Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (N5)

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bessie
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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D1)

Postby bessie » Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:29 am UTC

Madge wrote:Don't attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity, bessie!
Stupidity is not a word I associate with you. Not by a long shot. Neither is malice, but that’s not the word I would have chosen. Madge, what’s your opinion of Sabrar’s last post? What do you read in this difference in style?

wam wrote:I would have expected town sabrar to engage with this line. Which I don't think he did unless I missed it.
Um, huh? He went through my list, replied to my points, and failed to note an omission because in my self-aware awesomeness I got them all. You’re answering questions just to make replies, without even analyzing the content.

wam wrote:More a question than a thought " is this normal argument or more?"
Explain this comment. And if this was the question that came to mind when you saw my vote, why not ask it without being prodded?

wam wrote:Also looking back at it, it's very early day 1 for Bessie to be voting. Normally she waits till much later day 1. Don't know if this is AI.
You know, I am almost 100% positive you have tried to throw this same accusation out there and fish for reactions in a previous game, and I replied with this link, but I can’t remember where. Pre-post edit: found it:
bessie wrote:
wam wrote: Just noticed. Bessie that's an early vote day 1 by your standards. Any reason?
Aw wam, and I thought you were reading my posts. See here.
bessie wrote:Vicarin – Indie/scum.

Grrr
Hmmm, I wonder how far back I would need to go to find somewhere I voted early on D1. I’m not sure I have time to go through all my old games. Oh, no, wait, here’s one.
Reinforces the idea that you're not analyzing, you're on autopilot.

wam, you have a couple more unanswered questions from Sabrar directed at you. How about answering them? Reference this post.

Sabrar, will reply to you later, I need to leave soon.

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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D1)

Postby Madge » Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:36 am UTC

By difference in style do you mean the spoilering and structuring? I'm not following. It seems relatively normal sabrar except perhaps for only mentioning a few people and the strange spoiler structure.
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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D1)

Postby plytho » Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:48 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:@plytho: you have good theoretical points. Could you give reads as well? Why have you limited your interactions to mostly SuicideJunkie?
Yeah, sorry. Very busy day. Will provide reads tomorrow. I focused on SuicideJunkie because he was saying scummy things. Given he's a newbie and he might be a misguided townie acting scummy I spent time clarifying things.
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Mark_Cangila
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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D1)

Postby Mark_Cangila » Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:12 am UTC

Here is my current read on people, in no order:
Bessie:
Spoiler:
Bessie is playing typical Bessie as far as I can see. Not much out of the ordinary.

SJ:
Spoiler:
I find SJ's posting style... interesting. I can't really tell if it is townie or scummy tho, due to my lack of previous data.

Boom:
Spoiler:
A somewhat lack of boomgambit, but his gambits seem to have been reducing for the last few games. I don't find anything else in his play AI.

MoA:
Spoiler:
I have no idea about their vanilla claim. I doubt it is legit.

@anyone who has played with MoA: Do they gambit much?
Sabrar:
Spoiler:
I don't think I'm in a position to ask for content, but content would help. Suspicious for now.

LG:
Spoiler:
I'm not picking up much from him.

Wam:
Spoiler:
I like a lot of his points, specifically his point about an early bessie vote.

Madge:
Spoiler:
Madge's play has the typical "D1 is bad" meta she always uses. At this point, it is NAI though.

Moody:
Spoiler:
I'm definetely not a fan. A lot of seemingly irrelevent points IMO. Scum lean.

Mpolo:
Spoiler:
I really dislike some of his wincon speculation. I remember the mess that was Alien Warfare. I'm not sure if we should base it off wincon interpretation.

Plytho:
Spoiler:
I really didn't notice anything special from Plytho.



This is a short term list for now.

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LaserGuy
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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D1)

Postby LaserGuy » Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:28 am UTC

Not liking that reads post from Mark. Gonna put him in my scum pile.

Will look at Sabrar's stuff in more detail when I get off mobile. Initial impression is he looks okay, if a bit hard to read due to the formating.

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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D1)

Postby SuicideJunkie » Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:47 am UTC

The chart is fairly simple.
One pass to just note the volume of posting, 1-4 points based on length. Sort and rank.
Another go to give points on what was on topic rather than smalltalk.
For the third, I just ticked up points based on what I felt was illuminating new insights.

eg:
MoA had a lot of typing, but modest on-topicness, and relatively low density of things that shed light for me.
Sabrar had very little, and while the one post was very pointedly on topic, it didn't seem to mean anything.
Boomfrog was posting lightly, but was on topic and provided insights.

I expect people would agree with the first two categories, but might disagree on the third if they find different things trite or wise given more experience.


PS:
Are spoilers in this thread always OK to read, and just used to avoid post spillage?

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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D1)

Postby LaserGuy » Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:03 am UTC

SuicideJunkie wrote:The chart is fairly simple.
One pass to just note the volume of posting, 1-4 points based on length. Sort and rank.
Another go to give points on what was on topic rather than smalltalk.
For the third, I just ticked up points based on what I felt was illuminating new insights.


Hmm... I think I'm going to give a hard Townread on this if scum is night chat only since I think a buddy probably would have advised you as to the problems with what you're doing.

One problem I see immediately is that you're grossly overvaluing post length compared to everything else. E.g. why is bessie super Townie for high post volume but only C for on-topic/insightfulness, whereas moody's few posts are extremely on-topic and insightful to you, but he's on the scummy side of the evaluation? Why is quantity more important to you than quality? Do you think it is easier for scum to fake quality or quantity? Actually a better example is moody and BoomFrog. They're D/A/A and C/A/A, respectively but moody ends up with a big negative modifier and BoomFrog a positive one.

eg:
MoA had a lot of typing, but modest on-topicness, and relatively low density of things that shed light for me.
Sabrar had very little, and while the one post was very pointedly on topic, it didn't seem to mean anything.
Boomfrog was posting lightly, but was on topic and provided insights.

I expect people would agree with the first two categories, but might disagree on the third if they find different things trite or wise given more experience.


Be more specific. What things of MoA's (or Sabrar's, BoomFrog's) did you evaluate as insightful?

PS:
Are spoilers in this thread always OK to read, and just used to avoid post spillage?


Yes, in-thread spoilers are always okay to read.

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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D1)

Postby plytho » Sun Dec 16, 2018 2:18 pm UTC

Important things first: I reuploaded my avatar, is it visible now?

Right, the main things that have happened so far is LaserGuy suggesting mass claim D1, the vanilla claim from master of all and Sabrars hot new style.

Early reads:

Bessie: Checklist is null. The FoSes are a bit weak but this early that’s fine. Scum reads Sabrar, wam and madge. this is a weird post. It feels like bessie is buddying BoomFrog to reinforce her Sabrar vote (which was base on weak reasons imho), but then she unvotes because she wants to push Madge (without voting). Her next post focuses on wam. Confusing.

BoomFrog: not a lot yet, I guess he really is taking it easy. His early reads list makes sense, as does the Sabrar vote.

@BoomFrog: what does Tadpole mean?

LaserGuy: Like I kind of exlained to SuicideJunkie, pushing a theory you believe in but that is likely going to be rejected by town at first sight is a townie thing to do. As others said the logic does make more sense than expected, though I still disagree with it. I like the Madge scum read laser got out of this. Laser feels townie.


Madge: The most noticeable thing about Madge’s play is her assessment that “Sabrar is being Sabrar” and not seeing the style difference. I don’t know how to read this though. Some scum points for not being interested in Laser’s mass claim plan. This feels like something town!Madge would jump on if not genuinely than at least with a joke about getting all that info D1. I can see scum!Madge being self conscious and afraid of looking like she’s role-fishing.

Mark_Cangila: I have no read yet so some questions:
@mark: why are you voting MoA?
Also, those spoilers make your reads list harder to read and don’t really help so please don’t use them next time.
Also, could you order the list from town to scum?
Could you elaborate your moody read? Which points are irrelevant?
What’s the problem with mpolo’s wincon speculation? Do you think he’s scum for doing it?
Sabrar had a lot of content in his first post, did you not read it? What’s suspicious?

MasterOfAll: I kind of like his claims, they feel townie. I also like the sentiment of “let’s play the game, not break the game” but that’s NAI. Apparently MoA isn’t using the lurkiness is scumminess link as a scum tool.

Moody: being moody. Null for now

Mpolo: mostly focused on mass claim discussion and rolespec. Which appears to be standard early D1 mpolo.

Sabrar: Clearly trying out a different style this game. Cautious people would do such things in games where they’re town. But I can see Sabrar using that and use it in a scum game for exactly that reason. This style is very hard to read on my phone and requires me to use two tabs on my computer to match the comment to the post. Looking at other people’s responses to Sabrar I guess others also have trouble following. (Not that great for town :s)

Sabrar may only have two posts but they’re very information dense and contains opinions on everyone. Focusing on the Sabrar’s post count and ignoring the content feels scummy. It’s an easy shot to take. Though, to be honest, that was my gut response as well.

Sabrar’s points make a lot of sense. I like him pointing out the active lurkers. The post by post style is very thorough and I like that part, though it is hard to read. Townie

SuicideJunkie: Is figuring out the game and seems to be focusing on the wrong things for now. Looking for what town appreciates and trying to solve the game with data isn’t going to help town win the game. Unless, as Madge said, that data has been shown to work on previous games.

@Suicidejunkie: Is there anyone you think is town or scum and why? Please be specific. Don’t worry about getting it right right away. Just start talking about people.

Wam: is looking scummiest right now. Simply agreeing with Boomfrog’s points on Sabrar is incredibly lazy for a townie. Sabrar said a lot more things in that first post, if you actually do scumread Sabrar you should be able to point out additional scumminess. This feels like an “oh sweet, Sabrar is lynchable” move instead of an “is he actually scum?” move.
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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D1)

Postby wam » Sun Dec 16, 2018 3:52 pm UTC

bessie wrote:Reinforces the idea that you're not analyzing, you're on autopilot.


Been thinking about this comment and your right. I think it goes further than this though, I think generally it takes me a while to get into games and this is why I'm always scummy day 1. Its been worse recently I think its due to how busy I have been.

bessie wrote:
wam, you have a couple more unanswered questions from Sabrar directed at you. How about answering them? Reference this post.




Where?

Sabrar wrote:wam
Spoiler:
wam wrote:1 for sabrar content is down.
High-content is NAI for me. Why would low content be otherwise? Why don't you take the effort to try and think of a reason?
wam wrote:2 doesn't engage with this post from Bessie.
This is an obvious falsehood and just shows that wam couldn't have reread my content with too much attention to detail. I mean how can you miss the fact that the only player that I actually quoted was bessie from the very same post??
wam wrote:3 I agree with booms points here
Sheeping, not even waiting for my answer and not doing any independent scum-hunting.



1 question in here that i answered viewtopic.php?p=4417074#p4417090.

Ok so on Sabrar I completley missed this statement on both read throughs.

Sabrar wrote:This is double-standard, bessie did the same by conforming her opening analysis to my 'expectations'.
Looking at the post overall it looks to be standard bessie but easily replicated from scum!pov. Unfortunately bessie's town-percent is nowhere near the standard neighborhood.


THis is exactly what I was expecting to see. So I take back this point.

I don't think I answered this

bessie wrote:
wam wrote:So was just making up the confirmation post analysis as I'm not Bessie. I think Bessie reaction was natural. As far as I can see MOA ignoredti completely which is odd and more.likely to be scum moa.
Can you explain your reasoning on MoA?


Basically someone who hasn't played in a while won't know as scum how they should react to this so would take the safe option of not responding.

bessie wrote:
wam wrote:Also looking back at it, it's very early day 1 for Bessie to be voting. Normally she waits till much later day 1. Don't know if this is AI.
You know, I am almost 100% positive you have tried to throw this same accusation out there and fish for reactions in a previous game, and I replied with this link, but I can’t remember where. Pre-post edit: found it:
bessie wrote:
wam wrote: Just noticed. Bessie that's an early vote day 1 by your standards. Any reason?
Aw wam, and I thought you were reading my posts. See here.
bessie wrote:Vicarin – Indie/scum.

Grrr
Hmmm, I wonder how far back I would need to go to find somewhere I voted early on D1. I’m not sure I have time to go through all my old games. Oh, no, wait, here’s one.


Huh I had completely forgotten this. Don't have your encyclopedic game memory/Game notes.

LaserGuy wrote:Vote: wam


Why?

plytho wrote:Simply agreeing with Boomfrog’s points on Sabrar is incredibly lazy for a townie. Sabrar said a lot more things in that first post, if you actually do scumread Sabrar you should be able to point out additional scumminess. This feels like an “oh sweet, Sabrar is lynchable” move instead of an “is he actually scum?” move.


Yeah I did have 3 seperate points viewtopic.php?f=53&t=125666&start=40#p4416985.

Thats all the responses done (I Think)

Reads (No particular order in the categories)

Town
Laser - Don't think scum laser would have gone out on a limb with the mass claim strategy
Boom - Usual content and analysis
Plytho - Good reads list looks thought through
Bessie - Think this is town bessie based on my already revealed meta read that town bessie is more aggressive (Could be faked)
Suidcide_Junkie - Getting a newbie town vibe which is hard to fake.

Neutral
Sabrar - Odd posting style, I take back some of my suspicions
Madge - Normal Day 1 Madge
Mark - No data



Scum
MOA - As stated don't like the lack of a response to my con post comment
Mpolo - Has no reads in the game other than a 1 line about madge.
Moody - See mpolo

Unvote

Vote MOA
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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D1)

Postby plytho » Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:25 pm UTC

wam wrote:Yeah I did have 3 seperate points viewtopic.php?f=53&t=125666&start=40#p4416985.
Well, the first point is simply wrong. Content does not equal post count. The second has been proven wrong by bessie. So, aside from those you're just copying Boomfrog's opinion without adding your own perspective. Boomfrog's opinion is quite specific here and I have a hard time believing you agree with every part of it. That's why I think you're being lazy and not trying to actually read Sabrar.
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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D1)

Postby bessie » Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:45 pm UTC

Replies to this post.
Sabrar wrote:Your example just reinforces my point (though maybe I could have phrased it better). You were aware of moody's disposition last year, but you didn't take it into account now and attacked him for it.
As others have noted, moody jokes easily as town or scum, and is self aware that he is opening with the usual bessie-townie-meta joke. I think you need to reread my opening post and consider the common theme throughout those reads, and consider them in context of what you know about me, my posting style, and my methodology.

Sabrar wrote:Yes, you both did the exact same thing. But you FoS-d BoomFrog for it, meaning you think it's scummy. Why did you then deliberately do something scummy?
See above.

Sabrar, I will probably fail the homework assignment. That type of meta read is not my strength.

Sabrar wrote:- LaserGuy is on the right track. 2 townie-points
Hmmmm.

Sabrar wrote:- this is the classic bessie vs Madge we've been all waiting for. It could go either way...
We shall see, perhaps soon.


Madge wrote:By difference in style do you mean the spoilering and structuring? I'm not following. It seems relatively normal sabrar except perhaps for only mentioning a few people and the strange spoiler structure.
Do you not notice anything else that is perhaps different in Sabrar’s posting style in this game than his use of spoilers (which he has done before)? Did you read the content in those spoilers? You should, because if you did, you would not have made the above comment.

LaserGuy wrote:Hmm... I think I'm going to give a hard Townread on this if scum is night chat only since I think a buddy probably would have advised you as to the problems with what you're doing.
Do you mean scum has day and night chat? And you are making the following assumptions:
1. Mafia is actively participating in day chat at a high enough level to influence each other’s posting.
2. Mafia partners are at an experience level where they are able to/feel comfortable with giving advice on post content.
3. Mafia partners are willing to forgo “naturalness” of the new player’s posting style and actively advise.

plytho wrote:Bessie: Checklist is null. The FoSes are a bit weak but this early that’s fine. Scum reads Sabrar, wam and madge. this is a weird post. It feels like bessie is buddying BoomFrog to reinforce her Sabrar vote (which was base on weak reasons imho), but then she unvotes because she wants to push Madge (without voting). Her next post focuses on wam. Confusing.
Re linked post. I am trying to figure out Sabrar’s theoretical posting restriction. One possibility I am considering is that it is tied to the number of posts of other players, thus my post count summary and my request to Mark to make a few posts, which he did not do. That reminds me:
Mark_Cangila wrote:bessie is awesome!
Mark, please make a few more posts, I want you to increase your post count. I am testing a theory.

FoS anyone that appears to be deliberately keeping their post count low.


plytho wrote:Sabrar: Clearly trying out a different style this game. Cautious people would do such things in games where they’re town. But I can see Sabrar using that and use it in a scum game for exactly that reason. This style is very hard to read on my phone and requires me to use two tabs on my computer to match the comment to the post. Looking at other people’s responses to Sabrar I guess others also have trouble following. (Not that great for town :s)
Can you not perhaps think of other reasons that Sabrar might be trying out a different style in this particular game, like other than “because he wants to”? Your two tabs comment tells me you actually analyzed his content (not everyone did). Don’t like the hard to read comment though. The only way it differs from say, my usual style, is that he didn’t post a lot of links/quotes.

wam wrote:Been thinking about this comment and your right. I think it goes further than this though, I think generally it takes me a while to get into games and this is why I'm always scummy day 1.
Hahaha not true.

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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D1)

Postby plytho » Sun Dec 16, 2018 7:57 pm UTC

bessie wrote:Can you not perhaps think of other reasons that Sabrar might be trying out a different style in this particular game, like other than “because he wants to”? Your two tabs comment tells me you actually analyzed his content (not everyone did). Don’t like the hard to read comment though. The only way it differs from say, my usual style, is that he didn’t post a lot of links/quotes.
Sure, other reasons are possible. Post restriction is the most obvious one and you seem convinced that that's the case. Either because town!Sabrar isn't allowed to say so or scum!Sabrar is lying about it. I don't think it's a very useful thing to pursue and think there might be a reason for Sabrar to play like this that isn't role-related. Although you linking it to post count makes sense and might be linked to someone else's post count through Sabrar's submitted role?

The way it differs is the reason it's hard to read. Links and quotes help to know what exactly you're talking about.
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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D1)

Postby moody7277 » Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:30 pm UTC

bessie- usual setup spec, grumpy at a few people. actually reading through she seems to be grumpy at most people. vote on Sabrar is serious because she mentions looking for scummates, then unvotes after Madge's blind acceptance post. more responses in most recent post. grumpy bessie is not something I've seen before, but I think she is still town anyway

BoomFrog- reponse to grumpy bessie, joke vote on Sabrar, enjoying the byplay with SJ, quick reads with LG, SJ, and MoA as town, disputes some of Sabrar's reads, tries to puzzle out his conciseness. slightly townie

LaserGuy- joke votes Sabrar, provides the main topic for discussion so far, analysis from the responses, votes Madge off of it, upset by wam being oblivious to Sabrar's spoiler, votes wam, also doesn't like Mark. trying to get SJ to unpack his table a bit. Town.

Madge- usual D1 blues, upset at mpolo's scum read, bit of antagonism with bessie, feels SJ's spreadsheet is empty data. This is just wrong, doesn't like bessie or my responses to it. neutral to slight scum.

Mark- response to MoA's "claim" is a vote that doesn't seem RVS. reads list highly unimpressive, most players in a "don't know" type with a couple of people labelled scum. slight scum lean

MasterOfAll- "claims" vanilla townie, joke vote SJ, open to LG's mass claim but figures scum would get more benefit, metagaming the mods, bit of wine at the end of the last post. slight town

mpolo- couple of meta reads on bessie and Madge, no on mass claim, some role spec, and a bit of fluff. neutral

plytho- joke vote wam, some responses, reasoning on LG's mass claim idea seems to point to him being against it, reads post looks good. Town.

Sabrar- Doing a more laconic style for personal reasons if we take him at his word. Content is all there, just in 80% less posts. slightly townie

SuicideJunkie- trying to settle in, some interesting opinion on the RVS deal we've gotten used to, the table is an interesting innovation. what strikes me is the strong correlation between "loquaciousness" and the final score despite him agreeing that they don't necessarily go together. A bit of an explanation in his next post, but a lot is still subjective. Neutral

wam- joke vote MoA, agrees with bessie on setup numbers, notices Sabrar's posts, but apparently didn't read all the way through them, also votes Sabrar off that. bit superficial in the responses. neutral.
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D1)

Postby bessie » Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:29 pm UTC

plytho wrote:Sure, other reasons are possible. Post restriction is the most obvious one and you seem convinced that that's the case. Either because town!Sabrar isn't allowed to say so or scum!Sabrar is lying about it. I don't think it's a very useful thing to pursue and think there might be a reason for Sabrar to play like this that isn't role-related. Although you linking it to post count makes sense and might be linked to someone else's post count through Sabrar's submitted role?
I wouldn’t say convinced. I like to start with considering all possibilities, then discarding from there. But even if it’s not a useful thing to pursue (and I’m not saying it isn’t), why not eliminate a data point, especially if it can be done with minimal effort? Everyone can make at least a half a dozen posts to test this, which they should be doing anyway.

moody7277 wrote:bessie- usual setup spec, grumpy at a few people. actually reading through she seems to be grumpy at most people. vote on Sabrar is serious because she mentions looking for scummates, then unvotes after Madge's blind acceptance post. more responses in most recent post. grumpy bessie is not something I've seen before, but I think she is still town anyway
I’m really puzzled as to why you think I’m not often grumpy. And do you not see a reason for my unvote, when I unvoted?


Unofficial Votals:
wam (2) : plytho, LaserGuy
SuicideJunkie (1) MasterOfAll
Sabrar (1) : BoomFrog
MasterOfAll (2) : Mark_Cangila, wam

Not voting : bessie, Madge, moody7277, mpolo, Sabrar, SuicideJunkie

Deadline: Tuesday

jimMod and diModka, can we have a deadline and a deadline clock?

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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D1)

Postby Mark_Cangila » Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:32 pm UTC

plytho wrote:Mark_Cangila: I have no read yet so some questions:
@mark: why are you voting MoA?
Also, those spoilers make your reads list harder to read and don’t really help so please don’t use them next time.
Also, could you order the list from town to scum?
Could you elaborate your moody read? Which points are irrelevant?
What’s the problem with mpolo’s wincon speculation? Do you think he’s scum for doing it?
Sabrar had a lot of content in his first post, did you not read it? What’s suspicious?


I'm voting MoA in the same sorta way I voted for Vicarin in B99. I would rather not completly random vote so I'll pick some minor thing and vote on it.
Looking over moody's posts, especially his newer one, they look a lot better. That read wasn't great and was done in a rush at 11 PM.
On the topic of Mpolo wincon, I seem to have misinterpreted their points. I thought Mpolo was alluding to wincon as something secret like was done in Alien Warfare.
On the sabrar point, I did not read his first post closely enough so I missed some of it.

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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D1)

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Sun Dec 16, 2018 11:07 pm UTC

As they stopped for a rest, one of the party approached Sir Jimbob, who was staring idly across an open vista admiring the view.

"What can I do for you Sir bessie?" he asked.

"My Lord, my hunting dog here is getting bored. Could we perhaps, um, move forward with this quest?"

"What, we've been only going for 2 minutes..."

"It's been 3 days since we moved from here."

"Oh."


Votals:

wam (2): plytho, LaserGuy
MasterOfAll (2): Mark_Cangila, wam
SuicideJunkie (1): MasterOfAll
Sabrar (1): BoomFrog

(Please let me know if there are any mistakes).

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. As things stand, wam would be lynched.

Deadline will be 9pm UTC, Wednesday 19th December (sorry it's a bit later than ideal, but I'm out all of Tuesday until late).
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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D1)

Postby MasterOfAll » Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:59 am UTC

Am I the only one who thinks that wam's reasoning for voting me is laughably bad?

Yes, I noticed when wam voted for me in his 1st post of the day. And I immediately shrugged it off as insignificant due to the reasoning being "only one not to write confirm." So, yeah, I didn't even bother to acknowledge it.

So I find it rather amusing that his reason for voting for me is that I didn't respond at all to his 'made up confirmation post analysis'.

Now, if there is an actual issue that someone brought up and I haven't responded to, please let me know and I will be happy to weigh in.


Right now, I'd be fine with a wam lynch, actually, so

Unvote (SJ)
Vote: wam

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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D1)

Postby LaserGuy » Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:32 am UTC

Reads:

bessie:

Liking bessie's content for the most part. Scumhunting appears genuine and well focussed. I'm noting the "double standard" discussion but I'm on the fence as to whether or not there's anything particularly fruitful there. Putting as Town lean for now.

bessie wrote:Do you mean scum has day and night chat? And you are making the following assumptions:
1. Mafia is actively participating in day chat at a high enough level to influence each other’s posting.
2. Mafia partners are at an experience level where they are able to/feel comfortable with giving advice on post content.
3. Mafia partners are willing to forgo “naturalness” of the new player’s posting style and actively advise.


Yes, you're right I have this backward and it should be SJ is Town if scum has daychat. For the rest, in my setup spec of 3 mafia I think the odds of there not being at least one partner who would try to help out a new player, especially one as apparently active and involved as SJ appears to be, is fairly low.


BoomFrog:

Not really much to go off of yet. Apparently is deliberately coasting for a bit. Agree with Sabrar that some of his reads seem a bit bizarre to me. Going to mark him as "Is BoomFrog" for now and revisit once I've seen more from him.


Madge:

It's weird to see Madge defending Sabrar instead of Sabrar defending Madge :P Still bothers me that she didn't choose to engage me on the mass claim question, even after I made a point about it. Doesn't seem to be paying close attention for the most part either. Putting as scum lean.


Mark:

Early MoA vote doesn't seem well motivated, even if it's borderline RVS. Don't care for his reads at all. Most seem to be extremely poorly motivated and are mostly null or no opinion on anything, and the few points he actually made of substance he ended up backtracking on in his next post. Scummy.


MoA:

Vanilla claim and subsequent retraction seems to be deliberate WIFOM. My inclination is that this is probably more likely to be coming from Town, and I liked that he was willing to engage with me on the mass claim point. That aside, his content is mostly active lurky except for an OMGUS vote on wam. Kind of ambivalent on him so I'm going to set him for null for now.


moody:

I'm just going to go out on a limb and mark down a gut Town lean for now.


mpolo:

Not much in his content to speak of, but nothing that's an obvious ping either. Null pending more content.


plytho:

Content looks alright. Active and making some good observations. Reads look pretty solid and I don't see much to disagree with. Putting as Town.


Sabrar:

Obviously playing a very different meta from previous iterations. I lean somewhat Town on this as Sabrar has done some experiments with his meta as Town in the past (e.g. SS 2017). The stream-of-consciousness style of his posting I think is probably actually quite difficult to fake, and a lot of his observation I find quite astute. Marking as Town for now.


SuicideJunkie:

Enthusiastic newbie. Going to mark him as Town lean for now and see how his content develops as the game progresses.


wam:

I think expecting MoA to comment on the confirmation post analysis is a bit strange since MoA would not be familiar with the meta/inside jokiness surrounding this. Seems to not really be paying close attention, e.g. this:
wam wrote:Sabrar seems off this game going to 're read and we if I can put my finger on what.

Wam and Sabrar have a history together so I'm skeptical that wam would need a reread to pick up why Sabrar "seems off". The subsequent post doesn't seem to suggest he actually did a reread anyway.

Reads are fairly safe with mostly lurkers in the scum pool. BoomFrog seems out of place in the Town pile. Happy with my vote here for now.



Town
LaserGuy
plytho
Sabrar
bessie
moody
SuicideJunkie

mpolo
BoomFrog
MasterOfAll

Madge
Mark_Cangila
wam
Scum


Just a note I will be on holidays for the next two weeks. I should be able to continue posting, but not as frequently as usual.

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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D1)

Postby mpolo » Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:39 am UTC

Sorry about the weekend. I was out basically all day on Saturday and Sunday and didn't get to the computer at all (or almost at all — I think I checked email once, at about 1 in the morning).

Unfortunately, there hasn't been a lot of movement in thread. It was interesting that Sabrar took so long to get into his roll. He has a strong objection to rule 7, since that would be a way for town to force more information out of the setup. I don't think scum would take the time to call this out, at least not until after the game. So, I'm reading Sabrar as town.

Bessie's meta-town read is still strong.

I should have some time today to go more deeply into this.
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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D1)

Postby Madge » Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:02 am UTC

- I don't think SJ's read style is really alignment indicative (though reactions to being pressed for it will be), but I think LaserGuy's take down is coming from a townie place (unless LG is scum taking an easy target - hmmmm).

@plytho - your avatar is back!!!! yay!

- MoA's "let's play the game not break the game" that plytho summarised it as it a bad idea, let's BREAK THE GAME so we can WIN. a town win is righteous even if we break the game to do it. A scum win.... less so, would make it feel cheap for scum. Since we're town though we can totally break the game (also I lied, I'd respect the hell out of scum who broke the game to win, because breaking the game is FUN FUN FUN FUN)

@bessie - i'm failing at your guessing game, I don't know what was weird about Sabrar. The low post count, yes. If he was doing something like SJ's charts or Hari Seldon's point system or BoomFrog's woofing then I'd notice that and comment. Was there a spoiler of woofs with point values in a spreadsheet that I missed? I just double checked and re-opened it. If I'm really examining it, it seems like it's got more quotes throughout and less actual writing?

@bessie i'd be very interested why you're encouraging people to post more in such a direct way, i can only assume you DIDN'T submit a role that interacts with post contents in some way (don't claim either way because it's against the rules to do so obv), because that fishing would not be allowed if you had. but maybe you suspect someone else did. it's the sort of thing i can see someone doing.

- moody's post looks good at first glance but i'm not happy with how many people are neutral. if you're gonna do reads then be more willing to put people on one side or the other.

@laserguy: i didn't realise you were testing people with that, i literally thought it was a stupid joke because OF COURSE it's not a mass claim D1 (just like OF COURSE boomfrog won't really be barking all game or whatever). I'm kind of shocked so many people took it so seriously. if you want to make another joke that i'll respond to as though it were serious let me know.

mpolo's point about sabrar's complaint about the rule is interesting, but you know how Sabrar is with his Opinions about rules, I think he'd still be upset if he was scum. but again a townie place when he could jump on the sabrar wagon if he was scum.
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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D1)

Postby wam » Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:22 am UTC

plytho wrote:
wam wrote:Yeah I did have 3 seperate points viewtopic.php?f=53&t=125666&start=40#p4416985.
Well, the first point is simply wrong. Content does not equal post count. The second has been proven wrong by bessie. So, aside from those you're just copying Boomfrog's opinion without adding your own perspective. Boomfrog's opinion is quite specific here and I have a hard time believing you agree with every part of it. That's why I think you're being lazy and not trying to actually read Sabrar.


At the time I thought I had 3 points why does it being invalidated later make it not count? I have been back through that boom posts and can't see anything I don't agree with.
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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D1)

Postby wam » Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:30 am UTC

@MOA

That's an omgus vote if i ever saw one.

@laser did 're read sabrars posts but I agree I didn't make that clear.
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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D1)

Postby plytho » Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:37 am UTC

Mark_Cangila wrote:
plytho wrote:Mark_Cangila: I have no read yet so some questions:
@mark: why are you voting MoA?
Also, those spoilers make your reads list harder to read and don’t really help so please don’t use them next time.
Also, could you order the list from town to scum?
Could you elaborate your moody read? Which points are irrelevant?
What’s the problem with mpolo’s wincon speculation? Do you think he’s scum for doing it?
Sabrar had a lot of content in his first post, did you not read it? What’s suspicious?


I'm voting MoA in the same sorta way I voted for Vicarin in B99. I would rather not completly random vote so I'll pick some minor thing and vote on it.
Looking over moody's posts, especially his newer one, they look a lot better. That read wasn't great and was done in a rush at 11 PM.
On the topic of Mpolo wincon, I seem to have misinterpreted their points. I thought Mpolo was alluding to wincon as something secret like was done in Alien Warfare.
On the sabrar point, I did not read his first post closely enough so I missed some of it.

-What is the minor thing that got you to vote MoA?
-please be more specific about moody: which points were irrelevant, why do his newer posts look better?
-please be specific about Sabrar's first post: which parts did you miss?

FoS Mark for being so defensive.

Mark, you changed your mind about everything I asked (except the vote). Why is that?
When I ask those questions I'm not trying to point out where you're wrong (your response makes it seem like this is what you think).
I ask those questions because I want you to clarify your reads.
As I said, I really want you to be specific.
For example, to the question about moody you just said "I don't think that anymore".
I want you to say something like: "I thought points A,B and C were irrelevant. I like moody better now because of points X,Y and Z"
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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D1)

Postby plytho » Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:58 am UTC

wam wrote:
plytho wrote:
wam wrote:Yeah I did have 3 seperate points viewtopic.php?f=53&t=125666&start=40#p4416985.
Well, the first point is simply wrong. Content does not equal post count. The second has been proven wrong by bessie. So, aside from those you're just copying Boomfrog's opinion without adding your own perspective. Boomfrog's opinion is quite specific here and I have a hard time believing you agree with every part of it. That's why I think you're being lazy and not trying to actually read Sabrar.


At the time I thought I had 3 points why does it being invalidated later make it not count? I have been back through that boom posts and can't see anything I don't agree with.
It wasn't invalidated by new evidence. The evidence was there but you ignored/missed it. So in order to build your Sabrar read you used two false points and one lazy point. It doesn't matter when this was pointed out.

I don't see anything wrong with BoomFrog's points in that post. I don't think they warrant a vote, though.
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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D1)

Postby Sabrar » Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:10 am UTC

Changing the structure for hopefully better readability.

bessie
Spoiler:
bessie wrote:@Sabrar – Categorically like Madge in Chaos?
I do not wish to answer this question for the time being.
bessie wrote:As others have noted, moody jokes easily as town or scum, and is self aware that he is opening with the usual bessie-townie-meta joke.
And as I have explicitly linked to, scum!moody went out of his way to not make the same joke.
bessie wrote:See above.
I'm not seeing it. We should probably pick this up after the game (or sooner if circumstances change) because it once again feels like we're two ships in different neighborhoods.

BoomFrog
Spoiler:
BoomFrog wrote:Why? plytho is savvy enough to see the obvious joke there...

Madge wrote:i literally thought it was a stupid joke because OF COURSE it's not a mass claim D1

Do you think that the two are similar? Is LaserGuy's scum-read on Madge justified because he expected a serious answer?

Mark
Spoiler:
Mark is very quiet. His read-list is a bunch of nulls with a curious exception of liking wam and disliking moody, mpolo and myself (and he later basically retracts all three).
He defended bessie in Texas, I feel this is much more likely coming from someone who is scum-buddy with wam rather than actual town. His language is indicative of not putting in too much effort into scum-hunting:
- typical Bessie as far as I can see
- can't really tell
- don't find anything else
- I have no idea
- not picking up much
- really didn't notice anything special
This would all be fine in isolation but when your whole list is just you saying you couldn't find anything out of the ordinary that you could comment on then it looks really bad.

MasterofAll
Spoiler:
I would like to illustrate how little MasterOfAll actually contributed so far and I will do this in a completely 'new' and 'original' manner. What I'm looking for is any scum-hunting, opinions on other players, questions to others that would move the game forward and similar things.
MasterofAll wrote:Yes, many years ago. But I also replaced into the Newbie New Year game way back at the beginning of 2018, and lurked my way to a scum win by coasting on the 'town slip' of the player I replaced.
Answer to question, reasonable in itself, understandably not useful for our purposes.
MasterofAll wrote:Apologies in advance if I become demotivated and end up lurking too much in this game; hopefully if that does happen, there will be someone left on the replacement list.
Is aware of own irl issues that might cause problems for us and notifies us in advance. Appreciated, again off-topic and understandably provides no info.
MasterofAll wrote:But, there is no reason to vote for me in this game, as I am a mere Vanilla townie (thanks, secret santa; but at least I smell good; who doesn't like the smell of Vanilla?).
Gambit or just joke, if the first we expect him to use it later for some reads, if the second then contains nothing useful.
MasterofAll wrote:Welcome to the game, SuicideJunkie. Here, I got you something nice . . .
Joke vote, provides no info.
MasterofAll wrote:@Sabrar: I'll get back to you later on the Vanilla claim.
Delaying answer, would make more sense if it was a gambit to gather opinions. In itself contains no info.
MasterofAll wrote:By the way, I *do* really like the smell of vanilla. It might be my favorite scent overall.
Off-topic, no info.
MasterofAll wrote:@SuicideJunkie: Don't worry about my vote on you. I just didn't want you to feel left out of the random voting stage. But, as a new player, you should know that it is exceedingly unlikely that you will be lynched here on D1. That doesn't mean your D1 posts won't be scrutinized and possibly used to lynch you on later days, but just don't worry about being lynched this first day and have fun with the game.
Helpful advice to a newbie to make them more welcome and feel less stressed, but doesn't move the actual game forward outside of that.
MasterofAll wrote:@Everyone who is familiar with the mods: How do you think they went about setting up the game? Fixing up our role submissions a bit, deciding on town-scum-indy balance, then just randomly assigning each role and alignment? Or would they be more likely to manually select things?

Not that I think that setup speculation serves much purpose on D1, but I am curious about the process our mods were likely to have used, as that information might be useful mid and late game.
This information might be useful to 'break' the game later on, though I don't think we have any successful example from the past (Shakespeare III could have been one). However as he also mentions this is not useful on D1.
MasterofAll wrote:@LaserGuy: I am at least willing to consider your reasoning for a D1 mass claim. So, what are you thinking everyone should claim (Rolename and ability?) and why do that here on D1?
'Willing to consider' is a safe pov, asking for clarification is good (if a bit obvious).
MasterofAll wrote:Regarding claiming abilities, I don't think it is the worst idea, but my opinion is that it would be better to wait for later in the game for that. I don't like the idea of 'trying to break the game' as that seems a lot less fun than playing the game. And while scum know up to 3 of the roles of non-scum, it might be only 2 or even 1 or hilariously 0. And then they still have to try to figure out which of us has *that* role they submitted in order to target us, and I really doubt that the flavor is going to help them with that (much more likely the things we say would).
Oh. Now he says he doesn't like breaking the game. That's a bit weird. What use would then the previous info be? At least we know his stance on immediate claims, still nothing about any of the other players.
MasterofAll wrote:Although the point about last year's scum!bessie having strongest powers and thus would have stood out for not being NK'd is interesting, I think there is a better chance that the strongest powers ended up with town (since we outnumber them) and then the mass claim just helps scum to identify targets. This, of course, assumes that we could even agree on what abilities scum would be most scared of, which isn't a discussion I would expect us to ever have until endgame because who wants to help scum not only by knowing all the abilities, but also the ramifications of how they interact and thus who is most dangerous. tl;dr: I still think scum benefits more than town from an early mass claim.
More theoretical discussion with some good conclusions. But this won't help catch scum.
MasterofAll wrote:But, as a way to give people something to talk about, congrats to LaserGuy on bringing up a mass roleclaim and then even making town/scum reads from it.
Praise for LaserGuy, guess this could be interpreted as a townie-read.
MasterofAll wrote:Regarding my vanilla claim, of course it's a fake claim. I did not do it for any particular purpose, but rather, I just thought it would be amusing to claim to be vanilla when we clearly all got some sort of ability gifted to us, because, you know, that's how Secret Santa works.
Turns out it was a joke. How disappointing.
MasterofAll wrote:Still, maybe others will be able to find something useful in the responses to my claim, so I wasn't quite ready to retract my claim earlier. But, I wouldn't want it to be a distraction, so . . . yeah, it was a big, fat lie.
Oh. So others can use it as a way to scum-hunt but he's not interested of doing it himself. So not providing any info.
MasterofAll wrote:In fact, my role is amazing. I am super excited to make use of these interesting and incredibly powerful abilities, and scum should definitely leave me alone at night because I would be very sad if I got knocked out of this game early.
Can be expected to be a similar joke, nothing relevant to our purposes.
MasterofAll wrote:Am I the only one who thinks that wam's reasoning for voting me is laughably bad?
Doesn't like being attacked, asks for support. Expresses dislike of wam.
MasterofAll wrote:Yes, I noticed when wam voted for me in his 1st post of the day. And I immediately shrugged it off as insignificant due to the reasoning being "only one not to write confirm." So, yeah, I didn't even bother to acknowledge it.
Provides reasonable explanation for not taking wam seriously.
MasterofAll wrote:So I find it rather amusing that his reason for voting for me is that I didn't respond at all to his 'made up confirmation post analysis'.
Reiterates point, no new info.
MasterofAll wrote:Now, if there is an actual issue that someone brought up and I haven't responded to, please let me know and I will be happy to weigh in.
Passive continuation, "ask me if there's anything but I'm not about to give more".
MasterofAll wrote:Right now, I'd be fine with a wam lynch, actually, so
Consolidates dislike of wam.

What have we learned from all this? MasterOfAll gave a townie-point to LaserGuy and would be happy with a wam-lynch. He would be fine with claiming abilities later. That's it. He has no opinion on 9 players, hasn't asked them anything or even tried to analyze their content.
I would call this the definition of active lurking.

plytho
Spoiler:
plytho wrote:I focused on SuicideJunkie because he was saying scummy things

plytho wrote:BoomFrog: not a lot yet, I guess he really is taking it easy. His early reads list makes sense

How do you reconcile BoomFrog's 'easy' town-read on SuicideJunkie with the above?

wam
Spoiler:
wam wrote:Low content from sabrar could be that your taking more care over each post as you are worrying about perception instead of playing naturally.
I'm acknowledging the comment. Any reply would be wine, so let's leave it at "It's not how I roll".

I don't think you addressed my point about not doing any independent scum-hunting (also brought up plytho multiple times). By now I have replied to BoomFrog's points about me, why didn't you read them just now and comment?

Votable list for now: Mark_Cangila, MasterOfAll, wam. Second tier is Madge and BoomFrog (and if BoomFrog is scum then get SuicideJunkie with extreme prejudice immediately after).

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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D1)

Postby plytho » Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:35 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:Changing the structure for hopefully better readability.
It's way better now, thanks!

Sabrar wrote:plytho
Spoiler:
plytho wrote:I focused on SuicideJunkie because he was saying scummy things

plytho wrote:BoomFrog: not a lot yet, I guess he really is taking it easy. His early reads list makes sense

How do you reconcile BoomFrog's 'easy' town-read on SuicideJunkie with the above?

I haven't got a proper read on SuicideJunkie yet, he was saying scummy things that could come from newbie town.
I figure BoomFrog may have some gut read based on tone that I'm not picking up.
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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D1)

Postby Mark_Cangila » Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:20 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:
bessie wrote:Do you mean scum has day and night chat? And you are making the following assumptions:
1. Mafia is actively participating in day chat at a high enough level to influence each other’s posting.
2. Mafia partners are at an experience level where they are able to/feel comfortable with giving advice on post content.
3. Mafia partners are willing to forgo “naturalness” of the new player’s posting style and actively advise.


Yes, you're right I have this backward and it should be SJ is Town if scum has daychat. For the rest, in my setup spec of 3 mafia I think the odds of there not being at least one partner who would try to help out a new player, especially one as apparently active and involved as SJ appears to be, is fairly low.


I disagree here. I think SJ could easily be scum if there is daychat. From what I've picked up on, many players on here are very reluctant to advise mafia partners, especially newbies.

plytho wrote:
Mark_Cangila wrote:
plytho wrote:Mark_Cangila: I have no read yet so some questions:
@mark: why are you voting MoA?
Also, those spoilers make your reads list harder to read and don’t really help so please don’t use them next time.
Also, could you order the list from town to scum?
Could you elaborate your moody read? Which points are irrelevant?
What’s the problem with mpolo’s wincon speculation? Do you think he’s scum for doing it?
Sabrar had a lot of content in his first post, did you not read it? What’s suspicious?


I'm voting MoA in the same sorta way I voted for Vicarin in B99. I would rather not completly random vote so I'll pick some minor thing and vote on it.
Looking over moody's posts, especially his newer one, they look a lot better. That read wasn't great and was done in a rush at 11 PM.
On the topic of Mpolo wincon, I seem to have misinterpreted their points. I thought Mpolo was alluding to wincon as something secret like was done in Alien Warfare.
On the sabrar point, I did not read his first post closely enough so I missed some of it.

-What is the minor thing that got you to vote MoA?
-please be more specific about moody: which points were irrelevant, why do his newer posts look better?
-please be specific about Sabrar's first post: which parts did you miss?

FoS Mark for being so defensive.

Mark, you changed your mind about everything I asked (except the vote). Why is that?
When I ask those questions I'm not trying to point out where you're wrong (your response makes it seem like this is what you think).
I ask those questions because I want you to clarify your reads.
As I said, I really want you to be specific.
For example, to the question about moody you just said "I don't think that anymore".
I want you to say something like: "I thought points A,B and C were irrelevant. I like moody better now because of points X,Y and Z"

-His vanilla claim. I did not see that he retracted it until now. So
Unvote
-Inititally when I was reading him and generally everyone I skimmed a lot, so I picked up things like the explanation to a newbie, but missed actual content like setup spec. Therefore I thought his posts weren't very relevent. When I reread after his reads post I saw more content such as his discussion about the laser guy explanation.
-I was skimming so I missed a lot of the info in the spoilers. That type of long post doesn't work well with my style of thread reading.

As I said, it was midnight, I was tired, and I needed to sleep, so I skimmed and didn't read closely. Therefore I picked up on little.

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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D1)

Postby Mark_Cangila » Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:31 pm UTC

I don't trust SJ that much. They (what pronouns would you prefer?) may be inexperienced but they've read many mafia threads and probably know at least a bit. I personally don't think they are that clueless.

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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D1)

Postby moody7277 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:19 pm UTC

Madge wrote:- moody's post looks good at first glance but i'm not happy with how many people are neutral. if you're gonna do reads then be more willing to put people on one side or the other.


That would be three out of eleven? One of whom is in his first game here, so I don't have any starting point for a read.
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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Mark_Cangila
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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D1)

Postby Mark_Cangila » Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:37 pm UTC

Also I just read my own reads post. It was awful. I have no idea what I was thinking. I disagree with a lot of my points then. That includes my stuff on Wam and Sabrar.

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SuicideJunkie
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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D1)

Postby SuicideJunkie » Mon Dec 17, 2018 4:31 pm UTC

Today's my last work day before vacation starts, so I'll have a more filling response this evening. Possibly earlier if the office is dead quiet today.

For the low-hanging fruit, unsorted:
- Male pronouns for me; sorry, I'll update that other thread shortly. Fakeedit: in fact, before I've gotten to the end of this.
- "Many" threads is an exaggeration. I've read a few (3-5?) recent ones for entertainment, not for studying and taking notes.
- Good to see some posts from the quiet people. Lack of what appear to me insightful nuggets is highly correlated and/or caused by a lack of posts to contain them, which resulted in a low subtotal score on my chart.
- Re Moody vs Boomfrog scoring. The density of good points was roughly comparable. But Moody had low volume and fewer insights overall. I was worried about BoomFrog for the first page and a bit, but the points started rolling in later. I was torn between ranking point count and density; it sounds like I chose wrong for the audience.
- I don't consider my chart a town/scum list so much as a stick to whack at my own inconsistencies and make sure I didn't forget anyone. It turns out to have been great for poking lurkers with as a bonus; I hadn't thought of that at the time but totally should have realized it.

*** Sabrar had a giant spoiler that I totally missed when counting for the chart. That changes a lot, and I need to update based on that. Also I probably look really weird for verifying about the spoilers so many days later. Ugh.
Deepest apologies Sabrar. You posted your work on time, and did not deserve the Fs. I'll rescore that tonight.
PS: Sabrar - re bessie's header: almost = I got about 10 words in before it clicked that this was Bessie. And then I felt a little dumb.

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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D1)

Postby BoomFrog » Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:46 pm UTC

I haven't fully caught up on the thread. I just finished Sabrar's last post, but my bus has arrived and I'm going to try to not play at work. I might get to a post at lunch.

My MoA read of "Tadpole" meant "little Boomfrog" I was reading MoA as pulling a little gambit to get things going D1 which I read as a townie move. Sabrar's post has convinced me that it was not.

My SJ read is that his attitude is very relaxed which I was reading as newbie town. I still think so but if like to see him keep it up, if his content disappears he's going to slid down towards scummy. (No Sabrar I'm not trying to coach a scummate without daychat, I'm trying to encourage a newbie to not clam up)

wam's content is quite scummy, but he is scummy as town as well. I'm still leaning scum on him but am reluctant to vote him off D1 and I think his alignment will be revealed more as the game goes on.

I really am taking it easy this game, but I'm surprised that no one's suspicions were raised by this decision after game started and alignments were known instead of announcing it in signups or publicly before game. Specifically LaserGuy, plytho and Mark should have had raised eyebrows. Maybe plytho is compensating for our D1 TvsT fight last game though. I need to think about this more.

@Sabrar I know you have some outstanding questions. I'll get to those soon I think. They are good questions. Also, formatting is way better now.

Madge seems a bit off. Her last post is exactly what is expected from her but I expected it much sooner, not after everyone poked her about not acting normally.

moody is far more trusting then I expect this game. He usually has a much more paranoid perspective. Not sure what to make of that yet.

Town:
LG
Bessie
Sabrar
SJ

plytho
moody
mpolo
mark
Madge

wam
MoA

Vote Master of All
"Everything I need to know about parenting I learned from cooking. Don't be afraid to experiment, and eat your mistakes." - Cronos

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wam
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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D1)

Postby wam » Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:27 pm UTC

@sabrar

I have read your responses and I think the9r reasonable not sure how alignment indicative they are.


Mark_Cangila wrote:Also I just read my own reads post. It was awful. I have no idea what I was thinking. I disagree with a lot of my points then. That includes my stuff on Wam and Sabrar.


I really don't like this post seems to be scum who feel caught out.
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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D1)

Postby BoomFrog » Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:23 pm UTC

wam wrote:@sabrar

I have read your responses and I think the9r reasonable not sure how alignment indicative they are.


Mark_Cangila wrote:Also I just read my own reads post. It was awful. I have no idea what I was thinking. I disagree with a lot of my points then. That includes my stuff on Wam and Sabrar.


I really don't like this post seems to be scum who feel caught out.

Actually it feels like someone who made a hasty reads list when sleepy and then is being honest about it later. That shows A) That Mark wanted to contribute but it was poor quality because of RL issues and B) is being open and honest about his thought process. I'm feeling townier about Mark now.
"Everything I need to know about parenting I learned from cooking. Don't be afraid to experiment, and eat your mistakes." - Cronos

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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D1)

Postby mpolo » Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:23 pm UTC

We took the school to sing at an old-folks-home (totally non-politically-correct name there, but I don't know what you call them today), so I ended up with less time than I would prefer.

SuicideJunkie has jumped in with both feet, which is to be commended. His content shows that he has done a lot of reading/preparation before starting, so, while I'm inclined to give the newbie some slack, he seems less new than he otherwise might. I need to read his posts in isolation to get a feel for what I think here.

Mark_Cangila is coming off much more unforced in this game — I'm not immediately thinking he is scum. This has me giving him a tentative town read.
Image <-- Evil experiment

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MasterOfAll
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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D1)

Postby MasterOfAll » Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:38 pm UTC

wam wrote:@MOA

That's an omgus vote if i ever saw one.
Yeah, not really. I'm not voting for you just because you voted for me.

I'm voting for you because you voted for me for a really flimsy reason.


And I had some responses to Sabrar and BoomFrog, but they just got eaten by my browser, and I don't have time to retype the right now. So, the short version is that I find Sabrar's characterization that my posts are more fluff than content so far is valid, while I totally disagree with the conclusion. This game is supposed to be fun, and for me, posting some fluff makes it more fun.

But, we are about 24 hours from deadline now, so I will dial back the fluff and (hopefully) dial up the content. So, first, a Naughty to Nice list:

Naughty
wam - I still think his reason for voting is inadequate, and thus scummy
moody - In the games where I play along at home, I often find him scummy on D1, and this game feels the same
Mark_Cangila - That last post of his where he criticizes himself and disagrees with 'a lot of' his own points (without specifying which, if any, he stands behind) is plain odd
LaserGuy - has to have known that the mass claim idea wouldn't fly with this group, and yet put it out there anyway and backed it up with bad reasoning, leaning a bit scummy
Sabrar - claims to not have a post restriction, yet posting in a style that makes players assume he has one, so slightly scummy
bessie - seems like normal bessie to me, but being bessie, I'm just neutral on her for now
SuicideJunky - seems like a brand new player, benefit of the doubt for now, so neutral
mpolo - no strong feelings yet, so neutral for now
plytho - I like his content so far, seems active and helpful and towny
BoomFrog - I noticed his 'tadpole' comment, and laughed, and awarded a town point for it
Madge - I'm not going to go find it now, but there was 1 specific post she made that gave me strong town vibes
Nice

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MasterOfAll
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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D1)

Postby MasterOfAll » Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:43 pm UTC

ebwop: 24 48 hours from deadline

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BoomFrog
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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D1)

Postby BoomFrog » Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:57 pm UTC

What did you think I ment when I said "tadpole"? I'm glad I amused you but why does that make me townie?
"Everything I need to know about parenting I learned from cooking. Don't be afraid to experiment, and eat your mistakes." - Cronos

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jimbobmacdoodle
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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D1)

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:59 pm UTC

"My liege, here are the vote counts you asked me to keep track of."

Votals:

wam (3): plytho, LaserGuy, MasterOfAll
MasterOfAll (2): wam, BoomFrog

(Please let me know if there are any mistakes).

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline will be 9pm UTC, Wednesday 19th December in 48 hours.
Last edited by jimbobmacdoodle on Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:54 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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wam
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Re: Secret Santa 2018: A Christmas Knight (D1)

Postby wam » Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:01 pm UTC

Boomfrog is voting twice?
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