answer that the setting of the game is the Salidar rebellion and no Reds took part. Also confirmed by jimbob in Gojoe thread here.

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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby Vicarin » Sat Jul 28, 2018 10:20 am UTC

bessie wrote:
Vicarin wrote:I'd normally say that for a newer player that it would just mean that they're not used to examining all the rules in detail. Don't think it's terribly indicative overall?
Then why bring it up in Post 8? Do you think town or scum would be more careful about reading the rules? How about a new player vs an experienced player? Is there any category of player that you think might be more likely to misread (or not read) the pre game information?


I think that scum in general will be more careful about reading the rules, just because they feel they need to be more careful in general, and that an experienced player is more likely to carefully make notes about what's different compared to normal rules. A newer player is obviously more likely to misread the pregame information, not sure beyond that.

I brought it up in post 8 because people like LaserGuy, Madge and mpolo (and possibly Sabrar) seemed to be reading him as town, on the basis of his contributions, which consisted significantly at that point of asking a mod question publicly of a rule that can be answered by reading the start of this thread, and speculation about the number of PRs that could be answered by reading the signups. I would generally prefer people to be asking questions that are useful in general, and despite Mark being relatively new, I wouldn't put it past him to try to possibly fake not paying attention, given what he did pull off in Alien Warfare for a while.

bessie wrote:Why do so many of your comments end with question marks? I don’t remember this as something you’ve done often in the past. Or at all.


You don't remember me asking questions? Huh? :P

Seeing as I'll just be accused by you of fishing for the ENTIRE game if I don't nip this in the bud, fine, I need information about wam's alignment by the end of the day preferably. However, he's not here right now, which is really damn annoying for trying to get any information out of him or about him, so whatever. It does seem rather hard to pull off in general in any case.

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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby mpolo » Sat Jul 28, 2018 1:23 pm UTC

bessie wrote:
mpolo wrote:This time, we picked our own Ajahs (barring changes from the mod), so I have less reason to think that every Ajah is represented. Also we have this mechanic where the Ajahs and roles were assigned before the alignments were passed out. That means that book knowledge is going to be much less useful this time around.

People who chose blue were probably hoping to be town, people who chose red or black likely wanting to be scum. But since the alignments are randomized, that's pretty irrelevant.
The Red Ajah is not in this game (see sign ups). I asked about it pregame, because I thought it was a mistake. I received an answer that the setting of the game is the Salidar rebellion and no Reds took part. Also confirmed by jimbob in Gojoe thread here.


Thanks for pointing that out. That means that BoomFrog isn't Elaida, too, as she was Red (at least until she became Amrylin, but since we're dealing with Salidar, that's probably moot anyway).
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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby wam » Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:52 pm UTC

I'm here. Well physically home. Massively sleep deprived though. Going to do a detailed catch up tomorrow when my brain is working.

Suspicious of all those piling suspicion on me.fkr lurking when I had given advanced notice. Seems like it would be a very easy way for scum to get a fake scum read on town. Will look at these in more detail on my read through.
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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby moody7277 » Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:59 pm UTC

bessie- some early analysis, slightly suspicious of Madge, will be upset if BoomFrog is obfuscating as scum, little bit of indignation over me and LG's reactions to BF's oracular accusation,

My objection is not to the content in the confirmation posts. It’s the attitude that confirmation posts don’t count as game content. Conformation posts most certainly count as game content. Anything posted in the game thread counts as game content and is fair game to be analyzed


This looks like you are getting your wish about SDK's techniques. speculation of reasons given in response to Madge look weighted on her being antagonistic, some responses to Sabrar, pleased with Mark, analysis of Vicarin resulting in a vote, no Red Ajah. mostly standard bessie, but seemed a little defensive me and LG were agreeing with BF calling her scum. slightly townie

BoomFrog- the Oracle, 2nd win difficult and might be anti town, says bessie is scum, then later switches to saying she's town (btw, this is what I expect a planned reaction trap to look like), accuses Sabrar of role-fishing, looks like he thinks mpolo is town. town

heury- rv Madge, speculates boring 8-3 setup, setup spec is townie behavior, likes conditions for more content, unvotes, bessie and BF as town.

Well if mafia has day chat, I don't think Boomfrog and moody are scum buddies.


Kind of weird thing to assume given there has been less than a quarter of games have had this (don't have the numbers immediately at hand), volunteers to get a "present" from Madge. town

LaserGuy- votes bessie based on her reaction to BF, says to ignore Sabrar's power comment, heury and mpolo townie, also Mark, with a small expansion on his heury read when prompted by Sabrar, simultaneously rationalizing and doubling-down on bessie vote, pokes Madge on her Sabrar vote, Sabrar too reserved, switches vote to Madge (unofficially, since he didn't unvote). slightly scummy

Madge- unambiguous "bessie's town", votes Sabrar, no value in setup spec, hedges wrt bessie, has something to do with her and Sabrar's reads being entangled, offers a present. She's doing a good job as SDK, because I don't know what's going on with her.

Mark- tries to decode the oracle, some rules confusion, some role and setup spec, response to Vicarin about bessie reads her as town, response to bessie re BF being the oracle, foses wam over lack of content. slightly townie

mpolo- suspects he might be a miller, 2nd win difficult, setup spec with more than one anti-town, likes Mark's content, in character hypothesis for BF being oracular, spec on the pick your Ajah nature, which is refuted by bessie and also refutes his hypothesis. slightly townie for now, but that miller thing might be something to keep an eye on late game.

Sabrar- invites targeting for 2nd win condition, says not PGO :?, some setup spec, rv LaserGuy, points Mark to bessie getting his point, unvotes, pokes LG on his town reads, decides anyone who didn't pick up on his math error is maybe scum, compliments Madge on SDK-play, short reads of people, votes Vicarin, calls LG town for his Madge vote. not getting a strong read on him.

Vicarin- flavor blind, and unsure on possible setup spec. rv Madge, balance issues with the 7 and singles setup, several questions, switches vote to BF for being oracular (which is a very petty reason). doesn't like wam's only post, returns to setup spec, seems very eager over his 2nd win condition, newer player may not read over rules as well, scum more picky, basically doesn't buy everyone's town!Mark read. My hypothesis is his secondary win is as a lyncher, and he's trying to find out if it's pro- or anti- town by getting a good read on his target. Otherwise I'm feeling a little uncomfortable with Vicarin; slightly scummy

wam- first post says he's okay with other people's setup spec, upset by people taking advantage of previously mentioned away time. insufficient data.
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby bessie » Sat Jul 28, 2018 4:46 pm UTC

Vicarin wrote:You don't remember me asking questions? Huh? :P
I’m not referring to your questions. I’m referring to statements and observations you’ve made, and amended with a question mark to indirectly fish for opinions of others, and also to make your remarks non committal. Some examples:
Vicarin wrote:Given the crazy setup that was WoT2 I'm not entirely sure what the numbers could be, but Sabrar's numbers seem not too crazy?
Vicarin wrote:Main issue I would have with 7-1-1-1-1 would be how the setup would be ridiculously difficult to balance, for most choices of scum roles. As I said , most of the other setups seem somewhat workable?
Vicarin wrote:Wanted to get some conversation going seeing as it was pretty slow when I woke up, and I need some information really, really fast for my secondary wincon. You got a better way of getting information about specific people?
Vicarin wrote:I'd normally say that for a newer player that it would just mean that they're not used to examining all the rules in detail. Don't think it's terribly indicative overall?
None of these are actual questions, but they are an invitation to offer information, without appearing to do so. In other words, fishing.


Vicarin wrote:Seeing as I'll just be accused by you of fishing for the ENTIRE game if I don't nip this in the bud, fine, I need information about wam's alignment by the end of the day preferably. However, he's not here right now, which is really damn annoying for trying to get any information out of him or about him, so whatever. It does seem rather hard to pull off in general in any case.
I’m sure most of us do not know wam’s alignment, but would like to know wam’s alignment. That’s sorta why we’re all here. Most of us want to discover everyone else’s alignment, and we will spend the next month unraveling this puzzle. Figuring out other’s alignments is directly related to most players’ primary win conditions. You’re focused on what is allegedly your secondary win condition, and you’re using it as an excuse not to put work toward the town primary win condition. This is why you have my vote.


moody7277 wrote:speculation of reasons given in response to Madge look weighted on her being antagonistic
Woof? And how is this woof woof indicative?

moody7277 wrote: mostly standard bessie, but seemed a little defensive me and LG were agreeing with BF calling her scum.
So to confirm, when you made this post, you agreed with BoomFrog scum read of me?

moody7277 wrote:switches vote to Madge (unofficially, since he didn't unvote)
Hahaha, I totally I totally missed this. I guess I didn’t read the rules carefully enough. Vicarin, does this make me town or is it acceptable due to my newbieness?

moody7277 wrote:My hypothesis is his secondary win is as a lyncher, and he's trying to find out if it's pro- or anti- town by getting a good read on his target.
I would be seriously disappointed in the mods if this was a secondary win condition (see #4 in the list in this post). I think it’s Vicarin's primary win condition.

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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby heuristically_alone » Sat Jul 28, 2018 5:20 pm UTC

moody7277 wrote:BoomFrog- the Oracle, 2nd win difficult and might be anti town

Just pointing out that I thought Boomfrog said for sure he win condition is anti-town

moody7277 wrote:
Well if mafia has day chat, I don't think Boomfrog and moody are scum buddies.


Kind of weird thing to assume given there has been less than a quarter of games have had this (don't have the numbers immediately at hand), volunteers to get a "present" from Madge. town

It's clear that I am making no assumption. Just taking note.

For meta reasons I am leaning moody slightly scum. Not confident enough to vote though.
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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby LaserGuy » Sat Jul 28, 2018 5:32 pm UTC

Oops.

Unvote
Vote Madge

Also pretty sure jimbob modslipped scum have daychat.

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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby BoomFrog » Sat Jul 28, 2018 5:45 pm UTC

Vicarin wrote:Seeing as I'll just be accused by you of fishing for the ENTIRE game if I don't nip this in the bud, fine, I need information about wam's alignment by the end of the day preferably. However, he's not here right now, which is really damn annoying for trying to get any information out of him or about him, so whatever. It does seem rather hard to pull off in general in any case.

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Why do you listen to the lies?
Abandon your secondary desires or you will lose all.
A house divided cannot stand.
This path leads to your death.
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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby Sabrar » Sat Jul 28, 2018 5:49 pm UTC

heuristically_alone wrote:For meta reasons I am leaning moody slightly scum. Not confident enough to vote though.
Why the reservation? moody clearly gave himself away and will be our D2 lynch.

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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby BoomFrog » Sat Jul 28, 2018 5:55 pm UTC

heuristically_alone wrote:
moody7277 wrote:BoomFrog- the Oracle, 2nd win difficult and might be anti town

Just pointing out that I thought Boomfrog said for sure he win condition is anti-town

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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby heuristically_alone » Sat Jul 28, 2018 5:57 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
heuristically_alone wrote:For meta reasons I am leaning moody slightly scum. Not confident enough to vote though.
Why the reservation? moody clearly gave himself away and will be our D2 lynch.

Then why wait til d2?
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Re: Wheel of Time 3 - A Divided Sisterhood (D1)

Postby Sabrar » Sat Jul 28, 2018 6:01 pm UTC

Because I'm not sure people will see the evidence the same way I do D1.


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