Grades, Marks and Report Cards

The school experience. School related queries, discussions, and stories that aren't specific to a subject.

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Re: Grades, Marks and Report Cards

Postby podbaydoor » Tue Dec 18, 2007 7:26 am UTC

School boards and administrators talk to consultants and psychologists (and apparently as mentioned above, salesmen with standardized tests). They also pay attention to any scoring or ranking systems instituted by the state that will get them more money. They may also listen to any parents who might sue if offended.

Do they talk to the teachers? Do they talk to students? No.
Of course there's going to be rampant BS in all parts of the system, including grading procedures.
It will unfortunately cripple or at least negatively influence many bright/hard-working students.
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Re: Grades, Marks and Report Cards

Postby Solt » Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:07 am UTC

btilly wrote:
Solt wrote:Oh, and teach your son to work hard. I'm sure we've all read the articles that get posted here about how smart kids give up easily if they can't do something right the first time, while the dumber kids are told that failure is their fault for not working hard enough, so the slightly dumber kids end up accomplishing more than the smart kids.

I've read all of those studies as well. I accept their conclusions. But I won't exactly be doing that.

You see I figure that if you can teach effort, you can teach cleverness. In fact I'm quite sure of it because that's what my mother did, and her kids generally wound up 2-3 standard deviations better than average.

To be precise what we learned is that if there is an obvious way to do something, there's often a non-obvious way to do it with a lot less work. It is worth spending a little energy trying to find the shortcut because hey, it is only a little energy, and if you succeed you save a lot.

After a while you become good at noticing those shortcuts.

Ben


That kind of philosophy is just setting yourself up for a spectacular failure because sooner or later you will encounter a situation that requires plain hard work no matter how you look at it. This situation will possibly arise because your cleverness gives you the confidence to believe that you can do many things which you are not really prepared for.

Better to teach hard work and let the cleverness help out than to come to rely on your cleverness and be unable to work hard when you have to.
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Re: Grades, Marks and Report Cards

Postby Kizyr » Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:57 pm UTC

hipp5 wrote:A funny story about homeschooling: because I didn't go to school I didn't learn how to cursive write. To be honest, I'm glad I didn't. There has never been any use for it except one, my SATs.

Iori_Yagami wrote:You all are not alone. The single thing I hated most (except PT) was handwriting (and drawing... and making woodwork... OK anything with fine motor skills). I think it is mostly psychological.


F#*( cursive writing. Really. It's the most pointless skill I ever had to learn.

In 3rd-4th grade we learned cursive. We were also told that we had to learn it, because in higher grades our teachers wouldn't accept anything except in cursive writing (although I should add the disclaimer that my teachers were still really great, it's just that one minor detail).

In 4th through 6th grades, I had atrocious handwriting--because I was trying to write everything in cursive. In 7th grade, I forced myself to write in print again, and, suddenly, everyone could read my writing again. During college, also, I hand-wrote the rough drafts to a lot of my papers, and practiced writing really small (8pt~6pt) while note-taking.

These days, I can write faster than most folks while still using only print letters. I also get complimented on my handwriting occasionally (although naturally there's a tradeoff between neatness and time). You can learn to write using only print letters really fast and effectively, and your handwriting generally will be a lot more legible. The only thing I ever write in cursive anymore is my signature (and by now that's just a bunch of squiggles not meant to be legible). KF
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Re: Grades, Marks and Report Cards

Postby Berengal » Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:11 pm UTC

I learned to write cursively before I started to write print. I tried writing in print some years ago, and while I got up the speed after a little while, I started developing carpal tunnel syndrome. My handwriting is terrible to anyone but me (I'm really good at my own handwriting, and really terrible at anyone else's), so for three years I wrote in runes instead and gave the one teacher who had to read my handwriting a conversion sheet (The other teachers I had then only needed to read typed things for me). He's now a decent runeologist (or whatever that is) and budding expert on the norse language.
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Re: Grades, Marks and Report Cards

Postby Mighty Jalapeno » Tue Dec 18, 2007 3:27 pm UTC

I supplement public schooling with unschooling.
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Re: Grades, Marks and Report Cards

Postby Alpha Omicron » Tue Dec 18, 2007 5:17 pm UTC

Unschooling: What most really bright kids do anyway.
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Re: Grades, Marks and Report Cards

Postby Iori_Yagami » Tue Dec 18, 2007 5:31 pm UTC

I ask that people should be VERY careful with equating 'shortcuts' and 'laziness'. They are very distinct, and should not be confused.
If a college girl makes an easy 'shortcut' by asking her work to be done by her BF, then it is pure laziness.
When you do not want to learn multiplication table and rely on calculator instead, it is 'oops' rather than 'shortcut'.
On the other hand, not wanting to create a dozen of winforms called 'report1', 'report2' and so on, you create a base class reportForm and make it easy enough to parametrize it; it is a valuable 'shortcut'. If you do not want to memorize (a+b)2 = a2 + 2ab + b2, you can expand it in your mind instead as (a+b)*(a+b) = (a+b)*a + (a+b)*b = a2 + ba + ab + b2 = a2 + 2ab + b2. 'Shortcutting' is a matter of convenience, it never permits not to know your stuff.
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Re: Grades, Marks and Report Cards

Postby btilly » Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:03 pm UTC

Solt wrote:
btilly wrote:You see I figure that if you can teach effort, you can teach cleverness. In fact I'm quite sure of it because that's what my mother did, and her kids generally wound up 2-3 standard deviations better than average.

To be precise what we learned is that if there is an obvious way to do something, there's often a non-obvious way to do it with a lot less work. It is worth spending a little energy trying to find the shortcut because hey, it is only a little energy, and if you succeed you save a lot.

After a while you become good at noticing those shortcuts.

Ben


That kind of philosophy is just setting yourself up for a spectacular failure because sooner or later you will encounter a situation that requires plain hard work no matter how you look at it. This situation will possibly arise because your cleverness gives you the confidence to believe that you can do many things which you are not really prepared for.

Better to teach hard work and let the cleverness help out than to come to rely on your cleverness and be unable to work hard when you have to.

Gee, it has been a long time since I heard that particular argument.

It strikes me that we as a society do not value cleverness. In fact, worse than that, we're actively hostile to cleverness. We feel that there is something horribly unfair when we see someone else do the same thing that we did but with far less work. And we hope and pray that the universe will someday provide us with revenge.

But the universe doesn't work like that. In the real world if you take a repetitive task that had been taking a co-worker an hour a day and replace it with a script that takes 15 seconds to run, that co-worker is happy with you. Suppose you get a fairly straightforward report request. You could just do it. But you could instead say, "I bet that I'm going to be asked for something like this again, let me make it possible to run a variety of similar reports from a web page." Then do that and over the next month handle a series of similar requests by showing people where the report is that does what they need. In the end a lot of useful reports get run and you didn't have to lift a finger. If you do the first then nobody can fault you for doing your job. If you do the second, you become a valued employee. And you get nice things like raises and bonuses.

Now as I say, I hadn't heard your argument against cleverness for quite some time. I used to have people give me that lecture, but they don't any more.

Why not? Well because anyone who knows me personally knows that I have a good job, and an valued by my employer. For good reason. At my last two jobs I added millions to the value of the company, and I'm on track to do the same for my current employer. It is kind of hard to give a lecture to someone who is clearly doing well.

Now cleverness and willingness to work are not mutually exclusive. Certainly I wouldn't have learned what I've learned or accomplished what I've accomplished if I was allergic to work. But willingness to try to be clever is a lot more responsible for my success than willingness to work hard. So given a choice between encouraging my son to be clever or hard working, I'll choose cleverness any day.
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Re: Grades, Marks and Report Cards

Postby Noff » Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:37 pm UTC

There was a period in my life where my teachers thought I was mentally handicapped in some way, because I evidently could not read, write, or do basic addition. Really, I just thought hanging out in the small remedial room with a couple of kids was much better than being around a swarm of obnoxious classmates all day. Then one day, in what was proclaimed to be a miracle (it was a catholic school), I could do all of the assignments better than just about anybody in my class.

In related news, a friend of mine who is probably smarter than me was put into a similar situation because she moved here (Pennsylvania) from Florida, and the instructors thought her thick southern accent qualified her for sitting with the 'special' kids.
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Re: Grades, Marks and Report Cards

Postby qbg » Wed Dec 19, 2007 6:12 am UTC

The article "Grading: Not How but Why" by Alfie Kohn contains some very interesting insights into grading.

Basically, grades hurt more and help less than many people think.
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Re: Grades, Marks and Report Cards

Postby Diceman » Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:43 pm UTC

Here in CT, things are even worse... we're grading 2 and 3 year olds in day-cares! I took an educational psychology class last term, so I thoroughly understand where all items on the list come from, but it's still an insane amount of work for the teachers. I used this exact problem for a databases project, and I plan to try to market my solution to the Daycares in CT.

I think there's just a little bias on this forum... to quote my Interface Design professor:

"We are NOT normal!"

Every person who has posted on this thread (and probably everyone in the forum) is extremely intelligent, and in a society where we must conform to what the majority needs, we have often been shafted by an educational system designed for the majority who are average. We also don't realize (I'm guilty of this at times too) that most people aren't as smart as us! They need the re-enforcement of grades, or the fear getting bad ones, in order to be motivated to learn even the basic stuff we learned on our own.

I've decided that instead of complaining how the system sucks, I want to use my God-given abilities to make the world a better place in spite of everything The Man does to screw it up.

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Re: Grades, Marks and Report Cards

Postby btilly » Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:36 pm UTC

Diceman wrote:Every person who has posted on this thread (and probably everyone in the forum) is extremely intelligent, and in a society where we must conform to what the majority needs, we have often been shafted by an educational system designed for the majority who are average. We also don't realize (I'm guilty of this at times too) that most people aren't as smart as us! They need the re-enforcement of grades, or the fear getting bad ones, in order to be motivated to learn even the basic stuff we learned on our own.

That is nice and all, but when the system fails intelligent people, it fails society as a whole.

A higher percentage of people whose IQ is in the top 1% fail to graduate from high school than people of average IQ. (I forget where I saw this statistic last summer, but it makes a lot of sense to me.) They do so for a combination of reasons, but the primary one is boredom. In general people whose IQ is in the top 1% who drop out from high school wind up in menial jobs. (Note: we're talking about intelligent people, not wise ones.) That represents a huge waste of potential that all of society suffers from.

Do we care? Our actions say we don't. We spend orders of magnitude more effort trying to help people with learning disabilities than we do making sure that smart kids get through. This despite the fact that the smart kids would unquestionably give us a higher return on investment. (Let me be clear. I'm not arguing for shafting kids with problems. I'm arguing for putting energy into smart kids.)

I'd like us to reconsider those priorities. But I see no hope that we will do so.
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Re: Grades, Marks and Report Cards

Postby Diceman » Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:37 pm UTC

Thing is, people who are super-intelligent almost always have the curse of being completely socially inept. Therefore, no matter what "society" does to try support them, they end up being useless to society anyway. It's a complete paradox. The people who make the most noise are from the middle of the curve, and that's why the system panders to the middle intelligences. When a person with super intelligence can learn how to exist in society, we get huge leaps in science. Einstein, etc. Even he had problems with society though. Almost all the people we read about in our science books have depressing biographies. "Ended up going crazy"... "Killed his wife and kids"... etc.
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Re: Grades, Marks and Report Cards

Postby Twasbrillig » Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:49 pm UTC

I just got my report card for term 1 of the year today, and I got 5.0! This means (due to a long-standing bet with my parents that my first report card in grade 11 would be 5.0) I get a free laptop!

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Re: Grades, Marks and Report Cards

Postby btilly » Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:11 am UTC

Diceman wrote:Thing is, people who are super-intelligent almost always have the curse of being completely socially inept. Therefore, no matter what "society" does to try support them, they end up being useless to society anyway. It's a complete paradox. The people who make the most noise are from the middle of the curve, and that's why the system panders to the middle intelligences. When a person with super intelligence can learn how to exist in society, we get huge leaps in science. Einstein, etc. Even he had problems with society though. Almost all the people we read about in our science books have depressing biographies. "Ended up going crazy"... "Killed his wife and kids"... etc.

Popular stereotypes notwithstanding, plenty of very intelligent people are also very socially capable. I've known quite a few over the years.
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Re: Grades, Marks and Report Cards

Postby Insignificant Deifaction » Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:57 am UTC

So let's see, this is a subset of the overall "school sucks" series, focusing particularly on the authorities and how their efforts are fruitless?
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Re: Grades, Marks and Report Cards

Postby Mighty Jalapeno » Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:06 am UTC

btilly wrote:
Diceman wrote:Thing is, people who are super-intelligent almost always have the curse of being completely socially inept. Therefore, no matter what "society" does to try support them, they end up being useless to society anyway. It's a complete paradox. The people who make the most noise are from the middle of the curve, and that's why the system panders to the middle intelligences. When a person with super intelligence can learn how to exist in society, we get huge leaps in science. Einstein, etc. Even he had problems with society though. Almost all the people we read about in our science books have depressing biographies. "Ended up going crazy"... "Killed his wife and kids"... etc.

Popular stereotypes notwithstanding, plenty of very intelligent people are also very socially capable. I've known quite a few over the years.

My buddy T(rest of name withheld), for instance. You know that one kid who gets invited to all the parties, and goes to the ones he wasn't invited to anyways, and still has a blast? The guy who has to pick between three girls at a party, and decides to go with the two hottest ones? The guy who knows who to talk to to get meth, acid, shrooms, weed, or anything else (and it's often one of his older relatives?) The guy who ends up playing poker with Hells Angels, because they have good beer? The guy who plays the lottery professionally for three months because it's easier than work and lets him hang out in pool halls all day?

Now, imagine this kid also has an IQ in excess of 180, makes explosives for fun, and argues with teachers until they amit they're wrong. That's my buddy, right there. Good luck grading him.

Insignificant Deification wrote:So let's see, this is a subset of the overall "school sucks" series, focusing particularly on the authorities and how their efforts are fruitless?


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Re: Grades, Marks and Report Cards

Postby Insignificant Deifaction » Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:30 am UTC

That's not very nice...

And, I was intending to subtly point out that this, whilst an understandable grievance, is not new to the fora.
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Re: Grades, Marks and Report Cards

Postby Diceman » Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:33 am UTC

I guess it boils down to this:

Homeschool, FTW!
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Re: Grades, Marks and Report Cards

Postby Mighty Jalapeno » Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:41 am UTC

Insignificant Deification wrote:That's not very nice...

And, I was intending to subtly point out that this, whilst an understandable grievance, is not new to the fora.

Sorry. You can make a fat joke at my expense if you want.

Also, I don't think ridiculously graded report cards for 5 year olds has been done here very often.
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Re: Grades, Marks and Report Cards

Postby Insignificant Deifaction » Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:52 am UTC

I'd rather skip insults entirely. And, I meant that this is a new thing, one we haven't heard of, but I was certain there was a thread the original could have fit in. I couldn't find it though. So, moving along with the entertainment.
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Re: Grades, Marks and Report Cards

Postby tiny » Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:29 pm UTC

The one educational concept I can identify with (Maria Montessori's) doesn't involve grades.
Grades aim to rate your knowledge and skills concerning school, but what it boils down to is that teachers, classmates, and far too many parents make it feel as if your grades rate you as a person. An F rates the value of your being in a society that goes rabid when it hears the magical words 'intelligence' and 'performance'.
That's unethical in my eyes.

I can't remember ever being particularly interested in my own grades, though, as long as I passed and didn't get a C. I always hated Cs. A C is nothing. Not bad, but not good either. It was the un-grade for me.
But the lack of relevance of my grades for my personal well-being was heavily connected to my general contempt for society, my teachers, my classmates, the school system and their respective values. Had I given a shit about them my grades would have caused me to feel very stupid.
Why didn't I exel at school? Here's why: My grades heavily depended on my interest in a certain topic, therefore they plummeted shortly after I left elementary school (and I just can't calculate). I wish they would have graded me for the knowledge and skills I gathered outside school out of intrinsic motivation. But no, at best they teach the basics of something interesting, without any connection to the bigger picture. And that makes it: Boooooring!
I would have done so much better in a Montessori class, damn it!!!

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Re: Grades, Marks and Report Cards

Postby Antimatter Spork » Thu Dec 20, 2007 8:46 pm UTC

Kizyr wrote:In 3rd-4th grade we learned cursive. We were also told that we had to learn it, because in higher grades our teachers wouldn't accept anything except in cursive writing.


I was told this exact same thing. After 3rd grade, I never had to write in cursive again. (except on that stupid SAT paragraph).
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Re: Grades, Marks and Report Cards

Postby Likpok » Thu Dec 20, 2007 8:50 pm UTC

I think with the advent of computing, cursive became a lot less important. That's my theory, anyway, because I remember hating cursive.

Ironically, my cursive writing is more legible than my print under certian circumstances. Probably because I have yet to bastardize my cursive.
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Re: Grades, Marks and Report Cards

Postby Brontide » Sun Dec 23, 2007 10:59 am UTC

In all honesty, I think my primary school report cards were generally pretty accurate - "good at math, well above her age in reading and writing, enjoys listening to music, absolutely useless at PE and can't draw for s#*@." But really, although they picked up on things, school did very little to change anything. I was good with language because my parents taught me to read from a very young age and had a multitude of awesome books available for us at home - but over the years in the school system my vocab and comprehension didn't increase at the level they could have, leaving me in with the average lot by the time I finished highschool. I now choose to find interesting words I don't know for fun, but nothing about school ever encouraged such proactive learning. I didn't get any better at PE as we had to do relay races where the other kids'd just get irritable at me for being to slow or failing to catch the ball - so my fitness, too, came outside of school from dancing and tramping. My calculus teacher in my LAST YEAR of highschool would stand us up in front of the class if we didn't do our homework - how in the world is that encouraging people to be independent learners?! She treated us like we were naughty kiddies or something. All I can say is YAY FOR UNIVERSITY! There were a number of inspiring, passionate teachers at highschool (not the calculus one, obviously) but I think primary was definitely lacking.

So IMO report cards can be useful but I think they should be designed so as to point out strengths and weaknesses without giving actual grades, which take the whole emphasis (and fun) out of learning. Also, when you receive that report card, try & find fun ways that your child ENJOYS to improve on those areas - the school won't. I also really think kindy seems a little early to be bothering, and the one you got sounds totally useless! I suppose it could be useful to pick up early if a child is struggling with language or something so they can get extra help earlier though?
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Re: Grades, Marks and Report Cards

Postby RockoTDF » Wed Dec 26, 2007 5:36 am UTC

Mighty Jalapeno wrote:I supplement public schooling with unschooling.


Phew, for a second there I thought that is what you were doing full time. Home schooling has its fruits, but it rubs me the wrong way...maybe its because I'm an Air Force brat and all the homeschooled kids I knew had right wing christian parents trying to shelter them from EVERYTHING. I really have a hard time believing that most parents are in any way qualified or understand half the things they are "teaching" their children. I have to wonder what the SAT score of the typical pushy parent, or homeschooling parent, would be. (not that i like the SAT, but just as a basic measure)

We need to reform education, but the general problem is that kids are not motivated to learn, and are punished when what they do want to learn does not fall in line with their parents expectations or a curriculum. Whenever I read about unschooling and things of that nature, all I can think is "wow, sounds like grad school..." and grad school takes highly intelligent, motivated adults. Not average, unmotivated children. I think there should be more emphasis on independent study and less on standardized tests, as well as more vocational level courses for those that are not university bound that want to get more out of school. How many hairdressers do you know that remember a damn thing about chemistry?

If it were up to me and I were supreme dictator of all education, school as we know it would be changed (in ways I would have to rant on about for days) at the elementary level, and the high school gen ed curriculum would end around US 10th grade (16 years old). The SATS would be abolished, as would AP courses. Students on a uni route would do independent study work and research with a few courses of their choice to supplement their research, as well as a writing course. I wasted so much time in high school on subjects I could have been taught earlier on when I could have been *actually* preparing myself for college. Doing independent research is what gave me motivation to learn for learnings' sake. I had achievement motivation before, but not this. Research is why I want a PhD.
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Re: Grades, Marks and Report Cards

Postby Mighty Jalapeno » Wed Dec 26, 2007 5:56 am UTC

Full time home schooling also rubs me the wrong way. Sure, public school has the potential to suck, but really, what part of real life doesn't? It provides social contact that he needs, non-familial instruction and boundaries that he needs, and also about 30 playmates who have the energy level he needs (for a boy recovering from idiopathic non-rheumatoid juvenile oligoarticular arthritis with chronic anterior uveitis, he has a surprising amount of pep!) However, at home we encourage learning, we encourage asking questions (when we're free to properly answer), and basically do everything we can to help his brain develop outside of school. His grasp of some topics astounds me. After an idle conversation in the car, he proceeded to explain to people in my office just why good food is good for his body, using words like "dietary fibre", "pancreas" and "white blood cells".

Then again, he insists that rabbits have more physics than cats, because rabbits go faster.

...

He IS five...
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Re: Grades, Marks and Report Cards

Postby RockoTDF » Wed Dec 26, 2007 2:28 pm UTC

Mighty Jalapeno wrote:Full time home schooling also rubs me the wrong way. Sure, public school has the potential to suck, but really, what part of real life doesn't? It provides social contact that he needs, non-familial instruction and boundaries that he needs, and also about 30 playmates who have the energy level he needs (for a boy recovering from idiopathic non-rheumatoid juvenile oligoarticular arthritis with chronic anterior uveitis, he has a surprising amount of pep!) However, at home we encourage learning, we encourage asking questions (when we're free to properly answer), and basically do everything we can to help his brain develop outside of school. His grasp of some topics astounds me. After an idle conversation in the car, he proceeded to explain to people in my office just why good food is good for his body, using words like "dietary fibre", "pancreas" and "white blood cells".

Then again, he insists that rabbits have more physics than cats, because rabbits go faster.

...

He IS five...


Haha, "more physics?" At first I thought "Oh, here is another parent who thinks they have a brilliant kid because he can use big words he memorized..." but the rabbit thing shows that he is thinking about what he is being taught. Good job.

Please don't start bragging about your son though. In high school I had a neighbor who does that and the whole neighborhood can't stand her. Come to think of it, we had a lot of neighbors like that....

(not that you were bragging now, the context was ok)
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Re: Grades, Marks and Report Cards

Postby SecondTalon » Wed Dec 26, 2007 3:17 pm UTC

Mighty Jalapeno wrote:Then again, he insists that rabbits have more physics than cats, because rabbits go faster.
He IS five...


You mean they don't?!?!

My dreams of a rabbitbomb (Made By, From, and For!)... like dust in the wind now...
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Re: Grades, Marks and Report Cards

Postby Quixotess » Wed Dec 26, 2007 9:14 pm UTC

I'm always amused to see people's reactions to my grades. "You only have a 3.2? But you're so smart!" Sorry for giving you cognitive dissonance, dude, but grades don't really measure intelligence. I am smart, but to be honest I am a little lazy.

What about perfect grades? Is it bad to want my 4.0 friend to get an A- or something before she graduates? Partly I'm jealous, but partly I worry that it could damage her somehow...being perfect...that could be damaging, right?
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Re: Grades, Marks and Report Cards

Postby Mighty Jalapeno » Thu Dec 27, 2007 1:14 am UTC

RockoTDF wrote:Please don't start bragging about your son though. In high school I had a neighbor who does that and the whole neighborhood can't stand her. Come to think of it, we had a lot of neighbors like that....

(not that you were bragging now, the context was ok)

I'm proud, but I like to think I stop short of bragging (and I only shared the story about his little speech about the human body because it highlighted the physics thing). My parents would brag to absolutely everyone about me and my sister, and not only did it make us both very self-conscious, but it caused them to constantly raise their expectations of us, and eventually everyone else's expectations. I'm confident in my son's brainification, which is why I'm not worried about his schooling, or report cards anymore.
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Re: Grades, Marks and Report Cards

Postby Khonsu » Thu Dec 27, 2007 1:28 am UTC

Dear God, in my Catholic school in kindergarten (I escaped soon after, don't worry), I was reprimanded by the lay teacher FOR NOT SLEEPING DURING NAP TIME. I was reading a book that actually had chapters in it. It was a Choose Your Own Adventure book. I nearly cried when she took it away. I laid there and glared at her for 45 minutes. Then I was made to pass out the graham crackers. They made me take naps and play with other children during recess. I wanted to read. I wanted to read Goosebumps (which were confiscated for "inappropriate material" a week later). As a five year old. I can only imagine it was the most like Wednesday Addams I could get while attending Catholic school and being five. >_>

And then I wasn't allowed to drink water during the school day because my personalized plastic cup was stolen and thrown away by the other girls (there were only 12 kids in kindergarten, of which there was only ONE class for every grade, so you're stuck with these little fuckers). Yes. My teacher was such a fucking idiot, she wouldn't let me DRINK ANYTHING DURING THE DAY because it was a rule that every child have a cup with their name on it. My mom found out one day because my piss was bright yellow and I complained of a stomach ache. I wouldn't wish my mother's ire on anyone.

"More physics?" What the FUCK, MJ! You better go interrogate your wife because motherfucking Professor Xavier done crawled the fuck OUT OF HIS MAGICAL WHEELCHAIR and boned your wife six ways to Sunday bloody Sunday. Your son is a fucking genius for his age. Hell, he's smart for twenty-one, at least, twenty-one in Ohio! I could barely add and subtract in third fucking grade, and they still passed me (of course, I was reading on a ninth grade level, but still). You know your son best; don't let him get jaded like so many of us nerds are due to the soul-crushing beauracracy that is standardized Western education. Foster his love of learning fiercely, even if you have to suppliment his curriculum on the weekends.
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Re: Grades, Marks and Report Cards

Postby sunkistbabe1 » Thu Dec 27, 2007 6:12 am UTC

Mighty Jalapeno wrote:If I got a B, I would be forced to sit down and have a talk with my parents (or rather, my father and my step-mom) about why I chose to get such a low grade when I was capable of getting an A. Looking back, I often think that I got low marks now and then just to piss them off.


Just wanted to toss in here that I got sent to a shrink in high school by these same people because I got a C- on a single small test in Physics that I did not study for, and happened to miss the class that dealt with the majority of material on this test because I was sick.


Nonetheless, there must have been something seriously mentally wrong with me I suppose...
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Re: Grades, Marks and Report Cards

Postby Mighty Jalapeno » Thu Dec 27, 2007 6:19 am UTC

Well, yeah. You weren't dumb, so that just left crazy, right?

Right?
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Re: Grades, Marks and Report Cards

Postby sunkistbabe1 » Thu Dec 27, 2007 6:32 am UTC

Mighty Jalapeno wrote:Well, yeah. You weren't dumb, so that just left crazy, right?

Right?


I think it was the step-mom's decision... mostly. She never had her own kids and read some self help parenting books, and child psychology books, so she assumed she knew what she was doing. You should have seen the look she gave me on this grade I got in college... it was a B... it was almost the same look I got before I was sent to see the nice doctor. shudder

But, hubby and I have a lot of the same feelings about school as MJ there. We're definitely not relying entirely on the school system to educate our children. Especially in the smaller town we're in, which has like 3x the Pro-D or Inservice days because they cannot afford to pay teachers for a full school year, and they are not allowed to just shorten the year, because the teacher's contract says they HAVE to work to the end of June. So students get like 3 weeks at Christmas, 2 weeks at Easter, then a week for spring break, then mounds of days off in between.

We're contemplating moving to the town MJ is in before our children hit grade school just to have more choices. Our oldest is in preschool, but we do not get anything like grades or official progress reports. The teacher lets us know if she acts out or plays well, and so far she loooooooves school and is doing great. As she gets older we will be supplementing her schooling with our own bits of homeschooling... or this Unschooling, that sounds like a good idea.
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Re: Grades, Marks and Report Cards

Postby Diceman » Thu Dec 27, 2007 6:46 am UTC

Homeschooling isn't always to "shelter" the kids... My parents took me out of first grade because I was causing trouble by knowing everything they were teaching and shouting answers. I also would go exploring into places I shouldn't have been (like the boiler room). I was so bored with Northern Vermont elementary school that I was literally making trouble so I could sit in the office and read more interesting material that they had lying around.

I still stayed involved with the school though. I was in the band, and I played some of the sports the school offered. But the reading/writing/math/science/history side of things was handled at home. We made sugar cube pyramids and scale models of the Nile when studying Egypt, teepee's and leather when studying Native Americans, we even practiced jousting on our horses when we covered Knights during the Middle Ages. Often, my Mom would integrate the boring stuff (like writing) into the other studies, so that little time was wasted on meaningless repetition. My only wish is that she had made us used to memorizing stupid things just for the sake of memorizing them.

On my own, I read science books about electricity, chemistry, nature, technology and tons of other topics just because I thought it was cool.

Looking back on it, whenever I tried to talk to people at school, they were all totally clueless about what I was talking about, and ended up avoiding me for the most part. The only other people I could talk to were other homeschoolers, who I hung out with 3 or 4 times a week.

I don't know what the point of all that was... I guess I just get defensive when people say negative things about homeschooling. That was just my experience, and I wouldn't trade it for the world.

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Re: Grades, Marks and Report Cards

Postby Mighty Jalapeno » Thu Dec 27, 2007 6:49 am UTC

Yeah, said step-mom keeps buying us parenting books (which is awesome, because sunkist there gets sent the same ones, and we sort of laugh about it). Last year, they sent us up a batch of kids books from when I was young, and the one on top was about coping with divorce. There were also some parenting books tucked into the boxes of kids books.

Also, yay! Move to the Loops, it'll be sweet, especially if you live in our neighborhood (and as rich as you programmer-types are, you'll probably only be able to afford around here).

On my own, I read science books about electricity, chemistry, nature, technology and tons of other topics just because I thought it was cool. Looking back on it, whenever I tried to talk to people at school, they were all totally clueless about what I was talking about, and ended up avoiding me for the most part. The only other people I could talk to were other homeschoolers, who I hung out with 3 or 4 times a week.


Also, Diceman, I was like that, but I am happy I was left in school. To be fair, though, I met someone just like me in school, and when he stopped beating me up, we were great friends.
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