Wams chaos game day 5

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Sabrar
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Re: Wams chaos game day 1

Postby Sabrar » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:40 am UTC

plytho wrote:Mark feels like Mark from previous games.
I don't like the plural here. Mark had 3 games so far (please correct me if I'm wrong):
Alien Warfare: Mark was scum so plytho has no reason to townread him for similar content/vibe.
Meta Mafia: both plytho and Mark were town, this is reasonable
Wheel of Time 3: Mark was town but plytho didn't play and he said here that he only checked feedback from this.

@plytho: could you elaborate on how Mark this game felt like his previous games?

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Re: Wams chaos game day 2

Postby Sabrar » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:59 am UTC

@bessie: I'm really interested in your update read on plytho.

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Re: Wams chaos game day 2

Postby wam » Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:33 am UTC


Votals

Sabrar - 1 - Madge

Not Voting: Hueristically Alone, Sabrar, Moody7277, Plytho, Boomfrog (Conman), Jimbobmacdoodle, Bessie, Somitomi

5 to hammer

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Re: Wams chaos game day 2

Postby Sabrar » Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:58 am UTC

Fascinating how the Gojoe thread is more busy than the actual game itself... :|

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Re: Wams chaos game day 2

Postby Sabrar » Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:50 pm UTC

@moody: in your read-list you had 4 players as "Don't know" but you haven't revisited them later (except for Vicarin where you were asked to do so). Why?

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Re: Wams chaos game day 2

Postby Sabrar » Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:59 pm UTC

Let's play a little game called 'Lynch-All-Lurkers'.

Vote: heuristically_alone

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Re: Wams chaos game day 2

Postby moody7277 » Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:01 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:@moody: in your read-list you had 4 players as "Don't know" but you haven't revisited them later (except for Vicarin where you were asked to do so). Why?


For two of those players it's now moot, Madge I definitely had as votable late D1, and heury I hadn't reviewed to sort him. That list was really early on, and what time I had left was taken up responding to getting drilled by BoomFrog.
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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Re: Wams chaos game day 2

Postby Sabrar » Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:24 pm UTC

It may be moot now but it wasn't so D1. E.g. would have been nice to know your thoughts about Mark before his flip.

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Re: Wams chaos game day 2

Postby Sabrar » Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:41 pm UTC

@jimbob: what was the reason in your opinion to hide the alignments of dead townies, if there is a role/player in the game who will instantly reveal that and who is guaranteed to survive until D2 so information cannot be lost?

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Re: Wams chaos game day 2

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:51 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:@jimbob: what was the reason in your opinion to hide the alignments of dead townies, if there is a role/player in the game who will instantly reveal that and who is guaranteed to survive until D2 so information cannot be lost?
I don't want to answer this too specifically, as it ties into my role, but (aside from causing chaos), I think it might be to prevent the alignment of living players being confirmed later on. For example, if mpolo is not permanently dead, his flip revealing his alignment would mean that when he is brought back to life, his alignment would be already known.
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Re: Wams chaos game day 2

Postby Sabrar » Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:54 pm UTC

Ok, but according to you only townies are hidden so we would already 'know' his alignment. I understand the mechanics behind the decision but I'm not seeing the overall picture if what you say is true.

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Re: Wams chaos game day 2

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:31 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:Ok, but according to you only townies are hidden so we would already 'know' his alignment. I understand the mechanics behind the decision but I'm not seeing the overall picture if what you say is true.
I don't know that only townies are hidden. That's just a guess, that we have no way of backing up at this point. It could be that the reasons for Vicarin's alignment not being revealed and mpolo's not being revealed are completely unrelated. I'm backing down a bit on my earlier point, that no alignment = townie, because the fact that mpolo's name wasn't revealed implies something else is going on with him compared to Vicarin.
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Re: Wams chaos game day 2

Postby moody7277 » Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:48 pm UTC

heury

post 1: confirm
post 2: notices the chaos, thinks Vicarin is scum based off OP misread
post 3: snarks at Sabrar's "I am dead N1" comment, claims town, discounts somi-plytho team
post 4: extends remarks to call somi indie
post 5: loophole in BoomFrog's retraction, upset at mpolo being defeatist, slight town read on Madge, Mark. Vicarin scum.

Nothing yet D2. Never voted D1, skating by on most of the posts. As of now, he is in the votables pile with Madge. She looks like she's decided to be less of a kooky distraction, which is good. Hopefully it's because it is D2 and she doesn't have to complain about D1 any more.
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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Re: Wams chaos game day 2

Postby somitomi » Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:54 pm UTC

bessie wrote:Why do you assume that no mafia teams started with one person?

That's not really a mafia team, is it? Anyway, I didn't mean I actually assume that (the same way I start a proof with "assume the square root of two is rational" without actually believing that for a moment), just commenting on how far fetched that idea sounds, and so the "team is at least 2 people" assumption is probably wrong.
plytho wrote:mafia=night kill, I don't assume mafia C killed one of their own, so I assume they performed the other kill.

Could Mafia C have been redirected to themselves as part of the chaos everyone's so fond of? I know that would mean at least two separate redirects or some global redirect, but we've seen things like that before.
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Re: Wams chaos game day 1

Postby plytho » Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:08 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:@plytho: could you elaborate on how Mark this game felt like his previous games?
Similar content level and style. I'd actually forgotten Mark was scum in alien warfare. The main point of that line was that he didn't look influenced by anyone.
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Re: Wams chaos game day 2

Postby plytho » Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:16 pm UTC

somitomi wrote:Could Mafia C have been redirected to themselves as part of the chaos everyone's so fond of? I know that would mean at least two separate redirects or some global redirect, but we've seen things like that before.
Is your point that I shouldn't jump to conclusions in this chaotic game? Because I know that, I'm just trying to occam's razor some of this stuff to make sense of it.
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Re: Wams chaos game day 2

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:31 pm UTC

Idle setup speculation whilst I'm thinking about it: I could see there being three scum teams of two, each with a kill. To make up for this, town have multiple protective roles and at least one resurrection ability, that can only resurrect night kills. Scum and lynched players can't be resurrected, hence why we've seen the flips the way we have (plus my additional info previously mentioned, explaining Vicarin's flip). In this situation, last night, one scum team targeted BoomFrog and was redirected (or BoomFrog was bus driven), and a second team targeted Mark. The third targeted a protected player.

Don't think I said this already: I think mpolo was town. I feel like scum!mpolo wouldn't give up so early and easily. I don't remember the case on him, but I don't remember feeling like it was that strong a case either.
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Re: Wams chaos game day 2

Postby somitomi » Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:36 pm UTC

plytho wrote:
somitomi wrote:Could Mafia C have been redirected to themselves as part of the chaos everyone's so fond of? I know that would mean at least two separate redirects or some global redirect, but we've seen things like that before.
Is your point that I shouldn't jump to conclusions in this chaotic game? Because I know that, I'm just trying to occam's razor some of this stuff to make sense of it.

Not really, more along the lines of this:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote: Just bringing this up so that we don't all tunnel on the one idea.
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Re: Wams chaos game day 2

Postby plytho » Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:45 pm UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:I feel like scum!mpolo wouldn't give up so early and easily. I don't remember the case on him, but I don't remember feeling like it was that strong a case either.
Do you expect town!mpolo to give up easily?

The case was very low content + defeatism. There was some jester speculation which was declared moot and defeatism. Only in his latest post did he post an opinion on anyone. Do you think that's townie behavior? (I mean, it could be but I think it's unlikely)

Also three teams is quite possible but two teams + indies is possible as well imo.
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Re: Wams chaos game day 2

Postby plytho » Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:48 pm UTC

somitomi wrote:
plytho wrote:Is your point that I shouldn't jump to conclusions in this chaotic game? Because I know that, I'm just trying to occam's razor some of this stuff to make sense of it.

Not really, more along the lines of this:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote: Just bringing this up so that we don't all tunnel on the one idea.
Yeah that was actually more self reflection than a response to you. :D
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Re: Wams chaos game day 2

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:10 pm UTC

plytho wrote:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:I feel like scum!mpolo wouldn't give up so early and easily. I don't remember the case on him, but I don't remember feeling like it was that strong a case either.
Do you expect town!mpolo to give up easily?
Not really, but I think it's more likely than scum!mpolo giving up this way. Likeliest would be indie!mpolo, mind you. The reason I think scum is least likely to give up easily in this situation is because they (usually) have team-mates, and since there is day chat, they can gee each other up, as needed. This might not be the case if his buddy is missing/very weak, but I still think it's less likely from scum.
plytho wrote:The case was very low content + defeatism. There was some jester speculation which was declared moot and defeatism. Only in his latest post did he post an opinion on anyone. Do you think that's townie behavior? (I mean, it could be but I think it's unlikely)
Didn't he get attacked for this with several days to go though? Maybe I'm misremembering the timeline, but I don't feel like low content early D1 is particularly scummy - I'm not saying it's townie, I just don't think it implies scum in the early game. Low content accusations could certainly be directed at several other players too in that time period.

Maybe I'm misinterpreting things, but I feel like your tone in the last question here is rather off. It's incredibly leading. IGMEOY plytho.
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Re: Wams chaos game day 2

Postby plytho » Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:23 pm UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Maybe I'm misremembering the timeline, but I don't feel like low content early D1 is particularly scummy - I'm not saying it's townie, I just don't think it implies scum in the early game. Low content accusations could certainly be directed at several other players too in that time period.

In my mind mpolo started off getting into the jester stuff, got called on it and then went into defeatism instead of talking about people. That's what bugged me about him as I felt I had absolutely no idea about his opinions at that point. Others had low content but there was content at least. Mpolo read to me like he talked about jester, then retracted it, sort of rendering his content null. I expect better from mpolo.

I personally think he was more likely indie than scum than town. I'm a little surprised by your town read, hence my question.

Right, I'm a little drunk and won't be posting until tomorrow probably.
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Re: Wams chaos game day 2

Postby Sabrar » Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:27 pm UTC

plytho wrote:I'd actually forgotten Mark was scum in alien warfare.
I'm not sure if I believe this. Also when I first read this post I got the distinct impression that its tone was defensive.
OTOH I don't agree with jimbob's reason for the IGMEOY, I think he is actually misremembering/misrepresenting things and plytho's portrayal of happenings is more accurate. And I find jimbob's retraction here suspicious. Therefore using my established meta-read on him I'm pretty confident jimbob is town. :lol:

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Re: Wams chaos game day 2

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:32 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:OTOH I don't agree with jimbob's reason for the IGMEOY, I think he is actually misremembering/misrepresenting things and plytho's portrayal of happenings is more accurate.
My IGMEOY has nothing to do with the events of D1. It is entirely because of plytho's tone when questioning me. I don't dispute the events of D1, although maybe my interpretation of how suspicious things were may vary.
Sabrar wrote:And I find jimbob's retraction here suspicious.
What about it was suspicious? As noted, I missed the details of mpolo's flip, and my information is in relation to Vicarin, from which I inferred information about mpolo, which I've since changed my opinion on, because mpolo's flip was different to Vicarin's - I believe the two of them had different reasons for not flipping their alignment.

plytho wrote:Others had low content but there was content at least.
What were Madge's, Mark's and heuristically_alone's content at this point? (Note to self: when more awake and have more time, go back and review D1 in more depth).
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Re: Wams chaos game day 2

Postby Madge » Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:10 pm UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Madge's voting pattern feels weird. I suspect she might not entirely have control of her vote. Did Madge have a vote down for the entirety of D1? If she's not forced into voting this way, I don't understand her vote on Sabrar, and in particular why she still has it down now that he's explained the "slip" she's voting him for.

@Madge: why are you voting Sabrar? In particular, if you think bessie and Sabrar are buddies, why are you voting him and not bessie?


Good point!

unvote

vote: bessie


I don't have any voting related power or restriction, though.

Why do we think alignments are being hidden?

1) Janitor role - would we really have two, though? And would they janitor their NK target since we know they're probably town? Or does one of the mafia have a "janitorial kill" that is forced?
2) CHAOS: Say 50% chance of any alignment being revealed
3) Directly tied in with resurrection power which we can be pretty sure exists (if your alignment is revealed you can't be resurrected)
4) ?? something I haven't thought of

I think there's no reason resurrections can't happen from people who have flipped town already, with them being resurrected with some "other" alignment. Like, "mpolo has been resurrected. his alignment has been determined CHAOTICALLY", sort of thing

moody7277 wrote:Hopefully it's because it is D2 and she doesn't have to complain about D1 any more.

oh I have PLENTY to complain about but i'm going to be quiet because nobody cares :lol:. Trying to focus on being helpful. and having some chaotic fun, but hopefully not too much.
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Re: Wams chaos game day 2

Postby ConMan » Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:42 pm UTC

It's worth noting that no-one in this thread until Plytho had seriously considered the possibility that the night kill redirected from BoomFrog was the one that killed Mark, rather than mpolo. Sabrar first put out his theory, and everyone went with it.

Vote Sabrar

FoS everyone else who jumped on that bandwagon
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Re: Wams chaos game day 2

Postby Sabrar » Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:55 am UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:What about it was suspicious?
Because you started out with a pretty strong opinion about it:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:2) I think mpolo and Vicarin were town, and town's alignment is not revealed on death. I have evidence relating partly to this in my role,
and no new evidence was brought forward for you to change your mind.

@ConMan: could you explain your logic there? Killing Mark directly makes a lot more sense as he was town-read by several people, while mpolo could have been lynched today. I'm suspicious for suggesting a scenario that fits Occam's razor? Why do you think the redirect killed Mark?

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Re: Wams chaos game day 2

Postby plytho » Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:22 am UTC

ConMan wrote:It's worth noting that no-one in this thread until Plytho had seriously considered the possibility that the night kill redirected from BoomFrog was the one that killed Mark, rather than mpolo.
Pretty sure somitomi was the one considering that.
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Re: Wams chaos game day 2

Postby plytho » Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:51 am UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:
plytho wrote:Others had low content but there was content at least.
What were Madge's, Mark's and heuristically_alone's content at this point? (Note to self: when more awake and have more time, go back and review D1 in more depth).

If you want I can give you an overview later today but I'm pretty sure I can make a list of X likes/doesn't like Y for [reason] for at least mark and heury, Madge may be slightly trickier but she was voting. For mpolo I had nothing. While, out of those 4 I expect the most from mpolo.
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Re: Wams chaos game day 2

Postby plytho » Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:20 am UTC

request modprod on heuristically_alone
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Re: Wams chaos game day 2

Postby wam » Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:38 am UTC

plytho wrote:request modprod on heuristically_alone


It has been 36 hours since d2 started if they haven't posted within 48 from day start I will prod.
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Re: Wams chaos game day 2

Postby Sabrar » Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:46 am UTC

I support an immediate prod. heury didn't post in the last 24 hours of D1 either and his last post was only due to a mod-prod as well.

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Re: Wams chaos game day 2

Postby wam » Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:50 am UTC

huery has been prodded
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Re: Wams chaos game day 2

Postby ConMan » Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:54 am UTC

plytho wrote:
ConMan wrote:It's worth noting that no-one in this thread until Plytho had seriously considered the possibility that the night kill redirected from BoomFrog was the one that killed Mark, rather than mpolo.
Pretty sure somitomi was the one considering that.

Sorry, yes, I meant somitomi.

@Sabrar: Occam's Razor to discuss the most likely outcome, sure, but it didn't look like the alternative was even briefly mentioned. And, as it turns out, the alternative is the actual case - actions targeting BoomFrog were redirected to Mark_Cangila. This information is part of my N1 results. Do I have more information? Heck yes, but I feel like as a townie I'm greatly in the minority right now and I want to see some more information about what everyone else did.

I will say that I have information on a large number of redirections (looks like somi may have guessed correctly about there being a mass / random redirect). Assuming that this list covers the *only* change of targets in N1 (and I don't have any information on the accuracy of that), then 3 players were effectively untargetable, and 3 players were potentially double-targeted (as in, had two redirects point to them). The N1 deaths were on neither list (so only BoomFrog got redirected to Mark, and only one player got redirected to mpolo), so (again assuming that this set of redirects is final) I know who was actually targeted with the NKs.
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Re: Wams chaos game day 2

Postby bessie » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:01 am UTC

plytho wrote:
bessie wrote:Why do you think Mafia C has been eliminated?
I don't. We know that one member of a mafia (specifically mafia C) has been killed.
Ok that makes more sense. I read that a dozen times as “one less mafia which is Mafia C” and not “one less mafia member from Mafia C”.

plytho wrote:
bessie wrote:Why Mafia C, why not Mafia A/B? Or do you have a reason for suspecting Mark for wanting to kill mpolo?
mafia=night kill, I don't assume mafia C killed one of their own, so I assume they performed the other kill.
Night kills:
Mark_Cangila, Jackie Chan, Mafia C
mpolo, (? role), (?alignment)

Your original quote:
plytho wrote:I'm assuming mafia C killed mpolo (the C might be a red herring btw) an odd target perhaps as he was under pressure and looked quite lynchable. Who gains by killing mpolo?
Why not this:
-Mafia A kills Mark.
-Mafia B kills mpolo.
-Mafia C is roleblocked.
Why didn’t you consider mpolo was killed by Mafia-Not-C? Or do you think mpolo was mafia?

Reference this post.
jimbobmacdoodle wrote: I didn't feel strongly either way about Vicarin when loosely following the thread D1. My belief is largely driven by my PM info. Him being town does give greater weight towards people pushing him being scum, because scum are generally more likely to push town off a cliff than other town, although it obviously doesn't guarantee it. Related aside: I need to look back at the others pushing Vicarin. However, your push was what stood out in my mind the most. This is a weak point, I acknowledge, hence your position as third likeliest currently.
The underlined implies scum knows they are pushing town.
Why would scum know if Vicarin was town?
Why would Vicarin’s alignment make my push on him suspect?

Re this post. Interesting, this argument reminds me of wam in WoT3.

somitomi wrote:
bessie wrote:Why do you assume that no mafia teams started with one person?

That's not really a mafia team, is it? Anyway, I didn't mean I actually assume that (the same way I start a proof with "assume the square root of two is rational" without actually believing that for a moment), just commenting on how far fetched that idea sounds, and so the "team is at least 2 people" assumption is probably wrong.
:roll: Ok. What I should have posted:

Well, if we have Mafia A, Mafia B, Mafia C, we do not know the number of members in each mafia group. Each “mafia” may be a traditional mafia of two or more players, or wam may be using the term “mafia” to represent a faction, so for example, Mafia A may consist of one member with a kill (ehih would usually be an independent serial killer). His reasons for using “mafia” instead of “indie” is either because the lone mafia member has some way to increase their number, or wam could be using the term just to cause confusion. So somitomi, why do assume that no “mafia teams” (read: factions) started with one person?

Reference: Best Idea Mafia. I replaced Vytron. I was mafia goon, all by myself. Setup here (5 town, 2 aliens, 1 mafia).

Madge wrote:3) Directly tied in with resurrection power which we can be pretty sure exists (if your alignment is revealed you can't be resurrected)
I don't see pretty sure at all. However,
Madge wrote:I think there's no reason resurrections can't happen from people who have flipped town already, with them being resurrected with some "other" alignment. Like, "mpolo has been resurrected. his alignment has been determined CHAOTICALLY", sort of thing
I kinda like this idea though.

ConMan wrote: It's worth noting that no-one in this thread until Plytho had seriously considered the possibility that the night kill redirected from BoomFrog was the one that killed Mark, rather than mpolo. Sabrar first put out his theory, and everyone went with it.
What makes you think anyone seriously discarded this theory, or any theory, yet?

Ok, I' think I'm over my my hour for the night, but I wouldn't want Sabrar to think I'm ignoring him.
Sabrar wrote:@bessie: I'm really interested in your update read on plytho.
Last full read of plytho on page 7 (Sunday) here. Did not update my read on page 8 (Sunday night last post of D1), so nothing in his page 7 content pinged me at the time. Have not analyzed page 9 content. Ok go!

http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?p=4389043#p4389043
plytho wrote:Vicarin: A lot of Vicarin's content is his discussion with bessie and the one with Sabrar happening right now. I don't think these discusions indicate scumminess as Vicarin is finding the time to talk about other things. I haven't really followed the argument between him and bessie as I don't think a disagreement about probabilities is indicative of scum either way and probabilities make my head hurt. The current discussion with Sabrar is similar. It's a disagreement about strategy but I don't see the scumminess. I like his reads list, it looks pretty open and honest. (I don't like his attitude towards Madge, she can play the game however she wants, I like the avatar!)

Bessie's arguments against vic aren't convincing me. BoomFrog barely has any. I don't have time to check out Sabrar's arguments but this latest discussion isn't convincing me.]
Hmm, there’s a lot of Vicarin love in that post. If you haven't really followed the arguement, how can you come to the conclusion that my arguments aren't convincing?

http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?p=4389082#p4389082
plytho wrote:Ugh, I'm a little frustrated by my lack of time/clarity right now. Boomfrog's arguments are convincing but I don't entirely agree on point two and three.
I’m not sure which points are point 2 and 3.

http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?p=4389103#p4389103
plytho wrote:
BoomFrog wrote: Oh My God You Suck is the feeling of thinking people who attack you must be scum. It's often not true, and OMGUS is stronger in scum since they have fewer other reasons to find people actually scummy
That's kind of contradictory. Generally scum know the people pressuring them are town so they won't feel like they are being attacked by scum. While town know whoever is attacking them is wrong about them and thus they are at risk of omgus.
Interesting that you jumped in on what was an informational comment BoomFrog made for mark (original post here). I guess I can read it as you were trying to help explain things t a newbie too, but I find it odd because in this case it makes things more confusing because of the chance we were in multiball, and scum could not be sure of the alignment of anyone else.

Hmm, plytho switched his vote to Vicarin when he could have switched to Madge. I wasn’t arround the last 10-12ish hours so I don’t have a good vibe of how the vote was progressing (will try to read timestamps more carefully later).

Note that I did not have time to analyze any other end-of-D1 content that I missed, I only looked at plytho. I will think about this with his D2 content and try to do an updated read of plytho (and of everyone else) but tomorrow, I really need to get some sleep.

Ninja'd by ConMan, probably won't read/reply until tomorrow, it's midnight in California and I need to get up at 6.

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Re: Wams chaos game day 2

Postby Sabrar » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:10 am UTC

@ConMan: You originally claimed only 1 redirection regarding the nk-s. Now you're saying that there was a mass redirection power and no nk-s hit their intended target. Why don't you just reveal your results (without your role) and help investigative roles figure out who they actually targetted instead of being cryptic?

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Re: Wams chaos game day 2

Postby plytho » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:22 am UTC

bessie wrote:Why not this:
-Mafia A kills Mark.
-Mafia B kills mpolo.
-Mafia C is roleblocked.
Why didn’t you consider mpolo was killed by Mafia-Not-C? Or do you think mpolo was mafia?
I'm not saying "not this" I'm saying "more likely that". I had more post but it was eaten.
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Re: Wams chaos game day 2

Postby Sabrar » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:34 am UTC

Madge wrote:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:@Madge: why are you voting Sabrar? In particular, if you think bessie and Sabrar are buddies, why are you voting him and not bessie?

Good point!

unvote

vote: bessie


I don't have any voting related power or restriction, though.

@jimbob: why is bessie a better vote-target than me if we're buddies?
@Madge: same question

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Re: Wams chaos game day 2

Postby plytho » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:52 am UTC

bessie wrote:Hmm, there’s a lot of Vicarin love in that post. If you haven't really followed the arguement, how can you come to the conclusion that my arguments aren't convincing?
The argument I didn't follow was the gambit success rate discussion between you and Vicarin. The arguments that didn't convince me were your arguments for scumreading him. (from this post)

bessie wrote:http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?p=4389082#p4389082
plytho wrote:Ugh, I'm a little frustrated by my lack of time/clarity right now. Boomfrog's arguments are convincing but I don't entirely agree on point two and three.
I’m not sure which points are point 2 and 3.
The ones I'm countering here

bessie wrote:http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?p=4389103#p4389103
plytho wrote:
BoomFrog wrote: Oh My God You Suck is the feeling of thinking people who attack you must be scum. It's often not true, and OMGUS is stronger in scum since they have fewer other reasons to find people actually scummy
That's kind of contradictory. Generally scum know the people pressuring them are town so they won't feel like they are being attacked by scum. While town know whoever is attacking them is wrong about them and thus they are at risk of omgus.
Interesting that you jumped in on what was an informational comment BoomFrog made for mark (original post here). I guess I can read it as you were trying to help explain things t a newbie too, but I find it odd because in this case it makes things more confusing because of the chance we were in multiball, and scum could not be sure of the alignment of anyone else.
It was more than informational. The underlined bit in BoomFrog's post looked like to me like he was trying to influence Mark into a Vicarin vote with a claim I disagreed with.
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Re: Wams chaos game day 2

Postby somitomi » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:53 am UTC

Madge wrote:3) Directly tied in with resurrection power which we can be pretty sure exists (if your alignment is revealed you can't be resurrected)

Why could we be sure about that?
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:2) I think mpolo and Vicarin were town, and town's alignment is not revealed on death. I have evidence relating partly to this in my role, that I'd prefer not to reveal at this time.

ConMan wrote:I will say that I have information on a large number of redirections (looks like somi may have guessed correctly about there being a mass / random redirect). Assuming that this list covers the *only* change of targets in N1 (and I don't have any information on the accuracy of that), then 3 players were effectively untargetable, and 3 players were potentially double-targeted (as in, had two redirects point to them). The N1 deaths were on neither list (so only BoomFrog got redirected to Mark, and only one player got redirected to mpolo), so (again assuming that this set of redirects is final) I know who was actually targeted with the NKs.

Does everyone besides me have strange powers of clairvoyance? :D
bessie wrote::roll: Ok. What I should have posted:

Well, if we have Mafia A, Mafia B, Mafia C, we do not know the number of members in each mafia group. Each “mafia” may be a traditional mafia of two or more players, or wam may be using the term “mafia” to represent a faction, so for example, Mafia A may consist of one member with a kill (ehih would usually be an independent serial killer). His reasons for using “mafia” instead of “indie” is either because the lone mafia member has some way to increase their number, or wam could be using the term just to cause confusion. So somitomi, why do assume that no “mafia teams” (read: factions) started with one person?

I can't phrase this any clearer than "I don't assume that", so I'm not sure what you want from me here. Usually single person factions are called "indies", so "mafia" implies at least two members (but this may not be the case here apparently). That doesn't mean I had any kind of guess as to how many indies and mafia teams there are in the game.
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