Wams chaos game day 5

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Sabrar
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Re: Wams chaos game day 1

Postby Sabrar » Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:44 am UTC

Vicarin wrote:@Sabrar: how are you dead N1?
Because there is nothing in my role that would suggest that I would survive the nk. Honestly, after last game I wouldn't have expected that question coming from you.

Listen to this man. Those were my thoughts as well why mpolo's first reasoning looked fishy. The one afterwards just consolidated my read.

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Re: Wams chaos game day 1

Postby Vicarin » Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:55 am UTC

@Sabrar: Was there anything in your role last game that would suggest that you'd survive the NK? You're still claiming that you're a Traitor right now, right?

I do agree that mpolo isn't looking great though, the "2 scum claims -> multiple scum factions" logic doesn't make that much sense to me. Especially since a Jester doesn't really count as a faction in of itself to me.

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Re: Wams chaos game day 1

Postby Sabrar » Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:12 am UTC

No there wasn't and no I'm not Traitor. Was fun though pretending. Sorry BoomFrog, you're alone in this.

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Re: Wams chaos game day 1

Postby Sabrar » Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:34 am UTC

There comes a time in everyone's life when they choose stasis or they choose to grow.

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Re: Wams chaos game day 1

Postby Vicarin » Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:36 am UTC

Is that a request for people to jump on a mpolo bandwagon with you or something?

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Re: Wams chaos game day 1

Postby Sabrar » Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:42 am UTC

Seeing that he's scum, obviously.

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Re: Wams chaos game day 1

Postby bessie » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:17 am UTC

Vicarin wrote:
bessie wrote:Hmmmm, lyncher?

You'll always assume that a lyncher exists, eh?
It’s a good anti-claim mechanic, and I would guess there is an anti-claim mechanic in the game.

Vicarin wrote:
bessie wrote: If BoomFrog is pulling a gambit, what are you going to do, vote for him? :roll:

Hell yeah :D
Why are you anti-BoomGambit?

Madge wrote:vote: bessie

clearly not on my side, SHE WILL GO INTO THE DEPTHS OF HELL

that said, I want Bessie, BoomFrog, Sabrar to survive as long as possible as I most trust their abilities to make sense of things, and this game will need a LOT of sense made of it, I can already tell.
1. How do you know whether or not I’m not on your side? Do you already know the names of all your teammates?
2. I’m already in the depths of hell, we’re being audited this month.
3. If you want me to survive as long as possible you have a weird way of showing it.

plytho wrote:
bessie wrote:If Sabrar is “just anti-town”, then there must be a town faction. This makes me think Sabrar is “full scum”.
Can you explain your reasoning? Do you think Sabrar is mafia instead of a different kind of scum? Why?
Because I thought it was interesting that Sabrar was agreeing with BoomFrog that there may not be a town faction, then he claimed to be anti-town so if he’s scum he knows there’s a town faction, and no now I see where I flipped what I was thinking in my head.

mpolo wrote:So, I agree that there can be no truly independent factions that are not anti-town. Which makes me wonder about Sabrar's claim: since he can't win with town, town has no reason to keep him alive. Since he is threatening to out the mafia, the mafia has no reason to keep him alive. Therefore, Sabrar is either a jester of some sort, or has made a grave miscalculation. Given that it is Sabrar, the former seems more likely. Since there is chaos, what I don't know is whether we should lynch him or let the mafia night-kill him in order to thwart his win.
There is so much wrong with this. If Sabrar is jester, why would town want to waste a lynch on him? If Sabrar is traitor, why would we leave him to mafia to “night kill” when they could recruit him? Why would mafia kill a jester, or why would they kill a traitor which is even more ridiculous?

And re the underlined, even the great Sabrar can make the occasional miscalculation, and I find that remark. . . interesting.

somitomi wrote:Okay, things I'd like to know in no particular order:
  • what is Sabrar up to? I know being cocky and confusing early D1 is NAI for him, but I want to know anyway
  • why did BF claim scum right away?
  • why are D1 town claims suspicious?
  • what's a convertible survivor?
  • what's a night-jester?
  • why is mark townie based on zero posts?
1. Don’t know yet. SabrarGambit? Why should BoomFrog have an exclusive?
2. Because he’s BoomFrog.
3. Any claims are suspicious.
4. I’m assuming he meant a role that will join a faction if something happens, and must join a faction to win.
5. Needs to be night killed to win.
6. He’s not anything yet.

Oh, wait, Mark posted.

Mark_Cangila wrote:Late confirm. Didn't actually check for a while. Sorry. Also, my mind is already a pile of melted goo.
Yes so is mine. But you now have several games mafia experience so you should be able to post something, and we need content from you. Since the game is only going to get longer and more confusing, I suggest you start now while we’re only on page 2. Why don’t you read through the thread and type up your thoughts as you go along, and just post whatever you have?

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Re: Wams chaos game day 1

Postby plytho » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:22 am UTC

Vicarin, why are you dodging questions?

Sabrar wrote:Was fun though pretending.
What was fun about it?

I'm happy keeping my vote where it is.
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Re: Wams chaos game day 1

Postby Vicarin » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:31 am UTC

bessie wrote:Why are you anti-BoomGambit?


Mostly because I've been pretty unimpressed by their effectiveness (last game might be a decent example :P), and they act as huge distractions.

plytho wrote:Vicarin, why are you dodging questions?


Wait, which ones? The single question that you asked about gambits?

Well, I don't think gambits have much value if the point of the gambit is discernible by other people, which generally reserves their use to scum trying to spill wine all over the place.

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Re: Wams chaos game day 1

Postby Sabrar » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:41 am UTC

plytho wrote:What was fun about it?
Chaos is a ladder. The climb is all there is.

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Re: Wams chaos game day 1

Postby plytho » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:53 am UTC

Vicarin wrote:
plytho wrote:Vicarin, why are you dodging questions?

Wait, which ones? The single question that you asked about gambits?

You also ignored Boomfrog's gambit question.
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Re: Wams chaos game day 1

Postby Vicarin » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:58 am UTC

Hmmmm, I'd actually been wondering if that was more directed at bessie seeing as I hadn't actually said gambit in my post. Ok, I'd define a gambit as an action or behavior chosen to try to cause a specific response or gain information, which is mainly effective when people don't understand the gambit's purpose.

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Re: Wams chaos game day 1

Postby mpolo » Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:32 am UTC

My logic here is that town CANNOT win with a jester alive as I read the rules. Therefore the jester is an alternate faction as far as this game is concerned. It wouldn't surprise me if a jester winning ended the game with this setup. That fact may make it unfair for there to be a jester at all, so maybe we have to take Sabrar and Boomfrog's statements that they are not town as jokes.

For the record, I am town. (Obviously the claim doesn't mean much, as it is the default claim, but since other people seem unwilling to say it, I will. I hope that doesn't mean that town is a minority, which would certainly be chaotic.)
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Re: Wams chaos game day 1

Postby Sabrar » Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:41 am UTC

mpolo wrote:So, I agree that there can be no truly independent factions that are not anti-town. Which makes me wonder about Sabrar's claim: since he can't win with town, town has no reason to keep him alive. Since he is threatening to out the mafia, the mafia has no reason to keep him alive. Therefore, Sabrar is either a jester of some sort, or has made a grave miscalculation. Given that it is Sabrar, the former seems more likely. Since there is chaos, what I don't know is whether we should lynch him or let the mafia night-kill him in order to thwart his win.

mpolo wrote:My logic here is that town CANNOT win with a jester alive as I read the rules. Therefore the jester is an alternate faction as far as this game is concerned. It wouldn't surprise me if a jester winning ended the game with this setup.

So first you speculate that I'm Jester (while not committing to anything wrt BoomFrog) but meanwhile you supposedly also realized that town!you cannot win with me being alive. So now you're considering whether to give me the win right away (which you also think might well end the game immediately) or to let scum nk me (which as others have already pointed out is a very unlikely scenario). These just don't add up.

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Re: Wams chaos game day 1

Postby Madge » Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:09 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:I AM DECLARING AN END TO RVS. BOW TO MY WILL!!

Vote: mpolo


OKAY

vote: mpolo

@bessie: i love you, at least until i decide whether you're town or not

@mpolo: don't take it personally, Sabrar has always said I can sheep him for an easy win, so let's see what happens!
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Re: Wams chaos game day 1

Postby Vicarin » Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:12 am UTC

Hmmmm, how likely is it that there's going to be huge vote shenanigans this game...

Well, that's a 3rd vote for mpolo, and we need 6 to lynch, how safe a margin should we maintain well before the deadline?

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Re: Wams chaos game day 1

Postby plytho » Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:15 am UTC

Isn't it the 4th?

Me, Sabrar, BoomFrog and Madge.
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Re: Wams chaos game day 1

Postby plytho » Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:15 am UTC

Who did you miss?
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Re: Wams chaos game day 1

Postby Vicarin » Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:16 am UTC

Oh, I missed BoomFrog, if he did.

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Re: Wams chaos game day 1

Postby Vicarin » Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:18 am UTC

Right, he switched off me at the end of page 1 and I'd forgotten about it. Hmmmm, I don't know about a 2 vote safety margin seeing as we've still got a few days remaining.

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Re: Wams chaos game day 1

Postby plytho » Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:23 am UTC

Hmm..
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Re: Wams chaos game day 1

Postby Sabrar » Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:43 am UTC

Madge wrote:@mpolo: don't take it personally, Sabrar has always said I can sheep him for an easy win, so let's see what happens!
This feels lazy and avoiding responsibility.

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Re: Wams chaos game day 1

Postby Sabrar » Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:49 am UTC

plytho wrote:Hmm..
Are you commenting here on Vicarin?

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Re: Wams chaos game day 1

Postby moody7277 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 12:50 pm UTC

As much as it pains me to agree with an almost self-admitted jester, I am noticing the same weirdness that Sabrar is pointing out. Saying that the game might end if the jester wins is ignoring the plethora of other threats that are out there. Putting him in the votable pile as of right now.

Sabrar wrote:
Madge wrote:@mpolo: don't take it personally, Sabrar has always said I can sheep him for an easy win, so let's see what happens!

This feels lazy and avoiding responsibility.


Isn't that the whole point of sheeping?
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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Re: Wams chaos game day 1

Postby heuristically_alone » Thu Sep 06, 2018 12:53 pm UTC

Vicarin wrote:
heuristically_alone wrote: Was the town win condittion initially included in the OP? Because if not I'd bet Vicarin is scum.


Despite this being somewhat irrelevant seeing as the wincon was there, I'd like to know what your logic for that step is...

I just get uncomfortable with players that are oubkically inferring they know the town wincon.

Sabrar wrote:
somitomi wrote:So, should we spare you from suffering and lynch you right away?
I'm dead N1 anyway so it wouldn't make much of a difference.

Has there been a game you haven't stated this?

I am town. I feel like it is most beneficial if you are town to claim that now. Indies are the most likely to not claim. Scum may not claim to appear like indies. First impression are that somi and plytho are not scummates. I'm banking on somy and indie right now.
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Re: Wams chaos game day 1

Postby plytho » Thu Sep 06, 2018 12:58 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
plytho wrote:Hmm..
Are you commenting here on Vicarin?
Yes.

heuristically_alone wrote: I'm banking on somy and indie right now.
I can't figure out what that's supposed to be.
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Re: Wams chaos game day 1

Postby heuristically_alone » Thu Sep 06, 2018 12:59 pm UTC

Edit: I'm banking on somi being indie.
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Re: Wams chaos game day 1

Postby wam » Thu Sep 06, 2018 1:05 pm UTC

votals
Plytho - 1 - Moody7277
Mpolo - 4 - Plytho, boomfrog, sabrar, Madge
Vicarin - 1 - Somitomi,
Boomfrog - 1 - vicarin
Not voting: heuristically_alone, bessie, mpolo, Mark_Cangila

Not playing day 1: jimbobmacdoodle
6 to lynch.
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Re: Wams chaos game day 1

Postby moody7277 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 1:07 pm UTC

@h_a: No inferring to be done, it's right there in black and white:

The OP wrote:Town Win Con

You are town, you win when town is the only faction remaining


Unvote
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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Re: Wams chaos game day 1

Postby Sabrar » Thu Sep 06, 2018 1:11 pm UTC

moody7277 wrote:Isn't that the whole point of sheeping?
Sheeping is occasionally fine, provided you have other content as well.

heuristically_alone wrote:Has there been a game you haven't stated this?
Yes, if we're talking about stating it publicly. No, if it's about internal feelings.

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Re: Wams chaos game day 1

Postby plytho » Thu Sep 06, 2018 1:20 pm UTC

moody7277 wrote:@h_a: No inferring to be done, it's right there in black and white:
Heury was talking about a hypothetical situation where the town wincon wasn't in the op when Vicarin mentioned it. (he wasn't sure when he asked his question)
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Re: Wams chaos game day 1

Postby plytho » Thu Sep 06, 2018 2:10 pm UTC

Some thoughts:

bessie: off to a good start, prodding some people, in conflict with Madge, coaching Mark. Standard bessie. Skipped a step in her reasoning re-Sabrar, but don't think it's a slip. In fact it may indicate a townie nonchalance.

BoomFrog: claims scum, pushes people to claim their alignment, votes mpolo for being boring. Pretty normal hard-to-read BoomFrog behavior. I think a town-BoomFrog gambit is more likely than him telling the truth. I doesn't look like he's playing a tricky role.

heuristically_alone: One post about vicarin being scum in a hypothetical situation, I don't see why. Needs to fix the emoticon in his signature. [edit:explained reasoning on Vicarin to my satisfaction, claimed town, wants everyone to claim]

Madge: avatar looks different? I think? Pretty similar, recognisably Madge but still, different. I enjoyed her confirmation post [hmm, where's bessie's analysis?] I have no idea who Madge is roleplaying but her voting behaviour is very un-Madge.

Mark: 1 post, no content

moody: votes me. 2 setup specs, both involving jesters. Implies he might be scum:
moody7277 wrote:If we lean toward BoomFrog's theory,

There's no reason for town to lean that way. Thinks Sabrar is actually traitor again. Isn't the first with a reads list.

mpolo: The odd thing about mpolo's first post is that he doesn't seem to consider town!Sabrar at all. The options he sees are traitor, making a grave miscalculation, or jester trying to get lynched. The odd thing about his second post is this bit of logic:
mpolo wrote:With the number of people claiming to be non-town, it's pretty clear that there are multiple factions.
I don't see why one implies the other. It's chaos, that's why multiple factions are likely. Not because of some claims realy D1. This feels like mpolo justifying his knowledge of multiple factions by pointing out public evidence.

Sabrar: Claims traitor. Moves out of RVS and sillyness with some strong points and a vote on mpolo. Claims not to be a traitor. I like where Sabrar is at and it kind of feels like mpolo took his bait.

Somitomi: Didn't notice BoomFrog claiming scum but did notice it in Boom's next post. Odd. Has a bunch of questions. Doesn't want to claim.

Vicarin: Straightforward with the BoomFrog vote. Prodding mpolo on number of factions. (I personally do consider jesters and other independants to be seperate factions) Explains why he doesn't like gambits after getting prodded. Didn't notice BoomFrog moving his vote from him to mpolo. Which is a bit odd because I feel people are generally aware who's voting them.

A very preliminary attempt to sort:

plytho
Sabrar
Bessie

BoomFrog
Heuristically_alone
Jimbobmacdoodle
Mark
Somitomi
Madge

Vicarin
moody
mpolo
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Re: Wams chaos game day 1

Postby Sabrar » Thu Sep 06, 2018 2:21 pm UTC

plytho raises a good point wrt moody however calling bessie's content 'standard' is imo a bit premature at the moment. Also why do you think that BoomFrog doesn't have a tricky role?

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Re: Wams chaos game day 1

Postby Vicarin » Thu Sep 06, 2018 2:28 pm UTC

@plytho: Eh, I did notice BoomFrog moving his vote off me, I just clearly wasn't paying enough attention as to where it ended up. But fair enough. I like that reads list overall, actually.

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Re: Wams chaos game day 1

Postby Mark_Cangila » Thu Sep 06, 2018 2:47 pm UTC

mpolo wrote:My logic here is that town CANNOT win with a jester alive as I read the rules. Therefore the jester is an alternate faction as far as this game is concerned. It wouldn't surprise me if a jester winning ended the game with this setup. That fact may make it unfair for there to be a jester at all, so maybe we have to take Sabrar and Boomfrog's statements that they are not town as jokes.


Vote: Mpolo
This post is very suspicious. Wam has said every faction can win, and even though it is high bastardy I highly doubt he would make it so some faction couldn't win. Mpolo says there is a chance jester winning could end the game. Therefore, he is saying there is a chance town could not win. Now, if he was town, he would not say that, as he would know town exists, and that they must be able to win. Therefore, he must either
A. Believe there is no Jester, and is town
or
B. Believe there is no town, and is scum
Now, he would not talk about Sabrar's claim if the case was A. Therefore the case must be B. And since town would not believe there was no town, Mpolo is scum.

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Re: Wams chaos game day 1

Postby plytho » Thu Sep 06, 2018 2:51 pm UTC

Unvote:mpolo

L-1 is too close to my liking :shock:
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Re: Wams chaos game day 1

Postby Vicarin » Thu Sep 06, 2018 2:55 pm UTC

Goddamn it Mark this has happened before...

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Re: Wams chaos game day 1

Postby Mark_Cangila » Thu Sep 06, 2018 2:58 pm UTC

Shoot, my mistake, sorry.

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Re: Wams chaos game day 1

Postby plytho » Thu Sep 06, 2018 2:59 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:plytho raises a good point wrt moody however calling bessie's content 'standard' is imo a bit premature at the moment. Also why do you think that BoomFrog doesn't have a tricky role?
I think I figured BoomFrog would be a little more low key if he had a tricky role. I associate a tricky role with careful play and BoomFrog seems anything but careful. I called bessie's content standard because her opening posts sound like every opening post she makes it's a pretty neutral assessment.
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Re: Wams chaos game day 1

Postby BoomFrog » Thu Sep 06, 2018 3:00 pm UTC

plytho is paying attention. I like that plytho. I missed you. I agree with everything he said, although I'd put Mark and Vic lower on their sections.

mpolo and moody took me too seriously but I think at least moody was genuinely concerned that town was a minority.

@Vic A) Bessie's analysis last game did show that my shenanigans do reveal tells, however I do often misread the tells. I think you don't understand how little conctent there often is D1. Wine is better than nothing.

B) Regardless, do you really think that me pulling a gambit indicates that I am scum? I was expecting a frustration vote from you but you've let it linger too long. And as last game shows, not thinking through the implications of you stated position is a scum tell for you.

Unvote
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