The Darker Side of the News

Seen something interesting in the news or on the intertubes? Discuss it here.

Moderators: Zamfir, Hawknc, Moderators General, Prelates

User avatar
ObsessoMom
Nespresso Bomb
Posts: 930
Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 5:28 pm UTC

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby ObsessoMom » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:24 pm UTC

Zohar wrote:
gd1 wrote:


It seems they're equal opportunity then. Why isn't this in the news?

Listen to better news.


Senators Marco Rubio and Chris Smith have been making noise about China's repression of Christianity. So has Sen. Ted Cruz, but I think people can be forgiven for not paying much attention to Ted Cruz.

The New York Times reported on the repression of Christian groups back in December. That article noted that the Vatican has been pretty quiet about it due to ongoing negotiations over the Chinese government's role in the appointment of bishops there. (Full disclosure: the exiled bishop of Nanking presided over my Chinese Catholic in-laws' 1959 wedding in New York.)

[Edited to add: Then again, a lot of conservative Christian groups seem to be more focused on stamping out the freedoms of people in the US who are not conservative Christians than they are in protecting the freedoms of Christians elsewhere.]

User avatar
pogrmman
Posts: 624
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 10:53 pm UTC
Location: Probably outside

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby pogrmman » Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:50 am UTC

I just came across this article about a massacre in Haiti. (Contains somewhat graphic images.) Apparently, it was either executed by corrupt police or by gangs dressed like police (or by ordinary, non-corrupt police). Regardless, it’s not good.

gd1
Posts: 376
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:42 am UTC

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby gd1 » Tue Jan 29, 2019 5:29 am UTC

China Has Detained More Than a Million Muslims | Op-Ed | NowThis [Youtube Video]

Though since mentioning God can get you sent to the camps I think it's probably happening to Christians as well.
There is no emotion more useless in life than hate.

User avatar
SDK
Posts: 703
Joined: Thu May 22, 2014 7:40 pm UTC
Location: Canada

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby SDK » Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:09 pm UTC

Damnit, China. Get yourself together.
The biggest number (63 quintillion googols in debt)

User avatar
sardia
Posts: 6817
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:39 am UTC

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby sardia » Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:53 pm UTC

SDK wrote:Damnit, China. Get yourself together.

It won't get better unless the economy collapses. And that means the world economy goes into recession. Expect things to get worse either way.

User avatar
ObsessoMom
Nespresso Bomb
Posts: 930
Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 5:28 pm UTC

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby ObsessoMom » Tue Jan 29, 2019 8:41 pm UTC

gd1 wrote:China Has Detained More Than a Million Muslims | Op-Ed | NowThis [Youtube Video]

Though since mentioning God can get you sent to the camps I think it's probably happening to Christians as well.


I think suppressing the use of the expression "Inshallah" is more about the erasure of a distinct ethnic identity than it is about promoting atheism.

Not that that makes it okay. My point is that China uses different sorts of leverage against Christians, probably due to the fact that Christians in China include majority Han members, while Muslims (like the Uighurs) are more obviously "other."

For example, China seems okay with allowing Catholic bishops to function in China, so long as the Pope allows the Chinese government to have a role in choosing them. And there had better not be any statements against government policies. See this New York Times article from last year.

User avatar
addams
Posts: 10343
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:44 am UTC
Location: Oregon Coast: 97444

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby addams » Wed Jan 30, 2019 2:14 am UTC

Bad PayWall!
Bad!
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

User avatar
ObsessoMom
Nespresso Bomb
Posts: 930
Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 5:28 pm UTC

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby ObsessoMom » Wed Jan 30, 2019 2:33 am UTC


User avatar
addams
Posts: 10343
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:44 am UTC
Location: Oregon Coast: 97444

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby addams » Wed Jan 30, 2019 3:55 am UTC

Thank You for the link.
That is not so dark as it is icky.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-42914029
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

User avatar
Sableagle
Ormurinn's Alt
Posts: 2155
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2015 4:26 pm UTC
Location: The wrong side of the mirror
Contact:

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Sableagle » Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:19 am UTC

So, what, the government now tells them which 6-year-olds they're allowed to rape?
Zohar wrote:You don't know what you're talking about. Please spare me your quote sniping and general obliviousness.

CorruptUser wrote:Just admit that you were wrong ... and your entire life, cyberspace and meatspace both, would be orders of magnitude more enjoyable for you and others around you.

commodorejohn
Posts: 1201
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 6:21 pm UTC
Location: Placerville, CA
Contact:

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby commodorejohn » Wed Jan 30, 2019 2:21 pm UTC

ObsessoMom wrote:I think suppressing the use of the expression "Inshallah" is more about the erasure of a distinct ethnic identity than it is about promoting atheism.

Probably true, although it can be two things - and given how much Xi Jinping's government is leaning into the Make Red China Great Again philosophy of abandoning what progress they had been making in favor of a return to Maoism (c'mon, buddy, just jump right back into turning farms into steel mills, you know you want to,) I wouldn't be surprised to find out that it's definitely also about promoting atheism. But, as you say, there are probably distinct flavors of government-ordained bigotry and oppression at work here.
"'Legacy code' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling."
- Bjarne Stroustrup
www.commodorejohn.com - in case you were wondering, which you probably weren't.

User avatar
CorruptUser
Posts: 10550
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:12 pm UTC

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby CorruptUser » Wed Jan 30, 2019 3:45 pm UTC

I dont think it is about "Make China Great Again" or promoting atheism in particular, but rather just cold indifference to human suffering. China would rather commit genocide against the Uigurs than put up with the occasional terrorist attack, because a hundred injured Chinese is China's problem but a hundred thousand dead Uigurs is not China's problem.

User avatar
Grop
Posts: 1998
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:36 am UTC
Location: France

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Grop » Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:34 pm UTC

I suspect Han Muslims (such as the ones living in Xi'an for instance) aren't being persecuted.

User avatar
CorruptUser
Posts: 10550
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:12 pm UTC

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby CorruptUser » Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:06 am UTC

For now, at least. Basically, AFAICT, the Uigurs routinely have calls for independence and so forth, and rather than negotiate or ignore them, China just decided to eliminate anything that could become a rallying point. E.g., their religion, cultural identity, etc. In other words, genocide.

User avatar
sardia
Posts: 6817
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:39 am UTC

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby sardia » Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:57 am UTC

CorruptUser wrote:For now, at least. Basically, AFAICT, the Uigurs routinely have calls for independence and so forth, and rather than negotiate or ignore them, China just decided to eliminate anything that could become a rallying point. E.g., their religion, cultural identity, etc. In other words, genocide.

Don't forget the concentration camps/ slave camps.

User avatar
CorruptUser
Posts: 10550
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:12 pm UTC

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby CorruptUser » Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:52 am UTC

No, haven't forgotten them. I think they are "re-education" flavored. I don't know if children are being kidnapped and raised as proper Chinese a la the Canadian Indian residential school system, but I assume that's also going on. A million people don't go missing without quite a lot of children getting mixed up in the mess.

User avatar
sardia
Posts: 6817
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:39 am UTC

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby sardia » Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:49 am UTC

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/31/styl ... story.html
As soon as black women could afford to buy mink coats, white society and white women said fur was all wrong.’

I find it fascinating how people's perceptions of mainstream change as groups exchange roles. In most cases, it's sad. Like, do I not wear fur cuz the country hate black people? Reminds me of how programming used to be a girls job, underpaid and unappreciated. Now it's a top tier career, dominated by men. Seems kinda stupid to chase the American dream (act like white people) if all they do is change what's acceptable once minorities do it too.

User avatar
CorruptUser
Posts: 10550
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:12 pm UTC

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby CorruptUser » Thu Jan 31, 2019 6:32 am UTC

sardia wrote:Reminds me of how programming used to be a girls job, underpaid and unappreciated. Now it's a top tier career, dominated by men.


It's only a top tier job because demand far outstrips supply, nothing directly to do with it being "male". As soon as it can be outsourced or enough people can do it, you can bet that it'll be an underclass job once again.

User avatar
PAstrychef
for all intimate metaphysical encounters
Posts: 3071
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 6:24 pm UTC

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby PAstrychef » Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:36 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:
sardia wrote:Reminds me of how programming used to be a girls job, underpaid and unappreciated. Now it's a top tier career, dominated by men.


It's only a top tier job because demand far outstrips supply, nothing directly to do with it being "male". As soon as it can be outsourced or enough people can do it, you can bet that it'll be an underclass job once again.

Nope, once the glory of the moon landing made it sexy, men rushed to programming and all the stuff that they let women do when it was hours of calculating by hand and slide rule. Once it involved a machine it became manly. Soon enough “girls can’t do this because they’re girls became the norm.
If supply so outstrips demand, why are companies happier to import male IT workers than to train female ones from down the street? Why is IT such a fetid pool of misogyny and sexism?
Don’t become a well-rounded person. Well rounded people are smooth and dull. Become a thoroughly spiky person. Grow spikes from every angle. Stick in their throats like a puffer fish.

User avatar
Sableagle
Ormurinn's Alt
Posts: 2155
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2015 4:26 pm UTC
Location: The wrong side of the mirror
Contact:

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Sableagle » Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:12 pm UTC

PAstrychef wrote:Why is IT such a fetid pool of misogyny and sexism?
It's full of humans.
Zohar wrote:You don't know what you're talking about. Please spare me your quote sniping and general obliviousness.

CorruptUser wrote:Just admit that you were wrong ... and your entire life, cyberspace and meatspace both, would be orders of magnitude more enjoyable for you and others around you.

User avatar
CorruptUser
Posts: 10550
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:12 pm UTC

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby CorruptUser » Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:16 pm UTC

They import IT workers in order to undercut the middle class. Theres a reason that H1B visas are utterly despised across the US.

Most of the misogyny that I've seen in CS or IT is from guys that clearly arent getting action, so...

cphite
Posts: 1371
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:27 pm UTC

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby cphite » Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:06 pm UTC

Sableagle wrote:
PAstrychef wrote:Why is IT such a fetid pool of misogyny and sexism?
It's full of humans.


Yeah but those critters are around in every industry... IT really does seem to be extra awful in terms of sexism.

A few years back I had to get HR involved to override a senior manager who tried to stop me from hiring a junior DBA because, in his exact words, girls can't be DBAs. Fortunately we not only got her, she was around longer than he was.

And the thing is I've heard this sort of thing for decades... girls can't be DBAs, they can't code, etc, etc... and the really weird thing is that a surprising number of women seem to either buy into it or at least tolerate it.

solune
Posts: 121
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:58 pm UTC

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby solune » Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:54 am UTC

cphite wrote:IT really does seem to be extra awful in terms of sexism.


"citation needed". I've read some credible evidence that the IT industry is no worse than any other field.

cphite
Posts: 1371
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:27 pm UTC

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby cphite » Fri Feb 01, 2019 3:07 pm UTC

solune wrote:
cphite wrote:IT really does seem to be extra awful in terms of sexism.


"citation needed". I've read some credible evidence that the IT industry is no worse than any other field.


Personal opinion based on decades of experience.

The survey your article uses as it's basis is asking specifically about sexual harassment and assault; the sexism I see in IT is more along the lines of women being promoted less, people being dismissive of their skills and knowledge, etc. I don't have numbers on those things, but again, it's my opinion.

User avatar
CorruptUser
Posts: 10550
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:12 pm UTC

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby CorruptUser » Fri Feb 01, 2019 3:10 pm UTC

Based on my experience WRT the IT departments, Indians get in, work their ass off, but once they get to management level they hire/promote only other Indians. As virtually all the Indian IT workers are Male, well, it does add in to "male dominated" issue.

User avatar
Soupspoon
You have done something you shouldn't. Or are about to.
Posts: 4060
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:00 pm UTC
Location: 53-1

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Soupspoon » Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:38 pm UTC

I've never really noticed the biases, because I've never known who actually applies to work alongside me.

I've known barely any lady IT types°, but the problem may stem because there aren't that many who went through technical education like their male contemporaries (the fault for that being elsewhere than the HR department or the IT bosses). Ditto I know few male hairdressers. (The one I do know decided to try it after his career down a coalmine was cut short (NPI!) by Margaret Thatcher et al. I have no idea why he retrained for that, but it wouldn't have been his life's amvition under other circumstances, I imagine.)

Ethnically, I've worked with non-Anglos, including Asian¹ and Chinese² and even… French! Oh, and I worked in Germany myself, which naturally meant I was surrounded by… a whole lot of other French colleagues! None of the bosses (except the one in Germany) were anything other than British (one of my bosses' bosses was British Jamaican, ok?) and though the hyper-Scottish one may have favoured Scots on his team, the only clear favouritism was when I was asked by another if I minded that the new hire (who was a college friend of his) would be put into a slightly higher managerial role than me (I didn't mind, I'd wasn't interested in manageering).

That said, I've seen some dregs dragged into IT roles (white, British, male) and I've not always been a class act. I'm not entirely sure where we'd be without pioneers like Dame 'Steve' Shirley and her ilk, but even so many years later there always seems to be an initiative to encourage girls to continue from their usually better-than-boys early maths/science grades into higher levels or at least continuing dabbling.

Just a couple³ of years back there was a Girls Can Program sort of initiative through a short TV series, but there's no way yet to see obvious signs of this or prior versions particularly filtering up. Not that I have the data to see whether IT departments themselves are a larger part of the problem.

(It seems I've just set down a lot of anecotal evidence that probably means nothing, compared with the aforementioned credible evidence. Have it anyway. It might as well be seen, even if only to be pitied for some reason or other.)



° - There have been a number at other offices in the same company as I was in, at a variety of seniorities assumed appropriate to their ages, but I made no rigorous study as to whether the one in charge of the whole European email infrastructure servers (for example) was keeping pace with similarly experienced men.

¹ - In UK terms, not US ones. Which means I'm guessing Pakistani origin, from his surname, or pre-Partition rest-of-India as he was an nth-generation local and I never really asked "but where are you really from, in that annoyingly condescending and/or accusative way some people do.

² - There were many oversees students from China in that University's roster, it seemed to be a catchment thing, like another Uni (that I didn't work at) had a Greek influx. But I never asked if my colleague had arrived as a student or just happened to be a localised person of Chinese heritage. Because it was as irrelevant (and irreverent) as the other footnote questions, as far as work was concerned!

³, perhaps. Or ⁴, maybe more.

gd1
Posts: 376
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:42 am UTC

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby gd1 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:08 am UTC

Anti-BDS Bill Approved by Senate Avoids First Amendment Questions - Bloomberg

Surprising that this bill got through with very little coverage at all.
There is no emotion more useless in life than hate.

User avatar
CorruptUser
Posts: 10550
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:12 pm UTC

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby CorruptUser » Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:27 am UTC

It's a sticky issue. Free speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences, so in theory this doesn't violate the first amendment. However, it's not too many more steps after this point before Wrongthink becomes de facto outlawed...

Chen
Posts: 5582
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:53 pm UTC
Location: Montreal

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Chen » Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:49 am UTC

How do those BDS boycotts get around discrimination laws? Or are there not any of those that restrict business practices outside of employment? Like could a buisiness decide to boycott all black owned businesses or something?

User avatar
CorruptUser
Posts: 10550
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:12 pm UTC

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby CorruptUser » Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:45 pm UTC

While anti-Israel is usually just a cover for antisemitism, being anti Israel in itself is not antisemitic, it's just a massive red flag, sort of like supporting eugenics in itself is not racist. AFAIK nothing prevents a company from refusing to do business with any company headquartered on an Indian reservation, so long as they arent "officially" closing their doors to native Americans themselves.

Chen
Posts: 5582
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:53 pm UTC
Location: Montreal

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Chen » Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:43 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:While anti-Israel is usually just a cover for antisemitism, being anti Israel in itself is not antisemitic, it's just a massive red flag, sort of like supporting eugenics in itself is not racist. AFAIK nothing prevents a company from refusing to do business with any company headquartered on an Indian reservation, so long as they arent "officially" closing their doors to native Americans themselves.


National origin is generally one of the protected classes, at least here in Canada, so it doesnt need to be a proxy for religious discrimination.

gd1
Posts: 376
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:42 am UTC

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby gd1 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:25 pm UTC

Chen wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:While anti-Israel is usually just a cover for antisemitism, being anti Israel in itself is not antisemitic, it's just a massive red flag, sort of like supporting eugenics in itself is not racist. AFAIK nothing prevents a company from refusing to do business with any company headquartered on an Indian reservation, so long as they arent "officially" closing their doors to native Americans themselves.


National origin is generally one of the protected classes, at least here in Canada, so it doesnt need to be a proxy for religious discrimination.


For me, it's about the way the Zionists are rounding up and executing Palestinian civilians. They call this process "mowing the lawn". Not that I approve of the rockets that are fired, but heartless killing of civilians is not something I can abide.
There is no emotion more useless in life than hate.

Mutex
Posts: 1492
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:32 pm UTC

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Mutex » Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:27 pm UTC

Also there's a big difference between boycotting companies from a country due to its foreign policies, and discriminating against people from that country.

Chen
Posts: 5582
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:53 pm UTC
Location: Montreal

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Chen » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:48 am UTC

Mutex wrote:Also there's a big difference between boycotting companies from a country due to its foreign policies, and discriminating against people from that country.


Still seems like it would fall afoul of nation of origin discrimination. I mean I can see how it would make sense for government owed or affiliated companies but any Israel based company? Even if they have nothing to do with foreign policy? Hard to see how that’s too different than just discriminating against a specific person from Israel.

gd1
Posts: 376
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:42 am UTC

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby gd1 » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:26 am UTC

Chen wrote:
Mutex wrote:Also there's a big difference between boycotting companies from a country due to its foreign policies, and discriminating against people from that country.


Still seems like it would fall afoul of nation of origin discrimination. I mean I can see how it would make sense for government owed or affiliated companies but any Israel based company? Even if they have nothing to do with foreign policy? Hard to see how that’s too different than just discriminating against a specific person from Israel.


Companies that are boycotted are ones like Caterpillar which provides help to demolish Palestinian homes. Also companies that provide aid to the military forces who are infamous for killing civilians. Not all companies are boycotted.
There is no emotion more useless in life than hate.

ijuin
Posts: 1153
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:02 pm UTC

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby ijuin » Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:50 am UTC

Mutex wrote:Also there's a big difference between boycotting companies from a country due to its foreign policies, and discriminating against people from that country.


The government is not one and the same as the people. It is perfectly possible to oppose a government without holding malice toward its citizens in general. This goes double if you believe that the government in question is oppressing a large fraction of its citizens. You can be against the government of Israel without being against the concept of the nation of Israel, or the Israeli people, or Judiasm in general, just as you can be against the Trump (or Obama) Administration while not necessarily being anti-American.

Mutex
Posts: 1492
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:32 pm UTC

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Mutex » Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:07 am UTC

ijuin wrote:
Mutex wrote:Also there's a big difference between boycotting companies from a country due to its foreign policies, and discriminating against people from that country.

The government is not one and the same as the people. It is perfectly possible to oppose a government without holding malice toward its citizens in general. This goes double if you believe that the government in question is oppressing a large fraction of its citizens. You can be against the government of Israel without being against the concept of the nation of Israel, or the Israeli people, or Judiasm in general, just as you can be against the Trump (or Obama) Administration while not necessarily being anti-American.

Exactly, the question is whether boycotting Israeli companies should be seen as a protest against the Israeli government, or malice towards the Israeli people. I think the former, it's a way of applying economic pressure to the government. During the 80's, people boycotted South African companies to protest against apartheid. Black South Africans were probably affected by the economic loss, but that was obviously outweighed by getting their freedom to vote. The same logic applies with Israel, the intention isn't to harm Israeli citizens but to force the Israeli government to change policy.

Chen
Posts: 5582
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:53 pm UTC
Location: Montreal

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Chen » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:29 pm UTC

gd1 wrote:Companies that are boycotted are ones like Caterpillar which provides help to demolish Palestinian homes. Also companies that provide aid to the military forces who are infamous for killing civilians. Not all companies are boycotted.


Caterpillar isnt even Israeli, but if its on the “list” of companies then I agree its not a blanket “boycott Israel” type thing which I guess I misunderstood. Also explains how you’d get around any discrimination. Which also then makes these anti-BDS laws questionable. What is being prevented if the boycotts are just boycotting specific companies that are supporting actions people dislike?

User avatar
ucim
Posts: 6896
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2012 3:23 pm UTC
Location: The One True Thread

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby ucim » Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:53 pm UTC

A boycott is ultimately just a bunch of people not buying stuff. I'm not even sure how one would prohibit a boycott. Force people to buy stuff?

Jose
Order of the Sillies, Honoris Causam - bestowed by charlie_grumbles on NP 859 * OTTscar winner: Wordsmith - bestowed by yappobiscuts and the OTT on NP 1832 * Ecclesiastical Calendar of the Order of the Holy Contradiction * Heartfelt thanks from addams and from me - you really made a difference.

User avatar
Soupspoon
You have done something you shouldn't. Or are about to.
Posts: 4060
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:00 pm UTC
Location: 53-1

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Soupspoon » Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:21 pm UTC

The boycotts that I mostly knew about were the ones ultimately targeting South Africa for its Apartheid policies, forty years ago. But the direct targets, other than SA produce (oranges, etc) tended to be local companies who dealt with SA (ideally the regime, but not necessarily) in some undefined proportion of their oversees trade, but it mostly helped if they were also morally reprehensible for other reasons (a high-street bank that the organisers felt slighted by, a bookshop that was also stocking publications of misogynous nature, a fuel company that (like all the rest!) was famously environmentally polluting) to edge it up as one of the highest possible targets sticking up above the parapet.

Caterpillar sold dozers to Israel (or into Israel, or to suppliers who supplied (into) Israel) and were identifiably involved given their usually self-labelled equipment, so they'd be an easy target. Never mind that they supply to(into/onwards to-or-into) every country, more or less. If Lichtenstein was bulldozing a minority's homes, you bet it'd be Caterpillar, and if Israel was coordinating relief and rebuilding efforts after earthquake damage in some neighbouring state/sub-state then Cat would likely be similarly prominent in the vehicles they send.

Not sure what not buying from Caterpillar in a non-Israeli context would do. Even if they didn't supply the regime any more, for several years the equipment already there would still work (good luck trying to repossess them if they were leased, and the regime truly is stubborn enough), and even after that the local engineers could bodge some of them to work by cannibalising others. Never mind if a local fabricator gets a government contract to create officially-unofficial 'copy' parts, or a grey-market import chain is established/strengthened.

But it's a message. Whatever floats your boat/sinks your drink. And the message can be stronger if there's people trying to explain that there is no message, if you play it in the right way. Not that that's a given.


Return to “News & Articles”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 15 guests