Wams belated simple game - Day 3

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Sabrar
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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby Sabrar » Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:43 pm UTC

plytho wrote:I think he's very good at playing his careless town meta as scum,
This is the point I disagree with. In both SS17 and Meta Mafia he played very safe and did not come under any suspicion D1 (to my recollection). He did not attempt to recreate his careless meta, which should have tipped me off but I realized his tell too late.

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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby LaserGuy » Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:39 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:I have actually been intentionally avoiding getting into engagements with you D1 in my recent games (everything since Stellaris IIRC) as I feel it is generally unproductive for both of us.
This is difficult to evaluate objectively but I'll try.
- You definitely didn't ignore me in Newbie Mafia, you paid attention to what I was thinking/asking and scum-read me because of it.


NNY was before Stellaris. NNY is out-of-order in the forum list because BoomFrog made a post in the thread 3 months after the game had ended. NNY is actually one of the games that convinced me to change my approach to you.

- You town-read me in both Secret Santa and Meta Mafia without reservation, you were scum in both.
- You leaned town on me in WoT3 but you had reservations.


In WoT3 I responded to exactly one question from you in D1 and otherwise did not talk to you at all. In SS2018, I didn't address you directly at all in D1 outside of my RVS vote. In Meta Mafia, I addressed you twice in all of D1, once where I was complaining that you had got to be Peaceful Whale instead of me (which I'm still sad about), and once in my "I'm so serious now" post. It's a deliberate decision on my part, and it's NAI. I am still evaluating your content; I am just going out of my way to avoid provoking you early in the game because I feel it improves my play.

LaserGuy wrote:You asked me about a jimbob/somitomi connection, so I went back and looked into it; I hadn't considered it before that point.
You built a complete case in 10 minutes on something you haven't considered before.


You asked me a leading question about buddy interactions between them so I went and looked. There were only a handful of posts to check. Not that hard.

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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby Sabrar » Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:48 pm UTC

You're right about Newbie, I didn't check. I've also already acknowledged that you've reduced your interaction with me, it somehow seemed more pronounced this time. However you didn't really address the buddy-ing comment. Please explain your meta-read on me this game as well as you can.

I have a lot of townie-pings and basically no other good candidate for scum. People really need to post more.

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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby wam » Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:04 pm UTC

Madge and somitomi have not hit the 48 hours.

Mpolo has been prodded
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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby plytho » Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:08 pm UTC

I was making a reads list over the course of the day, it's pretty rambly and I got stuck on Sabrar. I also don't know what to think about somi and jimbob.

- bessie: clearly an awesome teacher, also this quote seems to come from a townie place:
bessie wrote:I was pondering that perhaps I was having trouble reading Sabrar (and LaserGuy) this game because they (possibly) had already looked at the game from both points of view, town and mafia, and Sabrar would have thought of the rolecop question when he was scum, but while I was typing this out it occurred to me that the original setup wasn’t 8Matrix, it was Bird7P. So now I'm not as surprised he didn't remember the earlier reference.


-jimbob: still my top scum read mostly for early weirdness but the revote on me is also a little suspicious. It fits too well with his tunneling habit (that I hadn't really noticed in earlier games) and it allows him to postpone reads on other players by sticking to a read he already had.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:@plytho - why do you have Sabrar and LaserGuy as town?


I don't think jimbob is buddies with somitomi, though.

@somitomi: jimbob moved from second towniest to second scummiest, what happened there? Please explain in detail.

Somitomi: moving jimbob from top to bottom while moving me the other way feels like somi was sheeping jimbob early on and changed his mind after jimbob came under pressure. I think scumitomi sheeping townbob makes more sense than them being buddies as hard-sheeping a buddy seems bad strategy.
I like this line though:
somitomi wrote:That doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense, but I'm not thinking in scumteams yet, it's D1 for Zarquon's sake.
as that's how I usually feel D1 and perhaps scum would put a little more effort into the story.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:@plytho - why do you have Sabrar and LaserGuy as town?

LaserGuy: I liked LaserGuy's push on jimbob. He brought in new evidence. He came from an early gut townread on jimbob and I feel like scum are less likely to switch like that. Especially since jimbob isn't an easy target.

Madge: mostly thinking about mpolo, it seems.

moody: mpolo only scum read

mpolo:
mpolo wrote:I'm kind of nonplused by the charge of active lurking, because I don't think I've been active at all. Just trying to keep up. A flavorless game gives less to grasp onto at the beginning, and has me flailing a bit.
That's what active lurking is, isn't it? Lurking is not posting at all. Active lurking is posting some stuff without contributing.
I'm still wary of that code comment as it's the wrong takeaway from the info we got. On top of that this explanation of no flavor means nothing to comment on is odd as flavor is usually a pretty small part at the start of D1 and most of a normal game looks like what's currently happening.

Sabrar:
Sabrar wrote:Vote: LaserGuy

I'm not going to convince anyone of this, right? :roll:

I really don't know what this is.
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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby LaserGuy » Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:32 pm UTC

Reads:


somitomi:

I'm a little surprised to find that somitomi has a standard confirmation post instead of a HHGTG quote. This is a super weak tell, but I think it's slightly more likely that scum!somitomi avoid an unusual confirmation post despite doing a roleplay gambit specifically to avoid bessie's attention. I’m not having much luck parsing anything useful from his roleplay… it’s been, I don’t know, 15 years since I read those books so the context is meaningless at this point.

I’m a little skeptical of this list since the content at this point was fairly minimal and I don’t really feel that there was enough content from certain players to be able to sort everyone at this point in the game. It looks to me like somitomi was mostly sheeping other reads here, actually. At this point, I’ve read Sabrar, bessie, moody, and jimbob as townie and these are somitomi’s top 4. Sabrar is reading me as scum and jimbob is reading plytho as scum and these are somitomi’s bottom 2.

In his subsequent reads in this post, plytho jumps from scummiest player to Town lean; jimbob plummets from strong Town to strong scum, and he seems very ambivalent about jimbob overall despite this. Curiously forgets plytho’s reaction to his gambit. Again, my feeling here is that somitomi’s reads are more reflecting the prevailing mood of the room rather than coming from a genuine attempt to sort people.

On balance, I think there’s a decent chance he’s scum.


Sabrar:

Asking good questions, driving a lot of content. On reread I'm somewhat surprised to find that Sabrar has not really been sharing his opinions on anyone (other than yours truly) and a brief read of jimbob. His read on me doesn't feel forced; just incorrect. Noting that Sabrar appears to change his opinion on jimbob from here to here even though I'm pretty sure plytho and Sabrar are still talking about the same post.

I get a few townie pings from him and don't see anything too concerning at this stage. Leaning Town at this stage.


plytho:

I feel like maybe I should be concerned that I don’t find plytho scummy this game, since my normal reaction to him D1 is apparently to consider him suspicious and lurky. At this point, I feel like we’re mostly on the same page and don’t have any immediate concerns about him. Solid Town.


mpolo:

Basically playing within his meta at this point. I’m keeping an eye on people pushing for a lynch here because mpolo’s D1 content is fairly light every game and I think trying to lynch him on those grounds is just picking an easy target. mpolo’s content levels is IMHO more related to his RL stuff and is not particularly alignment indicative. There’s a few things that ping as Town to me in ways very consistent with how I’ve seen him as Town before, so I’m marking him a Town on that basis.


moody:

I actually agree with bessie’s pregame suggestion that in moody’s recent games he’s been much more transparent and seems to be making an effort to improve his scummy meta. I can’t really find any objections to his content at this stage, and I think his reaction to my early vote seemed to come from a genuine place. Leaning Town on him.


Madge:

Hmm…. I don’t really feel that Madge is playing to her meta this game. I haven’t quite been able to isolate exactly what I feel is wrong with her content. I think it may be that Madge is giving me a LAMIST (“Look at me, I’m so Town”) vibe than she usually gives off (and not just because she claimed Town). Marking her as scum lean for now because I think something is off, but I’m not sure what yet.


Jimbob:


I’ve commented already on my suspicions about jimbob as far as this post is concerned. jimbob doesn’t normally post in this sort of stream-of-consciousness manner as either alignment, so my inclination is to assign this post to him being rusty and/or short on time. I do not think that this absolves the scummy way that he describes people in this post. I don’t care for his case on plytho here. I think that jimbob is misunderstanding or misinterpreting plytho’s comments regarding “being townie”. I’m pretty sure this distinction has come up before, so I’m a bit surprised jimbob didn’t catch it (likewise with bessie, actually).

Hmm… I get some townie vibes from this post.

On the other, I’m not as sold on jimbob as I was earlier, but there’s still a lot there that I find concerning.


bessie:

As I noted here, I think bessie’s interest and engagement levels even under time constraints is quite consistent with her being Town. A good contrast here is Stellaris, which happened at the same time of year and she was under similar pressures, and bessie was somewhat frustrated and low energy for a lot of the game, whereas here she is obviously enjoying herself and interested in solving the game. Town.


Town
LaserGuy
Bessie
plytho
mpolo
Sabrar
moody
Madge
jimbob
somitomi
Scum

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Vote: somitomi

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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby Sabrar » Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:32 pm UTC

plytho wrote:-jimbob: still my top scum read
...
I don't think jimbob is buddies with somitomi, though.
...
I think scumitomi sheeping townbob makes more sense than them being buddies
What is happening here? jimbob is your top scum, somitomi is your second, but if you're right about somitomi then you're wrong about jimbob?

plytho wrote:I really don't know what this is.
I would have liked to gather more evidence but game was slow and I didn't want to wait with voicing my suspicion as that would have left us little time to discuss.

Ninja'd by LaserGuy.

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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby plytho » Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:36 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:What is happening here? jimbob is your top scum, somitomi is your second, but if you're right about somitomi then you're wrong about jimbob?
Pretty much, yeah.

Sabrar wrote:
plytho wrote:I really don't know what this is.
I would have liked to gather more evidence but game was slow and I didn't want to wait with voicing my suspicion as that would have left us little time to discuss.
It felt weirdly passive-agressive somehow.
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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby Sabrar » Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:39 pm UTC

plytho wrote:It felt weirdly passive-agressive somehow.
It was sarcasm.

@LaserGuy: could you please explain your meta-read of me?

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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby LaserGuy » Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:56 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
plytho wrote:It felt weirdly passive-agressive somehow.
It was sarcasm.

@LaserGuy: could you please explain your meta-read of me?


You're often much more direct and aggressive in the very early stages of D1 as Town. As scum you usually try to feel out the room a bit more before deciding who you want to push. I'm sure there's counterexamples where you've been more passive in the first couple of posts as Town, but I've never seen you do the opposite as scum.

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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby Sabrar » Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:56 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:but I've never seen you do the opposite as scum.
I feel like I did it in WoT3.

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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby somitomi » Mon Mar 18, 2019 10:37 pm UTC

moody7277 wrote:So looks like I was right about bored!somi. Content is looking better, although the timing of the waffle re jimbob is something to keep in the back of my head. About the Madge read, I would have figured the large error bars would indicate why there wasn't a more definitive verdict on her.

What about the timing?
LaserGuy wrote:What bothered you about this remark? Also, why are you still voting for bessie when you're reading her as Town?

It didn't square with my experience of jimbob
As for bessie, it was a random vote that I forgot about. I unvoted as soon as I remembered it, I don't know why it doesn't show up in the votals.
plytho wrote:@somitomi: jimbob moved from second towniest to second scummiest, what happened there? Please explain in detail.

Well, it's not that those two people moved a lot, the extremes of the list are well within one sigma of the neutral line so fairly little movement is enough to move them many places. While making the list some people moved a couple places up or down depending on how much weight I gave to my meta-based impressions. So plytho moved up simply because I thought he contributed more since the first "impressions" list and Jimbob moved down because the stream-of-consciousness posting was weird coming from him. Neither was a very drastic change in my impressions.

In order to avoid procrastinating on this, I'm going to
Vote: LaserGuy
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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Mon Mar 18, 2019 10:58 pm UTC

plytho wrote:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:I was trying to do a slim reread of some players on my way into work, and something Bessie said set me thinking more about plytho's original argument for voting me, namely that I "tried to act townie". Bessie noted that some players haven't appeared townie in a long time (she mentioned Madge, but I'd also add mpolo and moody from players of this game to this list), despite regularly being town (especially Madge whose town run has probably by now overtaken bessie's...). Plytho sort of dismissed this point, as not being relevant, without really explaining further. I'd be interested to hear what he would have thought had Madge decided to play a bessie meta secretly, in one or two posts.

When I say "acting townie" I mean it looks like you're trying to play your own natural town meta, but since you're scum it doesn't come naturally so it can look a bit off. That's what I saw when you posted that bit about the setup spec.
The idea of Madge secretly playing a bessie meta is pretty funny and not an example of what I was talking about. By "acting townie" I don't mean adopt someone elses townie meta. Bessie missing the point and using those counterexamples was a bit odd, especially when she didn't try to address the point after I replied although that may all be part of her Madge meta. The fact that you bring this up in your defense is a bit more worrying. You know I'm not accusing you of taking someone elses meta. Why are you pretending like I am?
I think you've misunderstood me somewhat. I wasn't saying you thought I was trying to adopt somebody else's meta, but rather that some players have naturally scummy metas (see Madge, moody, mpolo), and therefore looking townie doesn't just happen, but actively requires effort. If Madge had decided to try to look townie (e.g. by emulating a style she doesn't usually play), would you have accused her of trying to look townie, and therefore needing to be scum, for example? I don't agree that I have a consistently naturally townie meta. I think it depends on a number of factors, such as how much time I have for the game.
plytho wrote:
Anyway, most of that is only tangentially relevant. My main thought was that I responded to his accusation with the point that it's normal play for me to respond to old questions once I get a chance, but plytho has yet to respond to that point at all.
It felt off in part because the question wasn't addressed to you, nor was it a general question.
You're right, it wasn't. Apparently I missed the context of Sabrar's request, and just filed it away under "respond to later" mentally due to others also responding.

plytho wrote:
On further read in the area, I also noticed plytho almost immediately sheeps LaserGuy's case on me, saying it pinged him too, without actually bringing it up when he made his point for why he found me scummy shortly before. This feels to me like a case of "oh, yeah, I totally thought that much better reason for finding Jimbob scum was a reason I thought so all along, despite never mentioning it before". In other words, a scum player who had previously fabricated a reason for finding me scum is suddenly presented with a much better reason, so adopts it.
Why do you think LaserGuy's reason is better?
I'm not saying it definitely is, I'm saying scum!you felt like it was. I think LaserGuy's reason has more basis than the point you made against me, but it's hard to really elaborate why given I'm the subject of both (and therefore the points are wrong) beyond trying to think about it objectively (i.e. pretending I'm not the subject) where I find his point more persuasive than yours. A point in favour of this is that multiple people agree with LaserGuy's reason but have not mentioned yours.
plytho wrote:Huh, I thought I'd asked this earlier, anyway:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Re. plytho - he may be skilled, but even skilled players make mistakes. Perhaps he's a bit distracted and has let his guard down? It's early, so there's not exactly much to go on either way.
What mistakes do you think I made?
Not ensuring that you have plenty of content early on, to avoid getting accused of lurking.

Re. my meta/carelessness etc, I'm not sure whether this is a defence of Sabrar's or plytho's point, but I did say right at the start that I haven't got huge amounts of time for this game during D1, and possibly part of D2.
plytho wrote:I also don't know what to think about somi and jimbob.
To clarify, are you saying you don't know what to think about us as a pair, or individually?
plytho wrote:-jimbob: still my top scum read mostly for early weirdness but the revote on me is also a little suspicious. It fits too well with his tunneling habit (that I hadn't really noticed in earlier games) and it allows him to postpone reads on other players by sticking to a read he already had.
Like I said, I haven't had time to evaluate other players, due to RL issues. I will make sure to do so before deadline though. To be clear, I dropped my early concerns on you, based around your low early content, once you had more content. The new vote is based on completely different reasons to that original one.

That's all I've got time for this evening. It's taken me too long to even do this. I need to consider the LaserGuy and somitomi cases in more depth, but I still don't think scum!somitomi would have done the gambit.
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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby moody7277 » Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:11 am UTC

Major trends I'm seeing:

-Sabrar is scum reading LaserGuy, LaserGuy doesn't seem to be reciprocating.
-LaserGuy is scum reading jimbob based on his case of mudslinging, plytho seems to be sheeping this a bit credulously. (moderated in reads post)
-somi is getting attention due to alleged connections to jimbob

somitomi wrote:What about the timing?


Post here (1) voicing support of jimbob, which LaserGuy points out is the buddying here (2). The flip flop happens in your next post here (3), although it's a little obfuscated with the Douglas Adams stuff


(1) http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?p=4438749#p4438749 13Mar, 1331 (CDT)
(2) http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?p=4438916#p4438916 14Mar, 0350
(3) http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?p=4439318#p4439318 15Mar, 1346

@Madge: do you have an opinion on the strength of LaserGuy's case on jimbob?
The story of my life in xkcdmafia:

Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby Sabrar » Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:12 am UTC

plytho wrote:It felt off in part because the question wasn't addressed to you, nor was it a general question.
Are we still talking about this and how jimbob answered it? Because I agree, that question was originally only addressed to mpolo, still both moody and plytho replied to it almost immediately. So why would it be surprising that jimbob also felt the need to answer?

@moody: who is your top 2 for scum? Are there any big changes to your previous reads?

somitomi wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:Also, why are you still voting for bessie when you're reading her as Town?
As for bessie, it was a random vote that I forgot about. I unvoted as soon as I remembered it, I don't know why it doesn't show up in the votals.
There are no votals between your unvote and LaserGuy's prodding. LaserGuy just didn't read your content carefully enough.

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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby bessie » Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:36 am UTC

I’m tired! I thought I had another week but I found out this afternoon I need to move everything by tomorrow. The facilities manager was yelling at me when he saw how much stuff we had out and he said tomorrow he is shrink wrapping the whole office and throwing it on pallets, so I stayed at work late trying to pack the most important and fragile stuff.

Sorry I didn’t do complete reads, if you’re not on this list please do something blatantly scummy tomorrow so I have an easier time reading you. This includes you Madge. And mpolo; your D1 lurker/active lurker pass expires tomorrow.

I’m sticking with my previous ordered list, unless something interesting happens overnight.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:I'll be voting defensively to save myself
I think my opinion on this is known, unfortunately no time to find a link.

Sabrar wrote:Overall, while it's true that you limited your interactions with me in recent games, you also buddied me in both scum-games and you were questioning me when you were Town. So based on those examples you're scum again.
I don’t like this, it reminds me of some of your reasoning for scum reading me in Texas Hold’em which I still think was wrong.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote: I'd be interested to hear what he would have thought had Madge decided to play a bessie meta secretly, in one or two posts.
I’m interested to hear how you think Madge could have made two bessie-posts secretly. :lol:


Unofficial votals

bessie (1) : Madge
mpolo (1): moody7277
somitomi (2) : bessie, LaserGuy
jimbobmacdoodle (1) : plytho
LaserGuy (2) : Sabrar, somitomi
plytho (1) : jimbobmacdoodle

Not voting: mpolo

Hmm, I just made that list from the beginning since I haven't been keeping a spreadsheet this game and I wanted to get a feel for any trends, and it’s interesting seeing how many people are still voting to the same person they were voting for on page 1/2.

My last opportunity to respond to anything will be at about 7:00 am PDT. I really doubt I will be able to check in again after that.

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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby Sabrar » Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:43 am UTC

bessie wrote:I don’t like this, it reminds me of some of your reasoning for scum reading me in Texas Hold’em which I still think was wrong.
And it's extremely similar to the reason I scum-read SDK in Meta Mafia which actually was wrong. I'm fully aware.

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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby mpolo » Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:28 am UTC

This thing is getting away from me, and it's not even moving that fast. Not sure I was that long without posting to get a prod, though… But I'm here, anyway. I'm going to be out of the house most of the day, so I don't know if I'm going to be on again before deadline.

bessie: I have not seen anything egregious here, and seems mostly townie.

Sabrar: Taking a typical active role (which is a null-tell for him). His major suspicion appears to be LaserGuy. Perhaps less complete reads than usual.

plytho: suspicions on jimbob and on somitomi, but does not feel they can be a team.

LaserGuy's suspicion of somitomi is primarily because the roleplay starts after the confirmation post, as though he wanted to avoid scrutiny for the confirmation post. I think that's fairly weak as a reason, though he also cites sheeping. Has correct read on me. :)

moody: I haven't noticed much here.

Madge has made an explicit town claim, which doesn't mean anything, but is unusual.

jimbob feels off, particularly in a tendency to mudsling, and what seems like some attempts to go for low-hanging fruit. (Make a vague accusation, see if someone else runs with it.)

I'm not going to try a complete ranking here, but:

Townie camp: bessie, Sabrar, LaserGuy.

Unsure of where to class them: plytho, moody, Madge

Most scummy to date: jimbobmacdoodle

Maybe I'll get lucky and get back on, but I can't guarantee anything today.

Vote: jimbobmacdoodle
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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby Sabrar » Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:33 am UTC

LaserGuy wrote:On reread I'm somewhat surprised to find that Sabrar has not really been sharing his opinions on anyone (other than yours truly) and a brief read of jimbob.
Not true, I've explained townie-pings on 4 other players. Also see below.

mpolo wrote:Sabrar: Perhaps less complete reads than usual.
The usual was a long time ago. Lately I don't do full reads as I'm mostly focusing on my scum-pings. However I do make ordered town-scum lists.

If mpolo is scum his most likely buddy is LaserGuy so I'm good with my vote.

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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby Sabrar » Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:54 am UTC

@mpolo: why did you forget about somitomi?

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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby plytho » Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:16 am UTC

somitomi wrote:Well, it's not that those two people moved a lot, the extremes of the list are well within one sigma of the neutral line so fairly little movement is enough to move them many places. While making the list some people moved a couple places up or down depending on how much weight I gave to my meta-based impressions. So plytho moved up simply because I thought he contributed more since the first "impressions" list and Jimbob moved down because the stream-of-consciousness posting was weird coming from him. Neither was a very drastic change in my impressions.
It was in my impressions. When I interpret a reads list I consider the bottom 2-3 people to be scum reads and the top 2-3 to be town reads so moving people from one end to the other is a big deal. You're pretty much calling everyone neutral here, which is a pretty scummy position to take.
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:I think you've misunderstood me somewhat. I wasn't saying you thought I was trying to adopt somebody else's meta, but rather that some players have naturally scummy metas (see Madge, moody, mpolo), and therefore looking townie doesn't just happen, but actively requires effort. If Madge had decided to try to look townie (e.g. by emulating a style she doesn't usually play), would you have accused her of trying to look townie, and therefore needing to be scum, for example?
Maybe you misunderstood me? I don't see how those naturally scummy meta's are relevant here. If Madge was trying to look townie by using bessie's meta I probably wouldn't accuse her of being scum for that. If I felt Madge was trying to look like Madge I would call her out.
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:To clarify, are you saying you don't know what to think about us as a pair, or individually?
Both :D I'm having trouble making sense of some odd interactions between you two, which makes it harder to sort you individually.
Sabrar wrote:
plytho wrote:It felt off in part because the question wasn't addressed to you, nor was it a general question.
Are we still talking about this and how jimbob answered it? Because I agree, that question was originally only addressed to mpolo, still both moody and plytho replied to it almost immediately. So why would it be surprising that jimbob also felt the need to answer?
Because I didn't feel a need to answer. I answered because I was around and had time. I didn't think it warranted a "will get back to this".

Sabrar wrote:@mpolo: why did you forget about somitomi?
You know, I was just thinking about somitomi-mpolo as an alternative to jimbob. This fits with mpolo's jimbob vote (not somi because buddy, not LaserGuy because two scum on the wagon) and his dismissing of LaserGuy's somitomi read.
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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:38 am UTC

Going to attempt rereads of a couple of the quieter players whilst on my bus journey.

Madge:
Spoiler:
RVS bessie. Excited to play. Likes Bessie playing her. Thinks D2 late to claim. Claims town. Sabrar doing well. Would have asked code question privately as scum. No value in looking for code. Grateful for mpolo setup spec, but acknowledges it could come from scum. Somitomi should post more HGTTG. Nothing scum indicative. Mpolo both townie and scummy. Bessie being silly amazing. Would vig mpolo, but doesn't want to penalise mpolo for being helpful. Doesn't think much to LG's case on me. Doesn't put much stock into early interactions. Thinks should do post mortems. Setup spec could be scummy because helpful, but not alignment indicative. Doesn't think LG's buddying case on me alignment indicative of me or him. Thinks Sabrar buddying her. FoS bessie for abandoning meta and wants D2.
Most of Madge's content is very typical D1 Madge, but there are a few standout posts that veer from this slightly. For instance, she actually gives opinions on mpolo and Sabrar early, and responds to Sabrar questioning with items indicating her thoughts on me and LaserGuy. I'd give her town points for that, but it's weirdly a little outside her D1 meta. Still, giving her a maybe town read, but I don't know how scum!Madge would look.

@Madge - how was Sabrar weirdly buddying you?

Mpolo:
Spoiler:
Gathers thoughts with setup explanation. Likes 2 cop setups. Have to watch out for sneaky code, and know that we do. In response to me accepts we won't detect them. Should assume both scum know results. LaserGuy read on me pretty damning. Not reading anything into playful posting. Non-plussed by accusation of active lurking by me, due to low content levels. Sneaky code statement was flippant not strategy. Somitomi reads very difficult due to style. Reading bessie as slightly townie despite Madge meta. Me going after low hanging fruit most egregious thing. Reads list: bessie mostly townie. Sabrar town - less complete reads list. Plytho unsure - notes scum non-buddy reads on me and somitomi. LaserGuy town - somitomi not rping in confirm post weak tell. Moody unsure - not noticed much. Madge unsure - explicit town claim unusual. Me - scummy - going after low-hanging fruit. No read on somitomi.
mpolo's not showing anything to dismiss my earlier scum read of him. Yes, his setup spec was well within meta, but his sheeping to get a scum read of me isn't great, as he's provided zero original content to support it. Until his reads list he made no comment at all about a number of players, and his reads list doesn't really indicate why he has town reads of both LaserGuy and Sabrar, despite giving vaguely negative looking comments on them. I don't feel like his missing somitomi read is that big a deal unless one flips scum. Definitely reading mpolo as a possible scum candidate.

@mpolo - you talk about me going after low-hanging fruit. Do you think plytho is low-hanging fruit? How about my town read of somitomi, despite my apparent attempts to cast shade on him earlier, and the more recent votes on him?

At work now. Will finish this off this evening. No time to respond to plytho ninja now (if there is anything to note).
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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby Sabrar » Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:11 am UTC

PW forgot about his buddy when making a list in Fridge. I think mpolo would be more experienced than to make the same mistake. I'm very interested in his reply though.

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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby Madge » Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:38 am UTC

I took a couple of days off because I hate D1 FOR LEGITIMATE BUSINESS REASONS DUE TO MY IMPORTANT JOB WORK YESSS.

Also I'm going to Sydney for a few days this week so no computer. I'll try to remember to mobile post.

bessie wrote:I’m sorry Madge. I had to step back in to bessie-meta, just for a while, and post some content. The other puppy was getting lonely.

I'm amused that you take pictures of stuff like this, like when you sliced your finger last year. It's so Madge. Most sane people I know don’t want grotesque pictures of their injuries. :lol:


FYI Bessie, I have a BFF who loves looking at pictures of gross wounds, and also I was cooking her dinner when I splashed oil so I think she was especially invested in my recovery!! I am not a weirdo my friend is the weirdo. But yes, I still have a gnarly scar and reduced sensation where I cut my finger last year :(. Press F to pay respects.

Also I should start changing my avatars every week to gifs from the most recent survivor episode because I am a major Wendy stan at the moment.

BESSIE YOUR FINGERNAILS CAUGHT ON FIRE HOW I AM IN LOVE WITH YOU CAN YOU RETROACTIVELY BE MY HIGH SCHOOL PHYSICS TEACHER Oh me yarm

I should probably post some game content so here's the most terrible reads list I've ever made, zero justification and I WILL NOT BE responding to requests for elaboration. This list is for entertainment purposes only and should not be construed as financial advice. ETC.

YAY
Madge
bessie (i liked whatshisface's point about scum!bessie being less bessie and more madge)
Sabrar
mpolo
LaserGuy
plytho
jimbobmacdoodle
somitomi
moody7277 (i don't remember you saying anything so it probably hasn't been useful townie stuff that you've said)
BOO

@jimbob: buddying was the wrong word for the vibe Sabrar gave me, I more meant he was... helping me? He was asking me a lot of questions and being very... helpful to try to make sure I played well? Which you know I really should encourage people to do.

especially Madge whose town run has probably by now overtaken bessie's...


DID I MENTION I AM TOWN AND GETTING FRUSTRATED BECAUSE I AM GOING AWAY FOR SIX MONTHS AND NOT PLAYING MAFIA AND I WOULD LIKE TO BE ABLE TO BENEFIT FROM MY SHITTY META AS A MAFIA PLAYER AT LEAST ONCE BEFORE THEN AND IT"S NOT HAPPENING :( :( :(

ALSO BESSIE I HAVE VERY IMPORTANT NEWS FROM MY DOG WALK THIS AFTERNOON:
Spoiler:
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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby Madge » Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:39 am UTC

btw i just noticed the other guy in the very edge of the photo is wearing shorts, barefoot, and holding a can of beer: I am pretty sure he was a tradie of some sort and that is just peak aussie tradie so you guys enjoy that cultural exchange pls.
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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby wam » Tue Mar 19, 2019 12:37 pm UTC

votals

Bessie - 1 - madge,
Mpolo - 1 - moody7277
Somitomi - 2 - Bessie, laserguy
Jimbobmacdoodle - 2 - plytho, mpolo
Laserguy - 2 - sabrar, somitomi
Plytho - 1 - Jimbobmacdoodle


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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby moody7277 » Tue Mar 19, 2019 12:45 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:@moody: who is your top 2 for scum? Are there any big changes to your previous reads?


Well, the error bars on Madge aren't getting any smaller. :lol: somi is starting to settle at the bottom of my range on him, so he and mpolo are my top 2.
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby bessie » Tue Mar 19, 2019 2:45 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
bessie wrote:I don’t like this, it reminds me of some of your reasoning for scum reading me in Texas Hold’em which I still think was wrong.
And it's extremely similar to the reason I scum-read SDK in Meta Mafia which actually was wrong. I'm fully aware.
So explain to me why do I have to live with your meta reads?

mpolo wrote:bessie: I have not seen anything egregious here, and seems mostly townie.
What? I've adopted the scummiest meta in this game now that moody's rebooting and wam doesn't count.

mpolo wrote:Madge has made an explicit town claim, which doesn't mean anything, but is unusual.
Whatt??

Sabrar wrote: However I do make ordered town-scum lists.
I'm waiting.

Madge wrote:ALSO BESSIE I HAVE VERY IMPORTANT NEWS FROM MY DOG WALK THIS AFTERNOON:
Oh me yarm woof! WOOF! This is the MOST IMPORTANT thing anyone has posted, why are you all not talking about this? Do you not see WHAT IS HAPPENING? FoS moody for not even mentioning this crucial development in your post!!!

I will try to check in later but would be quick.

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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby LaserGuy » Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:05 pm UTC

votals

Bessie - 1 - madge,
Mpolo - 1 - moody7277
Somitomi - 2 - Bessie, laserguy
Jimbobmacdoodle - 2 - plytho, mpolo
Laserguy - 2 - sabrar, somitomi
Plytho - 1 - Jimbobmacdoodle


We have 5 hours left and these votals are dreadful. We need to consolidate.

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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby moody7277 » Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:58 pm UTC

Of the three people at 2 votes, my worst read is somi, so I guess that's my play.

Unvote

Vote: somitomi
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:05 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:
votals

Bessie - 1 - madge,
Mpolo - 1 - moody7277
Somitomi - 2 - Bessie, laserguy
Jimbobmacdoodle - 2 - plytho, mpolo
Laserguy - 2 - sabrar, somitomi
Plytho - 1 - Jimbobmacdoodle


We have 5 hours left and these votals are dreadful. We need to consolidate.
I'm not really liking any of the top three candidates, as I read LaserGuy and somitomi as townie previously. I'm going to try to decipher somitomi's content on the bus home. Will reread LaserGuy and anybody else I have time for after dinner.
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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:31 pm UTC

Somitomi:
Spoiler:
RVS bessie. Doesn't understand moody comment. Comments on code question by Sabrar. Not possible to decide hidden messages. Seems to agree with my analysis of his gambit? Town/scum list has Sabrar, me towniest, LaserGuy, plytho scummiest. Indecipherable comment about plytho's poems. Somitomi/me buddying too obvious. Thinks LG's case against me reasonable. Wants clarity on whether moody finds Madge scummy or townie. I'm being non-committal. Finds my confusion off. LaserGuy and plytho not reacting odd too. Has me and LaserGuy as scummiest. Did gambit because it would be fun. Doesn't really understand own feelings on me. Asks moody more about his read on him, wrt me. Defends movement on reads lists. Votes LaserGuy.
I'm still not seeing anything drastically scummy in somitomi's content. I guess some of his opinion changes aren't amazing, but I don't think they're entirely unreasonable. I do think he's reading too much into my apparent confusion re. his play style, especially as one of my theories appears to have been exactly what he was doing, and I guess this supports whoever's accusation it was that he'd decided on his reads order before giving any reasoning. I still don't think he'd gambit this way as scum, so my read is around slightly townie.
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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby Sabrar » Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:42 pm UTC

bessie wrote:So explain to me why do I have to live with your meta reads?
You should vote for LaserGuy and find out.

bessie wrote:
Sabrar wrote: However I do make ordered town-scum lists.
I'm waiting.
TM7bjsnmLS

I was willing to switch to mpolo but it looks like that won't happen. somitomi is not the worst choice (not the best either). People should vote LaserGuy.

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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby mpolo » Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:07 pm UTC

I honestly missed somitomi, probably because I mentioned somebody else's take on him. With the early Hitchhiker's stuff, I was honestly kind of skipping past it, rather than trying to puzzle out what was being said, and as a result didn't really form an opinion.

I guess there's not a lot of time for more today. I am headed to bed…
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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby LaserGuy » Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:01 pm UTC

somitomi wrote:It didn't square with my experience of jimbob


That's interesting. It didn't square with mine either.

mpolo wrote:LaserGuy's suspicion of somitomi is primarily because the roleplay starts after the confirmation post, as though he wanted to avoid scrutiny for the confirmation post. I think that's fairly weak as a reason, though he also cites sheeping. Has correct read on me. :)


:|
I'm confused as to how you would get this interpretation of my read on somitomi. I specifically said that the confirmation post was a very weak tell. My reads are not constructed form strongest point to weakest, but chronologically as I go through that person's content. This seems like such a random point to pick out of my content. Why do you comment on my case on somitomi but not Sabrar's case on me?

Why is Sabrar in the townie camp for you?

Sabrar wrote:]M 7 b j s n m L


*squints*
Is plytho n?

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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby wam » Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:20 pm UTC

votals

Bessie - 1 - madge,
Somitomi - 3 - Bessie, laserguy, moody7277
Jimbobmacdoodle - 2 - plytho, mpolo
Laserguy - 2 - sabrar, somitomi
Plytho - 1 - Jimbobmacdoodle


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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:39 pm UTC

LaserGuy:
Spoiler:
RVS Madge. Sabrar and me probably town, maybe also bessie. Moody feeling off. Plytho bandwagoning. Should probably give plytho a pass D2. Votes moody. Asks moody why he's confused by the vote. Vague about vote and for scum hunting. Asks bessie why moved vote from Madge to somitomi. Moody reaction genuine, moves to town. mpolo also looking town. Asks plytho to explain his scum read on me. Sheeps bessie and switches vote to somitomi. Explains reads (bessie intuition, me gutread based on tone, moody reaction test). Switches vote to me due to rhetorical throwing shade. Buddy vibe from me/somitomi. Thinks I'm going along with his gambit. moody joke seemed forced, hence poke. Asks Sabrar about somitomi comments. Found moody easier to sort recently. Further explains throwing shade comments. Has me and somitomi scummiest, mpolo, Sabrar towniest. mpolo's musings on setup feel unlikely to come from scum. bessie's content fine. Thinks effort is indicative of town!bessie. Doesn't understand somitomi's feelings about me and questions him about it. Convinced previously to change approach to Sabrar, and going out of his way to provoke Sabrar. Gives reads post. somitomi decent chance scum (sceptical of lists). Sabrar leaning town (reads not forced, just incorrect). plytho solid town (mostly on same page). mpolo town (consistent town pings). moody leaning town (reaction seemed genuine). Madge scum lean (something off). Me not as solid as before (some townie vibes, lots found concerning). bessie town (interest and engagement). Switches vote to somitomi. Sabrar usually more direct and aggressive early D1 as town. Votals are dreadful and need consolidating.
LaserGuy is somebody that I'm never sure how to read. I've learnt that he's not one to share opinions readily early on, which is otherwise something I'd usually see as scummy. Most of his early play broadly matches his usual. His argument for me isn't entirely without merit, despite my natural desire to OMGUS him for it. His reads on some players are interesting and conflict with some of mine (see mpolo, somitomi). I'm especially concerned by the mpolo read, given it's basically unexplained, and goes against the reads of several other players on mpolo. It felt somewhat like a buddy read to me. I don't really know how to classify LaserGuy. I guess slightly scummy with large error bars, using moody's style.

I'm out of time to re-read the other two, so I'm placing them mostly based on gut read and vague memories of what I've seen before. I'll try to get a re-read of them done early D2, assuming I survive that long...

Town
Sabrar
moody(?)
Madge
somitomi
bessie(?)
LaserGuy
mpolo
plytho
Scum

Of the two other leading candidates, I'd pick LaserGuy to be lynched, but that would tie-up the votals, so I'm going to leave my vote where it is.
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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby somitomi » Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:46 pm UTC

plytho wrote:It was in my impressions. When I interpret a reads list I consider the bottom 2-3 people to be scum reads and the top 2-3 to be town reads so moving people from one end to the other is a big deal. You're pretty much calling everyone neutral here, which is a pretty scummy position to take.

Which is exactly how you know it's legit. I've never been afraid to say it if I have no idea what's what regardless of alignment.
Madge wrote:YAY
Madge
bessie (i liked whatshisface's point about scum!bessie being less bessie and more madge)
Sabrar
mpolo
LaserGuy
plytho
jimbobmacdoodle
somitomi
moody7277 (i don't remember you saying anything so it probably hasn't been useful townie stuff that you've said)
BOO

I thought you loved me :cry:
mpolo wrote:I honestly missed somitomi, probably because I mentioned somebody else's take on him. With the early Hitchhiker's stuff, I was honestly kind of skipping past it, rather than trying to puzzle out what was being said, and as a result didn't really form an opinion.

I find this a little troubling, because I've stopped using hitchhikerspeak three days ago.
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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby plytho » Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:53 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:
Sabrar wrote:]M 7 b j s n m L


*squints*
Is plytho n?

I think n is neutral? I was wondering the same thing about the first list where jimbob appeared to be missing.
bessie wrote:Oh me yarm woof! WOOF! This is the MOST IMPORTANT thing anyone has posted, why are you all not talking about this? Do you not see WHAT IS HAPPENING? FoS moody for not even mentioning this crucial development in your post!!!
That is indeed awesome! Also, whenever I see a golden retriever my mind goes "bessie". (except for my parents in law's who's himself)

I think these votals are pretty useful. I was hoping to see jimbob break the tie but the fact that he didn't is also informative.
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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:57 pm UTC

plytho wrote:I think these votals are pretty useful. I was hoping to see jimbob break the tie but the fact that he didn't is also informative.
Did I miss something? somitomi is leading the votals currently. There isn't a tie to break...
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