Wams belated simple game - Day 3

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wam
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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby wam » Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:21 pm UTC

plytho wrote:could we get a deadline clock (I liked how SuicideJunkie put them in the OP)


https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/g ... nt=cursive

Will add it to the OP
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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby Sabrar » Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:59 pm UTC

Game is too slow.

Vote: LaserGuy

I'm not going to convince anyone of this, right? :roll:

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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby plytho » Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:03 pm UTC

Not with that attitude :?
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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby bessie » Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:06 pm UTC

Hey guys did you miss me??? Sorry for not returning last night, but I had a really long day at work because we are moving so I was really tired and on top of everything else I was trying to file a bunch of papers quickly because the movers wanted to take the file cabinet and I had three drawers open and it fell on me and now I have bruises all over my arms and on one leg.

Madge wrote:Sabrar's doing well. But that's his talent. I feel if he was scum he'd ask his question about coded communication privately.
My brain may have finally reached mafia overload (or perhaps this is just that I’m actually role playing Madge all too well). I have this vague memory that this came up in a game before, and it was important, and Sabrar disagreed on a mod ruling, and maybe that’s why he wanted to get the question and answer out there now, and this is NAI. Was it Meta Mafia, which had a similar setup? I hate not having bessie-recall and I sure hope having Madge-meta is reversible.

Madge wrote:((((((((bessie do you want to comod a game called the mafia wedding of madge and bessie it would somehow be extremely meta?)))))))
Hahaha maybe you should put it on the schedule for 2020 when you return from your FUN EXCITING SIX MONTH ADVENTURE IN PARIS!!! (and not in San Francisco :( )

Sabrar wrote:@bessie: what do you think of LaserGuy?
I think he’s totally awesome because he studied physics and he would be amazingly amazing if he studied astrophysics but I’m guessing he probably did something related to lasers. [And LaserGuy, how did you miss this? Did I totally neglect to share any stories of my extremely short stint as the world’s most accident-prone physics teacher???]

Sabrar wrote:TpsM7mbnLS

Apologies for that, a puppy must have jumped on my keyboard.
That is an interesting string of characters for puppy paw. She hit the caps and missed the space bar. Or is this a code for LaserGuy?

jimbobmacdoodle wrote: I got townie pings from Sabrar, similar to Madge's. I don't think he'd have asked all the questions he did in public.
Really? Which question in particular did you think scum would have asked privately, and not repeated in-thread so they could be seen asking?

LaserGuy wrote:Your bessie is showing a bit in this post ;)
It’s difficult being Madge. I don’t know how she does it full time.

Madge wrote:You for trying to get a townie with poor scumdar to kill someone :lol:
This is the most brilliant comment so far this game. plytho is bumped to second place.

plytho wrote:You're not wrong but you're missing the point I'm making entirely.
I’m Madge. Point missing is going to happen.

Sabrar wrote:Here are some other snippets where I read people townie. Do you think they are forced too?
I find your stated reason (the Vroomfondel quote) for finding somitomi townie forced. What are your reasons for finding the quoted snippets townie?

moody7277 wrote:btw, I think the LG-Sabrar scum thing is because they were the scum team in v1.0 of the game, which is moot but terrifying in hindsight
Was this in the spoilers, which I did not read? Because if this is true, it will affect my read, as it could be an explanation for the buddy-vibe.

Ninja'd by Sabrar and plytho. Back in a few hours, I have an appointment every other Saturday.

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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby Sabrar » Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:14 pm UTC

bessie wrote:Was this in the spoilers, which I did not read? Because if this is true, it will affect my read, as it could be an explanation for the buddy-vibe.

@bessie: see here. Replies for rest later

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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby mpolo » Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:38 pm UTC

I'm kind of nonplused by the charge of active lurking, because I don't think I've been active at all. Just trying to keep up. A flavorless game gives less to grasp onto at the beginning, and has me flailing a bit.

RE: codes. Watching out for sneaky codes is not the same thing as knowing a code when you see it. We might get lucky and have somebody try an acrostic or something like that that someone happens to notice. However, I am well aware that it is unlikely that we will see anything, and the fact that they could agree to do it in their xth post makes it something not to spend a lot of time on looking into. When I made my statement, it was more a flippant statement about the setup than any sort of strategy plan.

Somitomi's dedication to the HHG thing is impressive, but makes reads much more difficult. We need a lot of text to say very little, and we only get vague reactions to things.

Bessie channeling Madge hasn't managed to get me to read her immediately as scum, which usually happens when reading Madge. I don't know if she's failing at her self-set task, or if I'm getting better about not reading Madge as instantly scummy.

The jimbob apparent looking for low-hanging fruit is the most egregious thing that I have seen. There's probably a little of that in his attack on me as well, though I honestly haven't posted much, so probably deserve the negative attention.
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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby Sabrar » Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:09 pm UTC

bessie wrote:My brain may have finally reached mafia overload (or perhaps this is just that I’m actually role playing Madge all too well). I have this vague memory that this came up in a game before, and it was important, and Sabrar disagreed on a mod ruling, and maybe that’s why he wanted to get the question and answer out there now, and this is NAI. Was it Meta Mafia, which had a similar setup? I hate not having bessie-recall and I sure hope having Madge-meta is reversible.
I can think of 2 recent examples. I questioned rule 7 in Secret Santa. Here are two examples (from Town) of how people read me off it.
I had another discussion about mod answering questions in Texas which I explained it here. Some reactions from Town, you can maybe look for more.
Also, next time do your own research. I'm only giving you some slack because of irl.

bessie wrote:I think he’s totally awesome
Can you just answer the question you know I was asking?

bessie wrote:That is an interesting string of characters for puppy paw. She hit the caps and missed the space bar. Or is this a code for LaserGuy?
How much time did you spend trying to figure it out? Was it more than a minute?

bessie wrote:What are your reasons for finding the quoted snippets townie?
Madge and moody: these reactions come much more naturally from town, would need to be forced from scum.
plytho: he added that 3 minutes after his first speculation. This shows (imho) that he was still thinking about possibilities, scum would probably reply just once and be done wih it.

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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby somitomi » Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:54 pm UTC

Ford... you're turning into a penguin. Stop it.

As much as everyone loves it, I'm going to stop the Hitchhiker thing now as everyone knows what I'm up to by now. Finding quotes is ridiculously time consuming anyway, because I just get lost...

Unvote

Sabrar wrote:@somitomi: am I reading it correctly that you agree with LaserGuy's case on jimbob?

Not entirely. Any theory about jimbob as my buddy makes no sense from my unbiased townie point of view and I don't think jimbob would be this obvious with his actual buddy anyway (and I hope I wouldn't either). But Jimbob throwing shade about possibly benign stuff is plausible and even if it wasn't conscious he's pretty non-committal about all of these things. Of couse there's a NAI explanation for that too and I'm just about to do the same.
And your last quote, was it wrt moody or Madge?

I'm asking moody about his opinion on Madge. At the time she was the only one who didn't receive a "town" or "non-town" stamp in addition to the numbers.
mpolo wrote:Bessie channeling Madge hasn't managed to get me to read her immediately as scum, which usually happens when reading Madge. I don't know if she's failing at her self-set task, or if I'm getting better about not reading Madge as instantly scummy.

The bessie-meta is way too powerful apparently.

I'll do a reread later this evening to gather my thoughts
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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby plytho » Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:10 pm UTC

somitomi wrote:As much as everyone loves it, I'm going to stop the Hitchhiker thing now as everyone knows what I'm up to by now
Can you please translate your read on me. I didn't get it.
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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby bessie » Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:35 pm UTC

I’m back from my regular alternate Saturdays appointment!
Spoiler:
glitter nails.jpg
glitter nails.jpg (89.37 KiB) Viewed 620 times
Because I’m easy going, fun loving, good natured Madge and not mean spirited bessie-puppy, you get a picture of all five fingers!


Sabrar wrote:
bessie wrote:That is an interesting string of characters for puppy paw. She hit the caps and missed the space bar. Or is this a code for LaserGuy?
How much time did you spend trying to figure it out? Was it more than a minute?
A minute sounds about right. It was simple for my deviously brilliant Madge-brain.

Sabrar’s secret coded message wrote:TpsM7mbnLS

This obviously translates to:
Target priority, scared mostof 7: Madge-bessie. Nightkill, lynch, silence. [use strikethrough for emphasis]


Sabrar wrote: Also, next time do your own research. I'm only giving you some slack because of irl.
Hmm, I think there was something specific about codes or cryptography that you were unhappy about, it must have been Mata Mafia. Ok, got it, start here and read to the end of the page. I can see you asking this publicly as town or as scum, since there may be a mafia rolecop (and in Meta mafia the rolecop used a code to relay his result to his teammates).


Sabrar wrote:
bessie wrote:What are your reasons for finding the quoted snippets townie?
Madge and moody: these reactions come much more naturally from town, would need to be forced from scum.
plytho: he added that 3 minutes after his first speculation. This shows (imho) that he was still thinking about possibilities, scum would probably reply just once and be done wih it.
Madge- Whatever, pick any random Madge quote and you’re going to meta read her town for it.
moody- I accept your reasoning.
plytho- I need to think about whether or not I believe you would have had this thought when you first read plytho’s posts.


Sabrar wrote:
bessie wrote:I think he’s totally awesome
Can you just answer the question you know I was asking?
It depends. Are you annoyed with me me me?

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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby Sabrar » Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:53 pm UTC

bessie wrote:Are you annoyed with me me me?
Not exactly annoyed, more like disappointed that you don't have the normal time for the game.

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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby bessie » Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:07 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
bessie wrote:Are you annoyed with me me me?
Not exactly annoyed, more like disappointed that you don't have the normal time for the game.
Awww. I'm doing a very unMadgelike reread now. :)

The surprise move at work will suck up much of my time during the week, we're moving the entire shop and I'm exhausted. But since we're postponing the audit, I have some unexpected down time this weekend when I had planned to be buried doing audit prep.

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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby somitomi » Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:43 pm UTC

Since I'm trying to follow in BoomFrog's footsteps I might as well go all the way. So here's everyone grouped by reaction:
  • not reading into it: moody, Sabrar, mpolo
  • no discernible reaction: Laserguy, plytho
  • confused by it: jimbob
  • totally gets it: bessie
  • loves it: Madge (love you too)
Not reacting to the oddity at all is pretty weird in my opinion, and jimbob's confusion feels off to me as well. The other reactions seem to be in line with whoever they were coming from.

Expanded Harmless-Vogon gradient:
Sabrar: business as usual, driving the game like a hound.
moody: nice detailed reads, zero pings
plytho: feels like the usual observant plytho except for the abovementioned lack of reaction
bessie: the Madge impersonation created some fluff there, but some of her posts were more bessie-like. Neutral (=I have no idea how to read that)
Madge: slightly weird dismissal of Laserguy's case on Jimbob and yours truly, normal Madge otherwise
mpolo: very little to go on here, the talk about setup and codes is a bit active lurky
jimbob: seemed to play as I'd expect. I'm not sure about LaserGuy's case (the post in question felt stream-of-consciousness to me at first) but his explanation about tunneling is off
Laserguy: I found his early impressions odd and same goes for his vote on me. I'm not too sure about his case on Jimbob either, maybe because that involves me as well (yay for OMGUS)
That doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense, but I'm not thinking in scumteams yet, it's D1 for Zarquon's sake.
plytho wrote:
somitomi wrote:As much as everyone loves it, I'm going to stop the Hitchhiker thing now as everyone knows what I'm up to by now
Can you please translate your read on me. I didn't get it.

Oh bummer, I really thought I found such an apt quote for that one. When I made the first list I found your content lacking, but my opinion has improved a lot since then.
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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:09 am UTC

Sorry guys, it's been a busy day with family, and I'm not expecting tomorrow to be much better, but I'll try to get a post or two in at some point.
Sabrar wrote:And why is this alignment-indicative for either of them? Check the last Secret Santa for an example.
It's not massively, hence the question marks, but I was trying to make a judgement on everyone, and with what little content there was at the time, that's how I felt about them. I did get scum pings from mpolo's sheeping after making that post, as mentioned, so I'm more comfortable in that read for now. I'll try to get some stronger opinions down later.

I need to update my read of plytho. My original vote reasons no longer hold based on his more recent content.

Unvote

@plytho - why do you have Sabrar and LaserGuy as town?
bessie wrote:In case you haven’t figured out the joke yet, somitomi has not said one word (apart from his vote for me and his town-scum list) that is not a quote from The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy (his opener, the breakfast cereal comment, everything). And I’m totally cool with it. But your town lean on somitomi is odd considering it you were previously unfamiliar with the book, and in context given your reasons for your gut reads on other players. How is somitomi town for, well, what can be considered a lot of active lurking (that is quickly becoming just lurking), when you scum lean on others that have posted actual content for active lurking?
I figured that somitomi was doing something akin to a BoomGambit. I didn't necessarily understand the source of his content, but I could tell it was quotes, and somebody else pointed to HGTTG earlier. I was having trouble understanding the actual content admittedly, but I didn't think it likely that scum!somitomi would go to this extent of weirdness, hence the town read. I stand by that opinion. Whether or not it was active lurking would have depended on me understanding the content and deciphering what he was trying to say, but I don't think it would have changed things.

LaserGuy wrote:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:I do that all the time. It's why I have this bad tendency to tunnel at times.


I don't recall you doing much tunneling. If anything, my impression is that you make a deliberate point of trying to interact with everyone.
Maybe tunnelling is the wrong word. What I mean is that often once I've decided I don't like somebody for something that is often small and trivial, I stubbornly refuse to change my mind, despite what I see in others or later in that player's content. See my last game, I think (can't remember if it was that one or the one before, and can't be bothered to look it up), where I had one or two players (BoomFrog and bessie?) as consistently (and incorrectly) scum from about D1, despite mounting evidence to the contrary.

Sabrar wrote:Game is too slow.

Vote: LaserGuy

I'm not going to convince anyone of this, right? :roll:
Well, if you're not even going to try to make your case, then it certainly won't convince anyone. I got a gut town read of LaserGuy earlier, despite his pushing on me.
bessie wrote:
Madge wrote:Sabrar's doing well. But that's his talent. I feel if he was scum he'd ask his question about coded communication privately.
My brain may have finally reached mafia overload (or perhaps this is just that I’m actually role playing Madge all too well). I have this vague memory that this came up in a game before, and it was important, and Sabrar disagreed on a mod ruling, and maybe that’s why he wanted to get the question and answer out there now, and this is NAI. Was it Meta Mafia, which had a similar setup? I hate not having bessie-recall and I sure hope having Madge-meta is reversible.
bessie wrote:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote: I got townie pings from Sabrar, similar to Madge's. I don't think he'd have asked all the questions he did in public.
Really? Which question in particular did you think scum would have asked privately, and not repeated in-thread so they could be seen asking?
I don't remember which game this was exactly, but I'm pretty sure I was the rolecop and set up a code, which Sabrar disliked later. I agree that it's not a surprise that he asked the question, but usually when Sabrar is planning tactics that involve some hidden aspect of his role (e.g. his alignment or power), I've noticed he asks questions privately, at least based on when I've been a mod in games with him. Hence I don't think he would have asked this question in public as scum. It's not the strongest of tells, but it's what I've got for now.
somitomi wrote:As much as everyone loves it, I'm going to stop the Hitchhiker thing now as everyone knows what I'm up to by now.
How about you summarise the why you did it and the results of what you were up to? (ninja'ed - I'd still like the why).
somitomi wrote:Any theory about jimbob as my buddy makes no sense from my unbiased townie point of view and I don't think jimbob would be this obvious with his actual buddy anyway (and I hope I wouldn't either). But Jimbob throwing shade about possibly benign stuff is plausible and even if it wasn't conscious he's pretty non-committal about all of these things. Of couse there's a NAI explanation for that too and I'm just about to do the same.
I'm not sure I follow what you mean re. the non-committal bit. Are you saying that my "throwing shade" points were non-committal? What's the NAI explanation you're referring to, and what do you mean with that last bit in the above quote? FWIW, I'm feeling pretty non-committal with reads that are heavily meta influenced or based purely on content levels during D1, because I know that the reasons I've got are weak, and I ultimately need to find stronger reasons for a vote, if I can.

Ninja'ed by somitomi. I was confused because I was not expecting to see you do a Boom-Gambit. After that, my time-shortage has meant I didn't put any significant effort in trying to understand it (also, I'd already decided on my read of you). Why did you feel my confusion was off?
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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby bessie » Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:21 am UTC

Some current thoughts, I probably need a day or so to really think about the game, since I was so busy during the week and I was just making responses, not analyzing the content as a whole.

LaserGuy- I’ve said before that there is something about LaserGuy’s style that bristles me, but I think it may be because he reminds me of someone at my work with whom I continually clash. I’ve also said before that I think LaserGuy can (and does) present himself however he wishes to be read on D1, and I think that for these two reasons I’m never going to have a confident D1 read of him. I’m not following Sabrar’s concerns, but I’m still pondering, and will update later this weekend.

Sabrar – I was getting a buddy-vibe with LaserGuy from Sabrar’s posts, he questions LaserGuy and pushes him in many of his posts, and is scum reading LaserGuy when no one else is. But I can see some of the buddy-vibe coming from the shared joke that they were scum partners in v1.0 of this game (note however that this does not preclude them from being scum partners in v2.0). Still thinking about Sabrar.

jimbobmacdoodle- Scummy, or just rusty? There is so much oddness in every read he does of somitomi. Here he says somitomi is more lurky as scum despite some pretty active lurky content in this game. Here he says “ I got a townie read from his style due to how somitomi usually plays and the sort of person who he usually is.” Which again, I find odd, as somitomi is pretty consistent as town or as scum, and my own opinion is that I can see him attempting a gambit as mafia if he has a strong player as a partner (and this game is full of them, there are no newbies). Re his suspicion of me for pulling a gambit, that is a valid suspicion, but I think I have done something odd in most of my recent games, so I think he needs to make the case. jimbob, how does MadgeGambit makes me one of your top two votables?

Pre-post edit, ninja’d by jimbob while I was typing this out, will read and revisit later.

somitomi- I find it interesting (and disappointing) he gave up the gambit so soon. My gut is to award him a scum point for that, EXCEPT, he has a totally valid reason for doing so (finding appropriate quotes is too time consuming, and very susceptible to distraction). HOWEVER, it is interesting that he immediately went on the defensive, not the offensive, and may be a hint of the real reason. And I find his updated Harmless-Vogon list, well, “business as usual”. I feel I could have made most of those reads pre-game and supported them with applicable references later.

More later, I'm going out for a while.

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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby bessie » Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:12 am UTC

somitomi wrote:no discernible reaction: Laserguy, plytho
...
plytho: feels like the usual observant plytho except for the abovementioned lack of reaction

Hmmm, in my previous post I noted that somitomi's list gave me a feeling like he made a list and found comments to support it. I reread his post, and now I really think he is not reading closely or carefully, or he would have put plytho in the "totally gets it" group, not the "no reaction" group. plytho totally got it, and somitomi totally saw it, and even reacted here.
somitomi wrote:
plytho wrote:[
Would like to hear why somi doesn't like my poems :cry:

"What? Harmless? Is that all it's got to say? Harmless! One word!"


I'll keep my vote where it is.

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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby Madge » Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:05 am UTC

FOS bessie for completely torching the madge meta

I love your nails, i on the other hand splashed oil on my hand last sunday so all my photos of my hands are showing my burn blisters and then my dressing after i went to the doctor for some proper looking at.

i'm ready for D2, this whole thing about D1 existing is doing my head in. why didn't i sign up as a replacement again?
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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby bessie » Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:12 am UTC

I’m sorry Madge. I had to step back in to bessie-meta, just for a while, and post some content. The other puppy was getting lonely.

I'm amused that you take pictures of stuff like this, like when you sliced your finger last year. It's so Madge. Most sane people I know don’t want grotesque pictures of their injuries. :lol:

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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby LaserGuy » Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:28 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:Vote: LaserGuy

I'm not going to convince anyone of this, right? :roll:


:|

bessie wrote:I think he’s totally awesome because he studied physics and he would be amazingly amazing if he studied astrophysics but I’m guessing he probably did something related to lasers. [And LaserGuy, how did you miss this? Did I totally neglect to share any stories of my extremely short stint as the world’s most accident-prone physics teacher???]


I did both actually. I did astro for for my undergrad and optics for my PhD. I don't recall you telling any stories from you being a physics teacher (and I feel like I would remember) but would be quite delighted to hear them :D

bessie wrote:Was this in the spoilers, which I did not read? Because if this is true, it will affect my read, as it could be an explanation for the buddy-vibe.


I don't know if it was in the spoilers or not, but yes, we were buddies in v1. I had thought that was kind of obvious from context.

Sabrar wrote:Not exactly annoyed, more like disappointed that you don't have the normal time for the game.


bessie's content has been fine. [Meta]I think the amount of effort she is putting in even under time constraints is actually fairly substantial and is strongly indicative of Town!bessie. Scum!bessie would probably have used Madge-meta more as a crutch or just ended up lurking more. Contrast bessie in Stellaris[/Meta].

Hmm...
somitomi wrote:"That sounds perfectly reasonable," he said in a reassuring tone of voice, wondering who he was trying to reassure.

somitomi wrote: But Jimbob throwing shade about possibly benign stuff is plausible and even if it wasn't conscious he's pretty non-committal about all of these things.

somitomi wrote: jimbob's confusion feels off to me as well
[...]
jimbob: seemed to play as I'd expect. I'm not sure about LaserGuy's case (the post in question felt stream-of-consciousness to me at first) but his explanation about tunneling is off

I don't quite understand your feelings about jimbob here. Why was my case perfectly reasonable to begin with, but now you aren't sure? Why does jimbob's confusion seem off to you, but later he's playing as you expect? Um, also, his explanation for tunneling is in the post after this one, so... what are you referring to here?

bessie wrote:I’ve said before that there is something about LaserGuy’s style that bristles me, but I think it may be because he reminds me of someone at my work with whom I continually clash.


Sorry.

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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby Sabrar » Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:37 am UTC

plytho wrote:Not with that attitude :?
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Well, if you're not even going to try to make your case, then it certainly won't convince anyone.

People rarely agree with the reasons behind my meta-reads, whether they're right or wrong. Even in Texas, bessie was only lynched because of 'pot-odds'.
I think LaserGuy is scum because he generally didn't react to me at all in the beginning and was just fine answering questions I asked him. This goes completely against our history. He silently accepts me calling his start slow (contrast with plytho who had a much more natural and tongue-in-cheek reply), he has a gut town-read of me based on minimal content (which he knows I'm totally capable of replicating as scum). His case on jimbob is valid, however he immediately jumps to a jimbob-somitomi buddy-pair when I ask him about it. He had the chance to make that read earlier and I think town!LaserGuy would have done so.

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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby Sabrar » Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:41 am UTC

somitomi wrote:Since I'm trying to follow in BoomFrog's footsteps I might as well go all the way. So here's everyone grouped by reaction:
BoomFrog had mixed results when he tried to sort people the same way. You can expect almost any reaction from all alignments, especially in an open setup where we know you don't have a weird power or post-restriction and are just trying out a new style.

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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby somitomi » Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:04 am UTC

Quick responses before I leave.
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:How about you summarise the why you did it and the results of what you were up to? (ninja'ed - I'd still like the why).

Because I thought it would be fun. That's really all there is to it with a sprinkle of "now we'll have something to talk about on D1".
bessie wrote:
somitomi wrote:no discernible reaction: Laserguy, plytho
...
plytho: feels like the usual observant plytho except for the abovementioned lack of reaction

Hmmm, in my previous post I noted that somitomi's list gave me a feeling like he made a list and found comments to support it. I reread his post, and now I really think he is not reading closely or carefully, or he would have put plytho in the "totally gets it" group, not the "no reaction" group. plytho totally got it, and somitomi totally saw it, and even reacted here.

Oof, that's what happens when you finish up your reads post at one in the morning (full disclosure: my dumb ass didn't even get plytho's poem response for an embarassingly long time).
LaserGuy wrote:I don't quite understand your feelings about jimbob here. Why was my case perfectly reasonable to begin with, but now you aren't sure? Why does jimbob's confusion seem off to you, but later he's playing as you expect? Um, also, his explanation for tunneling is in the post after this one, so... what are you referring to here?

Honestly: me neither, I've been flipflopping about it ever since, thanks for noticing. I've even predicted how much trouble I'll have sorting him. The "tunneling explanation" refers to an earlier remark about the tendency to tunnel at times.
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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby bessie » Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:34 pm UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote: Hence I don't think he would have asked this question in public as scum. It's not the strongest of tells, but it's what I've got for now.
See my earlier post where I found the reference. I disagree, and think that Sabrar would have asked this question as either alignment because of the earlier Gojoe discussion, and I’m kinda surprised that he didn’t point it out himself. Perhaps he was counting on me being too Madge to remember?

I was pondering that perhaps I was having trouble reading Sabrar (and LaserGuy) this game because they (possibly) had already looked at the game from both points of view, town and mafia, and Sabrar would have thought of the rolecop question when he was scum, but while I was typing this out it occurred to me that the original setup wasn’t 8Matrix, it was Bird7P. So now I'm not as surprised he didn't remember the earlier reference.

LaserGuy wrote:I did both actually. I did astro for for my undergrad and optics for my PhD. I don't recall you telling any stories from you being a physics teacher (and I feel like I would remember) but would be quite delighted to hear them :D
Awesome, you get to be in the amazingly amazing group! I didn’t go to grad school for physics (I have a BS in astrophysics and an MAT in secondary science education).

And you want to hear about me me me? Cool I can ease back in to Madge meta.
Spoiler:
One time I was doing a demonstration for my high school students and I can’t remember what it was for but three of my fingernails caught on fire. This was back when my nails were really long, not the shorter, more manageable length they are now (see above pic, yes that is not that long for me). I don’t always react to things as quickly as I should so I was standing there holding my hand up in front of my face and staring at it like hmm interesting, and the flames were 3 or 4 inches high and it took me a few seconds before I put it out. It didn’t hurt or anything because just the polish burned off, and I’m probably lucky my hair didn’t catch fire this time too. It must have looked interesting but it is probably a good thing that this was years before teenagers had cell phones with cameras. So the class leaves and five minutes later the next class comes in and they all know about it already and I try to do the same demonstration but none of the kids are interested in the lesson, they’re all disappointed that they missed seeing me catch fire and they want to hear about it. So they keep egging me on, and I see that we’re not going to get anywhere with the lesson, so I raised my arm and lit up the other hand.....

I got called in to the principal’s office. Again. I spent more time there than most of the students.


LaserGuy wrote:
bessie wrote:I’ve said before that there is something about LaserGuy’s style that bristles me, but I think it may be because he reminds me of someone at my work with whom I continually clash.


Sorry.
Not your fault, I’ve already acknowledged that I’m the one with the problem! Something about you reminds me of my arch nemesis at work, the engineering manager, but he gave notice because of this move and soon I’ll never see him again. This week it’s “Aaarrgh, LaserGuy said something just like X would have said it, he’s so frustrating!” In a couple weeks, it will be “Awww, LaserGuy said something that reminds me of X, I sure do miss him!”

somitomi wrote:Because I thought it would be fun. That's really all there is to it with a sprinkle of "now we'll have something to talk about on D1".
And this reason is acceptable. I can maybe even accept that the analysis in this post was an afterthought. Except that you used it to support alignment reads, which really makes me question the authenticity of your reads.

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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby plytho » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:53 pm UTC

Sorry, busy weekend. Should have time tomorrow!
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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby Sabrar » Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:55 pm UTC

@bessie: could you try to be more decisive? Maybe with an ordered list?

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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby moody7277 » Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:05 pm UTC

So looks like I was right about bored!somi. Content is looking better, although the timing of the waffle re jimbob is something to keep in the back of my head. About the Madge read, I would have figured the large error bars would indicate why there wasn't a more definitive verdict on her.

Sabrar wrote:@bessie: could you try to be more decisive? Maybe with an ordered list?


I don't think D1 decisiveness fits in with Madge's meta.
The story of my life in xkcdmafia:

Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby bessie » Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:10 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:@bessie: could you try to be more decisive? Maybe with an ordered list?
Why yes I could! Or was this a request?

Total complete gut ordered list without rereading or even thinking that hard:

Woof
bessie
plytho
Sabrar
LaserGuy
moody7277
mpolo
Madge
jimbobmacdoodle
somitomi
Grr

If you want reasons, you have to wait until tonight. We finally had a day where the temperature was over 80 degrees F and it hasn’t rained for a few days so we took Hoku to the park and the dog friendly café for lunch and I just walked in the door.


moody7277 wrote:I don't think D1 decisiveness fits in with Madge's meta.
Oops you’re right. I’ll rearrange everyone later in a revised list.

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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:20 pm UTC

Sorry, I've not found any time today to post until now, and I need to go to bed. I may have a few minutes for a short post in the morning and again in the evening, but no reread is going to happen now. I'll be voting defensively to save myself, if necessary, or if I need to choose, I'll likely be sheeping one of my townier reads.

If people have specific questions for me, lete know and I'll try to answer in my morning post.

Could we get some updated votals please?
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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:26 pm UTC

Just double-checked the deadline, and it's 24 hours later than I thought it was, so I'll try to get some reads up Tuesday evening.
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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby LaserGuy » Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:38 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:I think LaserGuy is scum because he generally didn't react to me at all in the beginning and was just fine answering questions I asked him. This goes completely against our history. He silently accepts me calling his start slow (contrast with plytho who had a much more natural and tongue-in-cheek reply), he has a gut town-read of me based on minimal content (which he knows I'm totally capable of replicating as scum). His case on jimbob is valid, however he immediately jumps to a jimbob-somitomi buddy-pair when I ask him about it. He had the chance to make that read earlier and I think town!LaserGuy would have done so.


I have actually been intentionally avoiding getting into engagements with you D1 in my recent games (everything since Stellaris IIRC) as I feel it is generally unproductive for both of us. My read on you was meta, not gut. You asked me about a jimbob/somitomi connection, so I went back and looked into it; I hadn't considered it before that point.

bessie wrote:And you want to hear about me me me? Cool I can ease back in to Madge meta.


:lol: This made my day.

somitomi wrote: The "tunneling explanation" refers to an earlier remark about the tendency to tunnel at times.


What bothered you about this remark? Also, why are you still voting for bessie when you're reading her as Town?

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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby Sabrar » Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:00 am UTC

LaserGuy wrote:I have actually been intentionally avoiding getting into engagements with you D1 in my recent games (everything since Stellaris IIRC) as I feel it is generally unproductive for both of us.
This is difficult to evaluate objectively but I'll try.
- You definitely didn't ignore me in Newbie Mafia, you paid attention to what I was thinking/asking and scum-read me because of it.
- You town-read me in both Secret Santa and Meta Mafia without reservation, you were scum in both.
- You leaned town on me in WoT3 but you had reservations.
- Just for completeness sake: I didn't look at Alien Warfare because I was under early suspicion there and it derailed the normal flow of things.

Overall, while it's true that you limited your interactions with me in recent games, you also buddied me in both scum-games and you were questioning me when you were Town. So based on those examples you're scum again.

LaserGuy wrote:You asked me about a jimbob/somitomi connection, so I went back and looked into it; I hadn't considered it before that point.
You built a complete case in 10 minutes on something you haven't considered before.

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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:14 am UTC

I was trying to do a slim reread of some players on my way into work, and something Bessie said set me thinking more about plytho's original argument for voting me, namely that I "tried to act townie". Bessie noted that some players haven't appeared townie in a long time (she mentioned Madge, but I'd also add mpolo and moody from players of this game to this list), despite regularly being town (especially Madge whose town run has probably by now overtaken bessie's...). Plytho sort of dismissed this point, as not being relevant, without really explaining further. I'd be interested to hear what he would have thought had Madge decided to play a bessie meta secretly, in one or two posts.

Anyway, most of that is only tangentially relevant. My main thought was that I responded to his accusation with the point that it's normal play for me to respond to old questions once I get a chance, but plytho has yet to respond to that point at all.

On further read in the area, I also noticed plytho almost immediately sheeps LaserGuy's case on me, saying it pinged him too, without actually bringing it up when he made his point for why he found me scummy shortly before. This feels to me like a case of "oh, yeah, I totally thought that much better reason for finding Jimbob scum was a reason I thought so all along, despite never mentioning it before". In other words, a scum player who had previously fabricated a reason for finding me scum is suddenly presented with a much better reason, so adopts it.

One other minor issue with him is his complete lack of an explanation for his town read of Sabrar, and only minimal stated reasons for finding LaserGuy townie (he likes his case on me).

This is enough for me to replace my vote:

Vote plytho

That's all I have time for this morning.

Ninja: Sabrar's case on LaserGuy is interesting. I need to reread him next too.
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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby plytho » Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:00 am UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:I was trying to do a slim reread of some players on my way into work, and something Bessie said set me thinking more about plytho's original argument for voting me, namely that I "tried to act townie". Bessie noted that some players haven't appeared townie in a long time (she mentioned Madge, but I'd also add mpolo and moody from players of this game to this list), despite regularly being town (especially Madge whose town run has probably by now overtaken bessie's...). Plytho sort of dismissed this point, as not being relevant, without really explaining further. I'd be interested to hear what he would have thought had Madge decided to play a bessie meta secretly, in one or two posts.
The idea of Madge secretly playing a bessie meta is pretty funny and not an example of what I was talking about. By "acting townie" I don't mean adopt someone elses townie meta. Bessie missing the point and using those counterexamples was a bit odd, especially when she didn't try to address the point after I replied although that may all be part of her Madge meta. The fact that you bring this up in your defense is a bit more worrying. You know I'm not accusing you of taking someone elses meta. Why are you pretending like I am?

When I say "acting townie" I mean it looks like you're trying to play your own natural town meta, but since you're scum it doesn't come naturally so it can look a bit off. That's what I saw when you posted that bit about the setup spec.
Anyway, most of that is only tangentially relevant. My main thought was that I responded to his accusation with the point that it's normal play for me to respond to old questions once I get a chance, but plytho has yet to respond to that point at all.
It felt off in part because the question wasn't addressed to you, nor was it a general question.

On further read in the area, I also noticed plytho almost immediately sheeps LaserGuy's case on me, saying it pinged him too, without actually bringing it up when he made his point for why he found me scummy shortly before. This feels to me like a case of "oh, yeah, I totally thought that much better reason for finding Jimbob scum was a reason I thought so all along, despite never mentioning it before". In other words, a scum player who had previously fabricated a reason for finding me scum is suddenly presented with a much better reason, so adopts it.
Why do you think LaserGuy's reason is better?
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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby plytho » Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:08 am UTC

Huh, I thought I'd asked this earlier, anyway:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Re. plytho - he may be skilled, but even skilled players make mistakes. Perhaps he's a bit distracted and has let his guard down? It's early, so there's not exactly much to go on either way.
What mistakes do you think I made?
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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby Sabrar » Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:12 pm UTC

Passive town always loses because it lets scum direct the discussion. Post reads/lists people.

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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby wam » Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:00 pm UTC

votals

Bessie - 1 - madge,
Mpolo - 1 - moody7277
Somitomi - 1 - Bessie,
Jimbobmacdoodle - 2 - plytho, laserguy
Laserguy - 1 - sabrar
Plytho - 1 - Jimbobmacdoodle


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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby Sabrar » Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:49 pm UTC

plytho wrote:When I say "acting townie" I mean it looks like you're trying to play your own natural town meta,
Funny story, jimbob's natural townie meta is to look scummy because he doesn't feel the need to be careful about what he says. It's sort of the same (but not really) of how I gut-read Zenii correctly in Texas at the beginning.

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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby plytho » Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:01 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
plytho wrote:When I say "acting townie" I mean it looks like you're trying to play your own natural town meta,
Funny story, jimbob's natural townie meta is to look scummy because he doesn't feel the need to be careful about what he says. It's sort of the same (but not really) of how I gut-read Zenii correctly in Texas at the beginning.
Exactly! (I mean, the bit about being careful. I feel like jimbob was careful this game and it looked fake. I don't really think jimbob naturally looks scummy.)
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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby Sabrar » Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:08 pm UTC

I think that careful!jimbob would not have posted those wishy-washy opinions on 3 players in the same post, especially because all 3 was due to different style than normal.

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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby plytho » Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:22 pm UTC

I don't think careful!jimbob is the right term for what I spotted as it's too big. I think he's very good at playing his careless town meta as scum, but he slipped a little.
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