Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 6 - Ultimate Mammal Sash Genius

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Vicarin
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby Vicarin » Thu Nov 08, 2018 1:21 am UTC

BoomFrog wrote:Also, what do you think of my read of JimBob's read of moody's read of Mark's question and retraction? :D


You want her to make a read of your read of JimBob's read of moody's (now bessie's) read of Mark's question and retraction, and then you're going to form a bessie read off that?

:lol:

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby BoomFrog » Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:01 am UTC

That's Mafia, baby!
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby Madge » Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:03 am UTC

Votals

plytho - (4) - Zenii, Vicarin, LaserGuy, BoomFrog
BoomFrog - (3) - Mark_Cangila, jimbobmacdoodle, plytho

Not voting: mpolo, somitomi, bessie

Let us know if something is incorrect.

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby Zenii » Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:07 am UTC

BoomFrog wrote:I get that our interaction could be scummates putting on a little play to avoid the "did interact with buddies D1" problem some scum have. But if we are not buddies then I don't see how me being scum gives me the insight needed to make this read. And I don't see how that has any bearing on plytho's alignment if we aren't buddies.
I think there's a decent possibility that you're both scum but not aligned, and that you got caught up in misreading each other. If plytho claims, I'm switching to you without hesitation.

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby Zenii » Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:12 am UTC

Also that vote count is freaking beautiful. Good job guys.

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby Vicarin » Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:21 am UTC

Would you immediately trust a D1 claim from plytho seeing as apparently scum has false claims? Or would you just want BoomFrog to claim as well?

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby Zenii » Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:25 am UTC

I mean if he claims indy. I'd be willing to work with him if so. I just want the truth.

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby BoomFrog » Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:41 am UTC

Zenii wrote:I think there's a decent possibility that you're both scum but not aligned, and that you got caught up in misreading each other. If plytho claims, I'm switching to you without hesitation.

That doesn't make any sense. All your scum evidence is based on me having extra info that let me jerk read plytho, or defending plytho. If we are not aligned he would have happily corrected me about the jerk thing if I was wrong. If we are not aligned scum!me has no reason to try and distract you from his lynch. What info could I possibly have as scum that let me actually jerk read plytho?

I don't think you are considering this hypothetical clearly. If plytho is not my buddy then there only other possibility is that I really read his intention correctly from that tiny sentence.
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby Zenii » Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:48 am UTC

Nope.

mafiaBoom presumed to read plytho's mind. townPlytho would correct mafiaBoom. indyPlytho was afraid to step on toes so mafiaBoom got away with it.

Regarding detraction,

I've been thinking through your asking me about Jim. Boom + Jim makes more sense than Boom + plytho the more that I think about it. You were aware already that I had a town read on Jim, so you asking me about him would likely be so that I could "convince" you to vote plytho > jim.

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby Zenii » Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:53 am UTC

That also aligns with your attempt to draw a plytho/jim connection so jim looks good on what you believe to be a plytho town flip.

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby BoomFrog » Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:02 am UTC

JimBob's reasons for voting me are very manufactured. He's scum regardless of plytho's alignment.

How about if plytho claims believably we pivot to JimBob?
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby Mark_Cangila » Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:57 am UTC

Vicarin wrote:
Mark_Cangila wrote:Also, now, to lynch Boom we would have to put him in L -1 territory, which isn't great due to tie rules.


Why isn't it great due to the tie rules?

Sorry, this was a weird mis wording. The L-1 isn't great bc of self-hammer. The tie rules csuse the need to but him in L-1 territory to get a lynch.

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby Mark_Cangila » Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:57 am UTC

EBWOP put not but

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby BoomFrog » Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:16 am UTC

Zenii wrote:Nope.

mafiaBoom presumed to read plytho's mind. townPlytho would correct mafiaBoom. indyPlytho was afraid to step on toes so mafiaBoom got away with it.

That's evidence that plytho is Indy not evidence that I am scum. Why does me being scum give me this insight?
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby bessie » Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:29 am UTC

Vicarin wrote:@bessie: Hey bessie! Got the Sash? I know you love claiming stuff on D1 and all :P

I'm going to be playing by memory not notes. My understanding of the sash is that it is a second full win to whomever has it at endgame, so the sash holder can't win separately from their faction. I don't see any reason for the sash holder to claim today, it doesn't protect from the kill but may or May not make the sash holder unable to be watched. So I vote for not claiming.

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby bessie » Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:35 am UTC

BoomFrog wrote:
bessie wrote:please point out anything in particular you would like me to respond to.
Which of the two main theories do you find most likely. I correctly read plytho's intent when calling him a jerk, or he and I are scum buddies and put on a little fake back and forth?

Also, what do you think of my read of JimBob's read of moody's read of Mark's question and retraction? :D

The first question I will need to read the thread to answer. The second please link to the post.

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby Zenii » Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:37 am UTC

Hi, town bessie.

BoomFrog wrote:That's evidence that plytho is Indy not evidence that I am scum. Why does me being scum give me this insight?

The premise implies that he is town rather than indy or mafia.
BoomFrog wrote:
plytho wrote:My "indies should claim D1" bit was a cheeky response to Zen's question about making a deal with the indie(s). Given what we know about the sash I'm pretty sure we can't hold up our end of the deal. My simplified version was "indies should claim". As for what would happen: indie claims a useful power, we discuss whether we allow them to prove it or just lynch them right away.

If some indy did take your advise then claimed and got lynched, I expect they would feel betrayed. Obviously this is a game about lying I don't like offering false deals as town. (and even if you are scum, I sense this is a false deal you are offering from your "town perspective".) I guess, I feel it went past cheeky to jerk territory because it could have ended the game bitterly for an indy who thought they could trust town, as a whole, to be honest. I think I see now that you meant it to be obvious sarcasm, but it was easily taken as just confirming Zenii's plan while not intending to keep it.

The part in parentheses here is especially bad because it doesn't make any sense. He'd be a jerk for lying as scum? what?

And the last line: how do you see that it was cheeky when there was nothing in plytho's post to indicate it? plytho lied and you lied about seeing the truth in his lie.

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby Vicarin » Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:47 am UTC

@bessie: The clearest reason (if you don't want to actually read through all the discussion) is that if we all know who has the Sash, we can use all of our powers without worrying that we'll get randomly blocked. In addition, if the Sash moves without the holder dying, we can just kill the new holder for not cooperating with the "don't target the Sash wearer" strategy. Is there any benefit you see to having people waste powers moving the Sash around? Also, why is the Sash holder possibly being unwatchable make it a good idea to not determine who it is?

We've already got No-Sash claims from all but 3 people so voting for not claiming is kinda pointless...

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby bessie » Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:02 am UTC

Not liking wam's confirmation post, to me it feels like a pre excuse for lurking. Confirmation started on Saturday and game was not expected to start until after the weekend anyway, why make a post tat you're too drunk to post on Saturday night, I read his posts and he did use it as an excuse not to post on Sunday when the game did start early. Not impressed with the post he made Monday night, it's a lot of fluff, like zen is zen but not how that is alignment indicative or not, and a setup spec based on flavor.

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby bessie » Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:21 am UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:I've been mulling over LaserGuy's statement about reading Vic very strongly, and it's certainly not unusual for him to make early judgement calls like this based on little information. I think I know the reason why as well - Vicarin's mod questions make little sense coming from scum, and a lot of sense coming from Town.

Not entirely sure, but wasn't one of those questions asked before the role pms went out?

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby BoomFrog » Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:28 am UTC

Zenii wrote:The part in parentheses here is especially bad because it doesn't make any sense. He'd be a jerk for lying as scum? what?
Indy claiming D1 is advantageous to town. He's not "lying" to an Indy as scum to get scum advantage. He was "lying" to indy as town by falsely offering safety. (Lying in quotes because he thought the situation was obvious enough and Indies wouldn't actually claim)

And the last line: how do you see that it was cheeky when there was nothing in plytho's post to indicate it? plytho lied and you lied about seeing the truth in his lie
Context. I know that plytho would analyze the idea more if he actually agreed with it. A short answer from him was cheeky.
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby BoomFrog » Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:50 am UTC

@Bessie: (and mpolo might want to read since he seems to have not followed the original thread very well)
It starts here.
Mark_Cangila wrote:Does everyone have the abity to have the sash?

Mark_Cangila wrote:Madge don't answer my question.

Mark_Cangila wrote:Actually I will just explain now. If Madge says yes,one of two things must be true. Either
A. Everyone is a PR
Or
B. Vanillas can target people.
Scum will know if both scum are PRs tonight, so they can guess all town are PRs. It may actually be better to ask noe, because scum already know to ask it.

moody reacts.
moody7277 wrote:Mark's question and retraction is weird. He's at just the right level of experience that it being a brain fart is a likely possibility. Because of that, I'm not going to assign an alignment lean on it. I like the way Vicarin is pushing him about it.

JimBob votes moody a few posts later.
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Scum: moody (for giving a NAI read on Mark for this "brain fart" - this doesn't seem well thought through)

I declare JimBob scum
BoomFrog wrote:Plytho is a jerk. LaserGuy is scum. Mark is probably indy. JimBob is scum. Vic is town.

and explain later:
BoomFrog wrote:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:@BoomFrog, why am I scum?

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Scum: moody (for giving a NAI read on Mark for this "brain fart" - this doesn't seem well thought through)

Your scum for attacking moody for being moody. Moody is always cautious about reading too much into things like this.

And elaborate:
BoomFrog wrote:
plytho wrote:BoomFrog: ... Only provides reason for Jimbob but I don't think it's a good reason.
Jimbobmacdoodle:... I like his reasoning on Mark and moody. Maybe a little too harsh on moody, though.
moody: the null read on mark is odd. It feels like moody skipped the attempt to read mark and went straight for the null. BoomFrog may call this moody being moody but I'm not sure I agree.

Scum!JimBob isn't going to be blatant, we've seen he's good. Is he being too harsh on moody or not? If he's being too harsh do you think it's because he's scum looking for leverage? Mistakes must be magnified by the skill of the player, otherwise we'd just lynch noobs every day.

And a good time was had by all.
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby Zenii » Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:21 am UTC

BoomFrog wrote:Context. I know that plytho would analyze the idea more if he actually agreed with it. A short answer from him was cheeky.
Spoiler:
Image

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby plytho » Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:46 am UTC

I'm Rosa Diaz.

I'm a one shot vig with a sash cop power that allows me to see when someone last had the sash.

Lynch BoomFrog, I vig his buddy, game over.
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby plytho » Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:53 am UTC

Also I have a busy day today so expect limited short phone posts.
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby Zenii » Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:40 am UTC

@plytho what's your alignment and can you win with us?

@Boom, what do you think about this post:
Vicarin wrote:Moody- pffff, no idea :lol: . He's been saying some weird stuff like assuming Mark is town based off the braim fart, but I don't think it's alignment indicative for moody. Everything else also seems consistent with either scum or town moody.
Also. why'd you ask me to put him in a town block when you knew I was scum reading him at the time?

@vic
Vicarin wrote:I'm not sure where else you'd want me to put moody, given my read of him. I'd mostly put in the line breaks because wam and mpolo were mostly lurking reads and so kind of didn't belong on the scale, but I can see how you'd jump to that conclusion.

Also, I have no idea where you got the idea about me being that attentive to detail. I got lynched in Chaos D1 partially because I was trying to track votes on mpolo and goofed, and people found that somewhat suspicious. Don't know what to tell you except that I misremembered the interaction, mainly because I see Mark's responses as scum indicative, so both NAI and town indicative reads based off them are weird to me.
Why is reading it as NAI weird to you. If reading town into it was weird to you, why do you not feel this way about jimbob who you have as solid town?

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby plytho » Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:45 am UTC

Vicarin wrote:@plytho: what do you think of LaserGuy's revote on you now?

No big change. It was all about the timing of the unvote. Although I do miss some recalibration from LaserGuy.
Zenii wrote:plytho lied
Where did I lie?
Zenii wrote:Also that vote count is freaking beautiful. Good job guys.
This pinged me. Why is that vote count beautiful?

Also a little worried about jimbob's point about BoomFrog "knowing I'm town" as it kind of implies jimbob knows I'm town.

Zenii wrote:@plytho what's your alignment and can you win with us?
Town, yes.
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby Zenii » Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:51 am UTC

plytho wrote:Why is that vote count beautiful?
Spoiler:
http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?p=4247035#p4247035
#HBC | Zyth wrote:Wagons in dgames are good. Voting is good. Not all of us use our votes in the same way, but the majority of us use it as a scum hunting tool, not simply as the mechanic to lynch someone. Pressure (through votes) is good and often gets good Intel on the player being pressured and those joining in on the wagon. Wagon building is good, especially when they are between two alternatives. If one is of alignment_a (presumably town, but could also be indy or another faction) and of alignment_b (presumably mafia), this puts mafia in a position where they have to choose to either bus or risk defending their mate. As boom put it, it's a gold mine for reads.

Because I use my vote as scum hunting tool, it tends to be erratic. As town though, I do my best to land it on scum at the end of the day, which is what matters.

It is also the reason why I built up the Jim wagon near the end of the day. I wanted competing wagons, particularly one that would be difficult to build. You don't get as much from easy wagons, because scum can easily justify joining one or the other. Ryu and Gamma were both really easy alternatives to moody.

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby plytho » Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:53 am UTC

Do you feel like the wagons were difficult to build?
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby Zenii » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:03 am UTC

No, but they're binary and contain at least 1 scum.

Lying was referring to your explanation to Boom about your indies claim comment. There wasn't an ounce of sarcasm.

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby plytho » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:08 am UTC

What do you mean by binary?

Ok, that explains a lot. Sorry, but BoomFrog got it right here.

Do you think I said that with the intent of honoring a deal with an indie?
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby plytho » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:12 am UTC

I feel much better now :D
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby plytho » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:17 am UTC

I also got less paranoid about scum!Zen masterminding all of this. Although the focus on indie lately keeps that pilot light on.
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby Zenii » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:29 am UTC

I'm not talking about whether or not you would uphold the deal. I'm talking about whether or not your comment was sarcastic as you stated here:
Yeah I see your point. I definitely didn't mean for it to look like I was supporting the deal. It was meant to look as silly as "scum should claim", but it still could have tricked an indie. I apologize.
I don't believe it was sarcastic because other people were giving their opinion on it seriously at the time. There's nothing in "I agree indies should claim today." that indicates sarcasm!

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby Vicarin » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:34 am UTC

Zenii wrote:Why is reading it as NAI weird to you. If reading town into it was weird to you, why do you not feel this way about jimbob who you have as solid town?


Because I only really see the alarmed response to his mod question as coming from non-town. He asks a relatively benign question that is almost going to be answered with "yes", seeing how the game has been set up (why on earth would there be someone who wouldn't be able to get the Sash???). However, he freaks out soon afterwards, retracting the question. This behavior combined with him being against the Sash claim on the basis of putting them at risk, before he flip flops on this later once it's clear that most people think as Sash claim is good for town, screams that he's indie trying to fly under the radar to me.

With regards to jimbob, I'm just having to accept that most people are reading Mark as townie from that interaction. Otherwise I'd be scumreading basically everyone off that, apparently. Other than that, jimbob has been saying fairly reasonable things, and his explanations for his reads make sense even if I don't agree with all of them.

I'm guessing you're also not satisfied by plytho's claim by the lack of a vote switch, eh?

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby plytho » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:35 am UTC

Zenii wrote:I'm not talking about whether or not you would uphold the deal. I'm talking about whether or not your comment was sarcastic

Huh, I'm confused now. Me not intending to honor the deal is what makes it sarcastic.
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby Zenii » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:41 am UTC

plytho wrote:
Zenii wrote:I'm not talking about whether or not you would uphold the deal. I'm talking about whether or not your comment was sarcastic

Huh, I'm confused now. Me not intending to honor the deal is what makes it sarcastic.
They're two separate things. One is being dishonest (which I would be fine with since you're screwing over indy not town). The other is that you're joking and not being serious. You said that your post was meant to be a joke. There's nothing in your post to indicate that it was a joke. And it came after a serious response to the question. So I think you're lying.

@vic maybe once I understand the above

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby plytho » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:43 am UTC

Vicarin wrote:I'm guessing you're also not satisfied by plytho's claim by the lack of a vote switch, eh?
Waiting for Zen's comment to make up your mind?
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby Zenii » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:44 am UTC

"I definitely didn't mean for it to look like I was supporting the deal."

is different than

"You're right, I was trying to trick indy"

I think you were doing the latter not the former, but you claimed the former.

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby plytho » Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:01 am UTC

Well, I was doing the former.

Zenii wrote:
plytho wrote:
Zenii wrote:I'm not talking about whether or not you would uphold the deal. I'm talking about whether or not your comment was sarcastic

Huh, I'm confused now. Me not intending to honor the deal is what makes it sarcastic.
They're two separate things. One is being dishonest (which I would be fine with since you're screwing over indy not town). The other is that you're joking and not being serious. You said that your post was meant to be a joke. There's nothing in your post to indicate that it was a joke. And it came after a serious response to the question. So I think you're lying.
I don't see them as separate things. I don't intend to honor the deal so I just sarcastically say indies should claim. It's not dishonest as I'm not pretending I'm going to honor the deal.
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